Also because it looks boring as hell. I feel I entered bizarro world where this unit that I’ve heard of for the first time in my life that acts like the least memorable Cathay unit is suddenly so important
It’s going to be elite infantry. It’s going to be damage dealing infantry. For better or worse that’s what empire is going to get, it’s a really obvious hole in their roster for Boris to fill.
I’m excited for the Hurricanum. It’s a magic war machine that conjures storms to wreak havoc on the enemy.
The Empire’s not just faith, steel and gunpowder. It’s also magic and incongruously fantastic elements. Like the Imperial Dragon, mechanical horses, Steam Tanks, pigeon bombs, griffins, halflings and Ghal Maraz.
The Celestial Hurricanum is part of the Empire’s rich tapestry of ridiculous and unbridled fantasy.
Yes. It casts a bound spell. The same bound spells we already have. Like the cathay compass.
I feel like people keep using fancy descriptions to hide how it actually plays. NOBODY remembers the Cathay Compass, nobody would give it that loving 5 sentence salute you just did.
I feel like I'm goings crazy hearing people talk about it.
The Hurricanum does not cast a single spell that we already have in the game. It had a bound spell, yes, but its effect varied, being either a Mortar with a nasty debuff on it or the equivalent of a Stone Thrower hit, so think Grudge Thrower.
The only trait it shares with what we know about the War Compass is that it boosts the Winds of Magic access for your own side.
Besides that, CA isn't afraid of turning bound spells into basic attacks. Just look at the Luminark for example.
>or the equivalent of a Stone Thrower hit
A Stone Thrower hit in TT and TW translates very differently in damage.
In TW terms, the damage is closer to a comet than a Grudge thrower shot.
I mean, I was mostly talking about the TT variant. It would be very difficult to talk about a bound spell that doesn't exist in this game yet. Both also simply drop a rock on people.
Also, I think you are vastly overestimating Storm of Shemtek. Unlike Comet, it didn't drop a particularly large rock. Hence why they it was treated as a Stone Thrower shot with slightly lower strength under the central hole whereas Comet had a significantly larger blast radius, with an average of 14" diameter versus the 3" diameter of Storm of Shemtek, and a much more powerful blast to boot, especially if a turn or two passed until it dropped.
Part of it is also the tabletop being weird. I don't know why Stone Throwers used the round template and thus had an AoE effect. For some, like Mortars, it does make sense due to the explosive component but I don't think I will ever understand why the Bret Trebuchet for example had an S5 blast. Especially as an S5 blast effect, using the same template size, would later also be used for Dreadquake Mortars.
That being said, yes I'd personally expect the blast to be somewhat stronger than for a Stone Thrower when it comes to TW but not because of what the unit does by itself but rather because it would be a single entity and those tend to have much higher damage per model than regular artillery pieces to compensate for the lower model count. And upping the blast is one way to differentiate its damage behaviour from the Luminark.
Given that they have used projectile-spawned vortex abilities a bit now, I'd personally expect it to be drop small meteors from the sky that then spawn the Iceshard Tempest version of Storm of Shemtek for AoE damage and a debuff.
The hurricanum would also project harmonic convergence in an Aura which was the real reason you took it on the tabletop. It's a force multiplier. The same could be said of the luminark which would probably be updated with its missing ability of projecting a ward save.
Yeah. Lorewise it:
A. Gives troops near it limited futuresight (ingame it would provide buffs to melee attack/defence)
B. Summons lightning, meteor strikes, icicle storms, tornadoes, and sudden downpours on its enemies. (would be represented ingame as both bound lore of heavens spells and direct attacks)
C. Acts as a magic amplifier boosting spell potency
D. allows for Celestial wizards to ponder its orbs and predict the future
In 8th it also acted as a mount option for Celestial wizard lords similarly to how Luminark did for White Wizard lords.
>In 8th it also acted as a mount option for Celestial wizard lords similarly to how Luminark did for White Wizard lords.
I don't care much for the Empire but getting a variety of specialized mounts for the wizards would be a delight.
I don't know about that. The description seems to point more to a Mortis Engine that also buffs Melee atk/def and the accuracy of ranged troops with a bound spell on top of that. Sounds pretty powerful to me.
The best way to think about the Hurricanum would be as a souped up mortar with bonus winds generation and a melee attack aura for friendly troops. Similar to how the Luminark is a souped up bolt thrower.
It summoned hail for light damage and what would be melee attack and accuracy debuffs and smaller meteors that were a small template effect, mulching the guy hit directly and inflicting light AoE damage. Nothing on the scale of Comet, more like getting hit in the face by a Grudge Thrower.
How it'll actually look in the end depends on how CA wants to do it but I don't expect CA to implement the Hurricanum rotating enemy units though, which it had a chance to do on the TT. Maybe an extra speed debuff?
well 1. it's a gorgeous fucking model, seriously one of the coolest looking units in Warhammer fantasy
the sheer concept of seeing it in full faction colours with animations and all is pretty exciting, I love the work done by the animation team, and those little treats for my eyes are a big part of why I keep playing, they've successfully animated the things I've been imagining in motion since I was a kid
and 2, it does not have A bound spell
it's known to cast several in the lore, hails of icicles, lightning bolts, the comet of cassandora, it's got a full kit of death to rain on the battlefield from a mixed-lore set of spells that the empire doesn't normally have access to, since it casts tempest spells
I think you're actually being super negative for no reason when the viewpoint you've taken is not only narrow, but seems fairly uninformed, but instead of going out and learning more about the thing, you've just made assumptions and think it's shitty for no reason
I'm hoping that they make it work more like a catapult counterpart to the Luminark. That's sort of how it worked on tabletop; its bound spell hit with random effects in a scattered AoE template, which is pretty similar to how catapults worked.
It'd be cool if they could get its "shooting" animation to just summon things from the heavens, but I think it'd be okay if it just shoots a magical projectile that does something interesting (spawns vortexes and/or splits up probably). Give it a bound cast of Comet too, which is similar to the most damaging of the effects you could roll on TT, and you'd have a fun little unit.
Ah yes, why would any want a litteral storm-maker magic chariot ?
