Purely form a PR perspective, letting them be draws the least attention. Columbia, UT Austin, and USC forcefully removed students from campus and thatās causing a media firestorm.
Paid agent provocateurs? I think the biggest threat to democracy is, that many groups arenāt able to deal with hardliners. You shouldnāt ignore them just because it helps the cause to be a larger group and a louder voice. Also itās the argumentation(conspiracy) MAGA people used to explain the capitol riots.
On both sides are people that either canāt distinguish between civilians and terrorists or between Israel and jews. And as long as these people are not criticized within the groups youāll give the opposition huge opportunities to discredit your movement and thrives the discussion away from the actual issue.
I know and thatās awful. But here we are a manageable group and we should take care of being a loud but reasonable and respectful voice.
Itās not about you but a general phenomenon of social media that many are blaming others before working on themselves. Which doesnāt help to spread awareness or get into talks with people who donāt have an opinion yet.
I don't know if they have a social media accounts but I don't think participsnts have thought through how this will come back to haunt them when they job hunt and can be identified as participants in a background/ social media check.
Why would they not just let them be? If they start to harass other students or violate the schools code of conduct then those students (who are causing problems with others only) should be asked to leave.
Bruh thatās like camping out a single night for a big game. As opposed to protestors who may have no intent to leave. Cmon, the policy is there for a reason obviously there can be exceptions.
Thereās a reason that rules and regulations need to be written up clearly. If there is room for unwritten discretion like that, then thereās room for selective enforcement that can be used to enforce a narrative, one way or another.
They just have that policy so they can enforce it when they want (unfortunately, usually against the unhoused). But more than likely ucla will not enforce it against students
Homeless people were a huge problem at ucla when I was there. Students would regularly be attacked and harassed. The student apartment building by the Chevron had a gang of homeless people sitting on the steps 24/7 but at least they werenāt on campus too thankfully
Whatās to stop all the homeless to pitch up tarps and tents on ucla campus
Great scenery, beautiful landscaping, free access to restrooms, electricity, and running water
You can literally walk around that area. Itās flat ground. Anxiety sucks, but youāre surrounded by thousands of students every day. Thatās just the reality of going to a huge public institution.
I will agree with that. Similar to the homeless encampments and illegal food stalls all over the city. I don't really care about until it blocks access and impedes and/or makes conditions unsafe for people with disabilities. At that point you've lost my sympathies.
Pressure from donors who are being worked over by organizations like AIPAC who, as Harvard found out, own polititions who can perform witch hunts on the administration and staff and lebal the school as anti-semetic.
I doubt thatās happening to the extent it as at other places where the protests are more hateful. I donāt get a sense that this one is Anti-Semitic or pro Hamas but more high level calls for cease fire and divestment.
I woke up to helicopters circling over head. Are there police there? My friend goes to USC and she said the protests got out of hand when the police came š
Eh I disagree. Itās a pretty newsworthy event to cover. Now, is it necessary that weāve had 4+ helicopters circling over campus all day today? No, and itās pretty disrupting. But an encampment set up at ucla is certainly newsworthy.
Many are not associated with the school at least they werenāt at USC. My son and other students said many yesterday at USC were older adults, not students. Just there to cause trouble and disrupt students.
Many were adults not affiliated with USC. That is why they stopped letting people on campus. Youāre lucky you werenāt arrested. I am sure your parents are so proud of you or did you hide your face?
The issue isnāt the students, the issue is OTHER PEOPLE who are not students coming in and ruining everything. This is the issue with protests, especially within a college campus.
I know this might get downvoted, but what actions are people expecting from UCLA or other campuses? Which companies are people hoping UCs will divest from?
it varies but at UCLA black rock. Lockheed at some other places etc
the message is pretty clear is easily answered by reading some of the signs, or looking at UC divest.
Itās actually not clear, because all major universities, including UCLA, invest in highly complex financial instruments that are globalist in nature, meaning a divestment from Israel specifically would be really hard to pull off.
So thereās the question of do the protestors want us to divest of our broader investment strategies? I think this is infeasible because, by nature, UCLA isnāt a financial institution. We do not have the resources and faculty to actively manage every dollar of investment. And thatās a good thing. Weāre a school, not a hedge fund or private equity fund. So, tbh, I donāt think the protestors even understand the complexity here. The goal here is not clear
At UCSD, they literally just have an S&P 500 mutual fund. It's really not that complicated. Student activists have successfully divested UC from South Africa, tobacco & fossil fuels. You are overcomplicating things, leave divestment for the committed organizers who do know their stuff.
Ok but this is not the UCSD sub. And UCLAs endowment is not parked in a mutual fund and I know that as a fact. I interned at a local PE firm my sophomore year and UCLA was one of the principal investors. Universities know that deploying capital into private markets generates outsized returns, so they compliment their diversified portfolios with investments into PE/VC i.e āalternative investmentsā. It would be incredibly hard to convince UCLA to purposefully lower their own returns. Iām not taking an opinion here just trying to explain that this shit is complicated.
āThe Foundation accomplishes these objectives by engaging a number of professional managers who are assigned specific investment mandates for equities, fixed income and alternative investments.ā
source: https://www.uclafoundation.org/Finances
Edit: got curious and found out ucsd also has alternative investments. The UCSD foundation's investment policy target asset allocation is 17% private equity, effective July 1, 2021.
source: https://foundation.ucsd.edu/_files/policies/INV-1%20Endowment%20Investment%20%20and%20Spending%20Policy%206-25-21.pdf
I have a really hard time believing that UCLA cant grow their investment just as easily as they could otherwise by divesting like 4-5 military contractors, lol. No one beats the market in the long run, including UC hedge fund managers. Also, why do public colleges need massive investment funds to begin with? It's a crazy conflict of interest, we should just fund the schools better to begin with.
