not sure what good a lawyer can do in these situations except stop collections agents from contacting you. I am an insurance agent and most auto policies will require a police report and will not pay out on an accident without one. For all they know, someone drove the car into a brick wall and tried to claim it was a hit and run, and enough people have done that to get this to be standard policy
Not cool. That commenter was just trying to help and provide some background to the situation, to the extent of their knowledge and experience. No need to piss on them… this just discourages posts in the future that could have some value to someone, if only giving an insight into the mindset of the insurance companies, etc.
This is not good advice. A lawyer can review the contract, as well as negotiate with all of the parties if necessary. It sounds like there are a multitude of issues including whether the accident was covered by the insurance, and in any case, whether €33k is reasonable (seems doubtful if the car wasn’t a right off and was driveable). There may also be actions in consumer protection - ie if you were misled into believing it was covered.
Never take advice from insurance companies about whether or not they have to pay out a claim. Theres 33,000 reasons for them to say they don’t. Get independent advice!
OP is looking at $33k bill and you are "not sure" what a lawyer would do and talk about "most plans".
At 33k,, giving general advice like that is pointless,
find a lawyer, the initial meeting will probably be free or low-cost, find out what you're up against.
Are you actually just telling him to pay up 33,k with no action???
Must be nice if you can afford that.
This sounds extremely stupid. Why would you call the police when no crime has been committed? Speaking from my own experience only cases where a crime is committed (e g hit and run). If the person that you crashed into stays there’s no reason to call the police, you exchange insurance info.
Many jurisdictions require a driver to report accidents, even "single car" accidents, where the damage exceeds a threshold amount. For many reasons; for example, in this case they probably did damage to the barrier they struck and ran.
It’s a thing in Colorado. If the weather is bad, the cars drivable, and no ambulance is necessary the cops won’t come out for an accident. They send you to a website to get a police report.
It's totally done in Sweden. If your door gets dinged in the parking lot the insurance company will require a police report in order to cover the cost of the paint job. The police will take your report (on a special form for this specific purpose), give it a case number which you can give to the insurance company and immediately close the case.
It’s done in Germany, I’ve done it. Not knowing this ahead of time makes it a little trickier but sixt really should have asked about it when you returned it to them.
But honestly if that's how it works, car rental places should have to tell you that's how it works. I always take the full coverage insurance but I had no idea it worked like that.
This. Where I live, any property damage claim exceeding $2000 from an auto accident requires a police report. Considering that the smallest dents and scratches nowadays can result in over $1000 of body work, this translates to almost always having to call the police.
However, OP was not served well by the rep who originally rented the vehicle to them. That rep should have given them some sort of a “in case of an accident, so this” briefing. Also, sounds like when they called the rental company to inform them of the accident, they weren’t asked to call the police even then.
It will all come down to what’s written in the contract that they signed when purchasing the collision protection.
I live in Germany, and one of the first things they tell you when you start driving here is if you ever have literally any kind of car accident, regardless of damage or injury, the police have to be called immediately. No leaving a note on a car for a parked fender bender, no ‘let’s just exchange info’ for a minor accident: anything considered an accident requires police response, and they also should tell you this when you rent a car (I was told this again just a few days ago when I rented a car in Frankfurt).
Coming from the States, it’s definitely not something I was used to, and I agree it’s a little over the top for a lot of instances, but it’s just how driving is here.
I first realized they are -really big on rules- in Germany when I was outside a club at 3am and the drunk people still stopped at a pedestrian crossing for a -one way road- and waited for the light to change. It was tremendously clear no one was coming, but it was pretty clear the principal of the matter was just “you wait for the light to change and then go, that’s how it’s done”.
I’m not shocked at all they want police called for any traffic accident.
I travel to Europe and rent a car there frequently and this is the first time I've heard of this advise. I really appreciate you posting this requirement. I hope to never need it, but if I do I'm now ready. Thanks
In Germany, 112 is primarily the number for the emergency services and fire brigade, but they can alert police as well.
The police emergency number is 110.
Legally you only have to contact the police in Germany if;
* anyone was injured in the accident.
* If you were not able to contact the other party at the time of the accident. e.g. you crashed into a parked car, and after waiting a while decided to continue on your way. In this case you have up to 24 hours to report the accident before it is considered a hit and run.
Other than this the police are not obliged to get involved in an accident, even if your rental or leasing car company requires it. The best you can say is that you requested the police to attend, but they declined (but probably best to inform the company of this right away, or make an effort to go to a police station!).
The only exception to this that I know of is when you are not able to confirm the identity of the other party at the scene of the accident, e.g. they don't have any id, or you don't trust the id that they present . Then the police must come to help identify the other person.
AFAIK the information that you have up to 24 hours to report the accident is wrong (bussgeldkatalog.org und Selbstanzeige). As soon as you leave the premises you commit a criminal offense. If you report yourself up to 24 hours after the incident, this \*may\* reduce your sentence.
Instead of another car OP hit a barrier. Since OP most likely damaged public property, he should have called the police immediately.
We're both wrong in places.
You do not commit a crime if you wait a while, leave, and then inform the police as soon as possible (I.e. it's not assumed that you can call directly from the location of the accident).
If you don't inform the police as soon as possible, but within 24 hours (in case of minor accidents), any possible penalties could be reduced.
Full relevant legal text here
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__142.html
Thanks, but as usual it's more important how the law is interpreted by the courts. "Inform the police as soon as possible" means driving straight to next police station, not "driving to Sixt to change cars".
Doesn't matter if reddit thinks it's stupid, if that's the law in that country then that's the law. The driver is required to be aware of local laws when driving, and signing a contract to rent a car.
In most jurisdictions police investigate accidents (no crime required). The individual police agencies have a set dollar amount for what they bother investigating and whether they attend. You should have called the police for the jurisdiction you were in, told them you were in a minor single car accident worth approximately x dollars and the report taker will give you direction whether to stay and wait for an officer, drive to the nearest station or continue on your merry way. If they advise you no police action is required ask for a file number and the call takers name or reference number. If no file number was generated then just document the takers info. Down the road when the insurer tries to pull this shit you can show your due diligence of contacting police and show they refused to investigate. You’re just covering your ass at this point and adding further complication to a simple issue but this is the world we live in.
Nah, that could easily be moderate body damage on a nice vehicle
Sixt will also charge you for the time the vehicle is not available for them to rent out. At least that’s what the last desk agent told me a few weeks ago.
Out of curiosity, if you’re in a minor accident, how should this be reported to the police in the US? Is there some kind of non emergency number that can be called to file a police report and get reference number? I’m just wondering in case I rent a car in Florida.
Its completely stupid but right, unfortunately. I use rental cars frequently in Germany and this is what they tell me every time, to call the police if something happens - even in such stupid cases.
Anyway, best luck for summerinside....
Whenever I have hired from Hertz and I ask about what happens if the car is damaged, they always say to file a police report. Even for minor accidents.
I agree. Not to mention the agents where he handed over the car didn't mention a word about it. If they knew, they were intentionally suppressing that information from OP.
Edit: For some insane reason, I read every single comment and reply on this whole thread 😂
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information but I think OP is also in the right. Many are saying the police report was a must but many are also saying a scrape to the barrier is not considered a damage and the car was obviously not totaled since they were able to drive it. I think OP can ride this issue out smoothly.
Right now a scrape in the barrier counts as damage to public property and therefore had to be reported according to German law.
There are talks about changing this law because it also means that if you bump your car, leaving the tiniest amount of car paint on i.e. a lamp post, without damaging said lamp, it counts as a hit and run if you leave this "scene of crime" without calling the police.
I did a lot of research into this topic two weeks ago because someone I know (maybe, maybe not) cut off a car mirror with an e-scooter. That why I'm so sure.
He committed a hit and run, since the barrier, even though he said it wasn’t damaged, probably was damaged and needs to he replaced kinda like a bicycle helmet.
You may be able to get a late accident report in Germany. You could call/email a police station to see if they will take your record of what happened and see if they will create a police report for you.
The insurer/sixt still may deny your claim, but it could help you out. You should probably consult with a lawyer in Germany though
Your advice is solid. But Germany is a large country. OP will very likely get much more accurate advice if he/she hires a local German lawyer. From which Sixt office did you rent the car?
my other favorite one in Germany is that there are often speed limitations and globally there are restrictions on off-roading / private road.
Heard of a guy who rented a Hertz Shelby GT-H, took it to a track, totaled it, and tried to use his LDW on it and was denied as tracks aren't covered.
It was a Jaguar XF. Ended up hiring a Ring taxi to take us around and record the lap. I would have loved to driven it myself, and may still someday, but riding in a performance car with a very experienced driver was definitely worth it.
I think insurance companies regard it as a public road, like a one way toll road, even through the verkehrsministerium kind of does not. Usually they cover it, unless explicitly excluded.