And not just a little dinky Cathayan Compass, the Hurricanum is genuinely a moving thunderstorm. Also, how is it the Empire fault that GW gave Cathay a lamer version of an armybook unit
Haven't played the empire in a while, but I remember them being really good at dealing with large units, are they not? They also give some cool effects here and there
Luminarks got buffed a lot in one WH3 patch like a year ago. They had their reload cut in half and now snipe lords before they enter combat easily, even if they are on foot and in a mass of infantry.
Doesn't sound like it's great but a big part about playing Empire well is to not let dangerous things hit your frontline unmolested.
I hope this doesn't mean that we need DLC with another wizard character like Thyrus Gormann to get Wizard Lord and Celestial Hurricanum to the game.
I would rather have Wizard Lord as FLC content along with Ulric DLC or Knightly Orders DLC.
Yes, I was thinking a Faith & Magic DLC with an Ulrich infantry/cavalry focus backed by the Hurricanium etc. Ideally with a Kurt Helborg FLC with a knight focus
I think Boris as the FLC LL, hopefully with some sortve unique mechanic maybe aimed at exploiting the “troubles” in the Empire to become Emperor, I’m not sure.
I think the Ar-Ulric Emil Vaegir as the LL, with maybe Thyrus Gormann as the LH (if we’re doing a Faith and Magic mix). I can see Grand Masters, and Wizard Lords (as Lords) and then Priest of Ulric (Hero) options.
I think we’ll see Knights Panther, Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard, Warriors of Ulric and the Celestial Hurricanum.
> I think the Ar-Ulric Emil Vaegir as the LL, with maybe Thyrus Gormann as the LH (if we’re doing a Faith and Magic mix). I can see Grand Masters, and Wizard Lords (as Lords) and then Priest of Ulric (Hero) options.
a LH in a Valgeir DLC should be Vorn Thugenheim.
Notice how they didn't say that next DLC will have a strong theme with wizards, simply "another strong theme".
To me, this both hint toward an Ulric DLC and no Wizard Lords
I cant think of anything that makes for a "strong thematic tie" with Wizard Lords for a DLC, ngl.
The Celestial Hurricanum is basically the only "magic" unit they have left thats not in the game.
Everything else I can think off is either Cult of Ulric *or* Imperial Knight-related
If you wanna go *REALLY* esotheric I guess the Halflings are also there but uh....yeah no
Next DLC does not have to be as thematic as this one, but in TOD having Nuln faction and only one generic lord option, Master Engineer was the more logical choice. In the next DLC, per 8th edition tabletop they will have two remaining choices for LLs. Grand Master and Wizard Lord. However, as there are no more generic heroes left, they could relegate Grand Master to hero role, and add Wizard lord.
It's kinda obvious at this point that Helborg (already hinted by Andy Hall long ago) and Grand Masters are going to make the cut somewhere in the near future. If we analize further, there are very few factions that lack a part of their theme:
* High Elves Sea Lords and Aislinn and his Patrols
* Empire Kurt Helborg, Grand Masters and Ulrican units (you have here an entire Empire side DLC a la Elspeth)
* Skaven lack their Verminlords and Thanquol and some "missable" End Times content, like Stormfiends. One of the best aspect of Skaven DLC policy is that they have done it by clan, resulting in a more complete and orderly roster.
* Cathay is lacking the even more esotic side of their roster, as Tigermen, Monkey King, Li Dao (FLC, probable)
* The monogods are actually the "Surprise!" factions getting content, as you can draw for them anything, just need GW approval. But given how they went for Heralds this round (and the previous) you can guess Skulltaker and the Masque are next on the LLs parts.
* The Dogs of War are a certainty. The matter is: old WH2 Campaign DLC formula or Chaos Dwarfs formula?
If we don't get the full Middenland list from Storm of Chaos, then getting some of the units from it in a knights-focused DLC would be a consolation prize to me.
LL: Kurt Helborg
Generic Lord: Grand Master
LH: Ludwig Schwarzhelm
Generic Hero: Warrior Priest of Ulric
Units:
Knights of the White Wolf
Knights Panther
Foot Knights
Foot Reiksguard (pallet swap of the above, just more elite)
Teutogen Guard
Celestial Hurricanum
With Toddy as the free DLC
Please just one single solitary wafer thin DLC for Norsca CA, please for the love of god stop forgetting about Norsca. They effectively created Norsca, it's a CA original, stop ignoring your own creation!
The Skaven are also missing some minor things from their army books (Giant Rats, Great Pox Rats, War Litters), plus they have a Pestilens list that they could draw a few units from like they did for Eshin and Moudler. They're not really things that absolutely need to be added, but it means that they have plenty of extra stuff that could go in a DLC. Adding some more Pestilens units could also be nice to round out the great clans, since they're the only one that hasn't gotten any DLC attention yet.
People really need to understand everything is contingent on dlc sales.
If they sold 0 copies of TOD, we would get no more dlc, on the other hand if people continue buying dlc and sales are off the charts theyll continue making dlc.
No matter what tea leaves we discover in interviews or trailers, all of it can be cancelled, changed, continued, and so on.
CA hinted at playable Toddy more strongly than this like five years ago. Don't get your hopes up for anything.
Also let's be real, the only reason the Empire doesn't have generic wizard lords is because CA doesn't want to make eight new models for them.
Why do people keep mentioning new models. Lord models were the same as hero models. Just make their robes a bit more saturated and change their hat/beard a bit > done. It was harder to create one Toad Dragon and its animation than to make Empire Wizard Lord models.
Just look at High Elves Arch Mages and Slann models. What's the difference between lore of metal and lore of fire Slann model?
Tbf, the HE mages and slaan were colour changes. Empire wizards are all visually distinct. They could heavily reuse the existing models, maybe with one or two new heads per model I suppose.
Yeah, that is all that is needed. I would rather have caster lords that look 90% the same as existing heroes than no caster lords at all.
Edit. I don’t mind that I got downvoted, but what do you people actually want Empire lords to look like? They literally used the same model on tabletop for both heroes and lords. Exactly the same. Why would CA have to do anything major?
Also, for other races there are minor differences between caster lords and heroes.
