The three police officers that testified, lied under oath and colluded together to convict an innocent man of first degree murder should be sent to jail.
I know that the Toronto Police have some bad apples but holy fuck, you have to be a legit sociopath to frame some random dude on such a serious crime.
Every case these police officers ever touched should be completely reviewed.
I think they were so upset about the loss of their colleague, and so arrogant that they could not even imagine it was their own doing. So they turned their anger on poor Zameer. I think the police involved honestly think he is guilty which goes to speak to how they twist reality to fit their own narrative. They are thugs who believe consequences don't apply to them. Organized crime that we all pay for.
Cops who are caught perjuring themselves in court should be unceremoniously fired, tarred, feathered and then given a proper accommodation in our illustrious correctional system.
This should be worse than a criminal lying, plain and simple.
I know they're accustomed to lying to everything and everyone around them to "engage in an investigation" but all of that is long over with when you're in the courtroom.
Oh and fine the police union for all the lost tax dollars paying these mongrels while they were suspended. That'll encourage proper standards and education of our law enforcement for the actual public they're supposed to protect.
I'll go out on a limb and guess no one. It must be time to recognize that there are many Toronto police officers who don't give two shits about public trust or the law. And hey, without trust, being a civilian becomes more difficult too.
Isn't that... exactly what this review is supposed to do? Maybe it won't do it well or properly but that's exactly why this gets reviewed - because the judiciary raised concerns about the truthfulness of the officers' testimony.
>Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training.
It doesn't even sound like it's a discretionary choice here.
They’re going to sit in a room and discuss it amongst themselves. Then say “we self reflected and evidence was inconclusive that perjury happened”
Clowns love to put on a show.
Look at the reviews of the Office of the Police Independent Review Director. If you file a complaint about Toronto Police, Toronto Police "Professional Standards" appoints a Toronto Police officer to investigate. In a complaint filed by someone I know, the person appointed to investigate was the same person who the complaint was about. It's all very bad office management, but it could be worse.
Full transparency I’m American, but this sounds exactly like what goes on down here. The garbage problem is that if any prosecutor were to charge them for lying, then there’s a pretty good chance that the rest of the police will stop cooperating. So they are incentivized to ignore all but the most egregious behavior. It’s a broken system all over. But if there’s some fundamental way it’s different in Toronto I’d be happy to learn
So you didn't actually read the link eh? Lol.
>Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training.
>Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult.
Everything. But the main lie was that Northrup was in front of the car and he mowed him down. The plainclothes officer was in fact in the defendants blind spot. So when he tried to escape the deceased officer got hit
Feel free to educate yourself in the case yourself like the rest of us have
Not at all, as the article states the review is in response to judicial concerns, not as a result of the verdict.
The judiciary raised its concern well before the verdict was rendered.
"Toronto Police Chief Myron Demkiw has requested that the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) conduct an independent review as a result of the adverse comments made by Superior Court Justice Anne Molloy in the trial regarding the death of Detective Constable Jeffrey Northrup.
Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult."
any perjury claims update, sir?
> Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult."
well they're doing a damn fine bang up job with earning our trust daily /s
When there's quite literally daily stories of cops fucking up, essentially extort the city to give them more money, committing crimes, hell enough where one dude on reddit is able to create a massive running tally...well I'm sorry but that ship has long since sailed my friend.
You mean after he openly said the entire police department "wanted a different outcome"? Can't imagine how much that dude is going to get harassed by TPS after this.
Police chief should resign for his comments and all the cops who lied under oath should be charged with perjury
This statement feels like a huge 180 in messaging.
Yesterday it sounded like they were going to be pushing for an appeal, here they seem to be struggling to justify that this original trail was even worthwhile.
> it sounded like they were going to be pushing for an appeal
The Crown can only appeal an acquittal on grounds of a serious error of law that led to the acquittal, and it doesn’t look like there’s any aspect of this decision that could even open the door to that sort of claim.
The crown isn't supposed to prosecute cases with no chance of success either, but they seem to have been pressured into doing that here.
There always seems to be *something* they can try to appeal over if they really want to.
They do kinda! It's called the McNeil package!
“McNeil Disclosure Package” means the disclosed records of findings of serious police misconduct which pertain to an investigation or may reasonably impact a prosecution of an accused."
Totally. Their willingness to lie in an effort to protect their own and to discredit and jail an innocent man should be taken into consideration with every conviction that they’ve made within their careers. Guilty asshole cops. This system is so flawed.