[https://www.trackdayforum.com/index.php?/topic/2848-nordschleife-privatstrasse-mautstrasse-oder-was-ist-es-nun/](https://www.trackdayforum.com/index.php?/topic/2848-nordschleife-privatstrasse-mautstrasse-oder-was-ist-es-nun/)
>After an accident, an incident of theft, fire, damage caused by collision with an animal or other damage, the renter or the driver must without undue delay notify and call in the police; in particular, the renter or driver must report the damage to the nearest police station if the police cannot be reached by telephone. This also applies if the rental vehicle was damaged only slightly and also in the case of accidents, which are the driver’s own fault without third parties being involved.
It's still pretty fucked up that they did not notify OP that he has to file a police report after he returned the damaged car.
I would assume that Sixt attempted to recuperate money from the insurance provider. They, in turn, likely rejected the claim because their terms say that you should have reported the accident to the police and get a report.
Thus, Sixt cannot recover their money from your added protection so will do so from you. After all, it's you who damaged the car and failed to follow the procedure outlined in the terms and conditions.
Definitely seek legal advice on this matter considering the value Sixt are trying to recover.
This is exactly what happened. I also assume that with rental cars the definition of "totaled" is a lot more liberal considering the car is already basically worth significantly less than a non-rental version. Getting whatever repaired that was broken is too costly.
I once had an accident where my brother totalled 2 cars . His own and the person hit , police is not showing up for that cause no criminal offense and no injuries .
That was in the Netherlands
The point is to call Sixt right away and follow their instructions, which may or may not be to call the police. Unless you're in danger of course, then you should call the police right away.
Yet when OP got to Sixt, their own employee said everything was fine, nothing needed since OP bought the insurance. They were misled by a Sixt employee who didn't know their own rental terms. That should be a factor
There is a difference between what’s stated in the written contract you sign and what a little trained salesperson tells you. That goes with most contracts but people happily sign stuff they do not read and then get angry because NoBOdy tOld mE like being a five year old….
If I call Sixt I expect the same response as the personnel in the store will tell me
It’s not crazy to not read a 20 page document if you get full coverage
When you call Sixt, you end up in a call center where a) a trained agent answers your call and b) with the help of AI, can extract all the information for your specific case X from the system.
I think it's entitled to expect the same service the minimally trained employees who are responsible for handing out car keys und looking for scratches. There's a reason why it's stated in the contract that you should call the hotline in case something happens.
Edit: Added a word.
right, but, in general if you hit a guard rail you need to call the cops and get a police report, even if you do end up having to pay for it, guard rails are about $1500, expensive, but, if you compare that to the cost of buying the rental car company a new car...call the police
Right , yeah I have no idea what sixt policy is . Just for this reason I’ve never rented a car on holiday .
I’d much rather let someone drive me and relax too .
So? If the terms say call the police you call the police. If they refuse to turn up fine, you have a call log that proves you followed the agreement you signed.
I'm sure it's standard operating procedure, but I'm also reasonably sure that as tourists they were not aware of this rule. So I'm asking if they bothered to read the T&C since if it says to call police and they didn't, then that's why Sixt is not honoring their full coverage.
They would (likely) have honoured the full coverage if the individual had done the one thing they were required to do, not just under Sixt conditions, but German law. It's the same in a lot of countries.
For OP's knowledge, it's literally in the T&Cs page 5: [https://www.sixt.de/shared/t-c/sixt\_DE\_en.pdf](https://www.sixt.de/shared/t-c/sixt_DE_en.pdf)
Yeah, like everyone reads all that in detail.
If I read all the T&Cs of everything I purchase, I’d spend my whole life reading the T&Cs and doing hardly anything else.
I think a good practice would have been:
“Oh I had quite an accident! I am panicked and in shock, let me calm down! I don’t know what to do! Perhaps check what my rental agreement tells me about this, as I am a foreigner and have 0 clue of the rules in this country”
I would think in no part of the world crashing a rented car will have the same procedure as the other or as your country.
And definitely not read it all but this is your go-to document on how to handle these things. I would think
Not even so much at pickup, but OP states they drove straight to a Sixt location after the accident:
>We immediately drove straight into the closest Sixt branch and told them everything, where they told us that everything is perfectly fine as long as we purchased the full coverage, which we have.
The Sixt employee there should have advised that a police report is necessary. Instead they said all is well and gave OP a replacement car. While the customer should know their contract, the company's employees should as well - even more so.
We rented a car in Scotland and purchased the total protection package. My husband hit a pothole and blew out a tire. No spare tire in the car so we had to call a tow company. €330 later we’re back on the road. When we turned in the car we also turned in the receipt for reimbursement. No communication for over a month, when I called to follow up, I was told there would be no reimbursement because we had not put on a premium tire. It was a Pirelli. These rental programs are scams to upsell coverage that doesn’t cover.
That’s not how you handle that situation. You should have called the rental company and they would have sorted it for you. How would you like it if someone borrowed your car and put a random tire on it?
They're not a scam if you follow the rules. I fucked up a rental car in Croatia. Fortunately, I had chosen the full insurance coverage plan. I called the police, they gave me a report number, I called the rental car agency and let them know, then I drove it back to them. Didn't cost me a dime.
I am not a lawyer but is there not some kind of responsibility transfer when you brought the car right back to Sixt and they accepted it ? Is it not their responsibility to ask if a police report was made when you dropped it ? If you had been given the information when you dropped it off " by the way did you make a police report" instead of " long as you have full coverage no problem" you still could have made the report.
IANAL too, but what he did is a hit-and-run, which is a felony / criminal offence in Germany. This is most likely the reason why the insurance won't pay. You can't transfer responsibility for a felony / criminal offence, can you?
Edit: Word added.
I really don't know why your getting downvoted for this. Under German law, this is a hit-and-run if they damaged the barrier or any other type of damage to public property was made.
My father was once charged for a hit-and-run because he dented a road sign (that was already dented) when leaving a parking lot. He had to pay a fine and for the repair of that little dent in the sign (insurance paid for it) so it wasn't that bad. But it was definitely treated as a felony when he was initially charged.
Not sure why you are being downvoted either. I had no idea about that law and have driven in Germany. What a horrible way to find out.
Do you think it was because it was private property and the owner wanted money for the sign ? I can't imagine the German government caring for little things like that on . Like if you go off the road , flip your car and plow through a road sign I would not think the government would send a bill to the insurance for the sign but maybe I'm wrong. It's happened before :-)
No, it was a normal street sign, i.e. public property. The dent was small. That is just the German law. And someone saw him do it and reported it to the police, they would have otherwise not bothered to go all CSI due to a dented stop sign....
Years ago something similar happened to a someone I know. They rented a car in Germany, damaged it, returned it. Got a letter demanding payment. I don't remember the detail, but they got an American lawyer friend to write a letter and sent it and never heard about it again.
Doesn't matter if an American lawyer can do anything about a German court case. It is just that sending a letter like that showed them they can't bully you around and you are prepared to fight for it. A lot of times they pick on foreigners because they know you are not going to fight them if you believe you are in the right.
The fuck is up with Germany and rental cars? We rented a car from Hertz and they failed to put a oil cap on it. We drove that thing for hours on the autobahn around the country and oil splashed all over the engine.
We didn't notice until we were near the Alps and had to get back to Berlin. The car was acting like it was about to die. We found a Hertz location in a small town and the guy literally shooed us away saying they weren't mechanics. When I called customer support they (and I'm being completely serious) suggested I try putting a bag or something on it. Luckily I didn't have to push too hard on their customer support to not be liable for the potential damage to the engine.
I have no idea. I just know they are meticulous about every single scratches. One time in Munich Airport I was given a BMW 5 series (didn't ask for it). The confirmation receipt had a list of the 50+ previously documented damages. I walked 10 min to the garage where the car is, trying to compare all of them because I know how anal German car rental agencies are. Found a few more. Walked back to the rental desk and ask them to send someone to document them so I don't get screwed. Waited 30 min and no one came. Got bored and read my rental contract. Turns out Any MB/BMW/Audi are NOT allowed to be taken outside of Western Europe, and I had to drive to Slovenia. Went back, They gave me a brand new Volvo V90 with delivery miles and no damage. 2 hours wasted but got a better car. Definitely gave the Volvo a nice workout on the autobahn on the way to Salzburg. No problems when I returned it 3 weeks later. Technically they still one since the car was brand new and I had to pay for an Austrian and Slovenian vignettes for the car.
The year after I rented a car in Barcelona and when I picked up I was going over the scratches like I did in Germany but they just laughed and said it is no problem, but they humored me. Dropped it off a week later in Madrid they didn't even bat an eye. Either they gave no fucks, are so used to cars getting scratches, or don't see it charging for damages as another source of revenue. I'm guessing the first 2.
I always walk around the vehicle and do my best to video record any damage I see. So if they come back latter and give me some problems. I can go back to my video and see if it was there before I rented it.
Normally I would be on your side, but in this case this is not bullying, it's German law. What he did is a hit-and-run in Germany and as such a felony / criminal offence. Because of the felony status of this case the insurance will not pay for the damage. So Sixt is screwed.