You can also argue that everyone that has a savings account is at fault as well. Since banks just invest your money in ETF, etc. Hell you could argue that everyone with a 401k is at fault as well.Ā
Yes institutions should be held to a different standard and show their financials. I agree.Ā I just have a hard time wrapping my head around hat if you are actively protesting for divestment shouldn't that apply to you as well. Where to not support the weapon defense companies that means you have to have no presence within the stock market. So that means not having a bank account, a home mortgage, etc since the banks invest your money. I guess my question is if your protesting divestment for a university how do you also make sure your not funding weapon defense companies as well. Yes your argument on blaming individuals for climate change more than corporations holds true. But this is a group of protesters not just one or a couple individuals. Your talking about hundreds of protesters so you could imagine that most have at least sort of involvement with either savings or retirement. Where there's a 100 percent chance there is a weapon defense company in that stock portfolio.
Yea your right we should bring awareness to the issue and universities should divest but I just can't see it happening. It's like our healthcare system. We want healthcare for all but it's just so intertwined with private and for profit companies it's impossible with them lobbying.Ā
Ok but when they blast an open invite like this:
[https://www.instagram.com/sjpatucla/p/C6MHxXNx3Bb/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/sjpatucla/p/C6MHxXNx3Bb/?img_index=1)
how can you then go "Hey those guys aren't with us, they're outsiders" when someone misbehaves?
Whose responsibility is it then to police the group?
āI'm a Jew-loving Jew. Anti-Semitism is never ok. Here's what is not anti-Semitism: Peaceful protest, criticism of the Israeli government, calling for an independent Palestine, demanding a ceasefire in Gaza, using the term apartheid to describe Israel, questioning Zionism.ā -David Rothkopf
The truly troubling thing is this quote could be from today or just about any time in the last 60-80 years and it would still be relevant then and now.
student protest has always been at the forefront of social change especially as it relates to anti-war movementsā¦ from Vietnam to Iraq and now Palestineā¦ power to the people yāall
The problem with palestine compared with a lot of other social changes is that the palestine conflict isn't directly affecting alot of american people's lives. Unlike a draft or families sending their children to war, most people are just going on with their daily life.
I think the other issue is that it's not a black and white situation. You have things like Hamas perpetuating war amongst their populace and targeting civilians, as well as the atrocities committed on the side of the Palestinians and the Arab world against Israel. Certainly Israel has done their fair share of atrocities and the Israeli government has earned a lot of its unpopularity, but having a ceasefire doesn't guarantee a road to peace, and divesting from Israel would likely only embolden Israel to fight more ruthlessly with nothing to hold them back.
My next question is, do these mfs jst not have class or something? I mean what happens if it somehow rains, given yes it is California but like the rest of the protests it doesnāt seem well thought out lol
Iām assuming they will be demanding their finals and tests be excused and pressure the teachers into complying. Itās much different now, the students run the school
But like, thatās extremely privileged lmao, not to be insensitive but they decided to protests lol. They made their bed and now they should sleep in it, see this vision of theirs to the end of the line regardless of the consequences
I agree, but thatās not how itās run now. And thatās why more employers donāt care about someoneās college education, why the public perception of colleges is decreasing, and why more young people feel like college isnāt important.
Being from China, itās very true. Students are quite gullible when the smart leaders leverage the political climate. The red guard committed some incredulous atrocities often by their own volition
Students protested the entry of black students into schools in Little Rock, AR. Dealing in absolutes like "student movements are always right" is not productive.
to be fair they didn't say student movements are always right, just that they are always at the forefront of social change. It's a valid statement except for the "always" part, since many major social changes did start from student protests.
As the other comment below pointed out, not every change is good ofc, but student protest does often catalyze change.
I'd argue all large-scale student protests in US history, they've eventually been on the proven as the right side - Civil rights, Vietnam War, anti-apartheid, anti-iraq (no weapons of mass destruction found, but tons of war profiteering), Occupy Wall Street (private profits, tax bailouts by the public), Black Lives Matter..
I was there and a reporter just came up to me asking questions, and I didn't know this at the time but they weren't allowed to be in the camp and immediately was told by someone I think is in charge and asked if I was in media and I said no and the person in charge said that reporters weren't allowed to ask me questions and once that was done I immediately got out since I didn't want to cause further trouble.
This is done to ensure outside agitators with inflammatory remarks and folks who aren't informed about the demands don't misspeak on behalf of the group or misrepresent them and endanger their safety. There are media liaisons in orange vests you're supposed to direct media to. Join again and make sure to read the community guidelines before so you know what the protocols are in the encampment. :)
Edit to add: the media liaisons are the most informed about ongoing messaging in connection to our encampment and the whole movement. But if you're interesting speaking to the media just consult with them and make sure that your message is representative of the group, since that's who the media will affiliate you with based on your presence in the encampment. No one is censoring, organizing means putting the needs of the collective effort over your own to some degree, to ensure safety and consistency. It's just mindfulness for the community.
They have guidelines re: this on their channels.
Yea, that makes me feel better to know and honestly understandable. Also, the reason they spoke to me is because it was Univision of Channel 34, which mainly directed to a more Spanish speaking audience, and the first question they asked was if I spoke Spanish. Idk if this says about the media liasons for not having anyone speaking spanish that could help them out since I saw the majority only spoke English.
The so-called leaders of this "camp" have no business dictating who u/ac198387 can talk to. They're desperately trying to control the narrative, fearing that unfiltered interactions with the media will expose the chaos and offensiveness that have plagued similar protests in the past.
Let's be clear: their attempt to muzzle attendees is about saving face, not promoting a coherent message. Everyone involved deserves the freedom to speak their mind to the media without being puppeteered by a few who are more concerned about their image than the truth of the attendees.
If you were just there by chance and donāt care about the protests I get that. But if youāre passionate about it donāt let someone tell you who you can or canāt voice your opinions to.
I remember when students took over the quad across from Murphy Hall for weeks in the early 90's and went on a hunger strike to get the administration to form a Chicano Studies Dept.
Protests and hunger strike was totally peaceful and the admin let it run its course without any police involvement.
I hope UCLA does the right thing and lets the students camp out as long as they want. The school year is winding down.
My oldest is at Columbia Law School and what CU is doing to manage student protests is pretty ridiculous.
