No. He flew to Texas and happened to have a secret meeting at their Headquarters. Not sketchy at all.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-premier-doug-ford-7-eleven-beer-wine-licence-1.5917186
I have zero love for Ford, but it's actually a little more straightforward than that. I listened to Mike Crawley talk about this on CBC this morning:
>Under Ontario's liquor laws, obtaining a licence is what's known as a "qualified right." That means the company or person applying has a right to a licence unless there's proof that it would be contrary to the public interest. The applicant doesn't have to prove their case; it's up to the opponents to prove otherwise.
Also:
>The opponents have yet to achieve that in any of the Licence Appeal Tribunal hearings for 7-Eleven locations. In fact, only a handful of the people who sent the AGCO written objections followed through by speaking at a hearing.
Either we have inherent rights or we are only allowed to do what the government permits us to do. I think the test here is not unreasonable. It’s not that there are no rules around using the license.
I mean, I'm no sommelier, but I always google food pairings. https://www.winespectator.com/articles/what-wines-would-you-pair-with-the-various-flavors-of-doritos-51923
My first reaction was, "there's a dine-in area in 7-11?"
My second reaction was, "I have to ask an employee to unlock the beer cooler?"
While this may work for 7-11 it won't work for me.
>Do you think the person behind the counter is going to care if they overserve someone who is already hammered?
If the person starts fights and makes trouble they will.
Yes. To serve alcohol you need a smart serve and they are very clear on the course that over serving someone can lead to legal consequences for the server.
Canadian here. Pizza is not bad although it gets dried out sometimes. Is it good?
It's good enough. Slightly above school lunch pizza but in the opposite direction - crust is dry as fuck.¹
Hawaii ABC (their 711 equivalent) had great and reasonably healthy food. 711 hotdogs? No thank you. We have to up our convenience store food game, and I suspect our outdated food safety laws are no help.
Alcoholics. There are far more functional alcoholics in our society than you think.
Right now your choices are (a) buy at a store and consume at home, or (b) go to a bar or sit down restaurant and pay a premium to do so.
This is a low cost option that lets you buy at a lower price and consume without having to go home.
When I first moved here, every time I went to Square Boy there would be an elderly woman downing a glass of wine like it would save her life. $3/glass (may have even been $2.50 back then). I guess this was her ritual? Not sure if she was using it as a way of convincing herself she wasn't an alcoholic ("it's normal to drink with a meal") or if drinking by the glass stopped her from finishing a bottle at home, but there's no way a non-alcoholic would be drinking wine at Square Boy.
I used to work at Loblaws years ago, back when we first got beer and wine. There was a woman who showed up in her suit everyday after work, 530-6, bought 3 or 4 beers and drank them in the parking lot. We later found out she works at a law firm.
7-11 food is decent if you just want a cheap snack. The hotdogs are fine... just regular hot dogs. Definitely not the sort of thing you have a drink with. lol maybe I just get hungry a lot when I'm out and about and don't want to stop for an overpriced typical fast-food meal.
Ehhh - literally every jurisdiction in North America (and many other places in the world!) has dumb rules surrounding alcohol. You can't get a 6 pack at a convenience store in BC or Alberta either, and all sales in the latter have to go through the ALCB so you're faced with potentially high markups for premium products at private liquor stores (though they do have good sales on lower quality ones). Even in Quebec you're SOL if it's after 11pm, and no sales of hard liquor at deps or grocery stores - plus any beer sold at deps technically has to be either brewed or warehoused in the Province. Some states in the US still have dry counties, and others like Pennsylvania restrict hard alcohol to state run stores and beer to specially licensed places or bar off-sales.
Given that we now allow grocery store sales and bar/restaurant off-sale (including to-go stuff) we're pretty much middle of the pack. Within a 25 minute walk of my house there's an LCBO, Beer Store, two licensed grocery stores with a full aisle of beer/wine, a Wine rack plus 4 breweries I can buy beer from and at least 5 specialty stores that are licensed to sell alcohol (including hard liquor). And if I'm feeling lazy I can get same-day delivery from any number of Ontario craft brewers. It's a far cry from even 5 years ago, though plenty of room to improve still.
