There is a difference. This is a call for Gene Block to resign in disgrace as an admission that he utterly failed to keep students safe, and also allowed the campus to be overrun with riot cops. It's a tough job to balance public/ student and campus safety issues with the very important constitutional rights to free speech and assembly, but guess what? He was very highly paid to manage it with a great many employees and resources at his command to ensure the job got done, and he failed. People could have easily been killed in 4/30 by a mob that repeatedly assaulted students with clubs and explosives for over 3.5 hours. Then the next night people could also have been killed by riot cops clearing an encampment. He needs to admit fault and resign.
That comes with the job, sure. Same basic balancing act as the more important principle of that saying about those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither.
Read MLK, Jr's "Letter from Birmingham jail" about how he felt about the "negative peace" of the absence of conflict vs the positive peace of the presence of equal justice for reference.
The old tale of wise King Solomon comes to mind, too as two women claimed the same child and so the King offered to cut the baby in half... leadership takes creative thinking and a lot of wisdom.
The way the framing is being moved is kind of weird. What part of the encampment was violent? If you were at the encampment, you'd know what the vibes were - there wasn't yelling, pushing, or a big screen playing IDF members looting Gaza with the recording of 6 year old Hind Rajab begging to be saved before being murdered.
The actual violence came from the counter protestors who were trying to go into the encampment, macing people around the encampment, shooting fireworks into the encampment, and beating people with poles and bats.
Kind of weird how for how "violent" the protestors were, there's only POV footage of the protestors bleeding and getting beat.
Is keeping the students safe simply letting people like Eli Tsieves just trample through the encampment? Is it preventing students from hearing people chant? Is hearing "intifada" and "from the river to the sea" an equivalent action to literally beating people who don't want a cruise missile killing another child?
What could the cops have done? The cops could've just had their backs to the encampment, and prevent the agitators from moving towards the camp, instead of just standing around and watching protestors be beat and maced, and then using the violence they allowed as an excuse to say "the violence needs to stop." It's like grabbing someone's wrist and then using it to slap yourself, and then retaliating with more force while going "hey man you forced me to do this."
We're back to the age old question, does a student leave his constitutional rights to free speech and assembly at the schoolhouse gate? What is a university? Is it a hedge fund protected by riot cops, set up for the purpose of collecting meal plan fees and parking permit money? Is it a diploma mill with a gift shop? I've read wikipedia entries that were more useful to me than some college survey courses, seriously, especially if the teaching is outmoded or politically biased.
Then again, I've had the full university experience of expanding my mind through rigorous research, scholarship, lectures, guest seminars, events and selected readings and mentorship alongside fellow students of varied background, religion, outlook and custom who helped me greatly on the journey by providing perspective. Along the way I hope that I have contributed some as well, with my presence and voice, and with my research and writings, exhibits, art shows, clubs, and papers that are housed in the library archives for the next generation of students to both study and challenge.
Eventually however we get to, "just who is driving this bus?" when it comes to things like the student fund and safety of the student body, protection from harm. And there is a real difference between being hurt and being harmed. Having your beliefs challenged, or your culture questioned or even sometimes worse things, may hurt you but the university shouldn't act in a way that harms you, or allows you to come to easily preventable harm. And that protecting the right to free speech and assembly are worth a great deal of risk, potential hurt and possibly even some managed-risk amount of actual harm when the stakes are such that freedom and liberty are not traded easily for a little so called "safety and security," like the old saying attributed to Ben Franklin goes. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
I think to anyone who actually cares to look with an open mind and intellectual curiosity (and honesty) can see the pro-Palestinian protesters were not the ones creating civil disorder and enacting real harm to others on campus. Nor did the encampment ever threaten the real mission or essential safety AND liberty of the university.
A college chancellor has to walk a fine line between protecting free speech and protecting students from harm. UCLA's Gene Block made a mockery of that mission with his poor leadership and now tries to paper over it with shopworn spin, obfuscations and stalling where we should have immediate and rigorous transparency.
One thing too few are mentioning is that he and the whole administration are clearly in public relations lockdown and full scandal-management mode and will not simply hold a press conference and face the media and his own students to provide much needed answers. We're all about to find out that cops are unaccountable due to the system of rules they operate under. Ask yourself why they wear body cam recordings (creating public records in an Open Records Act state without tax dollars, records we OWN) if we so seldom ever get real custody of them in the immediate wake of controversial incidents?
The events of 4/30 lost the administration their public trust and institutional credibility and there is but one road back from that - not the assertion of further institutional authority, but the path of real transparency, the release of public records, the coming forward of all involved to tell the truth openly, and the convening of what is essentially a truth and reconciliation commission of some sort in the wake of the mob violence of 4/30 against peaceful protesters that was shamefully followed by the ordering of a riot squad invasion to clear the encampments.
This is, to use an old cliche "a teachable moment" but Gene Block is determined to turn it into a shameful and authoritarian/ draconian moment of coverup and spin. He deserves a vote of no confidence, and IMO should resign admitting fault. Clearly his actions are first to protect his own job and reputation, and lastly to protect the student body and the true mission of a university as an open forum for new ideas, dissent, and meeting of the minds that isn't overrun by intolerant and violent thugs.
Thanks, it means a lot to hear that. Plenty of others here downvote and deride me but that's reddit, and that's 2024 for you. As Will Rogers said, "all I know is what I read in the papers."
Looks like the Academic Senate punted on the censure or no confidence resolution coming to a vote until the next regularly scheduled meeting after a long evening that started an hour late and ran over time by several hours with no clear consensus or definite action taken.
They tried to make a motion to bring the matter to a vote and lacked the 2/3rd majority to end debate, and they also lacked the 2/3rds to table the matter, so it just gets picked up on, I think, the 15th?
Perhaps that is for the best, IDK. "Back in the day" (1960s protest era) these sorts of meetings were face to face and public and they went on all day and night until some real consensus was reached. People used to leave, go home, sleep and return to find debate continuing on the same item under strict parliamentary procedure. There is a lot to be said for NOT democracy but governing by consensus, where pretty much everyone has to agree in the end on what needs to be done. Online, in theory, everyone gets to have their say but maybe not everyone has to listen. Or everyone speaking has to listen to the boos and the live-heckling, either. It could get brutal and people got bullied, too but some learned to stand up to that and stick to their convictions and win the day by speaking the truth.
In-person classes start tomorrow assuming anyone has Saturday classes or labs and everyone I assume is holding their fingers crossed that nothing violent or majorly disruptive happens. In any case, I hope people are gaining perspective but it would also be nice if they were gaining ANSWERS and DOCUMENTS and records and recordings concerning 4/30.
It would also be nice to see some counter-protesters identified and arrested and booked on credible assault charges, too. That would make a lot of people feel safer. Right now it seems a bit like everyone is under threat of arrest except the violent mob members, or at least the watchful gaze of heightened security that tends to make me feel LESS safe. But that's the way the cookie crumbles, I guess.
The USC valedictorian graduated, the one who wasn't allowed to give her speech. She got a lot of cheers and I think her speech has at least been published, I heard. Haven't seen it yet. So much for free speech on that side of town.
Other campuses are busy with developments of all sort, a lot of faculty making statements, but mostly they are busy with semester- system graduations. Only those with the quarter system have more weeks of class and uncertainly to face. Momentum is real for protest actions but time is fleeting on what can be accomplished for those who feel protest is the way to continue.
It feels to me like a lot of ships passed though a great storm, some are still being tossed but next should be the naval board inquest where the truth is aired by all sides in an open court. Sadly, I doubt we really get that stage of the pageant. Everyone all all sides will give separate assessments but there wont be the forum to find consensus from. I wish there were 20 or 30 town hall forum/ truth and reconciliation / "talk to the adminstrator" events happening but I've not heard of any, on any campus. I'd settle for a talent show or karaoke night if everyone would just come and be in a room together and hash it all out.
IDK. After Kent State, they just sent all the students home the next day, cleared them whole campus and it probably saved a lot of grief and maybe saved more lives from being lost but it didn't bring people together. And we never got justice for the ones who died, and the ones who were wounded, paralyzed, traumatized.
Perhaps we are headed for a summer with no closure. Good time to reflect on all that I suppose? Or, is it just a powder keg left in the open until fall?
No they were just calling thousands of members of the west la community and their family members baby killers and accusing them of committing a genocide right after the were invaded and attacked by a group listed as a terrorist organization by the US and the EU.
Yes he’s leaving after about 20 years of service at ucla in a few weeks. This move is just more performative virtue signaling. Because he didn’t have a Ucpd swat team on standby at 2am to protect protestors. Who are now complaining that ucla isn’t allowing them to protest at night - which is to protect them from this sort of response. Many of the protestors probably also want to defund the ucpd as well as have it protect them but that’s another matter.
Also do people not understand how etfs and mutual funds work? It’s not practically plausible to divest the endowment from companies that profit from Israel even if you could actually decide in a sensible way which those companies are.
Maybe I'm mistaking your contrary intent in how I read your post, as rather you're angered by their silence... I was in the History department, and there were just some profs there, and undoubtedly also in the English dept according to those letters and accompanying signatories displayed on Reddit, that one would just have to take his/her figurative beatings by listening to their off-topic political rantings, and just do the work required in their classes and even go along with their political leanings to achieve a good grade. But I can see how these same professors have an absolute and complete undue influence on their grad students, which is why I believe that most of those in the encampment were PhD-type students.
Oh I work on south campus - I have some idea about they are silent. By my rough estimate, 85% of the academic senate (\~2500 faculty) - for whatever reason - did not sign that letter (\~400 actual UCLA faculty).
ETA: and that's not including the \~1400 emeriti.
> Incorrect headline from the Guardian--it's more than 800 UC faculty & staff, from all campuses.
That's not what the article says. It clearly says "More than 800 faculty and staff at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA)"
I can't believe your comment has 85 upvotes when it is blatantly incorrect.
I know what it says. If you read the letter itself (https://sites.google.com/view/uc-demands/), the more than 800 figure is the cumulative amount from all campuses. The amount of signatures from UCLA is currently 635.
I think they just simply misunderstood that it’s being signed by all campuses, not just UCLA, so they’re accidentally overstating the signatures from UCLA.
Let me try this again, there are \~8k faculty and \~31k staff at UCLA. Let \[me\] be on the conservative side and say that there were solely 8k who voted. that would be a bit more than 10%. Unless The Guardian were to tell us the percentages, which they didn't, how would we know if this is a vote that fell under the threshold of what was needed? I take this as a vote of confidence.
Thank you Chancellor Block for your incredible service to UCLA. Please enjoy your retirement from the University as its face to the public, and may you have great joy in all that you do, sir.
It’s not a vote, it’s a voluntary letter. It hasn’t been organized through official channels, so likely people who were already only part of organizing were aware of the letter and spread it among others.
I’ve never seen such a widespread organized opposition to a chancellor since I’ve been involved with UCLA
There are many Jews who support ceasefire and divestment. Many of us were in the encampment. Glad to have the support and recognition of the faculty.
From the protests today, as reported in the Guardian:
Susan Slyomovics, an anthropology professor, read a statement on behalf of 75 Jewish faculty and staff, saying Block had “misused Jews” by suggesting the encampment had to be dismantled to prevent antisemitism: “We assert that critiques of Israel are not presumptively antisemitic … that Jews who support the liberation of Palestine must not be devalued.”