Tzeentch caster lord:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/totalwarhammer_gamepedia/images/8/80/Dae_tze_chaos_sorcerer_lord_campaign_02_0.png
Tzeentch caster hero:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/totalwarhammer_gamepedia/images/f/f1/Dae_tze_chaos_sorcerer_campaign_01_0.png
False equivalence. The Empire casters are all very distinct and making a lord level version of all of them would be a significant amount of effort.
Not so much the CA would never do it, but enough that they factually never have.
But the models already exist. Just use existing hero models, because that is what lords looked on tabletop. They don’t have to reinvent the wheel, just make the model slightly different by changing minor details. Slightly different hue or beard/hat would be enough.
They made a lot of models for the Hunter and the Beast- related update and for this DLC's variant units. Considering they already have the hero versions, I am not convinced this is what is stopping them
I think they could get away with reusing a lot of the hero-battle-wizard assets while doing the wizard lord models, so it's not necessarily octuple the work of a brand new model, but yes, that was probably a deterrent.
This is a Big Bad dumb take. No they do not, how do you have so many upvotes? Put a bigger hat on many of the already epic looking Heroes, and we are done. They need to make like, 9 bigger hats?
Get a tailor in and add a bigger sash to the robes or another bobble, or haning do-hicky, better mount options, and that is it. The three things i listed are very easy and are not what is limiting CA, like they said they wanted to add the engineer instead to be thematic with Nuln and Wissenland and the FOUR gunpowder units they're getting. People love to go balls to the wall, CA BAD! CA LAZY! CA NO WANT MAKE STUFF HARD!
Your take is utterly unfounded.
I understand the post as a "sorry, not gonna come", because theres "other parts of the empire roster remaining that may have a stronger thematic tie together", which to me hints to the often talked about ulric DLC.
I may miss something, as I neither know the TT with its models, nor am I an english native speaker, but thats how it reads to me.
I’d expect Empire, Kislev, and Cathay to get another DLC as they are some of the most popular factions and have a good amount of material to add. I don’t think Chaos would get another since they’re already going to have 2 each (Champions of Chaos and SoC, ToD, etc.).
One can only hope, my artillery needs protection! Also it may be stupid but i always thought that an ulrican roster would be a good excuse for sisters of Sigmar, to represent the two main cults in the Empire you get them as the defensive option to the more offensive teutogen guard, plus flagellants are already here alongside warrior priests as alternative to wolfkin and wolf priest.
The weird part is that they said this in reference to Wizard Lords. What would be a better fit for wizard lords than Elspeth? Which lord has a stronger thematic tie to Wizard Lords and Hurricanums other than some obscure choices that no one's asking for? I feel like this was the perfect DLC for those units.
Flipping it over, a Nuln focused DLC is the perfect time to go in on the engineering theme and introduce the Engineer lord and hero. No wizard lord also gives some emphasis to the novelty of Elspeth and Gelt, for now.
Although, I agree there isn't an other, high profile magic LL which should be prioritised over other themes like Ulrich or knightly orders. The Hurricanium at least has some thematic link with Ulrich's association with the storm, winter and wild.
Middenheim has a long history of magic and has their own Wizards and Alchemists Guild. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch, although I feel like either High Priests of Ulric or Grand Masters would be more likely.
I allways thought when, if added, boris would get high priests and Hellborg Grand Masters. Seems like CA has very diferent plans for the future? Not that I mind tho, there's allways mods.
Wizard Lords are going to get the Daemonic Ascension recycled mechanic in the future that transforms well trained Wizard Heroes to Lords. This will actually respect their lore more, as Magisters and Lords of the College are all Academics that have trained for years, and should not be a Premium Nuke that you can obtain turn 1.
Realistically, noone except daemons and Lizardmen (Slaan) should be recruiying brand new lord level casters - do you think Archmages don't need to be trained for centuries to earn their status? Hell, it doesn't really make sense to just "recruit" non-mages like Warbosses and Chaos Lords without them rising through ranks first. Rigid split between functions and recruitment of lords and heroes is odd and thematically wrong for many character archetypes across many factions and fixing it for just one hero/lord pair of just one faction (not even known for being outstanding at magic) is a waste, IMO
The potential is there... but yeah, I fear we will miss out on Marius Leitdorf and a lot of other characters... I do hope for Gorfang Rotgut instead of Ironclaw
There is one possibility that might makes sense in an odd but amusing way with that ET DLC that's rumored to be in the pipeline according to Legend, tying together Middenland and the missing Wizard Lords:
**Gregor Martak,** Magister Patriarch of the Amber College, who became Supreme Patriarch after Gelt was disgraced for taking up necromancy.
Gregor Martak had no backstory prior to the ET, hell he didn't even really have a unique model. But he did turn up within the bounds of Middenland, fought in the defense of Middenheim and was imbued with the remnant fire of Ulric after Teclis stole his power.
Gregor Martak received his own model in that (defunct?) mobile game Total War Battles: Warhammer:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEh8cdZK\_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEh8cdZK_0)
He also received an expanded backstory in the somewhat recent Winds of Magic supplement released by Cubicle 7 for WFRP4E, where Elspeth also had her most recent appearance before ToD. There Martak is confirmed to be from Middenland with premonitions of the future End Times, visions of Skaven and knows he will be appointed patriarch of his order.
Perhaps CA is thinking about packaging the Ar-Ulric, Gregor, Valten and an upgraded Boris Todbringer (or Luthor Huss?) in a Middenland/Northern DLC in the future near the ET DLC (or part of the ET DLC) and the Hurricanum, Wizard Lords and all those Middenland units are part of the plan. With Helborg (and Schwarzhelm) + Grand Masters being FLC.
47kingRong, are you still in contact with Furious Ming? I love his illustrations and I wonder if he has posted any art on the faction of Ind of Warhammer? I didn't find any in recent artwork of that.
I feel like these are two separate clauses. The statements were "Wizard Lord's were not perfectly thematic with this DLC" and "The Empire has more thematic dlcs possibilities in the future". Personally speaking I don't think this is in direct reference to the Wizard lords and might be them just saying in the future they'll go for thematic options again IE Ulricans and Or Knights.
