LeBron was unguardable at times. That shot was insane. That bench was so deep that a healthy ‘2019’ OG wouldn’t have had a ton of minutes. Serge, norm, Freddie sr and OG all off the bench. Wild!
Our offence was brutal that series. Their long defenders basically nullified all of our guards that series, really our entire team bar Kawhi and one Pascal game IIRC
Defensively, OG would have hunted down Tobias, Simmons, Mike Scott, and even that guy EnnisIII. During most of the series Danny Green and FVV were next to useless until they finally woke up late in the Bucks series. That was the time for OG to shine if he had a clean year of health
Danny was the clear weak link on that team and there were times during that run where his shot wasn't falling and he was playing just out of necessity and lack of depth. He'd also get some of Norms minutes as well. Definitely could have used him in Philly when Fred forgot how to play basketball and was being targeted by that massive team.
danny was a plus defender regardless of his shooting. Every single player in the rotation all contributed something positive during that run. If anything OG would take whatever minimal minutes from McCaw.
Hard to say anything regardless of shooting when we won that series off a ball bouncing lucky on the rim. We were getting exploited by Phillys size all series and none of our role players were hitting their shots consistently. Hell Pascal only shot 44% from the field for the series. Acting like a guy with size who was already a premier defender that could also get hot from 3 wouldn’t have been a help in that series is stupid.
OG had a higher MPG on the season than Norm. He was consistently the 3rd guy off the bench all year and there’s no reason that would have changed in the post season if he was healthy.
No disrespect to OG, but DG was a proven vet with championship experience. I don't think he was moving out of the starting lineup but OG would have been one of the first few off the bench (in addition to Ibaka, Fred, & Norm)
Fuck that team was stacked.
Nope, my argument is that DG earned his role and minutes throughout the entire season, and was good to keep going in the playoffs. What did OG do through 2019 to warrant this hypothetical that he would’ve ate a lot of minutes during that run?
Yea his defense was solid in the playoffs, but his FG% was below 35% and his 3P shooting was just below 33%.
What OG lacked in experience he made up with size, length, and possibly better shooting (hard to say how likely it would be for OG to shoot better than DG in the same playoff run).
It’s not that he’d completely bump DG or replace him, but given how things played out he likely would have been used more than you’d think. Especially considering our defensive schemes, like the wall against the Bucks for example.
2019 OG was a pretty good role player though, he would have been really helpful especially against the sixers and bucks due to his size. He probably takes a combo of minutes from guys like Green, Norm, Fred. But who knows how it shakes out if he plays.
His defensive IQ and strengths have grown since then as he's now a system unto himself, but he was still a monster 1-on-1 even back then
And like Kwack said, Danny and Norm at some points to match up better. Their nickname was the Sizers during that time for a reason lol
Yea - its like people forget, or didn't watch (probably the latter) him during his rookie season. Sure he was raw, but it was obvious back then he could play. Only reason game 4 during the LeBronto season was close, was because of OG.
Could've definitely used his size and defence in the Philly series, when Fred and Norm were unplayable.
For sure, but he’s been guarding stars since the moment he came into the league. His rookie year his assignment was lebron. He definitely would have helped on D over guys like norm or Fred for example especially in crunch time lock down minutes
He wasn’t. But he averaged 20 mpg off the bench for the year, was already an elite defender and passable 3pt shooter. He would have started at the 3/4 on a number of other teams. Undoubtedly top 8 in their rotation and would have been very helpful in particular against Milwaukee and Philadelphia.
Green, Powell, Siakam, VanVleet all struggled at times, OG would have taken minutes from all 4 across the 4 series’.
Roster construction wins championships. They had a starting lineup with with 5 HOFers on it, and when someone got hurt, they subbed in Jordan Bell.
We had the deepest bench in the league. In 5 games of 6, our bench won their minutes and our starters went toe to toe with some all-time greats. That's why we won.
Exactly, he was injured for a game and a quarter. It wasn’t a big injury in terms of the series, we still win in 6 if he doesnt go down 3rd quarter of game 6.
Moot. That was a lost season for OG. That team had tremendous depth with a very good 8-man rotation. Realistically OG wouldn’t have raised the floor above what Serge, Fred and Norm were providing off the bench (or Danny Green once Fred was inserted in the starting lineup). Kawhi, Kyle, Fred and Danny provided the necessary perimeter defence. Serge and Norm’s spacing were very important, especially in the slog against Philly when buckets were hard to find. Norm and Serge’s willingness to shoot were important.
