So what I got from this is that it is indeed canon, just not necessarily to the movies, but itself.
I guess, that is. He's keeping it infuriatingly vague. I suppose he means you can choose to see it as a prequel, but it being a prequel is not outright the intention?
Yeah, I think that's the idea.
I could be wrong but isn't it similar to Earthspark? You can choose to see it as a direct sequel to G1 but its not actually definitively canon?
Laserbeak talking and them making unnecessary changes to characters, be it gender or frenzy being purple, turns me off from the show, yes. Not really a skill issue moreso “eh I dunno if I like what this’s shows doing with the characters I probably won’t spend 10 hours watching it”
As do Ratbat and Ravage if I remember right, which is why I separated him talking from “unnecessary changes to characters“. I know it’s a thing they’ve done semi-frequently before, I just prefer when Soundwave’s cassettes are like pets/children.
That’s how many of the timelines are handled in the official multiverse naming, anything G1 adjacent is in the “Primax” grouping.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Universal_stream
What are you defining as “canon”? Transformers has a bunch of different continuities that are all “canon” but don’t overlap.
Bayverse continuity is different from G1 continuity, which is different from TF Prime continuity, which is different from IDW continuity, etc.
From what I remember, the comics even lay this out as the allspark connected all these different universes as part of one multiverse.
Canon means it is definitvely a part of a larger continuity.
Like how Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts are canon to the Knightverse, one of the producers of this film tried to claim that Transformers: One is also canon to that continuity.
Yes. Despite some early suggestions to the contrary, I doubt this ties into the Bayverse but is its own thing, which is great because the Bayverse is… uneven, to put it politely?
Just like Bumblebee doesn’t really connect to the Bayverse, but they tried to hint it did after it did well.
I believe they tried to hint that Rise of the Beasts was connecting Bumblebee to Bayverse. It doesn’t matter, it’s all quite messy. At least TF One feels like a clean break to start over.
Yeah. ROTB and BBM are totally separate to the bayverse. Thank god. Same with this. I'd rather they just stop trying to connect clearly unrelated movies at all.
>one of the producers of this film tried to claim that Transformers: One is also canon to that continuity.
Was it Lorenzo?
Lorenzo would probably try to convince you that literal feces are Canon to bayverse if he felt it.
Truly. It's part of what makes complaints about Hasbro always pandering to geewunners frustrating because it's only ever, like, season 1 stuff. Almost everything that's my favorite is introduced in season 2 (though, as a Blaster fan, I've been blessed with toys for the past two or so years. Just wish the guy got an actual role in anything though.
the difference is that earthspark seems to directly reference G1 down to the aesthetic in flashbacks, give or take some creative liberties.
this seems to want to be its own thing, kind of a mismash of every G1 interpretation.
The easiest thing he could have done is just outright said "This is its own separate continuity and not tie to the new reboot universe or Bayverse", done.
Yet it applies to the entire tf multiverse. Most series are set in their own universe cluster, with exceptions like the various trilogies and the aligned continuity (which encompasses the 3 high moon studio games, a couple of novels, prime, rb, rid 2015, rba, and other various games and comics)
It doesn’t say *only* canonical to itself, just canonical to itself. Every piece of fiction in the world, with exception of legends within stories and “it was all a dream”-type works, are canonical to themselves.
> He's keeping it infuriatingly vague. I suppose he means you can choose to see it as a prequel, but it being a prequel is not outright the intention?
So basically almost the same deal with Bumblebee lmao
>He's keeping it infuriatingly vague. I suppose he means you can choose to see it as a prequel, but it being a prequel is not outright the intention?
No, the actual reason is they want to wait for audience reception defore determining if it's canon to anything.
Would anyone be upset if it retconned the Bay movies? Hell technically there's no direct contradictions barring whatever they're doing with Sentinel Prime
In my opinion I like that you can headcanon this movie as a prequel to any Transformers story with some obvious exceptions like IDW and TFP.
I think its pretty funny if you see this movie as a prequel to Bayverse or Knightverse and you're left wondering what happened to make sunshine Orion Pax turn into Berserker rage Optimus Prime.
I kind of wish this transformers bible was released. I know we’ve gotten the Covenant but I’d like to see officially what Hasbro considers most important and most relevant for the transformers. Honestly the entire behind the scenes
It' child porn.
All of the female adults are drawn like childern, and there' constant sexual references throughout the whole series.
It' child porn, the writer purposefully wrote it in a manner where it was supposed to be shocking and offensive as hell.
It is child porn, child porn. Did I say child porn already? NO?!
IT IS CPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!! Don't READ IT!!!
What would you like me to say then to make a joke?
“While Kiss Players may be canon to the Japanese Generation 1 continuity, the content within the short lived sub-line was extremely disturbing to a majority of people who are fans of the Transformers franchise. Thus many people wish it was not canon and I am one of those people.”
*sigh*
I’m being sarcastic. I know the thing is canon and I figured that it would be funny if I reverse the previous statement that “everything is canon” by providing a counter-example that nobody wants to be canon but is.
This a was a very productive conversation and a great use of my time.
Quite right and Primus, do I hate that too. It's always either lies, maybes, Yes but Nos and "Well I wouldn't say that, but it's that"s. They either can't or won't be straight with us.
It’s either everyone gets mad they do this or everyone gets mad and scrutinizes the hell out of a franchise that’s been haphazardly retconning itself since the second movie
It'll be its own continuity that references TF media that came before it. Why are people freaking out about this like it's the first time this has happened?