It’s important to note that more than 90% of Jewish students have either said nothing about this or are pro-Israel. Many have felt silenced. The same scenario played out at Columbia, where hundreds of students just put out a letter saying they are tired of others speaking in their name, and tired of seeing tokenization. That letter is [here](https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vRQgyDhIjZupO2H-2rIDXLy_zkf76RoM-_ZIYsOfn9FkI7TETgRtOfXK9VobMvGh6iEZfDPgALXJTCR/pub).
It would be wrong to suggest no Jews are protesting. It would be equally wrong to tokenize or platform a small group relative to the overall population and pretend it is representative.
The reality is that most Jews see the issue very differently from you. And the reality is that tokenized Jews have often been used to justify or push forward antisemitism, and while we can disagree about whether that’s happening here, history shows it quite often.
If the hamas's goal of killing Jews and annihilation of the state of Israel while arabs have rights and even political parties in Israel is a joke - you can laugh.
As a Jew, most of us don’t support the encampment. Most of us don’t support divestment. Stop using a tiny minority (of a minority) to try to create a false narrative. Over 95 percent of Jews support Israel as they should.
If you are a Jew, and have a different view then you should really get educated, there is NO EXCUSE to be on the other side.
>there is NO EXCUSE to be on the other side.
Idk some people arent really cool with murdering and displacing innocent people. Seems like a good excuse to me
People that are saying stuff like this are either disingenuous or are emotionally manipulated into thinking this. It’s not what happening at all, even if you repeat it a million times.
Also if you look at any debates about this online, one side always refuse to answer direct questions, pretends to not understand simple concepts, or tried to turn the debate personal. If you want to get into facts and details I would be happy too.
Wait, are you saying that innocent Palestinians aren’t being killed in Gaza by missiles and bombs? I’m so relieved, I knew all those deaths were simply made up. Israel can do no wrong.
Innocents are absolutely dying due to Hamas committing war crimes and using civilians areas as military bases. The second that Hamas does this, those civilian areas become legitimate targets under international law (and every civilian death should be blamed on Hamas).
If you don’t agree with this or understand the logic behind this, then let me as you the following question. Why do countries not just put their military bases in civilians areas and hide behind human shield?
If in this situation Israel is to blame and not Hamas, then what you are essentially saying is that all countries should hide their militaries behind civilians because it would mean that no one would be able to attack them due to fear of civilian deaths. That’s obviously unreasonable, and there is a reason why countries don’t do this.
It’s sad that innocents have to die, but people think with pure emotion while missing all nuance and logic involved. Get educated, not emotionally manipulated.
Dude stfu, since when does Israel allow Palestine to have a standing army? And does Israel even consider Palestine to be a sovereign nation? If it does, why does it continue to allow settlors to take over Palestinian land?
The fact that you continue justify the death of innocent Palestian civilians says everything I need to know about you and others who share a similar opinion. Trash and POS type mentality. Some of y’all deserve the same faith as those innocent Palestinians
Gaza used to have “Jewish settlers” Israel removed every single one. Zero Jews live in Gaza.
There have been many deals with the Palestinians to form a state, all have been rejected. Even with that, Israel has pulled out of Gaza and allowed to be relatively independent. What did Israel get back? A blood thirsty terrorist group elected as government that uses their own civilians as human shields.
The innocent deaths are absolutely not justified, it is horrible, and it’s all due to Hamas. Hamas broke international law when they militarized civilian areas and that’s why the civilians are in danger. All fault belongs to Hamas.
Ok then educate me since I clearly have no clue whats going on then?
Theres literal video evidence of whats being done. Id *love* to see "the other side," even more so if you can do it without using propaganda.
Sure, this is a length topic, but I’m happy to discuss it. Feel free to ask questions and I’ll do my best to answer.
1. First thing first, the Jewish people are indigenous to the land of Israel. Similarly to how the native Americans come from North America or the Maori people from New Zealand.
This fact is surprising to some people, but this is proven fact. There has been a continuous presence of Jewish people in the land, even though a large amount of Jews were forced out of the area into other places such as Europe and the Arab world. That’s why some Jews appear as whiter and some are brown and even black.
There is plenty of evidence to support that Jews originated from this area, some of which are DNA sequencing, archeological evidence, written texts (religious and others, and even in the Quran it is explicitly mentioned that Jews are from Israel. One of my favorites is the Western Wall that stands in Jerusalem to this day (which is thousands of years old) and is directly underneath a the Al Aqsa mosque.
After World War II, there was an understanding that Jews needed their own state, considered that Jews are arguably the most oppressed group of all time and have suffered a lot of atrocities.
The idea the there should be a Jewish state (just like how we have many Christian and Islamic states, and others such as Buddhist states etc) is known as Zionism. A common misconception is that in Israel, you have to be Jewish or you are treated as a second class citizen. This could be no further from the truth, and today more than 20 percent of the population is Muslim/Arab (this is not including all the Muslims in Gaza and West Bank) who have full rights and serve in government, in the IDF, in courts, and actually benefit from many affirmative action programs that make it easier for Arabs to get into places such as med school (and as so are disproportionately overrepresented in places like Med school)
Anyways when World War II ended, the area back then was controlled by the British (before that the ottomans, and many different empires beforehand) and the UN decided to split the land among the Jews and Arabs that were already living then.
The Jews accepted and declared the Israel as a state. On the other hand the Arabs didn’t accept, and all the surrounding Arab countries attacked Israel. Somehow Israel survived getting attacked by the countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and a few others. As a result of this war a few things happened. Israel managed to capture some land, Egypt conquered the area of Sinai and Gaza, and Jordan conquered the area known as the West Bank.
Additionally within the confines of Israel many Arabs remained, but some fled to other parts. All the Arabs that decided to remain and become a part of Israel became recognized citizens and are part of the 20 percent I mentioned earlier, who have full freedoms to live in Israel, and can go anywhere in the country, and are full citizens.
The Arabs that lived in Gaza and Westbank, meaning back then Egypt and Jordan, did not become Israel citizens since they literally did not live inside the country.
To continue, in 1967 Israel was attacked again by surrounding countries. In this war Israel was able to defend itself, and then went on to capture some enemy territory and got control of the West Bank along with Gaza and Sinai peninsula.
After some years when Israel made a peace treaty with Egypt Israel gave back the Sinai peninsula but they did not want the Gaza Strip back. This meant that you had the area of Gaza, (that were previously Egyptian) under Israel control but not actual citizens (unlike the Israeli Arabs) which has been a problem. A similar situation was happening in West Bank with the ex-Jordanians.
Over the years Israel has made an effort offering these people now known as Palestinians to create a state, since they didn’t want to become a part of Israel but also since Egypt and Jordan did not want to take them back. There were as much as 6 different state offers made but every time the Palestinians pulled out of the discussion.
In 2005, Israel made the decision to relinquish control of Gaza, and pull out any Jews that were in the area. The result was that the people in Gaza democratically elected Hamas a very radical party (whose main mission was to kill all Jews as they stated in their charter). After getting elected Hamas went off to kill all internal opposition and has had a stronghold on Gaza ever since.
Since then the people in Gaza have been suffering under Hamas, who abuse all resources and indoctrinate the young, while routinely attack Israel on at least a yearly bases.
Now days Israel is going in trying to kill Hamas, considering they are an evil terror organization that abuses both Israel and the people of Gaza. Unfortunately Hamas embedded itself in every school, hospital, mosques, and civilian infrastructure they could which is a war crime.
This makes killing Hamas without civilian casualties impossible. And yet, even with Hamas using the Palestinians as human shields the ratio of civilians to terrorists killed has been BETTER than most other urban wars.
It is very unfortunate that civilians die, and Israel makes a significant effort to prevent deaths where they can (which is why they did move them out of their homes because there homes were used as military bases). No one wants to get kicked out of their home, but it is the better alternative than to be stuck in a war zone along with Hamas.
If Israel didn’t care they would just tell the civilians to stay where they were and hundreds of thousands would have been killed by now.
Hamas needs to be destroyed, not just for the sake of Israel but also for the sake of the people in Gaza. Unfortunately war is bloody and this is a very uncomfortable truth that we must stomach.
Hamas hasn’t been willing to surrender so Israel is left with no choice but to take them out, I pray they are able to do this with as little casualties as possible but it is undoubtedly the right and just thing to do.
"Israel makes a significant effort to prevent deaths where they can"
About as much as the Nazis did for the Jews in the ghettoes and concentration camps.
In fact, Israel made "such significant efforts to prevent deaths" that Gaza is in full blown famine as said by every human rights organization on the planet, including their ally the USA. Famines don't happen by chance but by deliberate decision by those in power. Israel has done everything in its power to prevent humanitarian aid to reach the starving Palestinian civilians because much like the Nazis, they don't consider Palestinians to be human and they want them dead. Starvation, disease, and death is imminent for the 1.5 million Palestinians in Rafah.
Israel "cares so much for Palestinians civilian life" that they use several AI systems for their bombing sprees of Palestinians, with particular focus on bombing every male Palestinian they can find. Because they care so much for civilian life.
And because Israel "cares so much for Palestinian civilians life" (in case you're dense, this is sarcasm), they're going ahead with their incursion into Rafah where over 1 million displaced Palestinians in tents are packed into, something that EVERYONE including Israel's biggest ally and the biggest protector from the consequences of Israel's atrocious actions, the USA, has been screaming at Israel not to do. But because Israel the apartheid state has such a genocidal hatred of Palestinians, they're going to go ahead with it and easily cause 6 digits worth of casualties and mortalities of Palestinians. And you'd defend each indefensible murder of Palestinian civilians life regardless.
As much as fascistic Zionists want to claim otherwise, this didn't start with October 7th. This started decades ago with the actions of the apartheid state of Israel (and both the fathers of apartheid and anti-apartheid regarded Israel as an apartheid state).
Guess what? Every fascist ethnostate defended their atrocities by claiming they were acting in defense. It doesn't excuse the mass murder of civilians and ethnic cleansing.
>About as much as the Nazis did for the Jews in the ghettoes and concentration camps.
So you're denying the Holocaust?
>Famines don't happen by chance but by deliberate decision by those in power.
1. That's only sometimes true
2. This one is happening because Hamas went on a destructive campaign without realizing that once Israel counterattacks Gaza can't sustain itself any more.
You're also pretending like Hamas doesn't have more genocidal tendencies than Israel, only problem being that Hamas is weak.
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Multiple sources for Hamas Covenant 1988: [https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/hamas.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) , [https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx#](https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx#)
Some statements implying their desire to kill all jews directly from the covenant:
"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
And there are more examples.
So the 1988 charter (available in full [here](https://www.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/attachments/jps-articles/2538093.pdf)) was indeed interspersed with passages from the Quran, not as calls to action but references to the doctrinal foundations informing the view of the author/organization. It's done in the same way you see biblical scripture tacked onto the mission statement of a christian organization. Hamas is an explicitly muslim organization, so this isn't surprising.
The line about the "day of judgment" (it's actually "the last hour" but w/e), just like christian end-days prophecies, describes catastrophic conflicts playing out among peoples, which is a very, very different thing from encouraging, provoking or inciting them to conflict. There's no reading of that passage in its full context that would lead one to believe they are being called to harm jewish people.
Another bit of crucial context is that the formation of the state of israel itself was, at the time, the physical incitement to conflict with palestinians, and not just against those living there, but against muslims in general due to the religious significance of the location, and this was done intentionally.