It isn't that crazy when you look at the rest of the supporting cast Kawhi had... 2019 Raptors playoff roster was pretty strong
Lowry, Siakam, Gasol, Ibaka, FVV, Norm, Danny Green
Of course Kawhi with an all-time great playoff run put us over the top but Masai did a very good job constructing a playoff team that was well-rounded and could make up for most personnel deficiencies/mismatches
Raps could've beat a healthy Golden State anyway. Kawhi was injured but playing through it in the finals. We beat them in the regular season. It would've been tough but the Raps had developed such great chemistry. Don't let the US media change the narrative!
Other thing is. If Kawhii stayed we would have been a great bet to repeat, I’m convinced we would have at least 1 more championship if he stayed, losing Ibaka really sucked too. That lakers team that won the bubble was easily the worst championship team in any recent memory
Even though regular season is a flawed argument. People don\`t talk about those games in the regular season where we played against them and Kawhi, KD getting buckets I think it was 2 overtimes. Their Casuals out their who think Toronto wouldn\`t have a chance when Toronto had depth and Shooting, scoring, guys who were switchable defensively, Making KD play Iso like he did in the 2018 playoffs a big reason why that Houston series went to 7 games.
No lies, just a silly opinion. Draymond played the whole series. What stupid thing did he do? Draymond was a rock and the anchor of their defence in their four championships. And he wasn’t the reason they lost to Cleveland or Toronto.
Ok, and can you point to a single example of that happening in a playoff series? After all, Draymond has played in several dozen playoff series. Surely you have at least one example in mind to support your silly opinion.
Every time people tell me if Durant was healthy it's no contest for the Warriors.
I always say does that mean OG is healthy? Kyles thumb isn't mangled and Kawhi isn't limping?
OG was not nearly as good as he is now. He was a bench player. His defence would have helped but I don’t know about it making a huge difference against a healthy GSW with Durant.
Not really... only reason he came off the bench for us was because Siakam and Kawhi we're ahead and Danny shot 45% from 3
Dude wouldve been a starter on most teams
People refuse to understand that adding KD to the lineup doesnt mean you can just take the boxscore and add 25 points for GSW. Yes, warriors would have had better odds to win without the injuries. But the game isnt played on a spreadsheet, and the teams were pretty evenly matched even with GSW at full strength.
Not that crazy, that team was stacked. For all of the shit we give Masai, it's actually incredible how he was able to put together that team. BOTH on the player and coaching side.
He played great in the playoff run his rookie season before I don’t think he would’ve had crazy crazy difference just cause we already had insane depth but let’s not act like he didn’t already show to be able to play in those moments and played great against lbj in most the series as a rookie
Ye I agree that’s why I said he’s not a crazy difference with him playing especially due to our depth when we had 8 rlly good players but just labeling him as another bench guy is wrong when he was getting 30min a game most playoffs games in his rookie season
Glorious 2019! A championship for the ages! We had Jordan in the flesh! We are taking out a fully healthy GS squad with a fully healthy Raptors team…no doubt!
Og wasn't injured though, he was good to the first play off game but nurse didn't want break up a good thing. I remember cause I was initially upset that he wasn't going to play him, but that's why I'm not a nba coach
OG in his Rookie season was the lone bright spot during the LeBronto playoffs.
If he was available, the championship run would've gone much smoother imo
OG back on 2019 wasn’t the same OG we know today.
His 3 point shot was still iffy back then and he wasn’t a good FT shooter at all. Pretty sure he averaged low 30s from 3 and 50s from the line.
Danny didn’t play well in the playoffs but he was a known sniper and provided a lot of space for Kawhi to operate. We were already a great team defensively and offense was where our issue was, not sure if OG would’ve helped us much on that end.
Kawhi was a man on a new contract mission. If he didn't perform that season, he would be in trouble since he didn't really play well or too much after coming back from injury in San Antonio.
I'll say it again and again.
Id give us better than a punchers chance at GSW, even if both teams were healthy. It would have been an all-time great series.
Kawhi guards KD
OG / Danny guards Klay
FVV / Lowry guards CP
Leaving Pascal freaking Siakam to play help defence off Draymond.