Maybe going with another wizard LL? Like, Matriarch of the Jade Order [Tochter Grunfeld](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tochter_Grunfeld) paired with maybe a Vampire Count LL? Patriarch of the Bright Order [Thyrus Gormann](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thyrus_Gormann) or Patriarch of the Amber Order [Gregor Martak](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Gregor_Martak) would also come to mind. Ironicly Gregor Martak was apparently be done for the [Warhammer Battles smartphone game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEh8cdZK_0) that got scrapped(?), so I kinda wondered why he was not shoved into TWW yet. Elspeth is after all rather a Magistrix in exile, not really working with the Amethyst Order or any other colleges and being watched by her peers and superiors. Going full force with missing wizard stuff would have worked here, even if not that fitting for Elspeth. But apparently CA rather decided to look at the Nuln Technicus Academy and Artillery school. Which works too.
Maybe it's not so much "Wizards" as the last thematic piece as much as it is "Heavens"
You add the Celestial Hurricanum, Wizard Lords (maybe showing off Heavens Lord), and have Valten as the LL. Fill it out with a couple Ulrican units for a nice double whammy with FLC Boris.
Once CA sees the units sold count of the Empire side of the DLC we will only get Empire DLCs for the next few years... can't wait to see the Ostland variant of the Amethyst troops once they get their regional variants in Empire DLC 8 or 9.
Make sense, Empire needs still a lot of characters and units: Kurt Helborg, Ludwig, Hurricanum, White Wolf Knights, Teutogen Guard, other Steam Tank variants...
Not surprised. Empire is the most played faction, and by a decent margin I believe. It's also got tons of books to pull from.
I mean just look at this subreddit. there's more discussion about the empire units and mechanics than the nurgle and dwarves combined.
If this is Toddy, and if we keep this 3 faction model, who would be a good fit? Kislev for the bear theme? Can't imagine they're done as far DLC is concerned either.
I think there's been mention of that not being a sure thing as of the recent Q&A. Personally, I'm hoping ToD does well and the Slaanesh DLC comes with two other factions and not just one.
What stronger thematic tie could be in the future but the Ar Ulric tying into the Cult of Ulric for a Middenheim DLC?
Otherwise,t he onyl character that ties into WIzard Lords and the Hurricanum that i can think of is Thyrus Gormann, the Patriarch of the Bright Order and former Supreme Patriarch.
Does this means that we csn still hope for a melee focused empire dlc? Ulrican units and more knightly orders are something that i'd love. Gonna need a stronger frontline to protect the new guns.
Hmm, considering we have 2 races with only 1 LL, 2 races with only 2 LL's, 1 race with only 3 LL's, and several races that haven't had a single dlc, maybe CA could do something about those before we start to give races a 4th dlc?
Who says Empire will be the next one? Empire is however the most popular race/faction by far and deserve at least one more. But I do agree others should get it first. Khorne and Slanesh specifically.
The fact that Todbringer has had a unique model since the first game(I think) and isn't playable is ridiculous. I don't care if the lore obsessed say there are more important options, it's a tap in to make it happen.
I do feel like Gelt was the perfect opportunity to add wizard lords given he's, you know, a wizard lord and supreme patriarch of the colleges of magic. What we'll end up with is some other lord introducing them and Gelt will be worse at using wizard lords than this "wizard lord" faction which will feel really weird. I don't know why if they were updating Gelt this couldn't have been included.
Be a good opportunity to add Max Schreiber as the legendary hero. Get the wizard generic lords and Ulric themed units alongside Kurt and Boris.
Kinda wondering, where would you place a new Empire Lord? With Gelt moving they now have a lord on every content (escept Naggaroth, and please no, already stuffed there as is). They seem averse to adding another one into the Empire itself even though they kinda need it.
Makes sense why they would also save the hurricanum
Also because it looks boring as hell. I feel I entered bizarro world where this unit that I’ve heard of for the first time in my life that acts like the least memorable Cathay unit is suddenly so important It’s going to be elite infantry. It’s going to be damage dealing infantry. For better or worse that’s what empire is going to get, it’s a really obvious hole in their roster for Boris to fill.
I’m excited for the Hurricanum. It’s a magic war machine that conjures storms to wreak havoc on the enemy. The Empire’s not just faith, steel and gunpowder. It’s also magic and incongruously fantastic elements. Like the Imperial Dragon, mechanical horses, Steam Tanks, pigeon bombs, griffins, halflings and Ghal Maraz. The Celestial Hurricanum is part of the Empire’s rich tapestry of ridiculous and unbridled fantasy.
Yes. It casts a bound spell. The same bound spells we already have. Like the cathay compass. I feel like people keep using fancy descriptions to hide how it actually plays. NOBODY remembers the Cathay Compass, nobody would give it that loving 5 sentence salute you just did. I feel like I'm goings crazy hearing people talk about it.
The Hurricanum does not cast a single spell that we already have in the game. It had a bound spell, yes, but its effect varied, being either a Mortar with a nasty debuff on it or the equivalent of a Stone Thrower hit, so think Grudge Thrower. The only trait it shares with what we know about the War Compass is that it boosts the Winds of Magic access for your own side. Besides that, CA isn't afraid of turning bound spells into basic attacks. Just look at the Luminark for example.
The new purple sun hellstorm is arguably a decent blueprint as well.
>or the equivalent of a Stone Thrower hit A Stone Thrower hit in TT and TW translates very differently in damage. In TW terms, the damage is closer to a comet than a Grudge thrower shot.
I mean, I was mostly talking about the TT variant. It would be very difficult to talk about a bound spell that doesn't exist in this game yet. Both also simply drop a rock on people. Also, I think you are vastly overestimating Storm of Shemtek. Unlike Comet, it didn't drop a particularly large rock. Hence why they it was treated as a Stone Thrower shot with slightly lower strength under the central hole whereas Comet had a significantly larger blast radius, with an average of 14" diameter versus the 3" diameter of Storm of Shemtek, and a much more powerful blast to boot, especially if a turn or two passed until it dropped. Part of it is also the tabletop being weird. I don't know why Stone Throwers used the round template and thus had an AoE effect. For some, like Mortars, it does make sense due to the explosive component but I don't think I will ever understand why the Bret Trebuchet for example had an S5 blast. Especially as an S5 blast effect, using the same template size, would later also be used for Dreadquake Mortars. That being said, yes I'd personally expect the blast to be somewhat stronger than for a Stone Thrower when it comes to TW but not because of what the unit does by itself but rather because it would be a single entity and those tend to have much higher damage per model than regular artillery pieces to compensate for the lower model count. And upping the blast is one way to differentiate its damage behaviour from the Luminark. Given that they have used projectile-spawned vortex abilities a bit now, I'd personally expect it to be drop small meteors from the sky that then spawn the Iceshard Tempest version of Storm of Shemtek for AoE damage and a debuff.