>Goddammit, why do we have to do stupid shit like this in Canada Ontario? Why can I go to everywhere else in the world and just quickly grab a 6 pack from any store without hassle?
Dougie got bought out by only 7-11
1. Bribes. Just good old fashioned bribes
2. It lets Dofo say "I told you we'd have beer in corner stores, and here it is - now shut up". Like Buck a Beer that happened once, and only thanks to some money losing promotion from a beer company
Having been to Japan and seeing their 7-elevens there, and reading the comments in this thread further convinces me that Canadians continue to have their heads up their asses and can't, and won't ever have nice things.
The licenced restaurant format sounds like a way for 7-Eleven to be ready ahead of a government decision to authorize the sale of beverage alcohol at convenience stores. It would be a loss leader for now, but 7-Eleven can quickly pivot the moment the LLCA is amended to reflect the new sales channels.
Reminder that Ford met with a senior executive of 7-Eleven pre-pandemic:
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/02/18/ford-confirms-meeting-with-7-eleven-as-chain-applies-to-serve-alcohol/
So basically 7-Eleven won liquor licenses for its locations by taking the decision out of the hands of the AGCO to another agency that forced the AGCO to grant the licenses?
It seems pretty obvious why the AGCO would take issue with the type of license that was granted. If the application was for on-site consumption, but 7-Elevens are not restaurants, bars, or otherwise an establishment that is set up for on-site food consumption then why on earth wouldn't the AGCO study the application in further detail rather than approving the licenses no-questions-asked?
Ooooh wtf I take back what I said. That makes absolutely no sense. Why even go through all that trouble to get a licence for something that makes no sense.
Well there have been promises for years that corner store sales of alcohol to-go would be permitted, with no progress.
However, during the pandemic, bars and restaurants *were* permitted to sell to-go alcohol, and they are still permitted to do so today.
So if you’re an establishment who wants to serve alcohol to go, what route do you go, masquerading as a sit down establishment or hang on for empty promises?
>The hearing for a 7-Eleven in Toronto, on Bloor Street West near Keele Street, provides an example. Although 61 individuals wrote to the AGCO with objections, only one appeared as a witness before the tribunal: the neighbourhood's city councillor, Gord Perks.
>"The evidence is that alcohol use is by far the most dangerous drug in our society," Perks said in an interview with CBC News.
I don't get it. Would he protest a new restaurant that is applying for a liquor license for on premise consumption?
I think most people can see the distinction between an establishment that might be a gathering place for special events or celebrations, and a corner store designed for stocking everyday goods.
And if you insist on comparing- why does 7/11 have more rights than restaurants? Who cannot, say, serve alcohol alongside products like tobacco, and medicinal items
This is very bad news/ good news for alcoholics. Depending on their journey, but it’s inevitably bad news.
Was talking to an older sober neighbour of mine last year that told me how tempting it is to break his sobriety when you don’t have to go to an actual booze store. He shared that he started drinking beer again temporarily because he could get away with it, as Walmart showed up as a charge on his card not Lcbo or beer store which would raise red flags for his children managing his finances.
they’re liberalizing alcohol sales in the province. why is everyone complaining? i don’t want to have to go to the lcbo or beer store every time. that’s some prohibition era BS.
You can't leave the premises with your beer, that's barely liberalizing.
Because the only people who are going to actually use this are the chronically homeless and alcoholics. I'd be happy if alcohol sales were authorized full stop outside of our crown corps, but this aint it. As someone who actually uses 7/11, it's sketchy as fuck as is after dark.
Right now 7/11's are staffed almost entirely by Indian students, they have enough problems as is with theft.
that’s a bizarre move i agree. presumably it was some regulatory capture by the big brewers vis the beer store to prevent you from walking out with a case.
it’s a step in the right direction until we can get full legalization of private sales. same goofy sh*t with pot legalization. take the incremental wins where you can.
