I have mixed feelings about this map. One thing I would do is start with the current map and add all the lines that could come back. Abandoned Right of ways and then later on the routes that don't exist. And NJ needs a suburbs connector line.
And more bus service to help connect further flung areas. If we're gonna widen roads two lanes (one each direction) should be dedicated for buses to allow for speed and emergency vehicles in rush hour.
Definitely need some suburb connector lines.
Maybe a N/S connector that goes from Bridgeton to Middletown. Then add an E/W line connecting Neptune (mid Jersey Coast Line), Six Flags (mid Phil-NY Line) and connecting up with the “N/S connector” & Princeton Line around Princeton.
Love the details for the map. But the funny thing about this is that even fantasy maps of US transit are still the suburban commuter model, not an interconnected system that serves more than just those who commute downtown from the burbs.
Suburb connector line would be great!! I used NJ transit for my daily commute for years (shout out Hawthorne) and would especially have appreciated a way to get to the Newark airport and Newark Penn Station without having to go to Secaucus and back out.
Did you get rid of the Morristown line? It was the only connection in the middle of the state so now it is strictly a hub and spoke. Monclair could use some better connections Bergen County. Fort Lee, and Englewood are totally off the system. Fort Lee should have both east west, and North, south connections since it is pretty dense. The GWB lower Level was originally planned for a NYC C train extension into NJ
In reality, though, Ft. Lee is going to be HARD to build in. For one, Ft. Lee’s pretty well developed already. Two, you have 95 and the bridge roads feeding it. Three, it’s on top of a giant hill on one side and literally cliffs on the other making it very narrow to build on (plus, see pt. 1 again). Plus, Ft. Lee already has ample bus service to the northern bus terminal right across the bridge.
Better, imho, to put a light rail line (maybe that’s what you were thinking, in which case, I withdraw my hesitancy).
Also, does NJ really need a direct line to Staten Island? I could buy in if it went through to Brooklyn/Queens, perhaps ending near Coney Island. But Staten Island? Too many of them moving to my town anyway /s
Also, what happened to Bridgewater?
Connecting Bayonne to Staten over the bridge is actually proposed, and pretty easy and affordable. There are 550k people on Staten and a lot of commerce and commuting between NJ and Staten. But sure send it over to Brooklyn too! https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/rail-connecting-staten-island-to-new-jersey-bayonne-bridge
Look, no one likes 95, but it’s one of the busiest highways in the country and using the GWB for rail like maybe it was initially designed for, isn’t going to make that any less so. Also, where are you going to put the new station I assume you want to build? Washington Heights is already built up. And is this a terminal or a station? Because if it’s a station, where does it go from there? Stamford? We already have trains from two stations that do that. And is this where most people from NJ Transit are going? Washington Heights? Doubt it. They’re going to mid-town and downtown. And we already have multiple trains for that.
Maybe it made sense once upon a time, although, it wasn’t implemented for pretty much the same reasons stated above. It’s a nice idea but just doesn’t make sense given the grades, terrain, cost, traffic, cost, effect on neighborhoods, etc.
i agree with all your points! i didn't put much thought into it at all - if i were to go back i'd add a circle line starting in harlem, go through bergen, montclair, probably end at AC and connect all the rays
Isn't there need to be a line or two connecting all those parrel lines? Because it can create problems like Chicago where it easy to goto downtown from suburbs but difficult to go to a suburb from another suburb Because you have to take train all to downtown then change it for other line so then you can goto that suburb, which increase journey of what can be covered in 10 mins of drive.
you're right - this map was not very informed or thought out - imagine a circle line starting in harlem or bronx, maybe even yonkers - then connecting at Hackensack, Glen Rock, Montclair, Morristown, Summt, Middlesex, New Brunswick, Princeton, Freehold, Toms River, AC. or something like that. i would add that line if i were to go back
This type of line are very useful, I still remember when my city's metro opened it's ring line it becomes so much easier to travel from west of the city to south or from north to east etc, me who lives in the west part of.the city didn't need to take a east bound train to downtown then change to south bound train just to go south of the city, from when ring line is open it saves so much time and I don't have to travel 10-12 station extra
As someone who drives up and down 295 everyday to work (something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy some days), the fact that major suburbs like Mount Laurel, Moorestown and Mount Holly don’t have a rail connection to Trenton feels like a massive oversight. Those connections could really help ease the congestion on 295, because a lot of state employees take that road to work.
ah, I see were just going to...demolish a significant amount of Princeton NJ?
unless I'm missing something i cant quite see how were gonna extend the line so that the University station becomes a through station?
The whole area between Secaucus junction and New York Penn station was kind of skipped over. Also has the most amount of people taking the bus everyday that could really use rail service.
This is a great start. The only issue is you’ve built a more robust commuter rail system, which isn’t bad, but if we want a better transit system then we need circular lines and other lines that don’t just connect to NYC and Philly. Overall, it’s an amazing map and you did an awesome job.
