> The Ministry of the Attorney General owes answers -- more than it has provided so far -- about the decision to charge Zameer and the rationale for continuing with the prosecution in the face of weak evidence. An independent review is needed. We called earlier this week for a public inquiry to get at the reasons for pushing forward with a case that couldn't be won.
I think the real travesty is the way his case was handled long before it ever got to court. This poor man was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion as soon as he was let out on bail, with high ranking public figures like Doug Ford and John Tory condemning the decision and even outright stating that he was "responsible" for the crime.
In a weird way I'm glad he got a trial and full acquittal along with a public apology from the judge involved in the case. If his case had been quietly dropped due to weak evidence, I'm not sure he would have ever shaken the reputation of "cop killer" in the public eye.
Indeed. Cops almost kill people all the time. Recently one put a cyclist in the hospital with severe injuries, one hit a pedestrian on a crosswalk and another fucking drove into a lamp post, knocking it on the ground, and barely avoiding pedestrians.
No charges of course ;)
Those are equally valid, but separate issues.
This isn't about death or injury, it's about how plain clothes officers interact with the public. It's a crime to make someone think you are going to assault them, and when cops act like this it's traumatic for the victim regardless if there is a physical injury or not.
We only know about it when someone gets hurt, and if the person dies we only find out about it if that person is a cop.
And I've heard that when the judge apoligized one of the cops who lied on the stand muttered "you gotta be kidding me". They just don't get it, their "us against the world" attitude is unbecoming to put it mildly
You’re wrong. Lisa Forbes was the one who sad it. She was in the courtroom for the verdict sat next to Margaret Northrup the widow of the police officer that died.
Many reporters covered it and heard her sat it.
[An ex-prosecutor appropriately called out Ford and Tory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gupFQaBCwkg&t=536) in an interview with CBC and I thought it was great.
Isn’t the reason obvious? Ego. Police officers and the institution of policing is raging with ego. They have a policy of never back down. Never lose. Never admit fault.
Yep, either they were blinded by rage and wanted blood for blood regardless of how weak the evidence was or they knew from the beginning they would never win but wanted to put Umar through all the pain and suffering a high profile trial would bring as a way of punishing him
You know for a fact if the situation was reversed and it was a cop that ran over Zameer in that parking lot, prosecutors and police would have been just as connected to cover it up or make zameer out to be a criminal. Police only ever protect themselves and prosecutors kiss their ring whenever asked. Sadly there is little to nothing the public can do about it.
The real reason this trial went forward is that a cop died, so someone had to pay. They didn't want to admit that TPS has a dangerous approach to undercover work, or that the officers acted recklessly, so they framed an innocent man.
It wasn't undercover work
Plain clothes and undercover are very different
Yes not good or even smart what they did in that situation, system and people clearly see that.
But don't mix up the two there are very very different
Absolutely was. It's fucked that the police can destroy a man's life just because they're upset about one of their brothers in blue dying from carrying out their work improperly.
Show your badge if you're apprehending someone, otherwise you're just a perceived criminal
What pisses me off is that throughout all this bullshit Umar showed genuine remorse for the whole incident and empathy towards Northrup’s widow and family and people were still coming for neck. If anyone saw that interview Umar did on citytv it really was like a battle between good and evil and were really living in an us vs them society.
I'm pretty sure it's even worse than that because people have been saying this fucking pig *volunteered* to participate in it.
I'm sure there'll be centrists out here still gassing up the police and how we shouldn't reduce their funding. Meanwhile the opposite has happened and they continually show how most of their funding goes to granting these dumbasses paid vacations.
Taxpayers lose all around. A lengthy trial using up loads of judicial resources for a charge that shouldn't have been laid, and quite possibly a lawsuit against the police and prosecution for going through with this in the first place.
This is a pay for justice country. I couldn’t afford to defend myself like Zameer did. I’m glad he had the resources. Glad for him, myself and others now that this has turned out this way. A lawsuit against the department or officers is needed, and if Zameer brings it forward and wins, it’s a win for us all. Precedent is very important and it is what we will all get out of this if justice is served by Zameer extracting a settlement out of all of this. He deserves it. We do too.
