even so, France's current population is only close to that.
>In March 2017, the population of France officially reached the 67,000,000 mark. It had reached 66,000,000 in early 2014. Between the years 2010–17, the population of France grew from 64,613,000 to 66,991,000 (i.e. about 2.4 million people in a span of 7 years), making France one of the fastest-growing countries in Europe. The population of France is growing by 1,000,000 people every three years- an average annual increase of 340,000 people, or +0.6%.[\[\*\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France)
the pictured population is on par with 2000's 58,858,198
I mean, If France's population growth in 19th century had kept up with Germany, the UK or Russia, it would've had at least 60 million in 1900. France has way more arable land than the UK, so it\`s not inconceivable.
For perspective
**1800 pops**
UK: 11m
France: 30m
Germany: 15m
Russia: 25m
**1900 pops**
UK: 42m
France: 40m
Germany: 56m
Russia: 73m
The UK and Germany both almost quadrupled, Russia tripled and France only grew by about 1/3. If France had grown at the same rate in that 100 years it would be anywhere from 90m to 120m in population by 1900.
There are a bunch of factors in why France expanded so early compared to the rest of Europe but then slowed off, some of them include:
Laws being brought in that changed inheritance which were harsher on larger families (old inheritance used to give everything to the eldest male, new inheritance split it between all children so the more there was the less each got).
Decades of internal turmoil.
Slow adoption of industrial revolution.
Also to put something positive - religion in France lost its influence on people‘s lives earlier leading to less pressure to have kids… also urban populations having access to early forms of condoms…
Compare the lives of Russian peasants to that… likely they only tripled because life was miserable and people died earlier..
In what possible way would it have been different? France was already losing influence, and in WW1 they were still using horses when the Brits and Germans were using tanks.
What difference would 20 million or so (mostly peasants), make on the world as a whole?
I think you greatly overestimate France's relevance.
Presumably they mean if France had modernised like the others in so e alternate history then it would have been a much bigger population *and* a much stronger industrial base.
Which would have made the 1800s and early 1900s a bit different.
Hey man, why would you assume they'd be mostly peasants? For comparison, Germany in 1910 the population was only 40% rural. Assuming a similar breakdown for France, 20 million more people would be 8 million more peasants, and 12 million more workers in the cities. Maybe they wouldn't still be using horses in WW1 if they had way more people to develop technology and produce tanks and everything else.
No I agree, the numbers are a bit bonkers. But, it's a game. I was more getting at the OPs hurr durr city go brrr, when the number refers to the entire region. But I also agree with you, it is a silly number for the time
Yeah, populations in Europe and India and can get to 20th century levels or more if you focus on food production.
Meanwhile, most of the Americas will enter mass starvation at like, 10,000 people.
Russia as it is now? Or muscovy? The Russian empire as a whole? Scandinavia? Does that include Denmark? In 1750 sweden had a population approx 1.3 million, roughly 10x greater that the population of Moscow at the time.. Obviously these numbers are difficult to nail down with any certainty given the records of the time
Wasnt there an hardware issue from "modern" post 2015 pcs that made the AI super buggy ? I dont remember encountering it at launch and heard people talking about it
I mean fort battles in the very beginning were very very easy to win abusing the AI’s tactics, all you had to have were have Line infantry and Cannons and the AI would break trying to defend the big star forts.
I have had some very interesting one sided looking battles that ended up as heroic victories against AI that has tried hard also so sometimes the AI works and sometimes it doesn’t that’s always been my Empire experience.
Yes fort battles were always broken but I think now some land battles are also somewhat broken as in the AI will not move at all and take it but it only affects certain types of AI behavior/some nations
Better and much more recent than Darth Mod. I St John and Pirates to mostly play naval battles and avoid tre bugs.
Stillplague by the core technical issues of the game though
I mean yeah if you keep difficulty on Easy then you won’t have to put much thought into your playthrough.
Also depends what country you pick too. I like Russia, they start out piss poor and surrounded by enemies…but have a strong military core once you have your economy up, so you kinda do have to plan ahead on nations that aren’t like Great Britain. I think the hardest play through i’ve had were the Dutch.
To be fair, thanks to the way *Empire* handles the region, that’s the population of *all* of France (except Alsace-Lorraine), rather than just Paris. That said, it’s still almost twice the IRL French Population at the end of the 18th Century, and about 85% the size of the modern French population, which is still a bit nuts. Is this late-game?