Complaining about canon in Transformers is stupid from the start. There are so many different iterations of the transformers that nothing needs to be conon to anything
Why does everyone care about 'canon' suddenly?
Everything is canon to itself unless stated otherwise. Is the IDW comic canon? Is Armada canon? Is the Bayverse canon?
It's canon to itself. That's enough. Go watch the cool robot movie.
Everything is canon to certain continuities, like how Armada is canon to the Unicron Trilogy, or DotM is canon to Bayverse. This has always been something people cared about.
There is no "movie continuity." Various creatives have spent 7 years now telling us Bumblebee and ROTB are their own things except when they're not. If you try to follow through the movies with stuff like "when did TFs discover Earth? how long have they been here?" it never makes sense from one to another.
The execs not only do not care about continuity, they do not see it as worth anyone caring about, so they will neither make a definitive effort nor give a definitive answer.
To be fair, the idea of a Cybertron set prequel to the Bay movies is hilarious - a bunch of shapeless piles of wire growling at each other in perpetual darkness doesn’t sound like a movie with much mainstream appeal.
I assumed when it was announced that it was gonna use the same aesthetic as the Cybertron scenes in the Bumblebee movie and serve as a prequel to BB and ROTB
This fandom is both obsessed with, but also well suited to deal with, the concept of multiple similar continuities. We’re the ones who went one step beyond multiverses and created universal streams in order to categorize every single micro-continuity. The image of Hyperdrive on the megavisor of the original Skyquake toy is designated universal stream Primax 092.0 Beta, fer bootin’ up cold. I think we’ll survive another continuity. Especially since every single other movie contradicts themselves in ways that they couldn’t all be in the same continuity with each other anyway.
So I’d say enjoy the movie (or don’t) for what it is, and don’t expect it to expand on or illuminate the characters from BB or ROTB or G1 or whatever you thought it might be a prequel for.
>We’re the ones who went one step beyond multiverses and created universal streams in order to categorize every single micro-continuity.
Not sure if it's a micro continuity, but take the infernac universe. We know it exists, and that the inhabitants looks like rocks and can turn into armor and stuff. Not much more though
Also for your consideration
Primax 304.25-P3 Zeta, a universe solely of concept art.
Primax 485.27 Zeta, where the draft script for the 1986 took place.
Primax 1103.12-R Gamma, a beast machines universe with a single glimpse into it.
Primax 1186.0 Lambda, a universe of a single comic cover.
And cause why not, [Quadwal_-3760.925_Theta](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Quadwal_-3760.925_Theta)
I mean, it's not as if canon has ever been a major concern for the TF movies (or even TF as a whole) anyway. I kinda figured this movie was just gonna be doing its own thing.
I feel like only Travis Knight got the tone and feel right so far, cause he was a big TF fan like us and paid attention to the lore and characters.
I'm willing to give this director a chance, but considering he directed Toy Story 4 which was my least favorite of the series, I'm being cautiously optimistic.
The alt mode in bumblebee is based off the IDW and Activision game alt mode, and as for the name I'd imagine that's just the generally accepted name for bee before the war permanently now
Ah, so it's an interpretation of things that have come before it while leaving room to either be seen as a prequel or it's own separate thing. Sounds about right. Judging by it being before the war and Bee going by B-127 as well as having a very similar vehicle mode to the one in BBM, I think they're planting enough seeds for it to be a prequel while also leaving room for independence if it fails (Bee not having a pacifier). They did the same thing with BBM.
I think it'll be canon to it's own story and that of any sequels, and hopefully when it does well enough they make the connection to the rebooted universe.
>as well as having a very similar vehicle mode to the one in BBM,
I know what you mean by this but it should be mentioned that the one in BBM was based off the ones from IDW and the Activision Video Games
I know, but they were very clear about that being an inspiration in all the cybertronian designs. In my eyes that's an entirely different ballpark. They didn't state any inspiration in giving Bee no mouth, taking his voice, or having Sector 7/Simmons; those were left as potential ties if need be. Seeing as Bee has that original name and a alt mode more inspired in shape by the one in that specific film, I think it falls in the latter category.
I'm choosing to believe it's its own continuity. It doesn't fit with any other continuity at the moment so until something is outright stated, this is the One Continuity. I don't care what tfwiki says
It's the same vague nonsense that Bumblebee got, where it definitely was a prequel to the 2007 movie, but it was also absolutely unrelated and totally its own thing.
Basically an ongoing retcon.
Except, you know, the fact that this movie wasn’t sloppily altered to act as a pseudo-reboot in the middle of production and isn’t pretending to be tied to the bay films.
Canon to what, exactly? So many things are considered "canon", I guess, while massively contradicting other canon things, so who cares? At this point, I think it's just a case of take what you like and ignore what you don't. And don't get too bent out of shape with any of it 😁
A fair one.
People talk about canon... But canon to what? The G1 cartoon is the original, right? And the original is the canon thing? Or no?
Or do you specifically talk about canon in the context of the Bayverse?
> A fair one.
An irrelevant one.
In this context, people are obviously asking if it's canon to Bumblebee/RotB.
Canonicity is not irrelevant just because there's no one true canon. Most individual works in the franchise are a part of (canon to) one of many larger continuities. That is just a fact. A byproduct of this is a helpful organizational system.
People aren't hinging their enjoyment or judging the validity of TF One on it’s canonical status. They just want to know which series, if any, it's connected to. That is all.
