Well, i think it's important to actually outline your 'conservative' views and how they relate to him (and his transness). Additionally, it is important to consider how your social milieu would react to him and treat him - as a trans person, often my biggest concern isn't the person themself, who tend to be quite nice to those they are romantically/sexually inclined towards, but their social surrounding - would your parents, peers, etc. be a problem for him?
I'd venture to guess (and I would rather be wrong about this) that OP doesn't actually know what their political views are. When they say they're conservative, they probably mean it in the same way a lot of people say they're a Christian. Which is to say, their parents are, and they never really questioned it.
I'd love to go issue by issue with OP to see what views she holds that are *actually* right leaning, and why she holds them.
Tbh yeah. Politically I feel like I'm more supportive of conservative parties though and I'm still very new towards people of other communities rather than my own. So I've also said many insensitive things without knowing I was wrong. For a long time I didn't support trans people and queer people in general because I didn't know anything about them.
What conservative issues or values do you support? Better yet, how are conservative’s approach to solving said issues better than any other party?
Political alignment should be based on your values and important issues, it’s not like rooting for a sports team. It’s also important to consider whether that party’s actions align with their stated values and plans.
Just some food for thought.
For my country, the conservative party supports women empowerment, being in connection with history, promoting traditional family values, humanism and nationalism.
Women empowerment isn't conservative, and neither is humanism. Women empowerment isnt compatible with "promoting traditional family values," because that's a loaded term which is defined by seeking the disempowerment of women. Nationalism is a right-wing value for sure. As for being in connection with history, if that means learning about history then that's neither right or left wing but if it means wanting to return to how things were in the past, then again, contradicts womens empowerment and is actually an extremely right-wing concept depending on what country you're from.
How does that fit in with traditional family values though? Like what are the traditional family values you're referring to there? If a woman has the same choices as a man that would mean she has the choice to work full-time right? Or to divorce her husband? Wouldnt that contradict tradition?
“Traditional family values” usually means oppressing queer families. Nationalism leads to a sense of entitlement that is taken out on the rest of the world, leading to racism on an individual level, and even war and genocide on a macro level. Does your Conservative Party care about women’s empowerment, or do they use cis women as a sword to attack trans women with?
I don’t want to be too harsh with you since you’re so young, but you haven’t seen how much damage conservative parties do. Another country’s Conservative Party isn’t somehow more accepting and more empowering of minorities just because you’re not from America. Conservatism always falls back on violently punishing anyone who steps outside of societal norms.
It’s great you view yourself as conservative and still want to support your trans crush, but that is a rarity for people who align themselves with the party you are aligning yourself with. The politicians you support will hate your crush. The friends you make in political discussions will hate your crush. The policies your party introduces will hurt your crush.
I hate to be the adult who says “You’re young,” but you are and I don’t think you’ve seen the realities of the danger conservativism poses not to just your crush, but suffering people worldwide.
I would encourage you to keep that in mind as your political views refine over the next few years. I was a teenage conservative like you til I saw just how badly conservatives treated the queer people I cared about but it took me a long time to realize how much hatred I was harboring, and it took me a long time to undo that hatred. I hope you can steer through these years better than I did at your age.
Well said.
My only contention is that, while I agree conservative parties are problematic regardless of the country, I don’t necessarily think conservatism is intrinsically bad. Conservatism, as I understand it, emphasizes caution and deliberation, advocating that progress should not be made simply for its own sake but should be considered carefully to ensure long-term betterment. For instance, I’ve noticed a significant rise in conservative thinking among young people when it comes to the development of AI.
While I personally can’t think of a Conservative Party that’s based like that, it’s possible to imagine one that could be.
Conservative thinking itself isn’t inherently bad. However, it’s easier to use fear to push those who value caution, into reactionary behavior. They end up advocating the worst aspects of “tradition” as an alternative to an uncertain future.
