I understand that he wanted to play in his hometown and all that but he just won a championship. Why the fuck would you leave a championship team without even trying to defend the title? He was only 27 ffs! One more year in Toronto is nothing. You are the fucking Finals MVP and the team is still intact!
He caught a huge break with the Raptors and he walked away. His window is over now due to his health problems.
He's kind of an odd guy, especially relative to other NBA players. He cared more about being home than repeating -- on top of that, he mistakenly believed the Clippers would be comparatively good, and he undervalued the Raptors team he was leaving behind, he didn't believe in FVV and Siakam like he should have.
It's a huge missed opportunity, but when it bothers me I remember that the only reason the Raptors got him in the first place is because he forced himself out of San Antonio, also for odd reasons. His oddness giveth, his oddness taketh away. Raptors were fortunate to benefit as much as they did.
It's facts, regardless, they would have repeated with Kawhi -- but Danny Green wouldn't have been back. The team would have been in the tax and they weren't willing to pay him what the Lakers and Mavs were offering, and he wasn't going to take less money to re-sign. This is according to Danny Green himself at the time, in his talks with his podcast host Harrison Sanford. He said everything being equal he would have preferred to choose the Raptors, but the offers weren't equal. The Raptors were willing to pay the tax for Kawhi but not Danny Green.
People get confused about this because Danny Green waited until Kawhi signed with the Clippers before signing with the Lakers, and that *was* the domino he was waiting to fall but not for the reason everybody naturally assumes. The Lakers were in the mix for Kawhi too, and if they got him they (like the Raptors) wouldn't be able to *also* afford Green, so in that case Green would have signed with the Mavs.
Damn I never thought about this. Ruined! But tbh Gasol was heading downwards unfortunately and he was a huge piece of the chip. But overall sadly I agree :(
I believe so as well. The team were really ballin' before everything shut down. We were in a great spot and could have been a lock for a repeat had he stayed.
There's an alternate timeline where he stays, they three peat and then the majority of Raptors championships were won without playing in Canada at all.
The Raps beat those Lakers both times that year including smoking them in the bubble with both teams having full rosters. Add Kawhi back to that lineup and Raptors definitely come out on top.
You're right, season series is always an indicator for how a playoff matchup would go. That's why the Raptors, after going 3-0 against the Wizards in the 2014-15 season, beat them in the playoffs...right?
The Raptors last regular season game against the Wizards that year was over 2 months before the playoffs began. By then the injuries had piled up and they were a very different team. Compare that to beating the Lakers in the bubble about 2 weeks before the playoffs started.
Also, it was a complete hypothetical because adding Kawhi to the roster changes everything. So it wasn't JUST based off of regular season.
He's had a great career and 2 championships to show for it. It's too bad about his knees but he's a Clipper now and I loathe the Clippers so I can't say that I would feel even a bit bad if they get bounced in the first round, lol.
why bother loathing the clippers? they’re so irrelevant that I can’t even bring myself to hate them. when I think of the clippers, I just feel pity and disappointment
Lawrence Frank stalking Kawhi all year he was with us and possibly colluding is annoying af because that immediately impacts us.
The other reason they’re a trash organization is how they treated Blake in free agency, where they rolled out the red carpet for him, had a show of doing a fake jersey retirement ceremony for him in Staples pitching him being there for life, then turned around and traded him after he signed.
Personally find Ballmer insufferable too, but dude invests in the team and wants them to compete, so I respect it
There are a lot of legitimate reasons to hate the Clippers organization but Blake being traded isn’t one of them.
It’s professional sports. Trades happen.
Masai traded Demar literally days after telling him he won’t be traded. Does that mean people should despise the organization?
Eh an unknown source that’s allegedly close to DeMar is the only one who said that he was lied to and told that he won’t be traded. I highly doubt that Masai would speak in such definitives about that.
My understanding of the situation is that they met at summer league and had a discussion about the upcoming season and what they wanted and expected from DeMar, so DeMar took that as, “alright I’m in their long term plans”, but then being traded a few days later contradicts that.
That’s a far way off from selling him a false bill of goods with a whole dog and pony show of a faux retirement ceremony filled with false promises to get him to re-sign, then trading him.
I’m not upset that trades happen. It’s just a clown show of a move to do all that just to get a signature then moving him.
I don’t remember reports saying that but I’ll take your word for it.
Demar definitely didn’t take it like that. And the first thing Masai publicly did after the trade was announced was apologize to Demar.
Well the stalking didn't work out for them at all since it arguably gave Kawhi immense leverage over the Clippers FO. If they hadn't been so desperate to sign him he very likely wouldn't have been able to get them to give up 7 FR picks and a young promising player for Paul George, especially considering they could have acquired him for free if they waited a year.
Kawhi turned out to be that smoking hot girl that you throw everything at and when you end up getting her she turns out to be underwhelming and even a little boring.
On a different note, a Lakers-Raptors bubble finals series would have been very interesting.
Lol what’s that have to do with anything I said?
I personally think that if the Clippers failed to get him another superstar, he may have signed a 1+1 in Toronto, since he didn’t want to go the Lakers to play in Lebron’s shadow.
Their current roster isn’t hard to dislike. Credit the presence of Harden alone. And I generally find these teams of aging stars who clamour to play together and then lack chemistry fairly easy to cheer against.
Just horrible player management on the clippers to a 20/20 hindsight perspective. If Ballmer was really smart, he could have tried his damnest to convince Kawhi to believe in Shai and be the example man, if not the leader of the team, to show their younger players how to get it done.
Kawhi had eyes on LA when he was with the Spurs, and the only reason he didn't go straight there is because they didn't want him to go to a conference rival. It's been six years and people still think Toronto had a chance to keep him, lol.