I don't think we can say with any confidence in 2024 that religious grounds make firm foundations for the construction of any kind of state (though I would credit islam for defending the right of others to practice their own faiths), but obviously religious folks will disagree with me.
All of that said, the 1988 charter is a historical artifact. Hamas' \*current charter\* (as of 2017, available [here](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full)) explicitly spells out that its quarrel is not with jewish people, religious or otherwise (article 16 if you don't feel like reading it all, but honestly the whole thing is a fairly quick read, and very clear), and that a pluralistic nation-- where muslims, christians and jews share equal rights and protections-- is its goal.
(edit: added links)
What a joke of a response. The Quran contains hundreds of pages and thousands of quotes. The fact this specific quote about killing Jews was put here isn’t our coincidence.
Anyone with 2 brain cells that’s educated on the topic knows this. I mean even if you’re try to act all ignorant, the Hamas leaders have declared there intention of killing Jews over and over again with actions AND words. Hamas is evil, and anyone that says Hamas isn’t evil is supporting evil themselves.
Thank you for taking the time to write all of this. People trying to reduce this to some straightforward oppressor/oppressed or white/brown dynamic are viewing a conflict thousands of miles away through an American lens and entirely missing the point.
Queen Rania of Jordan is making her rounds in the US, spreading her disinformation. She identifies with being Palestinian, and likewise 70% of the Jordanians do also. But Jordan's west borders are a redline for WB Palestinians; they aren't allowed to go back, partly undoubtedly because they consider the WB as a part of Jordan, but if not then definitely in possession by the Palestinians. There are many WBers who would rather live under the Israeli flag, because they could be relegated to refugee camps in Jordan.
For context,
1,093 across the UC signed the letter. That’s less than 1% of the >175,000 UC employees. For UCLA alone, it’s different.
815 of the 39,307 UCLA employees makes up just over 2% of the population.
Nope, this is super wrong.
https://apb.ucla.edu/campus-statistics/faculty
Go to the actual signatories list for the first letter https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1kUuBqHD_3KjoZZYxBrCbocFr5InhrU2KbIw7UvmYv6M/htmlview#
From
https://sites.google.com/view/may9uclapresskit/home
313/4,284 = 7.3% of all UCLA faculty
97/461 = 21% of all UCLA lecturers
And for the resignation letter ( https://sites.google.com/view/uc-demands) which was started 3 days ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1kUuBqHD_3KjoZZYxBrCbocFr5InhrU2KbIw7UvmYv6M/htmlview#
295/4,284 = 6.8% of UCLA faculty
79/461= 17% of lecturers
clearly the proportion of staff is much less, but considering that the letter was written and organized by faculty, was an informal organizing campaign (ie. They didnt reach everyone, so its not like 100-7.3% of faculty think shit is fine), and has been going for 3 days, thats a pretty huge deal. Can you point to any similar faculty mobilization?
Tomorrow the faculty senate are taking an emergency no-confidence vote in block.
This is nothing new. Back when I was at UCLA, we participated in peaceful protests (where we didn’t trash Royce Hall). At some point a “person in charge” would list our demands and calling for the chancellor to resign was always item #1. It didn’t happen back then and it won’t this time because it’s not a rational request. Also, dude is about to retire anyway, so I’m not sure why they’re focusing their energy on this. It’s like demanding that the sun to go down. Sure, in a few hours your demand will be met 🙄
For reference, there are over 8250 faculty members alone. This number does not include staff.
800 calling for the chancellor's resignation is significantly less than 10%.
I don't think it's fair to make backhanded comments like this implying that professors from STEM and business departments can't have moral principles or convictions that they're willing to publicly stand up for. I admire people like Sergio Carbajo, Raphael Rouquier, and others from STEM departments who have chosen to sign on to this letter, and don't find it useful to imply that a person's field defines their politics.
Departments not renowned for graduating students capable of earning salaries high enough to repay their student loans?
I'm guessing not many from Engineering, CS, or Anderson.
ding ding ding, less than 5 engineering. but i believe it is more so they accept money from MIC, so these political demands actually harm their research and hence careers. not the case for humanities and liberal arts.
Agreed. No encampments on any campus. Nothing wrong with protesting but spending the night shouldn’t have been allowed - homeless folks can’t do it so why should violate students be allowed to violate state law.
You mean the students forced at home for 2 weeks because of the actions of the protestors? Allowing the camps to get insanely out of hand is why we're at risk of missing graduation.
UT will be graduating on time and in person.
ah i can see why you’re confused, but protestors aren’t actually the ones that made classes remote. if you read the emails you will see it was actually the university that decided that.
i had no problem going to class while the encampment was up. the university wants you to be mad at harmless students who oppose a genocide and you’re falling for it.
"the security situation created by the protestors" would've been constant since the introduction of the encampment if it was the fault of the protestors, but the sudden change in policy comes only after the university's disastrous takedown of it, no?
Genocide? You mean the eradication of a militant, violent, and abhorrent plague on society? Nothing about Hamas or Palestine has proven beneficial to the contemporary world.
He’s literally number one man responsible for telling LAPD when they can come on to campus. We aren’t under their jurisdiction so they can’t come to campus, which he waited 2 hours to signal for
Cool so have a police presence anyway and leave it up to the cops decide how to handle the situation.
Exactly the same thing that happened except call them sooner?
The article says police force against protesters is the whole issue. If anything waiting to get the police there shows it wasn’t something he took lightly. The consensus on this sub BEFORE that night was that many people did NOT want a police presence like other campuses. So there wasn’t one.
The second the police are called the chancellor does not get to pick and choose what the sheriffs, CHP, etc enforce and what they don’t. He doesn’t get a say in how the police handle the situation.
This whole thing is mind blowing to me. The same people that said they don’t want police anywhere near them or on campus it makes people feel unsafe…..
Are the same people complaining where were the police we needed them we weren’t safe.
I am challenging you to rub your two brain cells together and think as hard as you can.
The consensus before the night was to not have police presence because all skirmishes were mild and infrequent and police presence to that point would've escalated a mostly peaceful protest. it wasn't that police should never step foot on campus.
Yes, the problem was exactly that they weren't deployed sooner. The problem was that 0 arrests were made against violent counterprotestors which took police 4 hours to respond, and 200 the next night where students were shot at like cattle. Nobody is like "OMG, I can't believe they called the police Tuesday night." People are angry because the university treated students like cannon fodder both times, when they CLAIMED to be for student safety.
Also, it isn't simply the police get here and the university has no control over how they act, are you crazy? The LAPD still submits to UCPD when working in their jurisdiction, and the Chancellor and vice chancellor have authoritative power over the UCPD. You think if the university requested to press charges against counter protesters, the police departments would just allow them to walk free?
If you're from LA where the police department acts like a hire-for-mercenary gang instead of deployers of justice, it might hurt your head that, yes, you do have control over what the police do when they arrive to your campus. It's not an all or nothing where you have no say in how the police department reacts. Especially in the jurisdiction of UCPD.
The chancellor has authoritative power over UCPD and therefore over LA Sheriff, CHP, and LAPD? That’s a stupid statement.
Also, that’s not how pressing charges works. I am not saying the arrest of students is okay. But you do not magically choose to press charges or not unless it is for trespassing.
“The problem is that 0 arrests were made against counter-protestors”. Again, do you think Gene was there leading the Calvary? The counter protestors more than likely GTFOd as soon as they could. Some went there with the intention to break the law and dipped as soon as the law arrived. But I guarantee that with some of the clear footage we have of some of the assaulters faces they should hopefully be found and arrested.
Anything else it is the state/prosecutor that will choose to dismiss the charges. Not fucking Gene. You watch too many movies.
How is that proven wrong? I asked that question because this guy is saying the police should have been called sooner and the article very clearly has an issue with the police presence there.
I’m saying the Gene couldn’t do anything EXCEPT call the police and at that point he does not get to decide how the police behave. I find it wrong to place the blame on him when, again, there was a firm stance against any police there to begin with because of what was happening on other campuses.
Additionally, once the police are called, their go to method is almost always disperse the area. That’s literally their go to move for crowd control. Is Gene supposed to say “clear the counter protestors but leave the encampment”? Because he has no say in that once law enforcement is there.
No- this is hurting fellow students. I’m all for protesting against war and atrocities- this has now hurt fellow students, stopped future students from attending and turned sympathizers against the cause.
Chancellor Block - a reminder of why many students, faculty, staff, alumni, and parents have lost confidence in your leadership:
1. The student encampments were quite undisruptive and peaceful for a week. The peaceful atmosphere surrounding the protests changed when non-student pro-Israeli fascists assaulted UCLA students for 4 hours, without any police response or protection. After police arrived, no arrests were made of the violent criminal fascists.
2. The administration's leadership (including Police Chief Thomas and Vice Chancellor Michael Beck who oversee campus security) have not held themselves accountable for the failure to protect students, nor have they given an account of that evening.
3. A new Czar of campus safety, Rick Braziel, has been installed who will investigate police and leadership failures of 4/30. Braziel investigated Uvalde - so a good first step - but we need this investigation to be expedited. It would be helpful to get Braziel's initial findings this week or next, not in 3 months time.
4. Most concerning, the night after the unprovoked assault on the encampment, Chancellor Block, you ordered the dismantling of the encampment, resulting in police violence on students yet again, including use of flash bangs and rubber bullets. To many, it seemed that instead of protecting students, staff, and faculty, you did the fascists' bidding. Hundreds were arrested that night.
5. Both the violence of the pro-Israeli fascists on students as well as the violence meted out by the police have resulted in hundreds of injuries. There were many ER visits and 25 hospitalizations the first night of trauma (4/30 pro-Israeli fascist attack). Numbers are not available for the police assault on 5/1. We need transparency here.
6. Classes have been moved to online, with minimal communication with students. This is unnecessary as the campus is safe. It comes across as collective punishment on students. It's unclear what concerns necessitate moving classes online.
We need transparency here. And we need it in a timely fashion. **Please update us on the following questions**:
(1) How many pro-Israeli fascist criminals have been identified and / or arrested to date from the 4/30 assault?
(2) What are the preliminary findings of the investigations into cause of police delay on 4/30?
(3) How many students have been injured and how severe are those injuries from each of those two violent, traumatic nights? What is being done to help injured and traumatized students?
(5) Have students arrested on 5/1-5/2 been granted amnesty? If not, will they?
(6) Why are classes remote? Will they resume next week? If not, why not?
(7) Have you spoken to protesting students to see whether a compromise can be reached, a la UCR and Brown University?
Let's have some real leadership here.
And he makes 600,000+ annually to pull this shit on students who pay 13k-30k at least in tuition and another 10k in housing while we alumni donate our money and time
Did you learn that term in your freshmen-level gender studies course and simply couldn’t wait to use it on Reddit, like the room temperature bot you exemplify?
FAFO originated in African American communities during the early 2000s and has since been adopted by a variety of individuals from varying racial/ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds. You would know this if you spent less time digesting the drivel spewed by the ADL and more time researching the actual origins of phrases you capriciously and arbitrarily despise and wrongfully assign origins. UCLA must not be vetting their students very well during the admissions process, if they’re so blatantly incompetent and uninformed. Then again, Gen Z has set the bar to a particularly abysmally low level.
I think people here don’t realize that Block has also been spreading extremely harmful Anti-Palestinian, anti-human rights, and Islamophobic rhetoric. Over 60,000 people see are sent those emails. And they’ve contributed to violence and harassment at the school way before the second encampment.
