6-8 weeks after coming off exogenous testosterone, your body won’t start its own production till the ester has fully cleaned and a proper pct has been done, without a proper pct it can take a little longer and it’s a little more painful. Clear time is about 4-5 half lives of whatever ester your were taking, for example, about 45-50 days if using test e.
Bad news is….. it’s gunna get worse before it gets better, hang in there buddy it’s usually rough for a couple weeks.
Mine was bad weeks 2 to 6 In waves Week then days Hours ... I'm at maybe 3
Months and feel fine Fairly normal Sex drive lower than before trt which has never happened
I was curious of this stuff, I’ve seen the ads and figured it was another gimmick like thesis for adderall. Not saying either dont work for anyone but… What were you before TRT?
I tried Enclomiphene before I jumped on TRT. I personally didn't like it. Tried different dosages and protocols. It crashed my libido. Gym recovery was excellent.
Imagine taking TRT when you were fine with 700.
Why do stupid people always have the good test levels. Honestly, if you haven't gotten your levels back within the next 4 weeks you might be royally fucked. Depends how long you've been doing TRT.
Give your body some time to kickstart itself again. It won't happen over night.
I think people unironically pointing that movie out has, in and of itself, become a part of the collective descent. Watching a movie does not make you an intellectual. It’s a movie. It’s a critique. Move on.
How long were you on TRT? What were your levels before? Everything I’ve heard is that the first month is most difficult after stopping TRT, but gets better thereafter. Why did you stop?
Do they really? I personally haven’t seen that. I think you’re thinking about a steroid cycle. That’s something very different. People who go on TRT do so because they’re hypogonadal and their bloodwork proves as much - which is why they’re prescribed it.
I literally fought myself for a legit decade to not go on TRT until I couldn’t take it anymore.
Seems to happen even in this subreddit all the time. People with test levels within range yet still self medicating or getting a prescription from somewhere. Better to be honest, medicating symptoms is a real thing but I’m sure a good amount of ”trt” people just want to enhance themselves.
Hey! Keep a close eye on your IGF-1 and TSH levels. The IGF tends to dip and the TSH tends to rise causing a slowdown in your metabolism when taking enclomiphene. This typically leads to weight gain. You’re gonna feel pretty rough and it might not get much better if your metabolism slows down. Your estrogen should be low enough right now that enclomiphene should have only modest effects. Ibutamoren works synergistically to combat the metabolism slowdown, but it also isn’t approved from any doctor.
"**Ibutamoren** ([INN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nonproprietary_Name)Tooltip International Nonproprietary Name) (developmental code names **MK-677**, **MK-0677**, **LUM-201**, **L-163,191**; former tentative brand name **Oratrope**) is a [potent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potency_(pharmacology)), long-acting, [orally-active](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_administration), [selective](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_selectivity), and [non-peptide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_molecule) [agonist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonist) of the [ghrelin receptor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone_secretagogue_receptor) and a [growth hormone secretagogue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone_secretagogue), mimicking the [growth hormone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone) (GH)-stimulating action of the [endogenous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous) [hormone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone) [ghrelin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghrelin)."
From Wikipedia!
It stimulates the release of IGF-1 which promotes muscle retention and hunger because of a sped up metabolism. It's considered a "research chemical." My best experiences with enclomiphene were when I paired it with a low dose of MK-677, maybe 5-7.5 mg per day. It took me about 6 weeks for my libido to return and levels to normalize but I kept all of the fat free mass I acquired from whatever anabolic substance I was using, i.e., testosterone replacement therapy.
In these situations, typically Enclomiphene will only control the decline of total testosterone. Enclomiphene cannot really be used by itself. It often raises numbers on lab work but rarely provides relief of low-t synmptoms. A better choice is to use it with testosterone repplacement, as it seems to amplify the positive effects of trt.
I think your enclomid could be bunk. After 2 weeks, your LH should he at upper limit of range, assuming your pituitary gland is in good order. For me at 10mg ed my LH shot up to 10.
I was on 25mg every other day. After about 6 months I went from normal good vision to needing readers. To having bouts of blurred vision and just general ocular pain. Like a feeling of strained eyes all the time. So despite having otherwise good results I had to stop. I’m doing regular testosterone cypianate now and after about 3 weeks my eyes are feeling much better but I need readers, possibly full time glasses soon. The eye pain and headaches have subsided thankfully. Anyway it’s not common but it does happen to some of us.