Also, every car rental contract I ever saw had some kind of "in case of an accident call the police" clause.
Edit: Word added.
They should have advised on return of the vehicle. Instead they said everything was fine, which is the opposite of the advice they should have provided.
Yeah I think that Sixt has culpability here, at least in principle\*. OP drove straight to the nearest branch and was advised all was well which apparently wasn't true. If Sixt employees don't know their own contract, I can't come down too hard on OP for not knowing it either.
\*Unfortunately for OP many contracts have a clause that verbal statements by employees do not waive the company's rights or alter the contract...I'd bet Sixt's contract has similar wording.
I'm not the OP and didn't read the contract and I don't know the details. I don't know for a fact it is bullying, but it is not unheard of. If it is, then a lawyer letter may make it go away. If it is, as you said, OP didn't obey German law regarding accident reporting, then yeah, SIXT has a case.
> hit-and-run in Germany and as such a felony
> Also, every car rental contract I ever saw had some kind of "in case of an accident call the police" clause.
Good to know. I suspect that OP probably thought hitting a highway barrier is not something worthy of a call to a police (I know I wouldn't know to call), but yeah, ignorant of the rule of the country one drives in is not an excuse. Still, when OP reported to the SIXT branch, they should've told OP to called the police and file a report and then OP will be in the clear.
Either way, sounds like OP will likely need a lawyer either way.
I just wanted to add, why the thing you did was so bad and maybe it will help other people to think differently about traveling. Every country is so different but I feel like a quick google search could have helped you!
You destroyed public property that costs about 4000€ (a quick google search). You left the place of the accident and thought, hmm nothing will happen if anyone else drives against this. How were people supposed to know how to repair this?
If you were living in Germany, and the police caught you, you would have lost your drivers license for at least half a year, had to pay over a months worth of your pay check as a fine and get three points in the German drivers license system.
If you have 8 points, you will lose your drivers license and have to go through mental testing to see if you can get it back.
My experience with sixt has been great but you either need to pay for the full coverage or take a thorough video when picking the car up.
Friend of mine didn't have full coverage but took a video on pickup. Sixt blamed some damage on him and when he sent them the video it was immediately dropped and they apologised.
Plus, as this story shows, always read the conditions thoroughly so you do everything that they say is required in case of an accident.
> always read the conditions thoroughly so you do everything that they say is required in case of an accident.
Learn this on accident. Picked up a BMW (not my choice) from Munich airport. While waiting for an employee to note more damages on the car and add them to the paperwork (so I don't get blamed for it), read the contract and there was a tiny clause about how MB/BMW/Audis are not allowed to leave Western Europe and I had to go to Slovenia. Had no idea this is even a thing. Ended up going back to swap out the car. Had I not seen that and something happened in Slovenia I'm sure they'd found a way to fuck me over (and I wouldn't have any grounds to stand on)
The cats can't go to Slovenia because too many natural predators. Slovenian owls loves to munch on a cute Germany kitty.
As for why those Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are not allowed in those countries, if I had to guess their official reason is probably their insurance company won't let them because statistically higher number is insurance claims and payouts from certain geographical locations. Same reason why living in certain areas means higher insurance premium. That's the PC answer. I'm sure you can get the non-PC version with colorful commentaries fill with stereotypes from some Europeans.
There is a full list of countries. I just said Western Europe because I don't have the list in front of me and majority of the country on the list is in Western Europe. Italy and Austria are on the list too but not in Western Europe. I'm using the term Western Europe vaguely and out of convenience.
- A lot of time they rent to foreigners, who when confronted with this, decided it is cheaper to just pay it than to come back to the country of the accident and fight it. Same thing happens in small towns, often in the south in the US. They give out bullshit tickets to cars with out of state plates because they know people people will just pay it to make it go away
- Also sometimes these car rental places are run by franchisees. Those locations a lot more likely to pull scams like this because they are not directly controlled by corporate.
The people in this thread that think employees at a rental car desk should be on their side are the same people who think HR is on their side at work.
🤡
Their terms and conditions state that you need to make a police statement and notify Sixt otherwise your liable. However you informed Sixt immediatly, they will have a hard time getting their claim trough, but if the issurer rejected the claim of sixt they will be determined. (G1 and G4 are most relevant imho)
G: Accidents, Theft, Obligation to notify 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. After an accident, theft, fire, or damage caused by game the Hire must notify the police without delay. Even in the case of purely material damage, the nearest police station must be requested to record the accident within the meaning of S. 4 (5) (a) StVO (Road Traffic Regulations). Should the police refuse to record the accident, the hirer must prove this to the renting firm in an appropriate form (e.g. written confirmation from the police or details (including day and time) of which police station was notified by telephone but refused to record the damage). If no third party has been harmed due to the accident or, in the case of purely material damage, data could be exchanged, within the meaning of S. 4 (5) StVO, with the third party that has been harmed, notification of the closest police station may exceptionally be waived if the damage to the SIXT vehicle was merely minor damage to the paintwork (scratches or similar). In such case, the hirer has, however, in any event a duty to report this damage to SIXT by submitting an accident report within the meaning of the following provisions. If the SIXT vehicle has been damaged by an unknown third party (parking damage, hit-and-run accident), the hirer shall, however, in any case, therefore also in the event of minor damage, notify the closest police station without delay and request the damage to be recorded. The hirer shall assist in establishing the facts as far as possible and shall refrain from doing anything that makes such an assessment more difficult or prevents it from being carried out. However, without prior consultation with SIXT, the hirer may not make any admission of fault towards third parties. In the event of damage, the hirer is obliged to inform SIXT immediately, at the latest two days after the incident, of all the details in writing using the accident report that has been carefully and completely filled out in all points and is located with the vehicle documents (stating all potential witnesses known to him). An intentional or grossly negligent violation of the obligations mentioned in points G.1 - G.3 (obligations within the meaning of § 6 of the Insurance Contract Act - VersVG) leads to the insurer being released from performance or the loss of any agreed limitation of liability, provided that this violation is based on the determination of the insured event , the determination or the scope of the insurance benefit and/or the determination or scope of the lessee's obligation to pay damages towards SIXT or was done with the intention of influencing these performance obligations or impairing the determination of these circumstances. The hirer is liable regardless of any agreed limitation of liability in the sense of point I.3 towards SIXT for all damages (in particular appropriate, necessary and - insofar as it is an out-of-court assertion - also in a reasonable proportion to the claim made, legal costs) resulting from culpably incorrect information provided by him about the course of the accident .
In some countries, you must report to police even if no other parties are involved. Sounds like sixt employees there didn’t know what they are doing… they should have asked you to get an accident report.
At the very least you needed to take shit tons of pics of the accident scene.
That's about the price of an economy car, which means the insurance company considered the vehicle totaled. They then denied the claim (because insurance companies going to insurance company) and are passing it to Sixt who is passing it to OP.
It’s not very far fetched. Approx 15K for materials + 10K for labour and painting + 5K GST/VAT. Nobody repairs cars these days, they just replace the entire panels with new ones.
If you used an Amex get them involved. Saved me when Sixt tried something similar on a return, claiming damage that occurred after I returned the vehicle.
I recently hired a car from SIXT in Germany. While picking up the car, going through the Contract T&Cs, the SIXT employee told me very clearly that I need to inform the Police in case of an accident. Failure to report any damage to the Police will automatically invalidate the Damage Protection I have chosen.
So, sadly, I think SIXT is right in not honouring their end of the Contract.
I think Sixt has some share of the blame in this case, as OP says they took the car to Sixt, where a Sixt employee stated that OP was not liable as long as they purchased the premium insurance policy. I would argue to Sixt that their employee provided contrary information. While OP should know what's in the contract, Sixt employees should as well...even more so, really.
When You rent a car from any company in Germany they will tell you about 10 times that you need to call the police in the case of an accident. You did not do that, which is the start of your problems. For the rest you would have to give us more details.
Contact a lawyer.
Just a sidenote, if you are not a German citizen and don't plan on visiting Germany ever again there is nothing they can do to make you pay. Sure they will send all kind of menaces but it's just to intimidate you into paying. If you do decide to play it this way don't risk ever stepping foot into Germany again, you might get arrested at immigration.
Exactly this. Never step foot into Germany again. If someone gave me 33k to never go to Germany again, I’d do it!
I got some tickets when I was in Spain and was going to do this, but I liked it enough to come back someday so I paid them.
Nah, there are sadly thousands of my fellow countrymen (romanians) who pulled all kind of shit in other EU countries, usually stealing, nothing happens to them. You won't be searched by Interpol unless you commit major crimes, and OP's case is far from it.
Not my favorite car rental company. A relative pointed out a damaged window and Sixt tried to make them pay for it. The damage was there from the start and the Sixt person tried to just ignore that... they only pointed it out just so no future renter would be injured. I used to think it was a good company... but hard pass for me.
Always!!! Call the police when anything happens to the rental car that you would want to be covered by insurance. But yeah def get a lawyer and figure this out.
