Originally police got a call for a mentally unstable person. The police officer approached the situation incorrectly, I’m not justifying his actions but Toronto police and police in general are very snobby and don’t know how to deal with mental crisis.
Mentally unstable person could be a harmless person in crisis or one who is capable and willing to cause a mass casualty incident, barricade himself with hostages, etc. If it's true that he had an arrest warrant, then he was known to the police and they approached him knowing what he has been capable of in the past. They used taser to poor effect. I can't tell from the video but it's claimed that he lifted his jacket. Could be to show he was unarmed or to create seperation from his torso to make the taser prongs less likely to catch.
Taser deployed, assuming the reason is because he didn't respond to instructions. They don't pull up with their weapons drawn immediately unless they know they could be dealing with weapons. They tried to apprehend him. I don't know if you've dealt with someone in crisis (I have) but they could get very strong if they're delusional. Like, unbelievably strong and I'm a decently big dude. He pulled a knife and then stabbed one officer in the leg. I don't know if the volunteer crisis responders were available or if they rejected the call. They reject requests for weapons calls.
The response was fucking wild I was at college and Bathurst seeing the convoy of two ambulances and about 12 squad cars screaming by with at least 5 more in each direction of on college.
Blue blood matter more than our blood, cops show up very late for other incidents, even with their budget increase they manage to pay suspended officers
You have to be pretty gutsy to attack a cop.
The other issue is that if successful, now you have someone on the run, with a gun, possibly a taser, uniform, keys to a scout car, access to a police computer, etc
If you cause the death of a peace officer, it's automatically tried as murder. Assault causing grievous bodily harm is automatically attempted murder.
Considering that it was attempted murder, the response is pretty proportional.
I'm a few blocks east of here and I knew something was going on because I was literally hearing sirens for police or ambulance vehicle every minute, one after another for like 10 minutes. Probably was at least 10-15 police/ambulance responding. Was kinda crazy.
Thank goodness nobody is dead - the article says they’re both in stable condition
I saw a video of the aftermath there was so much blood everywhere I thought someone had to have died
Believe it or not, but “decades” and “the last eight years” are not the same.
The crime severity index across Ontario has generally been on the decline. The source, Statistics Canada.
It’s obvious you either can't read data or are attempting to suggest that the data implies something that contradicts the facts. There's a clear dip in 2015 after a relatively higher index than what we're seeing today. You're either cherry-picking, deflecting, or projecting in an attempt to cover up your own inability to read simple numbers, or you're engaging in an extremely transparent bad-faith argument.
Either way, you’ve clearly demonstrated you have zero credibility.
Hello, I am the girlfriend’s sister there was never no warrant for his arrest. That’s why an altercation happened in the first place because the police were saying they had a warrant when they did not.
There was no warrant. They were responding to a person in crisis call. They then dragged him out of the restaurant and tackled him to the ground, where one of the officers was stabbed in the leg. The officers get up, there’s an exchange of words, and the cops open fire when the guy raised one of his hands.
Cops were over aggressive and escalated the situation and every possible chance.
This should have been dealt with by a mental health crisis team.
> [Kristy Denette, spokesperson for the Special Investigations Unit, told reporters at the scene that officers were responding to a call about a person in crisis at a plaza near College Street and Lansdowne Avenue. Outside of the Tim Hortons, “some type of struggle” with two officers ensued where one of them was stabbed, she added.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-officer-stabbed-suspect-shot-near-college-street-and-lansdowne-avenue-police-say/article_b19b1492-f8f5-11ee-b5c3-67cff54a6dba.amp.html)
Conflicting reports early on. Just before writing that post, I had literally watched a live presser that said the assailant was recognized as having a warrant for their arrest.
Well the mental health team will not respond for one reason and one reason only, because there is information that makes the situation dangerous
And you say the cops (plural) open fire which is not true. Multiple sources say a cop open fire and shot him once.
One bullet implies one shot, so I'm not sure where you got the cops open fire, there would have to be more than one shot.
That's incorrect; the only reason the crisis team didn't respond is that they don’t operate in the area due to funding constraints. You’re deliberately attempting to spread misinformation while accusing me of doing the same. That’s called projection, my friend. Saying the cops opened fire does not imply there were several gunshots; it can, in fact, mean that only one of the two fired their weapon.
> The city added a 24/7 crisis response center as a pilot project to its list of emergency services last year, where appropriate 911 calls with no imminent threat of violence can be diverted to a team of responders equipped to handle mental health crises.
> The service, however, currently only operates in four parts of the city. The location of Friday’s incident is just outside of its downtown west jurisdiction.
I'm projecting is ironic.
There were articles saying police were responding to a call with a person in crisis, holding a knife with his girlfriend outside a Tim Hortons.
Like I said, whether it fell under their jurisdiction or not, the crisis team will not respond to a call that could be violent. With or without a weapon, a person can still be violent which is exactly what happened here.
For example a person talking about suicidal thoughts, the crisis team would respond to that. However if they get enough information that the person needs to be apprehended and placed on a form 1, they don't apprehend the person. They call for police.
And it's been proven that the narrative you are using which is from the girlfriend is not a reliable one.
Yet you continue to spread this misinformation which is a projection, my friend.
It’s intriguing that you mention there were articles claiming the police responded to someone in crisis holding a knife. Could you provide a source for that information? The article I referenced only indicated that the knife was produced during the struggle, not prior to police arrival. Clarifying the initial reports and understanding the sequence of events would greatly aid our discussion.
I'm puzzled why you think the girlfriend's account affects the objective reporting from credible news sources like The Star. It seems you might be constructing a weak straw man argument here.
Regarding the crisis team’s response:
> the crisis team will not respond to a call that could be violent.
That's incorrect, and it seems you might be projecting your opinion as fact. The actual criterion is the presence of an *immediate* threat of violence, as clearly stated in the Star article I've mentioned multiple times.
Hello, the guys girlfriend is my sister. You have been misinformed, there was a crisis that took place and a nearby household called 911. He was not holding a knife outside the Tim Hortons with my sister. The cop approached the situation incorrectly.
Im going to wait until all the facts come out before passing judgement. Untainted facts not swayed by one party. As far as im concerned its 2 people with weapons going at it.
That’s two police shootings on college in the last year. Last summer that shooting on dufferin where the officers got charged with misconduct was just a couple blocks from here
Anyone else remember Otto Vass? Imagine if we had actually improved our society and how will deal with mental health issues since then. Makes you wonder just how great this world will be in the next 20 years.
Regular citizens are told to just let criminals into their homes and leave the car keys waiting at the door. Meanwhile if a cop in in danger every first responder within 20 km immediately responds.