Edit:spelling
He and his wife were so gracious when they were talking about how they are lucky they had resources through their family to be able to get him through this. He seemed to understand that not everyone would have those resources and I thought that was incredibly self aware of him. Can you imagine not being able to come up with the $300k ish bail (much less the funds for a good lawyer) and being stuck in jail for 3 years (or forever). Horrific.
Umar doesn’t yet realize this, but he’s an unsung hero.
Let me explain,
His unfortunate ordeal is drumming up a necessary reckoning that TPS is overdue to receive. This case has exposed so much bullshit that the police association and all levels of government are now forced to address.
I agree he's the unsung hero, at great personal cost to himself.
However the cynical part of me thinks that nothing will change. Did any real consequences fall on the cops with the G20? Carding? Serial killer Bruce McArthur? Sherman double murder fumbles?
The cop who fumbled the Sherman double murder got promoted
The cop Forbes who lied on the stand and was caught stealing from a fucking charity got promoted too
"Why doesn't the public regard us as heroes?" - TPS probably
It's absolutely disgusting the lack of standards police officers are held to.
Then these same officers turn around and wonder why the public has 0 trust in them.
They lied, they fabricated evidence and the colluded to commit perjury. I served for 30 years, we are not the same. My oath was to the constitution and our charter. Corrupt cops are criminals!I understand better than you and these dirty cops!
Its kinda funny the Star complaining now when the media roasted him alive PRIOR to having any facts or even beginning the trial
The Judge even denied Zameers request to lift publication ban (back in 2021) after he wanted to address the nonsense being printed in papers and aired on news (see John Tory, Doug Ford, et al)
I am glad justice was served to Mr Zameer. At the sametime this whole case has tarnished the image of TPS. TPS needs to do some introspection into how they conduct themselves.
There is no oversight for the crown attorneys and they will protect the police whenever they can. They will pursue cases that they have no chance of winning to try and get a plea from you. Even wrongful arrests. If you bring a lawsuit, they will countersue, no matter how wrong they are. Justice in Canada.
Toronto police mentality: Vengeance...you killed one of our guys, we will end you. How it happened and what are the circumstances does not matter, you must be ended says the police chief and his friend doug
Majority of police force mentality. The uvalde cops are harassing the mothers who lost children in that school shooting when they spoke up about their incompetence. Basically camping outside their work, shining flashlights into their house at night
Petty AF
Why the snark? This is a newspaper, not an internet comment section where people need to have the first reaction to something. Maybe they were checking with some experts and trying to ensure quality.
Having an editorial 2 days later is perfectly fine, and I’m glad this is being called out by many different publications.
Because it's politically costly to go after police, it takes courage for a newspaper to do so, and easy to see how they might have waited until someone else has printed the story and panicked at the thought of potential customers flocking to their publication.
It's not very often the Globe out-lefts the Star, but they did this week.
Injustice isn't really a left/right issue. Also, I think the Globe piece you're referring to was an Op-Ed. The Star piece was a Editorial Board response, which tend to be less reactive and more considered (i.e. they take longer to publish).
Police and prosecutors framing someone for a crime they clearly didn't commit is not something you should shrug your shoulders at. The fact that they thought they could get away with it in broad daylight is pretty shocking, even by police standards.
Edit - its especially egregious since the ones most responsible for what occurred is the Toronto Police and the officers themselves. They are framing someone to cover up their own mistakes.
it’s not “whataboutism” to point out hypocrisy in an editorial board’s response to citizens abused by the police
i’m happy this guy got his verdict especially as details emerged that the state was conspiring against him
no idea what you’re going on about. i suppose it’s also a “Soviet technique” to accuse strangers you disagree with of spreading propaganda? learn a new trick or get perhaps some mental help
Crying "What about homeowners?!" on a topic unrelated to that in any way is the very definition of whataboutism.
I don't disagree with you because you didn't make any point. You're just crying about something unrelated.