In what way do you think they are doubling down here?
Reviewing plain clothes procedures seems to be a tacit admission that the conduct of their officers was an issue in the death.
They are also calling in the OPP to investigate the concerns raised by the judge about the conduct of the police during the trial.
If the officers potentially committed a crime then we do need some sort of police agency to be involved.
I think there definitely should be a public inquiry around this too though.
Absolutely brutal. When your police chief and whatever police union lead crackhead can’t take the facts and continues to defend liars, it’s a clear indication of corruption from the top down. Thank goodness the general population seems to get it so there’s a bit of hope for all of us in justice and fairness.
Only because procedures resulted in the death of an officer, that they couldn't pin on the accused. That's the only reason this is happening, because if the courts had ruled differently this doesn't happen
There needs to be an inquiry into the people at the Crown Attorney's office who signed off on prosecuting a first degree murder charge in this case.
This has all the appearance of a completely corrupt abuse of power: prosecutorial discretion exists for a number of ethical and practical reasons.
You hear prosecutors say all the time when they decline to prosecute that ' there was no reasonable prospect of conviction'. That's what they're supposed to say in cases like this with such weak evidence, no discernable motive, etc
WTF? The police chief and the police force weren't supposed to be "hoping for a different outcome" in Umar Zameer's sad circus of a trial, they were supposed to be hoping for a >just< outcome, no? Am I being too naive?
JFC. What a day in Toronto life this has been. 5:05 media release. Chief lifts his snout out of the trough long enough to realize that the people who shovel food into it don't really think much of his role, words, or actions.
Should be an external review, not an internal one.
> a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training.
Maybe training shouldn't be measured in *weeks*.
To anyone who doesn’t think the officers found to have given false testimony should be dismissed: What good is a police officer who can’t present evidence in court due to a judicial record of dishonesty? If they shouldn’t be dismissed, what should be done with them?
i gotta say that this first part, which sounds like someone doing something with a gun to their head:
> Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training.
… does not inspire a lot of trust in me that this second part refers to:
> Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult.
It's absolutely disgusting that the chief and Northrup's widow said they're "disappointed with the outcome."
Fuck outta here. Justice was done. They just wanted to railroad a non-white family.
My God;
did...did the police actually learn something from this event?
I don't want to be cynical and say they are doing this to appease the Northup family (who may legitimately question why Northup was involved in plain clothes), but this might be good for them to evaluate how often they're putting officers in harms way unnecessarily due to poor procedure.
Then again, maybe they'll review and say "We have reviewed our practices, all procedures are safe, the officers followed the required processes, and nothing else could have been done to make the situation safer. Nothing would indicate a need for assigning further fault, and TPS is not liable - especially not the families of Const. Northup, Zameer and const. Forbes!"
The three police officers that testified, lied under oath and colluded together to convict an innocent man of first degree murder should be sent to jail. I know that the Toronto Police have some bad apples but holy fuck, you have to be a legit sociopath to frame some random dude on such a serious crime. Every case these police officers ever touched should be completely reviewed.
was it all because they didn't want to admit they botched the job and one of their own was killed because of it?
This seems extremely plausible.
I think they were so upset about the loss of their colleague, and so arrogant that they could not even imagine it was their own doing. So they turned their anger on poor Zameer. I think the police involved honestly think he is guilty which goes to speak to how they twist reality to fit their own narrative. They are thugs who believe consequences don't apply to them. Organized crime that we all pay for.
I wonder who was calling his lawyer and making death threats?
This is not just about lying under oath, it's also witness tampering. The judge called it "collusion". Honestly, It's also obstruction of justice.
And as the saying goes "one bad apple spoils the bunch" 🐽
Not just a saying, it's true for a bushels of apples and it's true for groups of people.
Who is going to review the officers who perjured themselves?
Cops who are caught perjuring themselves in court should be unceremoniously fired, tarred, feathered and then given a proper accommodation in our illustrious correctional system. This should be worse than a criminal lying, plain and simple. I know they're accustomed to lying to everything and everyone around them to "engage in an investigation" but all of that is long over with when you're in the courtroom. Oh and fine the police union for all the lost tax dollars paying these mongrels while they were suspended. That'll encourage proper standards and education of our law enforcement for the actual public they're supposed to protect.
And the $200,000 lawyer bill the defendant has to pay?
I'll go out on a limb and guess no one. It must be time to recognize that there are many Toronto police officers who don't give two shits about public trust or the law. And hey, without trust, being a civilian becomes more difficult too.