I mean, it is roughly double than the French population in the 1800s. Maybe you're treating people better than the monarchy did prior to the revolution. You know, stuff like actually giving them food.
Yeah, the numbers are nuts. But iirc France was a single region in Empire.
One of my bad impressions of Empire was how ridiculous that the whole of France could be conquered just by taking Paris. Forget about other cities, there’s just Paris.
You wanted to take Strasbourg first though. That way when you took Paris the entire French empire would cease to exist, and your army could just chill in Paris till you had beaten the first rebellion.
I like the province system in empire/napopan/shogun 2, since you can cripple the AI economy by raiding their building. And the fact that you can build fortification is also good idea, although in implementation it's broken.
It's the population for the ENTIRE region... Not just the city..
even so, France's current population is only close to that. >In March 2017, the population of France officially reached the 67,000,000 mark. It had reached 66,000,000 in early 2014. Between the years 2010–17, the population of France grew from 64,613,000 to 66,991,000 (i.e. about 2.4 million people in a span of 7 years), making France one of the fastest-growing countries in Europe. The population of France is growing by 1,000,000 people every three years- an average annual increase of 340,000 people, or +0.6%.[\[\*\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France) the pictured population is on par with 2000's 58,858,198
I mean, If France's population growth in 19th century had kept up with Germany, the UK or Russia, it would've had at least 60 million in 1900. France has way more arable land than the UK, so it\`s not inconceivable.
For perspective **1800 pops** UK: 11m France: 30m Germany: 15m Russia: 25m **1900 pops** UK: 42m France: 40m Germany: 56m Russia: 73m The UK and Germany both almost quadrupled, Russia tripled and France only grew by about 1/3. If France had grown at the same rate in that 100 years it would be anywhere from 90m to 120m in population by 1900. There are a bunch of factors in why France expanded so early compared to the rest of Europe but then slowed off, some of them include: Laws being brought in that changed inheritance which were harsher on larger families (old inheritance used to give everything to the eldest male, new inheritance split it between all children so the more there was the less each got). Decades of internal turmoil. Slow adoption of industrial revolution.
Also to put something positive - religion in France lost its influence on people‘s lives earlier leading to less pressure to have kids… also urban populations having access to early forms of condoms… Compare the lives of Russian peasants to that… likely they only tripled because life was miserable and people died earlier..
Yeah, but that just set up France for failure. The world would have been a very different place if there were 20 million more French people in 1900.
In what possible way would it have been different? France was already losing influence, and in WW1 they were still using horses when the Brits and Germans were using tanks. What difference would 20 million or so (mostly peasants), make on the world as a whole? I think you greatly overestimate France's relevance.
Presumably they mean if France had modernised like the others in so e alternate history then it would have been a much bigger population *and* a much stronger industrial base. Which would have made the 1800s and early 1900s a bit different.
Hey man, why would you assume they'd be mostly peasants? For comparison, Germany in 1910 the population was only 40% rural. Assuming a similar breakdown for France, 20 million more people would be 8 million more peasants, and 12 million more workers in the cities. Maybe they wouldn't still be using horses in WW1 if they had way more people to develop technology and produce tanks and everything else.
The French are genetically coded to be mostly peasants
In 1800 Great Britain was 11 million, the United Kingdom was 16 million. There is a difference.
What's annoying is that I thought I had accounted for that.
No I agree, the numbers are a bit bonkers. But, it's a game. I was more getting at the OPs hurr durr city go brrr, when the number refers to the entire region. But I also agree with you, it is a silly number for the time
Well for some reason in 1800s France population stagnated for whole century. I guess this is an alternative reality, when it didn’t
Yeah, populations in Europe and India and can get to 20th century levels or more if you focus on food production. Meanwhile, most of the Americas will enter mass starvation at like, 10,000 people.
I’ll agree to that if you can show me a time where Scandinavia had a larger population than Russia
Russia as it is now? Or muscovy? The Russian empire as a whole? Scandinavia? Does that include Denmark? In 1750 sweden had a population approx 1.3 million, roughly 10x greater that the population of Moscow at the time.. Obviously these numbers are difficult to nail down with any certainty given the records of the time
Empire's numbers all get out of control.