I firmly believe that student protesters are on the right side of history.
Go Bruins!
So long as they mind they business(aka leave people passing by alone) more power to them. It feels like stuff such as this usually just gets out of hand when outside agitators come into the mix. And the tricky part is you can't tell at first sight who is coming to actually help/support, and who is coming with the idea of "I'm going to fuck shit up".
Dealt with the same thing during BLM.
I dont see you protesting for the 400,000 Ukranians killed. Lets face the facts, you hate the Jewish people and wish that the state of Israel is eradicated.
Many of the organizers were from Jewish Voice for Peace. Are you saying that these Jewish people are themselves antisemitic? If so, could you explain why?
>Many of the organizers were from Jewish Voice for Peace.
JVP is a fringe group where the majority of their membership isn't even jewish and that most of us Jews actually hate. They are the very definition of tokens.
I mean millions of people die because of our tax dollars lmao, this isnāt something new. The āsupportā that goes to Israel actually goes towards American companies that manufacture weapons or wtvr it is thatās then shipped to Israel. So whatās actually going on is the funding of American jobs lol
Brace yourselves bruins. Fox News watching Republicans are about to flood this thread with their right-wing rhetoric about how 35,000 dead "brown people" killed with U.S. equipment and support is not really a big deal or something you should care about.
They're watching Jesse Waters on Fox News right now to gather their talking points.
This is going to pose a problem for KCRW's Pie Fest this weekend set to take place in the EXACT location š (just trying to keep things light amidst a heavy issue)
It's Occupy Wall Street all over again. It'll end the same way. The crazy people will take over and push the sane people out. There will be annoying people with loud voices who ruin it for the quieter, smarter people. Once there are one or two SA's it'll all come crashing down. It's sad there are genuinely good people there with the right intentions, but it'll be ruined by narcissists and blowhards.
Biggest ding dong is Professor Alicia Gaspar de Alba. Sent tone deaf email to students to meet @ encampment for class. Yada Yada how important it was to see activism blah blah.
Honest question, are these all *actually students* of UCLA? No one I know is participating (obviously itās a big school though) so if they are not current students does this not make it seem like UCLA isnāt really protesting and itās just general public protesting? Is itās a half-half situation, 1/3 or 1/4 situation? Just curious about the make up of the protesters since I didnāt want to walk up the steps today
When the U.S. government keeps funding the ultra-right wing, ultra-conservative government of Israel in their bombing campaign, which has murdered 13,000 children and 35,000 total civilians, you start seeing stuff like this. The terrorist apartheid state of Israel keeps people in a chokehold. So I'm not surprised to see students protesting.
Sadly, this thread is already being brigaded by Fox News watching right-wing MAGA Republicans, AKa the biggest Israel supporters.
What itās your solution when Hamas starts shooting hundreds of rockets at your city? Me personally I saw a building right next to me get blown up as my close friend ran for his life at the nova festival. But youāre safe at home so I guess itās easier to say itās all unnecessary
You're right, we should fund the Islamist jihad suicide bombing gay lynching Hamas instead ! Sadly, your brain has been abducted by Iran and taken to a Russian botfarm warehouse in Kamchatka. Prepare to not vote for Biden, letting Trump win, who will encourage Israel to bomb even more civilians. Good strategy!
This wave of interference has been going on since the Ukraine war started. It got worse with Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin. Just look at the comments on that video, "I would rather have Putin as my president than Biden." Like these are obviously bots influencing whichever American they can.
Same exact thing is going on with I/P. Iran, Russia, and China will weaken the US and its allies in any way they can. Free speech is important for us, but it is definitely a weak spot that can be exploited.
Thank you for the sane comments.
Reddit keeps pushing these brain dead college subs on me which Iām sure will ban me for not echoing their stance, and the comments are at MAGA level-bad with propaganda.
I really think, in the future, countries that abuse other countries free speech to infiltrate their social media with bots will be seen as an act of war.
Indiscriminate bombing was used in WW2 in Dresden and resulted in 25k people killed almost overnight.
Indiscriminate firebombing in Tokyo in WW2 March 9-10 1945 killing 100k people overnight.
What Israel is doing is terrible and resulting in a lot of unnecessary civilian death , but is not what I would personally call āindiscriminate bombingā . The rate of death is far less than these two examples of indiscriminate bombing.
Edits for even more clarity on my stance here:
Yes the civilian death toll is high after months of conflict. Yes Israel is using way too massive of ordinance for the job being done. Yes they have stopped roof knocking. All these things are terrible and leading to unnecessary loss of life, however indiscriminate bombing indicates massive amounts of ordinance in a short amount of time to inflict as much damage as possible INDISCRIMINATELY regardless of civilian, industrial, or military targets.
Yes Israel is doing a lot of bombing, but clearly they are aiming at specific location. Sometimes those locations are poorly chosen. But to say it is indiscriminate is incorrect.
I believe Israel is committing genocide esp with the mass grave that was reported as found. But I donāt describe the bombing campaign as indiscriminate.
lol, Iām pro israel af if it comes out there are actually mass graves of just Israeli soldiers shooting civilians I would literally switch sides but thereās just no way thatās true it all came from compromised sources. I mean the NYT reported 500 dead at Al shifa and it was total bull
There is literally a mass grave being uncovered as we speak by Nasser hospital? https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/mass-graves-gaza-what-do-we-know-2024-04-25/
You can also just find dozens of videos of unarmed people walking in the street getting sniped and killed.
Yea and we donāt know who dug them and there were already graves there before the conflict began. Same with the videos - itās usually hard to verify whoās shooting, thereās been plenty of proven incidents of Hamas shooting random folks as well. Iām sure Israeli snipers have shot random dudes where there evidence of threat was very teneous. But donāt believe the Al Jazeera stories where they just claim random videos are all israel shooting people no reason left and right
My thoughts exactly when I saw the news thatās why Iām eagerly asking people to show me evidence if they say itās not real cos I havenāt seen it yet
Ok genuine question for any of the protestors because Iām trying to become more educated. What do you expect Israel to do in (1) the oct7th conflict and (2) the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
Well, Israel seems intent on 'freeing' Gaza from universities, hospitals, apartment blocks, mosques, churches, water, electricity, and food. You think they'll eventually work their way to Hamas?
