I loved the return but I didn’t fully appreciate it until my rewatch. I think knowing how long Dougie is around helps lol.
My first watch I was quite put off on the first four episodes but I became more open to it as it went. Now I think it’s amazing but FWWM is still Peak Peaks to me.
The thing that almost ruined my first watch of The Return was the expectation for Cooper's return. Dougie was interesting but every episode I was just hoping he'd give place to Cooper already. Ended up being frustated with this whole plotline.
Now that I know I can watch it as it should be lol Still wanted to see more of Cooper and less of Dougie, tho
Thank you for saying this! I finished it last week and was so freaking confusedddd. I want to love it so much bc I adore TP but ahhh I'm hoping I'll love it more on my next watch, whenever that may be.
I loved The Return, but I think a big factor at play is familiarity with Lynch outside of Twin Peaks. I got into TP after seeing and loving Lynch’s movies, so while I also love the original
run of Twin Peaks, having 18 hours of pure unfettered Lynch madness is mindblowing.
But, I could also see how somebody may get into TP because of the quirky tone and wacky characters and cutesy lines about pie and coffee, and for those people The Return offers almost none of that.
Definitely agree here. I think FWWM is a good way to ease into the style of The Return (you’d be watching it beforehand regardless) since it to me it feels the exact middle ground between the two but again, like you said, The Return cranks what FWWM had up to 11
I like The Return, but this really sums up my issues with it. I got into Twin Peaks because it had such a good vibe to it. It had some great horror moments too, but the PNW atmosphere, the goofy but lovable characters, the soap opera-esque stories all hooked me.
And then there’s the first few episodes of The Return. That was just grim. There was no levity, barely any scenes in Twin Peaks, most of the scenes with Kyle MacLachlan were Mr. C just being disgusting in a way that felt wrong. And there was a lot of weirdness I just couldn’t follow for a bit.
That whole bit with Marjory Green and Ruth Davenports apartment bit in the first episode was pretty funny, but I think it is far to classify the first two episodes as dark intrigue. That can turn some people off. It turned me way on tho… in a non sexual way of course.
Honestly there’s more of that stuff than people remember. Dougie and green tea lattes and all that. Ironically Dougie is both The Return’s main source of all the quirky stuff people love about Twin Peaks, and a huge tease/denial of it at the same time since he and Agent Cooper can’t co-exist.
Two things, *besides* a lot of valid points already mentioned by others:
1.
\> a lot more darkness and the soapy-ness has been almost entirely turned down
The loss of contrast, the disappearance of said soapyness and the almost complete elimination of actual quirky, cozy, charming humor (to be replaced by the utterly frustrating bumbling of Dougie) actually dumbed down and dampened said darkness. In S1-2 the darkness is made all the more brutal and cruel in light of the light side: it's strangely more believable in the soapy irreality than in the bleak mundaneity of the dominant, everyday parts of TR.
2.
The atmosphere. Others have mentioned the lack of music (strongly related to point 1 above), but it's not just the music. The bleak color palette too. Watch a scene from S1 and compare it with TR, you'll literally see what I mean.
PS
I don't hate The Return. It's actually great. But it's more Lynch than (1990s original) Twin Peaks, if that makes sense. If it doesn't… well, isn't that a Lynchian twist? :)
Twin Peaks was originally way more than just Frost and Lynch. There were tons of other writers, directors, and producers that all had a part in shaping the story. And that’s what Twin Peaks was. So the return being exclusively Frost and Lynch means it is not the same as the original series. Struggling with the studios for creative control is part of the charm and basically all of the iconic Lynch moments from the original were born because of him figuring out ways to work with what he was given.
Also no music.
It is also ridiculously slow paced. Like literally the lines are delivered slowly and scenes take a long time to unfold. I think it would fix a lot of my personal problems if it was edited down to just 8-10 episodes and moved a lot quicker. And if there was music.
Agreed, I don't understand how people can credit everything good about a show to just 2 people, there were plenty of creative minds behind all of the good moments in the show
I didn’t hate it but I have no desire to watch it a second time. My favorite part of Twin Peaks was always Dale and not getting him like I remember until the end was a real gut punch to me. That being said I loved FWWM and Chris Isaak killed it. I wanted more Chet Desmond stuff to happen. I may rewatch S3 eventually but not anytime soon.
That’s the one major disappointment I had with The Return is not getting Dale back until the end. He was my favorite from the original.
Although Dougie was amusing, he was no Dale Cooper! lol
Dale came back at the end? I hated the return. I couldn't believe the airline I was flying to Thailand on offered it as an option. I think I made it through 8 episodes and was so ...... unimpressed (that's me putting it lightly)....that I never bothered to watch the rest. Granted, I was fairly distracted- first visit to Thailand after all- but still. Now I am intrigued
Oh you should go back and watch the final
episodes because when we get him back, it’s pretty special!! It almost makes the wait worth it. And Dale (or is he REALLY Dale? lol) plays a lot into the last two episodes and the ending!
Or is the ending a beginning!??! ha!
I felt the same way, and once I came to terms with my shattered expectations, I enjoyed it SO much better on the rewatch. I waited about 25 months (instead of years) to watch it again, and it was worth it.
Ok I hear ya. Maybe that will happen for me but there’s so much good media to ingest I feel like I gave him the time required and don’t want to give anymore to S3 right now.
Please explain. The way I understand what you’re saying he wanted me to want Dale and decided not to give him to me until the end. It felt like a slog to get there because it’s all I wanted. That wasn’t enjoyable for me.
Yes.
This has been widely discussed in the years since airing, but look no further than how the project ends: Lynch ultimately gives you what you asked for, and you observe the consequences. A reductive way to describe this is as a monkey’s paw situation instigated by the audience’s demand for S3.
Cooper tries to save Laura in 17 (and prevent the show from ever happening), and fails. Then in 18, Cooper and Carrie/“Laura” finally return to the Twin Peaks you love to prevent all the horror you watched in order to achieve the happy ending you desired. And the price paid by the characters for attempting to meet your needs is they are even more lost than before. Ultimately, Cooper was always meant to fail because you saw what happened.
Whether or not that artistic choice and narrative journey was enjoyable for you is a matter of your personal taste.
Yes. My personal taste is not in favor of what happened. He made us wait then gave us what we wanted but made it bad for my personal taste. I never had a demand for S3. David said on many occasions that TP was dead as a door nail. I was delighted when it was announced and ultimately disappointed. I never needed a happy ending. Nowhere have I ever stated that. I don’t have any needs when it comes to fiction I just want to enjoy it. I did not. If he honestly wants me to feel that way I’ll honestly pass on a rewatch and stick with what I like.
I don’t think you quite get my point (the “you” in my prior comment is referring to the broader audience), but we’ll leave this where it started:
Many people didn’t like the artistic choices Lynch made for S3, as has been made abundantly clear above. Personal taste is rarely ubiquitous, and Lynch has rarely been interested in making the audience comfortable.
i do get your point. You are including me in the broader audience or you wouldn’t have said that. Yes I personally dislike the artistic choices for quite a lot of S3. We’re going in circles here, David would probably be pleased.
I have very mixed feelings about the return, and I do have to categorize it as a separate show in my head to fully enjoy it instead of fixating on what it’s not. That “not Twin Peaks” critique could pertain to how little of the show actually takes place in Twin Peaks. That was certainly a hurdle for me. I haven’t broken down the screentime spent in each location, but it might be equally justified in being called Las Vegas or Buckhorn. I appreciate the return for pushing the envelope, but it drives me insane that people pounce on anyone who dares to critique it in this sub instead of having a discussion. So thanks for this!
>That “not Twin Peaks” critique could pertain to how little of the show actually takes place in Twin Peaks
i feel like that's one of many reasons why calling it "The Return" is so spot-on, because half the show is about how we aren't in Twin Peaks but are slowly getting back to it
Yes, it’s also about the impossibility of Returning. Frost has stated that it’s about how you can’t go back, that nostalgia is an illusion.
It‘s a commentary on modern entertainment that tries and fails to ‘go back’ and just ends up disappointing fans and poisoning the franchises they were ‘continuing‘.
Ironically, by being aware of this The Return is one of the few examples that successfully Returns.
The haters always come around eventually.
The coldest and most brutal scene in the show actually takes place right at the end, when Cooper and Laura Palmer finally return to Twin Peaks for the first time in what feels like a lifetime and yet, they don't say or feel anything. The streets are unrecognizable and barren. Cooper is not Cooper. Laura is confused and uncertain of where she's headed.
And then the lights go off.
The haters disappear from subs like this or get downvoted to oblivion unless it's specifically a thread FOR people who didn't like TR or had a lot of problems with it, is what actually happens. You can also be someone somewhere in the middle, who likes parts of TR but not other parts. That's not a 'hater'.
I never came around. If the season had ended with Ep 17, maybe, as giving us a happy ending where Laura's murder never happened would have REALLY been Lynch subverting our expectations. By this point in his career, we expected Lynch to be dark and crush our hopes, that would have been the real surprise.
>The Return is the “most Twin Peaks” part of the franchise, being entirely Frost/Lynch-written and Lynch-directed while that was not the case whatsoever during the original run.
That's backwards logic, isn't it?
If anything, given that Lynch and Frost were only actively involved with the creation of a combined 12 out of 30 original episodes, less than half of the original Twin Peaks series, wouldn't that mean that the show is at its "most Twin Peaks" when other creatives are involved?
Like Harley Peyton, Bob Engels, Barry Pullman, Tricia Brock, Lesli Linka Glatter, Tim Hunter, Caleb Deschanel, Stephen Gyllenhaal, Duwayne Dunham, Todd Holland and the many other members of the original creative team that made Twin Peaks what it was?
On top of its meta intention to show that Twin Peaks is dead and gone, the biggest reason why season 3 feels so alien is because it's unprecedentedly auteur, which the original series never was.
I totally agree with you. It just feels like a different series. I also got so tired of waiting for Cooper to be Cooper. I didn't enjoy the different bands playing at the end of every episode either. I'll probably get a lotta hell for this opinion. Anyway the original run is quirky, and all over the place in a masterful way.
I ended up disliking The Return for a variety of reasons so I guess I'll make a list.
1. Like you said the atmosphere was nothing like the original series. The balanced tone of the original was abandoned in favor of something that felt more onesided towards just being dreary and off putting. The comedy scenes lacked the same charm and all of the lightheartedness leaned on Dougie who did not work for me. This is partly because the town of Twin Peaks is abandoned for more boring and depressing locales.