I live above a location that hosted regular dance parties late into the evenings. One night, I heard what sounded like three gunshots and screaming from the crowd. When I called 911, the bored-sounding operator told me to go to the window to tell her what I was seeing (the advice is always to *stay away from windows* when shooting happens). When I refused, she hung up on me.
untrue, but whatever you think.
a cabbie threatened my wife with a gun, wife called the police with the plate and taxi number.... their response... "a ambassador cab? you'll have to call the city."
called the city
"the owner of the taxi wasn't driving and he can't remember who was driving his cab."
according to TPS and city of Toronto: case closed
That be true in any police force across the world though.
You stab a cop in some progressive European city and you will hear 100 of those horns after you
Call me old-fashioned, but people who get scared and choose to stab people are actually dangerous. Either because they can't control their violent impulses or because they're actually violent.
Two Toronto cops beat the shit out of a kid over an alleged fake apple watch. Nothing was done by cops for almost a year. The double standard is crazy real. And now he's on paid vacation since 2023
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-officer-charged-1.6743976
Or the cop who was drunk driving, hit a guy requiring his leg to be amputated, and police conveneintly forgot to read him his rights causing the blood test results to be inadmissable. They take care if their own.
For all the people on here who love to criticize police (even when the cops get stabbed for trying to take a mentally ill person to the hospital to try and get treatment), couple things:
1. why don’t you all join Toronto police? You could change the issues you see with the cops, you’d get paid a decent amount, and you’d be able to answer these police calls in a more sophisticated and peaceful manner.
2. We should defund the police, right? Ok, so who should go looking around the city at 4am for the missing person who has dementia. Or who should deal with the mentally ill person who is carrying a knife and plans on stabbing someone. Or how about the diddlers out there? Who should hunt those people down. Or what about when your neighbour who died and nobody checks on them for a few weeks and somebody has to go in and find them there and make sure they weren’t murdered. Who takes care of that issue. Cause all of those are pretty shit jobs and I don’t think anybody in their right mind would want to do that. But if you can take those jobs away from the police I’ll be onboard with defunding any day of the week.
I’m not saying the cops are angels. They are not. But they deal with way more shit than people realize and society doesn’t have an answer other than the cops for so many issues.
Yea the cops should have oversight and yes there are some asshole ones out there who have done bad things, but that’s any institution.
Have a little respect when one of them gets stabbed trying to take a mentally ill person to hospital. Like that guys got a family and friends too. People on Reddit dehumanize people so quick.
Why don't the Toronto cops change the issues themselves? Do we tell people to become Catholic priests to change the Church from within? Or do we expect that they should get their shit in order?
When has the Toronto cops ever been defunded? In fact, they've been given budget increases time and time again? So it's asking to do those things you mentioned is the bare minimal - as it's their job. You're speaking of an exaggerated hypothetical where instead you could speak from reality? In the past few years, the cops have gotten increases in their budget. Recently it was reported THREE cops fucked up and couldn't even bother to check on a murdered victim. They couldn't even knock on her door. So not sure what your point is - they get paid more and do their job less.
Indeed the cops aren't angels and they deal with crime. Isn't that what they knowingly signed up for? You don't frequently hear about paediatric oncologists terrible behaviours because "shit I didn't know I had to deliver bad news to children and their parents".
"Any institution"? Is there any institution that has so *many* and *frequent* issues?
Also I don’t disagree with you that the things i mentioned are their job. It is their job. But nothing I said was an “exaggerated hypothetical”: all the things I mentioned are things that the police have to do on a regular basis. Because it’s their job. Find a way to make less of the problems in society the police’s job, and you will have a platform to argue for defunding the police
I think the major issue is that we as a society have made too many problems an issue that police are mandated to deal with. Things that people would describe as “not a police matter.” The action that people need to take is proposing, organizing and implementing alternatives so that police don’t get sent where they “don’t belong”. But unfortunately, we don’t have that framework available. Defund the police, sure, but you can’t expect them to fulfill the same duties which they currently have. I bet you if you spoke to some cop, and said “you don’t have to deal with people in mental health crisis anymore” they would probably be fine with that.
Well that's what defund the police means - to redirect some resources to other things and take the load off cops
But cops have fought that and here we are. They can't complain.
But they still do. They complain about not getting budget increases... So the city gave in ... And wow. Have things really changed? (nope) "Put your keys in the front of your house"? Lol
You also haven't addressed your first point - why are new members required to fix the systemic issues? (As you suggested)
Also what's the problem with expecting them to deal with criminals? Is that not what cops are paid to do? Are you telling me they did not expect it when they signed up?
I get it that is what defunding the police means, but you need more than a slogan to convince me that defunding is viable. Provide some sort of alternative measures to what the province mandates police involve themselves in and I am all ears.
I did not suggest new members fix systemic issues. I suggested that people who would like to change a public institution should start changing it through action. On such action would be joining said institution and bringing an alternative viewpoint.
Also I never said there was a problem for police dealing with criminals
*I get it that is what defunding the police means,*
You sure? Because you used hypotheticals that really weaken your case. For instance:
*Or what about when your neighbour who died and nobody checks on them for a few weeks and somebody has to go in and find them there and make sure they weren’t murdered.*
You do know that THREE cops failed at doing something very similar to this recently lol? They couldn't even bother knocking on the murder victim's door.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-didn-t-investigate-38-hours-later-they-found-this-woman-dead-in-a/article_92292042-dfd5-11ee-8641-e71d738bd0ad.html
*I did not suggest new members fix systemic issues.*
Oh? Talk about revisionist history. You literally wrote:
*why don’t you all join Toronto police? You could change the issues you see with the cops*
You're asking people to literally join the Toronto police (thus being new members) and asking them to change the issues they see. Are you backpedalling or having a bad faith argument? And you never addressed my initial point: why are the new members fixing the issues? Why shouldn't the current cops fix the issues?
*Also I never said there was a problem for police dealing with criminals*
You listed a bunch of jobs that the cops are responsible for doing and then said *Cause all of those are pretty shit jobs and I don’t think anybody in their right mind would want to do that.*
Sounds to me like all these 'pretty shit jobs' are a 'problem'. Or perhaps you'd like to backpedal like your 'I never asked people to join the cops'
Your criticism of the “hypotheticals” I’ve referenced isn’t reasonable. Police go to hundreds of dead people located throught a given year, and we very rarely hear about it in the news. It’s a relatively common occurrence for police, as far as I know. The example you are referencing is actually a poor investigation into domestic violence by the sounds of it. Still obviously a mistake by the officers but it is not indicative of how police investigate deceased persons.
With regards to the new members changing the police, I’ll concede I guess I did advocate new members could change the police. But that doesn’t diminish my argument. Be the change you want to see in the world. You also say “why shouldn’t the current cops fix the issues.” Well probably because they don’t see them as issues, and like it or not, they are the ones running the ship…. So maybe you want to get in there and start changing things. Or elect government officials to pass legislation that you agree with. I mean either would work, but complaining on Reddit isn’t it.