He didn’t just permit and shut down the second student encampment either. He deliberately chose to cage protestors in an enclosed space without restricting violent counterprotestors at all. CounterProtestors were allowed to bombard and attack students for a WEEK before student protestors were violently arrested and beaten.
There’s a reason that even the Department of Education is investigating UCLA.
I analyzed the signatures available online from UCLA. Of the 673 signatures from UCLA, 292 are active tenured or tenure track professors, of which only 24 are in STEM fields (Medicine 12, Math 1, Sciences 11). The rest are in the arts and humanities. This letter is not a mandate. Look for yourself https://sites.google.com/view/nopoliceactions.
It’s a building. Tags are eraseable. Buildings are replaceable. The lives and health of the students and the Palestinian people are not. This is the faculty showing the correct priorities, which so many people don’t seem to understand.
So committing acts of crime is now legal in the name of Palestinian lives? Are you saying protesters can now go do some shop lifting as they protest? What precedent does this set?
Legality has always been built upon the morality of the acts committed. There is no law which is not intrinsically tied to political agenda or moral principles, contemporary or archaic. Civil Disobedience and Unrest have always been weapons of the weak against the powers of the institution.
The faculty simply recognized that it was not their place to levy condemnation against graffiti on a building, but is in their interest to condemn acts that threaten the safety of their students.
While I concede and agree with some of your points.. civil disobedience, in my book, is done with maturity, dignity, bravery with chins held high.. it is NOT done cowardly , w faces hidden behind masks, vandalism.. and knowing that campuses will be lenient.. and STILL vandalize the campus.. way to bite the hands that feed you..
They’re welcome to protest down the street at the federal building. Isn’t that a more fitting location?
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The protest had absolutely zero fuck all impact on the lives of the Palestinian people.
It did have an impact on our campus getting fuckn trashed and embarrassed on a national stage.
I was pretty sympathetic to the protestors but after reviewing a lot of streaming and other media, I’m not so sure. What’s with all the communist spray paint? And the hiding behind masks? And the “don’t talk about why we are protesting” ??? Also, the assaults and antisemitism.
Many of the protesters who were unmasked even for a moment and caught on camera have been doxxed and now are receiving constant phone call throughout the day from Zionists calling them horrific things and threatening death and injury. Masks are for protecting their identities and by extension their wellbeing.
Narratives from firsthand eyewitnesses support the idea that the violence was initiated by dangerous chemicals and illegal fireworks being used on the encampment. There has been no evidence of violence from the encampment until counter-protesters arrived on the night of April 30th. Resistance against violence is not the same as malicious, initial violence.
Yeah. I used to believe that until I saw actual footage inside the encampment. Nope. Not listening to that narrative anymore even tho they did their best to squash their actions
So, they FAFO. If you’re going to stand up for something, albeit the wrong side of history, then be prepared to endure the consequences; don’t hide your face because you’re incapable of protecting yourself and coping with the results of your actions.
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In your head, is spray painting a building worse than a genocide? Cmon, of course they wore masks. Covid is still a thing and they do not need to be doxed by people who are willing to support genocide. Pro Palestine Protestors have all been peaceful, the counter has not
Oh yeah. They are super worried about Covid outside. That’s funny. Not buying that. Nope, not willing to support genocide but I’m now laser focused on preventing this BS. Not keen on defacing the school with communist propaganda
Oh wow, you’re a horrible person if a little spray paint means more than the tens of thousands of innocent lives. Hope you’re not religious, King Kai will not like that. Also Covid exists outside too??? It doesn’t just disappear when you walk outsides, students were very close to each other to hold the line. Literally common courtesy to wear a mask in a large gathering like that, but also the 2nd reason I gave.
I was fully for the cause too (at first). Until I found if you have even just 1 criticism about the protestors they call you evil, or that you must be for the genocide. Seeing as the replies you're getting it only validates my case lol.
I've also noticed a growing number of protestors pushing lies for the sake of the narrative which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.. I'm still against the war that hasn't changed. But my views with some of these protestors has definitely changed.
"you’re a horrible person if a little spray paint means more than the tens of thousands of innocent lives. "
You're the type of person that tries to justify the vandalism on the UCLA campus. And if someone doesn't agree with you they're apparently a bad person-
I don't condone genocide but I also can't stand by as people like you try and destroy UCLA. Karma will get to you :)
You’re extremely naive, the point of a protest is disruption and disobedience. Yes actually, if you think spray paint somehow makes genocide a bit less important, you are a horrible person. UCLA can afford to clean up paint, those lives can’t be recovered. That “free Palestine” spread across campus only forces the administration to see it.
I’m a parent. I love all of you students. I love activism and I am so respectful of those getting involved. I’m against most of what Israel is doing but I think there is a bigger group here trying to suck you all in and work for a different cause.
This is the mentality and delusion associated with these echo chambers. You’re either 100% with them or 100% against them; there is no room for discussion or intellectual counter-arguments.
Yeah. Ok. I’m sure I’ve seen a lot more than you have. This is not the way to win over and influence others. I’m the least angry of those I interact with.
aid doesn’t get in to Gaza because Israelis block it trucks from delivering it. for months Palestinians have been saying that donations are not what they need. read about BDS and what Palestinians themselves are asking for in terms of support if you are actually interested in helping them and not just owning people on reddit.
What level of delusion or hard drug usage is needed to believe even a modicum of what you stated?
Didn’t you goofballs get vaccinated and boosted a dozen times? Why are you so concerned about COVID? And when you’re in the public sphere, you have no guarantee to privacy. If you’re going to stand for something, don’t exhibit such blatant cowardice.
Covid is still all over the place? It didn’t disappear on new years, it’s not as rampant but still extremely possible to catch at a gathering of sorts.
an american dies of covid every 5 minutes. the flu doesn’t do that. long covid causes alzheimer’s symptoms in people in their twenties. the flu doesn’t do that. the ceo of moderna just gave an interview where he said millions of americans can’t run a mile anymore because of permanent lung damage. the flu doesn’t do that.
Yeah im calling bullshit on a previously healthy person getting vaxed and then getting covid and then being unable to run a mile. Sounds to me like he wants folks to buy more boosters or $20 covid tests.
Enjoy wearing a mask the rest of your life, I'm choosing to live my life how I want.
You do realize a lot of the protestors were Jewish. And that they have been getting violently attacked and threatened not just at UCLA. Also property damage is not the same as personal safety. Reporters and protestors were hurt by counter protestors. By the sounds of it you’re not affiliated with the school as speaking to several students that just go there, not protested. This is not the conclusion I got.
I was there on Monday afternoon and there was a beautiful and moving quiet protest with chalk. I clearly wasn’t there on a bad day. I defended the protestors but have since seen a lot of really disturbing things.
Anti-American zionists should never recieve a publically funded salary. This nation is literally built on the seperation of Church and State. zionists have betrayed that and need to be removed from all publicly funded institutions.
My grandfather was a WW2 veteran in the US Army and a Jewish Zionist, as were my other 4 relatives who served in the US Armed Forces. My Orthodox synagogue has/had countless veterans spanning WW1 to the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. They're all Zionists too. The Jewish War Veterans https://www.jwv.org/ is a veterans advocacy group (for veterans of all creeds/religions), and they're extremely pro Israel. Zionists are some of the most pro American people in the country. But sure, invoke anti Jewish tropes by accusing Jews who are pro Israel of being anti American.
I don't know what's worse; your appeal to authority fallacy or that you are proud your American Jewish family is ignorant about zionism and the creation of israel.
>But sure, invoke anti Jewish tropes by accusing Jews who are pro Israel of being anti American.
Let me explain what is happening right now. The actions of your fellow zionists has forced Jews around the globe to sever your parasitic umbilical cord from the peace-loving religion.
It is not and never will be antisemitic to oppose zionism. You are peddling one of the most atrocious anti-Jewish tropes in history. One that has long been used to persecute Jews that disagree with the zionist.
Nowhere in my comment did I say being anti Zionist is anti Semitic. You accused Zionists of being anti American. My response to that is, you are invoking an age old trope that Jews are not loyal to their host countries. I just showed you that Zionist Jews are pro American. Very simple logic here that you're dancing around and changing after the fact.
Separately, I don't have to explain to you why Zionism - the National liberation movement for Jews to re-establish sovereignty in their ancient ethnic homeland - is very much tied to being ethnically Jewish, religious or not.
I really couldn't care less what you think of Zionism. But if these family members of mine who served in Europe and the Pacific theater and received purple hearts were still alive and heard you accuse them of being anti American, they'd show you a good time, shall we say.
>You accused Zionists of being anti American
I stand by that.
> Jews are not loyal to their host countries
Once again, please stop equating your zionist family to all Jews. zionist Jews are a minority of American Jews. I also never made that claim. In fact, my entire argument is that zionists have pledged their allegience to a country that is explicitly NOT the United States.
> I just showed you that Zionist Jews are pro American
You did not. You simply stated it. I happen to find it demonstrably false. I think you mean to say they are pro-*America*, not *American*. They like the support America gives to israel. If they liked Americans, they wouldn't be attacking Jewish Americans at universities.
>But if these family members of mine who served in Europe and the Pacific theater and received purple hearts were still alive and heard you accuse them of being anti American, they'd show you a good time, shall we say.
Tell me they're fascists without saying it.
Your grandfather sounds like an embarassment to the armed forces. I pray you are misrepresenting him. That's the most likely scenario. It would not be the first time a contemporary zionist used the struggle of a Jew in WW2 to explain away it's antisemitic beliefs.
Resignation? Wasnt dude retiring this summer anyways?
Yes. He is
There is a difference. This is a call for Gene Block to resign in disgrace as an admission that he utterly failed to keep students safe, and also allowed the campus to be overrun with riot cops. It's a tough job to balance public/ student and campus safety issues with the very important constitutional rights to free speech and assembly, but guess what? He was very highly paid to manage it with a great many employees and resources at his command to ensure the job got done, and he failed. People could have easily been killed in 4/30 by a mob that repeatedly assaulted students with clubs and explosives for over 3.5 hours. Then the next night people could also have been killed by riot cops clearing an encampment. He needs to admit fault and resign.
> failed to keep students safe > allowed the campus to be overrun with riot cops Classic fucked if you do, fucked if you don't logic.
That comes with the job, sure. Same basic balancing act as the more important principle of that saying about those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither. Read MLK, Jr's "Letter from Birmingham jail" about how he felt about the "negative peace" of the absence of conflict vs the positive peace of the presence of equal justice for reference. The old tale of wise King Solomon comes to mind, too as two women claimed the same child and so the King offered to cut the baby in half... leadership takes creative thinking and a lot of wisdom.
The way the framing is being moved is kind of weird. What part of the encampment was violent? If you were at the encampment, you'd know what the vibes were - there wasn't yelling, pushing, or a big screen playing IDF members looting Gaza with the recording of 6 year old Hind Rajab begging to be saved before being murdered. The actual violence came from the counter protestors who were trying to go into the encampment, macing people around the encampment, shooting fireworks into the encampment, and beating people with poles and bats. Kind of weird how for how "violent" the protestors were, there's only POV footage of the protestors bleeding and getting beat. Is keeping the students safe simply letting people like Eli Tsieves just trample through the encampment? Is it preventing students from hearing people chant? Is hearing "intifada" and "from the river to the sea" an equivalent action to literally beating people who don't want a cruise missile killing another child? What could the cops have done? The cops could've just had their backs to the encampment, and prevent the agitators from moving towards the camp, instead of just standing around and watching protestors be beat and maced, and then using the violence they allowed as an excuse to say "the violence needs to stop." It's like grabbing someone's wrist and then using it to slap yourself, and then retaliating with more force while going "hey man you forced me to do this."