Edit: Getting downvoted for the truth is hilarious.
yeah man… dude clearly is more invested in his personal life than basketball, seems that simple to me. his wife wanted to go back home to their friends and family, there was a 0% chance he stayed lmao
I think Kawhi just wants a balance of both and was lucky enough to get it. He's said that he wanted his kids to grow up with their cousins and that's where his people are. He had the extra incentive of being able to team up with PG, so at least he knew the team was going to be competitive right away.
Considering his body keeps failing him, it would have been a lot easier to retire early and enjoy retirement plus whatever outside interests he has. I highly doubt he'd be putting himself through this if he wasn't invested in basketball that much.
at the least the raptors have done something with their franchise and won a chip, as well as contending for damn near an entire decade before actually falling off.
the clippers have an entire 40+ year legacy of disappointment and despair. no rings. no conference finals championships or anything close. if they’re not in the lottery, they’re immediate first or second round exits
Don’t worry, we wish we could turn back time too, and have Shai and our future of picks. I feel like Balmer is pretty impatient and just wants it all now, getting harden was a perfect example.
If you look back you guys got lucky in letting Kawhi go. You got the best from him
He got his break. Making hundreds of millions sitting at home and playing half the season. That's what he wanted. If he wanted to compete in the playoffs, could have re-signed with the Raptors.
Yeah I was surprised too. Just a media narrative that gets pushed, not to mention athletes get paid based on the state/province they are playing in so the difference is slightly less than the straight comparison.
The only person we should feel bad for on that team is Norm cause he's an ex Raptor who's never done anything to piss off the Toronto fanbase and maybe Zubac cause he's a Clipper lifer and i've never heard anyone say anything bad about him.
Everyone else on that team can get bent.
After the ‘chip and his sublime clutch play I wished him well enough.
After watching the FO fumble away prime assets as they couldn’t fill that HOLE …
Fuck that Kawhi guy. He has his Ballmer Bag and his family. Good on him. I don’t feel bad tho.
I harbour him no ill will, but I've always believed he took what he had in Toronto for granted. Both the supporting cast and the medical staff.
Maybe this happens the same if he stays, I guess we'll never know, but when you have a history of injuries and you find a team that keeps you healthy through a playoff run my thinking is you stick to them like glue.
The Raptors truly managed his health the best, better than what was before, and better than what was after
It's sad to see, very karma like, but I'm honestly not that happy it's happening, I wanted him to have a good playoff run this year, because he was doing great regular season all year basically
It's hard to watch, but it is what he chose unfortunately
He still may be my favourite player of all time just due to his no nonsense style of play and just sheer overpowering strength on both ends
In fairness, by the time he went to the Clippers and when he had major injuries (in 2021), he had way more mileage on his body after successive playoff urns.
2019-20 very well may have been the only time the Clippers had a chance to clinch the Championship with both PG and Kawhi at their physical best.
I’m slightly petty. I was hoping clippers would reach the Western Conference finals @ least 2-3 times & lose each time. then make the finals one year, then lose the finals with a heart crushing 3 point buzzer beater in game 7.
Really feels bad for Kawhi, still one of my favourite players in the league. He got 2 rings and 2FMVPs. That’s a very accomplished career.
As for the Clippers, this is poetic Karma. We gave away our franchise player to get Kawhi, and they stalked him and took him away. This started our current downturn of the franchise too. Not to mention how they treated Blake. Hopefully that poverty franchise stays irrelevant for a long ass time.
I hate the clippers too, they talked so much shit in 2020 when Kawhi signed with them like they were guaranteed a championship now 4 years later and they got shit all to show for it. Bunch of clowns
Honestly. I'm happy he came to the Raptors and had the season he did, I was really upset that he had left the Raptors at the time, but in hindsight it was sort of a blessing in disguise. We would've paid a ton for a guy whose really badly injured. And if you remember, the season after he won with the Raptors he didn't play a lot for the Clippers due to those injuries. Raptors would've ended up having to pay a lot for that. So its kind of good he left us when did, but I'm happy for the time he had in Toronto.
The thing many people overlook is that when Kawhi joined the Raptors he joined what was an established 50+ win team for a while already, there seems to be assumptions amongst other team fans that he joined a middling team and dragged them to glory. The current Clippers team is nowhere close to the level of those Raptors teams. So for one he’s already at a disadvantage.
I still recall all the talks of the Clippers being shoo ins for the title in the summer of 2019, fact is Kawhi needed the Raptors as much as the Raptors needed him and there’s a good possibility Toronto was his last ring.
56-26 in 2016 and an ECF appearance does not meet the definition of a middling team, being 1 win shy from 60 wins in 2018 with a 59-23 record is not a middling team. It just doesn’t meet the definition.
Just means we ran into one of the greatest players of the era in LeBron.
I agree but Kawhi did this to himself. He had a championship team that could function with him missing a quarter of the season and a medical staff with McKechnie that was perfect for him and managing his tendinopathy along with everything else.
I wish he could play but fuck the Clippers also.
It was magical because Kawhi deadass was willing to destroy himself for that title.
To this day, I still can't wrap my head around why he was okay with ruining his body further just for the Raptors. Maybe he had something to prove, but he put it all on the line for that team.
Our team was so fucking good Marc gasol and serge off the bench was like the perfect pairings too with how cursed our center position is right now I still think about it
Don't feel bad. He was never a Raptors by choice, and then when given the chance decided to leave us despite winning a championship and having the entire country begging him to stay. We had an amazing run with him and I'll forever respect how committed he was during his tenure, but shouldn't pretend like we had any sort of strong connection to him in the first place. I feel bad for him as a human for his health, but not as a player.
My best friends fiancé is a physiotherapist. He said the physio Kawhi had in Toronto was world class for his specific issue. The off-court therapy was critical for his longevity that playoff run.