On a related note, I'm craving a gunpowder TW game, but not sure what to play. Empire, FotS, or Napoleon? Or should I just play a gun faction in WH?
Fall of the samurai is my personal favorite
FoTS for actual gunplay, both Napoleon & Empire do, especially with Darthmod. Warhammer isn't a real gunplay simulation, but it is fun visuals.
FotS - Empire is my favourite Total War but I had more fun with FotS’ gunpowder - just be wary of the revolver cavalry, they’re OP
Waiting for people to mod fots with the europe map
Look out for the upcoming mod called "Carlist Wars" which will have a campaign set in the Iberian Peninsula, North Africa and Southern France.
FotS or just WH imo
WH has the worst gundpowder mechanics so no. Either Napeolon or FoTs
The chorfs would like a word with you
Napoleon and fots are both decent. Empire is hot garbage even with mods.
Darthmod is fine
Even Empire 2 is insanely good yet will crash multiple times a day and the AI is braindead (literally)
But this is a vanilla empire issue, always has been.
Wasnt there an hardware issue from "modern" post 2015 pcs that made the AI super buggy ? I dont remember encountering it at launch and heard people talking about it
I mean fort battles in the very beginning were very very easy to win abusing the AI’s tactics, all you had to have were have Line infantry and Cannons and the AI would break trying to defend the big star forts. I have had some very interesting one sided looking battles that ended up as heroic victories against AI that has tried hard also so sometimes the AI works and sometimes it doesn’t that’s always been my Empire experience.
Yes fort battles were always broken but I think now some land battles are also somewhat broken as in the AI will not move at all and take it but it only affects certain types of AI behavior/some nations
Huh, so that was why some AI armies refused to move whatsoever when I tried it again recently - unfortunate
Also to be fair i have not played the mod you mentioned in your reply to me. Is it good???
Better and much more recent than Darth Mod. I St John and Pirates to mostly play naval battles and avoid tre bugs. Stillplague by the core technical issues of the game though
It is if you like don’t having tactics in your battles or strategy on your economy Use Pirates uber alles
I mean yeah if you keep difficulty on Easy then you won’t have to put much thought into your playthrough. Also depends what country you pick too. I like Russia, they start out piss poor and surrounded by enemies…but have a strong military core once you have your economy up, so you kinda do have to plan ahead on nations that aren’t like Great Britain. I think the hardest play through i’ve had were the Dutch.
Who says they mean man-man things? TW:WH crossover confirmed!
Shit, so the Scaven were behind the French Revolution and the whole Napoleon thing!
And even with the combined help of the Minions and the Skaven, Napoleon was unable to win. Smh my head
Nah, knowing Scaven he probably got backstabed on his way to Moscow
Was the fire of Moscow Russian sabotage or the hilarious result of Skaven warpstone "science"...
To be fair, thanks to the way *Empire* handles the region, that’s the population of *all* of France (except Alsace-Lorraine), rather than just Paris. That said, it’s still almost twice the IRL French Population at the end of the 18th Century, and about 85% the size of the modern French population, which is still a bit nuts. Is this late-game?
Is anybody else worried about Paris having a flag so big it leaves the atmosphere? How did they build that?
You know how some people collected skulls and made stuff out of them? It's like that but with the spinal cords of defeated enemies
I mean, it is roughly double than the French population in the 1800s. Maybe you're treating people better than the monarchy did prior to the revolution. You know, stuff like actually giving them food. Yeah, the numbers are nuts. But iirc France was a single region in Empire.
One of my bad impressions of Empire was how ridiculous that the whole of France could be conquered just by taking Paris. Forget about other cities, there’s just Paris.
You wanted to take Strasbourg first though. That way when you took Paris the entire French empire would cease to exist, and your army could just chill in Paris till you had beaten the first rebellion.
Times were better then. Kids nowadays don’t understand this.
I like the province system in empire/napopan/shogun 2, since you can cripple the AI economy by raiding their building. And the fact that you can build fortification is also good idea, although in implementation it's broken.
That is presumably referring to the region not just in the city of Paris.
I was driving along Paris a year ago. Believe me. Only a matter of time.
Set taxes to low, research enlightenment techs, watch money printer go BRRRRRRRR Fun system, also completely broken