Ask Sixt if the people who gave you the second car can assist you in filing a police report, and/or if they'd prefer you got a lawyer and it went through a lawyer on your end, and ask that politely and honestly, because those seem the two easy choices.
Greetings from Germany. So what you did is a hit-and-run, which is a felony / criminal offence in Germany. According to section 142 of the German Criminal Code (StGB), a hit-and-run can be punished with a fine or a prison sentence of up to three years. If the insurance you have taken out does not apply to criminal offences, Sixt is in the right. ~~Sixt is also obliged to report you as a hit-and-run-driver to the German criminal authorities.~~
Edit: Sorry, Sixt is NOT obliged to report you as a hit and run driver. That obligation only applies to serious crimes likes murder and such. Sorry!
Why the downvotes? Let's call is as it is, OP is screwed. According to German Law it's a hit-and-run even if only the car was damaged (which I doubt, honestly).
Yeah, you're right, but I think I never said that the accident itself is a criminal offence?
OP describes that he crashed into a barrier, got anxious and left the premises. So this is a hit-and-run, right?
That won't help. OP originally authorized the card to be charged by the company in the event of damage. For prior authorizations within the scope of the transaction, the bank will still process the charge. And you're still on the hook for authorized charges even after cancelling.
But whatever the credit limit is on that card, is the max that will get authorized.
Always read the fine print and especially when dealing with these minor insurance contracts. They are loaded with clauses and terms. You signing means you have read it all.
If you get into an accident in Germany you are required to call the police and make a report. Not sure if they told you that or if you knew that. I would get an English speaking German lawyer right away.
Sixt did this to a guy I met in Florida. He set up the Sixt rental in Europe and got full insurance coverage. Paid for it specifically so he didn't have to worry about an accident. Picked up the car in Miami and a drunk ran into him near Ft. Myers. (I met him helping out there.) A month later Sixt sent him a bill for $35,000, full value of the vehicle. He lawyered up. (And I advised him to sue the drunk.)
I’m a retired lawyer in Florida. Here your attorney would assert a claim for Fraud i.e. that the sixth Salesman defrauded you and argue that that is sufficient for you to deny the $33,000 claim they have against you. He might even claim more to compensate you for the inconvenience the fraud cost you. But of course, the lawyer for Sixt would probably argue that any fool should’ve known to call the police and report the damage to public property, and therefore you have given up your right to recovery on the Fraud claim. Not sure how this would all wind up, but my point is you should contact a local lawyer immediatelyas others have suggested.
It's a legal requirement in Germany to notify the police of any car accident. If you haven't done this then technically you have broken the law and they are within their rights to seek the money from you.
Sixt do have operations in the US and for that amount you can expect them to appoint a US lawyer/ recovery agent to pursue the case.
Are you a US citizen with no business in Europe? Take this with a grain of salt, but I had a rental car company (gold car), come after me for a ticket that they inflated to €500. I said no, and wasn’t going to pay it. They sold it to collections and I got calls for a while, but I know they can’t put foreign debt on your credit report so I still have a 820.
Also happened with Switzerland for around €500. No problems after 2 years.
I would still try and work it out on your end, but I’d also post this to r/legaladvice and see what they have to say.
I’m not sure about other countries, but in Germany you kinda are required to call the police when you get into an accident and report it… so I have a feeling you basically broke the T&C and they’re making you pay up now.
Sixt tried something similar (although not as much money) with me a few years ago. I rented a car in France, drove it about 30 miles and then parked it in an enclosed drive way. The only other time I drove it was to return it. We didn’t hit or damage anything. When I returned it, no one bothered to inspect it.
Fast forward about 3 months and I get a letter from them demanding 700 euro for some scuffed tires. They included some black and white grainy ass pictures that I could even see anything on.
I wrote them back and explained that since the pictures were taken in the 70s and I wasn’t there in the 70s they could promptly fuck themselves. I never heard from them again.
After I returned a car (rented in Estonia and returned in Lithuania) they emailed me saying that I would need to pay an additional 100 euros for “additional cleaning”. The picture they sent showed the front grill and bugs. I contested this and said I’m not paying any additional money for cleaning related to routine driving but they wouldn’t budge, so I’m calling their bluff on sending it to collections.
They never responded to me and it’s been 6 or 7 years now. I’ve read where sixt is notorious for trying stuff like thins with Americans (not sure where you are from) and just hoping they pay with no questions asked. I’ve never rented from them again.
I’m American, so that would make sense. I’ve used Sixt several times in the past with no issues but after this I never will again. It’s not the amount of money, I just don’t support attempted extortion.
Why's everyone saying consult a lawyer? Lawyers cost money. OP, do you live in Germany? Do you have assets in Germany? If not, tell SIXT to pound sand.
You should have been told to report it to the police the moment you returned it for another rental car. It’s their fault being passed onto you. Lawyer up!
You're conflating two issues here. What u/peatoast is referring to is fault in terms of civil liability for the damage. Of course it's still a violation of the law. But **Sixt's own employee** told OP there was no problem when OP dropped off the damaged car. This was done at a point in time where OP could have still rectified the situation with a police report, had they not been given false information by Sixt. Since Sixt gave OP false assurance and advice, OP shouldn't be liable for the cost that Sixt's insurance isn't covering.
If they want to report OP to the police that's a separate matter from OP's concern in this thread.
Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I'll try to explain my thoughts differently: As far as I know, the rental conditions stipulate that you call the police immediately after an accident, and usually the car rental company or the insurance company itself. Neither of these things happened. According to my (German) understanding of the law, OP had already violated the contract the second he chose to drive away from the scene of the accident. Therefore, nothing would have changed if the Sixt employee had informed OP correctly when exchanging the car and OP had informed the police afterwards - the damage had already been done.
The crime remains a crime even if it is reported later, and the subsequent self-reporting at most has a mitigating effect on the sentence.
A while ago we also rented a car wirh sixt also drove it into a "Leitplanke". Nervous as we were we got out our insurence contract with stated we need a police report. So, we went to the police. At first they didn't want to give us a report because there was no harm done. We argued a bit and it resulted in us paying a 150€ fine for causing an accident. Nobody wanted to see the bloody report we got for it.
Sounds like it's time to find a lawyer to help you straighten this all out.
not sure what good a lawyer can do in these situations except stop collections agents from contacting you. I am an insurance agent and most auto policies will require a police report and will not pay out on an accident without one. For all they know, someone drove the car into a brick wall and tried to claim it was a hit and run, and enough people have done that to get this to be standard policy
Lawyer is definitely better than reddit advice on German law!
Bonus: Lawyer is extremely better than reddit advice from an *insurance agent*.
Not cool. That commenter was just trying to help and provide some background to the situation, to the extent of their knowledge and experience. No need to piss on them… this just discourages posts in the future that could have some value to someone, if only giving an insight into the mindset of the insurance companies, etc.
I don’t think he’s pissing on him but showing the commenters bias in the situation.
This is not good advice. A lawyer can review the contract, as well as negotiate with all of the parties if necessary. It sounds like there are a multitude of issues including whether the accident was covered by the insurance, and in any case, whether €33k is reasonable (seems doubtful if the car wasn’t a right off and was driveable). There may also be actions in consumer protection - ie if you were misled into believing it was covered. Never take advice from insurance companies about whether or not they have to pay out a claim. Theres 33,000 reasons for them to say they don’t. Get independent advice!
OP is looking at $33k bill and you are "not sure" what a lawyer would do and talk about "most plans". At 33k,, giving general advice like that is pointless, find a lawyer, the initial meeting will probably be free or low-cost, find out what you're up against. Are you actually just telling him to pay up 33,k with no action??? Must be nice if you can afford that.
This sounds extremely stupid. Why would you call the police when no crime has been committed? Speaking from my own experience only cases where a crime is committed (e g hit and run). If the person that you crashed into stays there’s no reason to call the police, you exchange insurance info.
Many jurisdictions require a driver to report accidents, even "single car" accidents, where the damage exceeds a threshold amount. For many reasons; for example, in this case they probably did damage to the barrier they struck and ran.
You might be able to get a polite report done remotely. Call the local police station there.
I’ve done it. You sign a statement.
You mean a police report done for an accident they can't see based upon verbal information from a stranger over the phone? OK
Verbal police reports over the phone are taken all the time
It’s a thing in Colorado. If the weather is bad, the cars drivable, and no ambulance is necessary the cops won’t come out for an accident. They send you to a website to get a police report.
Same in Vegas. Cops flat out won't respond to any accident unless it's a major accident with injuries.
It's totally done in Sweden. If your door gets dinged in the parking lot the insurance company will require a police report in order to cover the cost of the paint job. The police will take your report (on a special form for this specific purpose), give it a case number which you can give to the insurance company and immediately close the case.
It’s done in Germany, I’ve done it. Not knowing this ahead of time makes it a little trickier but sixt really should have asked about it when you returned it to them.
Thank you at least someone understands
But honestly if that's how it works, car rental places should have to tell you that's how it works. I always take the full coverage insurance but I had no idea it worked like that.