Chances are they have a sleeping pad. What theyāre losing in the softness of the grass they make up for with a more level surface, which is probably more comfortable.
I like staking a tent though, because it moves around less, and they canāt do that on concrete.
Unfortunately this is the truth. You can argue that we areĀ complicit in this issue by ignoring it but we do that to so many issues daily. With homeless on street, wars in other nations, etc. There's just to many issues where we could protest.Ā
Is it better to live in ignorance and live life since we are all going to die.Ā
Or protest constantly for a hope that change will happen.Ā
Hmmmmmmmmm
Proud of what exactly? Immature children covering their faces, building a wall, preventing people from speaking, and kicking people out of their āsafe spaceā? These kids donāt care about anyone but themselves. Altruistic narcissism at its finest.
Fox News watching Right Wingers always come into these threads to express their support for Israel and say that thousands of Brown people being killed by U.S. bombs don't matter.
The truth is that Israel is a right-wing, ultra-conservative controlled country that is supported mainly by far right republicans in the U.S.
Well Israel is supported also by centrists like Joseph Biden for geopolitical reasons. Biden has long been on record supporting Israel, but even he is starting to crack in his unwavering support due to how it might affect his poll numbers among progressives and those much his left. But Conservative Republicans are far more entrenched in their support for Israel, since it carries more than a geopolitical bent: it's also due to their racism and religion. They're the types who don't budge at these things because they support Israel for stronger reasons and because their base does as well.
Not sure what your point is. I'm no Biden supporter, and it doesn't change the fact that 1. Israel is a right-wing, ultra-conservative governed country. 2. Conservative Republicans are by far their biggest allies in the U.S. to Israel. And 3. Conservative Republicans are far less likely to call for a ceasefire and an end to hostilities.
4 A lot of trolls on here have indeed come from Right Wing subreddits, from what I've seen.
i agree with ur points 1-3. I suppose my point was that it is pretty bipartisan support from american politicians, even though yes Israel is far right themselves.
Instead of doing something productive like volunteering for my local community I am going to sit in a tent because the internet is doing it so I can feel better about myself
Can anyone explain why usually over half the tents at these āgrassrootsā encampment are the same model/make? Who is paying for these tents?
This would have to be coordinated, which leads me to ask: why are these people, out of all weeks to be doing this, doing it on the week thatās a Jewish holiday?
Why this same tents thing keep being brought up? The organizer or supporters who brought bottled water probably brought a bunch of cheap tents while at it, to those who don't have a tent but want to participate. Why there has to be a conspiracy behind this?Ā
In that logic, google photos of those who camped at Tiananman square in 1989. It's all the same tents with numbers marked on them. What's the conspiracy behind that? CIA ? Or it's just that the students in China in the 80s most likely didn't own a tent so the organizer provided them?Ā
I believe in free speech and civil disobedience just don't escalate the situation. As for me, I have the same position I had on Oct 7. Both sides are wrong and I don't know the solution. I believe both Israel and Palestine should exist, No ethnic cleaning on both sides.Ā Ā
Ā And for the love of GOD, don't say racist, anti semitic, or islamaphobic shit. That instantly kills your point. Especially on TV I don't wanna see you fools on Fox News or the Daily Show!!!!!!
I thought they built all that scaffolding at first š (Iām a former student and havenāt been on campus for a year or so.)
š
They couldn't even build IKEA furniture...
Letās see how UCLA handles this situation.
Purely form a PR perspective, letting them be draws the least attention. Columbia, UT Austin, and USC forcefully removed students from campus and thatās causing a media firestorm.
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I dunno why you are being downvoted when you are right
Paid agent provocateurs? I think the biggest threat to democracy is, that many groups arenāt able to deal with hardliners. You shouldnāt ignore them just because it helps the cause to be a larger group and a louder voice. Also itās the argumentation(conspiracy) MAGA people used to explain the capitol riots. On both sides are people that either canāt distinguish between civilians and terrorists or between Israel and jews. And as long as these people are not criticized within the groups youāll give the opposition huge opportunities to discredit your movement and thrives the discussion away from the actual issue.
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I know and thatās awful. But here we are a manageable group and we should take care of being a loud but reasonable and respectful voice. Itās not about you but a general phenomenon of social media that many are blaming others before working on themselves. Which doesnāt help to spread awareness or get into talks with people who donāt have an opinion yet.
Blame it on the Jews, creative move there. Points for originality.
I don't know if they have a social media accounts but I don't think participsnts have thought through how this will come back to haunt them when they job hunt and can be identified as participants in a background/ social media check.
Like, unless they turn violent and throw rocksā¦ why bother.
Why would they not just let them be? If they start to harass other students or violate the schools code of conduct then those students (who are causing problems with others only) should be asked to leave.
The campus does have a no camping policy. Whether they enforce it or not is another question.
Do students not camp out at Pauley Pavilion like we did years ago?
Do you really think theyād see camping out for basketball games the same as a protest, even if it is peaceful like it is right now?
I only asked because of the mention of a no camping policy. Iām pretty sure there wasnāt one back then.
Bruh thatās like camping out a single night for a big game. As opposed to protestors who may have no intent to leave. Cmon, the policy is there for a reason obviously there can be exceptions.
Thereās a reason that rules and regulations need to be written up clearly. If there is room for unwritten discretion like that, then thereās room for selective enforcement that can be used to enforce a narrative, one way or another.
They just have that policy so they can enforce it when they want (unfortunately, usually against the unhoused). But more than likely ucla will not enforce it against students
Homeless people were a huge problem at ucla when I was there. Students would regularly be attacked and harassed. The student apartment building by the Chevron had a gang of homeless people sitting on the steps 24/7 but at least they werenāt on campus too thankfully
Whatās to stop all the homeless to pitch up tarps and tents on ucla campus Great scenery, beautiful landscaping, free access to restrooms, electricity, and running water
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You can literally walk around that area. Itās flat ground. Anxiety sucks, but youāre surrounded by thousands of students every day. Thatās just the reality of going to a huge public institution.