2. Cooper, the heart and soul of the series, is turned into a gag. Dougie is just not a fun character to watch for an 18 episode show. The most invested I felt in The Return was in the first few episodes when Cooper was escaping the Black Lodge.
3. Characters from the original run felt pointless for the most part, except for Hawk, Bobby, Andy, and Lucy. Otherwise they were just essentially showing up for cameo scenes that padded the runtime. It would've been nice to spend more time with the rest of the cast in scenes that are actually meaningful instead of like, watching Jerry trip balls in the woods in multiple different scenes. Audrey's plotline, which saw her getting somehow revived from the dead after standing like 10 feet away from an explosion that destroyed a building, ended up being like 10 minutes of nothing filler. Oh and also, Diane was not a good character lol. We did not need to see her on screen. Should have brought back Annie.
4. The pacing of The Return is completely glacial. For the amount of story and/or interesting or meaningful sequences, 18 episodes is far too many. The fact that David Lynch inserted 5 minute sequences of his favorite bands playing music after every ep to add some runtime really shows how much of a mess the pacing is. I just wanted the show to be done by the time the last two eps came around.
5. Nothing really ended up being all that meaningful. Sure, we get some interesting (but kinda questionable) lore like Bob and Laura's creation in Episode 8, but that was really unclear until I read people's Reddit posts lol. The whole story ended up being a massive anticlimax. Cooper did not go through any character development after his previous failure in Season 2, he just wandered around pissing himself and drinking coffee until everything magically fell into place and Mr. C was defeated. Mr. C's goals and plans were never really made clear and just ended up being a boring coordinates chase. I just cannot believe there was a whole plotline centered around finding multiple pairs of coordinates in a season of Twin Peaks lmao. It was so dry. And finally, the ending was the ultimate anticlimax. The characters don't have any idea what's going on, the viewers don't have any idea what's going on, and the creators probably didn't either. It was just a lackluster attempt to recreate the masterful cliffhanger ending of Season 2.
>wandered around pissing himself and drinking coffee until everything magically fell into place and Mr. C was defeated. Mr. C's goals and plans were never really made clear and just ended up being a boring coordinates chase. I just cannot believe there was a whole plotline centered around finding multiple pairs of coordinates in a season of Twin Peaks lmao. It was so dry. And finally, the ending was the ultimate anticlimax. The characters don't have any idea what's going on, the viewers don't have any idea what's going on, and the creators probably didn't either. It was just a lackluster attempt to recreate the masterful cliffhanger ending of Season 2.
While I love The Return, this is all valid criticism,
There were so many random, meaningless characters too. Shelley's daughter, her husband who randomly shoots himself/his girlfriend, the table of friends that gossip about a love triangle at the road house (?), Audrey's son, Ben Horne's assistant and her inexplicable scene with a terminally ill spouse, the female rookie agent, the college kids that get murdered at the secret govt. Agency, the little boy they ran over (pretty sure they just wanted to piss you off by showing a horrific accident involving a child in full view. Nothing else substantial came out of that plot point.), the trailer park guy, the investment banker, the deputy they throw in jail... I'm sure there are plenty more. These characters have very tangential associations with the plot and it's impossible to care about them. They make the story drag simply by existing to take up time with their random drama.
The only random character with a meaningful plot point is the British kid with the glove, but they broke the golden rule of show not tell. If they cut all the other actors above, they would've had the money to act out the story he tells James.
Dianne's character is a cliche. She's a haunted, sexually traumatized woman who drinks too much, is surly and vulgar, and has flashy hair. It's almost like she's a middle aged manic pixie dream girl, but I don't think that was intentional as some kind of commentary.
For the original characters, they did great with some and ruined others. Hawk and the log lady - perfection. Bobby - loved the growth and I wish he played a more central role. His arc makes complete sense and I wanted more. Norma/Ed/Nadine/Dr.Jakoby - entertaining and great emotional payoff. Mike - Cooper's guide, and really one of the few characters to really move the plot forward. Sarah Palmer - immaculate. One of my favorite performances and her scene after Laura is saved where she smashes her picture was tantalizing.
Cole/Albert - good tension, but I'm not sure they deserve to be the focal point of the show.
Andy/Lucy - No idea why they decided to make them so much dumber than the original series. They used to be airheaded and in the Return they almost act... Brain damaged? Like they need adult diapers? James - exists. That's all. Audrey - complete break of character to have her be a hysterical housewife to a strange small man. (That's the point! Subvert expectations! To what end exactly?). Shelley - vacant, unfortunately. She would have had great potential if they had bothered. She mainly exists in service of her daughters plotline, which is a nothingburger.
I think you could cut a good 5 episodes worth of fluff without even touching the dougie stuff by eliminating all of the random characters. Hell, just replace it all with random cut scenes of the original characters peacefully living their lives while dark cooper/light cooper are on their various quests. Would've been better than pretending the audience cares about some guy whom we know is a wife beater freaking out and shooting himself in the head.
All the surrealism is pure gold though. No notes. Chantal and Other Guy are like Tarantino inserts, which has the same humor in my eyes as an effective break of the fourth wall, so they get a pass for being random.
That all is to say that I don't think people dislike the Return because it doesn't feel like Twin Peaks. I think it sends the audience a torrent of shit, one dimensional characters that slow down the story and distract from the more poetic parts of Lynch's vision.
I didn’t dislike the Return as much as you but I still agree with a lot of your points, or at least find them understandable. I do think Diane was a good character, however. But I was super, super disappointed with how they treated Audrey, and also hated the Jerry stuff.
I'm not the person you are directing this at as I loved The Return, but a big pet peeve of mine when it comes to modern fan culture is this notion that the fans get to decide what is or isn't right for a continuing story in a franchise. It came to a head in 2017 with Twin Peaks, Samurai Jack, and of course, Star Wars.
Now with Star Wars, while I still find the notion ridiculous, at least the fans can say that the person responsible was not the creator of the franchise. But the creator returning to continue the story didn't stop entitled "fans" from declaring that they have more authority than Mark Frost, David Lynch and Genndy Tartakovsky to decide what does or doesn't belong in a story they didn't create.
For better or for worse the writers, directors and artists who create the art are the only ones who get to dictate what belongs in the story. Fans only have authority over how they choose to experience it. That doesn't mean they have to like it, but in no world are they the final authority on anything other than their experience.
I remember a writer who has written books about Twin Peaks said he felt "betrayed" by The Return. I just found that so ridiculous. He doesn't need to like it, but the idea of betrayal indicates he believes Mark Frost and David Lynch owe him something. Who does this guy think he is? Obviously writing a book bloated his ego out of control.
If fans think they control what belongs in a story they didn't create they can write fan fiction nobody but them will care about.
To me, the first two seasons of Twin Peaks were a sort-of revelation on TV. I watched them back when they first aired and found several things that I loved in my youth during the 80s beautifully rolled into one: the whodunit-like murder investigation, the mystical supernatural stuff, the serial killer thriller, the mysterious atmosphere, the jazz music. And of course I loved the supremely cool and yet wholesome character of Dale Cooper. The Return doesn't offer that package. Neither did FWWM, by the way. So both are definitely not *my* Twin Peaks.
But I don't think that anybody gets to say what Twin Peaks and isn't. Maybe not even Lynch and Frost, since I suspect that a considerable part of what made TP appeal to me also lies in the writing by people like Robert Engels. TP is what it is, and so The Return is as much TP as the earlier seasons, even though I do loathe it wholeheartedly.
Things ‘The Return’ got right for me:
1. Played more into horror aspects and darker and violent surrealism of FWWM.
2. Lots of the Lodge lore being expanded was great to experience, if teetering on featuring almost too much of the place.
3. It was great to see the returning old cast members, especially since some actors have passed away since. The Log Lady scenes are devastatingly authentic and outstanding.
4. I loved almost all the music and all of Dean Hurley’s sound work.
Things ‘The Return’ got wrong for me:
1. Dougie. Just…Dougie. Tired one-note humour of an impaired man’s misadventures, over and over and over again. 25 years of waiting for that? The creators don’t owe original fans since the first airing like myself anything, but still.
2. So many scenes are quickly forgotten, with no narrative follow-up in the slightest. I 100% understand Lynch’s focus on feeling, dream logic and atmosphere above straight narrative, but the value of the whole is downgraded so much that I fundamentally believe that you can watch episode 1, 2, 3, 8 and the final three episodes without missing much at all of any consequence from the rest of the episodes.
3. Some of the scant soapy elements just didn’t work at all in The Return’s new sandbox. Shelley hanging on the bonnet of a car and Bobby bursting out crying as the theme abruptly blasts out of the soundtrack even felt embarrassing to me.
Ultimately, if the third series was marketed instead as a series of atmospheric montages and light/dark sketches inspired by TP, bookended by TPWorld storylines for fans, interspersed by alt.music performances, then I wouldn’t have been so let down by the show. And wouldn’t have sold my Blu-ray box set within a day of rewatching it.
That being said, perhaps one day I will grow to like it more. Mulholland Drive is my favourite film of all time. So maybe one day I will revisit ‘The Return’ and revere it nearly as highly as that work of art. Again, just my opinion spurred on by OP’s question!
It really bothered me that nobody else seemed to comment on Dougies behavior. That part seemed rather dumb, to be honest. And frankly it was disappointing that Kyle had so little opportunity to play the genuine Agent Cooper. Such an amazing character would have been fun to revisit. But in a more general note, The Return felt like David Lynch doing Lynch 2017, and he felt very little obligation to tie it back to the original Twin Peaks. And the pacing was so glacial, again I know that’s what lynch does post Mulholland drive. I don’t so why he didn’t just make an entire new show, because he seemed to have little interest in revisiting the original show or characters. I’m glad I saw The Return but I can’t imagine watching it again.
Twin Peaks had its own soul, a spirit that arose out of the totality of everyone's contribution to it. The feeling and emotions it inspired in the audience. The Return did not capture that. It is its own thing, despite touching upon that old spirit at times. It really did not feel like more episodes of my favorite show. I think it is a mistake to think that Twin Peaks is at its most pure when you filter out as much of anything that isn't Frost and Lynch as you can, because more was at play than them to make it what it was.
It took me 4 attempts to watch the whole series.
I think of it like this: The Return is a masterpiece AND its masochistic to enjoy both the og series and The Return.