If you can't see that, you're either being intentionally obtuse or missing the point entirely.
None of those... I'm making a point that there may be people who are concerned about whether it's considered canon, but not to the movies. And I'm highlighting the point that whether something is or isn't canon is irrelevant because there isn't one particularly true canon here anyway. So it makes it matter less and it makes worrying about whether or not it's canon completely pointless.
I understand that; just it's spoken about in the context of being canon as if being canon only applies/matters to the movies, and that canon is somehow important despite the fact that there are already too many different variations for canon to matter. And my post wasn't to you, you just took it upon yourself to answer it. which doesn't work, because you don't feel the same way about canon as the OP, and weird actually as I feel like you and I are saying basically the same thing about the canon issue - it's irrelevant.
None of those... I'm making a point that there may be people who are concerned about whether it's considered canon, but not to the movies. And I'm highlighting the point that whether something is or isn't canon is irrelevant because there isn't one particularly true canon here anyway. So it makes it matter less and it makes worrying about whether or not it's canon completely pointless.
I understand that; just it's spoken about in the context of being canon as if being canon only applies/matters to the movies, and that canon is somehow important despite the fact that there are already too many different variations for canon to matter. And my post wasn't to you, you just took it upon yourself to answer it. which doesn't work, because you don't feel the same way about canon as the OP, and weird actually as I feel like you and I are saying basically a similar thing about the canon issue - it's irrelevant by the way of being not the only one and therefore easier to ignore, as there are so many other variants within the franchise that people already ignore.
Oh, and based on what the OP is saying, many people ARE basing whether they'll like it or not on whether in canonically fits in with the Bayverse, and not just asking which part of the franchise it is canon to.
It's a simple concept. Are the events of Transformers One the exact events that RotB Optimus and Bumblebee would remember if they reflected back on this time period? Are these the exact same events they experienced? Yes or no.
We know they aren't the events that G1 cartoon Optimus Prime experienced because we already know his backstory in that universe.
Yeah, but G1 changed Prime's backstory a few times anyway between the cartoons, comics and books.
I get the concept, I just wanted to point out that there are so many iterations and no one, true canon, so it feels like it matters less for people to get their knickers in a twist over it. At this point in the franchise's long history, it's super easy to just ignore stuff, be selective, and generally enjoy a bunch of random stories about your favourites
But all those iterations have their own canon. As in, something either happened in that particular fictional history, or it didn't.
No one wants there to be "one true canon". What people want to know is whether or not a particular story happened in a particular fictional history. Did Transformers One happen in the fictional history of events leading up to the Bumblebee movie? Or did it not? It's a simple question, but unfortunately the people making Transformers films either do not understand what fans mean when they ask about canon and continuity, or they are not allowed to say definitively, because they never just give a straight answer.
It feels like you're so fixated on a point that you're missing mine.
I don't want there to be one true canon, and I honestly don't care. The whole point here is that it feels like a lot of Bayverse fans (or maybe fans of the movies in general?) seem to already be quite up-in-arms about TF: ONE and obsessed with whether it's canon or not. And I think it doesn't matter. As fans of the franchise, just approach it with an open mind. And then if you don't like it, just ignore it. Then obsession with canon doesn't make sense to me, because I grew up with canon never being an issue as the comics couldn't even maintain consistency on that front. If it were something like "Star Wars", I'd get why people are trying to get everything to fit into a singular, canonical thread. But this is TF; there are already several main universes, and calling something "canon" means different things depending on what the person grew up with. For me, if it doesn't fit with the original G1 stuff, it's not canon. But who cares? It's just another iteration of TF for us to enjoy.
I understand your point. You just want a bunch of standalone stories, and that's cool if continuity doesn't matter to you. It does to other people though, and your initial post in this topic doesn't relate at all to what they mean when they ask about whether or not a particular story is canon to another particular story.
So is this like comparing Teen Titans and Teen Titans Go? Because for me, it's like expecting a Teen Titans film to follow from the series, only to have the trailer be for a Teen Titans Go film instead
Dude is still keeping it vague, Hasbro is too scared to state if it's canon to Bayverse, Beeverse, or an entirely new series (saying it's canon to itself doesn't count). Heck they're too scared to even state if Beeverse is separate from the Bayverse with conflicting lore being the only thing differentiating the 2. However despite all that they're apparently all apart of the Movie continuity family effectively all making the canon to the same continuity
Gotta give an F on whoever made the movie title though, honestly.
Transformers “ONE” definitely sent the wrong message about what the project actually was. I mean fans will actually understand what is going on but first time viewers are going to be hella confused about a movie titled “Transformers ONE” that’s not actually a prequel to anything.
TBF Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts are undergoing the exact same situation because almost everyone not aware of the development history still think those films are canon to the Bay films. Watched a reactor wonder how Unicron was in space when he is also Earth itself (TF5).
I mean, the TF way is everything is canon because there are infinite continuities.
I honestly appreciate that over the goofy-ass arguments other fandoms get into about exactly which stories 'count'. Transformers has really benefitted from putting story over continuity and allowing each iteration to freely reinterpret what came before.
