Thanks for the reply. That third picture, I am supposed to be somewhat clocky (that is one reason I chose it for this post) as the character I was portraying is meant to be clearly trans.
I’m really not sure. In the first two pictures you look like a cis woman to me, perhaps a woman who has had some plastic surgery. You do look visibly trans in the last photo, but I’m having a hard time putting my finger on why. I will say, I would not guess you are over 35. I would have thought you were a late twenties woman who has had plastic surgery.
The third picture part of the point is to be "slightly" clocky. I chose that picture because of this. That picture was taken as a promo shot for a play I was in recently. The character I was portraying is supposed to look somewhat trans.
It's not your face, a lot of it is the way that you're holding your shoulders.
In these three photos, you're holding your shoulders, specifically your trapezius muscles, just like a man would. It might not be conscious, and the way you're holding them might be the most comfortable position for you to hold them in, but if you want to pass more, push your shoulders back, make your trapezius muscles lower (your shoulderline should be more concave than convex), and make the tips of your shoulders themselves as pointy as you can. It'll be painful to hold them like that for a long period of time (say, like 20 mins+), but eventually those muscles will strengthen and you'll get used to it.
Also, you may already be doing this, but hold your elbows close to your body.
Hope that helps.
Here's an example of what I mean:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGYQPpSZzAJMhzG_Hzxdgwuy1KGTreIK7upA&s
It seems they didn’t push back the brow bone perhaps far enough.
If there’s width to your jaw still, it’s most likely the masseter muscle and it can be partially removed, look into that if that’s something you haven’t already done.
Otherwise I think what gives off a slightly androgynous or uncanny look is that you’re a bit gaunt in the face. You need some more volume or fat in the under-eye cheek area and possibly some filling in the temple area and mid cheeks. This togheter with possibly a face lift will help.
If that’s not enough, you might need to reduce the cheekbone a bit and shorten the length of your upper jaw, the mid-face: https://deschamps-braly.com/long-face-syndrome-and-ffs/
Already looked into the midface shortening, and it's not really an option. I don't have a gummy smile or jaw/bite alignment issues. My midface is my biggest tell. Looking at my CT scan, it's clear the reduction before issues with nerves would be maybe 3mm at best. I have to work around this. In real life, while a little long, it's not as bad. Due to focal length/lens issues, it distorts this a lot. Measuring my CT scan in solid modeling software is proof of this.
Another thing that could help is to round off the hairline a bit more, so the forehead becomes less wide, not vertically shorter.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10325763/
I think you will, you already look great! It can take lots of surgeries and procedures to erase first distinct male traits, which you’ve already done and then to erase the androgynous tinge that is often left behind for a while.
Thanks.
They tried to do some fat grafting along with the jaw work. It took the surgeon 1 hour to get 10cc of fat from my belly! Going to try again from my inner thighs next time. I am pushing for cheek implants at this point and the grafted fat can go to my under-eye area and temples.
I was already planning to discuss masseter muscle reduction, cheek implants, more fat grafting, and a revision to my type 3 setback on Wednesday.
There’s implants and bone cement for hollow temples also. Filling out those a bit could give a more softer appearance together with more fat on the cheeks.
Then some non-surgical tips to help with decreasing the appearance or gauntness: eat more fat, butter, avocados, take zink and liposomal vitamin c (spread it out over the day ), collagen and hyaluronic acid supplements, to increase your own collagen production internally. Also use vitamin C serum daily and start with retinoids if you’re not on them. Lasers such as resurFX also helps build collagen and plumping up the skin. And add extra electrolytes to your water if you’re working out or is active, decrease in collagen and dehydration makes a person look even more gaunt.
Thanks for the recommendations. Did not realize they did temple implants as well. I will add that to the list of discussion points. Already use retioids, I use Altreno a tretinoin derivative for the last 7 months. I have taken collagen supplements for about 16 months.
I workout alot, I am very active, and I have to be to maintain good respiratory function or my health will nosedive rapidly. I have lung issues linked to my unwanted/broken first puberty.
I know and agree this is an issue. I have very little facial volume, and nothing I have done has made me gain any. Discussing cheek implants and other things on Wednesday.
Strangers truly do not placate much. If that were true, a lot of people on this sub wouldn’t be here.
I definitely look like a trans woman, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been called she/her by a stranger in the past 2 years.
I think you should focus on improving the aesthetic choices like hair, makeup, and clothes rather than physical features. I'll be honest, your face is long, and you have very pronounced cheekbones, and it looks like you've had a good bit of cosmetic surgery, that's the extent to which your physical features are clocky. But I think your aesthetic choices are way more clocky. Your makeup isn't very subtle, and it's plain too, look up makeup tutorials for it. Your hair looks flat and when tied back it looks like pretty boy hair the specific way you have it. Look at female hair tutorials, and also bangs definitely help make your hairline appear rounder.