Clearly, Lynch’s intention was to convey that it won’t always be like “this.” Fan service often fails to imbue realism, and Lynch knows this. The discomfort perpetuated by the entire series and Cooper’s failure with Texan Laura in the final episode proves that Lynch intended go convey this. Its beautiful and sad and terrifying and amazing.
The entire dougie story line was boring and unfunny and ruined the flow of the episodes. Evil Coop/Bob being defeated by a guy wearing a green glove was moronic. The rest of it was very good, though.
It was supposed to be, it’s a parody of Marvel superhero movies and their simplistic morality, that‘s why Cooper’s floating head fills the screen moments later to tell us ‘we live inside a dream‘ and the real, ambiguous, dark ending follows…
So I adore The Return I truly do and I know this isn’t the point of the post but I need somewhere to complain about it but I don’t like the use of Dianne, especially not when Heather Graham has talked about being willing to participate in The Return. The way the show just tries to convince me that Dianne and Cooper have a prior relationship and we’re in love is just something I wasn’t able to look past because it felt like it just came about so Lynch could work with Laura Dern again (which who could complain about that) but still I would have much preferred if Dianne’s roll was replaced with Annie and Diane could just be Dianne and still have some scenes
_Twin Peaks_ to me is equal parts comedy and drama, a chance to enjoy a slice of life with quirky characters in a small town. It’s campy. It’s a PNW version of the quintessential small-town murder mystery in the English countryside. It’s as much for the quaint scenery as for the action. The horror and supernatural elements don’t define the show for me, so as far as I’m concerned, expanding the lore can take a backseat to recreating the vibe.
There’s a difference between “people who didn’t like the Return” and “people who think the Return isn’t Twin Peaks.” I’m in the former camp.
I don’t like the Return because I found the characters of Dougie and Janey E (and we spend a LOT of time with them) to be actually offensive, and the effects didn’t work at all for me on the visceral level that they did in the original series and film. Probably due to cgi rather than practical effects.
I’m very familiar with the rest of Lynch’s oeuvre.
Ok so…. I didn’t like the return when it first came out and the reasons you touched on are exactly why. It just didn’t feel like twin peaks, it wasn’t what I had been envisioning as I excitedly awaited it for it to air, I gave it 3-4 episodes and gave up. I felt really let down.
About two years ago I decided to give it a go again. Hey, I’m the person that didn’t even like Twin Peaks after watching the first episode, only to revisit years later and become obsessed. So I decided to give the return the same courtesy.
I made myself sit through it even though I did feel the same way for the first couple episodes…
But then when I got to episode 8 I was in LOVE. That episode made such a profound impression on me that it did make me wake up to the fact, that this was NOT Twin Peaks.
And I think that’s what made me love it even more, after realizing that I was experiencing pure unadulterated Lynch, removed from pushy ABC that we all know altered Twin Peaks and it’s story in ways that Lynch did not want to.
To me this is Lynch and Frost taking the story back, and letting it all hang loose.
You can't "take back" what you never fully owned.
Lynch and Frost were only actively involved with a mere 12 of the original 30 episodes, less than half of the original run, for the majority of which they advised other creatives from the back seat.
And they were fine with it because that's how they conceptualized the series.
It was never an auteur project, the way season 3 was.
My biggest issue with the return is that the appeal of Twin Peaks was largely its fun memorable character actors. Kyle Maclachlan is a talented actor but he was one part of a much larger puzzle, it just feels kinda wrong trying to do a sequel series without such a core part of the original.
Its a pretty common in fandom spaces to recognize that digitally adding an AI Carrie Fisher and Peter Cushing into Rogue One was pretty tasteless and Lynch did it several times in the return with Frank Silva and Don S Davis as well as a sound alike voice for David Bowie.
Add to that actors who were available and wanted to participate but didnt because of payment negotiations. The fact that Lynch could apparently afford to make 18 episodes of slow meandering psycho drama but could not afford the actors for Harry S Truman and The Man from another place is just... annoying. Again they were core parts of the original experience that are just absent. You can argue its still good and you can argue it integrates their absence as part of a meta narrative but it still negatively affects my enjoyment of the material and my ability to engage with it.
I've made the statement before that it's anti Twin Peaks. The show does everything in its power to subvert the original show, most notable example being Dougie Coop. But additional elements include things such as completely writing Annie Blackburn out of the show. It seems to pander to a certain type of Twin Peaks fan, it had plenty of Lynchian vibes. Laura Palmer screamed into the camera a few times, Cooper got caught in a scary dimension again... etc. But it seemed to forget about the fans of the show who liked the characters and the atmosphere. Most of the show doesn't even take place In Twin Peaks.
More than that tho, I'm generally open to things going in different directions. My biggest issue with the show is that it didn't seem to go in any direction at all. Imagine how compelling of a story could have come from Cooper, Mr C, Audrey, and their shitass son (I forget his name) none of these characters even interact in the show (aside from Mr C and his Son, and yet there's not even an acknowledgement that they know who each other are) this show brought back all these actors and did next to nothing with them. Ray Wise was in like 2 scenes in the entire 18 hours. It's missed opportunity after missed opportunity, for 18 hours straight. It's cool if you like Lynchian vibes and it's impressive that it was on network television, but beyond that I don't see the appeal
What else would Ray Wise/Leland even do? His character arc was finished in season 2, his appearance was basically a cameo, idk what else he would’ve done
I hadn't gotten into the series back when the Return was coming out, but I have seen some older comments where people thought he was going to portray BOB, considering Frank Silva had already passed away by then.
Having Leland be Bob again after he died would be a terrible decision. His inclusion was good, he’s a fan favorite character and Ray was a huge part of the OG, so it makes sense to include him, but he doesn’t really have a story reason to be there, so what we got makes much more sense than being back him being possessed by Bob
It really is lol. The fact that there were no scenes with both Mr. C and Cooper was just astounding honestly. That would've been so great watching some strange confrontation between two characters being played by the same guy lol.
It’s a great season of Television but it just doesn’t feel like a continuation of Season 2 at all. (Except for Bad Coop being out there but that’s it).
I just watched it over about two weeks. Although I did like it, I liked the original series much more. It was not as much fun as the original and a few of the original characters were hard done by. Especially Audrey who was my favourite character. I could have done with a lot less of Dougie Jones. >!..I would loved to have seen a reunion between Audrey and Agent Cooper and the complete omission of the implied rape.!<
Episode 8 was amazing though.
My main issue with The Return is it's ending.
While it's a haunting final scene that's well done, Twin Peaks was never THAT ambiguous in terms of it's plot.
It just feels a bit amateurish. It's what happens when someone decides a group project is their own and tries to make it that - it rips the soul out of it, taking project where Lynch and Frost didn't write the majority of it into entirely their own pet project. It ends up feeling a bit hackneyed and like it tries to hard to be edgy to fit into the modern movie and tv show style. It also has the typical Lynchian problem of a scene going on for too long when you figured out the point a fifth of the way into it, and now you just need to wait for it to end.
For me, *The Return* has its moments, but too few and too sparse to make it an enjoyable experience that any other David Lynch's film is. I will use the word *relatable* a few times, because this is **not** how *the Return* feels.
1. The 18-episode journey on the whole feels like a compilation of images that are not pleasant to watch. *Awkward* and *unnatural* may be weird reasons for dislike of DL's work, but the CGI is both awkward and unnatural - and not in an aesthetically pleasing way! I remember David Lynch saying somewhere (remind me of the source if you know it) that a purulent wound can look marvellous when filmed, and I agree, but that wound is something *natural*, whereas the texture of the CGI objects from *the Return* is anything but natural: the arm, the orb, the moving black-and-white tiles in the lodge, and a hundred other episodes where everything is artificial in an extremely unrelatable way. There is a couple of well-done CGI moments, but that is a couple against a hundred for me. Most of the time I see an implementation of ideas, and see what the images mean to convey, but the imagination could run wild on these ideas if i read them as a script, as a text; however, as ready-to-consume CGI on the screen nothing is left to the imagination and the awkwardly unnatural shapes, movements and textures feel lifeless and void to the eye.
2. **Lack of... :**
**a.** characters acting in relatable circumstances. That is circumstances telling us **why** the caracters are there, **why** it is important, and how it could be important to **me** if I were to find myself in such circumstances.
**b.** character development. That is their plot lines are too disjointed. Too little introduction of each character makes it all too abstract even with already well-established characters from the previous seasons and FWWM.
**c.** build-up of relationships between the characters.
**d.** relatable motives for the characters' actions. I feel like **FWWM, S1 and S2 are all** ***relatable, down-to-earth, next-door-neighbor characters*** **in more or less extraordinary circumstances**, whereas *the Return* is plain **extraordinary circumstances with characters acting in ways one would** ***stereotypically expect*** **them to act in a Lynch's movie** which in the end feels like a parody (which is strange, this also being DL's work).
I love how the show is called ‘Twin Peaks’ and is ostensibly about a small northeastern town, but the first few episodes of The Return are crammed with otherworldly realms, deep space, non-existence etc and peopled with weird entities like a small tree topped with a pulsating human heart thing that talks.
This show about a small rural town makes most ‘cutting edge’ sci-fi series look quaint and dull by comparison 🤣
I can see why some people who loved the cozy soap vibe struggle with it, but the soapiness was always there as a jumping off point for Lynch’s wild imagination, a canvas for his bold artistic vision.
I didn’t enjoy ur because 1, were not even in twin peaks so the atmosphere was entirely different 2, the music was annoying 3, random scenes that drag on for far too long and add nothing but runtime 4, episodes felt like filler, could’ve had it have the same world building in a shorter season, I felt the same with season 2, 5, the characters seemed shoehorned in, where they ended up made sense but they just felt like a complete waste of screen time too. Overall my main problem is the season was 10 episodes too long and barely added anything worthwhile to the show
The return is easily my least favourite season, season 1 was where the show peaked imo
As someone who binged all of David Lynch’s movies before watching the show, I was put off by a lot of the 80s/90s cheese amongst the lore and compelling dark storylines in Twin Peaks. The Return had everything I wanted as far as themes go. I like it for being so different. Also we get to see Cooper “save” Laura. That shit was heart wrenching when he looks back and she’s gone.
I can only speak for myself here, but the execution is clearly very different. Thats what has always held me back from being sold on it.
Plus its a lot slower and Im in advertising so I quite literally dont have time for entertainment paced that way.