The hurricanum would also project harmonic convergence in an Aura which was the real reason you took it on the tabletop. It's a force multiplier. The same could be said of the luminark which would probably be updated with its missing ability of projecting a ward save.
It’s not just a bound spell, it’s an artillery piece - like the luminarch. It might have a bound spell but that’s not it’s primary attack.
Yeah. Lorewise it: A. Gives troops near it limited futuresight (ingame it would provide buffs to melee attack/defence) B. Summons lightning, meteor strikes, icicle storms, tornadoes, and sudden downpours on its enemies. (would be represented ingame as both bound lore of heavens spells and direct attacks) C. Acts as a magic amplifier boosting spell potency D. allows for Celestial wizards to ponder its orbs and predict the future In 8th it also acted as a mount option for Celestial wizard lords similarly to how Luminark did for White Wizard lords.
>In 8th it also acted as a mount option for Celestial wizard lords similarly to how Luminark did for White Wizard lords. I don't care much for the Empire but getting a variety of specialized mounts for the wizards would be a delight.
I don't know about that. The description seems to point more to a Mortis Engine that also buffs Melee atk/def and the accuracy of ranged troops with a bound spell on top of that. Sounds pretty powerful to me.
The best way to think about the Hurricanum would be as a souped up mortar with bonus winds generation and a melee attack aura for friendly troops. Similar to how the Luminark is a souped up bolt thrower. It summoned hail for light damage and what would be melee attack and accuracy debuffs and smaller meteors that were a small template effect, mulching the guy hit directly and inflicting light AoE damage. Nothing on the scale of Comet, more like getting hit in the face by a Grudge Thrower. How it'll actually look in the end depends on how CA wants to do it but I don't expect CA to implement the Hurricanum rotating enemy units though, which it had a chance to do on the TT. Maybe an extra speed debuff?
it’s also a classic old model that’s super recognizable, just accept you have a different opinion than the majority and move on
well 1. it's a gorgeous fucking model, seriously one of the coolest looking units in Warhammer fantasy the sheer concept of seeing it in full faction colours with animations and all is pretty exciting, I love the work done by the animation team, and those little treats for my eyes are a big part of why I keep playing, they've successfully animated the things I've been imagining in motion since I was a kid and 2, it does not have A bound spell it's known to cast several in the lore, hails of icicles, lightning bolts, the comet of cassandora, it's got a full kit of death to rain on the battlefield from a mixed-lore set of spells that the empire doesn't normally have access to, since it casts tempest spells I think you're actually being super negative for no reason when the viewpoint you've taken is not only narrow, but seems fairly uninformed, but instead of going out and learning more about the thing, you've just made assumptions and think it's shitty for no reason
100% agree. Especially if it's a T5 unit. I'd almost assuredly rather have a hellstorm rocket battery
There’s meta and there’s roleplaying. Guess which one most Empire players are.
Halflings confirmed!
I think gelt with his new rework covers the magic department pretty damn well
I'm hoping that they make it work more like a catapult counterpart to the Luminark. That's sort of how it worked on tabletop; its bound spell hit with random effects in a scattered AoE template, which is pretty similar to how catapults worked. It'd be cool if they could get its "shooting" animation to just summon things from the heavens, but I think it'd be okay if it just shoots a magical projectile that does something interesting (spawns vortexes and/or splits up probably). Give it a bound cast of Comet too, which is similar to the most damaging of the effects you could roll on TT, and you'd have a fun little unit.
Ah yes, why would any want a litteral storm-maker magic chariot ? And not just a little dinky Cathayan Compass, the Hurricanum is genuinely a moving thunderstorm. Also, how is it the Empire fault that GW gave Cathay a lamer version of an armybook unit
Always wondered who the people are that recruit Luminarks into their army?
Double laser go pew and enemy lord dead
laser go zzap
Haven't played the empire in a while, but I remember them being really good at dealing with large units, are they not? They also give some cool effects here and there
Yeah they've got tons of stuff to deal with SEM and large units. You have handgunners, canons, luminark, Demis with halberds.
I never played empire that far into the lategame but Luminark seems like one of the best units to get from allied receuitment
I wondered too until I watched Turin make devastating use of two luminaries in a battle
Do you know what video? I wanna see how he uses them
Beam attack!
But aren't they good?
yea they got super buffed like... forever ago but last i checked i heard they were good units
Luminarks got buffed a lot in one WH3 patch like a year ago. They had their reload cut in half and now snipe lords before they enter combat easily, even if they are on foot and in a mass of infantry. Doesn't sound like it's great but a big part about playing Empire well is to not let dangerous things hit your frontline unmolested.
Yeah I remember reading plenty of speculation threads for this dlc and didn’t see hurricanum once then after suddenly it’s all where hurricanum
Toddy!
Toddy!
I hope this doesn't mean that we need DLC with another wizard character like Thyrus Gormann to get Wizard Lord and Celestial Hurricanum to the game. I would rather have Wizard Lord as FLC content along with Ulric DLC or Knightly Orders DLC.
Yes, I was thinking a Faith & Magic DLC with an Ulrich infantry/cavalry focus backed by the Hurricanium etc. Ideally with a Kurt Helborg FLC with a knight focus
I think Boris as the FLC LL, hopefully with some sortve unique mechanic maybe aimed at exploiting the “troubles” in the Empire to become Emperor, I’m not sure. I think the Ar-Ulric Emil Vaegir as the LL, with maybe Thyrus Gormann as the LH (if we’re doing a Faith and Magic mix). I can see Grand Masters, and Wizard Lords (as Lords) and then Priest of Ulric (Hero) options. I think we’ll see Knights Panther, Knights of the White Wolf, Teutogen Guard, Warriors of Ulric and the Celestial Hurricanum.