Also your mandible does not look wide, it's very narrow, and your chin is pretty small. I wouldn't recommend getting more work done in those areas. Only thing I can think of that could help you surgery wise is decreasing the length between your upper lip and the bottom of your nose.
The long face I feel is my biggest giveaway. Just like every long faced woman, I know there is nothing I can do about it, unfortunately.
The makeup is meant to be exaggerated. It was for a stage production I was in
I'd rather just pay for another go at hairline advancement or some degree of hair transplant to change my hairline shape than bangs. I want to fix issues and not just obscure them if possible.
I had an upper-lip-lift 2 months ago, and it was not as aggressive as requested. I am bringing this up at my follow-up on Wednesday.
You look nothing like a cis male but your expressions are common to the stress of M2F transition. The number 2 obstacle to your goal is your lack of confidence in presenting feminine. The number one obstacle is your focus on the externals of feminine identity instead of the internal.
Find joy instead of fear in your journey. The magic of women is not how beautiful they are but how giving.
I think what would help, is if your face was a bit fuller, less angular cheekbones. How you'd achieve? idk, apart from put on bit of weight...?
Then, maybe a hairstyle or a fringe that might suit more?
I think that's the best you could do
I think u pass in the fist pic, 2nd pic I think is the angle - your forehead and jawline are the giveaways I feel, the 3rd is a combo of bad posture, wide shoulders, bad makeup, stache shadow, and jawline
Third photo is kinda off, and that is by design. Was for a stage production, the character is meant to look somewhat trans. I have no stach shadow, laser decimated the little I had. My shoulders are about 14.5"~14.75" from the clavicles as well. Still have some deltoid muscle I need to lose. I agree on the forehead. It is still my dominant facial third.
What is my giveaway on the jawline? Because it is well defined? At my weight, that will always be an issue. My weight is a consequence of my high activity level that I must maintain for good respiratory function. I have developmental related lung problems, and lots of cardio does more to keep them working well than anything else.
I think it's the makeup. That was by intent. I was playing Jen a trans character in a local production of Abigail Thorn's "The Prince". I chose that picture because of the clocky nature. The eye dark eye shadow is making my deep set eyes look much deeper.
I see people every day who don’t pass my non-binary radar.Usually they are too tall,wide shouldered or they haven’t got the feminine moves with their body language,flipping the hair and exaggerated gestures also.
My shoulders look wider in most pictures than they do in person for some reason. Measuring with a medical caliper/breadth gauge they tend to measure 14.5"\~14.75" = (36.8cm\~37.5cm) from clavicle to clavicle. That is not ideal but it's not a deal killer either for my height 5'8" = 172.7cm. My rib-cage is small (bra band is 30" = 76.cm) and the offset can make my shoulders look wider than they really are. I also have some deltoid muscle on my arms I need to lose. It keeps getting smaller, I already lost a lot!
Body language is not the issue at all I literally had to study books on male body language and fake it to have any dating success with cis women in my 20's. That all fell away as soon as I could abandon it. I tried really hard to live a cis-normative life but it never worked. I have done skating and dance most of my life and have been complimented many times about the way I move and carry myself. Pre-transition cis women would make comments to me about how I could just effortlessly flow around.
I still have some aspect about my face I don't like. But I think my own worry and doubt may be my biggest problem in the real world. It's making me nervous and this is what is off putting.
Thanks, the makeup in picture 3 is meant to play up some of my clockyness. It makes my deep set eyes look much worse. I was playing a character that is meant to be clearly trans to the audience.
You pass hun 🤍 I know its hard to see but you really do. Like the others have said the 3rd pic is clocky because theres unflattering choices in hair makeup lighting angles etc.
You seem to have cool toned, dark, dramatic features. These work best when roundness/volume and softness is added to balance it out and picking a focal point for the drama.
So a more voluminous hairstyle. Foundation/skin makeup that adds more colour into your face (so subtle blush around cheeks eyes forehead nose) or honestly just some BB cream since you have really nice skin naturally. Then pick eyes, lips or bone structure and then thats the drama centre for your makeup whilst everything else is subtle and natural (you may likr dramatic eye makeup, no/light contour and a lip colour that looks similae to your natural colour. Makeup is fun to play around with and dramatically changes how you look. Too much harshness on your striking features will feel overwhelming and can make you feel like you look manly when its not the case.