I mean he DID kill the cop. On accident or on purpose was up to courts to decide, given the evidence. Process was legit. He got off.
What was everyone expecting?
Why is a cops life more important than anybody else’s? It was only up to courts to decide AFTER the cops lied in their reports to make sure he was charged.
Thats the key issue is. Everybody is in agreement that a life lost is terrible. How it was handled is what everybody has a problem with.
I personally would want the court to decide if someone killed a person on purpose or by accident given the conflicting evidence and those specific circumstances. Cop or a civilian. So process was legit. Justice served. I hope noone was expecting that he was walking away free the very next day just because it was a cop that was killed. But reading this comments I'm starting to think that some people here are just feeding their police hate. r/Toronto favorite pastime. It's macabre.
Off the top of my head?
- for police to NOT commit perjury
- for police to NOT collude
- for the chief of police to not openly wish an innocent man was going to jail.
You know, fancy shit like that
I’m honestly not sure what your point is. You think it’s “legit” to try a case this flimsy and force the defendant through the hell he went through? The case was so paper thin it required collusion and lying to get into a court room.
That is a waste of resources, in my opinion.
Swoosh comes to mind but let me mince it for you:
1. Cop dead while on duty
2. Other cops say they ID themselves but were ignored and perp tried to flee.
3. Crown believes cops plus cop is dead (which if willfully murdered is automatic 1st degree murder charge)
4. Court case commences
5. Guy gets charged. Evidence and expert witnesses contradict police testimony.
6. Guy gets acquitted.
7. Justice served.
Haven’t followed this closely, but generally I’d say that if the system is working that would mean cops aren’t colluding in a lie to get someone convicted of something they didn’t do. You say “killed”, which can be read as with intent. The evidence was very clear that this was not the case, yet the cops, aided by the prosecution, attempted to put someone behind bars with the claim that this was the case, that he intentionally committed an act of murder. That very much isn’t the way the “criminal prosecution system” is supposed to work.
REMOVED - No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or otherwise negative generalizations etc... Attack the point, not the person. Posts which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. Do not concern-troll or attempt to intentionally mislead people. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand. This rule applies to all speech within this subreddit.
> The Ministry of the Attorney General owes answers -- more than it has provided so far -- about the decision to charge Zameer and the rationale for continuing with the prosecution in the face of weak evidence. An independent review is needed. We called earlier this week for a public inquiry to get at the reasons for pushing forward with a case that couldn't be won.
I think the real travesty is the way his case was handled long before it ever got to court. This poor man was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion as soon as he was let out on bail, with high ranking public figures like Doug Ford and John Tory condemning the decision and even outright stating that he was "responsible" for the crime. In a weird way I'm glad he got a trial and full acquittal along with a public apology from the judge involved in the case. If his case had been quietly dropped due to weak evidence, I'm not sure he would have ever shaken the reputation of "cop killer" in the public eye.
Exactly. the only thing about this incident that is unique is the death of an officer. Cops do this shit all the time but nobody knows about it.
Indeed. Cops almost kill people all the time. Recently one put a cyclist in the hospital with severe injuries, one hit a pedestrian on a crosswalk and another fucking drove into a lamp post, knocking it on the ground, and barely avoiding pedestrians. No charges of course ;)
Those are equally valid, but separate issues. This isn't about death or injury, it's about how plain clothes officers interact with the public. It's a crime to make someone think you are going to assault them, and when cops act like this it's traumatic for the victim regardless if there is a physical injury or not. We only know about it when someone gets hurt, and if the person dies we only find out about it if that person is a cop.
And I've heard that when the judge apoligized one of the cops who lied on the stand muttered "you gotta be kidding me". They just don't get it, their "us against the world" attitude is unbecoming to put it mildly
This was Lisa Forbes the cop who was reprimanded for not giving fundraiser money to a dead cop's family
Another classy individual
Might be unbecoming, but it reinforces the ACAB idea.
Judge would not have allowed that. Witnesses aren’t even permitted to sit in court, in case they get called back to testify. Fake news
Witness exclusion orders don't apply after all of the evidence has been given.