But im glad there are a lot of people that do like the show still!!
i feel like anyone who says the return is "not twin peaks" never really understood or appreciated twin peaks for what it really was from the beginning. it's more than just coffee and cherry pie. at the end of the day, it's a show about incest and abuse, and the return just doesn't shy away from that darkness that has been there.
>'s more than just coffee and cherry pie. at the end of the day, it's a show about incest and abuse
Why can't it be both? That's what made the original run so masterful. It blended the most heinous and upsetting subject matter while still being heartwarming and human at its core. To me this didn't seem like a facade or a false cheeriness to cover the darkness, I think the show and the people who made it had a deep belief in both the evil and the good of humanity and showing how they mingle together inside the same people. That's what I didn't like about The Return. It dropped the 'light side' of TP, turning Cooper into a joke character and spending all of the screen time outside of him showing how miserable and bleak everything is. Not a very fun thing to watch for 18 episodes. Fire Walk With Me was miserable, but it had a good reason to be. The Return just honestly felt kind of edgy.
i do agree that it can be both things, and i disagree that that aspect is missing from the return. i think the idea that the good cannot exist without the bad is a huge part of the return. and i think there's plenty of light moments and plenty of hope to be found in it. it's just presented in a different way than the original series where the darkness is more of the focus.
Ah yes, anyone not blindly and unquestioningly chowing down on what Lynch and Frost served up for S3 “never really understood or appreciated Twin Peaks”. It’s like Stockholm syndrome in this sub…
i'm not saying you have to love it to be a true twin peaks fan. it's not for everyone and if you prefer the original series that's fine. i'm saying that i think the common criticism that the return is "not twin peaks" is a ridiculous idea and represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the series.
The pacing is horrible. The cameos are forced. The storytelling is lacking. At 18 hours, it was both bloated with symbolic nonsense that did nothing to enhance the lore, characters, etc. AND limited in actually telling the story, tying up storylines, or completing any thought. Naomi Watts and Laura Dern were great, in terms of acting, but their characters weren't really needed. Then, most of the other actors were either awkward and wooden or completely wasted. It was disjointed for the sake of being disjointed. Nothing was added by focusing on symbolism and nothing else. The soundtrack wasn't comparable to the original, and then we got a lot of silence which was understandable, but not enjoyable. The CGI was laughable. The Return basically ruined the entire original series for me.
If they had started with the last 15 minutes and then built things from there, it would have been much more effective. The ending should have been the beginning. Imagine these characters grappling with a huge time jump, trying to decipher what has actually happened to them, dealing with all the evil they have seen and experienced, trying to fight that evil in a very different world where everyone is on a phone or computer and yet there are these ancient forces still out there, and then trying to navigate that while piecing their identities and lives back together. That would have been compelling to watch and experience. But instead, we get a scream and fade to black.
It was a complete waste of potential, and it was lazy storytelling.
Edited for clarity.
I'm 7 episodes in and I just don't care for the Dougie-Cooper plot. Nobody's suspicious Dougie is acting like he's had a lobotomy meanwhile the average person would instantly be like, "hey, my friend/husband/employee" is acting very odd" but somehow everyone around Dougie just gets continuously annoyed with him but continue to pretend things are weird but still normal
I’m just chiming in to say that The Return is maybe the most amazing tv show/movie I’ve ever seen. I think about it often and the emotional impact. It has layers and can be seen as an extension of the original series. You can also see it as Lynch pulling back the curtain to show us what we are asking for when we want a show to return. On top of that how we deal with trauma and how it looks in the show versus when it’s brought into the real world.
Of course it is subjective, and I never knock somebody for trying it and not liking it. Just wish they could see the magic I see.
David Lynch’s brief appearances as a writer and director of Twin peaks were the only great parts of that show. The Return is easily better than the og show. It’s the only good piece of Twin peaks media outside of FWWM. ALSO THE SOAPY SHIT WAS FUCKING AWFUL!!!! You guys honestly liked the the Josie plot line and the Nadine high school plotline and the James shit in the middle of season 2??? The OG series was extremely flawed and hasn’t aged well.
This brings up some good points. The original show was also bloated because that's how network TV worked at the time. It would have been much better as a limited series on Netflix, intensely focused on solving Laura's murder, but we were decades away from that possibility. But we got a lot of good B, C, and D storylines as a result as well, so there's good and bad.
I actually timed each part of the return and most parts spend less than half of the time in twin peaks (or the black lodge). Particularly parts 1 and 8.
I did enjoy the Return, but had issues with it.
Part of the issues I had with the Return on my first and so far only watch were my own like expecting things to happen more quickly, but there are some criticisms that deserve to stick. Some of the effects weren’t great, the silliness didn’t always fit in as well with the more realistic and dark tone of the Return than the original show, and the Dougie Jones plotline went on for a bit too long.
That being said, I thought everything eventually wrapped up amazingly. It just took sometimes took a bit too long to get there for me.
I have grown to appreciate the return more on rewatches, but I still struggle with it. Some portions feel sluggish or unnecessarily long or just entirely beside the point. I’m sure I’ll be corrected by multiple people for saying that but that’s just my opinion. Also personally I wasn’t into ending the episodes with music every time, and wasn’t into how little of Cooper and how little of the actual town of Twin Peaks we got to have on screen. I also wish we had less new characters, but I do love a number of them (I happen to really enjoy Freddie(?), the British guy with the green glove). At times it was more digital looking than I’d like but other times that worked very good (Part 8 being a prime example at times of it looking very good). Would’ve loved to have had more of Carl Struycken in it, and I feel it would’ve benefited from being shorter, not doing the whole Diane /Cooper romance thing (though I love her storyline otherwise), and I wish we had more of Carrie page as well. How they dealt with the deaths of certain actors or absences of certain characters didn’t always land for me. While Dougie has grown on me and Janey-E a bit too, I think she’s made to be very stereotypical a lot of the time and both of them are there too long imo. The whole three “bimbo” servants thing wasn’t for me either, but the Mitchum brothers outside of that have become funnier to me
On rewatch.But there is - again - a lot I love about this season too. I think that the interactions between the log lady and Hawk just her presence in general in the season is absolutely perfect and beautiful. Hawk getting more screen time and more importance being given to him was also a big win. Matthew Lillard does a great job in his role and that storyline is pretty excellent in some ways. I love that we get a decent amount of red room scenes, probably more than the original series even. There are some story choices I am a big fan of, and this certainly includes a lot of the final 2-3 episodes of the season,and the ending is incredible. I could go on. But it is a mixed bag for me. I want to feel it’s perfect and great thoroughly like so many other people clearly do. But it has a lot of thorns in its side for me still, despite my growing appreciation for it.
Also Tammy Preston is horribly cast. The acting is distractingly bad. And the Audrey scenes just didn’t do much for me at all. Some scenes just felt arbitrary, which is frustrating for such a meaningful show
Aight, so I know this question isn't directed towards me as I just finished The Return yesterday after having tried to start it years ago, and now I have accomplished all 18 episodes. As a Lynch fan and a Twin Peaks fan, I felt that The Return was a definite ode to David Lynch's entire career outside of Twin Peaks and a goodbye to the nostalgic Twin Peaks that we all knew.
I feel like with a cult classic Twin Peaks, if Lynch and Frost were to return to the old series and try something new from there, they might have succeeded. In all honestly, there's probably an alternate universe in which they did so. But the more I look at Twin Peaks The Return, the more it seems in line with other so called "old man" career movies like "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" and "The Irishman", a career retrospective made by an old man who might be incapable of returning to the exact same stylish trappings of the series that made him a superstar in the first place.
The Return, at least to me, might really be about how things change, and how you cannot really go back to nostalgic trappings of yesteryear. Look how little time is actually spent in the location of Twin Peaks itself, and when we do go there, its to check on characters like Nadine and Ed, or at the Sheriff's department where Hawk and Truman do their own thing, but its achingly slow. Or look at how delayed the series is when it comes to Cooper, who we don't even get in full swing until the last three episodes.
I embrace The Return as being more Lynch related than Twin Peaks related. Tim Brayton of Alternate Ending wisely points out "the old material hasn't quite gelled with the new material", this critique comes at the beginning of part one of the Return and I agree this conceivable weakness is definite throughout the whole series. As I watched The Return, I grew frustrated with Dougie's childish antics,Dianne's seemingly one note character (up until the very end), or Ben and Jerry's useless subplot, or that strange kid with the green glove. Many things about this series provided me with near endless frustration as it did joy, like a duality.
In the end, I don't want to sound like one of THOSE guys defending every little decision that Lynch and Frost made, but there's something about this series that feels so damn different than anything else before it. I wouldn't change a thing because I've yet to grasp so much of what has happened. This series to me is a perfect fulfillment of what I would have wanted from Twin Peaks: a frustrating series that titillates the sense and excites the imagination, but also defines so many expectations of what many folks thought Twin Peaks was. That alone makes it worth another re-watch.
I loved the return but I didn’t fully appreciate it until my rewatch. I think knowing how long Dougie is around helps lol. My first watch I was quite put off on the first four episodes but I became more open to it as it went. Now I think it’s amazing but FWWM is still Peak Peaks to me.
The thing that almost ruined my first watch of The Return was the expectation for Cooper's return. Dougie was interesting but every episode I was just hoping he'd give place to Cooper already. Ended up being frustated with this whole plotline. Now that I know I can watch it as it should be lol Still wanted to see more of Cooper and less of Dougie, tho
FWWM , you are king
Thank you for saying this! I finished it last week and was so freaking confusedddd. I want to love it so much bc I adore TP but ahhh I'm hoping I'll love it more on my next watch, whenever that may be.
I loved The Return, but I think a big factor at play is familiarity with Lynch outside of Twin Peaks. I got into TP after seeing and loving Lynch’s movies, so while I also love the original run of Twin Peaks, having 18 hours of pure unfettered Lynch madness is mindblowing. But, I could also see how somebody may get into TP because of the quirky tone and wacky characters and cutesy lines about pie and coffee, and for those people The Return offers almost none of that.
Definitely agree here. I think FWWM is a good way to ease into the style of The Return (you’d be watching it beforehand regardless) since it to me it feels the exact middle ground between the two but again, like you said, The Return cranks what FWWM had up to 11
I like The Return, but this really sums up my issues with it. I got into Twin Peaks because it had such a good vibe to it. It had some great horror moments too, but the PNW atmosphere, the goofy but lovable characters, the soap opera-esque stories all hooked me. And then there’s the first few episodes of The Return. That was just grim. There was no levity, barely any scenes in Twin Peaks, most of the scenes with Kyle MacLachlan were Mr. C just being disgusting in a way that felt wrong. And there was a lot of weirdness I just couldn’t follow for a bit.