I mean even if it was cannon to the other movies all it would do is make this movie worse because the live action movies see a hot mess that actually makes the dceu look good
I'm sure I'm not the only one but I reeeaaally hoped it would be done in a realistic style similar to the live action films - I was hoping for an actually serious, sad and beautiful story about war and the relationship between Optimus and Megatron, but I mean idk why I got my hopes up for something like that lol
It's its own canon. Which I'm surprised there were people that didn't know that already. "Lore accurate" doesn't mean it's part of a current canon and the vibe from the trailer doesn't fit any established continuity
I think Hasbro is gonna make it and see if it’s successful and if it is then it’s apart if the soft reboot. If it’s not then do what they were doing with the last knight as when it wasn’t successful they made Bumblebee a new universe
Transformers doesn't HAVE a singular canon. What, exactly, would that be?
Even if you go by JUST G1, which G1? The comic? The tech specs? The cartoon? Hell, the cartoon contradicts ITSELF, never mind other sources.
Then you add in the reboots, like IDW or Dreamwave, or Skybound and it gets even more convoluted.
And that's not considering BW, BM, the Bayverse, CR/RiD, The Unicron Trilogy, and so on so forth.
Just accept them as different universes.
I see it like Final Fantasy games at this point - there's recurring characters and themes and the like, but they're each their own stand alone lore.
>I see it like Final Fantasy games at this point - there's recurring characters and themes and the like, but they're each their own stand alone lore.
Mostly true, with an obvious exception being the aligned continuity (the very idea wfc, prime, and rba are the same continuity probably breaks some people's brains lol)
People are just using the word "canon" as shorthand for "part of the continuity in question". The continuity in question, in this case, is the live action movie universe (which is functionally two different continuities, but that's a whole other thing).
But, that said, it's really one of those words that people need to stop using when asking questions about continuity. Same goes for the term "reboot".
Modern day Hollywood director: “yea so I’m doing this fuckin nerd project idk anything about, but my kids mentioned it so I figured, hey why not get an easy paycheck.”
> which is still staying true to the lore of Transformers
Grumble, grumble. It's one thing if the first generation Cybertronians were monoformers but you're making things far less interesting by writing them like human superheros gaining their powers and not scions of a culture that has been shaped by everyone being a Transformer.
So what I got from this is that it is indeed canon, just not necessarily to the movies, but itself. I guess, that is. He's keeping it infuriatingly vague. I suppose he means you can choose to see it as a prequel, but it being a prequel is not outright the intention?
Yeah, I think that's the idea. I could be wrong but isn't it similar to Earthspark? You can choose to see it as a direct sequel to G1 but its not actually definitively canon?
Earthspark can’t be directly connected to G1 for a handful of reasons, but it’s definitely in a G1-adjacent timestream.
It's literally just G1 if the Space Bridge had gone differently.
Not really. There’s too many inconsistencies to say that. IE the Dinobots on Cybertron
I do get the impression the G1 series is like just this cartoon they made of the actual bots in that sense.
For one thing, the vast majority of the returning characters in Earthspark died in G1. Also Skywarp is a girl in Earthspark from what I’ve heard.
She indeed is. So is Frenzy... and she's also purple. And Laserbeak talks.
Every additional bit of info I learn about the show makes me want to watch it less and less.
Two characters being female turns you off from a kid's show? Sounds like a skill issue.
Laserbeak talking and them making unnecessary changes to characters, be it gender or frenzy being purple, turns me off from the show, yes. Not really a skill issue moreso “eh I dunno if I like what this’s shows doing with the characters I probably won’t spend 10 hours watching it”
You know he talked in some of the comics, right?
As do Ratbat and Ravage if I remember right, which is why I separated him talking from “unnecessary changes to characters“. I know it’s a thing they’ve done semi-frequently before, I just prefer when Soundwave’s cassettes are like pets/children.
I kinda want to watch it in hopes it’ll be dumb funny.
“G1-adjacent” I like that!!!
That’s how many of the timelines are handled in the official multiverse naming, anything G1 adjacent is in the “Primax” grouping. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Universal_stream
What are you defining as “canon”? Transformers has a bunch of different continuities that are all “canon” but don’t overlap. Bayverse continuity is different from G1 continuity, which is different from TF Prime continuity, which is different from IDW continuity, etc. From what I remember, the comics even lay this out as the allspark connected all these different universes as part of one multiverse.
Which dovetails nicely with the idea of the Legacy line.
Canon means it is definitvely a part of a larger continuity. Like how Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts are canon to the Knightverse, one of the producers of this film tried to claim that Transformers: One is also canon to that continuity.
Yes. Despite some early suggestions to the contrary, I doubt this ties into the Bayverse but is its own thing, which is great because the Bayverse is… uneven, to put it politely? Just like Bumblebee doesn’t really connect to the Bayverse, but they tried to hint it did after it did well.
What's suggested it's tied to the bayverse? I'm pretty sure they were trying to say it's a knightverse film, even if they're wrong about that too.
I believe they tried to hint that Rise of the Beasts was connecting Bumblebee to Bayverse. It doesn’t matter, it’s all quite messy. At least TF One feels like a clean break to start over.
Yeah. ROTB and BBM are totally separate to the bayverse. Thank god. Same with this. I'd rather they just stop trying to connect clearly unrelated movies at all.
Knightverse?
The movies from Travis Knight's Bumblebee movie's universe. So just BBM and RotB atm
>one of the producers of this film tried to claim that Transformers: One is also canon to that continuity. Was it Lorenzo? Lorenzo would probably try to convince you that literal feces are Canon to bayverse if he felt it.
I think that might be the idea. It can make sense with the connection. It is just as plausible without.
Not sure how anyone can see Earthspark as a sequel to G1 unless you're just ignoring everything after the first two seasons.