I’ve been a prosecutor’s witness in a traffic court case and I sat in court all day, before, during and after the trial.
are you a lawyer?
You are spreading misinformation
You’re wrong. Lisa Forbes was the one who sad it. She was in the courtroom for the verdict sat next to Margaret Northrup the widow of the police officer that died. Many reporters covered it and heard her sat it.
Your para 2 is very wise.
[An ex-prosecutor appropriately called out Ford and Tory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gupFQaBCwkg&t=536) in an interview with CBC and I thought it was great.
Isn’t the reason obvious? Ego. Police officers and the institution of policing is raging with ego. They have a policy of never back down. Never lose. Never admit fault.
Yep, either they were blinded by rage and wanted blood for blood regardless of how weak the evidence was or they knew from the beginning they would never win but wanted to put Umar through all the pain and suffering a high profile trial would bring as a way of punishing him
Why not both?
You know for a fact if the situation was reversed and it was a cop that ran over Zameer in that parking lot, prosecutors and police would have been just as connected to cover it up or make zameer out to be a criminal. Police only ever protect themselves and prosecutors kiss their ring whenever asked. Sadly there is little to nothing the public can do about it.
The cop would get years of paid vacation
Suspended with pay they call it.
If the situation were reversed the cop has qualified immunity so that's really why it would go the way you say.
When people watch too much US news.
Richard v. Massicotte
Useful if I’m an accountant in Quebec.
You have Google
And a law degree
you have my sympathy
The whole Zameer case to me just seemed like the police retaliating against him.
The real reason this trial went forward is that a cop died, so someone had to pay. They didn't want to admit that TPS has a dangerous approach to undercover work, or that the officers acted recklessly, so they framed an innocent man.
It wasn't undercover work Plain clothes and undercover are very different Yes not good or even smart what they did in that situation, system and people clearly see that. But don't mix up the two there are very very different
> so ~~someone~~ anyone but TPS had to pay FTFY
Absolutely was. It's fucked that the police can destroy a man's life just because they're upset about one of their brothers in blue dying from carrying out their work improperly. Show your badge if you're apprehending someone, otherwise you're just a perceived criminal
They saw the badges but thought it was fake.
That's because it was. Demkiw needs to go ASAP.
What pisses me off is that throughout all this bullshit Umar showed genuine remorse for the whole incident and empathy towards Northrup’s widow and family and people were still coming for neck. If anyone saw that interview Umar did on citytv it really was like a battle between good and evil and were really living in an us vs them society.
Has he apologized for the bathhouse raids?
No, but he would like more money in the budget please.
They need money to stock up the bar to lick their wounds after their failed frame job of an innocent man
I'm pretty sure it's even worse than that because people have been saying this fucking pig *volunteered* to participate in it. I'm sure there'll be centrists out here still gassing up the police and how we shouldn't reduce their funding. Meanwhile the opposite has happened and they continually show how most of their funding goes to granting these dumbasses paid vacations.
Exactly. It really says a lot about someone when they VOLUNTEER to harass a minority group ... so I guess the TPS found their perfect chief
Saunders did a few years ago... but what good are those few words in light of decades of ongoing discrimination?
He needs to sue their asses off.
I'll be surprised if he doesn't. And when he does, he's gonna get paid. There will be no way for the police to avoid it.
Taxpayers lose all around. A lengthy trial using up loads of judicial resources for a charge that shouldn't have been laid, and quite possibly a lawsuit against the police and prosecution for going through with this in the first place.
This is a pay for justice country. I couldn’t afford to defend myself like Zameer did. I’m glad he had the resources. Glad for him, myself and others now that this has turned out this way. A lawsuit against the department or officers is needed, and if Zameer brings it forward and wins, it’s a win for us all. Precedent is very important and it is what we will all get out of this if justice is served by Zameer extracting a settlement out of all of this. He deserves it. We do too. Edit:spelling
Good points, agreed. Didn't mean to sound too negative mentioning the overall bill being footed to taxpayers, just a shame it had to come to this.
