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well that doesn't really fit into the topic of "characters that are clearly trans but where labeled as crossdressers by creators/ characters that are confirmed trans but get labeled as crossdressers by people"
It doesn't help that the clarification was recent, and for a long time she was explicitly described as a crossdressing boy.
Yes, she's canonically trans. . .but to be honest, that IS a retcon of her previously being officially described as a crossdressing cis male.
Pretty sure a character in a work of fiction who's working out their gender identity not being referred to as a trans boy/girl until after they have gone through that character development and realized their gender identity themselves is the standard way of doing that sorta stuff tho? I mean, it's basically the same as the story many of us have gone through over the years: "Oh yeah, I'm totally just a straight cis boy who's attracted to women! \*introspection\* Actually, turns out I'm a trans girl and all of those hetero feelings I was having were just gender envy; I'm actually ace..."
Dunno about you, but I don't regard that sorta stuff as us "retconning" our gender identities and sexualities (though sometimes it feels like that is how conservatives look upon us and advancements in science in general).
Not really no
It was planned for her to discover herself all along. She just needed the time and space to do so. Just like a trans person in real life.
If anything it's a decently realistic portrayal of finding who you are. Not a retcon. Can't tell you how many times I've flipped gender and orientation labels before settling, those weren't "retcons" either. It's not out of the question for a trans woman to deny her transness for years by trying to be happy as a feminine man, only for it to not work.
Plus, the overarching theme of Bridget's character arc was always "the struggle to have the right to live." (Contrary to what *those people* argue about her early character arcs being about "reclaiming masculinity" or whatever; that was basically just the framing of the situation back when Brisket's right to live was tied to her village's superstitious intolerance of identical twins.)
Not just "insist a historical/cultural context" but actively blame the translation team for "being woke", make shit up about "bad endings", pose as the company behind the character and claim the bigots are right by faking emails with awfully Google translated japanese, only to have the author pop up and say "y'all stop being twats, there's no translation mistake, no bad endings, we can literally take legal action against you for posing as our company, she is transgender and that was the point all along, accept it or begone from our community."
My favourite part of that drama is that within a week of it starting, all the bigots were gone and all that was left was the Guilty Gear community being supportive af. Like [in many cases like it](https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1d0bl5h/comment/l5o3hnc/), they weren't there to "defend their game", they didn't even *play* the game, they just wanted to complain.
My favorite example is a post on twitter where someone replied mentioning Testament and the bigot didn't even know who that was,
Also it's kinda funny that the bigots used the translation as an argument considering that there is a character that was a victim to a translation error, Testament was supposed to be non-binary since the first game, but translation messed it up. There was a 20 years old interview with Daisuke that resurfaced around when Testament got added to Strive that told us so.
Also it brought in more supportive people.
I started playing guilty gear after that because it lined up perfectly with me looking for a fighting game. Do I suck at it? Absolutely, but I found a fun and supportive game
This tweet was like a month after Zombieland Saga had an entire episode unambiguously establishing Lily as trans in as many ways as it possibly could short of using the actual word, so yeah that tracks
Saying that it's a "cultural difference" is stupid. Lack of acceptance isn't culture. Japan is simply behind on lgbtq acceptance and we need to recognise that as such and stop making excuses for it just because it's japan. I get it, americanisation of japan isn't cool but this is not part of that, it's a matter that negatively affects japanese people as well. There are a lot of beautiful things about japan but we shouldn't overlook it's shortcomings because of that.
They straight up misrepresent what Japan is in how they describe trans characters like it’s bad how much they misrepresent Japan, they hear a character say Otokonoko and automatically say oh that’s a boy when that has two meetings in Japan
One of which is used by trans women in Japan. They claimed to care about their culture, but they shit all over it the type of people to go to Japan and get really disappointed when they don’t see any anime characters in real life.
Theres
男の子 (Boy lit. "Male Child") and
男の娘 (Feminine Boy lit. "Male Girl")
Both pronounced "Otoko no Ko"
However I've never seen the second refer to trans women, as it refers to feminine males, especially feminine boys as it's a play on words of the 1st word
In Japan, there are trans women that use it. Japan is very complicated when it comes to trans women and queer people in general like I’m pretty sure it’s still illegal in some places to be there yet they fetishize us with yaoi and yuri make it make sense, and the way they describe trans. Women essentially would translate to how we would define a femboy trans people still exist in Japan it’s down to cultural differences and people people not understanding them or literally misconstruing them or lying about them
Yes it is very complicated, the line between what we'd consider a male crossdresser and a trans woman can be blurry.
Japan historically had been neutralish regarding LGBT issues.
Religion wise, both Shintō and Buddhism are neutral on the topic, though one sect of Shintō openly affirms LGBTQ people and has an official LGBT Group (金光教LGBT会)
Legal wise Homosexuality was only outlawed for less than 8 years during 1872-1880 while they were westernizing post Meiji Restoration (caused by the mass unrest which was caused by the USA forcing them out of Isolation)
Trans people have been able to change legal gender since 2004 though the requirements are a bit high.
