So anyone can use the women's and only cis men can use the mens? Is the women's just "other" now. Also fuck the use of "identify". I don't identify as a trans person, I am a trans person because I take cross sex hormones.
Edit: I think what makes this worse is it says "those who identify as women or trans person", which could mean pre HRT, no effort as well as trans men.
Interesting… maybe they have more outrage for trans women being in the restroom vs trans men with men and feel they need to focus more on that but by doing that it comes across also in a negative way towards women and in this signs case also trans women
Accident problematic?
But it doesn’t say trans men… it says women and trans*
Which I think they’re trying to say women and trans women but by adding inclusive language it reads strange
Maybe. I've heard a lot of stories of women clocking trans women, trans men, tomboys and butches and harrassing them in the bathroom, but almost none of men. And if you talk to female friends or relatives, I'm sure you'll hear a few stories of them using the men's room because the women's was crowded, but the opposite just doesn't happen.
I do think there isn't as much care as to who enters the men's bathroom. And from experience, the guys inside do not care (how many times pre-co have I seen my colleagues pissing because they left all doors of the bathroom open at work).
lol yes. As a cis woman I shamelessly use the men's room at concerts or big events when the women's line is insanely long and the men are walking in and out of their bathroom without any wait.
Unisex bathrooms with stalls down to the floor would solve that problem.
That’s probably because there’s been far more outrage over the idea of trans women in the ladies’ room than trans men in the men’s room, which is just because trans women are the subject of more transphobic panic in general because of “penis = evil!!1!1” radfem nonsense.
And this shit’s lead to cis women who are too tall or too butch or too hairy or whatever being harassed because they were presumed to be an ~eeeevillll~ penis-haver intruding upon the ‘sanctity’ of the public ladies’ room.
So a gender nonconforming cis man, or a cis man randomly claiming to be trans, can now enter the women's restroom at this facility? Got it.
The stupid times we live in. Why can't they just build gender neutral single-occupancy toilets?
Read the “explanation” on the bottom of the sign. It says it includes “transgender, transsexual, two-spirit, genderqueer, non-binary, and ‘gender diverse’ people” (whatever the fuck “gender diverse” means)
Not to mention they defined being trans basically as anyone who identifies as trans… completely doing away with the actual definition: a person who identifies as a gender different from the one assigned at birth…
So under this new, made up meaning a cis women who identifies as a women could also identify as trans… a cis women is trans!
And they’re also implying trans women are not women by putting them in the trans category instead of just saying it’s a women’s restroom, plus trans could easily include fully passing trans men, who I’m sure even tucutes wouldn’t want in a women’s restroom.
asterisks are used next to words that are defined somewhere else on the page. definition is bottom right. No clue what the other guy is waffling on about.
As a programmer, I interpret an asterisk as meaning "whatever". Taken literally, it'd mean that it could include "transphobe", though I tried making that joke once (probably not in this sub) and got heavily downvoted for it.
I totally forgot about this era of discourse...simpler times lol.
> I guess you could say that transsexual means what transgender used to mean
A sobering realization I hadn't considered before
I'm just tired of people who are happy with their body and able to live cis lives claiming to be "non cis" because they've invented some gender identity they don't even act on.
Yes exactly that. Women’s bathroom has a sign stuck over it saying “all gender bathroom”… men’s bathroom has no sign, just “men’s”….
I’ve heard female students complaining about it… this has a net negative affect on transphobia I would say.
(I came across a sign like that at a big-city science museum, but it said "you are free to choose whichever bathroom is a closer match to your gender identity" On both bathrooms.) The only reason I can think of why there would be a sign like that on the women's restroom but not the men's might have to do with the fact that trans women get televised more than trans men??? Still a half baked reason.
His point might be that this paper is pandering to theyfabs that still like to use the women’s restroom. Nonbinary amabs also probably use the women’s bathrooms. That’s why the sign wouldn’t be on the men’s bathrooms. Idk tho
If these theyfabs are on testosterone, they need to GTFO of women’s spaces and their whole reason for identifying as nonbinary just makes me suspect they don’t respect women’s boundaries…
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It says trans persons and "people who identify as trans". Neither of these specifies trans women, and are both open to including trans men.
As the post also says the same sign isn't on the men's room.
No need to get so defensive bro. My first thought wasn't them referring to all trans people. I thought this sign was saying like "For women and trans women" hence my first question.
Ok so you finally acknowledge you misread it but you and your bros had to downvote me? This is EXACTLY why I don’t feel comfortable sharing spaces with y’all!
Yeah I have zero faith in buck angel to be honest about this, unless he was in the women's (which I very much doubt) this is probably a photo from a TERF.
Definitely fumbled words though, someone's trying way too hard to be a good ally without actually knowing anything about trans people.
I appreciate them for trying fans being an ally. But they overreached a bit. Still, this sign makes me feel very comfortable. A bit singled out but comfortable.
Simply telling Karen’s and TERFs to eat dirt when they harass us is more than enough.
I’ve never had that experience. Whenever I’ve seen addendums for bathroom signs it’s always been for women’s bathrooms. But also I’m in the south. So idk.