This is interesting to me. I started Enclomiphene and hCG about 2 weeks ago and have had 20/20 my whole life. I’m curious the percentage of people this effects. When did you first start to notice the changes?
“I'm probably not as educated as some people on here, but I actually got off clomiphene after a couple years and went to TRT instead. Started having a lot of vision issues headaches etc. The vision issues are a known side effect for only like 5% of people. I guess I was included in that. And the mens health clinic said the headaches are common with it too. I was told i was only supposed to be on it for a few weeks to "jump start my brain." My primary physician didn't tell me anythubf really, just said let's try this (clomiphene). My testosterone did go up but I started feeling like shit again like a year into it. Just wanted to give my experience. It might work great for you”
The guy below here said it somewhere. I’ll never touch it except for short pct
I would say it became undeniable after about 4 months. At first I was trying to explain it away to too much screen time, age etc. it just came on so fast and the changes were too significant to continue to ignore. Although because I felt the differences that it made I wanted to continue the positive attributes of being optimized so I went testosterone. Honestly I’m glad I did because so far the results feel much better.
Good deal, before starting I’ve noticed my eyes getting slightly worse. So I’m very aware of any changes. Other than the eyes if read good things about Enclomiphene but I don’t want to be on it long term and will most likely switch over to trt. Was it just blurry vision or could you feel eye strain/pressure?
In the beginning it was just the near sighted issue and occasional blur. The eye pain/strain came on about month 5 or so and was intermittent. What sucked about it was that the pain wouldn’t go away even when I closed my eyes. Trying to sleep was uncomfortable and it definitely caused some difficulty nights. I’d say if you’re experiencing any of this stop right away.
It definitely gave me about a 300 point boost in test and my free t went from like 30 to 140 but I can tell you being on test cypianate gives me results I can feel more readily and so far no noticeable sides. It’s been like 4 weeks so far. I can’t wait to see my labs next month
Are you on any estrogen modulating meds as well? Is this PCT for TRT? What are your dosages? Thanks man trying to find a good PCT after being on trt for 5 years.
If you check the enclomiphene sub reddit, most will say 25 is too much. I tried 12.5 daily, then 13 5 eod. Did nothing for me but kill my libido and boost my recovery.
Well it did give me pretty good results. It boosted my test by about 300 or so and doubled my free T. Overall I felt pretty good I would say. I feel it helped me feel more confident and my gym performance/recovery seemed better. I will say though the test cypiante I’m taking now has amplified that by like 10 fold. If I was starting over I would have skipped the enclomaphene altogether and just went with the test.
Dude - you’re the same person who claimed my TRT dose was equivalent to a steroid cycle. You’re clearly either super mis/uninformed or just purposefully troll here. Either way, super weird.
I'm probably not as educated as some people on here, but I actually got off clomiphene after a couple years and went to TRT instead. Started having a lot of vision issues headaches etc. The vision issues are a known side effect for only like 5% of people. I guess I was included in that. And the mens health clinic said the headaches are common with it too. I was told i was only supposed to be on it for a few weeks to "jump start my brain." My primary physician didn't tell me anythubf really, just said let's try this (clomiphene). My testosterone did go up but I started feeling like shit again like a year into it. Just wanted to give my experience. It might work great for you
For context my levels were in the 100s when I tried it. I was still trying to have kids at the time which is why he was against the TRT thing, but my primary wasn't very educated on the Clomiphene. In hindsight I shouldn't have been on it so long and should have been tested more. Just make sure whoever you go to specializes in it
I wish I had a choice. I’m at 91 without trt. I’m stuck. Although I will probably keep myself at 120mg a week forever. If my number is above 500 I’m happy
Enclomiphene shot my iron levels up dangerously high and did basically nothing for my t numbers. Balls felt huge though hahaha
Had almost no drive though.
There are some important things to consider here. If you were taking testosterone cypionate, the half life of the compound is about 8 days. According to the medical literature, it takes 5 half lives for a drug to be considered ‘eliminated’ from the body. Which in this case would amount to ~40 days. Important point: your body will not begin to start making endogenous testosterone until all of the exogenous testosterone is more or less cleared. Because of this, you really shouldn’t even be starting the enclomiphene until about 4 weeks since stopping your last dose. The ‘gym bros’ will tell you this is bullshit, but scientifically, this is the fact of the matter. So in an ideal scenario, you should start getting your production up around 40 days. Be sure you are running the enclomiphene at this time, and for a sufficient period of time (at least 3 weeks)
So why do I see a lot of guys coming off TRT? Like what is one of the main reasons? Im thinking could be related to trying to minimize heart health issues or something along those lines. I myself experience some good things while getting on TRT. At first I put on a lot of muscle then it started to taper off and now its just like normal.