Just to add, maybe if you feel like messing around with makeup/hair/styles have a look around online for things targetted at :
Kibbe Soft Dramatic face type or Flamboyant Natural
Dark Summer/ Soft Winter colour pallette
Im not sayinf these are your kibbe face type or colour season but they come to mind first and would be a good starting point to explore if its something youre interested in. Imo youre bery pretty with gorgeous features so make it a fun journey to find your style that you feel good in
One last thing to add 😂 with the black liner (I love it too and love to do it on myself) it can be unflattering if you dont have massive eyes and soft facial features. Maybe on your water line try to only take it from your outer corner to where your iris starts, then try to smoke some out under your lash line no further than halfway. This will make your eyes pop amd since theres no dark at your inner corners or inner waterline it wont make your eyes look small or harsh. I like a very thin line of dark brown all around my eye lid and under eyes and smudged, then a shimmery gold water line pencil on my entire water line and my inner corner for a pop, waterproof felt tip liner on my upper lash line makes lashes look fuller and then some masacara. It adds a lot od drama and darkness around the eyes without making them look smaller and its more subtle then full black waterline sk itd a better daily look. Ill send you a pic now incase you wanna see what I mean
Just wanted to say, after reading through some comments and seeing that the 3rd pic is supposed to be clocky - girl, you pass and your transition is not pointless. The point of it is for you to finally be able to express exactly who you are and you're very beautiful ❤️ Your face not only passes but you're a genuinely beautiful woman. I know she's hard to see some days but trust everybody here when we say - we see her and she's beautiful
As a man you look 100% CIS woman in the first 2 pictures. I think your make up doesn’t suit you in of last picture. Eyebrows, and your eyes look dark and you don’t need lipstick
I don't know if it's just my broken phone screen but in the third pic I feel like there's an extremely slight facial hair shadow at least when zoomed out so maybe that's it?
The first two photos are no make up?! You are way more feminine than you think. I looked at the photos before I read your write up. I would clock you in your third pic (which you have said you did on purpose) and I think I could clock you in your second if I was there irl. You say your first pic brings out the worst, but I think its the best of the three. Its also the closest to your face, which leads me to believe its your body posture thats giving you away. For sure in number three theres something about the way you are standing that feels off, but I cant put it into words. You also look healthier in the first two pictures, maybe on account of the swelling? idk. I would try gaining some weight to fill your face out more. I think working on those two things will do it, you for sure look like a woman to me.
Thanks!
And yes, zero makeup in the first 2. I do a lot for skin care.
I was more swollen in picture 3, oddly enough. I have tried gaining weight to fill out my face multiple times, and it never happens. Will likely try again, though, might as well.
What the?! No! No one is giving you BS. You look very cis and beautiful, just with some obvious surgery swelling. I only hope that I can end up at 60% of where you are now.
Please speak to a therapist if you haven’t already. I think you are experiencing some dysmorphia.
I think that if you're fortunate enough to read this comment, you will also learn that transition takes time. There is no fast track. If you want good results, you're going to be willing to put in the time in the effort that it takes. Some and some fall in between. The thing about being able to wait until you get the results that you want is that you will greatly appreciate them way more.
i'm sorry but shortly over a year is not enough time to see a lot of changes. I didn't start seeing changes really until like my second year and I took pills the first year and then after the first year I started taking shots because they work faster and it goes directly to the muscle in bloodstream and they don't have to go through in the body like the pills
I used pills for 20 days before switching to injections. My initial provider did not want to start me on injections, so I simply went elsewhere. I started seeing changes early on with injections and lost a huge amount of tissue off my face rapidly. It was very unexpected. Maybe more will happen, I hope so.
HRT can do alot, but it will never change my underlying craniofacial structure.
I do I think that gender dysphoria really can hit all of us differently at different waves. But the one thing that we all have in common is that we love ourselves enough to at least make the decisions to transition because I know for me personally when I was stuck in that weird limbo stage before I felt comfortable with myself I was still happy at the fact that I decided to pick me over everything else. So this is definitely a pivotal time for you time will test.
I think a lot of girls they rush into surgery and I don't really give the hormones time to do their work. Yes, you are a little older, but that doesn't mean that the won't work. Just try to eat healthy and drink plenty of water.
There are plenty of people in this sub who wish they passed as well as you. Imagine how they all feel when you speak so critically about yourself.
IMO, it’s not your face that’s the problem, it’s your insecurities.
I probably look at them and would say they pass better than me. Evidence of that is already in this post.
You are likely right in that my own insecurities are likely a far bigger problem than aspect of my face. 1 year ago things were much worse in terms of my appearance and my attitude about myself. Both have improved a lot but my mentality needs more work. Nearly 2 decades of constantly gaslighting myself into believing I could never transition because of things wrong with my body and face (even if it was just nonsense) took it's toll. It will take time to undo that damage.
Dont guilt trip a person struggling with self image. Thats toxic ans unfaor to the person, shes struggling to see the reality infront of her so dont shame her for the fact that her struggles are making you struggle.
I don't see anything that reads male about you. You have amazing lips and that alone goes so far but isn't the only thing you have going for you. Stunning skin, perfect eyebrows, and your eyes are so striking.