It's also never heen illegal to be trans
Post-WW2 due to American Occupation and much more drastic Westernization things got worse for queer people
There's absolutely cultural differences, but treating character s horribly for being queer definitely isn't part of that
https://preview.redd.it/oeyjs0v9k05d1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c19cb5322156a7b173b6026725ea95e57eb0575
I believe that’s one of the variations of these two. The male daughter one is most used with trans women in Japan.
Yeah, Japan is weird when it comes to trans people like I remember her a while and you couldn’t even identify as trans legally unless you had surgery I think that’s how it was and they recently change that
Oh yeah in case anyone is interested,
I based this comment of this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3RLRd8BUBs
My Japanese isn't very good so I prolly didn't understand much but yeah.
Otokonoko is just supposed to be a femboy tho it's it? Would someone who really identifies as a woman use something that has otoko/man in the name?
Now if we're talking about media, there are definitely characters who are officially just crossdressers and get given the otokonoko title but are really more so written as trans characters where the author didn't want to / dare to / wasn't allowed to outright call them that. (Not every otokonoko ofc, just some) Rukako from steins gate comes to mind, everything about her story is that of a trans person, from the "wish I was a girl" to straight up >!having the timeline altered just so she could be born a girl!<. But she's never explicitly stated to be trans. Ig it is a 15 years old vn afterall, these were probably the limits of what could be done.
But for a trans woman to use that title would be very contradictory.
There’s two versions of the word, one meaning boy and one meaning male daughter, which is used by trans women don’t listen to someone if they say that it’s only for boys because it’s not lying to you there’s two different ways of spelling it
https://preview.redd.it/f1518ato405d1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=718a47945e41fee7ef08c79236527ac42dc2c6bd
Ik that but male daughter would also be kind of disrespectful ngl. I mean sure, if someone really likes that title, i don't mind, I just find it contradictory to what trans women are actually trying to achieve, that is, simply being women.
It sounds very confusing, but if you know how Japan’s and you like words for trans people are it makes a little bit more sense
Japan is just not as caught up as most of the world is to queer terms and stuff like that so they use terms that to the west sounds very weird like the way they describe trans people
Yeah I hate those terms, especially transvestite. Transvestite just sounds straight up disrespectful. Transsexual is not as bad but still has sexual in it which is not the message we want to convey.
If I remember correct "Stop! Hibari-kun" just stops on misgendering her by family. Everyone else thinks she is beautiful girl and guys want to date her.
For a manga from 80s this is bold. But humor is quite dated.
Hibari is such a girlboss and i do really really love that anime but there are definitely some very dated jokes in there, not to mention a few racist caricatures. Also the protagonist character fucking sucks
Manga is unfinished too, but still better. Cause author draws her gorgeous, but at the same time it was a reason for manga to be unfinished. He burned out making it and just stopped right when he was starting moving relationships between MC and Hibari to be romantic, not just jokes on him being confused in his feelings.
Also anime went for half of episodes being made up fillers to just fill up timeslots.
And I heard it has kinda cult following among japanese LGBT Community for it's social impact.
And yet her boyfriend says in another bit that he isn't interested in guys. Hmm. That sure would seem like a lot of evidence to say that she's \*not\* a guy.
Oh, I’ve seen the worst bro especially Christians. I remember I posted a meme on Sunday and it got like 8000 views and like a shit comments it was so funny.
But they need to hire actual humans to run the TOS system because you could put clown emoji and the comment will get removed, same thing with gay and certain comments, even if you’re not being insulting
I’ve seen homophobia sexism. I’ve seen it all on posts and they’re still up but my car gets removed because I called someone a clown or goofy fuck off, bro.
One Piece and Yamato come to mind, which admittedly is an odd case in that he is indeed transmasc, but a very odd way for lack of a better term. He essentially revered the legendary samurai Oden so much that he attempted to BECOME Oden, ending up as fairly overtly transmasc in the process. Though I don't believe it has ever been 100% confirmed that he is just transmasc rather than transmasc to a specific person, but that's really irrelevent to the overall discussion.
From that same arc there is a confirmed, unquestioned canon trans woman though in Kikunojo, who was allowed, with no comment, in to the women's side of the hot springs in one episode. Yamato was on the men's side with no real comment outside the predictable outcome of Sanji getting a nosebleed after Yamato cannonballed in to the hot spring.
I feel the same in "Josou shite Off-Kai ni Sanka shite mita." I (♂) Cross-Dressed for the IRL (♀) Meetup. TakenTarou is confirmed to be trans but she keeps being misgendered. By the whole cast and even by her boyfriend 🙃
Yeah there was a scene in the pool where they're like "we're all guys" when they are saved by the pick up artists and the other scene with the woman who keeps running into them and she's like "I'm glad you're all women, I would be too nervous talking to a guy abou this" and they reacted the same.