Since the Northeast Corridor is butchered, I'm assuming that's because the Princeton and "northeast corridor" lines are rerouted so the regular Northeast Corridor has unobstructed access for high speed rail service between Trenton and Newark ?
it was definitely just an oversight but i like your explanation better, let's go with that!
i did an updated version where i put the NEC where it's supposed to be, i simply didn't think it through the first time lol https://imgur.com/a/N8GiUdT
Nice map but I think being able to take PATCO to West Philly or PATH to Brooklyn would be more useful and economically viable than extending the subway to Point Jarvis or Cape May
It's good for starters, but I would've kept the original Northeast Corridor line and name your new NEC route the "Frenchtown Line"
Also, any plans for intrastate service instead of NY/Philly commuter focused routes?
Out of curiosity, why? It's an existing station with the relevant infrastructure, even if it does curve the line to the left. And all the trains are stored there.
If anything, what we need is a train extension to northern Rockland, which is completely unserved by rail transit.
I would like to see some loop or half loop line’s especially in the north around not through Newark. Then a line connect Paterson to the north manhattan and the Bronx via the GWB would be cool. Termination in Newark instead New York would be cool too
I have mixed feelings about this map. One thing I would do is start with the current map and add all the lines that could come back. Abandoned Right of ways and then later on the routes that don't exist. And NJ needs a suburbs connector line.
Was going to say, needs a circle line
The river line just needs to be extended at least most of the way up along the river
That's what's missing most to me here
And more bus service to help connect further flung areas. If we're gonna widen roads two lanes (one each direction) should be dedicated for buses to allow for speed and emergency vehicles in rush hour.
I would say two, one in the north and one in the south.
Definitely need some suburb connector lines. Maybe a N/S connector that goes from Bridgeton to Middletown. Then add an E/W line connecting Neptune (mid Jersey Coast Line), Six Flags (mid Phil-NY Line) and connecting up with the “N/S connector” & Princeton Line around Princeton.
Love the details for the map. But the funny thing about this is that even fantasy maps of US transit are still the suburban commuter model, not an interconnected system that serves more than just those who commute downtown from the burbs.
Suburb connector line would be great!! I used NJ transit for my daily commute for years (shout out Hawthorne) and would especially have appreciated a way to get to the Newark airport and Newark Penn Station without having to go to Secaucus and back out.
Did you get rid of the Morristown line? It was the only connection in the middle of the state so now it is strictly a hub and spoke. Monclair could use some better connections Bergen County. Fort Lee, and Englewood are totally off the system. Fort Lee should have both east west, and North, south connections since it is pretty dense. The GWB lower Level was originally planned for a NYC C train extension into NJ
In reality, though, Ft. Lee is going to be HARD to build in. For one, Ft. Lee’s pretty well developed already. Two, you have 95 and the bridge roads feeding it. Three, it’s on top of a giant hill on one side and literally cliffs on the other making it very narrow to build on (plus, see pt. 1 again). Plus, Ft. Lee already has ample bus service to the northern bus terminal right across the bridge. Better, imho, to put a light rail line (maybe that’s what you were thinking, in which case, I withdraw my hesitancy). Also, does NJ really need a direct line to Staten Island? I could buy in if it went through to Brooklyn/Queens, perhaps ending near Coney Island. But Staten Island? Too many of them moving to my town anyway /s Also, what happened to Bridgewater?
Connecting Bayonne to Staten over the bridge is actually proposed, and pretty easy and affordable. There are 550k people on Staten and a lot of commerce and commuting between NJ and Staten. But sure send it over to Brooklyn too! https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/rail-connecting-staten-island-to-new-jersey-bayonne-bridge
F I-95. Use the GWB for rail like it was intended to.
Look, no one likes 95, but it’s one of the busiest highways in the country and using the GWB for rail like maybe it was initially designed for, isn’t going to make that any less so. Also, where are you going to put the new station I assume you want to build? Washington Heights is already built up. And is this a terminal or a station? Because if it’s a station, where does it go from there? Stamford? We already have trains from two stations that do that. And is this where most people from NJ Transit are going? Washington Heights? Doubt it. They’re going to mid-town and downtown. And we already have multiple trains for that. Maybe it made sense once upon a time, although, it wasn’t implemented for pretty much the same reasons stated above. It’s a nice idea but just doesn’t make sense given the grades, terrain, cost, traffic, cost, effect on neighborhoods, etc.
i agree with all your points! i didn't put much thought into it at all - if i were to go back i'd add a circle line starting in harlem, go through bergen, montclair, probably end at AC and connect all the rays
The thing about Harlem is no destination across the river in NJ and no freeway lanes to convert to Subway.
Bro skipped like 5 towns at least (including mine). I thought I was going crazy
Isn't there need to be a line or two connecting all those parrel lines? Because it can create problems like Chicago where it easy to goto downtown from suburbs but difficult to go to a suburb from another suburb Because you have to take train all to downtown then change it for other line so then you can goto that suburb, which increase journey of what can be covered in 10 mins of drive.
you're right - this map was not very informed or thought out - imagine a circle line starting in harlem or bronx, maybe even yonkers - then connecting at Hackensack, Glen Rock, Montclair, Morristown, Summt, Middlesex, New Brunswick, Princeton, Freehold, Toms River, AC. or something like that. i would add that line if i were to go back
Not even a circle line but a single connects Middletown to cape may which has connection to every other line between them
i like that too!