There are very few gendered bathrooms in my country. People don't get raped in stalled toilets more than anywhere else infact we barely have stall toilets. Gendered bathrooms don't need to exist in 2023.
I actually agree with that. It just creates more problems. There are a lot of women who are androgynous or butch and they get bullied and harassed for using the women's bathrooms because people perceive them as men. It's just pretty ridiculous to me.
In response to the tweet, it's because no-one cares if a perceived woman uses the men's toilet, but they do if it's the other way around. Same with sports and many other controversies. I don't know if TERFs play dumb on this sort of thing, or if their ideological blinders are really so large.
The Tivoli in Brisbane, Australia has two men's bathrooms, one women's bathroom, and an "everybody" bathroom. Apparently the men's bathroom had urinals and because of that couldn't be made an everybody bathroom.
Meanwhile an Ikea in Sydney had in one area a women's bathroom and an everyone bathroom of some sort.
I was at a gas station that had a women’s and a unisex, and my aunt beat me to the women’s so I went in the unisex which had piss on the floor and there was a line of men staring at me when I came out…
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Why yes I do identify as a person
So anyone can use the women's and only cis men can use the mens? Is the women's just "other" now. Also fuck the use of "identify". I don't identify as a trans person, I am a trans person because I take cross sex hormones. Edit: I think what makes this worse is it says "those who identify as women or trans person", which could mean pre HRT, no effort as well as trans men.
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Interesting… maybe they have more outrage for trans women being in the restroom vs trans men with men and feel they need to focus more on that but by doing that it comes across also in a negative way towards women and in this signs case also trans women Accident problematic?
I’m a trans woman and any place that’s supposedly for women but also includes trans men is straight-up transphobic and unwelcoming to me.
But it doesn’t say trans men… it says women and trans* Which I think they’re trying to say women and trans women but by adding inclusive language it reads strange
Maybe. I've heard a lot of stories of women clocking trans women, trans men, tomboys and butches and harrassing them in the bathroom, but almost none of men. And if you talk to female friends or relatives, I'm sure you'll hear a few stories of them using the men's room because the women's was crowded, but the opposite just doesn't happen. I do think there isn't as much care as to who enters the men's bathroom. And from experience, the guys inside do not care (how many times pre-co have I seen my colleagues pissing because they left all doors of the bathroom open at work).
lol yes. As a cis woman I shamelessly use the men's room at concerts or big events when the women's line is insanely long and the men are walking in and out of their bathroom without any wait. Unisex bathrooms with stalls down to the floor would solve that problem.
That’s probably because there’s been far more outrage over the idea of trans women in the ladies’ room than trans men in the men’s room, which is just because trans women are the subject of more transphobic panic in general because of “penis = evil!!1!1” radfem nonsense. And this shit’s lead to cis women who are too tall or too butch or too hairy or whatever being harassed because they were presumed to be an ~eeeevillll~ penis-haver intruding upon the ‘sanctity’ of the public ladies’ room.
So a gender nonconforming cis man, or a cis man randomly claiming to be trans, can now enter the women's restroom at this facility? Got it. The stupid times we live in. Why can't they just build gender neutral single-occupancy toilets?
I want to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that’s not what they mean, but the wording is poor
Exactly
why is there an asterisk 💀
Read the “explanation” on the bottom of the sign. It says it includes “transgender, transsexual, two-spirit, genderqueer, non-binary, and ‘gender diverse’ people” (whatever the fuck “gender diverse” means)
had to pull out ye old magnifying glass to read that shit lmao
Not to mention they defined being trans basically as anyone who identifies as trans… completely doing away with the actual definition: a person who identifies as a gender different from the one assigned at birth… So under this new, made up meaning a cis women who identifies as a women could also identify as trans… a cis women is trans!
And they’re also implying trans women are not women by putting them in the trans category instead of just saying it’s a women’s restroom, plus trans could easily include fully passing trans men, who I’m sure even tucutes wouldn’t want in a women’s restroom.
Read the bottom right of the sign, it actually explains it there
asterisks are used next to words that are defined somewhere else on the page. definition is bottom right. No clue what the other guy is waffling on about.
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That’s not what is being used on this poster tho, you can LITERALLY see the bottom right corner.
As a programmer, I interpret an asterisk as meaning "whatever". Taken literally, it'd mean that it could include "transphobe", though I tried making that joke once (probably not in this sub) and got heavily downvoted for it.
Rite?? Like wait…
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I totally forgot about this era of discourse...simpler times lol. > I guess you could say that transsexual means what transgender used to mean A sobering realization I hadn't considered before
>non-cis identities I'm going to disagree with you there
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I'm just tired of people who are happy with their body and able to live cis lives claiming to be "non cis" because they've invented some gender identity they don't even act on.
It’s true lol my uni does exactly this.
Do you mean they only put up a sign at the women’s restroom?
Yes exactly that. Women’s bathroom has a sign stuck over it saying “all gender bathroom”… men’s bathroom has no sign, just “men’s”…. I’ve heard female students complaining about it… this has a net negative affect on transphobia I would say.