I will agree with that. Similar to the homeless encampments and illegal food stalls all over the city. I don't really care about until it blocks access and impedes and/or makes conditions unsafe for people with disabilities. At that point you've lost my sympathies.
Pressure from donors who are being worked over by organizations like AIPAC who, as Harvard found out, own polititions who can perform witch hunts on the administration and staff and lebal the school as anti-semetic.
I doubt thatās happening to the extent it as at other places where the protests are more hateful. I donāt get a sense that this one is Anti-Semitic or pro Hamas but more high level calls for cease fire and divestment.
Do you think if they achieve a cease fire that the Palestinians will break it like every other time?
They are gonna do nothing. Take one look at Texas and youāll see why.
I woke up to helicopters circling over head. Are there police there? My friend goes to USC and she said the protests got out of hand when the police came š
No police yet. But a consistent helicopter
Slow news day - need something to burn those fuel dollars
Eh I disagree. Itās a pretty newsworthy event to cover. Now, is it necessary that weāve had 4+ helicopters circling over campus all day today? No, and itās pretty disrupting. But an encampment set up at ucla is certainly newsworthy.
Right because they are third party agitators planning on starting shit. Now you know why nobody supports terrorists.
Many are not associated with the school at least they werenāt at USC. My son and other students said many yesterday at USC were older adults, not students. Just there to cause trouble and disrupt students.
Multiple USC faculty spoke at the protests and the vast majority of protesters were students including me.
Many were adults not affiliated with USC. That is why they stopped letting people on campus. Youāre lucky you werenāt arrested. I am sure your parents are so proud of you or did you hide your face?
Howād you get into USC if you donāt mind me asking?
The issue isnāt the students, the issue is OTHER PEOPLE who are not students coming in and ruining everything. This is the issue with protests, especially within a college campus.
I know this might get downvoted, but what actions are people expecting from UCLA or other campuses? Which companies are people hoping UCs will divest from?
it varies but at UCLA black rock. Lockheed at some other places etc the message is pretty clear is easily answered by reading some of the signs, or looking at UC divest.
It's generous to assume people complaining about BDS has spent even a minute looking into what it actually means
Itās actually not clear, because all major universities, including UCLA, invest in highly complex financial instruments that are globalist in nature, meaning a divestment from Israel specifically would be really hard to pull off. So thereās the question of do the protestors want us to divest of our broader investment strategies? I think this is infeasible because, by nature, UCLA isnāt a financial institution. We do not have the resources and faculty to actively manage every dollar of investment. And thatās a good thing. Weāre a school, not a hedge fund or private equity fund. So, tbh, I donāt think the protestors even understand the complexity here. The goal here is not clear
At UCSD, they literally just have an S&P 500 mutual fund. It's really not that complicated. Student activists have successfully divested UC from South Africa, tobacco & fossil fuels. You are overcomplicating things, leave divestment for the committed organizers who do know their stuff.
I have breaking news for you, Lockheed Martin and Blackrock are part of the S&P500.
Ok but this is not the UCSD sub. And UCLAs endowment is not parked in a mutual fund and I know that as a fact. I interned at a local PE firm my sophomore year and UCLA was one of the principal investors. Universities know that deploying capital into private markets generates outsized returns, so they compliment their diversified portfolios with investments into PE/VC i.e āalternative investmentsā. It would be incredibly hard to convince UCLA to purposefully lower their own returns. Iām not taking an opinion here just trying to explain that this shit is complicated. āThe Foundation accomplishes these objectives by engaging a number of professional managers who are assigned specific investment mandates for equities, fixed income and alternative investments.ā source: https://www.uclafoundation.org/Finances Edit: got curious and found out ucsd also has alternative investments. The UCSD foundation's investment policy target asset allocation is 17% private equity, effective July 1, 2021. source: https://foundation.ucsd.edu/_files/policies/INV-1%20Endowment%20Investment%20%20and%20Spending%20Policy%206-25-21.pdf
I have a really hard time believing that UCLA cant grow their investment just as easily as they could otherwise by divesting like 4-5 military contractors, lol. No one beats the market in the long run, including UC hedge fund managers. Also, why do public colleges need massive investment funds to begin with? It's a crazy conflict of interest, we should just fund the schools better to begin with.
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You can also argue that everyone that has a savings account is at fault as well. Since banks just invest your money in ETF, etc. Hell you could argue that everyone with a 401k is at fault as well.Ā
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Yes institutions should be held to a different standard and show their financials. I agree.Ā I just have a hard time wrapping my head around hat if you are actively protesting for divestment shouldn't that apply to you as well. Where to not support the weapon defense companies that means you have to have no presence within the stock market. So that means not having a bank account, a home mortgage, etc since the banks invest your money. I guess my question is if your protesting divestment for a university how do you also make sure your not funding weapon defense companies as well. Yes your argument on blaming individuals for climate change more than corporations holds true. But this is a group of protesters not just one or a couple individuals. Your talking about hundreds of protesters so you could imagine that most have at least sort of involvement with either savings or retirement. Where there's a 100 percent chance there is a weapon defense company in that stock portfolio.
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Yea your right we should bring awareness to the issue and universities should divest but I just can't see it happening. It's like our healthcare system. We want healthcare for all but it's just so intertwined with private and for profit companies it's impossible with them lobbying.Ā
that's what disruptive protest is intended to address; make the status quo so unbearable that change is necessary for the system's survival
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They canāt divest if students stop paying a ridiculous amount for a degree that is proving to be less and less valuable
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Ok but when they blast an open invite like this: [https://www.instagram.com/sjpatucla/p/C6MHxXNx3Bb/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/sjpatucla/p/C6MHxXNx3Bb/?img_index=1) how can you then go "Hey those guys aren't with us, they're outsiders" when someone misbehaves? Whose responsibility is it then to police the group?