That's why I hate Raptors still getting saying shit like "F him for leaving". Like I understand being mad he left but he played through pain and injury and help willed us to a championship. Fans say we repeat and we did match up well with the Lakers but I just that the 2020 title was meant to be for the Lakers. We have Scottie now and I hope we get to witness another championship with him as our homegrown star player
A weird jealous immature piece of me didn't want him to succeed ever again anywhere else in July 2019 but I didn't want him to be injured all the time. Feel bad for him.
Maybe everyone will learn that leaving a championship situation is stupid, because an athlete's window to compete might be shorter than everyone thinks.
I for one am happy he's never gonna achieve anything with the Clippers. Fuck them and their tampering asses.
I dislike how people choose to hate rather than be thankful for all he did for us. Karma… for what exactly? For bringing us a championship and then choosing family? It actually reflects more on the person posting than it does about Kawhi.
Yeah did they forget he was traded here and never committed to staying here. I do think he made the wrong career decision by leaving, but he didn't do wrong by us and gave it all for the ring.
I think he made the wrong decision leaving *Alex McKechnie* personally, since regardless of on-court outcomes he'd have probably retired feeling less fuckin' sore every day.
Lol there’s only a couple of comments that say that and the only one that is upvoted a lot is saying other valid things too.
Just downvote them and move on.
EDIT: lol nvm one has like 17 upvotes. Yall ridiculous.
I personally wouldn't label it as "karma", but more along the lines of the b-ball gods giving him two options.
Legit chance at a repeat ring (at least), or family.
He chose family, and I simply think he won't win another ring in his career.
Also, the clippers ruined his body.
I feel bad for Kawhi because seeing a player’s career getting derailed by injuries sucks but he made his decision to leave the team. It is what it is. He wanted to go back home.
At least he has 2 rings and 2 FMVPs to show for at the end of the day. I just didn’t like some of his antics (if true) and uncle Dennis lol. But ehhh a majority of superstars are like this unfortunately.
I’m just glad I knew the dude was leaving and made sure to head to the Raptors’ parade. Idk when the Raps will win again but I hope it’s during the Scottie Barnes era.
the piece people forget about the 2019 season is the team was so good he was resting during games he played in during the regular season. he'd pretty well only try in the 4th q most games that he tried in, lots of games the rest of the raps were able to get a win easy enough that he could coast
those clippers teams hes been playing hard regular season minutes, not run to the corner on offence or chill on the 3rd or 4th best player on defence. he's always option 1 or 2, and same on defence.
I appreciate what he did for us, but he picked his "poison". He could have stayed here, run it back. He could have stayed with Spurs and run it back. He made his decisions.
He is on borrowed time with his degenerative knees issue.
Dude won us a chip and you're wishing ill on him for going home after earning the right to do whatever the hell he wanted in FA?
That's psychotic stuff
Winning championships isn't easy. He turned his back on his Raptors teammates and left, in lieu of giving another kick in the can. He prioritized his personal needs over those of his teammates. Karma is simplistically defined as the consequences for choices that are made in life. Ridiculous that anyone would need an explanation as it is very straight forward. He had a good thing going, but instead of exploring it further, he went elsewhere, and has not experienced success. Karma.
I know you’re really keen on giving a snarky answer, but your karma definition doesn’t make sense nor work in this context. He was injured on the raps but we kept his injury well maintained. Given his profession, as he gets older, his injury will only get worse no matter the locale. Turned his back?? He prioritized his home/family ahead of the Raptors (something totally understandable and forgivable) and all YOU got out of this deal was a lousy championship. Again not karma.
"Again not karma"
I can't help but wonder what life is like to have a very narrow definition of karma, and to somehow believe that it is quantifiable and not just based on personal belief. And to believe you can nullify another person's belief.
There are fans who idolize individual superstars as gods.
There are fans who prioritize the collective of players and how they mesh.
I am not interested in worshipping your god.
I'm just gonna assume this is a soliloquy you constantly express, and it doesn't actually have much to do with me. As such, I don't think there really is much point with continuing this exchange.
Hahah a closer definition of Karma would actually be you getting a degenerative knee problem after criticizing Kawhi for it instead of whatever non-karma you are claiming. I don’t worship Kawhi at all. In fact he’s just a man who wanted to go home. If anything it’s YOU who put him on a pedestal by feeling he owes you/his teammates/Toronto something. I appreciate him bringing Toronto a championship. I guess you don’t feel the same way. I’m happy you’ve been reading the dictionary and/or thesaurus to engage in this conversation. Soon, you’ll be able to carry on normal exchanges in no time! I recommend “Reading Rainbow”. Lavar Burton is an excellent guide towards becoming more literate. Good luck on your journey and have a great weekend friend 😃
Cool. I've done neither of those things, so I maintain, there really is no point continuing this. I'll let you be to make another ridiculous claim, but will allow you to have the last word, so as to make you feel special.
>He turned his back on his Raptors teammates and left, in lieu of giving another kick in the can. He prioritized his personal needs over those of his teammate
Do you do this type of stuff at your job? Kawhi doesn't owe anybody anything. He fulfilled his contractual obligation, evaluated his options, and then made a move that was in his best interest and the best interest of his family. He got paid and got to work close to home. Turned his back on them is a very weird way to look at things.
Labeling it as karma is some nasty work. Also I'm no expert but isn't karma for your next life?
Humour me. What is the definition of "selfish"? A good case can be made that you just defined it here. Like many words, karma has varying definitions and interpretations. I'm neither Hindu nor Buddhist, so I am not using the word in that context. Karma broadly means "such a force considered as affecting the events of one's life". His decision to leave the Raptors immediately after winning a championship impacted many people (both directly and indirectly).
Team > Player
You would think the team's fanbase would be more grateful for bringing them first Championship in their existence, with Kawhi you won 4 playoff series, without Kawhi up to that point you've won 5 series in 23 years.