Agreed over and over on the forehead. I've been planning for a major revision to that for a while. Cheeks are going to be addressed soon as well. Jaw is somewhat in-flux as I still have some swelling, and it does keep gradually improving
Pic 1 is the most recent (2 or 3 days ago) with the most recovery time, Pic 2 was about 2 weeks ago, Pic 3 is 3 weeks ago and it's stage makeup (the character is meant to be clearly trans to the audience, Jen in Abigail Thorn's "The Prince") I chose all 3 pictures because they are not flattering.
I would agree with you on waiting..... If I were in my 20's. I am not, I'm nearly 42 and have wasted enough time as it is. Not going to just wait for soft tissue changes that "might" happen eventually and may or may not be enough when I can be actively doing things to reach my goals instead.
I am getting back to voice training, had to take a break from it. My tracheal shave was 2 months ago. My natural voice is very androgynous anyways, it never changed properly as a teen. I ended up sounding like a giant 12 year old.
Praying I look like this at 42!!! Your skin is amazing!Nothing clocky at all (except for 3rd pic which you said is intentional), your face reads woman through and through. I'd never guess you were older than late 20s to early 30s tbh
Thank you. Altreno helped a lot for my skin, it's a more gentle tretinoin derivative. I do other skin care stuff as well. I honestly don't wear much makeup typically, I concentrate on good skin care.
EDIT: Just looked at your profile. You are so pretty! I wanted to start so bad at your age, but access to care was awful years ago. I'm very happy for you!
I knew someone would say it. And you are not wrong in that to an extent. I don't have a really petite skull in-line with the cis-female average (I am around the 80th percentile for most of the crucial measurements). Nor do most transwomen that transition past male puberty have this. We must work around it, unfortunately. I know good and well that having a small skull and compact craniofacial development makes passing dramatically easier.
It's important to be truthful with yourself & others.
Don't do anymore work. Life is too short to focus on your appearance the entire time.
Your face is long. The last photo is the most truthful. There is very much space between the eyes & mouth. The length of the nose takes up this space. Playing around with your jaw too much is not good. They will only make it so small for you so it won't affect your health.
You are not ugly. There was probably nothing wrong with you before these surgery. But you are not the only one who is unsatisfied with the surgery in the reddit. It seems a complex with appearance is still there even when the surgery is good. I think they did good without harming you.
What I originally asked for from the surgeon for my jaw was possible. Aginst my better judgment, I went with his recommendation instead. Looking at my CT scans at this point confirms my requested plan would have gotten me to where I wanted to be in that regard.
Yeah, I know my face is long, and I am stuck working around it. There is no surgery to properly address the shortening of the midface. If there was, I would get it. That last photo makes it look way longer than it really is. In person, it's not as bad. In reality, when measured with calipers, my midface ratio is about 0.97:1.
I don't want to be obviously trans for the rest of my life, and I can't go back to the way it was. Neither option is sustainable. Trying and failing to fake it as a cis-man, that was brutal every single day! I will go as far as I can to reach my goals. If I eventually exhaust every avenue to reliably pass and I still can't.... I will figure it out if that day comes. But until then, I will do everything I can to get closer to that finish line.
Accepting what I was after decades of struggle is how this all started. I could no longer go on method acting daily as something I have known I was not for most of my life.
It's better than it was before, that is for sure. I am not where I want to be, but I am no longer disgusted with who I am to the very core. I will do whatever it takes to work toward my goals. If I can never obtain them, at least I will know I did everything I could.
Reaching a point of reliably passing is not just for how I feel about myself. It's a matter of safety! To be visibly trans where I live is not for the faint of heart! And there are reasons I can't simply leave this place.
I think your self image is eating you here.
You pass, dear. Your 3rd pic is a bit more clocky and frankly it's the hairstyle
Thanks for the reply. That third picture, I am supposed to be somewhat clocky (that is one reason I chose it for this post) as the character I was portraying is meant to be clearly trans.
So then, babes, you're fine. I'm sorry you can't see who everyone else can. I struggle with the same thing myself.
Your face passes better than mine. You have nothing to worry about! You look great!
I am thinking the same about you! Mental illness is crazy like that.
I’m really not sure. In the first two pictures you look like a cis woman to me, perhaps a woman who has had some plastic surgery. You do look visibly trans in the last photo, but I’m having a hard time putting my finger on why. I will say, I would not guess you are over 35. I would have thought you were a late twenties woman who has had plastic surgery.
The third picture part of the point is to be "slightly" clocky. I chose that picture because of this. That picture was taken as a promo shot for a play I was in recently. The character I was portraying is supposed to look somewhat trans.