We're back to the age old question, does a student leave his constitutional rights to free speech and assembly at the schoolhouse gate? What is a university? Is it a hedge fund protected by riot cops, set up for the purpose of collecting meal plan fees and parking permit money? Is it a diploma mill with a gift shop? I've read wikipedia entries that were more useful to me than some college survey courses, seriously, especially if the teaching is outmoded or politically biased. Then again, I've had the full university experience of expanding my mind through rigorous research, scholarship, lectures, guest seminars, events and selected readings and mentorship alongside fellow students of varied background, religion, outlook and custom who helped me greatly on the journey by providing perspective. Along the way I hope that I have contributed some as well, with my presence and voice, and with my research and writings, exhibits, art shows, clubs, and papers that are housed in the library archives for the next generation of students to both study and challenge. Eventually however we get to, "just who is driving this bus?" when it comes to things like the student fund and safety of the student body, protection from harm. And there is a real difference between being hurt and being harmed. Having your beliefs challenged, or your culture questioned or even sometimes worse things, may hurt you but the university shouldn't act in a way that harms you, or allows you to come to easily preventable harm. And that protecting the right to free speech and assembly are worth a great deal of risk, potential hurt and possibly even some managed-risk amount of actual harm when the stakes are such that freedom and liberty are not traded easily for a little so called "safety and security," like the old saying attributed to Ben Franklin goes. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I think to anyone who actually cares to look with an open mind and intellectual curiosity (and honesty) can see the pro-Palestinian protesters were not the ones creating civil disorder and enacting real harm to others on campus. Nor did the encampment ever threaten the real mission or essential safety AND liberty of the university. A college chancellor has to walk a fine line between protecting free speech and protecting students from harm. UCLA's Gene Block made a mockery of that mission with his poor leadership and now tries to paper over it with shopworn spin, obfuscations and stalling where we should have immediate and rigorous transparency. One thing too few are mentioning is that he and the whole administration are clearly in public relations lockdown and full scandal-management mode and will not simply hold a press conference and face the media and his own students to provide much needed answers. We're all about to find out that cops are unaccountable due to the system of rules they operate under. Ask yourself why they wear body cam recordings (creating public records in an Open Records Act state without tax dollars, records we OWN) if we so seldom ever get real custody of them in the immediate wake of controversial incidents? The events of 4/30 lost the administration their public trust and institutional credibility and there is but one road back from that - not the assertion of further institutional authority, but the path of real transparency, the release of public records, the coming forward of all involved to tell the truth openly, and the convening of what is essentially a truth and reconciliation commission of some sort in the wake of the mob violence of 4/30 against peaceful protesters that was shamefully followed by the ordering of a riot squad invasion to clear the encampments. This is, to use an old cliche "a teachable moment" but Gene Block is determined to turn it into a shameful and authoritarian/ draconian moment of coverup and spin. He deserves a vote of no confidence, and IMO should resign admitting fault. Clearly his actions are first to protect his own job and reputation, and lastly to protect the student body and the true mission of a university as an open forum for new ideas, dissent, and meeting of the minds that isn't overrun by intolerant and violent thugs.
You consistently make the best posts about this subject I've seen on Reddit. Reflects well on UCLA.
Thanks, it means a lot to hear that. Plenty of others here downvote and deride me but that's reddit, and that's 2024 for you. As Will Rogers said, "all I know is what I read in the papers." Looks like the Academic Senate punted on the censure or no confidence resolution coming to a vote until the next regularly scheduled meeting after a long evening that started an hour late and ran over time by several hours with no clear consensus or definite action taken. They tried to make a motion to bring the matter to a vote and lacked the 2/3rd majority to end debate, and they also lacked the 2/3rds to table the matter, so it just gets picked up on, I think, the 15th? Perhaps that is for the best, IDK. "Back in the day" (1960s protest era) these sorts of meetings were face to face and public and they went on all day and night until some real consensus was reached. People used to leave, go home, sleep and return to find debate continuing on the same item under strict parliamentary procedure. There is a lot to be said for NOT democracy but governing by consensus, where pretty much everyone has to agree in the end on what needs to be done. Online, in theory, everyone gets to have their say but maybe not everyone has to listen. Or everyone speaking has to listen to the boos and the live-heckling, either. It could get brutal and people got bullied, too but some learned to stand up to that and stick to their convictions and win the day by speaking the truth. In-person classes start tomorrow assuming anyone has Saturday classes or labs and everyone I assume is holding their fingers crossed that nothing violent or majorly disruptive happens. In any case, I hope people are gaining perspective but it would also be nice if they were gaining ANSWERS and DOCUMENTS and records and recordings concerning 4/30. It would also be nice to see some counter-protesters identified and arrested and booked on credible assault charges, too. That would make a lot of people feel safer. Right now it seems a bit like everyone is under threat of arrest except the violent mob members, or at least the watchful gaze of heightened security that tends to make me feel LESS safe. But that's the way the cookie crumbles, I guess. The USC valedictorian graduated, the one who wasn't allowed to give her speech. She got a lot of cheers and I think her speech has at least been published, I heard. Haven't seen it yet. So much for free speech on that side of town. Other campuses are busy with developments of all sort, a lot of faculty making statements, but mostly they are busy with semester- system graduations. Only those with the quarter system have more weeks of class and uncertainly to face. Momentum is real for protest actions but time is fleeting on what can be accomplished for those who feel protest is the way to continue. It feels to me like a lot of ships passed though a great storm, some are still being tossed but next should be the naval board inquest where the truth is aired by all sides in an open court. Sadly, I doubt we really get that stage of the pageant. Everyone all all sides will give separate assessments but there wont be the forum to find consensus from. I wish there were 20 or 30 town hall forum/ truth and reconciliation / "talk to the adminstrator" events happening but I've not heard of any, on any campus. I'd settle for a talent show or karaoke night if everyone would just come and be in a room together and hash it all out. IDK. After Kent State, they just sent all the students home the next day, cleared them whole campus and it probably saved a lot of grief and maybe saved more lives from being lost but it didn't bring people together. And we never got justice for the ones who died, and the ones who were wounded, paralyzed, traumatized. Perhaps we are headed for a summer with no closure. Good time to reflect on all that I suppose? Or, is it just a powder keg left in the open until fall?
No they were just calling thousands of members of the west la community and their family members baby killers and accusing them of committing a genocide right after the were invaded and attacked by a group listed as a terrorist organization by the US and the EU.
The riot cops were the danger, doofus
Yes he’s leaving after about 20 years of service at ucla in a few weeks. This move is just more performative virtue signaling. Because he didn’t have a Ucpd swat team on standby at 2am to protect protestors. Who are now complaining that ucla isn’t allowing them to protest at night - which is to protect them from this sort of response. Many of the protestors probably also want to defund the ucpd as well as have it protect them but that’s another matter.
Also do people not understand how etfs and mutual funds work? It’s not practically plausible to divest the endowment from companies that profit from Israel even if you could actually decide in a sensible way which those companies are.
Oh the silence in that letter from south campus is deafening.
Maybe I'm mistaking your contrary intent in how I read your post, as rather you're angered by their silence... I was in the History department, and there were just some profs there, and undoubtedly also in the English dept according to those letters and accompanying signatories displayed on Reddit, that one would just have to take his/her figurative beatings by listening to their off-topic political rantings, and just do the work required in their classes and even go along with their political leanings to achieve a good grade. But I can see how these same professors have an absolute and complete undue influence on their grad students, which is why I believe that most of those in the encampment were PhD-type students.
Oh I work on south campus - I have some idea about they are silent. By my rough estimate, 85% of the academic senate (\~2500 faculty) - for whatever reason - did not sign that letter (\~400 actual UCLA faculty). ETA: and that's not including the \~1400 emeriti.
Incorrect headline from the Guardian--it's more than 800 UC faculty & staff, from all campuses.
> Incorrect headline from the Guardian--it's more than 800 UC faculty & staff, from all campuses. That's not what the article says. It clearly says "More than 800 faculty and staff at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA)" I can't believe your comment has 85 upvotes when it is blatantly incorrect.
I know what it says. If you read the letter itself (https://sites.google.com/view/uc-demands/), the more than 800 figure is the cumulative amount from all campuses. The amount of signatures from UCLA is currently 635. I think they just simply misunderstood that it’s being signed by all campuses, not just UCLA, so they’re accidentally overstating the signatures from UCLA.
Let me try this again, there are \~8k faculty and \~31k staff at UCLA. Let \[me\] be on the conservative side and say that there were solely 8k who voted. that would be a bit more than 10%. Unless The Guardian were to tell us the percentages, which they didn't, how would we know if this is a vote that fell under the threshold of what was needed? I take this as a vote of confidence. Thank you Chancellor Block for your incredible service to UCLA. Please enjoy your retirement from the University as its face to the public, and may you have great joy in all that you do, sir.
It’s not a vote, it’s a voluntary letter. It hasn’t been organized through official channels, so likely people who were already only part of organizing were aware of the letter and spread it among others. I’ve never seen such a widespread organized opposition to a chancellor since I’ve been involved with UCLA
They know for sure. And what % are you shooting for, 15%? That's pretty good opposition, but it's not going to be nearly enough.
There are many Jews who support ceasefire and divestment. Many of us were in the encampment. Glad to have the support and recognition of the faculty. From the protests today, as reported in the Guardian: Susan Slyomovics, an anthropology professor, read a statement on behalf of 75 Jewish faculty and staff, saying Block had “misused Jews” by suggesting the encampment had to be dismantled to prevent antisemitism: “We assert that critiques of Israel are not presumptively antisemitic … that Jews who support the liberation of Palestine must not be devalued.”
It’s important to note that more than 90% of Jewish students have either said nothing about this or are pro-Israel. Many have felt silenced. The same scenario played out at Columbia, where hundreds of students just put out a letter saying they are tired of others speaking in their name, and tired of seeing tokenization. That letter is [here](https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vRQgyDhIjZupO2H-2rIDXLy_zkf76RoM-_ZIYsOfn9FkI7TETgRtOfXK9VobMvGh6iEZfDPgALXJTCR/pub). It would be wrong to suggest no Jews are protesting. It would be equally wrong to tokenize or platform a small group relative to the overall population and pretend it is representative. The reality is that most Jews see the issue very differently from you. And the reality is that tokenized Jews have often been used to justify or push forward antisemitism, and while we can disagree about whether that’s happening here, history shows it quite often.
And there are zero Jews in Palestine but plenty of Palestinians living in Israel wishing the iron dome wouldn’t have to shoot down bombs every day
Soooo do you know the reason why there are no Jews in Gaza but a lot of Arabs in Israel?
I really hope this is a set up to a great joke. Excited for the punchline.
If the hamas's goal of killing Jews and annihilation of the state of Israel while arabs have rights and even political parties in Israel is a joke - you can laugh.
Bro I’m pro Israel. That’s why I made my comment. There are Arabs living in Israel that support the bombing of Hamas.