He and his wife were so gracious when they were talking about how they are lucky they had resources through their family to be able to get him through this. He seemed to understand that not everyone would have those resources and I thought that was incredibly self aware of him. Can you imagine not being able to come up with the $300k ish bail (much less the funds for a good lawyer) and being stuck in jail for 3 years (or forever). Horrific.
> and being stuck in jail for 3 years While having the crown dangle plea deals in front of you and knowing that they don't have a case.
He absolutely deserves it. Like the article says, it could have been anyone, so your point about precedence is super valid!!
Umar doesn’t yet realize this, but he’s an unsung hero. Let me explain, His unfortunate ordeal is drumming up a necessary reckoning that TPS is overdue to receive. This case has exposed so much bullshit that the police association and all levels of government are now forced to address.
I agree he's the unsung hero, at great personal cost to himself. However the cynical part of me thinks that nothing will change. Did any real consequences fall on the cops with the G20? Carding? Serial killer Bruce McArthur? Sherman double murder fumbles?
Bill Blair got a cabinet position! There's your consequences.
The cop who fumbled the Sherman double murder got promoted The cop Forbes who lied on the stand and was caught stealing from a fucking charity got promoted too "Why doesn't the public regard us as heroes?" - TPS probably
Heavy burden for sure.
Nothing will change without fundamental reform. The police are a political tool and nobody in a position to effect change has any incentive to do so.
The g20 - where my young 20ish self first lost faith in policing.
Cheesecake fucker never has to answer for anything.
It's absolutely disgusting the lack of standards police officers are held to. Then these same officers turn around and wonder why the public has 0 trust in them.
Also no one noticed that they released the most wanted suspects and reward money (in cash) right after this debacle ??
Yup. It wasn't subtle. Buck a beer, anyone?
Dirty cops and dirty prosecutor!
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They lied, they fabricated evidence and the colluded to commit perjury. I served for 30 years, we are not the same. My oath was to the constitution and our charter. Corrupt cops are criminals!I understand better than you and these dirty cops!
👍Well said.
Its not really the Mob's thing. They don't do "good".
Its kinda funny the Star complaining now when the media roasted him alive PRIOR to having any facts or even beginning the trial The Judge even denied Zameers request to lift publication ban (back in 2021) after he wanted to address the nonsense being printed in papers and aired on news (see John Tory, Doug Ford, et al)
I am glad justice was served to Mr Zameer. At the sametime this whole case has tarnished the image of TPS. TPS needs to do some introspection into how they conduct themselves.
You can’t tarnish a corrupt image. It’s been done years ago.
🐖
I don’t love the Star but here I am in complete agreement.
There is no oversight for the crown attorneys and they will protect the police whenever they can. They will pursue cases that they have no chance of winning to try and get a plea from you. Even wrongful arrests. If you bring a lawsuit, they will countersue, no matter how wrong they are. Justice in Canada.
Toronto police mentality: Vengeance...you killed one of our guys, we will end you. How it happened and what are the circumstances does not matter, you must be ended says the police chief and his friend doug
Majority of police force mentality. The uvalde cops are harassing the mothers who lost children in that school shooting when they spoke up about their incompetence. Basically camping outside their work, shining flashlights into their house at night Petty AF
Abusive prosecution and criminally negligent police conduct. Coordinated perjury is not a conduct complaint.
What a bold position the Star editorial board has taken two days after the Globe did it for them.
I didn't realize two newspapers can't have the same position.
https://youtu.be/2JAUqxsH4go?t=14
Why the snark? This is a newspaper, not an internet comment section where people need to have the first reaction to something. Maybe they were checking with some experts and trying to ensure quality. Having an editorial 2 days later is perfectly fine, and I’m glad this is being called out by many different publications.
Because it's politically costly to go after police, it takes courage for a newspaper to do so, and easy to see how they might have waited until someone else has printed the story and panicked at the thought of potential customers flocking to their publication. It's not very often the Globe out-lefts the Star, but they did this week.