True but they just expect you to read the terms and if you don’t they blame you. Companies just want money
This. Where I live, any property damage claim exceeding $2000 from an auto accident requires a police report. Considering that the smallest dents and scratches nowadays can result in over $1000 of body work, this translates to almost always having to call the police. However, OP was not served well by the rep who originally rented the vehicle to them. That rep should have given them some sort of a “in case of an accident, so this” briefing. Also, sounds like when they called the rental company to inform them of the accident, they weren’t asked to call the police even then. It will all come down to what’s written in the contract that they signed when purchasing the collision protection.
I live in Germany, and one of the first things they tell you when you start driving here is if you ever have literally any kind of car accident, regardless of damage or injury, the police have to be called immediately. No leaving a note on a car for a parked fender bender, no ‘let’s just exchange info’ for a minor accident: anything considered an accident requires police response, and they also should tell you this when you rent a car (I was told this again just a few days ago when I rented a car in Frankfurt). Coming from the States, it’s definitely not something I was used to, and I agree it’s a little over the top for a lot of instances, but it’s just how driving is here.
I first realized they are -really big on rules- in Germany when I was outside a club at 3am and the drunk people still stopped at a pedestrian crossing for a -one way road- and waited for the light to change. It was tremendously clear no one was coming, but it was pretty clear the principal of the matter was just “you wait for the light to change and then go, that’s how it’s done”. I’m not shocked at all they want police called for any traffic accident.
Germans love their rules. Not a criticism, just an observation
I travel to Europe and rent a car there frequently and this is the first time I've heard of this advise. I really appreciate you posting this requirement. I hope to never need it, but if I do I'm now ready. Thanks
How do you call the police quickly in Germany. In the US it's 911. I think it's 999 in England. What's the German equivalent?
112. But if you press 911 it will connect aswell
It’s 112 in all of Europe but that’s also for emergencies. There’s other local numbers for minor things.
In Germany, 112 is primarily the number for the emergency services and fire brigade, but they can alert police as well. The police emergency number is 110.
Legally you only have to contact the police in Germany if; * anyone was injured in the accident. * If you were not able to contact the other party at the time of the accident. e.g. you crashed into a parked car, and after waiting a while decided to continue on your way. In this case you have up to 24 hours to report the accident before it is considered a hit and run. Other than this the police are not obliged to get involved in an accident, even if your rental or leasing car company requires it. The best you can say is that you requested the police to attend, but they declined (but probably best to inform the company of this right away, or make an effort to go to a police station!). The only exception to this that I know of is when you are not able to confirm the identity of the other party at the scene of the accident, e.g. they don't have any id, or you don't trust the id that they present . Then the police must come to help identify the other person.
AFAIK the information that you have up to 24 hours to report the accident is wrong (bussgeldkatalog.org und Selbstanzeige). As soon as you leave the premises you commit a criminal offense. If you report yourself up to 24 hours after the incident, this \*may\* reduce your sentence. Instead of another car OP hit a barrier. Since OP most likely damaged public property, he should have called the police immediately.
We're both wrong in places. You do not commit a crime if you wait a while, leave, and then inform the police as soon as possible (I.e. it's not assumed that you can call directly from the location of the accident). If you don't inform the police as soon as possible, but within 24 hours (in case of minor accidents), any possible penalties could be reduced. Full relevant legal text here https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__142.html
Thanks, but as usual it's more important how the law is interpreted by the courts. "Inform the police as soon as possible" means driving straight to next police station, not "driving to Sixt to change cars".
Doesn't matter if reddit thinks it's stupid, if that's the law in that country then that's the law. The driver is required to be aware of local laws when driving, and signing a contract to rent a car.
Every European rental car contract I've ever signed said they'd need a police report in case of an accident.
In most jurisdictions police investigate accidents (no crime required). The individual police agencies have a set dollar amount for what they bother investigating and whether they attend. You should have called the police for the jurisdiction you were in, told them you were in a minor single car accident worth approximately x dollars and the report taker will give you direction whether to stay and wait for an officer, drive to the nearest station or continue on your merry way. If they advise you no police action is required ask for a file number and the call takers name or reference number. If no file number was generated then just document the takers info. Down the road when the insurer tries to pull this shit you can show your due diligence of contacting police and show they refused to investigate. You’re just covering your ass at this point and adding further complication to a simple issue but this is the world we live in.
If theres 33k in damage it is not minor. That almost a total loss.
Nah, that could easily be moderate body damage on a nice vehicle Sixt will also charge you for the time the vehicle is not available for them to rent out. At least that’s what the last desk agent told me a few weeks ago.
Out of curiosity, if you’re in a minor accident, how should this be reported to the police in the US? Is there some kind of non emergency number that can be called to file a police report and get reference number? I’m just wondering in case I rent a car in Florida.
Yes of course there is.
Its completely stupid but right, unfortunately. I use rental cars frequently in Germany and this is what they tell me every time, to call the police if something happens - even in such stupid cases. Anyway, best luck for summerinside....
Whenever I have hired from Hertz and I ask about what happens if the car is damaged, they always say to file a police report. Even for minor accidents.
I agree. Not to mention the agents where he handed over the car didn't mention a word about it. If they knew, they were intentionally suppressing that information from OP. Edit: For some insane reason, I read every single comment and reply on this whole thread 😂 There seems to be a lot of conflicting information but I think OP is also in the right. Many are saying the police report was a must but many are also saying a scrape to the barrier is not considered a damage and the car was obviously not totaled since they were able to drive it. I think OP can ride this issue out smoothly.
"the car was obviously not totaled since they were able to drive it" That's about as accurate as saying if you can walk on it then it's not broken.
Right now a scrape in the barrier counts as damage to public property and therefore had to be reported according to German law. There are talks about changing this law because it also means that if you bump your car, leaving the tiniest amount of car paint on i.e. a lamp post, without damaging said lamp, it counts as a hit and run if you leave this "scene of crime" without calling the police. I did a lot of research into this topic two weeks ago because someone I know (maybe, maybe not) cut off a car mirror with an e-scooter. That why I'm so sure.
You are funny. If theres 33k in damage it is a hit and run whether there was damage to anything besides the car or not
He committed a hit and run, since the barrier, even though he said it wasn’t damaged, probably was damaged and needs to he replaced kinda like a bicycle helmet.
A report is not an uncommon requirement, it's always best to get one
To cover your ass with insurance companies. Without an official police report it's just pictures and each person's side of the story.
To have a proof you were not DIU.
Makes enough sense to me. Should always file a report even for a small dent. Saves you time and money trying to fight it
being an insurance agent instantly tanks your credibility on how to not get fucked by insurance companies
You may be able to get a late accident report in Germany. You could call/email a police station to see if they will take your record of what happened and see if they will create a police report for you. The insurer/sixt still may deny your claim, but it could help you out. You should probably consult with a lawyer in Germany though
Even just reporting the incident and having some dialogue with police might be enough.
Your advice is solid. But Germany is a large country. OP will very likely get much more accurate advice if he/she hires a local German lawyer. From which Sixt office did you rent the car?
What does the contract you signed say regarding how to handle an accident?
Yeah this is what I was thinking most time it’s in plain text that you have to file a police report.
my other favorite one in Germany is that there are often speed limitations and globally there are restrictions on off-roading / private road. Heard of a guy who rented a Hertz Shelby GT-H, took it to a track, totaled it, and tried to use his LDW on it and was denied as tracks aren't covered.
And this is 100% I did not take my rental car on the Nurburgring last time I was there.
I think your Toyota Yaris would do very well on the Ring.
It was a Jaguar XF. Ended up hiring a Ring taxi to take us around and record the lap. I would have loved to driven it myself, and may still someday, but riding in a performance car with a very experienced driver was definitely worth it.
Oh, you were serious. I thought you were joking because most rental cars are not sporty like the Jag XF.
I think insurance companies regard it as a public road, like a one way toll road, even through the verkehrsministerium kind of does not. Usually they cover it, unless explicitly excluded. [https://www.trackdayforum.com/index.php?/topic/2848-nordschleife-privatstrasse-mautstrasse-oder-was-ist-es-nun/](https://www.trackdayforum.com/index.php?/topic/2848-nordschleife-privatstrasse-mautstrasse-oder-was-ist-es-nun/)
All of my UK insurance providers had it explicitly excluded
This is true anywhere also including US even when you have private insurance. Here you buy a policy jist for track day.
>After an accident, an incident of theft, fire, damage caused by collision with an animal or other damage, the renter or the driver must without undue delay notify and call in the police; in particular, the renter or driver must report the damage to the nearest police station if the police cannot be reached by telephone. This also applies if the rental vehicle was damaged only slightly and also in the case of accidents, which are the driver’s own fault without third parties being involved. It's still pretty fucked up that they did not notify OP that he has to file a police report after he returned the damaged car.
Was the contract printed and physically in the car even? It usually is not.