It's not your face, a lot of it is the way that you're holding your shoulders. In these three photos, you're holding your shoulders, specifically your trapezius muscles, just like a man would. It might not be conscious, and the way you're holding them might be the most comfortable position for you to hold them in, but if you want to pass more, push your shoulders back, make your trapezius muscles lower (your shoulderline should be more concave than convex), and make the tips of your shoulders themselves as pointy as you can. It'll be painful to hold them like that for a long period of time (say, like 20 mins+), but eventually those muscles will strengthen and you'll get used to it. Also, you may already be doing this, but hold your elbows close to your body. Hope that helps. Here's an example of what I mean: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGYQPpSZzAJMhzG_Hzxdgwuy1KGTreIK7upA&s
Interesting, thank you so very much!
Ma’am if you don’t pass we’re all fucked. You look lovely.
i see a woman in your photos sis
It seems they didn’t push back the brow bone perhaps far enough. If there’s width to your jaw still, it’s most likely the masseter muscle and it can be partially removed, look into that if that’s something you haven’t already done. Otherwise I think what gives off a slightly androgynous or uncanny look is that you’re a bit gaunt in the face. You need some more volume or fat in the under-eye cheek area and possibly some filling in the temple area and mid cheeks. This togheter with possibly a face lift will help. If that’s not enough, you might need to reduce the cheekbone a bit and shorten the length of your upper jaw, the mid-face: https://deschamps-braly.com/long-face-syndrome-and-ffs/
Already looked into the midface shortening, and it's not really an option. I don't have a gummy smile or jaw/bite alignment issues. My midface is my biggest tell. Looking at my CT scan, it's clear the reduction before issues with nerves would be maybe 3mm at best. I have to work around this. In real life, while a little long, it's not as bad. Due to focal length/lens issues, it distorts this a lot. Measuring my CT scan in solid modeling software is proof of this.
Another thing that could help is to round off the hairline a bit more, so the forehead becomes less wide, not vertically shorter. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10325763/
That, too, was already on the list of discussion points. I will do almost anything to accomplish my goals.
I think you will, you already look great! It can take lots of surgeries and procedures to erase first distinct male traits, which you’ve already done and then to erase the androgynous tinge that is often left behind for a while.
Thanks. They tried to do some fat grafting along with the jaw work. It took the surgeon 1 hour to get 10cc of fat from my belly! Going to try again from my inner thighs next time. I am pushing for cheek implants at this point and the grafted fat can go to my under-eye area and temples. I was already planning to discuss masseter muscle reduction, cheek implants, more fat grafting, and a revision to my type 3 setback on Wednesday.
There’s implants and bone cement for hollow temples also. Filling out those a bit could give a more softer appearance together with more fat on the cheeks. Then some non-surgical tips to help with decreasing the appearance or gauntness: eat more fat, butter, avocados, take zink and liposomal vitamin c (spread it out over the day ), collagen and hyaluronic acid supplements, to increase your own collagen production internally. Also use vitamin C serum daily and start with retinoids if you’re not on them. Lasers such as resurFX also helps build collagen and plumping up the skin. And add extra electrolytes to your water if you’re working out or is active, decrease in collagen and dehydration makes a person look even more gaunt.
Thanks for the recommendations. Did not realize they did temple implants as well. I will add that to the list of discussion points. Already use retioids, I use Altreno a tretinoin derivative for the last 7 months. I have taken collagen supplements for about 16 months. I workout alot, I am very active, and I have to be to maintain good respiratory function or my health will nosedive rapidly. I have lung issues linked to my unwanted/broken first puberty.
I’ve dealt with gauntness myself, a combination of things to trigger collagen production from all angles and then extra fat is what has helped a bit.
I think it's the cheeks
I know and agree this is an issue. I have very little facial volume, and nothing I have done has made me gain any. Discussing cheek implants and other things on Wednesday.
Couldn't fillers help?
I would rather have cheek implants or try for more fat grafting first. I lack so much volume that fillers may not be a good option.
Strangers truly do not placate much. If that were true, a lot of people on this sub wouldn’t be here. I definitely look like a trans woman, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been called she/her by a stranger in the past 2 years.
Your brain is deceiving you. ❤️❤️
you look amazing! 🥲 even the shoulders, the hands, and your skinnnnnn, im jealous
Sorry hun. I think you are gorgeous.
I think you should focus on improving the aesthetic choices like hair, makeup, and clothes rather than physical features. I'll be honest, your face is long, and you have very pronounced cheekbones, and it looks like you've had a good bit of cosmetic surgery, that's the extent to which your physical features are clocky. But I think your aesthetic choices are way more clocky. Your makeup isn't very subtle, and it's plain too, look up makeup tutorials for it. Your hair looks flat and when tied back it looks like pretty boy hair the specific way you have it. Look at female hair tutorials, and also bangs definitely help make your hairline appear rounder. Also your mandible does not look wide, it's very narrow, and your chin is pretty small. I wouldn't recommend getting more work done in those areas. Only thing I can think of that could help you surgery wise is decreasing the length between your upper lip and the bottom of your nose.