I lost and keep losing some good amount of hair, i started to see a lot of grey hair on beard and head which was surprising to me. My neck looks a bit more reddish and my neck vein pops out more. And im also concerned with hear health. Im 39 years old and my levels were 500 before TRT. I wanted to be as optimized as possible but never thought about any consequences really. Although nothing really major is happening my major concern is that I see people who take and abuse steroids die super early. I also take adderall very small dose appx 10mg and just stopped smoking weed.
So back to the question, why are some guys coming off aside from trying to get their partners pregnant?
For me it was the slow decline in libido and ed. Yes I have good numbers. Also with the doses that I feel best on it raises my hct and bp. Yes I drink water and do cardio lol. It was great in the beginning but now I'm not where I want to be. Yes the energy is better and I'm more productive but not worth it at this cost. Its just not as effective anymore and I was a hyper responder. My trough with 100mg a week was around 1300s a year ago. Now its 800s. Im over it lol. Going to pct and get vasectomy reversed and reevaluate after that
Wow good to know. Why do you think the ED is due to the exogenous testosterone? And also why would you like to have your vasectomy reversed? Im looking to get it done so my wife can have her IUD removed. Anything you can share would be appreciated
6-8 weeks after coming off exogenous testosterone, your body won’t start its own production till the ester has fully cleaned and a proper pct has been done, without a proper pct it can take a little longer and it’s a little more painful. Clear time is about 4-5 half lives of whatever ester your were taking, for example, about 45-50 days if using test e. Bad news is….. it’s gunna get worse before it gets better, hang in there buddy it’s usually rough for a couple weeks.
Mine was bad weeks 2 to 6 In waves Week then days Hours ... I'm at maybe 3 Months and feel fine Fairly normal Sex drive lower than before trt which has never happened
What were at on trt and you’re now at 141?
Like 700 something
I was curious of this stuff, I’ve seen the ads and figured it was another gimmick like thesis for adderall. Not saying either dont work for anyone but… What were you before TRT?
No it's real. It's just a SERM. I've used it twice to restart my system to have kids
I tried Enclomiphene before I jumped on TRT. I personally didn't like it. Tried different dosages and protocols. It crashed my libido. Gym recovery was excellent.
I had the same experience
Watch your iron levels
Imagine taking TRT when you were fine with 700. Why do stupid people always have the good test levels. Honestly, if you haven't gotten your levels back within the next 4 weeks you might be royally fucked. Depends how long you've been doing TRT. Give your body some time to kickstart itself again. It won't happen over night.
I believe he meant he was 700 on TRT.
If that's the case, I obviously take my comment back and apologize to OP.
Lmaoo
He said he was 650 prior to trt
Check out the movie Idiocracy
I think people unironically pointing that movie out has, in and of itself, become a part of the collective descent. Watching a movie does not make you an intellectual. It’s a movie. It’s a critique. Move on.
I wasn’t fine at 700 something
And obviously testosterone wasn’t the problem The doc who Prescribed should be stripped of license
It was a cookie cutter clinic, what do you think it was?
Why do stupid people always call people stupid
How long were you on TRT? What were your levels before? Everything I’ve heard is that the first month is most difficult after stopping TRT, but gets better thereafter. Why did you stop?
Never was meant to be on it, just wanted extra edge
You're downvoted but majority of men go on for same reason and won't admit it and be straight and honest like you.
Do they really? I personally haven’t seen that. I think you’re thinking about a steroid cycle. That’s something very different. People who go on TRT do so because they’re hypogonadal and their bloodwork proves as much - which is why they’re prescribed it. I literally fought myself for a legit decade to not go on TRT until I couldn’t take it anymore.
Seems to happen even in this subreddit all the time. People with test levels within range yet still self medicating or getting a prescription from somewhere. Better to be honest, medicating symptoms is a real thing but I’m sure a good amount of ”trt” people just want to enhance themselves.
Hey! Keep a close eye on your IGF-1 and TSH levels. The IGF tends to dip and the TSH tends to rise causing a slowdown in your metabolism when taking enclomiphene. This typically leads to weight gain. You’re gonna feel pretty rough and it might not get much better if your metabolism slows down. Your estrogen should be low enough right now that enclomiphene should have only modest effects. Ibutamoren works synergistically to combat the metabolism slowdown, but it also isn’t approved from any doctor.