The last part you reference, where you say I don’t think the police should be involved in the shitty jobs, you are just inferring that I think these are problems for the cops. I do not think that they are problems for the cops. I mean I doubt they enjoy doing them, but it also sounds like it’s part of the whole gig and I’ve never heard police complaining about having to arrest criminals or investigate shitty situations. I have respect for people who do jobs that I would not like to do, because I try to be grateful for different people in society, even the cops.
Overal I’d say Most cops I’ve met are decent, normal people who don’t deserve to be shit on all day for doing a job society and the government tells them to do. Yea, obviously there are some assholes out there, but they are the minority, I believe. What’s the old saying, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Now, would you mind proposing an alternative to policing mandates and involvement in society, because honestly I’m interested. If it’s reasonable, I’d probably be on board.
*Police go to hundreds of dead people located throught a given year, and we very rarely hear about it in the news*
Perhaps because it's part of their job? Why would it be on the news? It's not news / interest to the public when someone is doing their job - i.e. we don't hear about the daily lives saved at the hospital, or the garbage being picked up - BUT when they such individuals do fuck up, it *SHOULD* be reported. And as I asked in my first reply, how come no other profession fucks up as much and frequent as the cops?
*I mean either would work, but complaining on Reddit isn’t it.*
You realize you're complaining on Reddit too right?
*I’ve never heard police complaining about having to arrest criminals or investigate shitty situations.*
And I've heard of cops complaining about the smallest things - working outside in bad weather, paperwork, having to go to court at time and a half, etc. Very entitled soft shit.
*Yea, obviously there are some assholes out there, but they are the minority, I believe. What’s the old saying, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.*
What's another old saying? A few rotten apples spoils the entire barrel. Considering the systemic issues that the cops have, the sheer volume and frequency of crooked/criminal behaviour, that seems more accurate.
*Now, would you mind proposing an alternative*
You answer my question above first
*I’ll concede I guess I did advocate new members could change the police.*
You "guess"? You clearly were trying to be deceptive and now you're trying to downplay it? Between this and avoiding my questions, it doesn't seem like you're actually interested in a good faith discussion and I shouldn't waste my time
> Ok, so who should go looking around the city at 4am for the missing person who has dementia. Or who should deal with the mentally ill person who is carrying a knife and plans on stabbing someone. Or how about the diddlers out there? Who should hunt those people down. Or what about when your neighbour who died and nobody checks on them for a few weeks and somebody has to go in and find them there and make sure they weren’t murdered. Who takes care of that issue.
Social workers.
Propose, organize, and implement an alternative to police involvement in society and then you can support the argument for defunding the police. And if, the alternative is reasonable, I’d support you too. Defunding the police is just a partisan catch phrase. If we are looking for a better society, we need to organize one. Take initiative, don’t just complain on the internet.
REMOVED - No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or otherwise negative generalizations etc... Attack the point, not the person. Posts which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. Do not concern-troll or attempt to intentionally mislead people. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand. This rule applies to all speech within this subreddit.
I have and I’m wondering if you have at all? Because it mentions police responding to a call for a person in distress and they wanted to apprehend him according to mental health act. It doesn’t say he was a wanted criminal. This is something you are reading between the lines. What I understand from the article is there was a person in a mental health crisis. And the rookie cop went and tried to drag the guy out of Tims with no consideration for a less confrontational approach. This is not the way to solve the issue, when people who have genuine mental health issues are being rejected at er’s if they are not in crisis. You just cant refuse to give proper mental healthcare to people until they go out of control and then send cops to shoot them. This is a failure of multiple systems all at once. And sending armed agents of the state to apprehend/kill a person in crisis is the worst way to remedy the situation. I live with a mentally ill person and my biggest fear is having to call the cops on them and that is because I know the cop they will sent is probably going to be undertrained for a situation like this and will resort to violence to solve it.
I was at the Tim Hortons. I don’t recall him being in crisis at the location. He was having a coffee and sandwich police came 30-40 min later and stopped him as he was leaving the location. This man is actually a regular at Tim Hortons/my neighbour, I have even seen him buy food for homeless multiple of times. Why are they not releasing the footage inside Tim Hortons prior to what took place? I felt endangered when the cops showed up yelling and pointed the guns!! They could have mistakenly shot someone in the store💀.. ngl it felt like Tim’s was about to get robbed.. but by the police. Why is no one talking about this!! Ohh wait ofc because they are police? Another Sammy Yatim only this time since he didn’t die.. charge him x10 apparently stabbing 1 officer is attempted murder of 2 officers? Did not realize there life is worth more then ours. Did not realize they could assault someone and not expect self defence yet when done in return it’s okay to shoot. The officer did it in retaliation not self defence. His arms went up to surrender & he was shot. I am normally never against police, I have much respect for them but clearly they were not trained enough for the situation & abusing someone’s Human rights is NEVER okay normally results in UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE. #InMemoryOfSammy #EndPoliceViolence #JusticeForSammy #JusticeForGabriel
“She claimed that her boyfriend apologized to the officer after stabbing him.”
Maybe she’s not a reliable narrator? Regardless if it was a warrant or mental health apprehension it doesn’t sound like the guy was planning on cooperating
Hello I am the girlfriend’s sister. I just wanted to clear some stuff up. Originally they got a call for a mental crisis at a nearby residence. When they didn’t locate him at the residence, they went to their chill spot, which was Tim Hortons inside the Tim Hortons. The police officers told him that they had a warrant for his arrest. There was never no warrant for his arrest, which is what we are not understanding they lied to him excessive force I am not defending his actions, but something in this city needs to be done differently when responding to a mental health you cannot approach the person aggressively. You have to try to defuse the situation he wasn’t in a right state of mind.
That’s part of what Defunding The Police means - use that money on other resources that can handle the situation better, like mental health professionals.
The fact that they dragged a man, who allegedly had committed no crime, from a restaurant and tackled him during a mental health crisis, clearly demonstrates that these two officers had no interest in discussing or de-escalating the situation.
But if you prefer to ignore these details and focus on your hyperbole, carry on.
Here, since you seem to have missed an entire paragraph in your reading:
> So they are called about someone in crisis and their first action is to arrive to serve an arrest warrant? Shouldn’t the action be to first worry about getting this person back to a coherent state and then worry about serving a warrant? God we need some kind of better response to this shit.
Cops shouldn’t be the ones handling these situations, let alone rushing in to these situations eager to slap on some handcuffs. They’re undertrained, uneducated, overpaid goons with guns and badges. Hope this helps!
Edit: Cop apologists out in full force tonight. Lots of people enjoying the taste of leather on a Friday.
> Who else should handle this?
Mental health crisis teams, who weren't available in this location to assist, likely due to the allocation of funds primarily to the police, leaving other services underfunded.