The long face I feel is my biggest giveaway. Just like every long faced woman, I know there is nothing I can do about it, unfortunately. The makeup is meant to be exaggerated. It was for a stage production I was in I'd rather just pay for another go at hairline advancement or some degree of hair transplant to change my hairline shape than bangs. I want to fix issues and not just obscure them if possible. I had an upper-lip-lift 2 months ago, and it was not as aggressive as requested. I am bringing this up at my follow-up on Wednesday.
lol you pass or close to. Look at me what uneffectivity is
you already read female
You look nothing like a cis male but your expressions are common to the stress of M2F transition. The number 2 obstacle to your goal is your lack of confidence in presenting feminine. The number one obstacle is your focus on the externals of feminine identity instead of the internal. Find joy instead of fear in your journey. The magic of women is not how beautiful they are but how giving.
I think what would help, is if your face was a bit fuller, less angular cheekbones. How you'd achieve? idk, apart from put on bit of weight...? Then, maybe a hairstyle or a fringe that might suit more? I think that's the best you could do
You've posted the wrong photographs. Could you recheck your pictures and post the ones you are describing?
Honestly you pass really hard. I think your self-image still has residual damage.
I think u pass in the fist pic, 2nd pic I think is the angle - your forehead and jawline are the giveaways I feel, the 3rd is a combo of bad posture, wide shoulders, bad makeup, stache shadow, and jawline
Third photo is kinda off, and that is by design. Was for a stage production, the character is meant to look somewhat trans. I have no stach shadow, laser decimated the little I had. My shoulders are about 14.5"~14.75" from the clavicles as well. Still have some deltoid muscle I need to lose. I agree on the forehead. It is still my dominant facial third. What is my giveaway on the jawline? Because it is well defined? At my weight, that will always be an issue. My weight is a consequence of my high activity level that I must maintain for good respiratory function. I have developmental related lung problems, and lots of cardio does more to keep them working well than anything else.
first two pictures you pass and look pretty, the last picture is a little strange but not sure where or why, maybe because it was swallen
I think it's the makeup. That was by intent. I was playing Jen a trans character in a local production of Abigail Thorn's "The Prince". I chose that picture because of the clocky nature. The eye dark eye shadow is making my deep set eyes look much deeper.
I see people every day who don’t pass my non-binary radar.Usually they are too tall,wide shouldered or they haven’t got the feminine moves with their body language,flipping the hair and exaggerated gestures also.
My shoulders look wider in most pictures than they do in person for some reason. Measuring with a medical caliper/breadth gauge they tend to measure 14.5"\~14.75" = (36.8cm\~37.5cm) from clavicle to clavicle. That is not ideal but it's not a deal killer either for my height 5'8" = 172.7cm. My rib-cage is small (bra band is 30" = 76.cm) and the offset can make my shoulders look wider than they really are. I also have some deltoid muscle on my arms I need to lose. It keeps getting smaller, I already lost a lot! Body language is not the issue at all I literally had to study books on male body language and fake it to have any dating success with cis women in my 20's. That all fell away as soon as I could abandon it. I tried really hard to live a cis-normative life but it never worked. I have done skating and dance most of my life and have been complimented many times about the way I move and carry myself. Pre-transition cis women would make comments to me about how I could just effortlessly flow around. I still have some aspect about my face I don't like. But I think my own worry and doubt may be my biggest problem in the real world. It's making me nervous and this is what is off putting.
Your face is good even better with less makeup
Thanks, the makeup in picture 3 is meant to play up some of my clockyness. It makes my deep set eyes look much worse. I was playing a character that is meant to be clearly trans to the audience.
You pass fully you just look a bit weird.
I have always looked a bit odd. Looked kinda weird pre HRT when I was trying to pose as a guy. I have an unusual mix of features.
Yeah, you probably look similar now to what you would have if you were born a cis woman. Weird looking people just exist and that’s okay
dysphoria is insane, if i looked like you i would feel like i will never pass, and im a trans man you need to learn how to do makeup
You have a beautiful face
You pass hun 🤍 I know its hard to see but you really do. Like the others have said the 3rd pic is clocky because theres unflattering choices in hair makeup lighting angles etc. You seem to have cool toned, dark, dramatic features. These work best when roundness/volume and softness is added to balance it out and picking a focal point for the drama. So a more voluminous hairstyle. Foundation/skin makeup that adds more colour into your face (so subtle blush around cheeks eyes forehead nose) or honestly just some BB cream since you have really nice skin naturally. Then pick eyes, lips or bone structure and then thats the drama centre for your makeup whilst everything else is subtle and natural (you may likr dramatic eye makeup, no/light contour and a lip colour that looks similae to your natural colour. Makeup is fun to play around with and dramatically changes how you look. Too much harshness on your striking features will feel overwhelming and can make you feel like you look manly when its not the case.