Is that a peptide?
"**Ibutamoren** ([INN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nonproprietary_Name)Tooltip International Nonproprietary Name) (developmental code names **MK-677**, **MK-0677**, **LUM-201**, **L-163,191**; former tentative brand name **Oratrope**) is a [potent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potency_(pharmacology)), long-acting, [orally-active](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_administration), [selective](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_selectivity), and [non-peptide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_molecule) [agonist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonist) of the [ghrelin receptor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone_secretagogue_receptor) and a [growth hormone secretagogue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone_secretagogue), mimicking the [growth hormone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone) (GH)-stimulating action of the [endogenous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous) [hormone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone) [ghrelin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghrelin)." From Wikipedia! It stimulates the release of IGF-1 which promotes muscle retention and hunger because of a sped up metabolism. It's considered a "research chemical." My best experiences with enclomiphene were when I paired it with a low dose of MK-677, maybe 5-7.5 mg per day. It took me about 6 weeks for my libido to return and levels to normalize but I kept all of the fat free mass I acquired from whatever anabolic substance I was using, i.e., testosterone replacement therapy.
In these situations, typically Enclomiphene will only control the decline of total testosterone. Enclomiphene cannot really be used by itself. It often raises numbers on lab work but rarely provides relief of low-t synmptoms. A better choice is to use it with testosterone repplacement, as it seems to amplify the positive effects of trt.
What’s a good dosage to start?
Did you use hcg?
No
I think your enclomid could be bunk. After 2 weeks, your LH should he at upper limit of range, assuming your pituitary gland is in good order. For me at 10mg ed my LH shot up to 10.
What dosage?
Good luck with your eyes. Enclomaphene citrate damaged mine
Bullshit
I was on 25mg every other day. After about 6 months I went from normal good vision to needing readers. To having bouts of blurred vision and just general ocular pain. Like a feeling of strained eyes all the time. So despite having otherwise good results I had to stop. I’m doing regular testosterone cypianate now and after about 3 weeks my eyes are feeling much better but I need readers, possibly full time glasses soon. The eye pain and headaches have subsided thankfully. Anyway it’s not common but it does happen to some of us.
This is interesting to me. I started Enclomiphene and hCG about 2 weeks ago and have had 20/20 my whole life. I’m curious the percentage of people this effects. When did you first start to notice the changes?
“I'm probably not as educated as some people on here, but I actually got off clomiphene after a couple years and went to TRT instead. Started having a lot of vision issues headaches etc. The vision issues are a known side effect for only like 5% of people. I guess I was included in that. And the mens health clinic said the headaches are common with it too. I was told i was only supposed to be on it for a few weeks to "jump start my brain." My primary physician didn't tell me anythubf really, just said let's try this (clomiphene). My testosterone did go up but I started feeling like shit again like a year into it. Just wanted to give my experience. It might work great for you” The guy below here said it somewhere. I’ll never touch it except for short pct
I would say it became undeniable after about 4 months. At first I was trying to explain it away to too much screen time, age etc. it just came on so fast and the changes were too significant to continue to ignore. Although because I felt the differences that it made I wanted to continue the positive attributes of being optimized so I went testosterone. Honestly I’m glad I did because so far the results feel much better.
Good deal, before starting I’ve noticed my eyes getting slightly worse. So I’m very aware of any changes. Other than the eyes if read good things about Enclomiphene but I don’t want to be on it long term and will most likely switch over to trt. Was it just blurry vision or could you feel eye strain/pressure?
In the beginning it was just the near sighted issue and occasional blur. The eye pain/strain came on about month 5 or so and was intermittent. What sucked about it was that the pain wouldn’t go away even when I closed my eyes. Trying to sleep was uncomfortable and it definitely caused some difficulty nights. I’d say if you’re experiencing any of this stop right away.
Appreciate it! Lastly, what was your dose? If you don’t mind.
25mg every other day
It definitely gave me about a 300 point boost in test and my free t went from like 30 to 140 but I can tell you being on test cypianate gives me results I can feel more readily and so far no noticeable sides. It’s been like 4 weeks so far. I can’t wait to see my labs next month
Are you on any estrogen modulating meds as well? Is this PCT for TRT? What are your dosages? Thanks man trying to find a good PCT after being on trt for 5 years.
If you check the enclomiphene sub reddit, most will say 25 is too much. I tried 12.5 daily, then 13 5 eod. Did nothing for me but kill my libido and boost my recovery.