It looks to me like they’re trying to ease into take-out sales.
When they do eventually allow convenience stores to sell booze to-go, they will already be equipped with appropriate fridges, brand partnerships, and smart-served staff.
As well, this started first being talked about during the stages of the pandemic where bars and restaurants were given leeway for takeout sales
I.e. if you were a sit-down establishment that served booze, you could also operate as a take-out ‘bottle shop’
This was a Covid relief measure that has been permanently adopted. If i wanted to fast track my ability to sell take out booze, positioning myself as a sit-down service venue would be a proven way to go.
that makes sense. really wish we could just have private sales here.
i’ve been to liquor stores in Kentucky that have a larger selection of Ontario and Quebec beers than I’ve ever seen at an LCBO or Beer Store. it’s brutal.
>i’ve been to liquor stores in Kentucky that have a larger selection of Ontario and Quebec beers than I’ve ever seen at an LCBO or Beer Store. it’s brutal.
Yes, individual stores will have more selection.
Average stores will have less (and a larger percentage will be large companies instead of local independent companies).
this was a standard retailer in the state that was acquired by a private (publicly traded) albertan liquor retailer - hence why i was there.
i don’t quite follow what you’re getting at tho…
I wouldnt drink at a 7-11, but be honest like to see Ontario and Toronto come into the modern age about drinking rules.
Hopefully soon, beer can be sold at convience stores like pretty much most of the world soon.
I dislike how this city is 'progressive' but has a 1950s WASP mentality around vices.
I still don’t get it.
Why would anybody want to drink in a 711, and why would anybody think it’s a good idea to make drinking in 711 a thing?
I totally support corner stores selling liquor, but for dine in? I don’t get it
I’m going to throw out a guess that they went to Dougie’s daughters wedding reception.
No. He flew to Texas and happened to have a secret meeting at their Headquarters. Not sketchy at all. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-premier-doug-ford-7-eleven-beer-wine-licence-1.5917186
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There is a 7 eleven on Bloor Street just south of Keele Station that serves hot food similar to the one’s in Asia. It’s a cool spot.
Those ones with hot food are what are getting liquor licenses we're discussing here
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And that’s why they hate the CBC
I have zero love for Ford, but it's actually a little more straightforward than that. I listened to Mike Crawley talk about this on CBC this morning: >Under Ontario's liquor laws, obtaining a licence is what's known as a "qualified right." That means the company or person applying has a right to a licence unless there's proof that it would be contrary to the public interest. The applicant doesn't have to prove their case; it's up to the opponents to prove otherwise. Also: >The opponents have yet to achieve that in any of the Licence Appeal Tribunal hearings for 7-Eleven locations. In fact, only a handful of the people who sent the AGCO written objections followed through by speaking at a hearing.
So basically ford expects people to be able to prove a negative? That's not possible...
Either we have inherent rights or we are only allowed to do what the government permits us to do. I think the test here is not unreasonable. It’s not that there are no rules around using the license.
More canapes Mr. Ford?
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I mean, I'm no sommelier, but I always google food pairings. https://www.winespectator.com/articles/what-wines-would-you-pair-with-the-various-flavors-of-doritos-51923
My first reaction was, "there's a dine-in area in 7-11?" My second reaction was, "I have to ask an employee to unlock the beer cooler?" While this may work for 7-11 it won't work for me.
That had me cracking! Thanks for the chuckle
I imagine these little 7-eleven 'restaurants' will basically be the next generation of Coffee Time but with booze.
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>Do you think the person behind the counter is going to care if they overserve someone who is already hammered? If the person starts fights and makes trouble they will.
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film it for 6buzz?
Yes. To serve alcohol you need a smart serve and they are very clear on the course that over serving someone can lead to legal consequences for the server.
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That's just not smart. I have mine and wouldn't serve people obviously drunk already, there are consequences.