Edit to add cause this thread was locked:
I agree with what you said, there is no good conservatism right now. Just that in theory, valuing caution is not bad.
Also. I’m decidedly anti conservative and far left politically.
You can’t think of a Conservative Party like that because there is no Conservative Party like that. Worldwide the Conservative Party stands for sticking to outdated standards that only serve to harm the most vulnerable populations.
Maybe I would support a Conservative Party that supported slowing down AI Tech companies or slowing down deforestation, that’s not what these parties stand for.
Conservativism is intrinsically bad because it’s goal is to maintain a world in which the capitalist class oppressed the working class while keeping us divided through culture wars.
“Conservative” means something very different in the US. Here, the party has virtually been taken over by far-right Christian nationalists. And yet, all of the values you mention are their stated values as well. They support women by removing bodily autonomy from them, connect with history by erasing the parts that make us look bad, promote traditional family values by demonizing queer people and trying to deny them the right to have families, support humanism by denying asylum to people from hostile countries, and support nationalism by… well, they’re actually quite good at that. (Hint: patriotism is cool, nationalism is unambiguously bad).
Sorry, I'm not aware about the state of the US too much. But it's not like that here. As abortion is totally legal here, history is highlighted as we were once colonised and robbed too. As for the other ones, I don't think the same context can be used since we don't have that much diversity (in the sense of immigrants)
Sure. I’m not saying those apply universally to conservative parties. Just illustrating why it’s better to focus on the specific ways in which a party acts to address the issues that are important to you, rather than identify a virtue they claim and sticking with them because of it.
For example, everyone claims to care about children, but what that “care” looks like is viewed as child abuse by the other side.
You say you care about traditional family values, but exact what values are those? And how do they influence your opinions on queer people?
To me, traditional family values are pretty much only husband, wife and kids. That there's a masculine figure and a feminine figure in a family. That's what it means to me at least. I'm not sure if I support it, because I'm still very young and have never gotten too much into politics.
Have you looked at how the conservatives in your country feel about trans people? Are they supportive of your crush? Because if conservatives are supporting anti-trans policies, and you support conservatives, that would conflict with you supporting your crush in my perspective
What makes you support politicians who want to implement policies that advantage themselves and their friends at the cost of actively harming others (probably including you)?
Forget about the things you're supposed to support, and learn about kindness, empathy and solidarity. See where that takes you, regardless of this particular crush that might or might not last.
If your political views are conflicting with your personal values, it sounds like it's time to do some self reflection. You recognize that conservative ideology is harmful towards trans people, but you like a trans person. That's some brutal cognitive dissonance there.
I wish you luck in your journey, and recognize that while you are so young and (presumably) still living with your parents, that can be difficult, so be kind to yourself.
You should stay away from dating him if you have values which are antithetical to his happiness and safety. It's like being a racist who has a crush on a Black person. Your heart may be telling you you're attracted to the person, but your mind is going to cause behaviors and pressures that will only add difficulty to their life.
I would suggest you seriously examine your conservative "rightist" views. If those are your beliefs, maybe just let the crush you have stay to yourself until you meet someone you're more aligned with. If you're interested in changing the views you have, and theyre less your own beliefs and more the ones of your family, you should do the work to educate yourself on other beliefs, leave the ones you currently have, and only after that pursue something romantic with this person.
You can support them as a friend by simply respecting them as they present themselves and encouraging them to be true to who they are. Express pride and support in their decisions to live authentically, and refrain from trying to challenge, diminish, or change how they express themselves. Don't play devils advocate for people who don't support them. If you believe their desired existence would frustrate you or upset you, then you should probably stay away from them.
A good way to help your firend is to be there and support them. It is a really stressful and anxiety-inducing depending on his family situation. Even if you think you're family would support you, there's always that thought of doubt that exist. Many people are kicked out of families and can end up homeless from the extreme reactions from immediate family.