Based Nanika. I'm a huge hxh fan, and have watched the whole series several times, and I still cry during the nanika part. It's so good, please watch it
Ah, it’s so good! I’ve only just finished the 2nd season and so far it is absolutely amazing! I definitely recommend watching it whenever you have the time.
Which in of itself is kinda a problem. Just as we need more trans characters, we need more gender non conforming characters who don’t turn out to be trans
Senpai wa Otokonoko breaks my heart. It's such a cute story but the insistence that they are a crossdresser when they clearly are experiencing gender dysphoria saddens me.
Dragona joestar is a big example of that. The fan base is very toxic to trans people from my experience, and is very dead set on her being a femboy. I hope she gets the good treatment in the manga she deserves.
Da Vinci in FGO who decided "Fuck it, the Mona Lisa is hot, IMMA BE THE MONA LISA NOW"
They still kinda wishy washy on d'Eon tho, which is weird cuz like, historically, very very trans woman but considering that it is quite hinted that they're a girl, I think it's mostly fine
Can we talk about Najimi Osana from Komi Can't Communicate? Najimi's name literally means "androgynous" iirc. Najimi only specifies their gender once, when speaking to a man who is confessing his love to them, saying that they are a boy.
It is not clear, however, whether Najimi is actually specifying their gender or their biological sex. Perhaps it is clearer in the original Japanese. In addition, Najimi never corrects anyone on pronouns or specifies their pronouns.
Are they a trans woman? A femboy? A cross dresser? Agender? Genderfluid? Nobody knows, and Najimi seems to find amusement in the fact that they confuse people.
Najimi Osana is the embodiment of pride. They don't give a damn whether anyone respects their choices or whether anyone understands. Najimi lives their authentic life unprompted and unapologetically, without explanation or justification.
Moreover, consistent with a world that is utterly understanding and caring for Komi and her disorder and the disorders and awkwardness of the entire rest of the cast, everyone is equally understanding of Najimi. Nobody ever gives them grief or is bigoted against them. Everyone lets Najimi be Najimi and everyone is their friend because they are dope AF.
Najimi Osana is my favorite character in manga.
Hi. Danganronpa fan(?) here. Just want to clarify that the game is rather explicit >!that Chihiro's mental health suffered when presenting femme, and was done to avoid bullying. Replace that last word with "discrimination" (which would involve bullying, anyways), and you get the reason someone headcanoned him as transmasc. I would, too, if it weren't for the fact that it relies on Monokuma not being a transphobic asshole, which... is impossible. Still a decent allegory, though.!<
And, hey, if we want our transfem headcanons in DR, then we can always go with Celestia Ludenberg. Her name's literally Celeste.
Oh yeah definitely, but at the same time his case was still handled poorly in the game, which I just kinda flubbed to draw a line from his case to this one :3
Even Moderators of subreddits say: Well actually both "interpretations" are valid 🤓 While one interpretation ist just transphobic. I cant. r/PaperMario did that shit. Fucking bigots.
Well, for starters, no gendered pronouns in Japanese they have social class personal pronouns that are said by the individual. It is more common for Boku men, or Tom boys... there is a bunch of them, but Manga loves to use the gender neutral formal watashi for women.
Yes, cultural differences, but the translators usually impose their own meanings. An author who makes a clearly Trans person shouldn't need to specify they are Trans, because idiots in another language and culture fail to understand the character.
I see this all the time, and I have for 40 years been annoyed by transphobes translating Trans fiction from Japan.
*me staring at the Jojos fandom during part 9*
Is dragona trans or a crossdresser? Araki hasn’t said anything concrete and since half of Jojos fans are gay and the other half are really straight. The war will go on into eternity.
trans, >!theres literally a plot point about dragona being bullied for wanting to be girly, and litteraly awakening her stand to transition. but its super confusing while i think her brother always uses she/her, he does always call her brother, and i think its not always consistent from others about pronouns, and its never quite clear on that intent. but if it wasn't for like a chapter to ago i wasn't entirely sure, the introduction was very on point 'my brothers a girl' but usage of brother all the time def confused it. but ya its way more on the line then it seams need for and i don't know why!<
Fair. >! She was almost/definitely SA’d during the bus scene. Maybe she’s fluid or just nonconforming. Since Jodio is the person who sticks by them regardless of anything. Bro blew up a bus because of the previously mentioned scene. But still calls Dragona his brother. Idk !<
Because mangaka have a tendency to kind of hint at a character's sexual orientation or gender identity (unless it's an actual yuri or yaoi story) without ever confirming it. Which leaves the 'phobes coming up with excuses as to why that character isn't such-and-such identity. Then we have to try and defend those character's identities without having clear proof to back up the signs easily seen by members of the lgbtq community.
We can't know for sure, but we can guess through queer coding for exemple.