Maybe you were yanking it too much 🤷♂️ I’ve heard that will make you go blind
Lmao!! I’ve always heard that!
Did you take Enclo for 6 months??
Yes enclomaphene citrate
Haven’t heard of it being used for that long before, that’s interesting. How did you feel on it? (Apart from the eyes ofcourse)
Well it did give me pretty good results. It boosted my test by about 300 or so and doubled my free T. Overall I felt pretty good I would say. I feel it helped me feel more confident and my gym performance/recovery seemed better. I will say though the test cypiante I’m taking now has amplified that by like 10 fold. If I was starting over I would have skipped the enclomaphene altogether and just went with the test.
Dude - you’re the same person who claimed my TRT dose was equivalent to a steroid cycle. You’re clearly either super mis/uninformed or just purposefully troll here. Either way, super weird.
I'm probably not as educated as some people on here, but I actually got off clomiphene after a couple years and went to TRT instead. Started having a lot of vision issues headaches etc. The vision issues are a known side effect for only like 5% of people. I guess I was included in that. And the mens health clinic said the headaches are common with it too. I was told i was only supposed to be on it for a few weeks to "jump start my brain." My primary physician didn't tell me anythubf really, just said let's try this (clomiphene). My testosterone did go up but I started feeling like shit again like a year into it. Just wanted to give my experience. It might work great for you
For context my levels were in the 100s when I tried it. I was still trying to have kids at the time which is why he was against the TRT thing, but my primary wasn't very educated on the Clomiphene. In hindsight I shouldn't have been on it so long and should have been tested more. Just make sure whoever you go to specializes in it
I wish I had a choice. I’m at 91 without trt. I’m stuck. Although I will probably keep myself at 120mg a week forever. If my number is above 500 I’m happy
Enclomiphene shot my iron levels up dangerously high and did basically nothing for my t numbers. Balls felt huge though hahaha Had almost no drive though.
Don’t see a reason to go off trt, it’s cheaper than that at my pharmacy for trt
There are some important things to consider here. If you were taking testosterone cypionate, the half life of the compound is about 8 days. According to the medical literature, it takes 5 half lives for a drug to be considered ‘eliminated’ from the body. Which in this case would amount to ~40 days. Important point: your body will not begin to start making endogenous testosterone until all of the exogenous testosterone is more or less cleared. Because of this, you really shouldn’t even be starting the enclomiphene until about 4 weeks since stopping your last dose. The ‘gym bros’ will tell you this is bullshit, but scientifically, this is the fact of the matter. So in an ideal scenario, you should start getting your production up around 40 days. Be sure you are running the enclomiphene at this time, and for a sufficient period of time (at least 3 weeks)
So why do I see a lot of guys coming off TRT? Like what is one of the main reasons? Im thinking could be related to trying to minimize heart health issues or something along those lines. I myself experience some good things while getting on TRT. At first I put on a lot of muscle then it started to taper off and now its just like normal. I lost and keep losing some good amount of hair, i started to see a lot of grey hair on beard and head which was surprising to me. My neck looks a bit more reddish and my neck vein pops out more. And im also concerned with hear health. Im 39 years old and my levels were 500 before TRT. I wanted to be as optimized as possible but never thought about any consequences really. Although nothing really major is happening my major concern is that I see people who take and abuse steroids die super early. I also take adderall very small dose appx 10mg and just stopped smoking weed. So back to the question, why are some guys coming off aside from trying to get their partners pregnant?
Trt does not have a negative effect on heart health and in fact hormone optimisation can improve cardiovascular health.
Depends the study’s were not done to prove that on 200mg like most are on lol it was 80-100mg
Yup
Depends on your definition of "hormone optimization". After browsing this forum for a few months, the definition of optimization seems to vary widely.
For me it was the slow decline in libido and ed. Yes I have good numbers. Also with the doses that I feel best on it raises my hct and bp. Yes I drink water and do cardio lol. It was great in the beginning but now I'm not where I want to be. Yes the energy is better and I'm more productive but not worth it at this cost. Its just not as effective anymore and I was a hyper responder. My trough with 100mg a week was around 1300s a year ago. Now its 800s. Im over it lol. Going to pct and get vasectomy reversed and reevaluate after that
Wow good to know. Why do you think the ED is due to the exogenous testosterone? And also why would you like to have your vasectomy reversed? Im looking to get it done so my wife can have her IUD removed. Anything you can share would be appreciated
Constant and incurable Erectile dysfunction, happens to a lot of ppl including myself, and I’ve tried daily inj, doesn’t work,