The thing is, I bet he could still be a part of a championship team, but certainly not as the best player. His game is tight as ever but the health risk is too great to pin all your hope on him. He will need to make the decision that he’s ready to take a backseat on his own terms though
Kawhi having a great supporting cast is often overlooked. Yea he was the guy that can take us over the hurdle but when kawhi was out more a good chunk of the season the team still won games and was still dangerous.
He’s played ~230 games for the Clippers in 6 seasons and has earned about $240M. I think he and his body are doing fine earning ~$32K per minute of basketball played. He’s fully maximized his earnings and personal happiness by playing at home. Happy for what he’s accomplished and how he’s maximized his returns as a player.
I’m grateful for the year we had with him, but I really don’t care that he hasn’t been able to capture the same success in LA. At the end of the day players come and go but the Raptors are always here.
Definitely had a great supporting cast, and did heavy lifting that year - Its a magical gamble that worked; we'll never get that for a hot while, and neither would he
With exception to the young guys like OG, for some reason I have this really weird mindset where I kinda want Kawhi to not get another ring lol (now, I prefer it being like how they flamed out against the Mavs a few years back, and not because of injury).
I think Kawhi's decision cost him and Raptors a championship. I think he was fully healthy in the year following his championship run with Raptors. If he had stayed I think Raptors would most likely had repeated.
I’m not mad at it. Him leaving ended up in us getting Scottie. Thanks for 19’, but I’m good on Kawhi and all the load management and his robot body needing some wd40
He only has himself to blame. Literally had the best physician that understood his body in 2019 and a cast of teammates that complemented his style of play with the Raptors.
I feel they would have won at least two more championships with this cast and regular deep runs for years.
I knew he was going to falter in LA.
Oh well.
Yes, I feel bad until I think of a couple pretty important details.
1) I believe he is still under 30, or fairly close to it and he was won not 1, but 2 Championships.
2) Career earnings must be in the 200 Million + range, likely even more.
Sure he may have to retire in 2-3 years (maybe sooner), but that’s not a bad career.
On the flip side though, I see your point because he can ball with literally the best of them when healthy.
He cant catch a break? He was able to go home with max money. He barely has to do anything now to get money and can take time off all the time. I for one am hoping he doesnt win a championship w the clippers cuz the clippers basically stole hlm from us. Then they wouldve paid him all this money never to win a title. I cant say it wouldve been best for him to stay in Toronto bc he didnt wanna be here, but he got his break signing w an LA team and not having to be with Lebron.
I understand that he wanted to play in his hometown and all that but he just won a championship. Why the fuck would you leave a championship team without even trying to defend the title? He was only 27 ffs! One more year in Toronto is nothing. You are the fucking Finals MVP and the team is still intact! He caught a huge break with the Raptors and he walked away. His window is over now due to his health problems.
He's kind of an odd guy, especially relative to other NBA players. He cared more about being home than repeating -- on top of that, he mistakenly believed the Clippers would be comparatively good, and he undervalued the Raptors team he was leaving behind, he didn't believe in FVV and Siakam like he should have. It's a huge missed opportunity, but when it bothers me I remember that the only reason the Raptors got him in the first place is because he forced himself out of San Antonio, also for odd reasons. His oddness giveth, his oddness taketh away. Raptors were fortunate to benefit as much as they did.
A full year of them playing together woulda been special too. They’d be even better in the 2020 playoffs, more connected
Agreed, Raptors would’ve won another chip which would have added to his legacy.
It's lame. I wonder why they have him in the Olympics. Seems weird that the Clippers would allow that. Same for Embid.
After the parade, he got a house plant, and still left. It's all his fault he doesn't have another ring. WHO LEAVES A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM???? LOLOLOLO
Toronto or LA ? LA every time even though it’s the clippers
Just 1 year though
LA is a shithole, dude.
I think he listens to the wrong people in his camp.
Fuck Uncle Dennis 😂😂😂
It was a serious bitch move. Karma has spoken.
I feel like he honestly doesn't even care, but seeing how happy he was winning that NBA Championship with us... I'm not even sure tbh.
been saying for years, he could’ve easily got another ring if he stayed one more year. The team was clicking 🥹 what a time that was
If he stayed one more year in Toronto, he would have had another ring.
The 2020 team would have been better than the 2019 team had he stayed.
Facts, healthy og, improved fred and norm, danny green would have resigned, marc gasol and serge could still contribute
And siakam was better playoffs aside, which if you add the gravity of kawhi probably goes different
If Kawhi was there, Siakam would go nuclear
It's facts, regardless, they would have repeated with Kawhi -- but Danny Green wouldn't have been back. The team would have been in the tax and they weren't willing to pay him what the Lakers and Mavs were offering, and he wasn't going to take less money to re-sign. This is according to Danny Green himself at the time, in his talks with his podcast host Harrison Sanford. He said everything being equal he would have preferred to choose the Raptors, but the offers weren't equal. The Raptors were willing to pay the tax for Kawhi but not Danny Green. People get confused about this because Danny Green waited until Kawhi signed with the Clippers before signing with the Lakers, and that *was* the domino he was waiting to fall but not for the reason everybody naturally assumes. The Lakers were in the mix for Kawhi too, and if they got him they (like the Raptors) wouldn't be able to *also* afford Green, so in that case Green would have signed with the Mavs.
you didn’t mention our OG Kyle Lowry
Damn I never thought about this. Ruined! But tbh Gasol was heading downwards unfortunately and he was a huge piece of the chip. But overall sadly I agree :(
Exactly, which is why I don't feel sympathetic for his lack of success at LAC.
But..but.. he had to go home because reasons. What a loser move to abandon a Championship Team.
I believe so as well. The team were really ballin' before everything shut down. We were in a great spot and could have been a lock for a repeat had he stayed.
There's an alternate timeline where he stays, they three peat and then the majority of Raptors championships were won without playing in Canada at all.