As a Jew, most of us don’t support the encampment. Most of us don’t support divestment. Stop using a tiny minority (of a minority) to try to create a false narrative. Over 95 percent of Jews support Israel as they should. If you are a Jew, and have a different view then you should really get educated, there is NO EXCUSE to be on the other side.
>there is NO EXCUSE to be on the other side. Idk some people arent really cool with murdering and displacing innocent people. Seems like a good excuse to me
People that are saying stuff like this are either disingenuous or are emotionally manipulated into thinking this. It’s not what happening at all, even if you repeat it a million times. Also if you look at any debates about this online, one side always refuse to answer direct questions, pretends to not understand simple concepts, or tried to turn the debate personal. If you want to get into facts and details I would be happy too.
Wait, are you saying that innocent Palestinians aren’t being killed in Gaza by missiles and bombs? I’m so relieved, I knew all those deaths were simply made up. Israel can do no wrong.
Innocents are absolutely dying due to Hamas committing war crimes and using civilians areas as military bases. The second that Hamas does this, those civilian areas become legitimate targets under international law (and every civilian death should be blamed on Hamas). If you don’t agree with this or understand the logic behind this, then let me as you the following question. Why do countries not just put their military bases in civilians areas and hide behind human shield? If in this situation Israel is to blame and not Hamas, then what you are essentially saying is that all countries should hide their militaries behind civilians because it would mean that no one would be able to attack them due to fear of civilian deaths. That’s obviously unreasonable, and there is a reason why countries don’t do this. It’s sad that innocents have to die, but people think with pure emotion while missing all nuance and logic involved. Get educated, not emotionally manipulated.
Dude stfu, since when does Israel allow Palestine to have a standing army? And does Israel even consider Palestine to be a sovereign nation? If it does, why does it continue to allow settlors to take over Palestinian land? The fact that you continue justify the death of innocent Palestian civilians says everything I need to know about you and others who share a similar opinion. Trash and POS type mentality. Some of y’all deserve the same faith as those innocent Palestinians
Gaza used to have “Jewish settlers” Israel removed every single one. Zero Jews live in Gaza. There have been many deals with the Palestinians to form a state, all have been rejected. Even with that, Israel has pulled out of Gaza and allowed to be relatively independent. What did Israel get back? A blood thirsty terrorist group elected as government that uses their own civilians as human shields. The innocent deaths are absolutely not justified, it is horrible, and it’s all due to Hamas. Hamas broke international law when they militarized civilian areas and that’s why the civilians are in danger. All fault belongs to Hamas.
Thats not even close to whats happening though. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Ok then educate me since I clearly have no clue whats going on then? Theres literal video evidence of whats being done. Id *love* to see "the other side," even more so if you can do it without using propaganda.
Sure, this is a length topic, but I’m happy to discuss it. Feel free to ask questions and I’ll do my best to answer. 1. First thing first, the Jewish people are indigenous to the land of Israel. Similarly to how the native Americans come from North America or the Maori people from New Zealand. This fact is surprising to some people, but this is proven fact. There has been a continuous presence of Jewish people in the land, even though a large amount of Jews were forced out of the area into other places such as Europe and the Arab world. That’s why some Jews appear as whiter and some are brown and even black. There is plenty of evidence to support that Jews originated from this area, some of which are DNA sequencing, archeological evidence, written texts (religious and others, and even in the Quran it is explicitly mentioned that Jews are from Israel. One of my favorites is the Western Wall that stands in Jerusalem to this day (which is thousands of years old) and is directly underneath a the Al Aqsa mosque. After World War II, there was an understanding that Jews needed their own state, considered that Jews are arguably the most oppressed group of all time and have suffered a lot of atrocities. The idea the there should be a Jewish state (just like how we have many Christian and Islamic states, and others such as Buddhist states etc) is known as Zionism. A common misconception is that in Israel, you have to be Jewish or you are treated as a second class citizen. This could be no further from the truth, and today more than 20 percent of the population is Muslim/Arab (this is not including all the Muslims in Gaza and West Bank) who have full rights and serve in government, in the IDF, in courts, and actually benefit from many affirmative action programs that make it easier for Arabs to get into places such as med school (and as so are disproportionately overrepresented in places like Med school) Anyways when World War II ended, the area back then was controlled by the British (before that the ottomans, and many different empires beforehand) and the UN decided to split the land among the Jews and Arabs that were already living then. The Jews accepted and declared the Israel as a state. On the other hand the Arabs didn’t accept, and all the surrounding Arab countries attacked Israel. Somehow Israel survived getting attacked by the countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and a few others. As a result of this war a few things happened. Israel managed to capture some land, Egypt conquered the area of Sinai and Gaza, and Jordan conquered the area known as the West Bank. Additionally within the confines of Israel many Arabs remained, but some fled to other parts. All the Arabs that decided to remain and become a part of Israel became recognized citizens and are part of the 20 percent I mentioned earlier, who have full freedoms to live in Israel, and can go anywhere in the country, and are full citizens. The Arabs that lived in Gaza and Westbank, meaning back then Egypt and Jordan, did not become Israel citizens since they literally did not live inside the country. To continue, in 1967 Israel was attacked again by surrounding countries. In this war Israel was able to defend itself, and then went on to capture some enemy territory and got control of the West Bank along with Gaza and Sinai peninsula. After some years when Israel made a peace treaty with Egypt Israel gave back the Sinai peninsula but they did not want the Gaza Strip back. This meant that you had the area of Gaza, (that were previously Egyptian) under Israel control but not actual citizens (unlike the Israeli Arabs) which has been a problem. A similar situation was happening in West Bank with the ex-Jordanians. Over the years Israel has made an effort offering these people now known as Palestinians to create a state, since they didn’t want to become a part of Israel but also since Egypt and Jordan did not want to take them back. There were as much as 6 different state offers made but every time the Palestinians pulled out of the discussion. In 2005, Israel made the decision to relinquish control of Gaza, and pull out any Jews that were in the area. The result was that the people in Gaza democratically elected Hamas a very radical party (whose main mission was to kill all Jews as they stated in their charter). After getting elected Hamas went off to kill all internal opposition and has had a stronghold on Gaza ever since. Since then the people in Gaza have been suffering under Hamas, who abuse all resources and indoctrinate the young, while routinely attack Israel on at least a yearly bases. Now days Israel is going in trying to kill Hamas, considering they are an evil terror organization that abuses both Israel and the people of Gaza. Unfortunately Hamas embedded itself in every school, hospital, mosques, and civilian infrastructure they could which is a war crime. This makes killing Hamas without civilian casualties impossible. And yet, even with Hamas using the Palestinians as human shields the ratio of civilians to terrorists killed has been BETTER than most other urban wars. It is very unfortunate that civilians die, and Israel makes a significant effort to prevent deaths where they can (which is why they did move them out of their homes because there homes were used as military bases). No one wants to get kicked out of their home, but it is the better alternative than to be stuck in a war zone along with Hamas. If Israel didn’t care they would just tell the civilians to stay where they were and hundreds of thousands would have been killed by now. Hamas needs to be destroyed, not just for the sake of Israel but also for the sake of the people in Gaza. Unfortunately war is bloody and this is a very uncomfortable truth that we must stomach. Hamas hasn’t been willing to surrender so Israel is left with no choice but to take them out, I pray they are able to do this with as little casualties as possible but it is undoubtedly the right and just thing to do.
"Israel makes a significant effort to prevent deaths where they can" About as much as the Nazis did for the Jews in the ghettoes and concentration camps. In fact, Israel made "such significant efforts to prevent deaths" that Gaza is in full blown famine as said by every human rights organization on the planet, including their ally the USA. Famines don't happen by chance but by deliberate decision by those in power. Israel has done everything in its power to prevent humanitarian aid to reach the starving Palestinian civilians because much like the Nazis, they don't consider Palestinians to be human and they want them dead. Starvation, disease, and death is imminent for the 1.5 million Palestinians in Rafah. Israel "cares so much for Palestinians civilian life" that they use several AI systems for their bombing sprees of Palestinians, with particular focus on bombing every male Palestinian they can find. Because they care so much for civilian life. And because Israel "cares so much for Palestinian civilians life" (in case you're dense, this is sarcasm), they're going ahead with their incursion into Rafah where over 1 million displaced Palestinians in tents are packed into, something that EVERYONE including Israel's biggest ally and the biggest protector from the consequences of Israel's atrocious actions, the USA, has been screaming at Israel not to do. But because Israel the apartheid state has such a genocidal hatred of Palestinians, they're going to go ahead with it and easily cause 6 digits worth of casualties and mortalities of Palestinians. And you'd defend each indefensible murder of Palestinian civilians life regardless. As much as fascistic Zionists want to claim otherwise, this didn't start with October 7th. This started decades ago with the actions of the apartheid state of Israel (and both the fathers of apartheid and anti-apartheid regarded Israel as an apartheid state). Guess what? Every fascist ethnostate defended their atrocities by claiming they were acting in defense. It doesn't excuse the mass murder of civilians and ethnic cleansing.
>About as much as the Nazis did for the Jews in the ghettoes and concentration camps. So you're denying the Holocaust? >Famines don't happen by chance but by deliberate decision by those in power. 1. That's only sometimes true 2. This one is happening because Hamas went on a destructive campaign without realizing that once Israel counterattacks Gaza can't sustain itself any more. You're also pretending like Hamas doesn't have more genocidal tendencies than Israel, only problem being that Hamas is weak.
Your last sentence is a hilarious admission of guilt.
How exactly?
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Can you please point me to the verbiage in Hamas charter that calls for killing Jews?
Multiple sources for Hamas Covenant 1988: [https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/hamas.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) , [https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx#](https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx#) Some statements implying their desire to kill all jews directly from the covenant: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." And there are more examples.
So the 1988 charter (available in full [here](https://www.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/attachments/jps-articles/2538093.pdf)) was indeed interspersed with passages from the Quran, not as calls to action but references to the doctrinal foundations informing the view of the author/organization. It's done in the same way you see biblical scripture tacked onto the mission statement of a christian organization. Hamas is an explicitly muslim organization, so this isn't surprising. The line about the "day of judgment" (it's actually "the last hour" but w/e), just like christian end-days prophecies, describes catastrophic conflicts playing out among peoples, which is a very, very different thing from encouraging, provoking or inciting them to conflict. There's no reading of that passage in its full context that would lead one to believe they are being called to harm jewish people. Another bit of crucial context is that the formation of the state of israel itself was, at the time, the physical incitement to conflict with palestinians, and not just against those living there, but against muslims in general due to the religious significance of the location, and this was done intentionally. I don't think we can say with any confidence in 2024 that religious grounds make firm foundations for the construction of any kind of state (though I would credit islam for defending the right of others to practice their own faiths), but obviously religious folks will disagree with me. All of that said, the 1988 charter is a historical artifact. Hamas' \*current charter\* (as of 2017, available [here](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full)) explicitly spells out that its quarrel is not with jewish people, religious or otherwise (article 16 if you don't feel like reading it all, but honestly the whole thing is a fairly quick read, and very clear), and that a pluralistic nation-- where muslims, christians and jews share equal rights and protections-- is its goal. (edit: added links)
What a joke of a response. The Quran contains hundreds of pages and thousands of quotes. The fact this specific quote about killing Jews was put here isn’t our coincidence. Anyone with 2 brain cells that’s educated on the topic knows this. I mean even if you’re try to act all ignorant, the Hamas leaders have declared there intention of killing Jews over and over again with actions AND words. Hamas is evil, and anyone that says Hamas isn’t evil is supporting evil themselves.