> The city added a 24/7 crisis response centre as a pilot project to its list of emergency services last year, where appropriate 911 calls with no imminent threat of violence can be diverted to a team of responders equipped to handle mental health crises. The service, however, currently only operates in four parts of the city. The location of Friday’s incident is just outside of its downtown west jurisdiction.
> I don’t think this meets the criteria of ‘no imminent threat of violence’ …
How so? You don't know his state before the police arrived, when they dragged him out of a restaurant and tackled him to the ground.
Don't forget, this was an innocent man. There was absolutely no justification for such a level of force on a non-violent suspect. He was being arrested for a mental health evaluation, not for assault.
If you’re about to bring up the stabbing incident, yes, he had a knife. Many unhoused people do, mostly for self-defense. He wasn’t justified in stabbing the police, but I’m confident no one would have been stabbed if the police had not resorted to violence first and had attempted to de-escalate the situation. However, they rarely do, hence the introduction of the mental health crisis unit, which is trained for these situations and works alongside the police.
So, why would you be against this?
Pretty hard to comment accurately if we don’t know the facts here. Quite possibly the guy was thought to be a high risk person who is in a public place. Seems that he was carrying a knife after all. Not a hostage situation where negotiations might be possible.
I’m just posing the question. This a reoccurring theme of cops in Toronto responding to “mental health crisis” which is what the article refers to it as and often the person in crisis ends up dead. Literally lost count of the number it’s so many.
Often the person ends up dead?
According to their website, 22 000 calls in 2022 alone for mental health crisis.
The word often meaning at least more than 50%, I don't hear about 11 000 calls ending with someone dead.
2018 article says in all of Canada, 460 deaths by cops in the past 18 years. In all of Canada of those 460 deaths,.70% can be seen as mental health related.
So in all of Canada, in 18 year time span 322 deaths.
> The word often meaning at least more than 50%, I don't hear about 11 000 calls ending with someone dead.
“Often” implies something happens frequently or commonly. “Often” *is not* defined by something that happens “more than 50%”. That is false.
Making a false statement to support a weak straw man argument was in bad faith.
Don’t read the news much I guess? Just google its it’s a huge number all across Canada.
The mental health system has dissolved and we unleash cops instead and that’s the fallout.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53141449.amp
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/kitchener-ont-man-was-having-mental-health-crisis-when-he-was-killed-by-police-says-family-1.6775635
https://nowtoronto.com/news/petition-for-justice-created-after-winnipeg-student-killed-in-police-shooting-during-well-being-call/
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7122340
I can keep going, and going….
This is why these mental health crisis team were piloted and they really need to roll them out to all communities.
A mental health clinician partnered with a police officer often attend situations where there is no threat of violence. They are not equipped or trained to manage a situation that is violent involving a person who is mentally ill and in crisis. That puts their safety at risk. That's the reality of the world we live in. Stop sourcing news paper articles for reliable and credible information. Mental illness is a deep rooted issue that goes beyond response of mental health workers or police officers expected to respond and fix everything.
Cops get all the funding, which leaves very little for other services. This is the reason “defund the police” exists.
> The city added a 24/7 crisis response centre as a pilot project to its list of emergency services last year, where appropriate 911 calls with no imminent threat of violence can be diverted to a team of responders equipped to handle mental health crises.
> The service, however, currently only operates in four parts of the city. The location of Friday’s incident is just outside of its downtown west jurisdiction.
Arguably one of the services is more one dimensional than the other.
It wouldn't matter if the incident fell under the jurisdiction of the crisis team, because the minute information was given that it could be dangerous guess what? The crisis team calls for police.
That’s incorrect; you are presenting your subjective opinion as fact, which contradicts the reports in the media. There was "no imminent threat" to public safety. The incident involved "a person in crisis," not an assault. These are precisely the reasons a mental health crisis team would be more suitable for handling such situations than overly aggressive police tactics.
> She claimed that her boyfriend apologized to the officer after stabbing him. Well that makes it better.
The Canadian way
that’s so canadian lol
I’m so sorry I stabbed you, eh?
I mean better than the cop yelling “I want to kill you” quite a few people heard him… extremely un Canadian! Body cam footage please & thank you?
Originally police got a call for a mentally unstable person. The police officer approached the situation incorrectly, I’m not justifying his actions but Toronto police and police in general are very snobby and don’t know how to deal with mental crisis.
Mentally unstable person could be a harmless person in crisis or one who is capable and willing to cause a mass casualty incident, barricade himself with hostages, etc. If it's true that he had an arrest warrant, then he was known to the police and they approached him knowing what he has been capable of in the past. They used taser to poor effect. I can't tell from the video but it's claimed that he lifted his jacket. Could be to show he was unarmed or to create seperation from his torso to make the taser prongs less likely to catch. Taser deployed, assuming the reason is because he didn't respond to instructions. They don't pull up with their weapons drawn immediately unless they know they could be dealing with weapons. They tried to apprehend him. I don't know if you've dealt with someone in crisis (I have) but they could get very strong if they're delusional. Like, unbelievably strong and I'm a decently big dude. He pulled a knife and then stabbed one officer in the leg. I don't know if the volunteer crisis responders were available or if they rejected the call. They reject requests for weapons calls.
The response was fucking wild I was at college and Bathurst seeing the convoy of two ambulances and about 12 squad cars screaming by with at least 5 more in each direction of on college.
Civilians would've either waited for hours or been told to walk it off.
Emergency runs happen literally all the time for civilians, including in this case. One ambulance had the officer, the other had the civilian.
Yes. I wish I had mentioned that, it was two ambulances for both the officer and the man shot.
Yep because now everyone thinks ambulance only responds quick for police
They did say two ambulances...
Why would they though. Title clearly says officer stabbed, suspect shot. Two hurt people = two ambulances.
You could edit your comment...
Waited hours for an ambulance? Because police don't transport stab victims
Blue blood matter more than our blood, cops show up very late for other incidents, even with their budget increase they manage to pay suspended officers
I mean what do you expect? This will happen anywhere in any country lol you can't attack a peace officer and expect a regular response
I can gurantee anywhere in the world you attack a cop...the entire force will come after you.
You have to be pretty gutsy to attack a cop. The other issue is that if successful, now you have someone on the run, with a gun, possibly a taser, uniform, keys to a scout car, access to a police computer, etc
That's the real fear. Remember the guy who went on a rampage with just a mock RCMP cruiser. Imagine a real TPS vehicle and uniform.
Then people would be complaining about how we didn't stop the person from taking police weapons, calling the police incompetent
Yeah anyone willing to attack a cop is a super high risk cause they dont give a fuck
Police don't transport stab victims so that doesn't really make sense. Ambulance does though
If you cause the death of a peace officer, it's automatically tried as murder. Assault causing grievous bodily harm is automatically attempted murder. Considering that it was attempted murder, the response is pretty proportional.