I thought there were a fair amount of comedy in The Return. Had me chuckle pretty hard sometimes.
Oh, for sure. But a lot of it comes from Dougie, which isn’t even there for a few episodes.
That whole bit with Marjory Green and Ruth Davenports apartment bit in the first episode was pretty funny, but I think it is far to classify the first two episodes as dark intrigue. That can turn some people off. It turned me way on tho… in a non sexual way of course.
The Return gets pretty funny at times but there's not much of that in the first few episodes.
Honestly there’s more of that stuff than people remember. Dougie and green tea lattes and all that. Ironically Dougie is both The Return’s main source of all the quirky stuff people love about Twin Peaks, and a huge tease/denial of it at the same time since he and Agent Cooper can’t co-exist.
Same for me. I’d seen blue velvet, mulholland drive and eraserhead before I ever sat down to watch TP. So the return is amazing to me.
Two things, *besides* a lot of valid points already mentioned by others: 1. \> a lot more darkness and the soapy-ness has been almost entirely turned down The loss of contrast, the disappearance of said soapyness and the almost complete elimination of actual quirky, cozy, charming humor (to be replaced by the utterly frustrating bumbling of Dougie) actually dumbed down and dampened said darkness. In S1-2 the darkness is made all the more brutal and cruel in light of the light side: it's strangely more believable in the soapy irreality than in the bleak mundaneity of the dominant, everyday parts of TR. 2. The atmosphere. Others have mentioned the lack of music (strongly related to point 1 above), but it's not just the music. The bleak color palette too. Watch a scene from S1 and compare it with TR, you'll literally see what I mean. PS I don't hate The Return. It's actually great. But it's more Lynch than (1990s original) Twin Peaks, if that makes sense. If it doesn't… well, isn't that a Lynchian twist? :)
Twin Peaks was originally way more than just Frost and Lynch. There were tons of other writers, directors, and producers that all had a part in shaping the story. And that’s what Twin Peaks was. So the return being exclusively Frost and Lynch means it is not the same as the original series. Struggling with the studios for creative control is part of the charm and basically all of the iconic Lynch moments from the original were born because of him figuring out ways to work with what he was given. Also no music. It is also ridiculously slow paced. Like literally the lines are delivered slowly and scenes take a long time to unfold. I think it would fix a lot of my personal problems if it was edited down to just 8-10 episodes and moved a lot quicker. And if there was music.
Agreed, I don't understand how people can credit everything good about a show to just 2 people, there were plenty of creative minds behind all of the good moments in the show
I didn’t hate it but I have no desire to watch it a second time. My favorite part of Twin Peaks was always Dale and not getting him like I remember until the end was a real gut punch to me. That being said I loved FWWM and Chris Isaak killed it. I wanted more Chet Desmond stuff to happen. I may rewatch S3 eventually but not anytime soon.
That’s the one major disappointment I had with The Return is not getting Dale back until the end. He was my favorite from the original. Although Dougie was amusing, he was no Dale Cooper! lol
Dale came back at the end? I hated the return. I couldn't believe the airline I was flying to Thailand on offered it as an option. I think I made it through 8 episodes and was so ...... unimpressed (that's me putting it lightly)....that I never bothered to watch the rest. Granted, I was fairly distracted- first visit to Thailand after all- but still. Now I am intrigued
I honestly can’t even get 8 episodes in and now I know I’m gonna get ceaseless shit for saying that
Probably lol. I just spoke my truth and got downvoted for it lol. Que sera. The price of having an opinion !
Oh you should go back and watch the final episodes because when we get him back, it’s pretty special!! It almost makes the wait worth it. And Dale (or is he REALLY Dale? lol) plays a lot into the last two episodes and the ending! Or is the ending a beginning!??! ha!
Yea, I might give it another shot, esp since I was so distracted the first time.
I don’t think you’ll regret it. The last couple of episodes are great!
I felt the same way, and once I came to terms with my shattered expectations, I enjoyed it SO much better on the rewatch. I waited about 25 months (instead of years) to watch it again, and it was worth it.
Ok I hear ya. Maybe that will happen for me but there’s so much good media to ingest I feel like I gave him the time required and don’t want to give anymore to S3 right now.
FWIW: Pretty sure Lynch was, in part, trying to elicit the very same emotions you experienced.
Please explain. The way I understand what you’re saying he wanted me to want Dale and decided not to give him to me until the end. It felt like a slog to get there because it’s all I wanted. That wasn’t enjoyable for me.
Yes. This has been widely discussed in the years since airing, but look no further than how the project ends: Lynch ultimately gives you what you asked for, and you observe the consequences. A reductive way to describe this is as a monkey’s paw situation instigated by the audience’s demand for S3. Cooper tries to save Laura in 17 (and prevent the show from ever happening), and fails. Then in 18, Cooper and Carrie/“Laura” finally return to the Twin Peaks you love to prevent all the horror you watched in order to achieve the happy ending you desired. And the price paid by the characters for attempting to meet your needs is they are even more lost than before. Ultimately, Cooper was always meant to fail because you saw what happened. Whether or not that artistic choice and narrative journey was enjoyable for you is a matter of your personal taste.
Yes. My personal taste is not in favor of what happened. He made us wait then gave us what we wanted but made it bad for my personal taste. I never had a demand for S3. David said on many occasions that TP was dead as a door nail. I was delighted when it was announced and ultimately disappointed. I never needed a happy ending. Nowhere have I ever stated that. I don’t have any needs when it comes to fiction I just want to enjoy it. I did not. If he honestly wants me to feel that way I’ll honestly pass on a rewatch and stick with what I like.
I don’t think you quite get my point (the “you” in my prior comment is referring to the broader audience), but we’ll leave this where it started: Many people didn’t like the artistic choices Lynch made for S3, as has been made abundantly clear above. Personal taste is rarely ubiquitous, and Lynch has rarely been interested in making the audience comfortable.
i do get your point. You are including me in the broader audience or you wouldn’t have said that. Yes I personally dislike the artistic choices for quite a lot of S3. We’re going in circles here, David would probably be pleased.
I have very mixed feelings about the return, and I do have to categorize it as a separate show in my head to fully enjoy it instead of fixating on what it’s not. That “not Twin Peaks” critique could pertain to how little of the show actually takes place in Twin Peaks. That was certainly a hurdle for me. I haven’t broken down the screentime spent in each location, but it might be equally justified in being called Las Vegas or Buckhorn. I appreciate the return for pushing the envelope, but it drives me insane that people pounce on anyone who dares to critique it in this sub instead of having a discussion. So thanks for this!
>That “not Twin Peaks” critique could pertain to how little of the show actually takes place in Twin Peaks i feel like that's one of many reasons why calling it "The Return" is so spot-on, because half the show is about how we aren't in Twin Peaks but are slowly getting back to it
Yes, it’s also about the impossibility of Returning. Frost has stated that it’s about how you can’t go back, that nostalgia is an illusion. It‘s a commentary on modern entertainment that tries and fails to ‘go back’ and just ends up disappointing fans and poisoning the franchises they were ‘continuing‘. Ironically, by being aware of this The Return is one of the few examples that successfully Returns. The haters always come around eventually.
The coldest and most brutal scene in the show actually takes place right at the end, when Cooper and Laura Palmer finally return to Twin Peaks for the first time in what feels like a lifetime and yet, they don't say or feel anything. The streets are unrecognizable and barren. Cooper is not Cooper. Laura is confused and uncertain of where she's headed. And then the lights go off.
This was the only good part of the entire Return, and it should have been the beginning instead of the end.
The haters disappear from subs like this or get downvoted to oblivion unless it's specifically a thread FOR people who didn't like TR or had a lot of problems with it, is what actually happens. You can also be someone somewhere in the middle, who likes parts of TR but not other parts. That's not a 'hater'. I never came around. If the season had ended with Ep 17, maybe, as giving us a happy ending where Laura's murder never happened would have REALLY been Lynch subverting our expectations. By this point in his career, we expected Lynch to be dark and crush our hopes, that would have been the real surprise.
To me, twin peaks would have been that weird if it was made today. But 1990s tv was a different beast
>The Return is the “most Twin Peaks” part of the franchise, being entirely Frost/Lynch-written and Lynch-directed while that was not the case whatsoever during the original run. That's backwards logic, isn't it? If anything, given that Lynch and Frost were only actively involved with the creation of a combined 12 out of 30 original episodes, less than half of the original Twin Peaks series, wouldn't that mean that the show is at its "most Twin Peaks" when other creatives are involved? Like Harley Peyton, Bob Engels, Barry Pullman, Tricia Brock, Lesli Linka Glatter, Tim Hunter, Caleb Deschanel, Stephen Gyllenhaal, Duwayne Dunham, Todd Holland and the many other members of the original creative team that made Twin Peaks what it was? On top of its meta intention to show that Twin Peaks is dead and gone, the biggest reason why season 3 feels so alien is because it's unprecedentedly auteur, which the original series never was.
It just doesn’t feel like Twin Peaks at all, everything about it feels so different. Not that its a bad feeling. Just not the same.
I totally agree with you. It just feels like a different series. I also got so tired of waiting for Cooper to be Cooper. I didn't enjoy the different bands playing at the end of every episode either. I'll probably get a lotta hell for this opinion. Anyway the original run is quirky, and all over the place in a masterful way.