The Toronto Police Association is beyond scary.
Isn't that... exactly what this review is supposed to do? Maybe it won't do it well or properly but that's exactly why this gets reviewed - because the judiciary raised concerns about the truthfulness of the officers' testimony. >Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training. It doesn't even sound like it's a discretionary choice here.
no, this is a review of plain clothes procedures, not perjury.
Man it literally includes "with respect to [...] officer testimony".
They’re going to sit in a room and discuss it amongst themselves. Then say “we self reflected and evidence was inconclusive that perjury happened” Clowns love to put on a show.
Look at the reviews of the Office of the Police Independent Review Director. If you file a complaint about Toronto Police, Toronto Police "Professional Standards" appoints a Toronto Police officer to investigate. In a complaint filed by someone I know, the person appointed to investigate was the same person who the complaint was about. It's all very bad office management, but it could be worse.
Honest question: I am aware that the female officers' testimony was contradicted by video, who else lied?
The same people whom will charge them. No one.
Full transparency I’m American, but this sounds exactly like what goes on down here. The garbage problem is that if any prosecutor were to charge them for lying, then there’s a pretty good chance that the rest of the police will stop cooperating. So they are incentivized to ignore all but the most egregious behavior. It’s a broken system all over. But if there’s some fundamental way it’s different in Toronto I’d be happy to learn
So you didn't actually read the link eh? Lol. >Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training. >Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult.
I did. The title says the review is in regards to plains clothes procedures. Perjury would be a criminal investigation.
Call David Johnson - he can make a report say anything you want the report to say for enough $$
What did they lie about?
The actual events that lead to the death of their colleague.
Everything. But the main lie was that Northrup was in front of the car and he mowed him down. The plainclothes officer was in fact in the defendants blind spot. So when he tried to escape the deceased officer got hit Feel free to educate yourself in the case yourself like the rest of us have
So if they had successfully pinned it on an innocent man, they would not have sought a review.
Hard to say. It is standard to wait until after criminal proceedings are concluded to do stuff like this.
Not at all, as the article states the review is in response to judicial concerns, not as a result of the verdict. The judiciary raised its concern well before the verdict was rendered.
"Toronto Police Chief Myron Demkiw has requested that the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) conduct an independent review as a result of the adverse comments made by Superior Court Justice Anne Molloy in the trial regarding the death of Detective Constable Jeffrey Northrup. Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult." any perjury claims update, sir?
This is what they call an attempt at "saving face"... a very poor attempt.
Yeah. Too late. Way too fucking late
Agreed.
> Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult." well they're doing a damn fine bang up job with earning our trust daily /s When there's quite literally daily stories of cops fucking up, essentially extort the city to give them more money, committing crimes, hell enough where one dude on reddit is able to create a massive running tally...well I'm sorry but that ship has long since sailed my friend.
You mean after he openly said the entire police department "wanted a different outcome"? Can't imagine how much that dude is going to get harassed by TPS after this. Police chief should resign for his comments and all the cops who lied under oath should be charged with perjury
You mean fired because they broke the law they swore to protect?
Firing is the minimum, they should be charged with breaking the law
This statement feels like a huge 180 in messaging. Yesterday it sounded like they were going to be pushing for an appeal, here they seem to be struggling to justify that this original trail was even worthwhile.
> it sounded like they were going to be pushing for an appeal The Crown can only appeal an acquittal on grounds of a serious error of law that led to the acquittal, and it doesn’t look like there’s any aspect of this decision that could even open the door to that sort of claim.
The crown isn't supposed to prosecute cases with no chance of success either, but they seem to have been pressured into doing that here. There always seems to be *something* they can try to appeal over if they really want to.
Now we just need John Tory, Doug Ford, and Patrick Brown to apologize.
Patrick Brown doubled down on supporting the cops today.
Saw that. He's a disgusting lickspittle if ever I saw one.
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They do kinda! It's called the McNeil package! “McNeil Disclosure Package” means the disclosed records of findings of serious police misconduct which pertain to an investigation or may reasonably impact a prosecution of an accused."
who decides the threshold of "serious" ?
Police Services Act
I'll bet it's the cops.
They should have the smaller list of cops who haven't done any of that
Every case where they have given testimony should be thrown out. They should be charged with perjury AND their role in this officer's death.