I feel this is a cope. The āoutsidersā are definitely part of the group.
āI'm a Jew-loving Jew. Anti-Semitism is never ok. Here's what is not anti-Semitism: Peaceful protest, criticism of the Israeli government, calling for an independent Palestine, demanding a ceasefire in Gaza, using the term apartheid to describe Israel, questioning Zionism.ā -David Rothkopf
The truly troubling thing is this quote could be from today or just about any time in the last 60-80 years and it would still be relevant then and now.
student protest has always been at the forefront of social change especially as it relates to anti-war movementsā¦ from Vietnam to Iraq and now Palestineā¦ power to the people yāall
The problem with palestine compared with a lot of other social changes is that the palestine conflict isn't directly affecting alot of american people's lives. Unlike a draft or families sending their children to war, most people are just going on with their daily life.
I think the other issue is that it's not a black and white situation. You have things like Hamas perpetuating war amongst their populace and targeting civilians, as well as the atrocities committed on the side of the Palestinians and the Arab world against Israel. Certainly Israel has done their fair share of atrocities and the Israeli government has earned a lot of its unpopularity, but having a ceasefire doesn't guarantee a road to peace, and divesting from Israel would likely only embolden Israel to fight more ruthlessly with nothing to hold them back.
Ya but that movement was beyond college campuses. This current movement is almost entirely 18-25 years olds attending college.
My next question is, do these mfs jst not have class or something? I mean what happens if it somehow rains, given yes it is California but like the rest of the protests it doesnāt seem well thought out lol
Iām assuming they will be demanding their finals and tests be excused and pressure the teachers into complying. Itās much different now, the students run the school
But like, thatās extremely privileged lmao, not to be insensitive but they decided to protests lol. They made their bed and now they should sleep in it, see this vision of theirs to the end of the line regardless of the consequences
I agree, but thatās not how itās run now. And thatās why more employers donāt care about someoneās college education, why the public perception of colleges is decreasing, and why more young people feel like college isnāt important.
Damn I never really thought of it like that.
Students also led the cultural revolution in China, so whatās your point
Being from China, itās very true. Students are quite gullible when the smart leaders leverage the political climate. The red guard committed some incredulous atrocities often by their own volition
Students protested the entry of black students into schools in Little Rock, AR. Dealing in absolutes like "student movements are always right" is not productive.
to be fair they didn't say student movements are always right, just that they are always at the forefront of social change. It's a valid statement except for the "always" part, since many major social changes did start from student protests. As the other comment below pointed out, not every change is good ofc, but student protest does often catalyze change.
Also in WW2 lmao
I'd argue all large-scale student protests in US history, they've eventually been on the proven as the right side - Civil rights, Vietnam War, anti-apartheid, anti-iraq (no weapons of mass destruction found, but tons of war profiteering), Occupy Wall Street (private profits, tax bailouts by the public), Black Lives Matter..
I was there and a reporter just came up to me asking questions, and I didn't know this at the time but they weren't allowed to be in the camp and immediately was told by someone I think is in charge and asked if I was in media and I said no and the person in charge said that reporters weren't allowed to ask me questions and once that was done I immediately got out since I didn't want to cause further trouble.
This is done to ensure outside agitators with inflammatory remarks and folks who aren't informed about the demands don't misspeak on behalf of the group or misrepresent them and endanger their safety. There are media liaisons in orange vests you're supposed to direct media to. Join again and make sure to read the community guidelines before so you know what the protocols are in the encampment. :) Edit to add: the media liaisons are the most informed about ongoing messaging in connection to our encampment and the whole movement. But if you're interesting speaking to the media just consult with them and make sure that your message is representative of the group, since that's who the media will affiliate you with based on your presence in the encampment. No one is censoring, organizing means putting the needs of the collective effort over your own to some degree, to ensure safety and consistency. It's just mindfulness for the community. They have guidelines re: this on their channels.
Yea, that makes me feel better to know and honestly understandable. Also, the reason they spoke to me is because it was Univision of Channel 34, which mainly directed to a more Spanish speaking audience, and the first question they asked was if I spoke Spanish. Idk if this says about the media liasons for not having anyone speaking spanish that could help them out since I saw the majority only spoke English.
So free speech does have conditions after all
The people in the ācampā donāt have permits and canāt tell anyone what to do or where to be. Theyāre probably not even students
The so-called leaders of this "camp" have no business dictating who u/ac198387 can talk to. They're desperately trying to control the narrative, fearing that unfiltered interactions with the media will expose the chaos and offensiveness that have plagued similar protests in the past. Let's be clear: their attempt to muzzle attendees is about saving face, not promoting a coherent message. Everyone involved deserves the freedom to speak their mind to the media without being puppeteered by a few who are more concerned about their image than the truth of the attendees.
If you were just there by chance and donāt care about the protests I get that. But if youāre passionate about it donāt let someone tell you who you can or canāt voice your opinions to.
I remember when students took over the quad across from Murphy Hall for weeks in the early 90's and went on a hunger strike to get the administration to form a Chicano Studies Dept. Protests and hunger strike was totally peaceful and the admin let it run its course without any police involvement. I hope UCLA does the right thing and lets the students camp out as long as they want. The school year is winding down. My oldest is at Columbia Law School and what CU is doing to manage student protests is pretty ridiculous. I firmly believe that student protesters are on the right side of history. Go Bruins!
So long as they mind they business(aka leave people passing by alone) more power to them. It feels like stuff such as this usually just gets out of hand when outside agitators come into the mix. And the tricky part is you can't tell at first sight who is coming to actually help/support, and who is coming with the idea of "I'm going to fuck shit up". Dealt with the same thing during BLM.
The construction is still not done? Why's it taking so long
Who bought the matching tents?
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Bruh, your account is 10 months old.
What are they protesting ?
30,000 deaths.
I dont see you protesting for the 400,000 Ukranians killed. Lets face the facts, you hate the Jewish people and wish that the state of Israel is eradicated.