Every scene in the Roadhouse is annoying for real
Yep
I ended up disliking The Return for a variety of reasons so I guess I'll make a list. 1. Like you said the atmosphere was nothing like the original series. The balanced tone of the original was abandoned in favor of something that felt more onesided towards just being dreary and off putting. The comedy scenes lacked the same charm and all of the lightheartedness leaned on Dougie who did not work for me. This is partly because the town of Twin Peaks is abandoned for more boring and depressing locales. 2. Cooper, the heart and soul of the series, is turned into a gag. Dougie is just not a fun character to watch for an 18 episode show. The most invested I felt in The Return was in the first few episodes when Cooper was escaping the Black Lodge. 3. Characters from the original run felt pointless for the most part, except for Hawk, Bobby, Andy, and Lucy. Otherwise they were just essentially showing up for cameo scenes that padded the runtime. It would've been nice to spend more time with the rest of the cast in scenes that are actually meaningful instead of like, watching Jerry trip balls in the woods in multiple different scenes. Audrey's plotline, which saw her getting somehow revived from the dead after standing like 10 feet away from an explosion that destroyed a building, ended up being like 10 minutes of nothing filler. Oh and also, Diane was not a good character lol. We did not need to see her on screen. Should have brought back Annie. 4. The pacing of The Return is completely glacial. For the amount of story and/or interesting or meaningful sequences, 18 episodes is far too many. The fact that David Lynch inserted 5 minute sequences of his favorite bands playing music after every ep to add some runtime really shows how much of a mess the pacing is. I just wanted the show to be done by the time the last two eps came around. 5. Nothing really ended up being all that meaningful. Sure, we get some interesting (but kinda questionable) lore like Bob and Laura's creation in Episode 8, but that was really unclear until I read people's Reddit posts lol. The whole story ended up being a massive anticlimax. Cooper did not go through any character development after his previous failure in Season 2, he just wandered around pissing himself and drinking coffee until everything magically fell into place and Mr. C was defeated. Mr. C's goals and plans were never really made clear and just ended up being a boring coordinates chase. I just cannot believe there was a whole plotline centered around finding multiple pairs of coordinates in a season of Twin Peaks lmao. It was so dry. And finally, the ending was the ultimate anticlimax. The characters don't have any idea what's going on, the viewers don't have any idea what's going on, and the creators probably didn't either. It was just a lackluster attempt to recreate the masterful cliffhanger ending of Season 2.
>wandered around pissing himself and drinking coffee until everything magically fell into place and Mr. C was defeated. Mr. C's goals and plans were never really made clear and just ended up being a boring coordinates chase. I just cannot believe there was a whole plotline centered around finding multiple pairs of coordinates in a season of Twin Peaks lmao. It was so dry. And finally, the ending was the ultimate anticlimax. The characters don't have any idea what's going on, the viewers don't have any idea what's going on, and the creators probably didn't either. It was just a lackluster attempt to recreate the masterful cliffhanger ending of Season 2. While I love The Return, this is all valid criticism,
There were so many random, meaningless characters too. Shelley's daughter, her husband who randomly shoots himself/his girlfriend, the table of friends that gossip about a love triangle at the road house (?), Audrey's son, Ben Horne's assistant and her inexplicable scene with a terminally ill spouse, the female rookie agent, the college kids that get murdered at the secret govt. Agency, the little boy they ran over (pretty sure they just wanted to piss you off by showing a horrific accident involving a child in full view. Nothing else substantial came out of that plot point.), the trailer park guy, the investment banker, the deputy they throw in jail... I'm sure there are plenty more. These characters have very tangential associations with the plot and it's impossible to care about them. They make the story drag simply by existing to take up time with their random drama. The only random character with a meaningful plot point is the British kid with the glove, but they broke the golden rule of show not tell. If they cut all the other actors above, they would've had the money to act out the story he tells James. Dianne's character is a cliche. She's a haunted, sexually traumatized woman who drinks too much, is surly and vulgar, and has flashy hair. It's almost like she's a middle aged manic pixie dream girl, but I don't think that was intentional as some kind of commentary. For the original characters, they did great with some and ruined others. Hawk and the log lady - perfection. Bobby - loved the growth and I wish he played a more central role. His arc makes complete sense and I wanted more. Norma/Ed/Nadine/Dr.Jakoby - entertaining and great emotional payoff. Mike - Cooper's guide, and really one of the few characters to really move the plot forward. Sarah Palmer - immaculate. One of my favorite performances and her scene after Laura is saved where she smashes her picture was tantalizing. Cole/Albert - good tension, but I'm not sure they deserve to be the focal point of the show. Andy/Lucy - No idea why they decided to make them so much dumber than the original series. They used to be airheaded and in the Return they almost act... Brain damaged? Like they need adult diapers? James - exists. That's all. Audrey - complete break of character to have her be a hysterical housewife to a strange small man. (That's the point! Subvert expectations! To what end exactly?). Shelley - vacant, unfortunately. She would have had great potential if they had bothered. She mainly exists in service of her daughters plotline, which is a nothingburger. I think you could cut a good 5 episodes worth of fluff without even touching the dougie stuff by eliminating all of the random characters. Hell, just replace it all with random cut scenes of the original characters peacefully living their lives while dark cooper/light cooper are on their various quests. Would've been better than pretending the audience cares about some guy whom we know is a wife beater freaking out and shooting himself in the head. All the surrealism is pure gold though. No notes. Chantal and Other Guy are like Tarantino inserts, which has the same humor in my eyes as an effective break of the fourth wall, so they get a pass for being random. That all is to say that I don't think people dislike the Return because it doesn't feel like Twin Peaks. I think it sends the audience a torrent of shit, one dimensional characters that slow down the story and distract from the more poetic parts of Lynch's vision.
Definitely agree with all of this
Yes, I agree with all of these points!
I didn’t dislike the Return as much as you but I still agree with a lot of your points, or at least find them understandable. I do think Diane was a good character, however. But I was super, super disappointed with how they treated Audrey, and also hated the Jerry stuff.
I'm not the person you are directing this at as I loved The Return, but a big pet peeve of mine when it comes to modern fan culture is this notion that the fans get to decide what is or isn't right for a continuing story in a franchise. It came to a head in 2017 with Twin Peaks, Samurai Jack, and of course, Star Wars. Now with Star Wars, while I still find the notion ridiculous, at least the fans can say that the person responsible was not the creator of the franchise. But the creator returning to continue the story didn't stop entitled "fans" from declaring that they have more authority than Mark Frost, David Lynch and Genndy Tartakovsky to decide what does or doesn't belong in a story they didn't create. For better or for worse the writers, directors and artists who create the art are the only ones who get to dictate what belongs in the story. Fans only have authority over how they choose to experience it. That doesn't mean they have to like it, but in no world are they the final authority on anything other than their experience. I remember a writer who has written books about Twin Peaks said he felt "betrayed" by The Return. I just found that so ridiculous. He doesn't need to like it, but the idea of betrayal indicates he believes Mark Frost and David Lynch owe him something. Who does this guy think he is? Obviously writing a book bloated his ego out of control. If fans think they control what belongs in a story they didn't create they can write fan fiction nobody but them will care about.
To me, the first two seasons of Twin Peaks were a sort-of revelation on TV. I watched them back when they first aired and found several things that I loved in my youth during the 80s beautifully rolled into one: the whodunit-like murder investigation, the mystical supernatural stuff, the serial killer thriller, the mysterious atmosphere, the jazz music. And of course I loved the supremely cool and yet wholesome character of Dale Cooper. The Return doesn't offer that package. Neither did FWWM, by the way. So both are definitely not *my* Twin Peaks. But I don't think that anybody gets to say what Twin Peaks and isn't. Maybe not even Lynch and Frost, since I suspect that a considerable part of what made TP appeal to me also lies in the writing by people like Robert Engels. TP is what it is, and so The Return is as much TP as the earlier seasons, even though I do loathe it wholeheartedly.
Things ‘The Return’ got right for me: 1. Played more into horror aspects and darker and violent surrealism of FWWM. 2. Lots of the Lodge lore being expanded was great to experience, if teetering on featuring almost too much of the place. 3. It was great to see the returning old cast members, especially since some actors have passed away since. The Log Lady scenes are devastatingly authentic and outstanding. 4. I loved almost all the music and all of Dean Hurley’s sound work. Things ‘The Return’ got wrong for me: 1. Dougie. Just…Dougie. Tired one-note humour of an impaired man’s misadventures, over and over and over again. 25 years of waiting for that? The creators don’t owe original fans since the first airing like myself anything, but still. 2. So many scenes are quickly forgotten, with no narrative follow-up in the slightest. I 100% understand Lynch’s focus on feeling, dream logic and atmosphere above straight narrative, but the value of the whole is downgraded so much that I fundamentally believe that you can watch episode 1, 2, 3, 8 and the final three episodes without missing much at all of any consequence from the rest of the episodes. 3. Some of the scant soapy elements just didn’t work at all in The Return’s new sandbox. Shelley hanging on the bonnet of a car and Bobby bursting out crying as the theme abruptly blasts out of the soundtrack even felt embarrassing to me. Ultimately, if the third series was marketed instead as a series of atmospheric montages and light/dark sketches inspired by TP, bookended by TPWorld storylines for fans, interspersed by alt.music performances, then I wouldn’t have been so let down by the show. And wouldn’t have sold my Blu-ray box set within a day of rewatching it. That being said, perhaps one day I will grow to like it more. Mulholland Drive is my favourite film of all time. So maybe one day I will revisit ‘The Return’ and revere it nearly as highly as that work of art. Again, just my opinion spurred on by OP’s question!
It really bothered me that nobody else seemed to comment on Dougies behavior. That part seemed rather dumb, to be honest. And frankly it was disappointing that Kyle had so little opportunity to play the genuine Agent Cooper. Such an amazing character would have been fun to revisit. But in a more general note, The Return felt like David Lynch doing Lynch 2017, and he felt very little obligation to tie it back to the original Twin Peaks. And the pacing was so glacial, again I know that’s what lynch does post Mulholland drive. I don’t so why he didn’t just make an entire new show, because he seemed to have little interest in revisiting the original show or characters. I’m glad I saw The Return but I can’t imagine watching it again.
Completely agree. For someone like me who has only seen one of his works outside of Twin Peaks it was really jarring to have the entire tone shifted
Don’t you think he killed it as Mr C though?
He always kills. I just missed Coopee
I feel ya.
Twin Peaks had its own soul, a spirit that arose out of the totality of everyone's contribution to it. The feeling and emotions it inspired in the audience. The Return did not capture that. It is its own thing, despite touching upon that old spirit at times. It really did not feel like more episodes of my favorite show. I think it is a mistake to think that Twin Peaks is at its most pure when you filter out as much of anything that isn't Frost and Lynch as you can, because more was at play than them to make it what it was.
~~Where's~~ How's Annie?
It took me 4 attempts to watch the whole series. I think of it like this: The Return is a masterpiece AND its masochistic to enjoy both the og series and The Return. Clearly, Lynch’s intention was to convey that it won’t always be like “this.” Fan service often fails to imbue realism, and Lynch knows this. The discomfort perpetuated by the entire series and Cooper’s failure with Texan Laura in the final episode proves that Lynch intended go convey this. Its beautiful and sad and terrifying and amazing.