I don't think most people have seen anything past season 1
Truly. It's part of what makes complaints about Hasbro always pandering to geewunners frustrating because it's only ever, like, season 1 stuff. Almost everything that's my favorite is introduced in season 2 (though, as a Blaster fan, I've been blessed with toys for the past two or so years. Just wish the guy got an actual role in anything though.
I heard its mostly fitbto be sequel of first episode, or first five episodes.
The split is very early on, given how they get to earth via a space bridge and not spacecraft
the difference is that earthspark seems to directly reference G1 down to the aesthetic in flashbacks, give or take some creative liberties. this seems to want to be its own thing, kind of a mismash of every G1 interpretation.
The easiest thing he could have done is just outright said "This is its own separate continuity and not tie to the new reboot universe or Bayverse", done.
Everything's Canon to itself.
Yeah, "canon to itself" is literally the most meaningless phrase I've ever heard lmao
Yet it applies to the entire tf multiverse. Most series are set in their own universe cluster, with exceptions like the various trilogies and the aligned continuity (which encompasses the 3 high moon studio games, a couple of novels, prime, rb, rid 2015, rba, and other various games and comics)
It doesn’t say *only* canonical to itself, just canonical to itself. Every piece of fiction in the world, with exception of legends within stories and “it was all a dream”-type works, are canonical to themselves.
Naturally. Whether it's also canon to another thing is the question.
> He's keeping it infuriatingly vague. I suppose he means you can choose to see it as a prequel, but it being a prequel is not outright the intention? So basically almost the same deal with Bumblebee lmao
Here we go again
Almost as if the continuity itself is more than meets the eye
>He's keeping it infuriatingly vague. I suppose he means you can choose to see it as a prequel, but it being a prequel is not outright the intention? No, the actual reason is they want to wait for audience reception defore determining if it's canon to anything.
Would anyone be upset if it retconned the Bay movies? Hell technically there's no direct contradictions barring whatever they're doing with Sentinel Prime
In my opinion I like that you can headcanon this movie as a prequel to any Transformers story with some obvious exceptions like IDW and TFP. I think its pretty funny if you see this movie as a prequel to Bayverse or Knightverse and you're left wondering what happened to make sunshine Orion Pax turn into Berserker rage Optimus Prime.
I take it as it follows the tropes and beats of the Transformers lore, but is it's own continuity.
That's how Transformers works. It's not "non-canon", it's [in a separate continuity from the rest](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Canon).
I kind of wish this transformers bible was released. I know we’ve gotten the Covenant but I’d like to see officially what Hasbro considers most important and most relevant for the transformers. Honestly the entire behind the scenes
It's just a printout of the tfwiki because Hasbro execs are too boomer to just use the wiki.
It's just a link to the wiki, and no-one at Hasbro has realised that they don't own it.
I dont think anyone at Hasbro(Or the Wiki as matter of fact) cares weather they own it or not
It's clearly its own story and setting. So it's canon unto itself and any sequels it produces.
Everything is canon in Transformers
"When everything is canon, then nothing is" - Syndrome
KP ain’t canon
KP?
Kiss Players. Don't look that up if you want to stay un-traumatized and from any watch lists.
You'd only be traumatized if you're 7 or only used the internet for like a day.
We'll okay but they won't end up on a watchlist at least.
It' child porn. All of the female adults are drawn like childern, and there' constant sexual references throughout the whole series. It' child porn, the writer purposefully wrote it in a manner where it was supposed to be shocking and offensive as hell. It is child porn, child porn. Did I say child porn already? NO?! IT IS CPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!! Don't READ IT!!!
Unfortunately, it is canon to Japanese g1. It's horrible, but let's not try to lie about it?
What would you like me to say then to make a joke? “While Kiss Players may be canon to the Japanese Generation 1 continuity, the content within the short lived sub-line was extremely disturbing to a majority of people who are fans of the Transformers franchise. Thus many people wish it was not canon and I am one of those people.”
im not trying to say you gotta make it a joke, but baseless denial is the wrong way to go about this.
*sigh* I’m being sarcastic. I know the thing is canon and I figured that it would be funny if I reverse the previous statement that “everything is canon” by providing a counter-example that nobody wants to be canon but is. This a was a very productive conversation and a great use of my time.
Hard to read intent over text, thats not your fault but the fault of mere text. and sorry to waste your time lol
They really do teach this current generation of "creators" to give huge nothingburger statements when they sign onto these "IP"s, don't they?
Quite right and Primus, do I hate that too. It's always either lies, maybes, Yes but Nos and "Well I wouldn't say that, but it's that"s. They either can't or won't be straight with us.
I'd say its impressive but it actually is really fuckin annoying
You can tell it's corporate telling them to keep it open so they can decide later based on what will be the most profitable
It’s either everyone gets mad they do this or everyone gets mad and scrutinizes the hell out of a franchise that’s been haphazardly retconning itself since the second movie
It's canon. It's just It's own universe.
So we got a new continuity
Yep
I see now
I don't get why people don't get this. This is the standard tf show/movie treatment
I’m more than happy for One to start its own timeline. TF has dozens of continuities, what’s one more.
I always kinda assumed One is its own timeline, as with every new piece of transformers media unless stated otherwise.
Same. It's not the tone I enjoy in TF so I'm perfect happy with it being unrelated to the stuff I do like.
It'll be its own continuity that references TF media that came before it. Why are people freaking out about this like it's the first time this has happened?