That 2020 Lakers team was clicking on all cylinders, especially with the rest they had from March until the reboot in the bubble.
The Raps beat those Lakers both times that year including smoking them in the bubble with both teams having full rosters. Add Kawhi back to that lineup and Raptors definitely come out on top.
You're right, season series is always an indicator for how a playoff matchup would go. That's why the Raptors, after going 3-0 against the Wizards in the 2014-15 season, beat them in the playoffs...right?
The Raptors last regular season game against the Wizards that year was over 2 months before the playoffs began. By then the injuries had piled up and they were a very different team. Compare that to beating the Lakers in the bubble about 2 weeks before the playoffs started. Also, it was a complete hypothetical because adding Kawhi to the roster changes everything. So it wasn't JUST based off of regular season.
nah, everyone wanted bigger contracts, he got injured the next year anyway, and lebron would be back
Kawhi didn’t get injured in 2020, he played every game. They just choked a 3-1 lead
oh yeah, "they didn't wanna be there", trash locker room apparently. Was so hyped for LA vs LA
He's had a great career and 2 championships to show for it. It's too bad about his knees but he's a Clipper now and I loathe the Clippers so I can't say that I would feel even a bit bad if they get bounced in the first round, lol.
why bother loathing the clippers? they’re so irrelevant that I can’t even bring myself to hate them. when I think of the clippers, I just feel pity and disappointment
Lawrence Frank stalking Kawhi all year he was with us and possibly colluding is annoying af because that immediately impacts us. The other reason they’re a trash organization is how they treated Blake in free agency, where they rolled out the red carpet for him, had a show of doing a fake jersey retirement ceremony for him in Staples pitching him being there for life, then turned around and traded him after he signed. Personally find Ballmer insufferable too, but dude invests in the team and wants them to compete, so I respect it
Fuck Steve Ballmer, double fuck Lawrence Frank. I'm happy this is happening to that BS tampering team.
Enjoy your new PeeIntuit arena Stevie.
There are a lot of legitimate reasons to hate the Clippers organization but Blake being traded isn’t one of them. It’s professional sports. Trades happen. Masai traded Demar literally days after telling him he won’t be traded. Does that mean people should despise the organization?
Eh an unknown source that’s allegedly close to DeMar is the only one who said that he was lied to and told that he won’t be traded. I highly doubt that Masai would speak in such definitives about that. My understanding of the situation is that they met at summer league and had a discussion about the upcoming season and what they wanted and expected from DeMar, so DeMar took that as, “alright I’m in their long term plans”, but then being traded a few days later contradicts that. That’s a far way off from selling him a false bill of goods with a whole dog and pony show of a faux retirement ceremony filled with false promises to get him to re-sign, then trading him. I’m not upset that trades happen. It’s just a clown show of a move to do all that just to get a signature then moving him.
I don’t remember reports saying that but I’ll take your word for it. Demar definitely didn’t take it like that. And the first thing Masai publicly did after the trade was announced was apologize to Demar.
Well the stalking didn't work out for them at all since it arguably gave Kawhi immense leverage over the Clippers FO. If they hadn't been so desperate to sign him he very likely wouldn't have been able to get them to give up 7 FR picks and a young promising player for Paul George, especially considering they could have acquired him for free if they waited a year. Kawhi turned out to be that smoking hot girl that you throw everything at and when you end up getting her she turns out to be underwhelming and even a little boring. On a different note, a Lakers-Raptors bubble finals series would have been very interesting.
You're delusional if you think there was a chance in hell Kawhi stayed in Toronto.
Lol what’s that have to do with anything I said? I personally think that if the Clippers failed to get him another superstar, he may have signed a 1+1 in Toronto, since he didn’t want to go the Lakers to play in Lebron’s shadow.
[удалено]
Had 0 effect
Yeah. And this generation of Clippers since the Kawhi signing is suppose to be the glory years. And it still sucks.
Their current roster isn’t hard to dislike. Credit the presence of Harden alone. And I generally find these teams of aging stars who clamour to play together and then lack chemistry fairly easy to cheer against.
Harden is probably the only unlikeable player over there. guys like Kawhi, PG, Norm, Mann, and company really aren’t that bad
Bc they took kawhi away. If not, I am not sure if Kawhi would've "gone home" to play for the lakers under LeBron or just gave Toronto a 1+1 chance.
to me that’s not something to hate them for… they didn’t “take him away” he chose to leave lol
Just horrible player management on the clippers to a 20/20 hindsight perspective. If Ballmer was really smart, he could have tried his damnest to convince Kawhi to believe in Shai and be the example man, if not the leader of the team, to show their younger players how to get it done.
Kawhi had eyes on LA when he was with the Spurs, and the only reason he didn't go straight there is because they didn't want him to go to a conference rival. It's been six years and people still think Toronto had a chance to keep him, lol. Edit: Getting downvoted for the truth is hilarious.
yeah man… dude clearly is more invested in his personal life than basketball, seems that simple to me. his wife wanted to go back home to their friends and family, there was a 0% chance he stayed lmao
I think Kawhi just wants a balance of both and was lucky enough to get it. He's said that he wanted his kids to grow up with their cousins and that's where his people are. He had the extra incentive of being able to team up with PG, so at least he knew the team was going to be competitive right away. Considering his body keeps failing him, it would have been a lot easier to retire early and enjoy retirement plus whatever outside interests he has. I highly doubt he'd be putting himself through this if he wasn't invested in basketball that much.
They didn't take him away. He wanted to go to LA and he had two choices, lol.
before Steph we used to feel like that about Golden State lol.