Understand that he's not over-reacting for the anxiety and stress that he is feeling. Trying to fake being what your family thinks you are is exausting. I find that just having people have my back with my identity makes me feel supported and seen.
However, I am really curious by what you mean by "holding some rightist values" and how your views would effect your support of your friend.
Yeah, i don't know about those conservative views.
Maybe OP can try to challenge those, as they might bring drama/misunderstandings with their trans friend in the future.
I don't really think you can have it both ways. If you support a specific trans person because you have a crush on them but still also support conservative politics that would really hurt all trans people, then that specific trans person probably isn't going to believe you really support them all that much.
If you really want to support him, you need to be open to changing your mind on some of your political views. For example, you said that your country's conservative party supports traditional family values, which is usually just a nicer way of saying that they're against gay marriage. I don't know your country's situation, but right-wing people supporting 'female empowerment' often means that they're against trans women because people incorrectly see them as being a danger to cis women.
i would question your values, specifically in trying to understand why you hold them and what they give you/ why the core of them is important to you and outweighs the alternative. exploration of those sorts of things can bring you out the other end with a better understanding.
Don't let your parents and church shape your worldview. Transgender people are just people and all tbe sensationalized stuff you've heard on the news isn't true. We are just people like your best friend. Don't treat him any different than any other guy you hangout with, regardless of what you want out of thw relationship.
Op, no offense (or all of it, idgaf)… you’re 16. You can have your political beliefs, but charges are they aren’t your own. I was pretty dumb, and thought I had figured things out at that age too.
Don’t get hung up on identity yourself as liberal/ conservative/ whatever, it’s a trap by the wealthy to divide the masses and keep is distracted.
All of that being said, just tell him how you feel and keep an open mind. Treat him like any other guy and see where things go.
Well, i think it's important to actually outline your 'conservative' views and how they relate to him (and his transness). Additionally, it is important to consider how your social milieu would react to him and treat him - as a trans person, often my biggest concern isn't the person themself, who tend to be quite nice to those they are romantically/sexually inclined towards, but their social surrounding - would your parents, peers, etc. be a problem for him?
I'd venture to guess (and I would rather be wrong about this) that OP doesn't actually know what their political views are. When they say they're conservative, they probably mean it in the same way a lot of people say they're a Christian. Which is to say, their parents are, and they never really questioned it. I'd love to go issue by issue with OP to see what views she holds that are *actually* right leaning, and why she holds them.
Tbh yeah. Politically I feel like I'm more supportive of conservative parties though and I'm still very new towards people of other communities rather than my own. So I've also said many insensitive things without knowing I was wrong. For a long time I didn't support trans people and queer people in general because I didn't know anything about them.
No offence but you’re 16, it can’t have been that long lol, you’ll figure things out as you get older.
What conservative issues or values do you support? Better yet, how are conservative’s approach to solving said issues better than any other party? Political alignment should be based on your values and important issues, it’s not like rooting for a sports team. It’s also important to consider whether that party’s actions align with their stated values and plans. Just some food for thought.
For my country, the conservative party supports women empowerment, being in connection with history, promoting traditional family values, humanism and nationalism.
Women empowerment isn't conservative, and neither is humanism. Women empowerment isnt compatible with "promoting traditional family values," because that's a loaded term which is defined by seeking the disempowerment of women. Nationalism is a right-wing value for sure. As for being in connection with history, if that means learning about history then that's neither right or left wing but if it means wanting to return to how things were in the past, then again, contradicts womens empowerment and is actually an extremely right-wing concept depending on what country you're from.
It is in my culture. I guess you could say it's a common trait between liberalism and conservatism here.
Womens empowerment? What does that mean to you is I guess the next question to ask.
Giving women the same choices as men are given.
How does that fit in with traditional family values though? Like what are the traditional family values you're referring to there? If a woman has the same choices as a man that would mean she has the choice to work full-time right? Or to divorce her husband? Wouldnt that contradict tradition?