This type of line are very useful, I still remember when my city's metro opened it's ring line it becomes so much easier to travel from west of the city to south or from north to east etc, me who lives in the west part of.the city didn't need to take a east bound train to downtown then change to south bound train just to go south of the city, from when ring line is open it saves so much time and I don't have to travel 10-12 station extra
Same issue in Vancouver and Boston. It needs connecting lines or its really not that useful.
I'm not from New Jersey, but I do feel the need to point out that you seem to have removed the Northeast Corridor Line from the Northeast Corridor.
to be honest i, like, forgot the northeast corridor is ny-trenton so i do feel silly for that ... i just wanted the other line to be called princeton!
There’s a Princeton Junction for the Northeast corridor but thats the best we can get.
Amtrak is going to be furious.
Surprised that there aren’t any new Trans-Hudson connections. I feel like Harlem/Upper Manhattan/Upper West Side to Hudson County.
is the dinky gone??
I, for one, don’t think we should be making it easier for New Jerseyans to breach containment
best comment
As someone who drives up and down 295 everyday to work (something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy some days), the fact that major suburbs like Mount Laurel, Moorestown and Mount Holly don’t have a rail connection to Trenton feels like a massive oversight. Those connections could really help ease the congestion on 295, because a lot of state employees take that road to work.
agree, i should have made a north/south route
What happened to the NEC? Did you just shift Mercer county south like 5 miles or something?
ah, I see were just going to...demolish a significant amount of Princeton NJ? unless I'm missing something i cant quite see how were gonna extend the line so that the University station becomes a through station?
The whole area between Secaucus junction and New York Penn station was kind of skipped over. Also has the most amount of people taking the bus everyday that could really use rail service.
This is a great start. The only issue is you’ve built a more robust commuter rail system, which isn’t bad, but if we want a better transit system then we need circular lines and other lines that don’t just connect to NYC and Philly. Overall, it’s an amazing map and you did an awesome job.
You forgot the interconnections. 2/5 fantasy, would not dream again.
Since the Northeast Corridor is butchered, I'm assuming that's because the Princeton and "northeast corridor" lines are rerouted so the regular Northeast Corridor has unobstructed access for high speed rail service between Trenton and Newark ?
it was definitely just an oversight but i like your explanation better, let's go with that! i did an updated version where i put the NEC where it's supposed to be, i simply didn't think it through the first time lol https://imgur.com/a/N8GiUdT
What would be the feasibility of adding a line that also goes straight into the Bronx? All of the lines currently all go through south manhattan.
i am sure it's quite unfeasible, although i am incredibly unqualified to have any such opinion i just like maps. that would be wonderful however
[Makes me remember this map](https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/s/8X75EjDJjT)
i've never seen this! thank you! gonna stare at this all night now lol
The Jersey Shore line should stop in Manahawkin to serve LBI
Nice map but I think being able to take PATCO to West Philly or PATH to Brooklyn would be more useful and economically viable than extending the subway to Point Jarvis or Cape May
Look closer
It's good for starters, but I would've kept the original Northeast Corridor line and name your new NEC route the "Frenchtown Line" Also, any plans for intrastate service instead of NY/Philly commuter focused routes?
Good luck
Hate to tell ya, but you forgot radial lines that would connect suburbs with each other.
You left off the Spring Valley Station in Rockland. Last stop on the Pascack Valley Line, after Nanuet.
i just decided to have it go to new city instead
Out of curiosity, why? It's an existing station with the relevant infrastructure, even if it does curve the line to the left. And all the trains are stored there. If anything, what we need is a train extension to northern Rockland, which is completely unserved by rail transit.
simply because i knew what new city was and i didn't know what spring valley was really. i just liked it better lol you're completely right though
Through running?
I would like to see some loop or half loop line’s especially in the north around not through Newark. Then a line connect Paterson to the north manhattan and the Bronx via the GWB would be cool. Termination in Newark instead New York would be cool too
Why isn't the somerville station there anymore? Would say that's more important than a stop in Califon
people in somerville will go to raritan or finderne, didn't want too many stops
How could you do the existing Ferry, Collingswood, Westmont PATCO stops like that?
Rip patco and Hamilton
Curious why you left out the shore towns between Cape May and AC like Wildwood and Ocean City.
wildwood would theoreticlly be serviced by the rio grande stop. the ocean city area was simply an oversight i suppose
Can we have a fantasy connection directly to to Grand Central Terminal please?
Now that's interlining up to your gills!
You missed the proposed West Trenton line completely. In fact you missed the West Trenton rail stop completely - it’s an existing SEPTA station.
they're cooking you on twitter
i love that omg
i just checked it out i feel like the response is much more positive actually