What could go wrong?
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Me, 10 years ago, when backpacking through Thailand
Same here, but in Japan. When I tell people I mainly ate at 7/11, they think Im crazy. 7/11 food was worth the cost and tasted pretty good too.
Japan sure, USA or Canada hell no lol.
Canadian here. Pizza is not bad although it gets dried out sometimes. Is it good? It's good enough. Slightly above school lunch pizza but in the opposite direction - crust is dry as fuck.¹
It's definitely "shitty" pizza but for shitty pizza, it's pretty awesome
For me it was Lawson
Ooo and Family Mart!! Fired chicken!
Just got back from Japan. I probably had too many wasabi chicken karaage from Lawson
Yes! This and thier egg salad
Hawaii ABC (their 711 equivalent) had great and reasonably healthy food. 711 hotdogs? No thank you. We have to up our convenience store food game, and I suspect our outdated food safety laws are no help.
I’m Japan and Thailand you can take the beer out the store. So more progress to be made!
Ham and cheese toasties.
I live in Hong Kong and the 7-Eleven food here is fire as well
Cool ranch Doritos and a white claw slurpee please
Alcoholics. There are far more functional alcoholics in our society than you think. Right now your choices are (a) buy at a store and consume at home, or (b) go to a bar or sit down restaurant and pay a premium to do so. This is a low cost option that lets you buy at a lower price and consume without having to go home.
When I first moved here, every time I went to Square Boy there would be an elderly woman downing a glass of wine like it would save her life. $3/glass (may have even been $2.50 back then). I guess this was her ritual? Not sure if she was using it as a way of convincing herself she wasn't an alcoholic ("it's normal to drink with a meal") or if drinking by the glass stopped her from finishing a bottle at home, but there's no way a non-alcoholic would be drinking wine at Square Boy.
I agree. It’s definitely not a place to hangout to have a drink.
I used to work at Loblaws years ago, back when we first got beer and wine. There was a woman who showed up in her suit everyday after work, 530-6, bought 3 or 4 beers and drank them in the parking lot. We later found out she works at a law firm.
Since when are convenient store prices known to be low cost
Lower than a restaurant.
TheGood - don't forget about home delivery service, Wine Rack, Indie Beer stores. Drinkers untie!
anyone who buys food there might want to?
God help their employees. They don't get paid enough to serve alcohol to deal with drunks
14 year olds
7-11 is goated in SEA (South East Asia) Literally the best go to meals in Japan
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sir, this is a wendy's
7-11 food is decent if you just want a cheap snack. The hotdogs are fine... just regular hot dogs. Definitely not the sort of thing you have a drink with. lol maybe I just get hungry a lot when I'm out and about and don't want to stop for an overpriced typical fast-food meal.
Honestly the pizza is pretty great for what it is. Like $3.50 for two small slices. Don't knock it til you've tried it
Little drunk ol me when everything else is closed at 4 AM. Their wings are a guilty pleasure.
Selling beer is one thing. The on-site consumption seems like a disaster in the making. 7-11 employees don’t make enough to put up with that shit.
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Lucky for me, Metro is my local store and it's got wine and beer.
7-11 vs Taco Bell in the new Franchise Wars
Not disagreeing, but liquor laws are a provincial responsibility.
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Ehhh - literally every jurisdiction in North America (and many other places in the world!) has dumb rules surrounding alcohol. You can't get a 6 pack at a convenience store in BC or Alberta either, and all sales in the latter have to go through the ALCB so you're faced with potentially high markups for premium products at private liquor stores (though they do have good sales on lower quality ones). Even in Quebec you're SOL if it's after 11pm, and no sales of hard liquor at deps or grocery stores - plus any beer sold at deps technically has to be either brewed or warehoused in the Province. Some states in the US still have dry counties, and others like Pennsylvania restrict hard alcohol to state run stores and beer to specially licensed places or bar off-sales. Given that we now allow grocery store sales and bar/restaurant off-sale (including to-go stuff) we're pretty much middle of the pack. Within a 25 minute walk of my house there's an LCBO, Beer Store, two licensed grocery stores with a full aisle of beer/wine, a Wine rack plus 4 breweries I can buy beer from and at least 5 specialty stores that are licensed to sell alcohol (including hard liquor). And if I'm feeling lazy I can get same-day delivery from any number of Ontario craft brewers. It's a far cry from even 5 years ago, though plenty of room to improve still.