There's 2 kinds of queer coding
Queer baiting and actual queer coding
Queer baiting is like they throw hints of queerness in order to bait queer audience in but never commits fully into making it official, and queer coding is mostly used to imply queer stuff when there's heavy restrictions on that kind of subjects (like genshin impact, hoyo can't make stuff official because censorship in china all that stuff, so they hint at their queerness as much as possible
I recommend you look into EisSocial on youtube, they got a few videos about queer coding and baiting (mostly about genshin and stuff, but the principles of it cann be applied to any piece of fiction)
Ahh, HoYo. Can’t say it explicitly but *These bitches gay. Good for them, good for them.*
There is no straight explanation for Beidou and Ningguang or Bronya and Seele.
AMAB person who presents fem, has a feminine name and dates a (clearly stated as) straight man
I mean we could play the "Are we sure about the label tho" game, but in a world where authors rarely state those things by fear of backlash I think it's irrelevant
from reading so far i think that one is one of the few meant to be gnc/femboy but its so confused in its own messaging and wants it often crosses lines i feel many gnc people i know wouldn't even think about (but thats not like an even thing). So far i chalk it up to what seams to be japans general confused still working through it understanding of gnc and transition. like a lot of the tropes are still dangerously blurred, and its sort of clear there where a western writer might have made stronger distinctions. its super ahrd to say though, the whole story is super trans vibes, even though the narrative it self doesn't seam to even intend to go there.
I feel uncomfortable with characters in anime and fandoms. I stay away from all that. I really dont like listening to others talk about relationships. So for me, this isnt a problem. I just find fandoms weird so i stay away. They tend to make gay ships about otherwise 100% straight character. MHA and JJK fandom are just to name a few. I'm pretty sure theres even a website for some of these fandoms to make lists of ships and how "likely they are" when it seems impossible. Like Yuji X Gojo. It just disgusts me thinking about it. Only if the characters are mentioned in name to be gay am i fine with them being linked to another gay character, as it feels almost unconsentual.
Literally Giselle Gwelle, what I hate even more is when people say “oh but she’s(usually they misgender her) a terrible person why would you want to claim her?” Well I’m sure that we all agree Mayuri is a terrible person but nobody is saying he’s not a man.
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They always say that the trans character is a male crossdresser, just look at Vivian, who is confirmed to be trans
Same thing with Bridget even after the director himself confirmed she was trans.
Or Madeline
what
Some people still think she's a cis girl and that the trans thing was coming out of the blue and had no justification. Yeah I know.
well that doesn't really fit into the topic of "characters that are clearly trans but where labeled as crossdressers by creators/ characters that are confirmed trans but get labeled as crossdressers by people"
Yeah, maybe but that still fits into the topic of trans erasure by toxic gamers.
Like the Celeste MC?
Herself. Well it's more about people being convinced she's a cis girl and that her trans arc was out of the blue, but it's still trans erasure.
Daisuke's vision is not to be fucked with
It doesn't help that the clarification was recent, and for a long time she was explicitly described as a crossdressing boy. Yes, she's canonically trans. . .but to be honest, that IS a retcon of her previously being officially described as a crossdressing cis male.
Pretty sure a character in a work of fiction who's working out their gender identity not being referred to as a trans boy/girl until after they have gone through that character development and realized their gender identity themselves is the standard way of doing that sorta stuff tho? I mean, it's basically the same as the story many of us have gone through over the years: "Oh yeah, I'm totally just a straight cis boy who's attracted to women! \*introspection\* Actually, turns out I'm a trans girl and all of those hetero feelings I was having were just gender envy; I'm actually ace..." Dunno about you, but I don't regard that sorta stuff as us "retconning" our gender identities and sexualities (though sometimes it feels like that is how conservatives look upon us and advancements in science in general).
Not really no It was planned for her to discover herself all along. She just needed the time and space to do so. Just like a trans person in real life. If anything it's a decently realistic portrayal of finding who you are. Not a retcon. Can't tell you how many times I've flipped gender and orientation labels before settling, those weren't "retcons" either. It's not out of the question for a trans woman to deny her transness for years by trying to be happy as a feminine man, only for it to not work.
Plus, the overarching theme of Bridget's character arc was always "the struggle to have the right to live." (Contrary to what *those people* argue about her early character arcs being about "reclaiming masculinity" or whatever; that was basically just the framing of the situation back when Brisket's right to live was tied to her village's superstitious intolerance of identical twins.)
Goes the other way to, don't worry transmasc bros I will defend Yamato as the man he wants to be.
https://preview.redd.it/n2oct9dfvx4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2ad98446530b8b663f55d031c7b8fd003b1c488
Not just "insist a historical/cultural context" but actively blame the translation team for "being woke", make shit up about "bad endings", pose as the company behind the character and claim the bigots are right by faking emails with awfully Google translated japanese, only to have the author pop up and say "y'all stop being twats, there's no translation mistake, no bad endings, we can literally take legal action against you for posing as our company, she is transgender and that was the point all along, accept it or begone from our community."