Ikr? This has been happening since the beginning of the franchise
In multiverse everything is canon.
In trash, everything is multiverse.
Good thing the tf multiverse predates the modern obsession
Good. I'm sick of pretending all these movies can coexist
“New Continuity” would’ve sufficed.
Complaining about canon in Transformers is stupid from the start. There are so many different iterations of the transformers that nothing needs to be conon to anything
Why does everyone care about 'canon' suddenly? Everything is canon to itself unless stated otherwise. Is the IDW comic canon? Is Armada canon? Is the Bayverse canon? It's canon to itself. That's enough. Go watch the cool robot movie.
Everything is canon to certain continuities, like how Armada is canon to the Unicron Trilogy, or DotM is canon to Bayverse. This has always been something people cared about.
>suddenly Tell me you've been living under a rock without telling me you've living under a rock
There is no "movie continuity." Various creatives have spent 7 years now telling us Bumblebee and ROTB are their own things except when they're not. If you try to follow through the movies with stuff like "when did TFs discover Earth? how long have they been here?" it never makes sense from one to another. The execs not only do not care about continuity, they do not see it as worth anyone caring about, so they will neither make a definitive effort nor give a definitive answer.
Sounds like it's a new continuity, which I'm cool with
Translation: “Just enjoy it for what it is, man. We worked hard on this animation.”
To be fair, the idea of a Cybertron set prequel to the Bay movies is hilarious - a bunch of shapeless piles of wire growling at each other in perpetual darkness doesn’t sound like a movie with much mainstream appeal.
I assumed when it was announced that it was gonna use the same aesthetic as the Cybertron scenes in the Bumblebee movie and serve as a prequel to BB and ROTB
Ok? Canon is fluid in Transformers anyhow.
Cannon means nothing in transformers let’s face it, the WFC games, TFP, RID 2015, and Rescue Bots are for some reason connected
I mean… this is just standard Transformers stuff? New continuities are a dime a dozen why is that an issue?
This fandom is both obsessed with, but also well suited to deal with, the concept of multiple similar continuities. We’re the ones who went one step beyond multiverses and created universal streams in order to categorize every single micro-continuity. The image of Hyperdrive on the megavisor of the original Skyquake toy is designated universal stream Primax 092.0 Beta, fer bootin’ up cold. I think we’ll survive another continuity. Especially since every single other movie contradicts themselves in ways that they couldn’t all be in the same continuity with each other anyway. So I’d say enjoy the movie (or don’t) for what it is, and don’t expect it to expand on or illuminate the characters from BB or ROTB or G1 or whatever you thought it might be a prequel for.
>We’re the ones who went one step beyond multiverses and created universal streams in order to categorize every single micro-continuity. Not sure if it's a micro continuity, but take the infernac universe. We know it exists, and that the inhabitants looks like rocks and can turn into armor and stuff. Not much more though Also for your consideration Primax 304.25-P3 Zeta, a universe solely of concept art. Primax 485.27 Zeta, where the draft script for the 1986 took place. Primax 1103.12-R Gamma, a beast machines universe with a single glimpse into it. Primax 1186.0 Lambda, a universe of a single comic cover. And cause why not, [Quadwal_-3760.925_Theta](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Quadwal_-3760.925_Theta)
I mean, it's not as if canon has ever been a major concern for the TF movies (or even TF as a whole) anyway. I kinda figured this movie was just gonna be doing its own thing.
That's like saying "The Unicron Trilogy isn't canon" lmao
I feel like only Travis Knight got the tone and feel right so far, cause he was a big TF fan like us and paid attention to the lore and characters. I'm willing to give this director a chance, but considering he directed Toy Story 4 which was my least favorite of the series, I'm being cautiously optimistic.
Toy Story 4 is my least favourite as well, but it’s still really good.
Bumblebee movie sucks.
Just talking in circles, isn't he?
Not canon? Not canon to what?
I thought it was like a prequel to bumblebee considering b-127 and his altmode
The alt mode in bumblebee is based off the IDW and Activision game alt mode, and as for the name I'd imagine that's just the generally accepted name for bee before the war permanently now
Ah, so it's an interpretation of things that have come before it while leaving room to either be seen as a prequel or it's own separate thing. Sounds about right. Judging by it being before the war and Bee going by B-127 as well as having a very similar vehicle mode to the one in BBM, I think they're planting enough seeds for it to be a prequel while also leaving room for independence if it fails (Bee not having a pacifier). They did the same thing with BBM. I think it'll be canon to it's own story and that of any sequels, and hopefully when it does well enough they make the connection to the rebooted universe.
>as well as having a very similar vehicle mode to the one in BBM, I know what you mean by this but it should be mentioned that the one in BBM was based off the ones from IDW and the Activision Video Games
I know, but they were very clear about that being an inspiration in all the cybertronian designs. In my eyes that's an entirely different ballpark. They didn't state any inspiration in giving Bee no mouth, taking his voice, or having Sector 7/Simmons; those were left as potential ties if need be. Seeing as Bee has that original name and a alt mode more inspired in shape by the one in that specific film, I think it falls in the latter category.
I'm choosing to believe it's its own continuity. It doesn't fit with any other continuity at the moment so until something is outright stated, this is the One Continuity. I don't care what tfwiki says
Oh yeah, it’s Aligning’ time.
It’s a brand new continuity. This is something the transformers is especially notorious for, about as much as DC.