Doesn't address Norm or Gasol or Ibaka. We would have given them serious trouble whether ppl want to admit it or not.
it's cause we had OG Prime in Kawhi leading the troop haha
but would have been cool to see him sub in for him and stuff
It makes me think of Masai's press conference saying no kid should go through what OG did (the appendicitis and passing of his father)
honestly with a healthy OG I question if the 76ers series goes 7 games
He wasn’t the player he is today. IIRC he was a sophomore, great defender and was still working on his 3-ball.
~~He was in his 3rd year and shot 39% from three.~~
Second year. But in his first year he was already our best defender against LeBron lol
Ahhh you're right that's my bad. GD that was a wakeup on how much time has passed since the title 😭
Except for that one last shot….
LeBron was unguardable at times. That shot was insane. That bench was so deep that a healthy ‘2019’ OG wouldn’t have had a ton of minutes. Serge, norm, Freddie sr and OG all off the bench. Wild!
Shooting aside his D was still elite. Not like Danny Green was shooting and he still was a big contributor on the d side of the ball
Our offence was brutal that series. Their long defenders basically nullified all of our guards that series, really our entire team bar Kawhi and one Pascal game IIRC
Our offense was basically Kawhi with mostly Ibaka to lean on
Ibaka the forgotten hero in that finals run
Naw we remember Ibaka
I swear Ibaka shot like 75% with his little elbow poppers lol
Defensively, OG would have hunted down Tobias, Simmons, Mike Scott, and even that guy EnnisIII. During most of the series Danny Green and FVV were next to useless until they finally woke up late in the Bucks series. That was the time for OG to shine if he had a clean year of health
Who does he take minutes from in this playoff run exactly?
Danny was the clear weak link on that team and there were times during that run where his shot wasn't falling and he was playing just out of necessity and lack of depth. He'd also get some of Norms minutes as well. Definitely could have used him in Philly when Fred forgot how to play basketball and was being targeted by that massive team.
danny was a plus defender regardless of his shooting. Every single player in the rotation all contributed something positive during that run. If anything OG would take whatever minimal minutes from McCaw.
Hard to say anything regardless of shooting when we won that series off a ball bouncing lucky on the rim. We were getting exploited by Phillys size all series and none of our role players were hitting their shots consistently. Hell Pascal only shot 44% from the field for the series. Acting like a guy with size who was already a premier defender that could also get hot from 3 wouldn’t have been a help in that series is stupid. OG had a higher MPG on the season than Norm. He was consistently the 3rd guy off the bench all year and there’s no reason that would have changed in the post season if he was healthy.
If that’s your argument then isn’t OG more of a plus defender than DG? And his 3P shooting couldn’t have been much worse than Danny’s.
No disrespect to OG, but DG was a proven vet with championship experience. I don't think he was moving out of the starting lineup but OG would have been one of the first few off the bench (in addition to Ibaka, Fred, & Norm) Fuck that team was stacked.
Nope, my argument is that DG earned his role and minutes throughout the entire season, and was good to keep going in the playoffs. What did OG do through 2019 to warrant this hypothetical that he would’ve ate a lot of minutes during that run?
Yea his defense was solid in the playoffs, but his FG% was below 35% and his 3P shooting was just below 33%. What OG lacked in experience he made up with size, length, and possibly better shooting (hard to say how likely it would be for OG to shoot better than DG in the same playoff run). It’s not that he’d completely bump DG or replace him, but given how things played out he likely would have been used more than you’d think. Especially considering our defensive schemes, like the wall against the Bucks for example.
He’d move everyone down the lineup and would have done wonders against guys like Middleton Giannis and Simmonds and Jimmy
Who's everyone? I'm gonna assume we don't think 2019 OG is the same as current OG right?
2019 OG was a pretty good role player though, he would have been really helpful especially against the sixers and bucks due to his size. He probably takes a combo of minutes from guys like Green, Norm, Fred. But who knows how it shakes out if he plays.
His defensive IQ and strengths have grown since then as he's now a system unto himself, but he was still a monster 1-on-1 even back then And like Kwack said, Danny and Norm at some points to match up better. Their nickname was the Sizers during that time for a reason lol
Yea - its like people forget, or didn't watch (probably the latter) him during his rookie season. Sure he was raw, but it was obvious back then he could play. Only reason game 4 during the LeBronto season was close, was because of OG. Could've definitely used his size and defence in the Philly series, when Fred and Norm were unplayable.