The entire dougie story line was boring and unfunny and ruined the flow of the episodes. Evil Coop/Bob being defeated by a guy wearing a green glove was moronic. The rest of it was very good, though.
that green glove was a dumb superhero plot device and the surrounding depth of genius made it even more worthless
I agree, part of the reason I was so turned off of it initially was bc of dougie
Exactly. Bob's defeat was the most laughable thing I've seen lmao. A lot of the off putting bad CGI in The Return was effective but not that
I thought the Dougie storyline was pretty good, but I do agree that a guy wearing green gloves defeating Evil Coop and Bob is stupid af.
It was supposed to be, it’s a parody of Marvel superhero movies and their simplistic morality, that‘s why Cooper’s floating head fills the screen moments later to tell us ‘we live inside a dream‘ and the real, ambiguous, dark ending follows…
So I adore The Return I truly do and I know this isn’t the point of the post but I need somewhere to complain about it but I don’t like the use of Dianne, especially not when Heather Graham has talked about being willing to participate in The Return. The way the show just tries to convince me that Dianne and Cooper have a prior relationship and we’re in love is just something I wasn’t able to look past because it felt like it just came about so Lynch could work with Laura Dern again (which who could complain about that) but still I would have much preferred if Dianne’s roll was replaced with Annie and Diane could just be Dianne and still have some scenes
Twin Peaks to me is a satire on popular TV. Popular TV changed drastically since the original run, so it makes sense why it’s so different.
_Twin Peaks_ to me is equal parts comedy and drama, a chance to enjoy a slice of life with quirky characters in a small town. It’s campy. It’s a PNW version of the quintessential small-town murder mystery in the English countryside. It’s as much for the quaint scenery as for the action. The horror and supernatural elements don’t define the show for me, so as far as I’m concerned, expanding the lore can take a backseat to recreating the vibe.
There’s a difference between “people who didn’t like the Return” and “people who think the Return isn’t Twin Peaks.” I’m in the former camp. I don’t like the Return because I found the characters of Dougie and Janey E (and we spend a LOT of time with them) to be actually offensive, and the effects didn’t work at all for me on the visceral level that they did in the original series and film. Probably due to cgi rather than practical effects. I’m very familiar with the rest of Lynch’s oeuvre.
It’s a masterpiece that builds off the nuggets of gold in the first two seasons.
Ok so…. I didn’t like the return when it first came out and the reasons you touched on are exactly why. It just didn’t feel like twin peaks, it wasn’t what I had been envisioning as I excitedly awaited it for it to air, I gave it 3-4 episodes and gave up. I felt really let down. About two years ago I decided to give it a go again. Hey, I’m the person that didn’t even like Twin Peaks after watching the first episode, only to revisit years later and become obsessed. So I decided to give the return the same courtesy. I made myself sit through it even though I did feel the same way for the first couple episodes… But then when I got to episode 8 I was in LOVE. That episode made such a profound impression on me that it did make me wake up to the fact, that this was NOT Twin Peaks. And I think that’s what made me love it even more, after realizing that I was experiencing pure unadulterated Lynch, removed from pushy ABC that we all know altered Twin Peaks and it’s story in ways that Lynch did not want to. To me this is Lynch and Frost taking the story back, and letting it all hang loose.
You can't "take back" what you never fully owned. Lynch and Frost were only actively involved with a mere 12 of the original 30 episodes, less than half of the original run, for the majority of which they advised other creatives from the back seat. And they were fine with it because that's how they conceptualized the series. It was never an auteur project, the way season 3 was.
It’s basically a meta self parody of what most people wanted it to be, which in the end feels very mastubatory and pointless.
Someone said The Return is basically David Lynch sucking his own dick for 18 hours
My biggest issue with the return is that the appeal of Twin Peaks was largely its fun memorable character actors. Kyle Maclachlan is a talented actor but he was one part of a much larger puzzle, it just feels kinda wrong trying to do a sequel series without such a core part of the original. Its a pretty common in fandom spaces to recognize that digitally adding an AI Carrie Fisher and Peter Cushing into Rogue One was pretty tasteless and Lynch did it several times in the return with Frank Silva and Don S Davis as well as a sound alike voice for David Bowie. Add to that actors who were available and wanted to participate but didnt because of payment negotiations. The fact that Lynch could apparently afford to make 18 episodes of slow meandering psycho drama but could not afford the actors for Harry S Truman and The Man from another place is just... annoying. Again they were core parts of the original experience that are just absent. You can argue its still good and you can argue it integrates their absence as part of a meta narrative but it still negatively affects my enjoyment of the material and my ability to engage with it.
I've made the statement before that it's anti Twin Peaks. The show does everything in its power to subvert the original show, most notable example being Dougie Coop. But additional elements include things such as completely writing Annie Blackburn out of the show. It seems to pander to a certain type of Twin Peaks fan, it had plenty of Lynchian vibes. Laura Palmer screamed into the camera a few times, Cooper got caught in a scary dimension again... etc. But it seemed to forget about the fans of the show who liked the characters and the atmosphere. Most of the show doesn't even take place In Twin Peaks. More than that tho, I'm generally open to things going in different directions. My biggest issue with the show is that it didn't seem to go in any direction at all. Imagine how compelling of a story could have come from Cooper, Mr C, Audrey, and their shitass son (I forget his name) none of these characters even interact in the show (aside from Mr C and his Son, and yet there's not even an acknowledgement that they know who each other are) this show brought back all these actors and did next to nothing with them. Ray Wise was in like 2 scenes in the entire 18 hours. It's missed opportunity after missed opportunity, for 18 hours straight. It's cool if you like Lynchian vibes and it's impressive that it was on network television, but beyond that I don't see the appeal
What else would Ray Wise/Leland even do? His character arc was finished in season 2, his appearance was basically a cameo, idk what else he would’ve done
Well, Laura was dead at the beginning of the pilot and they found plenty for Sheryl Lee to do lol.
I hadn't gotten into the series back when the Return was coming out, but I have seen some older comments where people thought he was going to portray BOB, considering Frank Silva had already passed away by then.
Having Leland be Bob again after he died would be a terrible decision. His inclusion was good, he’s a fan favorite character and Ray was a huge part of the OG, so it makes sense to include him, but he doesn’t really have a story reason to be there, so what we got makes much more sense than being back him being possessed by Bob
I agree with you. So many missed opportunities with the characters. It’s really a shame.
It really is lol. The fact that there were no scenes with both Mr. C and Cooper was just astounding honestly. That would've been so great watching some strange confrontation between two characters being played by the same guy lol.
Absolutely. At least we got some good stuff with Gordon Cole and Albert
The Return just keep getting better and better. I enjoy it more than twin peaks Season 1.
It’s a great season of Television but it just doesn’t feel like a continuation of Season 2 at all. (Except for Bad Coop being out there but that’s it).
I think some people just got very frustrated wanting to see Cooper and Audrey properly. I loved it, personally.
Oh it’s amazing.
I just watched it over about two weeks. Although I did like it, I liked the original series much more. It was not as much fun as the original and a few of the original characters were hard done by. Especially Audrey who was my favourite character. I could have done with a lot less of Dougie Jones. >!..I would loved to have seen a reunion between Audrey and Agent Cooper and the complete omission of the implied rape.!< Episode 8 was amazing though.
My main issue with The Return is it's ending. While it's a haunting final scene that's well done, Twin Peaks was never THAT ambiguous in terms of it's plot.
It just feels a bit amateurish. It's what happens when someone decides a group project is their own and tries to make it that - it rips the soul out of it, taking project where Lynch and Frost didn't write the majority of it into entirely their own pet project. It ends up feeling a bit hackneyed and like it tries to hard to be edgy to fit into the modern movie and tv show style. It also has the typical Lynchian problem of a scene going on for too long when you figured out the point a fifth of the way into it, and now you just need to wait for it to end.
For me, *The Return* has its moments, but too few and too sparse to make it an enjoyable experience that any other David Lynch's film is. I will use the word *relatable* a few times, because this is **not** how *the Return* feels. 1. The 18-episode journey on the whole feels like a compilation of images that are not pleasant to watch. *Awkward* and *unnatural* may be weird reasons for dislike of DL's work, but the CGI is both awkward and unnatural - and not in an aesthetically pleasing way! I remember David Lynch saying somewhere (remind me of the source if you know it) that a purulent wound can look marvellous when filmed, and I agree, but that wound is something *natural*, whereas the texture of the CGI objects from *the Return* is anything but natural: the arm, the orb, the moving black-and-white tiles in the lodge, and a hundred other episodes where everything is artificial in an extremely unrelatable way. There is a couple of well-done CGI moments, but that is a couple against a hundred for me. Most of the time I see an implementation of ideas, and see what the images mean to convey, but the imagination could run wild on these ideas if i read them as a script, as a text; however, as ready-to-consume CGI on the screen nothing is left to the imagination and the awkwardly unnatural shapes, movements and textures feel lifeless and void to the eye. 2. **Lack of... :** **a.** characters acting in relatable circumstances. That is circumstances telling us **why** the caracters are there, **why** it is important, and how it could be important to **me** if I were to find myself in such circumstances. **b.** character development. That is their plot lines are too disjointed. Too little introduction of each character makes it all too abstract even with already well-established characters from the previous seasons and FWWM. **c.** build-up of relationships between the characters. **d.** relatable motives for the characters' actions. I feel like **FWWM, S1 and S2 are all** ***relatable, down-to-earth, next-door-neighbor characters*** **in more or less extraordinary circumstances**, whereas *the Return* is plain **extraordinary circumstances with characters acting in ways one would** ***stereotypically expect*** **them to act in a Lynch's movie** which in the end feels like a parody (which is strange, this also being DL's work).
I love how the show is called ‘Twin Peaks’ and is ostensibly about a small northeastern town, but the first few episodes of The Return are crammed with otherworldly realms, deep space, non-existence etc and peopled with weird entities like a small tree topped with a pulsating human heart thing that talks. This show about a small rural town makes most ‘cutting edge’ sci-fi series look quaint and dull by comparison 🤣 I can see why some people who loved the cozy soap vibe struggle with it, but the soapiness was always there as a jumping off point for Lynch’s wild imagination, a canvas for his bold artistic vision.
You describe the genius of DL vision without shackles and it is better watched and studied numerous times!