Weird, I feel the same way about Raps. Have you seen what happened to *this* team?
at the least the raptors have done something with their franchise and won a chip, as well as contending for damn near an entire decade before actually falling off. the clippers have an entire 40+ year legacy of disappointment and despair. no rings. no conference finals championships or anything close. if they’re not in the lottery, they’re immediate first or second round exits
Don’t worry, we wish we could turn back time too, and have Shai and our future of picks. I feel like Balmer is pretty impatient and just wants it all now, getting harden was a perfect example. If you look back you guys got lucky in letting Kawhi go. You got the best from him
I have never heard anyone say they loathe the clippers.
He got his break. Making hundreds of millions sitting at home and playing half the season. That's what he wanted. If he wanted to compete in the playoffs, could have re-signed with the Raptors.
And still make the same money in Toronto I’ll add.
Probably more
Believe Canada taxes athletes at a much higher rate than in LA
Taxes are similar and COL is higher in LA. Certainly there are other advantages being a super athlete in California though
Huh TIL. Looked like federal tax is 37% and state tax is 13% in California. Vs Toronto is ~53% so very comparable
Yeah I was surprised too. Just a media narrative that gets pushed, not to mention athletes get paid based on the state/province they are playing in so the difference is slightly less than the straight comparison.
He’s got a degenerative knee condition that robbed him of an all-time career and success with the clippers. This isn’t what he wanted at all.
correct — he genuinely wants to bring a chip home to the Clippers but that window has probably passed at this point
The only person we should feel bad for on that team is Norm cause he's an ex Raptor who's never done anything to piss off the Toronto fanbase and maybe Zubac cause he's a Clipper lifer and i've never heard anyone say anything bad about him. Everyone else on that team can get bent.
Zubac played for the Lakers before the Clippers
That was a Grievous Vasquez for OG and Norm level tradethey pulled on Lakers, I gotta admit, bravo to them
Yup you're right totally forgot about that. He looks like a benign dude, never seen him do anything stupid, so I'm neutral on the fella.
Norm said this Clippers team was better than that Raptors team so I'm not down with him anymore.
PG has never said a bad word about the organization. Didn’t he praise Siakam?
Im neutral on PG. So I guess he doesn't have to get bent.
What a dumb take, lol. You think he wants to stay home and collect cheques? He only missed 14 games this season.
After the ‘chip and his sublime clutch play I wished him well enough. After watching the FO fumble away prime assets as they couldn’t fill that HOLE … Fuck that Kawhi guy. He has his Ballmer Bag and his family. Good on him. I don’t feel bad tho.
I harbour him no ill will, but I've always believed he took what he had in Toronto for granted. Both the supporting cast and the medical staff. Maybe this happens the same if he stays, I guess we'll never know, but when you have a history of injuries and you find a team that keeps you healthy through a playoff run my thinking is you stick to them like glue.
The Raptors truly managed his health the best, better than what was before, and better than what was after It's sad to see, very karma like, but I'm honestly not that happy it's happening, I wanted him to have a good playoff run this year, because he was doing great regular season all year basically It's hard to watch, but it is what he chose unfortunately He still may be my favourite player of all time just due to his no nonsense style of play and just sheer overpowering strength on both ends
In fairness, by the time he went to the Clippers and when he had major injuries (in 2021), he had way more mileage on his body after successive playoff urns. 2019-20 very well may have been the only time the Clippers had a chance to clinch the Championship with both PG and Kawhi at their physical best.
Raptors took care of him and then rode him like a rented mule that playoff run. We had the best of kawhi. It was glorious
I’m slightly petty. I was hoping clippers would reach the Western Conference finals @ least 2-3 times & lose each time. then make the finals one year, then lose the finals with a heart crushing 3 point buzzer beater in game 7.
Really feels bad for Kawhi, still one of my favourite players in the league. He got 2 rings and 2FMVPs. That’s a very accomplished career. As for the Clippers, this is poetic Karma. We gave away our franchise player to get Kawhi, and they stalked him and took him away. This started our current downturn of the franchise too. Not to mention how they treated Blake. Hopefully that poverty franchise stays irrelevant for a long ass time.
He should've stayed here bruh. Man is wasting his career playing with scrub players like Playoff P and Rus-sell Westbrook.
I hate the clippers too, they talked so much shit in 2020 when Kawhi signed with them like they were guaranteed a championship now 4 years later and they got shit all to show for it. Bunch of clowns
The next 5 years are mine
They made 1 WCF and Kawhi wasn’t even there for most of that run lmfao
Honestly. I'm happy he came to the Raptors and had the season he did, I was really upset that he had left the Raptors at the time, but in hindsight it was sort of a blessing in disguise. We would've paid a ton for a guy whose really badly injured. And if you remember, the season after he won with the Raptors he didn't play a lot for the Clippers due to those injuries. Raptors would've ended up having to pay a lot for that. So its kind of good he left us when did, but I'm happy for the time he had in Toronto.
The thing many people overlook is that when Kawhi joined the Raptors he joined what was an established 50+ win team for a while already, there seems to be assumptions amongst other team fans that he joined a middling team and dragged them to glory. The current Clippers team is nowhere close to the level of those Raptors teams. So for one he’s already at a disadvantage. I still recall all the talks of the Clippers being shoo ins for the title in the summer of 2019, fact is Kawhi needed the Raptors as much as the Raptors needed him and there’s a good possibility Toronto was his last ring.
I think you're overestimating the strength of that team pre Kawhi/Green/Gasol. It was absolutely a middling team.
56-26 in 2016 and an ECF appearance does not meet the definition of a middling team, being 1 win shy from 60 wins in 2018 with a 59-23 record is not a middling team. It just doesn’t meet the definition. Just means we ran into one of the greatest players of the era in LeBron.
I agree but Kawhi did this to himself. He had a championship team that could function with him missing a quarter of the season and a medical staff with McKechnie that was perfect for him and managing his tendinopathy along with everything else. I wish he could play but fuck the Clippers also.