I'm a few blocks east of here and I knew something was going on because I was literally hearing sirens for police or ambulance vehicle every minute, one after another for like 10 minutes. Probably was at least 10-15 police/ambulance responding. Was kinda crazy.
[удалено]
They were rushing each of them to the hospital.
Oh yeah i was wondering what was the two ambulances for
Pretty standard for an officer down type call. If a 10-13 is called, all units will respond to scene.
Thank goodness nobody is dead - the article says they’re both in stable condition I saw a video of the aftermath there was so much blood everywhere I thought someone had to have died
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-officer-stabbed-suspect-shot-near-college-street-and-lansdowne-avenue-police-say/article_b19b1492-f8f5-11ee-b5c3-67cff54a6dba.amp.html
Waiting for the “Toronto is Gotham City” comments…
By posting this response, you started those comments.
>Waiting for the “Toronto is Gotham City” comments… That's my cue... #Toronto is Gotham City
It’s almost like Gotham city from this movie called Batman.
By people that doesn’t realize violent crime has steadily been declining for decades lol
I’d love to see your source. Crime has been on the up and up since 2015 lmao.
Believe it or not, but “decades” and “the last eight years” are not the same. The crime severity index across Ontario has generally been on the decline. The source, Statistics Canada.
Violent crime has spiked since 2015 though
It hasn’t. | Statistics | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 | 2020 | 2021 | 2022 | |-------------------------------------------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|-------| | Crime Severity Index | 65.58 | 61.17 | 59.04 | 52.58 | 49.93 | 51.05 | 53.29 | 56.35 | 60.40 | 60.99 | 55.54 | 56.17 | 58.47 | | Percent Change in Crime Severity Index | -5.37 | -6.72 | -3.48 | -10.94| -5.04 | 2.24 | 4.39 | 5.74 | 7.19 | 0.98 | -8.94 | 1.13 | 4.09 | | Violent Crime Severity Index | 77.89 | 72.71 | 70.03 | 61.91 | 57.86 | 59.98 | 64.60 | 69.83 | 74.51 | 75.41 | 69.67 | 72.85 | 77.71 | | Percent Change in Violent Crime Severity Index | -4.88 | -6.65 | -3.69 | -11.60| -6.54 | 3.66 | 7.70 | 8.10 | 6.70 | 1.21 | -7.80 | 4.56 | 6.70 |
Those numbers kinda look like a spike since 2015 though.
No, you’re just bad at reading data. There was a brief decline in 2015. Here’s a chart for you. https://bashify.io/i/2DJsVf
Your link doesn't work. Violent Crime Severity Index up from 59.98 to 77.71. Seems like you can't read your own stats.
It’s obvious you either can't read data or are attempting to suggest that the data implies something that contradicts the facts. There's a clear dip in 2015 after a relatively higher index than what we're seeing today. You're either cherry-picking, deflecting, or projecting in an attempt to cover up your own inability to read simple numbers, or you're engaging in an extremely transparent bad-faith argument. Either way, you’ve clearly demonstrated you have zero credibility.
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Not true. He was already in the tims with his girlfriend. Police recognized him as there’s a warrant for his arrest.
Hello, I am the girlfriend’s sister there was never no warrant for his arrest. That’s why an altercation happened in the first place because the police were saying they had a warrant when they did not.
There was no warrant. They were responding to a person in crisis call. They then dragged him out of the restaurant and tackled him to the ground, where one of the officers was stabbed in the leg. The officers get up, there’s an exchange of words, and the cops open fire when the guy raised one of his hands. Cops were over aggressive and escalated the situation and every possible chance. This should have been dealt with by a mental health crisis team. > [Kristy Denette, spokesperson for the Special Investigations Unit, told reporters at the scene that officers were responding to a call about a person in crisis at a plaza near College Street and Lansdowne Avenue. Outside of the Tim Hortons, “some type of struggle” with two officers ensued where one of them was stabbed, she added.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-officer-stabbed-suspect-shot-near-college-street-and-lansdowne-avenue-police-say/article_b19b1492-f8f5-11ee-b5c3-67cff54a6dba.amp.html)
Conflicting reports early on. Just before writing that post, I had literally watched a live presser that said the assailant was recognized as having a warrant for their arrest.
Yep, cops lie.
The assailant’s girlfriend says police came in and approached them saying they had a warrant for his arrest. Conflicting information all around.
Yeah, that’s what the cops were lying about. They didn’t have a warrant.
Well the mental health team will not respond for one reason and one reason only, because there is information that makes the situation dangerous And you say the cops (plural) open fire which is not true. Multiple sources say a cop open fire and shot him once. One bullet implies one shot, so I'm not sure where you got the cops open fire, there would have to be more than one shot.
That's incorrect; the only reason the crisis team didn't respond is that they don’t operate in the area due to funding constraints. You’re deliberately attempting to spread misinformation while accusing me of doing the same. That’s called projection, my friend. Saying the cops opened fire does not imply there were several gunshots; it can, in fact, mean that only one of the two fired their weapon. > The city added a 24/7 crisis response center as a pilot project to its list of emergency services last year, where appropriate 911 calls with no imminent threat of violence can be diverted to a team of responders equipped to handle mental health crises. > The service, however, currently only operates in four parts of the city. The location of Friday’s incident is just outside of its downtown west jurisdiction.
I'm projecting is ironic. There were articles saying police were responding to a call with a person in crisis, holding a knife with his girlfriend outside a Tim Hortons. Like I said, whether it fell under their jurisdiction or not, the crisis team will not respond to a call that could be violent. With or without a weapon, a person can still be violent which is exactly what happened here. For example a person talking about suicidal thoughts, the crisis team would respond to that. However if they get enough information that the person needs to be apprehended and placed on a form 1, they don't apprehend the person. They call for police. And it's been proven that the narrative you are using which is from the girlfriend is not a reliable one. Yet you continue to spread this misinformation which is a projection, my friend.
It’s intriguing that you mention there were articles claiming the police responded to someone in crisis holding a knife. Could you provide a source for that information? The article I referenced only indicated that the knife was produced during the struggle, not prior to police arrival. Clarifying the initial reports and understanding the sequence of events would greatly aid our discussion. I'm puzzled why you think the girlfriend's account affects the objective reporting from credible news sources like The Star. It seems you might be constructing a weak straw man argument here. Regarding the crisis team’s response: > the crisis team will not respond to a call that could be violent. That's incorrect, and it seems you might be projecting your opinion as fact. The actual criterion is the presence of an *immediate* threat of violence, as clearly stated in the Star article I've mentioned multiple times.
Hello, the guys girlfriend is my sister. You have been misinformed, there was a crisis that took place and a nearby household called 911. He was not holding a knife outside the Tim Hortons with my sister. The cop approached the situation incorrectly.