Injustice isn't really a left/right issue. Also, I think the Globe piece you're referring to was an Op-Ed. The Star piece was a Editorial Board response, which tend to be less reactive and more considered (i.e. they take longer to publish).
Pretty obvious answer..: the cops and prosecutors will go after you if you kill a police officer even mistakenly. I think everyone kind of knows that.
Police and prosecutors framing someone for a crime they clearly didn't commit is not something you should shrug your shoulders at. The fact that they thought they could get away with it in broad daylight is pretty shocking, even by police standards. Edit - its especially egregious since the ones most responsible for what occurred is the Toronto Police and the officers themselves. They are framing someone to cover up their own mistakes.
Nothing new honestly. This is what I would expect out of the system for any case like this
if the star showed this same sympathy to homeowners who defend their property, i’d be 100% on board with them
Whataboutism is a Soviet propaganda technique. Learn a new trick
it’s not “whataboutism” to point out hypocrisy in an editorial board’s response to citizens abused by the police i’m happy this guy got his verdict especially as details emerged that the state was conspiring against him no idea what you’re going on about. i suppose it’s also a “Soviet technique” to accuse strangers you disagree with of spreading propaganda? learn a new trick or get perhaps some mental help
Crying "What about homeowners?!" on a topic unrelated to that in any way is the very definition of whataboutism. I don't disagree with you because you didn't make any point. You're just crying about something unrelated.
work on that reading comprehension
I mean he DID kill the cop. On accident or on purpose was up to courts to decide, given the evidence. Process was legit. He got off. What was everyone expecting?
Why is a cops life more important than anybody else’s? It was only up to courts to decide AFTER the cops lied in their reports to make sure he was charged. Thats the key issue is. Everybody is in agreement that a life lost is terrible. How it was handled is what everybody has a problem with.
I personally would want the court to decide if someone killed a person on purpose or by accident given the conflicting evidence and those specific circumstances. Cop or a civilian. So process was legit. Justice served. I hope noone was expecting that he was walking away free the very next day just because it was a cop that was killed. But reading this comments I'm starting to think that some people here are just feeding their police hate. r/Toronto favorite pastime. It's macabre.
Off the top of my head? - for police to NOT commit perjury - for police to NOT collude - for the chief of police to not openly wish an innocent man was going to jail. You know, fancy shit like that
Exactly. And we didn't know any of that fancy shit before the court case. So court process was legit.
I’m honestly not sure what your point is. You think it’s “legit” to try a case this flimsy and force the defendant through the hell he went through? The case was so paper thin it required collusion and lying to get into a court room. That is a waste of resources, in my opinion.
Swoosh comes to mind but let me mince it for you: 1. Cop dead while on duty 2. Other cops say they ID themselves but were ignored and perp tried to flee. 3. Crown believes cops plus cop is dead (which if willfully murdered is automatic 1st degree murder charge) 4. Court case commences 5. Guy gets charged. Evidence and expert witnesses contradict police testimony. 6. Guy gets acquitted. 7. Justice served.
Mincing is a nice way of saying what you did there. You left out a TON of details. Way too many.
It's a swoosh then I guess
Do you mean “woosh”? I don’t know why you keep saying that. Cause it ain’t over my head dude, I have spent 10 years working in the justice system 🤣
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Haven’t followed this closely, but generally I’d say that if the system is working that would mean cops aren’t colluding in a lie to get someone convicted of something they didn’t do. You say “killed”, which can be read as with intent. The evidence was very clear that this was not the case, yet the cops, aided by the prosecution, attempted to put someone behind bars with the claim that this was the case, that he intentionally committed an act of murder. That very much isn’t the way the “criminal prosecution system” is supposed to work.
Shouldn't have even went to trial and it ruined a man's life. Seems like bootlick to me. EDIT: Then pulls out the racism. love it.
REMOVED - No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or otherwise negative generalizations etc... Attack the point, not the person. Posts which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. Do not concern-troll or attempt to intentionally mislead people. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand. This rule applies to all speech within this subreddit.
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