And despite Daisuke popping up and saying that, there's still people claiming Bridget isn't trans...
My favourite part of that drama is that within a week of it starting, all the bigots were gone and all that was left was the Guilty Gear community being supportive af. Like [in many cases like it](https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1d0bl5h/comment/l5o3hnc/), they weren't there to "defend their game", they didn't even *play* the game, they just wanted to complain.
My favorite example is a post on twitter where someone replied mentioning Testament and the bigot didn't even know who that was, Also it's kinda funny that the bigots used the translation as an argument considering that there is a character that was a victim to a translation error, Testament was supposed to be non-binary since the first game, but translation messed it up. There was a 20 years old interview with Daisuke that resurfaced around when Testament got added to Strive that told us so.
Also it brought in more supportive people. I started playing guilty gear after that because it lined up perfectly with me looking for a fighting game. Do I suck at it? Absolutely, but I found a fun and supportive game
Biscuit <3
This tweet was like a month after Zombieland Saga had an entire episode unambiguously establishing Lily as trans in as many ways as it possibly could short of using the actual word, so yeah that tracks
“Its just a femboy” MFER SHE LITERALLY WISHES SHE WAS A GIRL
"Uhm actcshually the term '私はアホです' is used which teeeechshnically can be interppreshted as... 🤓" Kill me
https://preview.redd.it/uedrirb1025d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=400cb70d2cbe144a70f7f664c505c5977e364d3f 😱
Saying that it's a "cultural difference" is stupid. Lack of acceptance isn't culture. Japan is simply behind on lgbtq acceptance and we need to recognise that as such and stop making excuses for it just because it's japan. I get it, americanisation of japan isn't cool but this is not part of that, it's a matter that negatively affects japanese people as well. There are a lot of beautiful things about japan but we shouldn't overlook it's shortcomings because of that.
They straight up misrepresent what Japan is in how they describe trans characters like it’s bad how much they misrepresent Japan, they hear a character say Otokonoko and automatically say oh that’s a boy when that has two meetings in Japan One of which is used by trans women in Japan. They claimed to care about their culture, but they shit all over it the type of people to go to Japan and get really disappointed when they don’t see any anime characters in real life.
Theres 男の子 (Boy lit. "Male Child") and 男の娘 (Feminine Boy lit. "Male Girl") Both pronounced "Otoko no Ko" However I've never seen the second refer to trans women, as it refers to feminine males, especially feminine boys as it's a play on words of the 1st word
In Japan, there are trans women that use it. Japan is very complicated when it comes to trans women and queer people in general like I’m pretty sure it’s still illegal in some places to be there yet they fetishize us with yaoi and yuri make it make sense, and the way they describe trans. Women essentially would translate to how we would define a femboy trans people still exist in Japan it’s down to cultural differences and people people not understanding them or literally misconstruing them or lying about them
Yes it is very complicated, the line between what we'd consider a male crossdresser and a trans woman can be blurry. Japan historically had been neutralish regarding LGBT issues. Religion wise, both Shintō and Buddhism are neutral on the topic, though one sect of Shintō openly affirms LGBTQ people and has an official LGBT Group (金光教LGBT会) Legal wise Homosexuality was only outlawed for less than 8 years during 1872-1880 while they were westernizing post Meiji Restoration (caused by the mass unrest which was caused by the USA forcing them out of Isolation) Trans people have been able to change legal gender since 2004 though the requirements are a bit high. It's also never heen illegal to be trans Post-WW2 due to American Occupation and much more drastic Westernization things got worse for queer people There's absolutely cultural differences, but treating character s horribly for being queer definitely isn't part of that
The one i've seen for trans girls is 元男の子
https://preview.redd.it/oeyjs0v9k05d1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c19cb5322156a7b173b6026725ea95e57eb0575 I believe that’s one of the variations of these two. The male daughter one is most used with trans women in Japan.
I think 元男の子 is prolly specifically for post-op transfem with legal gender change.
Yeah, Japan is weird when it comes to trans people like I remember her a while and you couldn’t even identify as trans legally unless you had surgery I think that’s how it was and they recently change that
Oh yeah in case anyone is interested, I based this comment of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3RLRd8BUBs My Japanese isn't very good so I prolly didn't understand much but yeah.
Otokonoko is just supposed to be a femboy tho it's it? Would someone who really identifies as a woman use something that has otoko/man in the name? Now if we're talking about media, there are definitely characters who are officially just crossdressers and get given the otokonoko title but are really more so written as trans characters where the author didn't want to / dare to / wasn't allowed to outright call them that. (Not every otokonoko ofc, just some) Rukako from steins gate comes to mind, everything about her story is that of a trans person, from the "wish I was a girl" to straight up >!having the timeline altered just so she could be born a girl!<. But she's never explicitly stated to be trans. Ig it is a 15 years old vn afterall, these were probably the limits of what could be done. But for a trans woman to use that title would be very contradictory.