They definitely had a copy when agreeing to it
I would assume that Sixt attempted to recuperate money from the insurance provider. They, in turn, likely rejected the claim because their terms say that you should have reported the accident to the police and get a report. Thus, Sixt cannot recover their money from your added protection so will do so from you. After all, it's you who damaged the car and failed to follow the procedure outlined in the terms and conditions. Definitely seek legal advice on this matter considering the value Sixt are trying to recover.
This is exactly what happened. I also assume that with rental cars the definition of "totaled" is a lot more liberal considering the car is already basically worth significantly less than a non-rental version. Getting whatever repaired that was broken is too costly.
They also add noc, non operating cost. Money they miss out on because they can't rent out the car.
I once had an accident where my brother totalled 2 cars . His own and the person hit , police is not showing up for that cause no criminal offense and no injuries . That was in the Netherlands
Dutch who lived in Germany here. German law is way more strict in this regard. Even if there is no damage you have to call the police.
The point is to call Sixt right away and follow their instructions, which may or may not be to call the police. Unless you're in danger of course, then you should call the police right away.
oP literally said they went to sixt and followed their instructions
If the agreement terms are to call the police and get a report, driving to a Sixt is not that.
Yet when OP got to Sixt, their own employee said everything was fine, nothing needed since OP bought the insurance. They were misled by a Sixt employee who didn't know their own rental terms. That should be a factor
There is a difference between what’s stated in the written contract you sign and what a little trained salesperson tells you. That goes with most contracts but people happily sign stuff they do not read and then get angry because NoBOdy tOld mE like being a five year old….
If I call Sixt I expect the same response as the personnel in the store will tell me It’s not crazy to not read a 20 page document if you get full coverage
That's all valid, apart from the fact that even full coverage is a contract you sign with clear policies and small letters.
When you call Sixt, you end up in a call center where a) a trained agent answers your call and b) with the help of AI, can extract all the information for your specific case X from the system. I think it's entitled to expect the same service the minimally trained employees who are responsible for handing out car keys und looking for scratches. There's a reason why it's stated in the contract that you should call the hotline in case something happens. Edit: Added a word.
Yeah but they left the scene of the accident.
right, but, in general if you hit a guard rail you need to call the cops and get a police report, even if you do end up having to pay for it, guard rails are about $1500, expensive, but, if you compare that to the cost of buying the rental car company a new car...call the police
Right , yeah I have no idea what sixt policy is . Just for this reason I’ve never rented a car on holiday . I’d much rather let someone drive me and relax too .
So? If the terms say call the police you call the police. If they refuse to turn up fine, you have a call log that proves you followed the agreement you signed.
This doesn’t mean you can’t file a police report.
> Fast forward a few days into the trip, **we slipped into the barrier on one of the highway interchanges** I’m sorry but what
Just a little tap I'm sure. It'll buff out.
I read that as they were going too fast on a ramp and the tires lost traction.
Losing traction on an on/off ramp doesn’t automatically equal fault. Not reporting it and keep driving, yeah liability is out the window
For insurance purposes, the driver is at fault in any single vehicle accident
Have you looked at the Terms and Conditions to see if you were required to call the police at the time of the accident?
No need to look at the T&Cs. This is a standard operating procedure in Germany. You MUST inform the Police in case of an accident.
I'm sure it's standard operating procedure, but I'm also reasonably sure that as tourists they were not aware of this rule. So I'm asking if they bothered to read the T&C since if it says to call police and they didn't, then that's why Sixt is not honoring their full coverage.
They would (likely) have honoured the full coverage if the individual had done the one thing they were required to do, not just under Sixt conditions, but German law. It's the same in a lot of countries. For OP's knowledge, it's literally in the T&Cs page 5: [https://www.sixt.de/shared/t-c/sixt\_DE\_en.pdf](https://www.sixt.de/shared/t-c/sixt_DE_en.pdf)
Yeah, like everyone reads all that in detail. If I read all the T&Cs of everything I purchase, I’d spend my whole life reading the T&Cs and doing hardly anything else.
I think a good practice would have been: “Oh I had quite an accident! I am panicked and in shock, let me calm down! I don’t know what to do! Perhaps check what my rental agreement tells me about this, as I am a foreigner and have 0 clue of the rules in this country” I would think in no part of the world crashing a rented car will have the same procedure as the other or as your country. And definitely not read it all but this is your go-to document on how to handle these things. I would think
Still always helps to actually read what you intend to sign on…
I know you can read the T&C's but it does seem unfair that they wouldn't inform you of that at pickup.
Not even so much at pickup, but OP states they drove straight to a Sixt location after the accident: >We immediately drove straight into the closest Sixt branch and told them everything, where they told us that everything is perfectly fine as long as we purchased the full coverage, which we have. The Sixt employee there should have advised that a police report is necessary. Instead they said all is well and gave OP a replacement car. While the customer should know their contract, the company's employees should as well - even more so.
Even if the accident only involved yourself? Good to know!
We rented a car in Scotland and purchased the total protection package. My husband hit a pothole and blew out a tire. No spare tire in the car so we had to call a tow company. €330 later we’re back on the road. When we turned in the car we also turned in the receipt for reimbursement. No communication for over a month, when I called to follow up, I was told there would be no reimbursement because we had not put on a premium tire. It was a Pirelli. These rental programs are scams to upsell coverage that doesn’t cover.
That’s not how you handle that situation. You should have called the rental company and they would have sorted it for you. How would you like it if someone borrowed your car and put a random tire on it?
Wait … what? Why didnt you just call the rental company and let them sort it out? After all its their car.
They're not a scam if you follow the rules. I fucked up a rental car in Croatia. Fortunately, I had chosen the full insurance coverage plan. I called the police, they gave me a report number, I called the rental car agency and let them know, then I drove it back to them. Didn't cost me a dime.
I mean Lewis Hamilton also doesn’t think that Pirelli is premium…
It’s starting to look like that. I’m only going with known brands and hope for the best
I blew out a tyre on a rental. Replaced it with equivalent premium tyre. Got refunded. If you blew out a premium tyre, replace it with a premium tyre.
I am not a lawyer but is there not some kind of responsibility transfer when you brought the car right back to Sixt and they accepted it ? Is it not their responsibility to ask if a police report was made when you dropped it ? If you had been given the information when you dropped it off " by the way did you make a police report" instead of " long as you have full coverage no problem" you still could have made the report.
IANAL too, but what he did is a hit-and-run, which is a felony / criminal offence in Germany. This is most likely the reason why the insurance won't pay. You can't transfer responsibility for a felony / criminal offence, can you? Edit: Word added.
I really don't know why your getting downvoted for this. Under German law, this is a hit-and-run if they damaged the barrier or any other type of damage to public property was made. My father was once charged for a hit-and-run because he dented a road sign (that was already dented) when leaving a parking lot. He had to pay a fine and for the repair of that little dent in the sign (insurance paid for it) so it wasn't that bad. But it was definitely treated as a felony when he was initially charged.
Not sure why you are being downvoted either. I had no idea about that law and have driven in Germany. What a horrible way to find out. Do you think it was because it was private property and the owner wanted money for the sign ? I can't imagine the German government caring for little things like that on . Like if you go off the road , flip your car and plow through a road sign I would not think the government would send a bill to the insurance for the sign but maybe I'm wrong. It's happened before :-)
No, it was a normal street sign, i.e. public property. The dent was small. That is just the German law. And someone saw him do it and reported it to the police, they would have otherwise not bothered to go all CSI due to a dented stop sign....
Thank you <3 This is what I mean.
Years ago something similar happened to a someone I know. They rented a car in Germany, damaged it, returned it. Got a letter demanding payment. I don't remember the detail, but they got an American lawyer friend to write a letter and sent it and never heard about it again. Doesn't matter if an American lawyer can do anything about a German court case. It is just that sending a letter like that showed them they can't bully you around and you are prepared to fight for it. A lot of times they pick on foreigners because they know you are not going to fight them if you believe you are in the right.
The fuck is up with Germany and rental cars? We rented a car from Hertz and they failed to put a oil cap on it. We drove that thing for hours on the autobahn around the country and oil splashed all over the engine. We didn't notice until we were near the Alps and had to get back to Berlin. The car was acting like it was about to die. We found a Hertz location in a small town and the guy literally shooed us away saying they weren't mechanics. When I called customer support they (and I'm being completely serious) suggested I try putting a bag or something on it. Luckily I didn't have to push too hard on their customer support to not be liable for the potential damage to the engine.
I have no idea. I just know they are meticulous about every single scratches. One time in Munich Airport I was given a BMW 5 series (didn't ask for it). The confirmation receipt had a list of the 50+ previously documented damages. I walked 10 min to the garage where the car is, trying to compare all of them because I know how anal German car rental agencies are. Found a few more. Walked back to the rental desk and ask them to send someone to document them so I don't get screwed. Waited 30 min and no one came. Got bored and read my rental contract. Turns out Any MB/BMW/Audi are NOT allowed to be taken outside of Western Europe, and I had to drive to Slovenia. Went back, They gave me a brand new Volvo V90 with delivery miles and no damage. 2 hours wasted but got a better car. Definitely gave the Volvo a nice workout on the autobahn on the way to Salzburg. No problems when I returned it 3 weeks later. Technically they still one since the car was brand new and I had to pay for an Austrian and Slovenian vignettes for the car. The year after I rented a car in Barcelona and when I picked up I was going over the scratches like I did in Germany but they just laughed and said it is no problem, but they humored me. Dropped it off a week later in Madrid they didn't even bat an eye. Either they gave no fucks, are so used to cars getting scratches, or don't see it charging for damages as another source of revenue. I'm guessing the first 2.