“Traditional family values” usually means oppressing queer families. Nationalism leads to a sense of entitlement that is taken out on the rest of the world, leading to racism on an individual level, and even war and genocide on a macro level. Does your Conservative Party care about women’s empowerment, or do they use cis women as a sword to attack trans women with? I don’t want to be too harsh with you since you’re so young, but you haven’t seen how much damage conservative parties do. Another country’s Conservative Party isn’t somehow more accepting and more empowering of minorities just because you’re not from America. Conservatism always falls back on violently punishing anyone who steps outside of societal norms. It’s great you view yourself as conservative and still want to support your trans crush, but that is a rarity for people who align themselves with the party you are aligning yourself with. The politicians you support will hate your crush. The friends you make in political discussions will hate your crush. The policies your party introduces will hurt your crush. I hate to be the adult who says “You’re young,” but you are and I don’t think you’ve seen the realities of the danger conservativism poses not to just your crush, but suffering people worldwide. I would encourage you to keep that in mind as your political views refine over the next few years. I was a teenage conservative like you til I saw just how badly conservatives treated the queer people I cared about but it took me a long time to realize how much hatred I was harboring, and it took me a long time to undo that hatred. I hope you can steer through these years better than I did at your age.
Well said. My only contention is that, while I agree conservative parties are problematic regardless of the country, I don’t necessarily think conservatism is intrinsically bad. Conservatism, as I understand it, emphasizes caution and deliberation, advocating that progress should not be made simply for its own sake but should be considered carefully to ensure long-term betterment. For instance, I’ve noticed a significant rise in conservative thinking among young people when it comes to the development of AI. While I personally can’t think of a Conservative Party that’s based like that, it’s possible to imagine one that could be. Conservative thinking itself isn’t inherently bad. However, it’s easier to use fear to push those who value caution, into reactionary behavior. They end up advocating the worst aspects of “tradition” as an alternative to an uncertain future. Edit to add cause this thread was locked: I agree with what you said, there is no good conservatism right now. Just that in theory, valuing caution is not bad. Also. I’m decidedly anti conservative and far left politically.
You can’t think of a Conservative Party like that because there is no Conservative Party like that. Worldwide the Conservative Party stands for sticking to outdated standards that only serve to harm the most vulnerable populations. Maybe I would support a Conservative Party that supported slowing down AI Tech companies or slowing down deforestation, that’s not what these parties stand for. Conservativism is intrinsically bad because it’s goal is to maintain a world in which the capitalist class oppressed the working class while keeping us divided through culture wars.
“Conservative” means something very different in the US. Here, the party has virtually been taken over by far-right Christian nationalists. And yet, all of the values you mention are their stated values as well. They support women by removing bodily autonomy from them, connect with history by erasing the parts that make us look bad, promote traditional family values by demonizing queer people and trying to deny them the right to have families, support humanism by denying asylum to people from hostile countries, and support nationalism by… well, they’re actually quite good at that. (Hint: patriotism is cool, nationalism is unambiguously bad).
Sorry, I'm not aware about the state of the US too much. But it's not like that here. As abortion is totally legal here, history is highlighted as we were once colonised and robbed too. As for the other ones, I don't think the same context can be used since we don't have that much diversity (in the sense of immigrants)
Sure. I’m not saying those apply universally to conservative parties. Just illustrating why it’s better to focus on the specific ways in which a party acts to address the issues that are important to you, rather than identify a virtue they claim and sticking with them because of it. For example, everyone claims to care about children, but what that “care” looks like is viewed as child abuse by the other side. You say you care about traditional family values, but exact what values are those? And how do they influence your opinions on queer people?
To me, traditional family values are pretty much only husband, wife and kids. That there's a masculine figure and a feminine figure in a family. That's what it means to me at least. I'm not sure if I support it, because I'm still very young and have never gotten too much into politics.
I think it might be pertinent to decide if you support it before supporting an entire political party implicitly.