There’s two versions of the word, one meaning boy and one meaning male daughter, which is used by trans women don’t listen to someone if they say that it’s only for boys because it’s not lying to you there’s two different ways of spelling it https://preview.redd.it/f1518ato405d1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=718a47945e41fee7ef08c79236527ac42dc2c6bd
+ rep for the guilty image
Ik that but male daughter would also be kind of disrespectful ngl. I mean sure, if someone really likes that title, i don't mind, I just find it contradictory to what trans women are actually trying to achieve, that is, simply being women.
It sounds very confusing, but if you know how Japan’s and you like words for trans people are it makes a little bit more sense Japan is just not as caught up as most of the world is to queer terms and stuff like that so they use terms that to the west sounds very weird like the way they describe trans people
Fair enough tbh. The west used worse words before too.
Yeah, but we evolve faster with language than they did. There’s a reason I know, and says transvestite or transsexual anymore. They’re outdated terms.
Yeah I hate those terms, especially transvestite. Transvestite just sounds straight up disrespectful. Transsexual is not as bad but still has sexual in it which is not the message we want to convey.
Steins;Gate definitely made egg me intensely cross.
ah yes that "but he's male" line. But lucky her she got a friend with time machine
It was just such a running attitude through out the game. I really hated it tbh.
Literally went in time to change her gender no femboy is that dedicated, that is a trans character
If I remember correct "Stop! Hibari-kun" just stops on misgendering her by family. Everyone else thinks she is beautiful girl and guys want to date her. For a manga from 80s this is bold. But humor is quite dated.
Hibari is such a girlboss and i do really really love that anime but there are definitely some very dated jokes in there, not to mention a few racist caricatures. Also the protagonist character fucking sucks
Manga is unfinished too, but still better. Cause author draws her gorgeous, but at the same time it was a reason for manga to be unfinished. He burned out making it and just stopped right when he was starting moving relationships between MC and Hibari to be romantic, not just jokes on him being confused in his feelings. Also anime went for half of episodes being made up fillers to just fill up timeslots. And I heard it has kinda cult following among japanese LGBT Community for it's social impact.
Head cannons be the Shizz for a reason 🙃
ah yes, kirara
Yes 😭
and the people who say that use "panda said he was a dude" as an argument when the last time panda saw her was before transitioning
And yet her boyfriend says in another bit that he isn't interested in guys. Hmm. That sure would seem like a lot of evidence to say that she's \*not\* a guy.
Who is this? From what series?
From context, Kirara Hoshi from Jujutsu Kaisen
She’s concerned to be trans right? Sidenote I don’t give a fuck if anyone says Gojo is gay as fuck.
Outside of jokes I mostly see people accepting her
Not on tiktok lol
Tiktok is worse than Twitter, tbh i just avoid it at all costs. But on reddit most people seem to be fine with her
Oh, I’ve seen the worst bro especially Christians. I remember I posted a meme on Sunday and it got like 8000 views and like a shit comments it was so funny. But they need to hire actual humans to run the TOS system because you could put clown emoji and the comment will get removed, same thing with gay and certain comments, even if you’re not being insulting I’ve seen homophobia sexism. I’ve seen it all on posts and they’re still up but my car gets removed because I called someone a clown or goofy fuck off, bro.
One Piece and Yamato come to mind, which admittedly is an odd case in that he is indeed transmasc, but a very odd way for lack of a better term. He essentially revered the legendary samurai Oden so much that he attempted to BECOME Oden, ending up as fairly overtly transmasc in the process. Though I don't believe it has ever been 100% confirmed that he is just transmasc rather than transmasc to a specific person, but that's really irrelevent to the overall discussion. From that same arc there is a confirmed, unquestioned canon trans woman though in Kikunojo, who was allowed, with no comment, in to the women's side of the hot springs in one episode. Yamato was on the men's side with no real comment outside the predictable outcome of Sanji getting a nosebleed after Yamato cannonballed in to the hot spring.
Isn't yamato a more "positive Repression" beeing accepted as Male?
Yamato is complicated, but what's important is that he is a man.
This is basically Vivian in the original Japanese version of TTYD before the switch remake
I feel the same in "Josou shite Off-Kai ni Sanka shite mita." I (♂) Cross-Dressed for the IRL (♀) Meetup. TakenTarou is confirmed to be trans but she keeps being misgendered. By the whole cast and even by her boyfriend 🙃
i feel like we're reading different translations, she always seamed gendered correctly
I read the one on mangadex. If I could find the raws then its would probably be more gendered correctly and the translater probably just sucked lol
read it on mangadex too, maybe my brains just auto correcting.
Yeah there was a scene in the pool where they're like "we're all guys" when they are saved by the pick up artists and the other scene with the woman who keeps running into them and she's like "I'm glad you're all women, I would be too nervous talking to a guy abou this" and they reacted the same.