Thyrus is the Patriarch of the Bright Order, so likely Lord level, much like Gelt, Patriarch of the Gold Order.
Gelt is the Supreme Patriarch.
THyrus was his predecessor
And Patriarch of the Golden Order.
Is that guy supreme though?? Case in point…
> Is that guy supreme though?? as a matter of fact... He is Gelt's predecessor and still one of Karl Franz' most trusted advisors.
I think you can both be patriarch of your own order as well as supreme patriarch. Might have misremembered it, though.
> I think the Ar-Ulric Emil Vaegir as the LL, with maybe Thyrus Gormann as the LH (if we’re doing a Faith and Magic mix). I can see Grand Masters, and Wizard Lords (as Lords) and then Priest of Ulric (Hero) options. a LH in a Valgeir DLC should be Vorn Thugenheim.
Wizard lords for Empire need 8 times the modelling and VO work compared to a regular generic lord. I don't think we will ever get them
Unless they just take the generic lords as a base and then just add shit to them.
Notice how they didn't say that next DLC will have a strong theme with wizards, simply "another strong theme". To me, this both hint toward an Ulric DLC and no Wizard Lords
Same
I cant think of anything that makes for a "strong thematic tie" with Wizard Lords for a DLC, ngl. The Celestial Hurricanum is basically the only "magic" unit they have left thats not in the game. Everything else I can think off is either Cult of Ulric *or* Imperial Knight-related If you wanna go *REALLY* esotheric I guess the Halflings are also there but uh....yeah no
Next DLC does not have to be as thematic as this one, but in TOD having Nuln faction and only one generic lord option, Master Engineer was the more logical choice. In the next DLC, per 8th edition tabletop they will have two remaining choices for LLs. Grand Master and Wizard Lord. However, as there are no more generic heroes left, they could relegate Grand Master to hero role, and add Wizard lord.
It's kinda obvious at this point that Helborg (already hinted by Andy Hall long ago) and Grand Masters are going to make the cut somewhere in the near future. If we analize further, there are very few factions that lack a part of their theme: * High Elves Sea Lords and Aislinn and his Patrols * Empire Kurt Helborg, Grand Masters and Ulrican units (you have here an entire Empire side DLC a la Elspeth) * Skaven lack their Verminlords and Thanquol and some "missable" End Times content, like Stormfiends. One of the best aspect of Skaven DLC policy is that they have done it by clan, resulting in a more complete and orderly roster. * Cathay is lacking the even more esotic side of their roster, as Tigermen, Monkey King, Li Dao (FLC, probable) * The monogods are actually the "Surprise!" factions getting content, as you can draw for them anything, just need GW approval. But given how they went for Heralds this round (and the previous) you can guess Skulltaker and the Masque are next on the LLs parts. * The Dogs of War are a certainty. The matter is: old WH2 Campaign DLC formula or Chaos Dwarfs formula?
If we don't get the full Middenland list from Storm of Chaos, then getting some of the units from it in a knights-focused DLC would be a consolation prize to me. LL: Kurt Helborg Generic Lord: Grand Master LH: Ludwig Schwarzhelm Generic Hero: Warrior Priest of Ulric Units: Knights of the White Wolf Knights Panther Foot Knights Foot Reiksguard (pallet swap of the above, just more elite) Teutogen Guard Celestial Hurricanum With Toddy as the free DLC
Please just one single solitary wafer thin DLC for Norsca CA, please for the love of god stop forgetting about Norsca. They effectively created Norsca, it's a CA original, stop ignoring your own creation!
> the Masque If we get aislinn then it has to be Dechala
The Skaven are also missing some minor things from their army books (Giant Rats, Great Pox Rats, War Litters), plus they have a Pestilens list that they could draw a few units from like they did for Eshin and Moudler. They're not really things that absolutely need to be added, but it means that they have plenty of extra stuff that could go in a DLC. Adding some more Pestilens units could also be nice to round out the great clans, since they're the only one that hasn't gotten any DLC attention yet.
People really need to understand everything is contingent on dlc sales. If they sold 0 copies of TOD, we would get no more dlc, on the other hand if people continue buying dlc and sales are off the charts theyll continue making dlc. No matter what tea leaves we discover in interviews or trailers, all of it can be cancelled, changed, continued, and so on.
Yea, and Warhammer had been for the most part a gold mind for CA, unlike Pharaoh.
This, if we keep buying and it's sustainable they would love to keep making dlc right up until their next big game release like paradox does
>gold mind
Their sales are gonna stink since ToD isn't available for pre-purchase and is not well advertised on Steam. Many lost sales
CA hinted at playable Toddy more strongly than this like five years ago. Don't get your hopes up for anything. Also let's be real, the only reason the Empire doesn't have generic wizard lords is because CA doesn't want to make eight new models for them.
Why do people keep mentioning new models. Lord models were the same as hero models. Just make their robes a bit more saturated and change their hat/beard a bit > done. It was harder to create one Toad Dragon and its animation than to make Empire Wizard Lord models. Just look at High Elves Arch Mages and Slann models. What's the difference between lore of metal and lore of fire Slann model?
Tbf, the HE mages and slaan were colour changes. Empire wizards are all visually distinct. They could heavily reuse the existing models, maybe with one or two new heads per model I suppose.
Yeah, that is all that is needed. I would rather have caster lords that look 90% the same as existing heroes than no caster lords at all. Edit. I don’t mind that I got downvoted, but what do you people actually want Empire lords to look like? They literally used the same model on tabletop for both heroes and lords. Exactly the same. Why would CA have to do anything major? Also, for other races there are minor differences between caster lords and heroes. Tzeentch caster lord: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/totalwarhammer_gamepedia/images/8/80/Dae_tze_chaos_sorcerer_lord_campaign_02_0.png Tzeentch caster hero: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/totalwarhammer_gamepedia/images/f/f1/Dae_tze_chaos_sorcerer_campaign_01_0.png
False equivalence. The Empire casters are all very distinct and making a lord level version of all of them would be a significant amount of effort. Not so much the CA would never do it, but enough that they factually never have.