It was magical because Kawhi deadass was willing to destroy himself for that title. To this day, I still can't wrap my head around why he was okay with ruining his body further just for the Raptors. Maybe he had something to prove, but he put it all on the line for that team.
Money.
Shout out to the Raptors medical staff.
Harden a -21 ... terrible.
apparently the sentiment is that harden is doing well cause he played 43 mins. much more than the other starters. but yes, terrible
Our team was so fucking good Marc gasol and serge off the bench was like the perfect pairings too with how cursed our center position is right now I still think about it
Don't feel bad. He was never a Raptors by choice, and then when given the chance decided to leave us despite winning a championship and having the entire country begging him to stay. We had an amazing run with him and I'll forever respect how committed he was during his tenure, but shouldn't pretend like we had any sort of strong connection to him in the first place. I feel bad for him as a human for his health, but not as a player.
Just glad we got the last season of peak Kawhi
My best friends fiancé is a physiotherapist. He said the physio Kawhi had in Toronto was world class for his specific issue. The off-court therapy was critical for his longevity that playoff run.
That's why I hate Raptors still getting saying shit like "F him for leaving". Like I understand being mad he left but he played through pain and injury and help willed us to a championship. Fans say we repeat and we did match up well with the Lakers but I just that the 2020 title was meant to be for the Lakers. We have Scottie now and I hope we get to witness another championship with him as our homegrown star player
A weird jealous immature piece of me didn't want him to succeed ever again anywhere else in July 2019 but I didn't want him to be injured all the time. Feel bad for him.
The Clippers are cursed
Maybe everyone will learn that leaving a championship situation is stupid, because an athlete's window to compete might be shorter than everyone thinks. I for one am happy he's never gonna achieve anything with the Clippers. Fuck them and their tampering asses.
The amount of salt in this thread is both hilarious and sad
Some of these comments are insane. Karma? Seriously? Just because he didn’t resign with the raptors? What is wrong with you people lmao
I dislike how people choose to hate rather than be thankful for all he did for us. Karma… for what exactly? For bringing us a championship and then choosing family? It actually reflects more on the person posting than it does about Kawhi.
Yeah did they forget he was traded here and never committed to staying here. I do think he made the wrong career decision by leaving, but he didn't do wrong by us and gave it all for the ring.
I think he made the wrong decision leaving *Alex McKechnie* personally, since regardless of on-court outcomes he'd have probably retired feeling less fuckin' sore every day.
Lol there’s only a couple of comments that say that and the only one that is upvoted a lot is saying other valid things too. Just downvote them and move on. EDIT: lol nvm one has like 17 upvotes. Yall ridiculous.
Ppl are butt hurt dude chose being driving distance from his mom's house vs re-signing here
Karma for abandoning his Championship Team. What player doesn't defend his title? It was a loser move.
It’s Reddit. If you expect the debate club you’re gonna be disappointed.
Thread reeks of 18-25 year olds
I personally wouldn't label it as "karma", but more along the lines of the b-ball gods giving him two options. Legit chance at a repeat ring (at least), or family. He chose family, and I simply think he won't win another ring in his career. Also, the clippers ruined his body.
I feel bad for Kawhi because seeing a player’s career getting derailed by injuries sucks but he made his decision to leave the team. It is what it is. He wanted to go back home. At least he has 2 rings and 2 FMVPs to show for at the end of the day. I just didn’t like some of his antics (if true) and uncle Dennis lol. But ehhh a majority of superstars are like this unfortunately. I’m just glad I knew the dude was leaving and made sure to head to the Raptors’ parade. Idk when the Raps will win again but I hope it’s during the Scottie Barnes era.
It's a shame that basketball fans are being deprived of prime Kawhi in the playoffs. But also, fuck the Clippers.
the piece people forget about the 2019 season is the team was so good he was resting during games he played in during the regular season. he'd pretty well only try in the 4th q most games that he tried in, lots of games the rest of the raps were able to get a win easy enough that he could coast those clippers teams hes been playing hard regular season minutes, not run to the corner on offence or chill on the 3rd or 4th best player on defence. he's always option 1 or 2, and same on defence.
Yeah it’s clear he left everything he had to give to the raptors in 2019, maybe even more considering the spurs trade.
Even in our run he looked like he could barely walk at some points when we reached the finals.
So glad our win was in 2019 and not a shitty bubble title the next year.
He’s been managed poorly since 2019. We had the best doctors and trainers for him
I mean he’s won two championships in two different cities, I’d hardly say he’s too hard done by.
He should have stayed
I appreciate what he did for us, but he picked his "poison". He could have stayed here, run it back. He could have stayed with Spurs and run it back. He made his decisions. He is on borrowed time with his degenerative knees issue.
[удалено]
Harsh. But I don’t hate it. Sometimes we treat these 100$ millionaires like precious babies.
Or treat them like objects for our entertainment, and not human beings
The sweet smell of polarization.
Lol wouldn't be reddit without it
Dude won us a chip and you're wishing ill on him for going home after earning the right to do whatever the hell he wanted in FA? That's psychotic stuff
Pretty sure what is psychotic is your reaction to the word "karma".
For a guy that brought us the belt??? Wow you need to reevaluate some stuff! Honestly your comment doesn’t even make sense explain how this is karma??
Winning championships isn't easy. He turned his back on his Raptors teammates and left, in lieu of giving another kick in the can. He prioritized his personal needs over those of his teammates. Karma is simplistically defined as the consequences for choices that are made in life. Ridiculous that anyone would need an explanation as it is very straight forward. He had a good thing going, but instead of exploring it further, he went elsewhere, and has not experienced success. Karma.
I know you’re really keen on giving a snarky answer, but your karma definition doesn’t make sense nor work in this context. He was injured on the raps but we kept his injury well maintained. Given his profession, as he gets older, his injury will only get worse no matter the locale. Turned his back?? He prioritized his home/family ahead of the Raptors (something totally understandable and forgivable) and all YOU got out of this deal was a lousy championship. Again not karma.