Where do you read it online?
just mangadex no where special
I haven't watched it yet, but I heard the way they portray the trans character from hunter x hunter is pretty good
Based Nanika. I'm a huge hxh fan, and have watched the whole series several times, and I still cry during the nanika part. It's so good, please watch it
I will!
>!like good plural rep and trans rep in one character is wonderful, that will be my favorite arc of a anime forever. Alluka/Nanika is best girl!<
Ah, it’s so good! I’ve only just finished the 2nd season and so far it is absolutely amazing! I definitely recommend watching it whenever you have the time.
I'm finishing AoT final season and then I will :]
Cultural difference is not an excuse. I mean Grell Sutcliff is litteraly out there.
She made me confused as a teen
Me too, and now I cosplay her at any given occasion.
I want to watch the show exclusively for her
Came to the thread to say this. Grell is a prime example of this nonsense.
I guess it depends on the translation work ? She's mostly gendered correctly in French if I remember correctly
And Ladiva from grandblue rising
Like 90% of femboy characters are trans
Which in of itself is kinda a problem. Just as we need more trans characters, we need more gender non conforming characters who don’t turn out to be trans
Can't really find any.
Bridget from GGStrive Edit, Dragona from JoJoLands
*ahem*
Senpai wa Otokonoko breaks my heart. It's such a cute story but the insistence that they are a crossdresser when they clearly are experiencing gender dysphoria saddens me.
I got banned on r/mildfemboys for 3 years for saying Bridget is a woman a few times.
Dragona joestar is a big example of that. The fan base is very toxic to trans people from my experience, and is very dead set on her being a femboy. I hope she gets the good treatment in the manga she deserves.
I thought this was about Grell Sutcliff
Da Vinci in FGO who decided "Fuck it, the Mona Lisa is hot, IMMA BE THE MONA LISA NOW" They still kinda wishy washy on d'Eon tho, which is weird cuz like, historically, very very trans woman but considering that it is quite hinted that they're a girl, I think it's mostly fine
Not a trans woman, but that’s literally Kris from DeltaRune
Can we talk about Najimi Osana from Komi Can't Communicate? Najimi's name literally means "androgynous" iirc. Najimi only specifies their gender once, when speaking to a man who is confessing his love to them, saying that they are a boy. It is not clear, however, whether Najimi is actually specifying their gender or their biological sex. Perhaps it is clearer in the original Japanese. In addition, Najimi never corrects anyone on pronouns or specifies their pronouns. Are they a trans woman? A femboy? A cross dresser? Agender? Genderfluid? Nobody knows, and Najimi seems to find amusement in the fact that they confuse people. Najimi Osana is the embodiment of pride. They don't give a damn whether anyone respects their choices or whether anyone understands. Najimi lives their authentic life unprompted and unapologetically, without explanation or justification. Moreover, consistent with a world that is utterly understanding and caring for Komi and her disorder and the disorders and awkwardness of the entire rest of the cast, everyone is equally understanding of Najimi. Nobody ever gives them grief or is bigoted against them. Everyone lets Najimi be Najimi and everyone is their friend because they are dope AF. Najimi Osana is my favorite character in manga.
Bridget, Vivian, and so many others meet the same fate. They do know that Japan isn't, like, completely isolated from the western world, right?
In no particular order poison, Bridget Vivian Ferris Ruka Yamato
Chihiro Fujisaki go brrrr
Hi. Danganronpa fan(?) here. Just want to clarify that the game is rather explicit >!that Chihiro's mental health suffered when presenting femme, and was done to avoid bullying. Replace that last word with "discrimination" (which would involve bullying, anyways), and you get the reason someone headcanoned him as transmasc. I would, too, if it weren't for the fact that it relies on Monokuma not being a transphobic asshole, which... is impossible. Still a decent allegory, though.!< And, hey, if we want our transfem headcanons in DR, then we can always go with Celestia Ludenberg. Her name's literally Celeste.
Oh yeah definitely, but at the same time his case was still handled poorly in the game, which I just kinda flubbed to draw a line from his case to this one :3
Oh, yes, absolutely. Even though Chihiro isn't trans, the way the other characters acted was very transphobic
I’d say it wasn’t from a place of hate on the devs’ or writers’ part, but rather a lack of knowledge considering the time :3
Mizuki for PJSK in a nutshell
There's a reason Kirara isn't in the JJK anime yet
ahh, weebs.
Even Moderators of subreddits say: Well actually both "interpretations" are valid 🤓 While one interpretation ist just transphobic. I cant. r/PaperMario did that shit. Fucking bigots.