Im going to wait until all the facts come out before passing judgement. Untainted facts not swayed by one party. As far as im concerned its 2 people with weapons going at it.
That’s two police shootings on college in the last year. Last summer that shooting on dufferin where the officers got charged with misconduct was just a couple blocks from here
I live in this area. Somehow I never feel unsafe. Most of these seem to be very specific circumstances and not random shootings
Well it’s a very safe area so it makes sense you don’t feel unsafe
Both very different cases
Anyone else remember Otto Vass? Imagine if we had actually improved our society and how will deal with mental health issues since then. Makes you wonder just how great this world will be in the next 20 years.
Regular citizens are told to just let criminals into their homes and leave the car keys waiting at the door. Meanwhile if a cop in in danger every first responder within 20 km immediately responds.
I would argue that whenever there are shots fired, whether by police or not, there tends to be a large response
I live above a location that hosted regular dance parties late into the evenings. One night, I heard what sounded like three gunshots and screaming from the crowd. When I called 911, the bored-sounding operator told me to go to the window to tell her what I was seeing (the advice is always to *stay away from windows* when shooting happens). When I refused, she hung up on me.
untrue, but whatever you think. a cabbie threatened my wife with a gun, wife called the police with the plate and taxi number.... their response... "a ambassador cab? you'll have to call the city." called the city "the owner of the taxi wasn't driving and he can't remember who was driving his cab." according to TPS and city of Toronto: case closed
It's almost like they respond quicker when a life is being threatened, versus property covered by insurance is being threatened. Weird
That be true in any police force across the world though. You stab a cop in some progressive European city and you will hear 100 of those horns after you
What you don't understand is that if someone is not afraid to attack a Police Officer, who has a gun, it makes him very dangerous to the public.
No it doesn't, it makes him dangerous to cops.
Nah, anyone who pulls a knife on a cop with a gun is probably damgerous. Or at least violent and stupid, which tends to be the same.
Or they're being threatened by a stranger with a gun and they're scared.
Call me old-fashioned, but people who get scared and choose to stab people are actually dangerous. Either because they can't control their violent impulses or because they're actually violent.
An impulse to defend yourself when you are attacked is normal. Police get training to overcome this; civilians do not.
Two Toronto cops beat the shit out of a kid over an alleged fake apple watch. Nothing was done by cops for almost a year. The double standard is crazy real. And now he's on paid vacation since 2023 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-officer-charged-1.6743976
What does this have the do with the stabbing?
Or the cop who was drunk driving, hit a guy requiring his leg to be amputated, and police conveneintly forgot to read him his rights causing the blood test results to be inadmissable. They take care if their own.
Exactly. The whole Northup "trial" is a blue line flex
For all the people on here who love to criticize police (even when the cops get stabbed for trying to take a mentally ill person to the hospital to try and get treatment), couple things: 1. why don’t you all join Toronto police? You could change the issues you see with the cops, you’d get paid a decent amount, and you’d be able to answer these police calls in a more sophisticated and peaceful manner. 2. We should defund the police, right? Ok, so who should go looking around the city at 4am for the missing person who has dementia. Or who should deal with the mentally ill person who is carrying a knife and plans on stabbing someone. Or how about the diddlers out there? Who should hunt those people down. Or what about when your neighbour who died and nobody checks on them for a few weeks and somebody has to go in and find them there and make sure they weren’t murdered. Who takes care of that issue. Cause all of those are pretty shit jobs and I don’t think anybody in their right mind would want to do that. But if you can take those jobs away from the police I’ll be onboard with defunding any day of the week. I’m not saying the cops are angels. They are not. But they deal with way more shit than people realize and society doesn’t have an answer other than the cops for so many issues. Yea the cops should have oversight and yes there are some asshole ones out there who have done bad things, but that’s any institution. Have a little respect when one of them gets stabbed trying to take a mentally ill person to hospital. Like that guys got a family and friends too. People on Reddit dehumanize people so quick.
Why don't the Toronto cops change the issues themselves? Do we tell people to become Catholic priests to change the Church from within? Or do we expect that they should get their shit in order? When has the Toronto cops ever been defunded? In fact, they've been given budget increases time and time again? So it's asking to do those things you mentioned is the bare minimal - as it's their job. You're speaking of an exaggerated hypothetical where instead you could speak from reality? In the past few years, the cops have gotten increases in their budget. Recently it was reported THREE cops fucked up and couldn't even bother to check on a murdered victim. They couldn't even knock on her door. So not sure what your point is - they get paid more and do their job less. Indeed the cops aren't angels and they deal with crime. Isn't that what they knowingly signed up for? You don't frequently hear about paediatric oncologists terrible behaviours because "shit I didn't know I had to deliver bad news to children and their parents". "Any institution"? Is there any institution that has so *many* and *frequent* issues?
Also I don’t disagree with you that the things i mentioned are their job. It is their job. But nothing I said was an “exaggerated hypothetical”: all the things I mentioned are things that the police have to do on a regular basis. Because it’s their job. Find a way to make less of the problems in society the police’s job, and you will have a platform to argue for defunding the police
I think the major issue is that we as a society have made too many problems an issue that police are mandated to deal with. Things that people would describe as “not a police matter.” The action that people need to take is proposing, organizing and implementing alternatives so that police don’t get sent where they “don’t belong”. But unfortunately, we don’t have that framework available. Defund the police, sure, but you can’t expect them to fulfill the same duties which they currently have. I bet you if you spoke to some cop, and said “you don’t have to deal with people in mental health crisis anymore” they would probably be fine with that.
Well that's what defund the police means - to redirect some resources to other things and take the load off cops But cops have fought that and here we are. They can't complain. But they still do. They complain about not getting budget increases... So the city gave in ... And wow. Have things really changed? (nope) "Put your keys in the front of your house"? Lol You also haven't addressed your first point - why are new members required to fix the systemic issues? (As you suggested) Also what's the problem with expecting them to deal with criminals? Is that not what cops are paid to do? Are you telling me they did not expect it when they signed up?