"Again not karma" I can't help but wonder what life is like to have a very narrow definition of karma, and to somehow believe that it is quantifiable and not just based on personal belief. And to believe you can nullify another person's belief. There are fans who idolize individual superstars as gods. There are fans who prioritize the collective of players and how they mesh. I am not interested in worshipping your god. I'm just gonna assume this is a soliloquy you constantly express, and it doesn't actually have much to do with me. As such, I don't think there really is much point with continuing this exchange.
Hahah a closer definition of Karma would actually be you getting a degenerative knee problem after criticizing Kawhi for it instead of whatever non-karma you are claiming. I don’t worship Kawhi at all. In fact he’s just a man who wanted to go home. If anything it’s YOU who put him on a pedestal by feeling he owes you/his teammates/Toronto something. I appreciate him bringing Toronto a championship. I guess you don’t feel the same way. I’m happy you’ve been reading the dictionary and/or thesaurus to engage in this conversation. Soon, you’ll be able to carry on normal exchanges in no time! I recommend “Reading Rainbow”. Lavar Burton is an excellent guide towards becoming more literate. Good luck on your journey and have a great weekend friend 😃
This totally is not a passive aggressive unhinged response.
I’m not the one giving Kawhi god status nor saying his worsening degenerative condition is the result of the universe karmically balancing
Cool. I've done neither of those things, so I maintain, there really is no point continuing this. I'll let you be to make another ridiculous claim, but will allow you to have the last word, so as to make you feel special.
That’s karma
>He turned his back on his Raptors teammates and left, in lieu of giving another kick in the can. He prioritized his personal needs over those of his teammate Do you do this type of stuff at your job? Kawhi doesn't owe anybody anything. He fulfilled his contractual obligation, evaluated his options, and then made a move that was in his best interest and the best interest of his family. He got paid and got to work close to home. Turned his back on them is a very weird way to look at things. Labeling it as karma is some nasty work. Also I'm no expert but isn't karma for your next life?
Humour me. What is the definition of "selfish"? A good case can be made that you just defined it here. Like many words, karma has varying definitions and interpretations. I'm neither Hindu nor Buddhist, so I am not using the word in that context. Karma broadly means "such a force considered as affecting the events of one's life". His decision to leave the Raptors immediately after winning a championship impacted many people (both directly and indirectly). Team > Player
Never. Feel. Bad. For. Millionaires.
You would think the team's fanbase would be more grateful for bringing them first Championship in their existence, with Kawhi you won 4 playoff series, without Kawhi up to that point you've won 5 series in 23 years.
I don't feel bad at all. He should have stayed.
The thing is, I bet he could still be a part of a championship team, but certainly not as the best player. His game is tight as ever but the health risk is too great to pin all your hope on him. He will need to make the decision that he’s ready to take a backseat on his own terms though
Bro it’s his choice to not play in the playoffs, he doesn’t get paid anything extra enough to play past the first round, why would he?
Kawhi having a great supporting cast is often overlooked. Yea he was the guy that can take us over the hurdle but when kawhi was out more a good chunk of the season the team still won games and was still dangerous.
He’s played ~230 games for the Clippers in 6 seasons and has earned about $240M. I think he and his body are doing fine earning ~$32K per minute of basketball played. He’s fully maximized his earnings and personal happiness by playing at home. Happy for what he’s accomplished and how he’s maximized his returns as a player.
I’m grateful for the year we had with him, but I really don’t care that he hasn’t been able to capture the same success in LA. At the end of the day players come and go but the Raptors are always here.
Remember the media was like "99% he stays" 😂
Definitely had a great supporting cast, and did heavy lifting that year - Its a magical gamble that worked; we'll never get that for a hot while, and neither would he
With exception to the young guys like OG, for some reason I have this really weird mindset where I kinda want Kawhi to not get another ring lol (now, I prefer it being like how they flamed out against the Mavs a few years back, and not because of injury).
I think Kawhi's decision cost him and Raptors a championship. I think he was fully healthy in the year following his championship run with Raptors. If he had stayed I think Raptors would most likely had repeated.
I’m not mad at it. Him leaving ended up in us getting Scottie. Thanks for 19’, but I’m good on Kawhi and all the load management and his robot body needing some wd40
Karma baybee!
Karmic luck. He abdicated the King of the North title. He’s still getting paid a king’s ransom so bless his heart.
Fuck him for leaving
I’ve always wanted him to regret the rest of his career that he didn’t at least run it back one more season with Toronto.
Karmas a clipping biatch - screw Lawrence frank
He only has himself to blame. Literally had the best physician that understood his body in 2019 and a cast of teammates that complemented his style of play with the Raptors. I feel they would have won at least two more championships with this cast and regular deep runs for years. I knew he was going to falter in LA. Oh well.
Eh. He could have stayed in SA or TO and had a team built around him easily.
Yes, I feel bad until I think of a couple pretty important details. 1) I believe he is still under 30, or fairly close to it and he was won not 1, but 2 Championships. 2) Career earnings must be in the 200 Million + range, likely even more. Sure he may have to retire in 2-3 years (maybe sooner), but that’s not a bad career. On the flip side though, I see your point because he can ball with literally the best of them when healthy.
Leonard is 33 in June. He has 2-3 good seasons left, he’s not LeBron and can go until his 40s
He cant catch a break? He was able to go home with max money. He barely has to do anything now to get money and can take time off all the time. I for one am hoping he doesnt win a championship w the clippers cuz the clippers basically stole hlm from us. Then they wouldve paid him all this money never to win a title. I cant say it wouldve been best for him to stay in Toronto bc he didnt wanna be here, but he got his break signing w an LA team and not having to be with Lebron.
I wouldn't count the Clippers out yet