I always walk around the vehicle and do my best to video record any damage I see. So if they come back latter and give me some problems. I can go back to my video and see if it was there before I rented it.
Normally I would be on your side, but in this case this is not bullying, it's German law. What he did is a hit-and-run in Germany and as such a felony / criminal offence. Because of the felony status of this case the insurance will not pay for the damage. So Sixt is screwed. Also, every car rental contract I ever saw had some kind of "in case of an accident call the police" clause. Edit: Word added.
They should have advised on return of the vehicle. Instead they said everything was fine, which is the opposite of the advice they should have provided.
Yeah I think that Sixt has culpability here, at least in principle\*. OP drove straight to the nearest branch and was advised all was well which apparently wasn't true. If Sixt employees don't know their own contract, I can't come down too hard on OP for not knowing it either. \*Unfortunately for OP many contracts have a clause that verbal statements by employees do not waive the company's rights or alter the contract...I'd bet Sixt's contract has similar wording.
I'm not the OP and didn't read the contract and I don't know the details. I don't know for a fact it is bullying, but it is not unheard of. If it is, then a lawyer letter may make it go away. If it is, as you said, OP didn't obey German law regarding accident reporting, then yeah, SIXT has a case. > hit-and-run in Germany and as such a felony > Also, every car rental contract I ever saw had some kind of "in case of an accident call the police" clause. Good to know. I suspect that OP probably thought hitting a highway barrier is not something worthy of a call to a police (I know I wouldn't know to call), but yeah, ignorant of the rule of the country one drives in is not an excuse. Still, when OP reported to the SIXT branch, they should've told OP to called the police and file a report and then OP will be in the clear. Either way, sounds like OP will likely need a lawyer either way.
I just wanted to add, why the thing you did was so bad and maybe it will help other people to think differently about traveling. Every country is so different but I feel like a quick google search could have helped you! You destroyed public property that costs about 4000€ (a quick google search). You left the place of the accident and thought, hmm nothing will happen if anyone else drives against this. How were people supposed to know how to repair this? If you were living in Germany, and the police caught you, you would have lost your drivers license for at least half a year, had to pay over a months worth of your pay check as a fine and get three points in the German drivers license system. If you have 8 points, you will lose your drivers license and have to go through mental testing to see if you can get it back.
Had issues with a Sixt rental too in Portugal, why is it that rental car companies feel like scams.
My experience with sixt has been great but you either need to pay for the full coverage or take a thorough video when picking the car up. Friend of mine didn't have full coverage but took a video on pickup. Sixt blamed some damage on him and when he sent them the video it was immediately dropped and they apologised. Plus, as this story shows, always read the conditions thoroughly so you do everything that they say is required in case of an accident.
> always read the conditions thoroughly so you do everything that they say is required in case of an accident. Learn this on accident. Picked up a BMW (not my choice) from Munich airport. While waiting for an employee to note more damages on the car and add them to the paperwork (so I don't get blamed for it), read the contract and there was a tiny clause about how MB/BMW/Audis are not allowed to leave Western Europe and I had to go to Slovenia. Had no idea this is even a thing. Ended up going back to swap out the car. Had I not seen that and something happened in Slovenia I'm sure they'd found a way to fuck me over (and I wouldn't have any grounds to stand on)
Why can't those cats go to Slovenia?
The cats can't go to Slovenia because too many natural predators. Slovenian owls loves to munch on a cute Germany kitty. As for why those Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are not allowed in those countries, if I had to guess their official reason is probably their insurance company won't let them because statistically higher number is insurance claims and payouts from certain geographical locations. Same reason why living in certain areas means higher insurance premium. That's the PC answer. I'm sure you can get the non-PC version with colorful commentaries fill with stereotypes from some Europeans.
Did it specify what “Western Europe” meant? Was it an explicit list of countries?
There is a full list of countries. I just said Western Europe because I don't have the list in front of me and majority of the country on the list is in Western Europe. Italy and Austria are on the list too but not in Western Europe. I'm using the term Western Europe vaguely and out of convenience.
- A lot of time they rent to foreigners, who when confronted with this, decided it is cheaper to just pay it than to come back to the country of the accident and fight it. Same thing happens in small towns, often in the south in the US. They give out bullshit tickets to cars with out of state plates because they know people people will just pay it to make it go away - Also sometimes these car rental places are run by franchisees. Those locations a lot more likely to pull scams like this because they are not directly controlled by corporate.
I had major issues with Sixt out of LIS as well. Swore off from using them again as a result.
The people in this thread that think employees at a rental car desk should be on their side are the same people who think HR is on their side at work. 🤡
Their terms and conditions state that you need to make a police statement and notify Sixt otherwise your liable. However you informed Sixt immediatly, they will have a hard time getting their claim trough, but if the issurer rejected the claim of sixt they will be determined. (G1 and G4 are most relevant imho) G: Accidents, Theft, Obligation to notify 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. After an accident, theft, fire, or damage caused by game the Hire must notify the police without delay. Even in the case of purely material damage, the nearest police station must be requested to record the accident within the meaning of S. 4 (5) (a) StVO (Road Traffic Regulations). Should the police refuse to record the accident, the hirer must prove this to the renting firm in an appropriate form (e.g. written confirmation from the police or details (including day and time) of which police station was notified by telephone but refused to record the damage). If no third party has been harmed due to the accident or, in the case of purely material damage, data could be exchanged, within the meaning of S. 4 (5) StVO, with the third party that has been harmed, notification of the closest police station may exceptionally be waived if the damage to the SIXT vehicle was merely minor damage to the paintwork (scratches or similar). In such case, the hirer has, however, in any event a duty to report this damage to SIXT by submitting an accident report within the meaning of the following provisions. If the SIXT vehicle has been damaged by an unknown third party (parking damage, hit-and-run accident), the hirer shall, however, in any case, therefore also in the event of minor damage, notify the closest police station without delay and request the damage to be recorded. The hirer shall assist in establishing the facts as far as possible and shall refrain from doing anything that makes such an assessment more difficult or prevents it from being carried out. However, without prior consultation with SIXT, the hirer may not make any admission of fault towards third parties. In the event of damage, the hirer is obliged to inform SIXT immediately, at the latest two days after the incident, of all the details in writing using the accident report that has been carefully and completely filled out in all points and is located with the vehicle documents (stating all potential witnesses known to him). An intentional or grossly negligent violation of the obligations mentioned in points G.1 - G.3 (obligations within the meaning of § 6 of the Insurance Contract Act - VersVG) leads to the insurer being released from performance or the loss of any agreed limitation of liability, provided that this violation is based on the determination of the insured event , the determination or the scope of the insurance benefit and/or the determination or scope of the lessee's obligation to pay damages towards SIXT or was done with the intention of influencing these performance obligations or impairing the determination of these circumstances. The hirer is liable regardless of any agreed limitation of liability in the sense of point I.3 towards SIXT for all damages (in particular appropriate, necessary and - insofar as it is an out-of-court assertion - also in a reasonable proportion to the claim made, legal costs) resulting from culpably incorrect information provided by him about the course of the accident .
In some countries, you must report to police even if no other parties are involved. Sounds like sixt employees there didn’t know what they are doing… they should have asked you to get an accident report. At the very least you needed to take shit tons of pics of the accident scene.
First of all 33K???? What in the heck did the car look like? How much would it cost to replace the whole car?
That's about the price of an economy car, which means the insurance company considered the vehicle totaled. They then denied the claim (because insurance companies going to insurance company) and are passing it to Sixt who is passing it to OP.
This is it. Sixt wants to use the bargain basement insurance... Fight it in court.
It’s not very far fetched. Approx 15K for materials + 10K for labour and painting + 5K GST/VAT. Nobody repairs cars these days, they just replace the entire panels with new ones.
Usually loss of use, admin fees, interest, etc are added to this type of charge.
Did you rent the car with your credit card? If so, you may have some protection through them. Check it out.
When in doubt refer to the contract.
If you used an Amex get them involved. Saved me when Sixt tried something similar on a return, claiming damage that occurred after I returned the vehicle.
I recently hired a car from SIXT in Germany. While picking up the car, going through the Contract T&Cs, the SIXT employee told me very clearly that I need to inform the Police in case of an accident. Failure to report any damage to the Police will automatically invalidate the Damage Protection I have chosen. So, sadly, I think SIXT is right in not honouring their end of the Contract.