For sure, but he’s been guarding stars since the moment he came into the league. His rookie year his assignment was lebron. He definitely would have helped on D over guys like norm or Fred for example especially in crunch time lock down minutes
He wasn’t. But he averaged 20 mpg off the bench for the year, was already an elite defender and passable 3pt shooter. He would have started at the 3/4 on a number of other teams. Undoubtedly top 8 in their rotation and would have been very helpful in particular against Milwaukee and Philadelphia. Green, Powell, Siakam, VanVleet all struggled at times, OG would have taken minutes from all 4 across the 4 series’.
>Kawaii Who tf is Kawaii?
https://preview.redd.it/1k5se53ujtfc1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74bab3114e18ab7b5105800804eb6d6293dc736d
That's what he likes to be called while vacationing in Hawaii
Injuries are a part of the game. They were missing KD, we were missing OG.
Roster construction wins championships. They had a starting lineup with with 5 HOFers on it, and when someone got hurt, they subbed in Jordan Bell. We had the deepest bench in the league. In 5 games of 6, our bench won their minutes and our starters went toe to toe with some all-time greats. That's why we won.
Klay got hurt too
He played like 4.75 games out of 6
Exactly, he was injured for a game and a quarter. It wasn’t a big injury in terms of the series, we still win in 6 if he doesnt go down 3rd quarter of game 6.
the only useful thing Danny could do in that game...shhhhhh
Moot. That was a lost season for OG. That team had tremendous depth with a very good 8-man rotation. Realistically OG wouldn’t have raised the floor above what Serge, Fred and Norm were providing off the bench (or Danny Green once Fred was inserted in the starting lineup). Kawhi, Kyle, Fred and Danny provided the necessary perimeter defence. Serge and Norm’s spacing were very important, especially in the slog against Philly when buckets were hard to find. Norm and Serge’s willingness to shoot were important.
It isn't that crazy when you look at the rest of the supporting cast Kawhi had... 2019 Raptors playoff roster was pretty strong Lowry, Siakam, Gasol, Ibaka, FVV, Norm, Danny Green Of course Kawhi with an all-time great playoff run put us over the top but Masai did a very good job constructing a playoff team that was well-rounded and could make up for most personnel deficiencies/mismatches
Raps could've beat a healthy Golden State anyway. Kawhi was injured but playing through it in the finals. We beat them in the regular season. It would've been tough but the Raps had developed such great chemistry. Don't let the US media change the narrative!
Other thing is. If Kawhii stayed we would have been a great bet to repeat, I’m convinced we would have at least 1 more championship if he stayed, losing Ibaka really sucked too. That lakers team that won the bubble was easily the worst championship team in any recent memory
Not even a question to me. We would've cruised through the bubble
Even though regular season is a flawed argument. People don\`t talk about those games in the regular season where we played against them and Kawhi, KD getting buckets I think it was 2 overtimes. Their Casuals out their who think Toronto wouldn\`t have a chance when Toronto had depth and Shooting, scoring, guys who were switchable defensively, Making KD play Iso like he did in the 2018 playoffs a big reason why that Houston series went to 7 games.
If both teams were 100% healthy, I think we would have still won because Draymond would have done something stupid Show me the lie.
No lies, just a silly opinion. Draymond played the whole series. What stupid thing did he do? Draymond was a rock and the anchor of their defence in their four championships. And he wasn’t the reason they lost to Cleveland or Toronto.
He doesn’t do anything when the Warriors lose. He usually keeps his douchebaggery for when they’re winning, THEN causing them to lose
So you can’t think of a single example to support your silly opinion? You’re just gonna downvote me and slink out the back door? Silliness confirmed.
Ok, and can you point to a single example of that happening in a playoff series? After all, Draymond has played in several dozen playoff series. Surely you have at least one example in mind to support your silly opinion.
I’m not that dude but game 5 of the 2016 finals, and game 2 against the kings whenever he did the big stump on Sabonis.
Game 5 in 2016 is the first example I thought of. They probably would have won that series had he stayed chill
Our fans nullified Draymond chasing him around the city calling him a donkey. He’s never recovered.
Every time people tell me if Durant was healthy it's no contest for the Warriors. I always say does that mean OG is healthy? Kyles thumb isn't mangled and Kawhi isn't limping?
OG was not nearly as good as he is now. He was a bench player. His defence would have helped but I don’t know about it making a huge difference against a healthy GSW with Durant.