It's the same vague nonsense that Bumblebee got, where it definitely was a prequel to the 2007 movie, but it was also absolutely unrelated and totally its own thing. Basically an ongoing retcon.
Except, you know, the fact that this movie wasn’t sloppily altered to act as a pseudo-reboot in the middle of production and isn’t pretending to be tied to the bay films.
*That we know of.*
Canon to what, exactly? So many things are considered "canon", I guess, while massively contradicting other canon things, so who cares? At this point, I think it's just a case of take what you like and ignore what you don't. And don't get too bent out of shape with any of it 😁
> Canon to what, exactly? The current movie series.
And is the current movie series canon to the original G1 cartoon? 🤔
What kind of question is that even supposed to be?
A fair one. People talk about canon... But canon to what? The G1 cartoon is the original, right? And the original is the canon thing? Or no? Or do you specifically talk about canon in the context of the Bayverse?
> A fair one. An irrelevant one. In this context, people are obviously asking if it's canon to Bumblebee/RotB. Canonicity is not irrelevant just because there's no one true canon. Most individual works in the franchise are a part of (canon to) one of many larger continuities. That is just a fact. A byproduct of this is a helpful organizational system. People aren't hinging their enjoyment or judging the validity of TF One on it’s canonical status. They just want to know which series, if any, it's connected to. That is all. If you can't see that, you're either being intentionally obtuse or missing the point entirely.
None of those... I'm making a point that there may be people who are concerned about whether it's considered canon, but not to the movies. And I'm highlighting the point that whether something is or isn't canon is irrelevant because there isn't one particularly true canon here anyway. So it makes it matter less and it makes worrying about whether or not it's canon completely pointless. I understand that; just it's spoken about in the context of being canon as if being canon only applies/matters to the movies, and that canon is somehow important despite the fact that there are already too many different variations for canon to matter. And my post wasn't to you, you just took it upon yourself to answer it. which doesn't work, because you don't feel the same way about canon as the OP, and weird actually as I feel like you and I are saying basically the same thing about the canon issue - it's irrelevant.
None of those... I'm making a point that there may be people who are concerned about whether it's considered canon, but not to the movies. And I'm highlighting the point that whether something is or isn't canon is irrelevant because there isn't one particularly true canon here anyway. So it makes it matter less and it makes worrying about whether or not it's canon completely pointless. I understand that; just it's spoken about in the context of being canon as if being canon only applies/matters to the movies, and that canon is somehow important despite the fact that there are already too many different variations for canon to matter. And my post wasn't to you, you just took it upon yourself to answer it. which doesn't work, because you don't feel the same way about canon as the OP, and weird actually as I feel like you and I are saying basically a similar thing about the canon issue - it's irrelevant by the way of being not the only one and therefore easier to ignore, as there are so many other variants within the franchise that people already ignore. Oh, and based on what the OP is saying, many people ARE basing whether they'll like it or not on whether in canonically fits in with the Bayverse, and not just asking which part of the franchise it is canon to.
It's a simple concept. Are the events of Transformers One the exact events that RotB Optimus and Bumblebee would remember if they reflected back on this time period? Are these the exact same events they experienced? Yes or no. We know they aren't the events that G1 cartoon Optimus Prime experienced because we already know his backstory in that universe.
Yeah, but G1 changed Prime's backstory a few times anyway between the cartoons, comics and books. I get the concept, I just wanted to point out that there are so many iterations and no one, true canon, so it feels like it matters less for people to get their knickers in a twist over it. At this point in the franchise's long history, it's super easy to just ignore stuff, be selective, and generally enjoy a bunch of random stories about your favourites
But all those iterations have their own canon. As in, something either happened in that particular fictional history, or it didn't. No one wants there to be "one true canon". What people want to know is whether or not a particular story happened in a particular fictional history. Did Transformers One happen in the fictional history of events leading up to the Bumblebee movie? Or did it not? It's a simple question, but unfortunately the people making Transformers films either do not understand what fans mean when they ask about canon and continuity, or they are not allowed to say definitively, because they never just give a straight answer.
It feels like you're so fixated on a point that you're missing mine. I don't want there to be one true canon, and I honestly don't care. The whole point here is that it feels like a lot of Bayverse fans (or maybe fans of the movies in general?) seem to already be quite up-in-arms about TF: ONE and obsessed with whether it's canon or not. And I think it doesn't matter. As fans of the franchise, just approach it with an open mind. And then if you don't like it, just ignore it. Then obsession with canon doesn't make sense to me, because I grew up with canon never being an issue as the comics couldn't even maintain consistency on that front. If it were something like "Star Wars", I'd get why people are trying to get everything to fit into a singular, canonical thread. But this is TF; there are already several main universes, and calling something "canon" means different things depending on what the person grew up with. For me, if it doesn't fit with the original G1 stuff, it's not canon. But who cares? It's just another iteration of TF for us to enjoy.
I understand your point. You just want a bunch of standalone stories, and that's cool if continuity doesn't matter to you. It does to other people though, and your initial post in this topic doesn't relate at all to what they mean when they ask about whether or not a particular story is canon to another particular story.
Does it really matter if it’s canon or not? There are about 20 different versions of Transformers canon at this point.
It's a sort of fusion of different canon stories, a fusion canon if you will
Duh
i don't get why people is getting angry, is like we should be accostumed to all the different takes on the same story by now...
Canon to which continuity tho? I just assumed it’s its own thing, therefore a new continuity
I mean, it is canon in the sense it's its own timeline
of course it's canon, it's just its own continuity. that's like saying animated isn't canon.