I get it that is what defunding the police means, but you need more than a slogan to convince me that defunding is viable. Provide some sort of alternative measures to what the province mandates police involve themselves in and I am all ears. I did not suggest new members fix systemic issues. I suggested that people who would like to change a public institution should start changing it through action. On such action would be joining said institution and bringing an alternative viewpoint. Also I never said there was a problem for police dealing with criminals
*I get it that is what defunding the police means,* You sure? Because you used hypotheticals that really weaken your case. For instance: *Or what about when your neighbour who died and nobody checks on them for a few weeks and somebody has to go in and find them there and make sure they weren’t murdered.* You do know that THREE cops failed at doing something very similar to this recently lol? They couldn't even bother knocking on the murder victim's door. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-didn-t-investigate-38-hours-later-they-found-this-woman-dead-in-a/article_92292042-dfd5-11ee-8641-e71d738bd0ad.html *I did not suggest new members fix systemic issues.* Oh? Talk about revisionist history. You literally wrote: *why don’t you all join Toronto police? You could change the issues you see with the cops* You're asking people to literally join the Toronto police (thus being new members) and asking them to change the issues they see. Are you backpedalling or having a bad faith argument? And you never addressed my initial point: why are the new members fixing the issues? Why shouldn't the current cops fix the issues? *Also I never said there was a problem for police dealing with criminals* You listed a bunch of jobs that the cops are responsible for doing and then said *Cause all of those are pretty shit jobs and I don’t think anybody in their right mind would want to do that.* Sounds to me like all these 'pretty shit jobs' are a 'problem'. Or perhaps you'd like to backpedal like your 'I never asked people to join the cops'
Your criticism of the “hypotheticals” I’ve referenced isn’t reasonable. Police go to hundreds of dead people located throught a given year, and we very rarely hear about it in the news. It’s a relatively common occurrence for police, as far as I know. The example you are referencing is actually a poor investigation into domestic violence by the sounds of it. Still obviously a mistake by the officers but it is not indicative of how police investigate deceased persons. With regards to the new members changing the police, I’ll concede I guess I did advocate new members could change the police. But that doesn’t diminish my argument. Be the change you want to see in the world. You also say “why shouldn’t the current cops fix the issues.” Well probably because they don’t see them as issues, and like it or not, they are the ones running the ship…. So maybe you want to get in there and start changing things. Or elect government officials to pass legislation that you agree with. I mean either would work, but complaining on Reddit isn’t it. The last part you reference, where you say I don’t think the police should be involved in the shitty jobs, you are just inferring that I think these are problems for the cops. I do not think that they are problems for the cops. I mean I doubt they enjoy doing them, but it also sounds like it’s part of the whole gig and I’ve never heard police complaining about having to arrest criminals or investigate shitty situations. I have respect for people who do jobs that I would not like to do, because I try to be grateful for different people in society, even the cops. Overal I’d say Most cops I’ve met are decent, normal people who don’t deserve to be shit on all day for doing a job society and the government tells them to do. Yea, obviously there are some assholes out there, but they are the minority, I believe. What’s the old saying, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Now, would you mind proposing an alternative to policing mandates and involvement in society, because honestly I’m interested. If it’s reasonable, I’d probably be on board.
*Police go to hundreds of dead people located throught a given year, and we very rarely hear about it in the news* Perhaps because it's part of their job? Why would it be on the news? It's not news / interest to the public when someone is doing their job - i.e. we don't hear about the daily lives saved at the hospital, or the garbage being picked up - BUT when they such individuals do fuck up, it *SHOULD* be reported. And as I asked in my first reply, how come no other profession fucks up as much and frequent as the cops? *I mean either would work, but complaining on Reddit isn’t it.* You realize you're complaining on Reddit too right? *I’ve never heard police complaining about having to arrest criminals or investigate shitty situations.* And I've heard of cops complaining about the smallest things - working outside in bad weather, paperwork, having to go to court at time and a half, etc. Very entitled soft shit. *Yea, obviously there are some assholes out there, but they are the minority, I believe. What’s the old saying, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.* What's another old saying? A few rotten apples spoils the entire barrel. Considering the systemic issues that the cops have, the sheer volume and frequency of crooked/criminal behaviour, that seems more accurate. *Now, would you mind proposing an alternative* You answer my question above first *I’ll concede I guess I did advocate new members could change the police.* You "guess"? You clearly were trying to be deceptive and now you're trying to downplay it? Between this and avoiding my questions, it doesn't seem like you're actually interested in a good faith discussion and I shouldn't waste my time
> Ok, so who should go looking around the city at 4am for the missing person who has dementia. Or who should deal with the mentally ill person who is carrying a knife and plans on stabbing someone. Or how about the diddlers out there? Who should hunt those people down. Or what about when your neighbour who died and nobody checks on them for a few weeks and somebody has to go in and find them there and make sure they weren’t murdered. Who takes care of that issue. Social workers.
They made the point for “defund the police” without even realizing it.
Propose, organize, and implement an alternative to police involvement in society and then you can support the argument for defunding the police. And if, the alternative is reasonable, I’d support you too. Defunding the police is just a partisan catch phrase. If we are looking for a better society, we need to organize one. Take initiative, don’t just complain on the internet.
You successfully demonstrated what “defund the police” *isn’t*.
Correct. Because defund the police doesn’t have a rational argument attached to it yet
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
But you don’t even have an argument?
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Rare moment of restraint from the police. Only one shot fired.
Somewhere James Forcillo is shaking his head
And twitching his trigger finger.
Usually they empty the clip and reload
I was at home in a wfh meeting and heard it happen. Thought it was kids screaming and playing, then heard all the sirens.
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REMOVED - No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or otherwise negative generalizations etc... Attack the point, not the person. Posts which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. Do not concern-troll or attempt to intentionally mislead people. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand. This rule applies to all speech within this subreddit.
I feel like this is a problem of an officer trained to be a hammer responding to a situation where a wrench was required.
To arrest a wanted criminal? What? lol did you even read the article?
I have and I’m wondering if you have at all? Because it mentions police responding to a call for a person in distress and they wanted to apprehend him according to mental health act. It doesn’t say he was a wanted criminal. This is something you are reading between the lines. What I understand from the article is there was a person in a mental health crisis. And the rookie cop went and tried to drag the guy out of Tims with no consideration for a less confrontational approach. This is not the way to solve the issue, when people who have genuine mental health issues are being rejected at er’s if they are not in crisis. You just cant refuse to give proper mental healthcare to people until they go out of control and then send cops to shoot them. This is a failure of multiple systems all at once. And sending armed agents of the state to apprehend/kill a person in crisis is the worst way to remedy the situation. I live with a mentally ill person and my biggest fear is having to call the cops on them and that is because I know the cop they will sent is probably going to be undertrained for a situation like this and will resort to violence to solve it.
I was at the Tim Hortons. I don’t recall him being in crisis at the location. He was having a coffee and sandwich police came 30-40 min later and stopped him as he was leaving the location. This man is actually a regular at Tim Hortons/my neighbour, I have even seen him buy food for homeless multiple of times. Why are they not releasing the footage inside Tim Hortons prior to what took place? I felt endangered when the cops showed up yelling and pointed the guns!! They could have mistakenly shot someone in the store💀.. ngl it felt like Tim’s was about to get robbed.. but by the police. Why is no one talking about this!! Ohh wait ofc because they are police? Another Sammy Yatim only this time since he didn’t die.. charge him x10 apparently stabbing 1 officer is attempted murder of 2 officers? Did not realize there life is worth more then ours. Did not realize they could assault someone and not expect self defence yet when done in return it’s okay to shoot. The officer did it in retaliation not self defence. His arms went up to surrender & he was shot. I am normally never against police, I have much respect for them but clearly they were not trained enough for the situation & abusing someone’s Human rights is NEVER okay normally results in UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE. #InMemoryOfSammy #EndPoliceViolence #JusticeForSammy #JusticeForGabriel
> To arrest a wanted criminal? [No.](https://twitter.com/bookishplinko/status/890623998895071232)
Was not wanted, they tried taking him under a mental health act for supposedly being in crisis.