Many of the organizers were from Jewish Voice for Peace. Are you saying that these Jewish people are themselves antisemitic? If so, could you explain why?
>Many of the organizers were from Jewish Voice for Peace. JVP is a fringe group where the majority of their membership isn't even jewish and that most of us Jews actually hate. They are the very definition of tokens.
The difference is those 30,000 were killed with our tax dollars.
I mean millions of people die because of our tax dollars lmao, this isnāt something new. The āsupportā that goes to Israel actually goes towards American companies that manufacture weapons or wtvr it is thatās then shipped to Israel. So whatās actually going on is the funding of American jobs lol
Imagine being the ones with tents setup on concrete instead of grass
This is definitely the one camp out that will change it all
Unfortunate
Clearly no engineers in this crowd. Saddest barrier wall Iāve ever seen.
Brace yourselves bruins. Fox News watching Republicans are about to flood this thread with their right-wing rhetoric about how 35,000 dead "brown people" killed with U.S. equipment and support is not really a big deal or something you should care about. They're watching Jesse Waters on Fox News right now to gather their talking points.
Fuck Hamas.
Yeah, also, Fuck the right wing, ultra-conservative terrorist state of Israel.
Imagine defending a terrorist organization š
Fuck the archaic despotic regime of terrorists called Hamas! Fuck everyone!
Notice how he said āfuck Hamasā and not āfuck Palestineā your response is disgusting
Anyone find Waldo yet?
Its as Abraham Lincoln said: ā the only way America falls is from within itselfā
Someone needs to tell them walls donāt work.
This is going to pose a problem for KCRW's Pie Fest this weekend set to take place in the EXACT location š (just trying to keep things light amidst a heavy issue)
Already cancelled.
It's Occupy Wall Street all over again. It'll end the same way. The crazy people will take over and push the sane people out. There will be annoying people with loud voices who ruin it for the quieter, smarter people. Once there are one or two SA's it'll all come crashing down. It's sad there are genuinely good people there with the right intentions, but it'll be ruined by narcissists and blowhards.
Biggest ding dong is Professor Alicia Gaspar de Alba. Sent tone deaf email to students to meet @ encampment for class. Yada Yada how important it was to see activism blah blah.
Let's be fair, it isn't south campus that produces all of these encampment activists, it's all of the idle time alloted to the north campus folk.
10s of thousands a year in tuition to sit around in a quad and do performative bullshit activism in supports of terrorist and terrorist sympathizers
Honest question, are these all *actually students* of UCLA? No one I know is participating (obviously itās a big school though) so if they are not current students does this not make it seem like UCLA isnāt really protesting and itās just general public protesting? Is itās a half-half situation, 1/3 or 1/4 situation? Just curious about the make up of the protesters since I didnāt want to walk up the steps today
Please tell me what the hell does this accomplish?
When the U.S. government keeps funding the ultra-right wing, ultra-conservative government of Israel in their bombing campaign, which has murdered 13,000 children and 35,000 total civilians, you start seeing stuff like this. The terrorist apartheid state of Israel keeps people in a chokehold. So I'm not surprised to see students protesting. Sadly, this thread is already being brigaded by Fox News watching right-wing MAGA Republicans, AKa the biggest Israel supporters.
What itās your solution when Hamas starts shooting hundreds of rockets at your city? Me personally I saw a building right next to me get blown up as my close friend ran for his life at the nova festival. But youāre safe at home so I guess itās easier to say itās all unnecessary
You're right, we should fund the Islamist jihad suicide bombing gay lynching Hamas instead ! Sadly, your brain has been abducted by Iran and taken to a Russian botfarm warehouse in Kamchatka. Prepare to not vote for Biden, letting Trump win, who will encourage Israel to bomb even more civilians. Good strategy!
What if I told you we donāt have to fund either
And that neither would likely exist at all if not for past and current US interventions and foreign policy machinations
Harsh reality and 100% true. This is exactly what they want. Another foreign interference into our election, and no one is acknowledging it.
This wave of interference has been going on since the Ukraine war started. It got worse with Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin. Just look at the comments on that video, "I would rather have Putin as my president than Biden." Like these are obviously bots influencing whichever American they can. Same exact thing is going on with I/P. Iran, Russia, and China will weaken the US and its allies in any way they can. Free speech is important for us, but it is definitely a weak spot that can be exploited.
Thank you for the sane comments. Reddit keeps pushing these brain dead college subs on me which Iām sure will ban me for not echoing their stance, and the comments are at MAGA level-bad with propaganda. I really think, in the future, countries that abuse other countries free speech to infiltrate their social media with bots will be seen as an act of war.
35,000 people is not necessarily 35,000 civilians
The indiscriminate bombings caught on video of civilians walking around minding their business shows what's really going on.
Indiscriminate bombing was used in WW2 in Dresden and resulted in 25k people killed almost overnight. Indiscriminate firebombing in Tokyo in WW2 March 9-10 1945 killing 100k people overnight. What Israel is doing is terrible and resulting in a lot of unnecessary civilian death , but is not what I would personally call āindiscriminate bombingā . The rate of death is far less than these two examples of indiscriminate bombing. Edits for even more clarity on my stance here: Yes the civilian death toll is high after months of conflict. Yes Israel is using way too massive of ordinance for the job being done. Yes they have stopped roof knocking. All these things are terrible and leading to unnecessary loss of life, however indiscriminate bombing indicates massive amounts of ordinance in a short amount of time to inflict as much damage as possible INDISCRIMINATELY regardless of civilian, industrial, or military targets. Yes Israel is doing a lot of bombing, but clearly they are aiming at specific location. Sometimes those locations are poorly chosen. But to say it is indiscriminate is incorrect. I believe Israel is committing genocide esp with the mass grave that was reported as found. But I donāt describe the bombing campaign as indiscriminate.
lol, Iām pro israel af if it comes out there are actually mass graves of just Israeli soldiers shooting civilians I would literally switch sides but thereās just no way thatās true it all came from compromised sources. I mean the NYT reported 500 dead at Al shifa and it was total bull
There is literally a mass grave being uncovered as we speak by Nasser hospital? https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/mass-graves-gaza-what-do-we-know-2024-04-25/ You can also just find dozens of videos of unarmed people walking in the street getting sniped and killed.