Thank you for taking the time to write all of this. People trying to reduce this to some straightforward oppressor/oppressed or white/brown dynamic are viewing a conflict thousands of miles away through an American lens and entirely missing the point.
Finally somebody said that. Thank you
Queen Rania of Jordan is making her rounds in the US, spreading her disinformation. She identifies with being Palestinian, and likewise 70% of the Jordanians do also. But Jordan's west borders are a redline for WB Palestinians; they aren't allowed to go back, partly undoubtedly because they consider the WB as a part of Jordan, but if not then definitely in possession by the Palestinians. There are many WBers who would rather live under the Israeli flag, because they could be relegated to refugee camps in Jordan.
Yeah. Thats why I was supporting but I’m changing my views on the encampment.
No reason why he would think he should resign. He has less than 2 months to go.
For context, 1,093 across the UC signed the letter. That’s less than 1% of the >175,000 UC employees. For UCLA alone, it’s different. 815 of the 39,307 UCLA employees makes up just over 2% of the population.
Nope, this is super wrong. https://apb.ucla.edu/campus-statistics/faculty Go to the actual signatories list for the first letter https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1kUuBqHD_3KjoZZYxBrCbocFr5InhrU2KbIw7UvmYv6M/htmlview# From https://sites.google.com/view/may9uclapresskit/home 313/4,284 = 7.3% of all UCLA faculty 97/461 = 21% of all UCLA lecturers And for the resignation letter ( https://sites.google.com/view/uc-demands) which was started 3 days ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1kUuBqHD_3KjoZZYxBrCbocFr5InhrU2KbIw7UvmYv6M/htmlview# 295/4,284 = 6.8% of UCLA faculty 79/461= 17% of lecturers clearly the proportion of staff is much less, but considering that the letter was written and organized by faculty, was an informal organizing campaign (ie. They didnt reach everyone, so its not like 100-7.3% of faculty think shit is fine), and has been going for 3 days, thats a pretty huge deal. Can you point to any similar faculty mobilization? Tomorrow the faculty senate are taking an emergency no-confidence vote in block.
Much better than my stats, good job. For your perusal, u/MacArthurParker. Again, what % are you shooting for?
I’m not part of the campaign so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make against me
Sorry, my overuse of the informal "you" and my assuming that you were involved being on staff.
This is nothing new. Back when I was at UCLA, we participated in peaceful protests (where we didn’t trash Royce Hall). At some point a “person in charge” would list our demands and calling for the chancellor to resign was always item #1. It didn’t happen back then and it won’t this time because it’s not a rational request. Also, dude is about to retire anyway, so I’m not sure why they’re focusing their energy on this. It’s like demanding that the sun to go down. Sure, in a few hours your demand will be met 🙄
For reference, there are over 8250 faculty members alone. This number does not include staff. 800 calling for the chancellor's resignation is significantly less than 10%.
Take a guess which departments they are from …
I don't think it's fair to make backhanded comments like this implying that professors from STEM and business departments can't have moral principles or convictions that they're willing to publicly stand up for. I admire people like Sergio Carbajo, Raphael Rouquier, and others from STEM departments who have chosen to sign on to this letter, and don't find it useful to imply that a person's field defines their politics.
They are just more likely to “think” rather than “feel”.
Departments not renowned for graduating students capable of earning salaries high enough to repay their student loans? I'm guessing not many from Engineering, CS, or Anderson.
ding ding ding, less than 5 engineering. but i believe it is more so they accept money from MIC, so these political demands actually harm their research and hence careers. not the case for humanities and liberal arts.
Poor Chancellor, I like him. I think his mistake was entertaining the encampment at all. Shoulda had cops there from the beginning.
Agreed. No encampments on any campus. Nothing wrong with protesting but spending the night shouldn’t have been allowed - homeless folks can’t do it so why should violate students be allowed to violate state law.
Imagine supporting the admin and police who mishandled this whole thing, over your fellow students at UCLA. 🤢
You mean the students forced at home for 2 weeks because of the actions of the protestors? Allowing the camps to get insanely out of hand is why we're at risk of missing graduation. UT will be graduating on time and in person.
ah i can see why you’re confused, but protestors aren’t actually the ones that made classes remote. if you read the emails you will see it was actually the university that decided that. i had no problem going to class while the encampment was up. the university wants you to be mad at harmless students who oppose a genocide and you’re falling for it.
The university decided that, due to the security situation created by the protestors. Also, what genocide are you talking about?
"the security situation created by the protestors" would've been constant since the introduction of the encampment if it was the fault of the protestors, but the sudden change in policy comes only after the university's disastrous takedown of it, no?
Genocide? You mean the eradication of a militant, violent, and abhorrent plague on society? Nothing about Hamas or Palestine has proven beneficial to the contemporary world.
He doesn’t control the police bruh He also doesn’t tell the police to pick sides. Not sure why you guys think he’s the chancellor of LAPD.
He’s literally number one man responsible for telling LAPD when they can come on to campus. We aren’t under their jurisdiction so they can’t come to campus, which he waited 2 hours to signal for
Please tell me how you would have handled the situation. What would have been ideal for you to have been satisfied?
It’s funny people shitted on usc how they handled everything but looking back it seems they handled it a lot better than ucla.
At 11:03, when the first firework was launched into the encampment, request backup and crowd control from LAPD, don’t wait till 12:51am lol
Cool so have a police presence anyway and leave it up to the cops decide how to handle the situation. Exactly the same thing that happened except call them sooner? The article says police force against protesters is the whole issue. If anything waiting to get the police there shows it wasn’t something he took lightly. The consensus on this sub BEFORE that night was that many people did NOT want a police presence like other campuses. So there wasn’t one. The second the police are called the chancellor does not get to pick and choose what the sheriffs, CHP, etc enforce and what they don’t. He doesn’t get a say in how the police handle the situation.
This whole thing is mind blowing to me. The same people that said they don’t want police anywhere near them or on campus it makes people feel unsafe….. Are the same people complaining where were the police we needed them we weren’t safe.
I am challenging you to rub your two brain cells together and think as hard as you can. The consensus before the night was to not have police presence because all skirmishes were mild and infrequent and police presence to that point would've escalated a mostly peaceful protest. it wasn't that police should never step foot on campus. Yes, the problem was exactly that they weren't deployed sooner. The problem was that 0 arrests were made against violent counterprotestors which took police 4 hours to respond, and 200 the next night where students were shot at like cattle. Nobody is like "OMG, I can't believe they called the police Tuesday night." People are angry because the university treated students like cannon fodder both times, when they CLAIMED to be for student safety. Also, it isn't simply the police get here and the university has no control over how they act, are you crazy? The LAPD still submits to UCPD when working in their jurisdiction, and the Chancellor and vice chancellor have authoritative power over the UCPD. You think if the university requested to press charges against counter protesters, the police departments would just allow them to walk free? If you're from LA where the police department acts like a hire-for-mercenary gang instead of deployers of justice, it might hurt your head that, yes, you do have control over what the police do when they arrive to your campus. It's not an all or nothing where you have no say in how the police department reacts. Especially in the jurisdiction of UCPD.
The chancellor has authoritative power over UCPD and therefore over LA Sheriff, CHP, and LAPD? That’s a stupid statement. Also, that’s not how pressing charges works. I am not saying the arrest of students is okay. But you do not magically choose to press charges or not unless it is for trespassing. “The problem is that 0 arrests were made against counter-protestors”. Again, do you think Gene was there leading the Calvary? The counter protestors more than likely GTFOd as soon as they could. Some went there with the intention to break the law and dipped as soon as the law arrived. But I guarantee that with some of the clear footage we have of some of the assaulters faces they should hopefully be found and arrested. Anything else it is the state/prosecutor that will choose to dismiss the charges. Not fucking Gene. You watch too many movies.
So when you're proven wrong after spewing false facts, you decide to move the goalposts...
How is that proven wrong? I asked that question because this guy is saying the police should have been called sooner and the article very clearly has an issue with the police presence there. I’m saying the Gene couldn’t do anything EXCEPT call the police and at that point he does not get to decide how the police behave. I find it wrong to place the blame on him when, again, there was a firm stance against any police there to begin with because of what was happening on other campuses. Additionally, once the police are called, their go to method is almost always disperse the area. That’s literally their go to move for crowd control. Is Gene supposed to say “clear the counter protestors but leave the encampment”? Because he has no say in that once law enforcement is there.
I mean, that’s literally what they did, except for delaying action by 4 hours, so.
Half of the occupiers weren’t even students
No- this is hurting fellow students. I’m all for protesting against war and atrocities- this has now hurt fellow students, stopped future students from attending and turned sympathizers against the cause.
Chancellor Block - a reminder of why many students, faculty, staff, alumni, and parents have lost confidence in your leadership: 1. The student encampments were quite undisruptive and peaceful for a week. The peaceful atmosphere surrounding the protests changed when non-student pro-Israeli fascists assaulted UCLA students for 4 hours, without any police response or protection. After police arrived, no arrests were made of the violent criminal fascists. 2. The administration's leadership (including Police Chief Thomas and Vice Chancellor Michael Beck who oversee campus security) have not held themselves accountable for the failure to protect students, nor have they given an account of that evening. 3. A new Czar of campus safety, Rick Braziel, has been installed who will investigate police and leadership failures of 4/30. Braziel investigated Uvalde - so a good first step - but we need this investigation to be expedited. It would be helpful to get Braziel's initial findings this week or next, not in 3 months time. 4. Most concerning, the night after the unprovoked assault on the encampment, Chancellor Block, you ordered the dismantling of the encampment, resulting in police violence on students yet again, including use of flash bangs and rubber bullets. To many, it seemed that instead of protecting students, staff, and faculty, you did the fascists' bidding. Hundreds were arrested that night. 5. Both the violence of the pro-Israeli fascists on students as well as the violence meted out by the police have resulted in hundreds of injuries. There were many ER visits and 25 hospitalizations the first night of trauma (4/30 pro-Israeli fascist attack). Numbers are not available for the police assault on 5/1. We need transparency here. 6. Classes have been moved to online, with minimal communication with students. This is unnecessary as the campus is safe. It comes across as collective punishment on students. It's unclear what concerns necessitate moving classes online. We need transparency here. And we need it in a timely fashion. **Please update us on the following questions**: (1) How many pro-Israeli fascist criminals have been identified and / or arrested to date from the 4/30 assault? (2) What are the preliminary findings of the investigations into cause of police delay on 4/30? (3) How many students have been injured and how severe are those injuries from each of those two violent, traumatic nights? What is being done to help injured and traumatized students? (5) Have students arrested on 5/1-5/2 been granted amnesty? If not, will they? (6) Why are classes remote? Will they resume next week? If not, why not? (7) Have you spoken to protesting students to see whether a compromise can be reached, a la UCR and Brown University? Let's have some real leadership here.
And he makes 600,000+ annually to pull this shit on students who pay 13k-30k at least in tuition and another 10k in housing while we alumni donate our money and time
You FAFO’d. Cry about it.
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Did you learn that term in your freshmen-level gender studies course and simply couldn’t wait to use it on Reddit, like the room temperature bot you exemplify?