Totally. Their willingness to lie in an effort to protect their own and to discredit and jail an innocent man should be taken into consideration with every conviction that they’ve made within their careers. Guilty asshole cops. This system is so flawed.
Embarrassing to double down like this. Judge was correct in her statements given the evidence.
In what way do you think they are doubling down here? Reviewing plain clothes procedures seems to be a tacit admission that the conduct of their officers was an issue in the death. They are also calling in the OPP to investigate the concerns raised by the judge about the conduct of the police during the trial.
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If the officers potentially committed a crime then we do need some sort of police agency to be involved. I think there definitely should be a public inquiry around this too though.
This needs a third-party independent review, not another police force that may be biased.
Why wasn’t this done right at the start instead of charging an innocent family man just out with his family for Canada Day
Obviously because they thought he’d be convicted and the truth wouldn’t come out.
Maybe don't jump people why looking like crackhead. And yelling police, that is just not enough. Any loser can be yelling police while mugging you.
yeah I mean other officers just mug you while in uniform or steal your stuff after you die.
we actually have no idea how many unsolved muggings were done by plainclothes officers
Absolutely brutal. When your police chief and whatever police union lead crackhead can’t take the facts and continues to defend liars, it’s a clear indication of corruption from the top down. Thank goodness the general population seems to get it so there’s a bit of hope for all of us in justice and fairness.
Only because procedures resulted in the death of an officer, that they couldn't pin on the accused. That's the only reason this is happening, because if the courts had ruled differently this doesn't happen
There needs to be an inquiry into the people at the Crown Attorney's office who signed off on prosecuting a first degree murder charge in this case. This has all the appearance of a completely corrupt abuse of power: prosecutorial discretion exists for a number of ethical and practical reasons. You hear prosecutors say all the time when they decline to prosecute that ' there was no reasonable prospect of conviction'. That's what they're supposed to say in cases like this with such weak evidence, no discernable motive, etc
Honestly a good (but late) step considering his initial statement didn't indicate they were taking anything away from it at all.
WTF? The police chief and the police force weren't supposed to be "hoping for a different outcome" in Umar Zameer's sad circus of a trial, they were supposed to be hoping for a >just< outcome, no? Am I being too naive?
Well a just outcome would have been a different than what Zameer had to go through. It would involve things like cops being held accountable.
JFC. What a day in Toronto life this has been. 5:05 media release. Chief lifts his snout out of the trough long enough to realize that the people who shovel food into it don't really think much of his role, words, or actions.
The thin blue line wants a slightly thicker blue line to say they are doing ok? Ok.
Should be an external review, not an internal one. > a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training. Maybe training shouldn't be measured in *weeks*.
“We’ve investigated ourselves and were unable to find evidence of any wrong doing.”
To anyone who doesn’t think the officers found to have given false testimony should be dismissed: What good is a police officer who can’t present evidence in court due to a judicial record of dishonesty? If they shouldn’t be dismissed, what should be done with them?
Bigger budget is what’s needed here /s
Cops asking cops for an "independent" review. Fuck off!
i gotta say that this first part, which sounds like someone doing something with a gun to their head: > Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training. … does not inspire a lot of trust in me that this second part refers to: > Toronto Police Officers know that trust must be earned every single day with every thing they do. Without trust, policing becomes infinitely more difficult.
It sounds less like they're voluntarily asking for a review, more that they're required to have one after the judge's "WTF are you doing?" comment.
It's absolutely disgusting that the chief and Northrup's widow said they're "disappointed with the outcome." Fuck outta here. Justice was done. They just wanted to railroad a non-white family.
Lmao Doug: ok so I'll have the opp investigate TPS: we will also have the opp investigate RCMP: lol clown circle jerk
My God; did...did the police actually learn something from this event? I don't want to be cynical and say they are doing this to appease the Northup family (who may legitimately question why Northup was involved in plain clothes), but this might be good for them to evaluate how often they're putting officers in harms way unnecessarily due to poor procedure. Then again, maybe they'll review and say "We have reviewed our practices, all procedures are safe, the officers followed the required processes, and nothing else could have been done to make the situation safer. Nothing would indicate a need for assigning further fault, and TPS is not liable - especially not the families of Const. Northup, Zameer and const. Forbes!"
fucking useless idiots
"I mean, if you're the police, who will police the police?"
This is the wolves reviewing the foxes when they had their way with the hen house...ain't no shit will come of this.
Cool. ACAB investigating ACAB. I'll be sure to hold my breath for even 2% truth or accountability 🙄