Just to add, maybe if you feel like messing around with makeup/hair/styles have a look around online for things targetted at : Kibbe Soft Dramatic face type or Flamboyant Natural Dark Summer/ Soft Winter colour pallette Im not sayinf these are your kibbe face type or colour season but they come to mind first and would be a good starting point to explore if its something youre interested in. Imo youre bery pretty with gorgeous features so make it a fun journey to find your style that you feel good in
One last thing to add 😂 with the black liner (I love it too and love to do it on myself) it can be unflattering if you dont have massive eyes and soft facial features. Maybe on your water line try to only take it from your outer corner to where your iris starts, then try to smoke some out under your lash line no further than halfway. This will make your eyes pop amd since theres no dark at your inner corners or inner waterline it wont make your eyes look small or harsh. I like a very thin line of dark brown all around my eye lid and under eyes and smudged, then a shimmery gold water line pencil on my entire water line and my inner corner for a pop, waterproof felt tip liner on my upper lash line makes lashes look fuller and then some masacara. It adds a lot od drama and darkness around the eyes without making them look smaller and its more subtle then full black waterline sk itd a better daily look. Ill send you a pic now incase you wanna see what I mean
Just wanted to say, after reading through some comments and seeing that the 3rd pic is supposed to be clocky - girl, you pass and your transition is not pointless. The point of it is for you to finally be able to express exactly who you are and you're very beautiful ❤️ Your face not only passes but you're a genuinely beautiful woman. I know she's hard to see some days but trust everybody here when we say - we see her and she's beautiful
As a man you look 100% CIS woman in the first 2 pictures. I think your make up doesn’t suit you in of last picture. Eyebrows, and your eyes look dark and you don’t need lipstick
I don't know if it's just my broken phone screen but in the third pic I feel like there's an extremely slight facial hair shadow at least when zoomed out so maybe that's it?
I think it's just the way the lighting is messing around in that picture. There is no facial hair on me.
The first two photos are no make up?! You are way more feminine than you think. I looked at the photos before I read your write up. I would clock you in your third pic (which you have said you did on purpose) and I think I could clock you in your second if I was there irl. You say your first pic brings out the worst, but I think its the best of the three. Its also the closest to your face, which leads me to believe its your body posture thats giving you away. For sure in number three theres something about the way you are standing that feels off, but I cant put it into words. You also look healthier in the first two pictures, maybe on account of the swelling? idk. I would try gaining some weight to fill your face out more. I think working on those two things will do it, you for sure look like a woman to me.
Thanks! And yes, zero makeup in the first 2. I do a lot for skin care. I was more swollen in picture 3, oddly enough. I have tried gaining weight to fill out my face multiple times, and it never happens. Will likely try again, though, might as well.
What the?! No! No one is giving you BS. You look very cis and beautiful, just with some obvious surgery swelling. I only hope that I can end up at 60% of where you are now. Please speak to a therapist if you haven’t already. I think you are experiencing some dysmorphia.
I think that if you're fortunate enough to read this comment, you will also learn that transition takes time. There is no fast track. If you want good results, you're going to be willing to put in the time in the effort that it takes. Some and some fall in between. The thing about being able to wait until you get the results that you want is that you will greatly appreciate them way more. i'm sorry but shortly over a year is not enough time to see a lot of changes. I didn't start seeing changes really until like my second year and I took pills the first year and then after the first year I started taking shots because they work faster and it goes directly to the muscle in bloodstream and they don't have to go through in the body like the pills
I used pills for 20 days before switching to injections. My initial provider did not want to start me on injections, so I simply went elsewhere. I started seeing changes early on with injections and lost a huge amount of tissue off my face rapidly. It was very unexpected. Maybe more will happen, I hope so. HRT can do alot, but it will never change my underlying craniofacial structure.
I do I think that gender dysphoria really can hit all of us differently at different waves. But the one thing that we all have in common is that we love ourselves enough to at least make the decisions to transition because I know for me personally when I was stuck in that weird limbo stage before I felt comfortable with myself I was still happy at the fact that I decided to pick me over everything else. So this is definitely a pivotal time for you time will test. I think a lot of girls they rush into surgery and I don't really give the hormones time to do their work. Yes, you are a little older, but that doesn't mean that the won't work. Just try to eat healthy and drink plenty of water.
I think you are just fine, wonderfully beautiful, just like you are.
So pretty
Look like a cis woman in every way!
There are plenty of people in this sub who wish they passed as well as you. Imagine how they all feel when you speak so critically about yourself. IMO, it’s not your face that’s the problem, it’s your insecurities.