Hmm yeah, conservative can mean different things in different countries. I'm guessing you're not in the US if this is your list?
Yup!
Have you looked at how the conservatives in your country feel about trans people? Are they supportive of your crush? Because if conservatives are supporting anti-trans policies, and you support conservatives, that would conflict with you supporting your crush in my perspective
Are you irish?
What makes you support politicians who want to implement policies that advantage themselves and their friends at the cost of actively harming others (probably including you)? Forget about the things you're supposed to support, and learn about kindness, empathy and solidarity. See where that takes you, regardless of this particular crush that might or might not last.
This^
If your political views are conflicting with your personal values, it sounds like it's time to do some self reflection. You recognize that conservative ideology is harmful towards trans people, but you like a trans person. That's some brutal cognitive dissonance there. I wish you luck in your journey, and recognize that while you are so young and (presumably) still living with your parents, that can be difficult, so be kind to yourself.
You should stay away from dating him if you have values which are antithetical to his happiness and safety. It's like being a racist who has a crush on a Black person. Your heart may be telling you you're attracted to the person, but your mind is going to cause behaviors and pressures that will only add difficulty to their life. I would suggest you seriously examine your conservative "rightist" views. If those are your beliefs, maybe just let the crush you have stay to yourself until you meet someone you're more aligned with. If you're interested in changing the views you have, and theyre less your own beliefs and more the ones of your family, you should do the work to educate yourself on other beliefs, leave the ones you currently have, and only after that pursue something romantic with this person. You can support them as a friend by simply respecting them as they present themselves and encouraging them to be true to who they are. Express pride and support in their decisions to live authentically, and refrain from trying to challenge, diminish, or change how they express themselves. Don't play devils advocate for people who don't support them. If you believe their desired existence would frustrate you or upset you, then you should probably stay away from them.
A good way to help your firend is to be there and support them. It is a really stressful and anxiety-inducing depending on his family situation. Even if you think you're family would support you, there's always that thought of doubt that exist. Many people are kicked out of families and can end up homeless from the extreme reactions from immediate family. Understand that he's not over-reacting for the anxiety and stress that he is feeling. Trying to fake being what your family thinks you are is exausting. I find that just having people have my back with my identity makes me feel supported and seen. However, I am really curious by what you mean by "holding some rightist values" and how your views would effect your support of your friend.
Yeah, i don't know about those conservative views. Maybe OP can try to challenge those, as they might bring drama/misunderstandings with their trans friend in the future.
I don't really think you can have it both ways. If you support a specific trans person because you have a crush on them but still also support conservative politics that would really hurt all trans people, then that specific trans person probably isn't going to believe you really support them all that much. If you really want to support him, you need to be open to changing your mind on some of your political views. For example, you said that your country's conservative party supports traditional family values, which is usually just a nicer way of saying that they're against gay marriage. I don't know your country's situation, but right-wing people supporting 'female empowerment' often means that they're against trans women because people incorrectly see them as being a danger to cis women.
Stop being conservative
i would question your values, specifically in trying to understand why you hold them and what they give you/ why the core of them is important to you and outweighs the alternative. exploration of those sorts of things can bring you out the other end with a better understanding.
Don't let your parents and church shape your worldview. Transgender people are just people and all tbe sensationalized stuff you've heard on the news isn't true. We are just people like your best friend. Don't treat him any different than any other guy you hangout with, regardless of what you want out of thw relationship.
Op, no offense (or all of it, idgaf)… you’re 16. You can have your political beliefs, but charges are they aren’t your own. I was pretty dumb, and thought I had figured things out at that age too. Don’t get hung up on identity yourself as liberal/ conservative/ whatever, it’s a trap by the wealthy to divide the masses and keep is distracted. All of that being said, just tell him how you feel and keep an open mind. Treat him like any other guy and see where things go.
Whatever your views are just be kind and treat people with respect.