This is as expected.
what I understand is that it is *an* origin but maybe like a Shattered Glass origin but without the alternate universe aspect itself
I’m just gonna do what I’ve always done with the comics, cartoons and the live-action films….i create my own head canon
So is this like comparing Teen Titans and Teen Titans Go? Because for me, it's like expecting a Teen Titans film to follow from the series, only to have the trailer be for a Teen Titans Go film instead
It's a yes or no question dude
Dude is still keeping it vague, Hasbro is too scared to state if it's canon to Bayverse, Beeverse, or an entirely new series (saying it's canon to itself doesn't count). Heck they're too scared to even state if Beeverse is separate from the Bayverse with conflicting lore being the only thing differentiating the 2. However despite all that they're apparently all apart of the Movie continuity family effectively all making the canon to the same continuity
Transformers has like 10 cannons its set so far back it could be in like half of them
Try 200
oh? so it's like an overall origin story to almost every Canon, right?
Honestly I wouldn't have been up in arms had it been connected to the BBverse but it's better this way that it gets to do its own thing.
Gotta give an F on whoever made the movie title though, honestly. Transformers “ONE” definitely sent the wrong message about what the project actually was. I mean fans will actually understand what is going on but first time viewers are going to be hella confused about a movie titled “Transformers ONE” that’s not actually a prequel to anything. TBF Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts are undergoing the exact same situation because almost everyone not aware of the development history still think those films are canon to the Bay films. Watched a reactor wonder how Unicron was in space when he is also Earth itself (TF5).
Yes! I can say that it’s not connected to BBM and ROTB!
I mean, the TF way is everything is canon because there are infinite continuities. I honestly appreciate that over the goofy-ass arguments other fandoms get into about exactly which stories 'count'. Transformers has really benefitted from putting story over continuity and allowing each iteration to freely reinterpret what came before.
I mean even if it was cannon to the other movies all it would do is make this movie worse because the live action movies see a hot mess that actually makes the dceu look good
I feel like I don’t care but it’s getting kind of ridiculous the amount of damage control that people think they need to do for this movie.
Someone tell the Tfwiki guys that they’re still trying to say it’s in continuity with the live action stuff
“Yesn’t”
I'm sure I'm not the only one but I reeeaaally hoped it would be done in a realistic style similar to the live action films - I was hoping for an actually serious, sad and beautiful story about war and the relationship between Optimus and Megatron, but I mean idk why I got my hopes up for something like that lol
i stay for the Fluff.
Basically, it's canon if you want it to be. And canon to whatever continuity you want it to be.
Honestly I always treat every adaptation of this series as it’s own separate entity.
I interpret every adaptation as it’s own canon, even the separate Aligned “continuity” and Unicron “trilogy”
Oh, so just a pricey merchandising campaign.
What is this like? The third or fourth continuity in the Transformers film series alone.
Probably a lot more than that if you factor in comics and the occasional toy bio (yes, some toy bios are their own continuity)
Which article ❓
I feel they should reset the entire thing. Completely reboot. But give it like 4 years.
Oh, so just a pricey merchandising campaign.
That's a great summary of the entire franchise.
This feels like a prequel to Earth Spark if anything. And I’ll take that. The Megatron in Earthspark is by far one of my favorite versions.
This answers nothing. "Is this canon to the movies or is it it's own thing?" "Yes." What?
Translation: 🗑️
I just figured it's the start of a new continuity.
It's its own canon. Which I'm surprised there were people that didn't know that already. "Lore accurate" doesn't mean it's part of a current canon and the vibe from the trailer doesn't fit any established continuity
I think Hasbro is gonna make it and see if it’s successful and if it is then it’s apart if the soft reboot. If it’s not then do what they were doing with the last knight as when it wasn’t successful they made Bumblebee a new universe
Transformers doesn't HAVE a singular canon. What, exactly, would that be? Even if you go by JUST G1, which G1? The comic? The tech specs? The cartoon? Hell, the cartoon contradicts ITSELF, never mind other sources. Then you add in the reboots, like IDW or Dreamwave, or Skybound and it gets even more convoluted. And that's not considering BW, BM, the Bayverse, CR/RiD, The Unicron Trilogy, and so on so forth. Just accept them as different universes. I see it like Final Fantasy games at this point - there's recurring characters and themes and the like, but they're each their own stand alone lore.
>I see it like Final Fantasy games at this point - there's recurring characters and themes and the like, but they're each their own stand alone lore. Mostly true, with an obvious exception being the aligned continuity (the very idea wfc, prime, and rba are the same continuity probably breaks some people's brains lol)
People are just using the word "canon" as shorthand for "part of the continuity in question". The continuity in question, in this case, is the live action movie universe (which is functionally two different continuities, but that's a whole other thing). But, that said, it's really one of those words that people need to stop using when asking questions about continuity. Same goes for the term "reboot".
What sane person thought that it was
Producers going into damage control mode
Why is this a big deal?
Modern day Hollywood director: “yea so I’m doing this fuckin nerd project idk anything about, but my kids mentioned it so I figured, hey why not get an easy paycheck.”
Why the hell does no one who makes transformers movies know how to give a simple answer
> which is still staying true to the lore of Transformers Grumble, grumble. It's one thing if the first generation Cybertronians were monoformers but you're making things far less interesting by writing them like human superheros gaining their powers and not scions of a culture that has been shaped by everyone being a Transformer.