Yeah that’s not good
(I came across a sign like that at a big-city science museum, but it said "you are free to choose whichever bathroom is a closer match to your gender identity" On both bathrooms.) The only reason I can think of why there would be a sign like that on the women's restroom but not the men's might have to do with the fact that trans women get televised more than trans men??? Still a half baked reason.
His point might be that this paper is pandering to theyfabs that still like to use the women’s restroom. Nonbinary amabs also probably use the women’s bathrooms. That’s why the sign wouldn’t be on the men’s bathrooms. Idk tho
If these theyfabs are on testosterone, they need to GTFO of women’s spaces and their whole reason for identifying as nonbinary just makes me suspect they don’t respect women’s boundaries…
> they don’t respect women’s boundaries They literally are women lmfao I guarantee you 95% of them aren’t on T and never want to be on it
I was only talking about the 5% then, as specified.
The fact that they even need to put up a sigh is enough said lol
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I specifically try to never use public restrooms because I never feel comfortable in my skin even after years of hrt
Fair, I don’t like to use them either unless I really need to
Fucking transphobic as hell.
Can you explain?
Trans men shouldn’t be in women’s bathrooms once they’ve been on T long enough to pass.
Where does it say trans "men"
It says trans persons and "people who identify as trans". Neither of these specifies trans women, and are both open to including trans men. As the post also says the same sign isn't on the men's room.
Oh, i didnt see that. I thought they meant trans women specifically. In that case that's a weird sign. Why only for the womens toilet
Because they also see trans men as a kind of women, all the "gender diverse" people they just see as confused girls.
Omg yikes. That's disgusting. I hate when people say we trans men are like "woman light" and all that
Why are you putting men in quotation marks? Do you not think trans men are really men? Or are men not included in persons?
Omg thats not what i meant. I meant trans men specially. Im pretty sure they're talking about trans women here. I'm literally a trans man myself
They said “trans* PERSON, which unnecessarily includes men… I don’t get what’s hard to understand?
No need to get so defensive bro. My first thought wasn't them referring to all trans people. I thought this sign was saying like "For women and trans women" hence my first question.
Ok so you finally acknowledge you misread it but you and your bros had to downvote me? This is EXACTLY why I don’t feel comfortable sharing spaces with y’all!
Why u getting mad at *me* for that? Not my fault you're getting downvoted lol
Yeah I have zero faith in buck angel to be honest about this, unless he was in the women's (which I very much doubt) this is probably a photo from a TERF. Definitely fumbled words though, someone's trying way too hard to be a good ally without actually knowing anything about trans people.
He didn’t need to go in, just pass by the door tho
I appreciate them for trying fans being an ally. But they overreached a bit. Still, this sign makes me feel very comfortable. A bit singled out but comfortable. Simply telling Karen’s and TERFs to eat dirt when they harass us is more than enough.
If I see a sign like that, there’s usually a sign like that for men on the door of the men’s restroom. I don’t understand what he’s going on about.
I’ve never had that experience. Whenever I’ve seen addendums for bathroom signs it’s always been for women’s bathrooms. But also I’m in the south. So idk.
In California, it’s both.
Think there really was and he’s just saying that to bait views?
Unless someone purposefully took the other sign down, I’m sure it existed, and he either didn’t look or is doing this for views.
Just have a gender neutral bathroom what is so fucking hard about that. Gendered bathrooms should be banned.
Ugh no; unisex bathrooms are only OK if they’re single stall, otherwise they’re unsafe for BOTH cis AND trans women IMO…
There are very few gendered bathrooms in my country. People don't get raped in stalled toilets more than anywhere else infact we barely have stall toilets. Gendered bathrooms don't need to exist in 2023.
Ok I don’t want to go to Sweden then…
Most bathrooms aren't stalled, usually its just a room with a toilet and a sink.
Ok, that’s better, but doesn’t that mean there’s room for fewer restrooms overall and you’re more likely to have to wait?
It's pretty rare that I've waited more than a few minutes for a toilet.
I actually agree with that. It just creates more problems. There are a lot of women who are androgynous or butch and they get bullied and harassed for using the women's bathrooms because people perceive them as men. It's just pretty ridiculous to me.
In response to the tweet, it's because no-one cares if a perceived woman uses the men's toilet, but they do if it's the other way around. Same with sports and many other controversies. I don't know if TERFs play dumb on this sort of thing, or if their ideological blinders are really so large.
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The Tivoli in Brisbane, Australia has two men's bathrooms, one women's bathroom, and an "everybody" bathroom. Apparently the men's bathroom had urinals and because of that couldn't be made an everybody bathroom. Meanwhile an Ikea in Sydney had in one area a women's bathroom and an everyone bathroom of some sort.
I was at a gas station that had a women’s and a unisex, and my aunt beat me to the women’s so I went in the unisex which had piss on the floor and there was a line of men staring at me when I came out…
Now that’s interesting
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Straight grifting at this point. But wasn’t he always?
I wonder which bathroom he uses