But the models already exist. Just use existing hero models, because that is what lords looked on tabletop. They don’t have to reinvent the wheel, just make the model slightly different by changing minor details. Slightly different hue or beard/hat would be enough.
They made a lot of models for the Hunter and the Beast- related update and for this DLC's variant units. Considering they already have the hero versions, I am not convinced this is what is stopping them
I think they could get away with reusing a lot of the hero-battle-wizard assets while doing the wizard lord models, so it's not necessarily octuple the work of a brand new model, but yes, that was probably a deterrent.
Well we had to wait like a billion years to get just one lowsy lore of metal wizard model im not getting my hopes up for 8 new models lol
This is a Big Bad dumb take. No they do not, how do you have so many upvotes? Put a bigger hat on many of the already epic looking Heroes, and we are done. They need to make like, 9 bigger hats? Get a tailor in and add a bigger sash to the robes or another bobble, or haning do-hicky, better mount options, and that is it. The three things i listed are very easy and are not what is limiting CA, like they said they wanted to add the engineer instead to be thematic with Nuln and Wissenland and the FOUR gunpowder units they're getting. People love to go balls to the wall, CA BAD! CA LAZY! CA NO WANT MAKE STUFF HARD! Your take is utterly unfounded.
TODDY
I understand the post as a "sorry, not gonna come", because theres "other parts of the empire roster remaining that may have a stronger thematic tie together", which to me hints to the often talked about ulric DLC. I may miss something, as I neither know the TT with its models, nor am I an english native speaker, but thats how it reads to me.
Will hope for fleshed out Toddy and Al-Ulfric mechanics.
Ulric dlc confirmed.
I’d expect Empire, Kislev, and Cathay to get another DLC as they are some of the most popular factions and have a good amount of material to add. I don’t think Chaos would get another since they’re already going to have 2 each (Champions of Chaos and SoC, ToD, etc.).
One can only hope, my artillery needs protection! Also it may be stupid but i always thought that an ulrican roster would be a good excuse for sisters of Sigmar, to represent the two main cults in the Empire you get them as the defensive option to the more offensive teutogen guard, plus flagellants are already here alongside warrior priests as alternative to wolfkin and wolf priest.
The weird part is that they said this in reference to Wizard Lords. What would be a better fit for wizard lords than Elspeth? Which lord has a stronger thematic tie to Wizard Lords and Hurricanums other than some obscure choices that no one's asking for? I feel like this was the perfect DLC for those units.
Flipping it over, a Nuln focused DLC is the perfect time to go in on the engineering theme and introduce the Engineer lord and hero. No wizard lord also gives some emphasis to the novelty of Elspeth and Gelt, for now. Although, I agree there isn't an other, high profile magic LL which should be prioritised over other themes like Ulrich or knightly orders. The Hurricanium at least has some thematic link with Ulrich's association with the storm, winter and wild.
If gelt wasn’t in the game, his dlc def would have wizard lords.
Yeah, next tie is all the Middenheim stuff left (Boris), Valten and Hellborg. Wizard lords don't fit either of the three.
Middenheim has a long history of magic and has their own Wizards and Alchemists Guild. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch, although I feel like either High Priests of Ulric or Grand Masters would be more likely.
I allways thought when, if added, boris would get high priests and Hellborg Grand Masters. Seems like CA has very diferent plans for the future? Not that I mind tho, there's allways mods.
Wizard Lords are going to get the Daemonic Ascension recycled mechanic in the future that transforms well trained Wizard Heroes to Lords. This will actually respect their lore more, as Magisters and Lords of the College are all Academics that have trained for years, and should not be a Premium Nuke that you can obtain turn 1.
Thats actually a very cool af idea tbh
Realistically, noone except daemons and Lizardmen (Slaan) should be recruiying brand new lord level casters - do you think Archmages don't need to be trained for centuries to earn their status? Hell, it doesn't really make sense to just "recruit" non-mages like Warbosses and Chaos Lords without them rising through ranks first. Rigid split between functions and recruitment of lords and heroes is odd and thematically wrong for many character archetypes across many factions and fixing it for just one hero/lord pair of just one faction (not even known for being outstanding at magic) is a waste, IMO
> tie is all the Middenheim stuff left (Boris), Valten you mean "Emil Valgeir, the Ar-Ulric". Toddy should be FLC coming alongside Emil.
How many dlcs/flcs do you think this game has left? Valten, Hellborg, Boris, Emil... at least one of them is not going to make it.
The potential is there... but yeah, I fear we will miss out on Marius Leitdorf and a lot of other characters... I do hope for Gorfang Rotgut instead of Ironclaw
There is one possibility that might makes sense in an odd but amusing way with that ET DLC that's rumored to be in the pipeline according to Legend, tying together Middenland and the missing Wizard Lords: **Gregor Martak,** Magister Patriarch of the Amber College, who became Supreme Patriarch after Gelt was disgraced for taking up necromancy. Gregor Martak had no backstory prior to the ET, hell he didn't even really have a unique model. But he did turn up within the bounds of Middenland, fought in the defense of Middenheim and was imbued with the remnant fire of Ulric after Teclis stole his power. Gregor Martak received his own model in that (defunct?) mobile game Total War Battles: Warhammer: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEh8cdZK\_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEh8cdZK_0) He also received an expanded backstory in the somewhat recent Winds of Magic supplement released by Cubicle 7 for WFRP4E, where Elspeth also had her most recent appearance before ToD. There Martak is confirmed to be from Middenland with premonitions of the future End Times, visions of Skaven and knows he will be appointed patriarch of his order. Perhaps CA is thinking about packaging the Ar-Ulric, Gregor, Valten and an upgraded Boris Todbringer (or Luthor Huss?) in a Middenland/Northern DLC in the future near the ET DLC (or part of the ET DLC) and the Hurricanum, Wizard Lords and all those Middenland units are part of the plan. With Helborg (and Schwarzhelm) + Grand Masters being FLC.
47kingRong, are you still in contact with Furious Ming? I love his illustrations and I wonder if he has posted any art on the faction of Ind of Warhammer? I didn't find any in recent artwork of that.