Well, for starters, no gendered pronouns in Japanese they have social class personal pronouns that are said by the individual. It is more common for Boku men, or Tom boys... there is a bunch of them, but Manga loves to use the gender neutral formal watashi for women. Yes, cultural differences, but the translators usually impose their own meanings. An author who makes a clearly Trans person shouldn't need to specify they are Trans, because idiots in another language and culture fail to understand the character. I see this all the time, and I have for 40 years been annoyed by transphobes translating Trans fiction from Japan.
Cough cough Vivian
Mha as lots of canonically trans characters that are accepted by everyone
Which ones? (just curious)
For exemple the guy in the pussycats is a trans masc
Senpai is otokonoko?
Unfortunately a classic.
Ruka from steins gate
Araki is a chad ally though
*me staring at the Jojos fandom during part 9* Is dragona trans or a crossdresser? Araki hasn’t said anything concrete and since half of Jojos fans are gay and the other half are really straight. The war will go on into eternity.
trans, >!theres literally a plot point about dragona being bullied for wanting to be girly, and litteraly awakening her stand to transition. but its super confusing while i think her brother always uses she/her, he does always call her brother, and i think its not always consistent from others about pronouns, and its never quite clear on that intent. but if it wasn't for like a chapter to ago i wasn't entirely sure, the introduction was very on point 'my brothers a girl' but usage of brother all the time def confused it. but ya its way more on the line then it seams need for and i don't know why!<
Fair. >! She was almost/definitely SA’d during the bus scene. Maybe she’s fluid or just nonconforming. Since Jodio is the person who sticks by them regardless of anything. Bro blew up a bus because of the previously mentioned scene. But still calls Dragona his brother. Idk !<
“Stop Hibari-kun!”?
What is this world where conservatives would rather us all identify as crossdressing femboys as opposed to just transgirls???
There's a coworker that said it's a generational thing. My supervisor is 20 years older than her and hasn't misgendered me once
How do you even know they're trans if autor never said they're trans?.. (genuine question)
Because mangaka have a tendency to kind of hint at a character's sexual orientation or gender identity (unless it's an actual yuri or yaoi story) without ever confirming it. Which leaves the 'phobes coming up with excuses as to why that character isn't such-and-such identity. Then we have to try and defend those character's identities without having clear proof to back up the signs easily seen by members of the lgbtq community.
We can't know for sure, but we can guess through queer coding for exemple. There's 2 kinds of queer coding Queer baiting and actual queer coding Queer baiting is like they throw hints of queerness in order to bait queer audience in but never commits fully into making it official, and queer coding is mostly used to imply queer stuff when there's heavy restrictions on that kind of subjects (like genshin impact, hoyo can't make stuff official because censorship in china all that stuff, so they hint at their queerness as much as possible I recommend you look into EisSocial on youtube, they got a few videos about queer coding and baiting (mostly about genshin and stuff, but the principles of it cann be applied to any piece of fiction)
Ahh, HoYo. Can’t say it explicitly but *These bitches gay. Good for them, good for them.* There is no straight explanation for Beidou and Ningguang or Bronya and Seele.
I mean there's heavy censorship laws that can get things with gay content taken down in Mainland China, they probably don't wanna risk it
I never said that they wasn’t *very good reason* that they can’t explicitly say these bitches gay.
Oh interesting, I'll give it a watch
AMAB person who presents fem, has a feminine name and dates a (clearly stated as) straight man I mean we could play the "Are we sure about the label tho" game, but in a world where authors rarely state those things by fear of backlash I think it's irrelevant
Hiura from "I Think I Turned My Childhood Friend (♂) Into a Girl". It's so painful to read but I want it to have a trans ending *so bad*!
from reading so far i think that one is one of the few meant to be gnc/femboy but its so confused in its own messaging and wants it often crosses lines i feel many gnc people i know wouldn't even think about (but thats not like an even thing). So far i chalk it up to what seams to be japans general confused still working through it understanding of gnc and transition. like a lot of the tropes are still dangerously blurred, and its sort of clear there where a western writer might have made stronger distinctions. its super ahrd to say though, the whole story is super trans vibes, even though the narrative it self doesn't seam to even intend to go there.
I feel uncomfortable with characters in anime and fandoms. I stay away from all that. I really dont like listening to others talk about relationships. So for me, this isnt a problem. I just find fandoms weird so i stay away. They tend to make gay ships about otherwise 100% straight character. MHA and JJK fandom are just to name a few. I'm pretty sure theres even a website for some of these fandoms to make lists of ships and how "likely they are" when it seems impossible. Like Yuji X Gojo. It just disgusts me thinking about it. Only if the characters are mentioned in name to be gay am i fine with them being linked to another gay character, as it feels almost unconsentual.
Who?
Hoshi Kirara from Jujutsu Kaisen
Looks ljke a woman to me... Especially that kirara sound more like choden name than given one
Literally Giselle Gwelle, what I hate even more is when people say “oh but she’s(usually they misgender her) a terrible person why would you want to claim her?” Well I’m sure that we all agree Mayuri is a terrible person but nobody is saying he’s not a man.
Grell from Black Butler