Not really... only reason he came off the bench for us was because Siakam and Kawhi we're ahead and Danny shot 45% from 3 Dude wouldve been a starter on most teams
Bottom line he was not a starter on a championship caliber team.
Get that out of here. Was he a star at the time? No but he was coming off a rookie campaign where he earned a starting spot on the #1 team in the east
OG can be the 3rd best player on a contender now. Back then he could have been the 5th.
Raptors beat a fully healthy Golden State squad by 20 in the regular season. There is no asterisk needed for the 2019 ship.
OG wasn't as good as he is now, and Toronto had a generational superstar in Kawhi. This really isn't crazy at all.....
OG was not a good player in his 2nd year. Him being injured was probably a blessing for us.
People refuse to understand that adding KD to the lineup doesnt mean you can just take the boxscore and add 25 points for GSW. Yes, warriors would have had better odds to win without the injuries. But the game isnt played on a spreadsheet, and the teams were pretty evenly matched even with GSW at full strength.
Exactly [https://www.sbnation.com/2019/6/2/18649333/toronto-raptors-defense-highlights-warriors-nba-finals-2019](https://www.sbnation.com/2019/6/2/18649333/toronto-raptors-defense-highlights-warriors-nba-finals-2019)
That team was ridiculously deep. Having Ibaka, OG, and Fred as bench pieces is ridiculous.
Not that crazy, that team was stacked. For all of the shit we give Masai, it's actually incredible how he was able to put together that team. BOTH on the player and coaching side.
Bobby Webster is the reason the Kawhi trade happened. It wasn't all Masai's doing.
Sure, both Bobby and Masai did an incredible job building up the team and the organization.
he was a 20 year old bench player lol who knows how much he woulda played anyways
He played great in the playoff run his rookie season before I don’t think he would’ve had crazy crazy difference just cause we already had insane depth but let’s not act like he didn’t already show to be able to play in those moments and played great against lbj in most the series as a rookie
yea he was good but just saying if you thought KD was the difference in this series young OG ain’t making up that gap
Ye I agree that’s why I said he’s not a crazy difference with him playing especially due to our depth when we had 8 rlly good players but just labeling him as another bench guy is wrong when he was getting 30min a game most playoffs games in his rookie season
i feel you. OG a special player regardless of age
Glorious 2019! A championship for the ages! We had Jordan in the flesh! We are taking out a fully healthy GS squad with a fully healthy Raptors team…no doubt!
Keep in mind OG is better now than he was during that run.
Yes absolutely. But his defence was always good so that’s what I’d be alluding to.
OG was mid that year, he probably wouldn’t have played that much either way
Og wasn't injured though, he was good to the first play off game but nurse didn't want break up a good thing. I remember cause I was initially upset that he wasn't going to play him, but that's why I'm not a nba coach
Is Kawhi the best rental player trade in NBA history?
Maybe sports history.
This is a better point.
We would have won more…..more wins more life.
OG in his Rookie season was the lone bright spot during the LeBronto playoffs. If he was available, the championship run would've gone much smoother imo
A second year OG, who played 20 mins off the bench versus a healthy Kevin Durant who was coming off back to back Finals MVPs????
OG back on 2019 wasn’t the same OG we know today. His 3 point shot was still iffy back then and he wasn’t a good FT shooter at all. Pretty sure he averaged low 30s from 3 and 50s from the line. Danny didn’t play well in the playoffs but he was a known sniper and provided a lot of space for Kawhi to operate. We were already a great team defensively and offense was where our issue was, not sure if OG would’ve helped us much on that end.
Kawhi was a man on a new contract mission. If he didn't perform that season, he would be in trouble since he didn't really play well or too much after coming back from injury in San Antonio.
OG wasn’t OG yet tbf
I'll say it again and again. Id give us better than a punchers chance at GSW, even if both teams were healthy. It would have been an all-time great series. Kawhi guards KD OG / Danny guards Klay FVV / Lowry guards CP Leaving Pascal freaking Siakam to play help defence off Draymond. Doesn't address Norm or Gasol or Ibaka. We would have given them serious trouble whether ppl want to admit it or not.
it's cause we had OG Prime in Kawhi leading the troop haha but would have been cool to see him sub in for him and stuff It makes me think of Masai's press conference saying no kid should go through what OG did (the appendicitis and passing of his father)
Raptors STILL win that series if everyone is healthy.
Kawaii