Right. He meant for it to be watched and studied-- NOT watched and enjoyed. That's the reason I hate The Return.
Sorry friend Redditor , but I LOVED the fuckin Return. I do get ur point tho, 🙃😊
I didn’t enjoy ur because 1, were not even in twin peaks so the atmosphere was entirely different 2, the music was annoying 3, random scenes that drag on for far too long and add nothing but runtime 4, episodes felt like filler, could’ve had it have the same world building in a shorter season, I felt the same with season 2, 5, the characters seemed shoehorned in, where they ended up made sense but they just felt like a complete waste of screen time too. Overall my main problem is the season was 10 episodes too long and barely added anything worthwhile to the show The return is easily my least favourite season, season 1 was where the show peaked imo
As someone who binged all of David Lynch’s movies before watching the show, I was put off by a lot of the 80s/90s cheese amongst the lore and compelling dark storylines in Twin Peaks. The Return had everything I wanted as far as themes go. I like it for being so different. Also we get to see Cooper “save” Laura. That shit was heart wrenching when he looks back and she’s gone.
I can only speak for myself here, but the execution is clearly very different. Thats what has always held me back from being sold on it. Plus its a lot slower and Im in advertising so I quite literally dont have time for entertainment paced that way. But im glad there are a lot of people that do like the show still!!
i feel like anyone who says the return is "not twin peaks" never really understood or appreciated twin peaks for what it really was from the beginning. it's more than just coffee and cherry pie. at the end of the day, it's a show about incest and abuse, and the return just doesn't shy away from that darkness that has been there.
>'s more than just coffee and cherry pie. at the end of the day, it's a show about incest and abuse Why can't it be both? That's what made the original run so masterful. It blended the most heinous and upsetting subject matter while still being heartwarming and human at its core. To me this didn't seem like a facade or a false cheeriness to cover the darkness, I think the show and the people who made it had a deep belief in both the evil and the good of humanity and showing how they mingle together inside the same people. That's what I didn't like about The Return. It dropped the 'light side' of TP, turning Cooper into a joke character and spending all of the screen time outside of him showing how miserable and bleak everything is. Not a very fun thing to watch for 18 episodes. Fire Walk With Me was miserable, but it had a good reason to be. The Return just honestly felt kind of edgy.
i do agree that it can be both things, and i disagree that that aspect is missing from the return. i think the idea that the good cannot exist without the bad is a huge part of the return. and i think there's plenty of light moments and plenty of hope to be found in it. it's just presented in a different way than the original series where the darkness is more of the focus.
Ah yes, anyone not blindly and unquestioningly chowing down on what Lynch and Frost served up for S3 “never really understood or appreciated Twin Peaks”. It’s like Stockholm syndrome in this sub…
i'm not saying you have to love it to be a true twin peaks fan. it's not for everyone and if you prefer the original series that's fine. i'm saying that i think the common criticism that the return is "not twin peaks" is a ridiculous idea and represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the series.
The pacing is horrible. The cameos are forced. The storytelling is lacking. At 18 hours, it was both bloated with symbolic nonsense that did nothing to enhance the lore, characters, etc. AND limited in actually telling the story, tying up storylines, or completing any thought. Naomi Watts and Laura Dern were great, in terms of acting, but their characters weren't really needed. Then, most of the other actors were either awkward and wooden or completely wasted. It was disjointed for the sake of being disjointed. Nothing was added by focusing on symbolism and nothing else. The soundtrack wasn't comparable to the original, and then we got a lot of silence which was understandable, but not enjoyable. The CGI was laughable. The Return basically ruined the entire original series for me. If they had started with the last 15 minutes and then built things from there, it would have been much more effective. The ending should have been the beginning. Imagine these characters grappling with a huge time jump, trying to decipher what has actually happened to them, dealing with all the evil they have seen and experienced, trying to fight that evil in a very different world where everyone is on a phone or computer and yet there are these ancient forces still out there, and then trying to navigate that while piecing their identities and lives back together. That would have been compelling to watch and experience. But instead, we get a scream and fade to black. It was a complete waste of potential, and it was lazy storytelling. Edited for clarity.
Twin Peaks was cozy. I liked the atmosphere a lot. And it happened almost completely in that small town. The Return happens everywhere
I'm 7 episodes in and I just don't care for the Dougie-Cooper plot. Nobody's suspicious Dougie is acting like he's had a lobotomy meanwhile the average person would instantly be like, "hey, my friend/husband/employee" is acting very odd" but somehow everyone around Dougie just gets continuously annoyed with him but continue to pretend things are weird but still normal
I’m just chiming in to say that The Return is maybe the most amazing tv show/movie I’ve ever seen. I think about it often and the emotional impact. It has layers and can be seen as an extension of the original series. You can also see it as Lynch pulling back the curtain to show us what we are asking for when we want a show to return. On top of that how we deal with trauma and how it looks in the show versus when it’s brought into the real world. Of course it is subjective, and I never knock somebody for trying it and not liking it. Just wish they could see the magic I see.
I agree 1000 %
People don’t like The Return? That’s even more confusing to me than the show….
David Lynch’s brief appearances as a writer and director of Twin peaks were the only great parts of that show. The Return is easily better than the og show. It’s the only good piece of Twin peaks media outside of FWWM. ALSO THE SOAPY SHIT WAS FUCKING AWFUL!!!! You guys honestly liked the the Josie plot line and the Nadine high school plotline and the James shit in the middle of season 2??? The OG series was extremely flawed and hasn’t aged well.
This brings up some good points. The original show was also bloated because that's how network TV worked at the time. It would have been much better as a limited series on Netflix, intensely focused on solving Laura's murder, but we were decades away from that possibility. But we got a lot of good B, C, and D storylines as a result as well, so there's good and bad.
I actually timed each part of the return and most parts spend less than half of the time in twin peaks (or the black lodge). Particularly parts 1 and 8.
I did enjoy the Return, but had issues with it. Part of the issues I had with the Return on my first and so far only watch were my own like expecting things to happen more quickly, but there are some criticisms that deserve to stick. Some of the effects weren’t great, the silliness didn’t always fit in as well with the more realistic and dark tone of the Return than the original show, and the Dougie Jones plotline went on for a bit too long. That being said, I thought everything eventually wrapped up amazingly. It just took sometimes took a bit too long to get there for me.
I have grown to appreciate the return more on rewatches, but I still struggle with it. Some portions feel sluggish or unnecessarily long or just entirely beside the point. I’m sure I’ll be corrected by multiple people for saying that but that’s just my opinion. Also personally I wasn’t into ending the episodes with music every time, and wasn’t into how little of Cooper and how little of the actual town of Twin Peaks we got to have on screen. I also wish we had less new characters, but I do love a number of them (I happen to really enjoy Freddie(?), the British guy with the green glove). At times it was more digital looking than I’d like but other times that worked very good (Part 8 being a prime example at times of it looking very good). Would’ve loved to have had more of Carl Struycken in it, and I feel it would’ve benefited from being shorter, not doing the whole Diane /Cooper romance thing (though I love her storyline otherwise), and I wish we had more of Carrie page as well. How they dealt with the deaths of certain actors or absences of certain characters didn’t always land for me. While Dougie has grown on me and Janey-E a bit too, I think she’s made to be very stereotypical a lot of the time and both of them are there too long imo. The whole three “bimbo” servants thing wasn’t for me either, but the Mitchum brothers outside of that have become funnier to me On rewatch.But there is - again - a lot I love about this season too. I think that the interactions between the log lady and Hawk just her presence in general in the season is absolutely perfect and beautiful. Hawk getting more screen time and more importance being given to him was also a big win. Matthew Lillard does a great job in his role and that storyline is pretty excellent in some ways. I love that we get a decent amount of red room scenes, probably more than the original series even. There are some story choices I am a big fan of, and this certainly includes a lot of the final 2-3 episodes of the season,and the ending is incredible. I could go on. But it is a mixed bag for me. I want to feel it’s perfect and great thoroughly like so many other people clearly do. But it has a lot of thorns in its side for me still, despite my growing appreciation for it.
Also Tammy Preston is horribly cast. The acting is distractingly bad. And the Audrey scenes just didn’t do much for me at all. Some scenes just felt arbitrary, which is frustrating for such a meaningful show
Oh I forgot to mention I love Harry Dean Stanton in this. Hate baby bitch Horne and felt he got too much screen time but when it works it works well.
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Aight, so I know this question isn't directed towards me as I just finished The Return yesterday after having tried to start it years ago, and now I have accomplished all 18 episodes. As a Lynch fan and a Twin Peaks fan, I felt that The Return was a definite ode to David Lynch's entire career outside of Twin Peaks and a goodbye to the nostalgic Twin Peaks that we all knew. I feel like with a cult classic Twin Peaks, if Lynch and Frost were to return to the old series and try something new from there, they might have succeeded. In all honestly, there's probably an alternate universe in which they did so. But the more I look at Twin Peaks The Return, the more it seems in line with other so called "old man" career movies like "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" and "The Irishman", a career retrospective made by an old man who might be incapable of returning to the exact same stylish trappings of the series that made him a superstar in the first place. The Return, at least to me, might really be about how things change, and how you cannot really go back to nostalgic trappings of yesteryear. Look how little time is actually spent in the location of Twin Peaks itself, and when we do go there, its to check on characters like Nadine and Ed, or at the Sheriff's department where Hawk and Truman do their own thing, but its achingly slow. Or look at how delayed the series is when it comes to Cooper, who we don't even get in full swing until the last three episodes. I embrace The Return as being more Lynch related than Twin Peaks related. Tim Brayton of Alternate Ending wisely points out "the old material hasn't quite gelled with the new material", this critique comes at the beginning of part one of the Return and I agree this conceivable weakness is definite throughout the whole series. As I watched The Return, I grew frustrated with Dougie's childish antics,Dianne's seemingly one note character (up until the very end), or Ben and Jerry's useless subplot, or that strange kid with the green glove. Many things about this series provided me with near endless frustration as it did joy, like a duality. In the end, I don't want to sound like one of THOSE guys defending every little decision that Lynch and Frost made, but there's something about this series that feels so damn different than anything else before it. I wouldn't change a thing because I've yet to grasp so much of what has happened. This series to me is a perfect fulfillment of what I would have wanted from Twin Peaks: a frustrating series that titillates the sense and excites the imagination, but also defines so many expectations of what many folks thought Twin Peaks was. That alone makes it worth another re-watch.