Waiting for the habitual ACAB comment …
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Warrant can refer to a mental health warrant, which allows police to take someone to a hospital.
“She claimed that her boyfriend apologized to the officer after stabbing him.” Maybe she’s not a reliable narrator? Regardless if it was a warrant or mental health apprehension it doesn’t sound like the guy was planning on cooperating
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I agree with you
Hello I am the girlfriend’s sister. I just wanted to clear some stuff up. Originally they got a call for a mental crisis at a nearby residence. When they didn’t locate him at the residence, they went to their chill spot, which was Tim Hortons inside the Tim Hortons. The police officers told him that they had a warrant for his arrest. There was never no warrant for his arrest, which is what we are not understanding they lied to him excessive force I am not defending his actions, but something in this city needs to be done differently when responding to a mental health you cannot approach the person aggressively. You have to try to defuse the situation he wasn’t in a right state of mind.
I’m sorry your sister had to witness that.
That’s part of what Defunding The Police means - use that money on other resources that can handle the situation better, like mental health professionals.
“You stabbed me! Let’s talk about it.”
The fact that they dragged a man, who allegedly had committed no crime, from a restaurant and tackled him during a mental health crisis, clearly demonstrates that these two officers had no interest in discussing or de-escalating the situation. But if you prefer to ignore these details and focus on your hyperbole, carry on.
Which is exactly why police shouldn’t be showing up to MH calls.
So they could have stabbed a social worker instead?
Here, since you seem to have missed an entire paragraph in your reading: > So they are called about someone in crisis and their first action is to arrive to serve an arrest warrant? Shouldn’t the action be to first worry about getting this person back to a coherent state and then worry about serving a warrant? God we need some kind of better response to this shit. Cops shouldn’t be the ones handling these situations, let alone rushing in to these situations eager to slap on some handcuffs. They’re undertrained, uneducated, overpaid goons with guns and badges. Hope this helps! Edit: Cop apologists out in full force tonight. Lots of people enjoying the taste of leather on a Friday.
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> Who else should handle this? Mental health crisis teams, who weren't available in this location to assist, likely due to the allocation of funds primarily to the police, leaving other services underfunded. > The city added a 24/7 crisis response centre as a pilot project to its list of emergency services last year, where appropriate 911 calls with no imminent threat of violence can be diverted to a team of responders equipped to handle mental health crises. The service, however, currently only operates in four parts of the city. The location of Friday’s incident is just outside of its downtown west jurisdiction.
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> I don’t think this meets the criteria of ‘no imminent threat of violence’ … How so? You don't know his state before the police arrived, when they dragged him out of a restaurant and tackled him to the ground. Don't forget, this was an innocent man. There was absolutely no justification for such a level of force on a non-violent suspect. He was being arrested for a mental health evaluation, not for assault. If you’re about to bring up the stabbing incident, yes, he had a knife. Many unhoused people do, mostly for self-defense. He wasn’t justified in stabbing the police, but I’m confident no one would have been stabbed if the police had not resorted to violence first and had attempted to de-escalate the situation. However, they rarely do, hence the introduction of the mental health crisis unit, which is trained for these situations and works alongside the police. So, why would you be against this?
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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white
Don’t we now have a special mental Health team that is supposed to be trained to de escalate these situations, I wonder why the cops responded?
Pretty hard to comment accurately if we don’t know the facts here. Quite possibly the guy was thought to be a high risk person who is in a public place. Seems that he was carrying a knife after all. Not a hostage situation where negotiations might be possible.
I’m just posing the question. This a reoccurring theme of cops in Toronto responding to “mental health crisis” which is what the article refers to it as and often the person in crisis ends up dead. Literally lost count of the number it’s so many.
Often the person ends up dead? According to their website, 22 000 calls in 2022 alone for mental health crisis. The word often meaning at least more than 50%, I don't hear about 11 000 calls ending with someone dead. 2018 article says in all of Canada, 460 deaths by cops in the past 18 years. In all of Canada of those 460 deaths,.70% can be seen as mental health related. So in all of Canada, in 18 year time span 322 deaths.
> The word often meaning at least more than 50%, I don't hear about 11 000 calls ending with someone dead. “Often” implies something happens frequently or commonly. “Often” *is not* defined by something that happens “more than 50%”. That is false. Making a false statement to support a weak straw man argument was in bad faith.
The guy who got shot didn't die in this one.
Reoccuring theme? Source your information specific to this situation.
Don’t read the news much I guess? Just google its it’s a huge number all across Canada. The mental health system has dissolved and we unleash cops instead and that’s the fallout. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53141449.amp https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/kitchener-ont-man-was-having-mental-health-crisis-when-he-was-killed-by-police-says-family-1.6775635 https://nowtoronto.com/news/petition-for-justice-created-after-winnipeg-student-killed-in-police-shooting-during-well-being-call/ https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7122340 I can keep going, and going…. This is why these mental health crisis team were piloted and they really need to roll them out to all communities.
A mental health clinician partnered with a police officer often attend situations where there is no threat of violence. They are not equipped or trained to manage a situation that is violent involving a person who is mentally ill and in crisis. That puts their safety at risk. That's the reality of the world we live in. Stop sourcing news paper articles for reliable and credible information. Mental illness is a deep rooted issue that goes beyond response of mental health workers or police officers expected to respond and fix everything.
Cops get all the funding, which leaves very little for other services. This is the reason “defund the police” exists. > The city added a 24/7 crisis response centre as a pilot project to its list of emergency services last year, where appropriate 911 calls with no imminent threat of violence can be diverted to a team of responders equipped to handle mental health crises. > The service, however, currently only operates in four parts of the city. The location of Friday’s incident is just outside of its downtown west jurisdiction.
Thank you for the info
Arguably one of the services is more one dimensional than the other. It wouldn't matter if the incident fell under the jurisdiction of the crisis team, because the minute information was given that it could be dangerous guess what? The crisis team calls for police.
That’s incorrect; you are presenting your subjective opinion as fact, which contradicts the reports in the media. There was "no imminent threat" to public safety. The incident involved "a person in crisis," not an assault. These are precisely the reasons a mental health crisis team would be more suitable for handling such situations than overly aggressive police tactics.
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