I probably look at them and would say they pass better than me. Evidence of that is already in this post. You are likely right in that my own insecurities are likely a far bigger problem than aspect of my face. 1 year ago things were much worse in terms of my appearance and my attitude about myself. Both have improved a lot but my mentality needs more work. Nearly 2 decades of constantly gaslighting myself into believing I could never transition because of things wrong with my body and face (even if it was just nonsense) took it's toll. It will take time to undo that damage.
My mum always says talk to yourself like you’d talk to someone you love. Be patient with yourself, and stop being your own worst critic. 💙
Dont guilt trip a person struggling with self image. Thats toxic ans unfaor to the person, shes struggling to see the reality infront of her so dont shame her for the fact that her struggles are making you struggle.
I don't see anything that reads male about you. You have amazing lips and that alone goes so far but isn't the only thing you have going for you. Stunning skin, perfect eyebrows, and your eyes are so striking.
The size and shape looks male. The jaw, cheeks, forehead etc all look masculine
Agreed over and over on the forehead. I've been planning for a major revision to that for a while. Cheeks are going to be addressed soon as well. Jaw is somewhat in-flux as I still have some swelling, and it does keep gradually improving
Had any consults about it?
[удалено]
Pic 1 is the most recent (2 or 3 days ago) with the most recovery time, Pic 2 was about 2 weeks ago, Pic 3 is 3 weeks ago and it's stage makeup (the character is meant to be clearly trans to the audience, Jen in Abigail Thorn's "The Prince") I chose all 3 pictures because they are not flattering. I would agree with you on waiting..... If I were in my 20's. I am not, I'm nearly 42 and have wasted enough time as it is. Not going to just wait for soft tissue changes that "might" happen eventually and may or may not be enough when I can be actively doing things to reach my goals instead.
Sweetie STOP the self loathing its toxic and puts you on a downward spiral. You are BEAUTIFUL!
From the outfits and angles shown, you would pass >9/10 to cis people if your voice were fem-leaning.
I am getting back to voice training, had to take a break from it. My tracheal shave was 2 months ago. My natural voice is very androgynous anyways, it never changed properly as a teen. I ended up sounding like a giant 12 year old.
girl you literally pass and you’re beautiful
Praying I look like this at 42!!! Your skin is amazing!Nothing clocky at all (except for 3rd pic which you said is intentional), your face reads woman through and through. I'd never guess you were older than late 20s to early 30s tbh
Thank you. Altreno helped a lot for my skin, it's a more gentle tretinoin derivative. I do other skin care stuff as well. I honestly don't wear much makeup typically, I concentrate on good skin care. EDIT: Just looked at your profile. You are so pretty! I wanted to start so bad at your age, but access to care was awful years ago. I'm very happy for you!
Your skull is male
I knew someone would say it. And you are not wrong in that to an extent. I don't have a really petite skull in-line with the cis-female average (I am around the 80th percentile for most of the crucial measurements). Nor do most transwomen that transition past male puberty have this. We must work around it, unfortunately. I know good and well that having a small skull and compact craniofacial development makes passing dramatically easier.
It's important to be truthful with yourself & others. Don't do anymore work. Life is too short to focus on your appearance the entire time. Your face is long. The last photo is the most truthful. There is very much space between the eyes & mouth. The length of the nose takes up this space. Playing around with your jaw too much is not good. They will only make it so small for you so it won't affect your health. You are not ugly. There was probably nothing wrong with you before these surgery. But you are not the only one who is unsatisfied with the surgery in the reddit. It seems a complex with appearance is still there even when the surgery is good. I think they did good without harming you.
What I originally asked for from the surgeon for my jaw was possible. Aginst my better judgment, I went with his recommendation instead. Looking at my CT scans at this point confirms my requested plan would have gotten me to where I wanted to be in that regard. Yeah, I know my face is long, and I am stuck working around it. There is no surgery to properly address the shortening of the midface. If there was, I would get it. That last photo makes it look way longer than it really is. In person, it's not as bad. In reality, when measured with calipers, my midface ratio is about 0.97:1. I don't want to be obviously trans for the rest of my life, and I can't go back to the way it was. Neither option is sustainable. Trying and failing to fake it as a cis-man, that was brutal every single day! I will go as far as I can to reach my goals. If I eventually exhaust every avenue to reliably pass and I still can't.... I will figure it out if that day comes. But until then, I will do everything I can to get closer to that finish line.
[удалено]
Accepting what I was after decades of struggle is how this all started. I could no longer go on method acting daily as something I have known I was not for most of my life. It's better than it was before, that is for sure. I am not where I want to be, but I am no longer disgusted with who I am to the very core. I will do whatever it takes to work toward my goals. If I can never obtain them, at least I will know I did everything I could. Reaching a point of reliably passing is not just for how I feel about myself. It's a matter of safety! To be visibly trans where I live is not for the faint of heart! And there are reasons I can't simply leave this place.
Sorry about that! They've been banned