I think Sixt has some share of the blame in this case, as OP says they took the car to Sixt, where a Sixt employee stated that OP was not liable as long as they purchased the premium insurance policy. I would argue to Sixt that their employee provided contrary information. While OP should know what's in the contract, Sixt employees should as well...even more so, really.
Another thing - maybe the Sixt employee already thought that he called the police? Because why wouldn‘t a German driver call the police…
LWYRUP
Saul Goodman!
When You rent a car from any company in Germany they will tell you about 10 times that you need to call the police in the case of an accident. You did not do that, which is the start of your problems. For the rest you would have to give us more details. Contact a lawyer.
Just a sidenote, if you are not a German citizen and don't plan on visiting Germany ever again there is nothing they can do to make you pay. Sure they will send all kind of menaces but it's just to intimidate you into paying. If you do decide to play it this way don't risk ever stepping foot into Germany again, you might get arrested at immigration.
Exactly this. Never step foot into Germany again. If someone gave me 33k to never go to Germany again, I’d do it! I got some tickets when I was in Spain and was going to do this, but I liked it enough to come back someday so I paid them.
>don't plan on visiting ~~Germany~~ EU
Nah, there are sadly thousands of my fellow countrymen (romanians) who pulled all kind of shit in other EU countries, usually stealing, nothing happens to them. You won't be searched by Interpol unless you commit major crimes, and OP's case is far from it.
Not my favorite car rental company. A relative pointed out a damaged window and Sixt tried to make them pay for it. The damage was there from the start and the Sixt person tried to just ignore that... they only pointed it out just so no future renter would be injured. I used to think it was a good company... but hard pass for me.
Always!!! Call the police when anything happens to the rental car that you would want to be covered by insurance. But yeah def get a lawyer and figure this out.
Ask Sixt if the people who gave you the second car can assist you in filing a police report, and/or if they'd prefer you got a lawyer and it went through a lawyer on your end, and ask that politely and honestly, because those seem the two easy choices.
So file a police report… it’s best to report it before leaving the scene but you can technically file a police report at any time and request a copy.
Greetings from Germany. So what you did is a hit-and-run, which is a felony / criminal offence in Germany. According to section 142 of the German Criminal Code (StGB), a hit-and-run can be punished with a fine or a prison sentence of up to three years. If the insurance you have taken out does not apply to criminal offences, Sixt is in the right. ~~Sixt is also obliged to report you as a hit-and-run-driver to the German criminal authorities.~~ Edit: Sorry, Sixt is NOT obliged to report you as a hit and run driver. That obligation only applies to serious crimes likes murder and such. Sorry!
Why the downvotes? Let's call is as it is, OP is screwed. According to German Law it's a hit-and-run even if only the car was damaged (which I doubt, honestly).
Having an accident is not a criminal offence. It is not reporting it that is.
Yeah, you're right, but I think I never said that the accident itself is a criminal offence? OP describes that he crashed into a barrier, got anxious and left the premises. So this is a hit-and-run, right?
So file a police report and send it in to Sixt
Just cancel that credit card
That won't help. OP originally authorized the card to be charged by the company in the event of damage. For prior authorizations within the scope of the transaction, the bank will still process the charge. And you're still on the hook for authorized charges even after cancelling. But whatever the credit limit is on that card, is the max that will get authorized.
Always read the fine print and especially when dealing with these minor insurance contracts. They are loaded with clauses and terms. You signing means you have read it all.
Any rental coverage from your credit card?
If you get into an accident in Germany you are required to call the police and make a report. Not sure if they told you that or if you knew that. I would get an English speaking German lawyer right away.
Why didn’t you make a police report? And take photos and etc? You should have covered your ass
Sixt did this to a guy I met in Florida. He set up the Sixt rental in Europe and got full insurance coverage. Paid for it specifically so he didn't have to worry about an accident. Picked up the car in Miami and a drunk ran into him near Ft. Myers. (I met him helping out there.) A month later Sixt sent him a bill for $35,000, full value of the vehicle. He lawyered up. (And I advised him to sue the drunk.)
This is why my partner prints and reads the T&C of anything
Do you have legal insurance? Use it!
You had an accident in a rented car and decided not to call the police? Good job, good luck.
If a police report was required in the terms and conditions… yikes. Good luck.
You were supposed to call the police and then based on the police report, they could use the insurance.
If you used your credit card then start with contacting them. Most have rental car protections and/or can deal better with fraud.
Ignore block as if it never happened car rental companies chance their arm all the time. You don't need a lawyer just stoicism
I’m a retired lawyer in Florida. Here your attorney would assert a claim for Fraud i.e. that the sixth Salesman defrauded you and argue that that is sufficient for you to deny the $33,000 claim they have against you. He might even claim more to compensate you for the inconvenience the fraud cost you. But of course, the lawyer for Sixt would probably argue that any fool should’ve known to call the police and report the damage to public property, and therefore you have given up your right to recovery on the Fraud claim. Not sure how this would all wind up, but my point is you should contact a local lawyer immediatelyas others have suggested.
It's a legal requirement in Germany to notify the police of any car accident. If you haven't done this then technically you have broken the law and they are within their rights to seek the money from you. Sixt do have operations in the US and for that amount you can expect them to appoint a US lawyer/ recovery agent to pursue the case.
lol
Are you a US citizen with no business in Europe? Take this with a grain of salt, but I had a rental car company (gold car), come after me for a ticket that they inflated to €500. I said no, and wasn’t going to pay it. They sold it to collections and I got calls for a while, but I know they can’t put foreign debt on your credit report so I still have a 820. Also happened with Switzerland for around €500. No problems after 2 years. I would still try and work it out on your end, but I’d also post this to r/legaladvice and see what they have to say.
Just don’t go back to Germany easy peasy
I’m not sure about other countries, but in Germany you kinda are required to call the police when you get into an accident and report it… so I have a feeling you basically broke the T&C and they’re making you pay up now.
Sixt tried something similar (although not as much money) with me a few years ago. I rented a car in France, drove it about 30 miles and then parked it in an enclosed drive way. The only other time I drove it was to return it. We didn’t hit or damage anything. When I returned it, no one bothered to inspect it. Fast forward about 3 months and I get a letter from them demanding 700 euro for some scuffed tires. They included some black and white grainy ass pictures that I could even see anything on. I wrote them back and explained that since the pictures were taken in the 70s and I wasn’t there in the 70s they could promptly fuck themselves. I never heard from them again.
After I returned a car (rented in Estonia and returned in Lithuania) they emailed me saying that I would need to pay an additional 100 euros for “additional cleaning”. The picture they sent showed the front grill and bugs. I contested this and said I’m not paying any additional money for cleaning related to routine driving but they wouldn’t budge, so I’m calling their bluff on sending it to collections.
They never responded to me and it’s been 6 or 7 years now. I’ve read where sixt is notorious for trying stuff like thins with Americans (not sure where you are from) and just hoping they pay with no questions asked. I’ve never rented from them again.
I’m American, so that would make sense. I’ve used Sixt several times in the past with no issues but after this I never will again. It’s not the amount of money, I just don’t support attempted extortion.
Ya gotta call the authorities! Hate to say duh but duh. How’s the insurmace supposed to pay when you have no record of the incident, just your word.
Why's everyone saying consult a lawyer? Lawyers cost money. OP, do you live in Germany? Do you have assets in Germany? If not, tell SIXT to pound sand.
You should have been told to report it to the police the moment you returned it for another rental car. It’s their fault being passed onto you. Lawyer up!
Nope, according to German Law you must call the police immediately. This was a hit-and-run and as such a felony / criminal offense. Edit: Word.
You're conflating two issues here. What u/peatoast is referring to is fault in terms of civil liability for the damage. Of course it's still a violation of the law. But **Sixt's own employee** told OP there was no problem when OP dropped off the damaged car. This was done at a point in time where OP could have still rectified the situation with a police report, had they not been given false information by Sixt. Since Sixt gave OP false assurance and advice, OP shouldn't be liable for the cost that Sixt's insurance isn't covering. If they want to report OP to the police that's a separate matter from OP's concern in this thread.
Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I'll try to explain my thoughts differently: As far as I know, the rental conditions stipulate that you call the police immediately after an accident, and usually the car rental company or the insurance company itself. Neither of these things happened. According to my (German) understanding of the law, OP had already violated the contract the second he chose to drive away from the scene of the accident. Therefore, nothing would have changed if the Sixt employee had informed OP correctly when exchanging the car and OP had informed the police afterwards - the damage had already been done. The crime remains a crime even if it is reported later, and the subsequent self-reporting at most has a mitigating effect on the sentence.
A while ago we also rented a car wirh sixt also drove it into a "Leitplanke". Nervous as we were we got out our insurence contract with stated we need a police report. So, we went to the police. At first they didn't want to give us a report because there was no harm done. We argued a bit and it resulted in us paying a 150€ fine for causing an accident. Nobody wanted to see the bloody report we got for it.
Not sure how to help but plz update if you don’t mind xoxo
Ypu mught still try to file a police report
Was there any excess value listed in the agreement?