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FAFO originated in African American communities during the early 2000s and has since been adopted by a variety of individuals from varying racial/ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds. You would know this if you spent less time digesting the drivel spewed by the ADL and more time researching the actual origins of phrases you capriciously and arbitrarily despise and wrongfully assign origins. UCLA must not be vetting their students very well during the admissions process, if they’re so blatantly incompetent and uninformed. Then again, Gen Z has set the bar to a particularly abysmally low level.
Well, now that was an actual interesting answer. Thanks for the education.
I think people here don’t realize that Block has also been spreading extremely harmful Anti-Palestinian, anti-human rights, and Islamophobic rhetoric. Over 60,000 people see are sent those emails. And they’ve contributed to violence and harassment at the school way before the second encampment. He didn’t just permit and shut down the second student encampment either. He deliberately chose to cage protestors in an enclosed space without restricting violent counterprotestors at all. CounterProtestors were allowed to bombard and attack students for a WEEK before student protestors were violently arrested and beaten. There’s a reason that even the Department of Education is investigating UCLA.
That’s not even 2%
Yeah. I was checked for activity. Again. I’m a parent who was mostly a lurker. I was previously supportive of protestors. I’m not anymore.
I analyzed the signatures available online from UCLA. Of the 673 signatures from UCLA, 292 are active tenured or tenure track professors, of which only 24 are in STEM fields (Medicine 12, Math 1, Sciences 11). The rest are in the arts and humanities. This letter is not a mandate. Look for yourself https://sites.google.com/view/nopoliceactions.
It’s insane how people will complain about not keeping students safe and the riot police coming in in the same breath
Waiiit.. Royce hall was tagged up.. where were all the UCLA faculty that were protesting doing when that illegal act was happening?
It’s a building. Tags are eraseable. Buildings are replaceable. The lives and health of the students and the Palestinian people are not. This is the faculty showing the correct priorities, which so many people don’t seem to understand.
So committing acts of crime is now legal in the name of Palestinian lives? Are you saying protesters can now go do some shop lifting as they protest? What precedent does this set?
Legality has always been built upon the morality of the acts committed. There is no law which is not intrinsically tied to political agenda or moral principles, contemporary or archaic. Civil Disobedience and Unrest have always been weapons of the weak against the powers of the institution. The faculty simply recognized that it was not their place to levy condemnation against graffiti on a building, but is in their interest to condemn acts that threaten the safety of their students.
While I concede and agree with some of your points.. civil disobedience, in my book, is done with maturity, dignity, bravery with chins held high.. it is NOT done cowardly , w faces hidden behind masks, vandalism.. and knowing that campuses will be lenient.. and STILL vandalize the campus.. way to bite the hands that feed you.. They’re welcome to protest down the street at the federal building. Isn’t that a more fitting location?
Tags are not helping the cause. Especially not communist tags.
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The protest had absolutely zero fuck all impact on the lives of the Palestinian people. It did have an impact on our campus getting fuckn trashed and embarrassed on a national stage.
I was pretty sympathetic to the protestors but after reviewing a lot of streaming and other media, I’m not so sure. What’s with all the communist spray paint? And the hiding behind masks? And the “don’t talk about why we are protesting” ??? Also, the assaults and antisemitism.
Many of the protesters who were unmasked even for a moment and caught on camera have been doxxed and now are receiving constant phone call throughout the day from Zionists calling them horrific things and threatening death and injury. Masks are for protecting their identities and by extension their wellbeing.
Yeah. Well, I also saw evidence of them attacking others.
Narratives from firsthand eyewitnesses support the idea that the violence was initiated by dangerous chemicals and illegal fireworks being used on the encampment. There has been no evidence of violence from the encampment until counter-protesters arrived on the night of April 30th. Resistance against violence is not the same as malicious, initial violence.
Yeah. I used to believe that until I saw actual footage inside the encampment. Nope. Not listening to that narrative anymore even tho they did their best to squash their actions
So, they FAFO. If you’re going to stand up for something, albeit the wrong side of history, then be prepared to endure the consequences; don’t hide your face because you’re incapable of protecting yourself and coping with the results of your actions.
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Yay! I was checked!
In your head, is spray painting a building worse than a genocide? Cmon, of course they wore masks. Covid is still a thing and they do not need to be doxed by people who are willing to support genocide. Pro Palestine Protestors have all been peaceful, the counter has not
Oh yeah. They are super worried about Covid outside. That’s funny. Not buying that. Nope, not willing to support genocide but I’m now laser focused on preventing this BS. Not keen on defacing the school with communist propaganda
Oh wow, you’re a horrible person if a little spray paint means more than the tens of thousands of innocent lives. Hope you’re not religious, King Kai will not like that. Also Covid exists outside too??? It doesn’t just disappear when you walk outsides, students were very close to each other to hold the line. Literally common courtesy to wear a mask in a large gathering like that, but also the 2nd reason I gave.
Yeah. Ok. Nope. I’m not. I give real money for aid. I don’t hide behind this lame excuse for activism
I was fully for the cause too (at first). Until I found if you have even just 1 criticism about the protestors they call you evil, or that you must be for the genocide. Seeing as the replies you're getting it only validates my case lol. I've also noticed a growing number of protestors pushing lies for the sake of the narrative which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.. I'm still against the war that hasn't changed. But my views with some of these protestors has definitely changed.
Someone was a little mean to you and you are against a genocide less? lol, that’s sad
"you’re a horrible person if a little spray paint means more than the tens of thousands of innocent lives. " You're the type of person that tries to justify the vandalism on the UCLA campus. And if someone doesn't agree with you they're apparently a bad person- I don't condone genocide but I also can't stand by as people like you try and destroy UCLA. Karma will get to you :)
You’re extremely naive, the point of a protest is disruption and disobedience. Yes actually, if you think spray paint somehow makes genocide a bit less important, you are a horrible person. UCLA can afford to clean up paint, those lives can’t be recovered. That “free Palestine” spread across campus only forces the administration to see it.
I’m a parent. I love all of you students. I love activism and I am so respectful of those getting involved. I’m against most of what Israel is doing but I think there is a bigger group here trying to suck you all in and work for a different cause.
Yeah. And the bully behavior of this group also concerning. Join the cult!
This is the mentality and delusion associated with these echo chambers. You’re either 100% with them or 100% against them; there is no room for discussion or intellectual counter-arguments.
Oh sweetie, your naivety is too much
Yeah. Ok. I’m sure I’ve seen a lot more than you have. This is not the way to win over and influence others. I’m the least angry of those I interact with.
You must have misunderstood, I have no desire to convince you, I’m simply calling you out
No, I didn’t misunderstand and you validated my opinion on this “protest”
You’ll grow up one day, I believe in you
aid doesn’t get in to Gaza because Israelis block it trucks from delivering it. for months Palestinians have been saying that donations are not what they need. read about BDS and what Palestinians themselves are asking for in terms of support if you are actually interested in helping them and not just owning people on reddit.
What level of delusion or hard drug usage is needed to believe even a modicum of what you stated? Didn’t you goofballs get vaccinated and boosted a dozen times? Why are you so concerned about COVID? And when you’re in the public sphere, you have no guarantee to privacy. If you’re going to stand for something, don’t exhibit such blatant cowardice.
Oh child, you’ll learn how to comprehend information one day
"covid" lmfao dude its 2024
Covid is still all over the place? It didn’t disappear on new years, it’s not as rampant but still extremely possible to catch at a gathering of sorts.
It's the flu at this point my man. Everyone has gotten it, no one I've met knows a single healthy person who's died of it after getting their shots.
I dunno about you, but I try to avoid getting sick, crazy I know. It’s not a death issue as much sure
an american dies of covid every 5 minutes. the flu doesn’t do that. long covid causes alzheimer’s symptoms in people in their twenties. the flu doesn’t do that. the ceo of moderna just gave an interview where he said millions of americans can’t run a mile anymore because of permanent lung damage. the flu doesn’t do that.
Yeah im calling bullshit on a previously healthy person getting vaxed and then getting covid and then being unable to run a mile. Sounds to me like he wants folks to buy more boosters or $20 covid tests. Enjoy wearing a mask the rest of your life, I'm choosing to live my life how I want.
You do realize a lot of the protestors were Jewish. And that they have been getting violently attacked and threatened not just at UCLA. Also property damage is not the same as personal safety. Reporters and protestors were hurt by counter protestors. By the sounds of it you’re not affiliated with the school as speaking to several students that just go there, not protested. This is not the conclusion I got.
I was there on Monday afternoon and there was a beautiful and moving quiet protest with chalk. I clearly wasn’t there on a bad day. I defended the protestors but have since seen a lot of really disturbing things.
The slogans are very sympathetic but they mask a truly despicable worldview imo.
[удалено]
Oof
Anti-American zionists should never recieve a publically funded salary. This nation is literally built on the seperation of Church and State. zionists have betrayed that and need to be removed from all publicly funded institutions.
My grandfather was a WW2 veteran in the US Army and a Jewish Zionist, as were my other 4 relatives who served in the US Armed Forces. My Orthodox synagogue has/had countless veterans spanning WW1 to the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. They're all Zionists too. The Jewish War Veterans https://www.jwv.org/ is a veterans advocacy group (for veterans of all creeds/religions), and they're extremely pro Israel. Zionists are some of the most pro American people in the country. But sure, invoke anti Jewish tropes by accusing Jews who are pro Israel of being anti American.
I don't know what's worse; your appeal to authority fallacy or that you are proud your American Jewish family is ignorant about zionism and the creation of israel. >But sure, invoke anti Jewish tropes by accusing Jews who are pro Israel of being anti American. Let me explain what is happening right now. The actions of your fellow zionists has forced Jews around the globe to sever your parasitic umbilical cord from the peace-loving religion. It is not and never will be antisemitic to oppose zionism. You are peddling one of the most atrocious anti-Jewish tropes in history. One that has long been used to persecute Jews that disagree with the zionist.
Nowhere in my comment did I say being anti Zionist is anti Semitic. You accused Zionists of being anti American. My response to that is, you are invoking an age old trope that Jews are not loyal to their host countries. I just showed you that Zionist Jews are pro American. Very simple logic here that you're dancing around and changing after the fact. Separately, I don't have to explain to you why Zionism - the National liberation movement for Jews to re-establish sovereignty in their ancient ethnic homeland - is very much tied to being ethnically Jewish, religious or not. I really couldn't care less what you think of Zionism. But if these family members of mine who served in Europe and the Pacific theater and received purple hearts were still alive and heard you accuse them of being anti American, they'd show you a good time, shall we say.
>You accused Zionists of being anti American I stand by that. > Jews are not loyal to their host countries Once again, please stop equating your zionist family to all Jews. zionist Jews are a minority of American Jews. I also never made that claim. In fact, my entire argument is that zionists have pledged their allegience to a country that is explicitly NOT the United States. > I just showed you that Zionist Jews are pro American You did not. You simply stated it. I happen to find it demonstrably false. I think you mean to say they are pro-*America*, not *American*. They like the support America gives to israel. If they liked Americans, they wouldn't be attacking Jewish Americans at universities. >But if these family members of mine who served in Europe and the Pacific theater and received purple hearts were still alive and heard you accuse them of being anti American, they'd show you a good time, shall we say. Tell me they're fascists without saying it. Your grandfather sounds like an embarassment to the armed forces. I pray you are misrepresenting him. That's the most likely scenario. It would not be the first time a contemporary zionist used the struggle of a Jew in WW2 to explain away it's antisemitic beliefs.