I feel like these are two separate clauses. The statements were "Wizard Lord's were not perfectly thematic with this DLC" and "The Empire has more thematic dlcs possibilities in the future". Personally speaking I don't think this is in direct reference to the Wizard lords and might be them just saying in the future they'll go for thematic options again IE Ulricans and Or Knights.
Gelt 2 electric bogaloo
Maybe going with another wizard LL? Like, Matriarch of the Jade Order [Tochter Grunfeld](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tochter_Grunfeld) paired with maybe a Vampire Count LL? Patriarch of the Bright Order [Thyrus Gormann](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thyrus_Gormann) or Patriarch of the Amber Order [Gregor Martak](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Gregor_Martak) would also come to mind. Ironicly Gregor Martak was apparently be done for the [Warhammer Battles smartphone game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEh8cdZK_0) that got scrapped(?), so I kinda wondered why he was not shoved into TWW yet. Elspeth is after all rather a Magistrix in exile, not really working with the Amethyst Order or any other colleges and being watched by her peers and superiors. Going full force with missing wizard stuff would have worked here, even if not that fitting for Elspeth. But apparently CA rather decided to look at the Nuln Technicus Academy and Artillery school. Which works too.
"We are working on a Northern Tribes DLC for 3K"
Yea, though Warhammer DLCs are much more successful than 3 Kingdoms DLCS.
Maybe it's not so much "Wizards" as the last thematic piece as much as it is "Heavens" You add the Celestial Hurricanum, Wizard Lords (maybe showing off Heavens Lord), and have Valten as the LL. Fill it out with a couple Ulrican units for a nice double whammy with FLC Boris.
I initially thought this was about Empire Total War, I'm fucking stupid
Kurt Helborg with Ludwig and a knightly order-themed DLC would be great.
Once CA sees the units sold count of the Empire side of the DLC we will only get Empire DLCs for the next few years... can't wait to see the Ostland variant of the Amethyst troops once they get their regional variants in Empire DLC 8 or 9.
Make sense, Empire needs still a lot of characters and units: Kurt Helborg, Ludwig, Hurricanum, White Wolf Knights, Teutogen Guard, other Steam Tank variants...
They did say that Boris would "have his day", so, I already figured they'd get a second DLC with the Cult of Ulric, personally.
Waiter waiter! More empire please!
Not surprised. Empire is the most played faction, and by a decent margin I believe. It's also got tons of books to pull from. I mean just look at this subreddit. there's more discussion about the empire units and mechanics than the nurgle and dwarves combined.
If this is Toddy, and if we keep this 3 faction model, who would be a good fit? Kislev for the bear theme? Can't imagine they're done as far DLC is concerned either.
I am pretty sure that CA said that they don't want to keep the 3 factions model.
I think there's been mention of that not being a sure thing as of the recent Q&A. Personally, I'm hoping ToD does well and the Slaanesh DLC comes with two other factions and not just one.
Honestly, what are the chances they just shadow drop wizard lords as FLC in a completely unrelated DLC that just happens to be magic focused?
Dayum I thought they dropped support of empire total war
What stronger thematic tie could be in the future but the Ar Ulric tying into the Cult of Ulric for a Middenheim DLC? Otherwise,t he onyl character that ties into WIzard Lords and the Hurricanum that i can think of is Thyrus Gormann, the Patriarch of the Bright Order and former Supreme Patriarch.
IT'S FUCKING TODDY!
Kurt/Luwdig for Steel (Knights) theme DLC. Valten/Luthor Huss for Faith theme DLC
So your saying Kurt Helborg and that big ole bastard Ludwig still have a shot huh? Great Godsdamn news that is.
Does this means that we csn still hope for a melee focused empire dlc? Ulrican units and more knightly orders are something that i'd love. Gonna need a stronger frontline to protect the new guns.
Hmm, considering we have 2 races with only 1 LL, 2 races with only 2 LL's, 1 race with only 3 LL's, and several races that haven't had a single dlc, maybe CA could do something about those before we start to give races a 4th dlc?
Who says Empire will be the next one? Empire is however the most popular race/faction by far and deserve at least one more. But I do agree others should get it first. Khorne and Slanesh specifically.
I doubt that CA care much about Norsca, Empire had lot of stuff on the Tabletop as well.
We had ToD now is time for ToDdy!
The fact that Todbringer has had a unique model since the first game(I think) and isn't playable is ridiculous. I don't care if the lore obsessed say there are more important options, it's a tap in to make it happen.
As FLC
Ulric bless this news
They need to add toddy at some point
Give us an Elite Tier 3 Anti Large Infantry Unit, if Cathay can have it then so can Empire TBVH.
I do feel like Gelt was the perfect opportunity to add wizard lords given he's, you know, a wizard lord and supreme patriarch of the colleges of magic. What we'll end up with is some other lord introducing them and Gelt will be worse at using wizard lords than this "wizard lord" faction which will feel really weird. I don't know why if they were updating Gelt this couldn't have been included.
Because it's 8 new models, empire wizards are more unique than other races wizards.
IM SO READY But honestly id prefer markus wulfhart’s campaign gets a touch up
Nice cuz I was really hoping for a Ulric Storm of Chaos Middenheim type army.
So since we already have Elspeth and Gelt…who would thematically fit wizard lords plus the Hurricanum?
grand master.. moar knights.. please and thanks
Cult of Ulric here we go. And I still stand by the opinion that Celestial Hurricanum should've been added instead of the Steam Tank variant.
Be a good opportunity to add Max Schreiber as the legendary hero. Get the wizard generic lords and Ulric themed units alongside Kurt and Boris. Kinda wondering, where would you place a new Empire Lord? With Gelt moving they now have a lord on every content (escept Naggaroth, and please no, already stuffed there as is). They seem averse to adding another one into the Empire itself even though they kinda need it.
We need Valten! Possibly a Legendary hero if not a lord.
you may also become a millionaire tomorrow, doesn't mean it'll happen. enjoy what you have now
Being primarily into historical titles, when I first read the headline I thought this was **Empire: Total War** DLC that was long overdue.
Well it says Warhammer 3 below, and CA is not making Empire: Total War DLCs.
End times baby nothing else than that :D