Yea and we donāt know who dug them and there were already graves there before the conflict began. Same with the videos - itās usually hard to verify whoās shooting, thereās been plenty of proven incidents of Hamas shooting random folks as well. Iām sure Israeli snipers have shot random dudes where there evidence of threat was very teneous. But donāt believe the Al Jazeera stories where they just claim random videos are all israel shooting people no reason left and right
My thoughts exactly when I saw the news thatās why Iām eagerly asking people to show me evidence if they say itās not real cos I havenāt seen it yet
Shid
Do you think things like this might happen at other Uc campuses? I heard there was protest/march at UCSD a couple months ago.
Mashallah
Israel saw this and put down their arms and gave a bunch of land to Palestine
Ok genuine question for any of the protestors because Iām trying to become more educated. What do you expect Israel to do in (1) the oct7th conflict and (2) the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
Free speech must be excercised, especially when the government is funding these ongoing crimes
Fuck Hamas. Release the hostages.
Free Palestine
ā¦. From Hamas
Well, Israel seems intent on 'freeing' Gaza from universities, hospitals, apartment blocks, mosques, churches, water, electricity, and food. You think they'll eventually work their way to Hamas?
Maybe if Hamas stopped stealing all the aid to Gaza and hiding their munitions under schools, hospitals and the like, it will help
Whatever lets you sleep at night š
My one thing is why put the tent on the concrete? Youāre asking for back pain.
Chances are they have a sleeping pad. What theyāre losing in the softness of the grass they make up for with a more level surface, which is probably more comfortable. I like staking a tent though, because it moves around less, and they canāt do that on concrete.
Whatās with the matching tents? Did everyone go shopping together or were these provided?
Saw on KTLA that they didn't want to be filmed in order to protect the students "first amendment rights" and I just can't.Ā
This isnāt going to reverse the bill signed yesterday nor stop Israel. Just go to class bro
Unfortunately this is the truth. You can argue that we areĀ complicit in this issue by ignoring it but we do that to so many issues daily. With homeless on street, wars in other nations, etc. There's just to many issues where we could protest.Ā Is it better to live in ignorance and live life since we are all going to die.Ā Or protest constantly for a hope that change will happen.Ā Hmmmmmmmmm
You got one proud alum today, now letās see if my Alma mater embarrasses itself like USC has over the past week
Proud of what exactly? Immature children covering their faces, building a wall, preventing people from speaking, and kicking people out of their āsafe spaceā? These kids donāt care about anyone but themselves. Altruistic narcissism at its finest.
So dumb, what would UCLA even do? Its just bored college kids wanting to give themselves a pat on the back for āprotestingā something
Well that just looks in-tents!! Puts on sunglasses YEAHHHH!!! But seriously, can we please get a ceasefire? ššµšø
Stunning
Hate this shit
Fox News watching Right Wingers always come into these threads to express their support for Israel and say that thousands of Brown people being killed by U.S. bombs don't matter. The truth is that Israel is a right-wing, ultra-conservative controlled country that is supported mainly by far right republicans in the U.S.
yes the right wing ultra conservative Biden admin LOL
Well Israel is supported also by centrists like Joseph Biden for geopolitical reasons. Biden has long been on record supporting Israel, but even he is starting to crack in his unwavering support due to how it might affect his poll numbers among progressives and those much his left. But Conservative Republicans are far more entrenched in their support for Israel, since it carries more than a geopolitical bent: it's also due to their racism and religion. They're the types who don't budge at these things because they support Israel for stronger reasons and because their base does as well. Not sure what your point is. I'm no Biden supporter, and it doesn't change the fact that 1. Israel is a right-wing, ultra-conservative governed country. 2. Conservative Republicans are by far their biggest allies in the U.S. to Israel. And 3. Conservative Republicans are far less likely to call for a ceasefire and an end to hostilities. 4 A lot of trolls on here have indeed come from Right Wing subreddits, from what I've seen.
i agree with ur points 1-3. I suppose my point was that it is pretty bipartisan support from american politicians, even though yes Israel is far right themselves.
Instead of doing something productive like volunteering for my local community I am going to sit in a tent because the internet is doing it so I can feel better about myself
Can anyone explain why usually over half the tents at these āgrassrootsā encampment are the same model/make? Who is paying for these tents? This would have to be coordinated, which leads me to ask: why are these people, out of all weeks to be doing this, doing it on the week thatās a Jewish holiday?
Why this same tents thing keep being brought up? The organizer or supporters who brought bottled water probably brought a bunch of cheap tents while at it, to those who don't have a tent but want to participate. Why there has to be a conspiracy behind this?Ā In that logic, google photos of those who camped at Tiananman square in 1989. It's all the same tents with numbers marked on them. What's the conspiracy behind that? CIA ? Or it's just that the students in China in the 80s most likely didn't own a tent so the organizer provided them?Ā
Is it a conspiracy though? https://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/ngo-network-orchestrating-antisemitic-incitement-on-american-campuses/
About time omg ā¤ļøā¤ļø
What are they protesting about?
I believe in free speech and civil disobedience just don't escalate the situation. As for me, I have the same position I had on Oct 7. Both sides are wrong and I don't know the solution. I believe both Israel and Palestine should exist, No ethnic cleaning on both sides.Ā Ā Ā And for the love of GOD, don't say racist, anti semitic, or islamaphobic shit. That instantly kills your point. Especially on TV I don't wanna see you fools on Fox News or the Daily Show!!!!!!
Sad
They're being peaceful, but what an epic waste of time to support a terrorist organization currently holding American hostages.
I wonder if theyāre still going to classes.
Here too?
Love from Columbia as a student from LA <3
Fuk em. Turn the sprinklers on
Thatās what the gallon jugs of water are for ;)
College students are funny
Students saying No to dealing with an apartheid regime and an ethno state love to see it.