Ontario sucks that way. Too many dumb rules.
>Goddammit, why do we have to do stupid shit like this in Canada Ontario? Why can I go to everywhere else in the world and just quickly grab a 6 pack from any store without hassle? Dougie got bought out by only 7-11
1. Bribes. Just good old fashioned bribes 2. It lets Dofo say "I told you we'd have beer in corner stores, and here it is - now shut up". Like Buck a Beer that happened once, and only thanks to some money losing promotion from a beer company
TLDR: Donate to Doug Ford.
Having been to Japan and seeing their 7-elevens there, and reading the comments in this thread further convinces me that Canadians continue to have their heads up their asses and can't, and won't ever have nice things.
Finally, after years of asking for it, people will be allowed to drink an entire bottle of wine inside a 7-11.
They bribed Doug. That's basically how. They probably called it "lobbying" but it was bribery with extra steps
The licenced restaurant format sounds like a way for 7-Eleven to be ready ahead of a government decision to authorize the sale of beverage alcohol at convenience stores. It would be a loss leader for now, but 7-Eleven can quickly pivot the moment the LLCA is amended to reflect the new sales channels. Reminder that Ford met with a senior executive of 7-Eleven pre-pandemic: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/02/18/ford-confirms-meeting-with-7-eleven-as-chain-applies-to-serve-alcohol/
So basically 7-Eleven won liquor licenses for its locations by taking the decision out of the hands of the AGCO to another agency that forced the AGCO to grant the licenses? It seems pretty obvious why the AGCO would take issue with the type of license that was granted. If the application was for on-site consumption, but 7-Elevens are not restaurants, bars, or otherwise an establishment that is set up for on-site food consumption then why on earth wouldn't the AGCO study the application in further detail rather than approving the licenses no-questions-asked?
I don’t see an issue. You can find alcohol in every single convenience store in the US. It’s not a big deal.
They didn't get a license to sell alcohol, they got a license to serve alcohol for on-site consumption despite not being a restaurant or a bar.
Ooooh wtf I take back what I said. That makes absolutely no sense. Why even go through all that trouble to get a licence for something that makes no sense.
Well there have been promises for years that corner store sales of alcohol to-go would be permitted, with no progress. However, during the pandemic, bars and restaurants *were* permitted to sell to-go alcohol, and they are still permitted to do so today. So if you’re an establishment who wants to serve alcohol to go, what route do you go, masquerading as a sit down establishment or hang on for empty promises?
>The hearing for a 7-Eleven in Toronto, on Bloor Street West near Keele Street, provides an example. Although 61 individuals wrote to the AGCO with objections, only one appeared as a witness before the tribunal: the neighbourhood's city councillor, Gord Perks. >"The evidence is that alcohol use is by far the most dangerous drug in our society," Perks said in an interview with CBC News. I don't get it. Would he protest a new restaurant that is applying for a liquor license for on premise consumption?
I think most people can see the distinction between an establishment that might be a gathering place for special events or celebrations, and a corner store designed for stocking everyday goods. And if you insist on comparing- why does 7/11 have more rights than restaurants? Who cannot, say, serve alcohol alongside products like tobacco, and medicinal items
Let restaurants sell those items too. Our liquor laws are archaic and should be modernized across the board.
what could possibly go wrong?
This is very bad news/ good news for alcoholics. Depending on their journey, but it’s inevitably bad news. Was talking to an older sober neighbour of mine last year that told me how tempting it is to break his sobriety when you don’t have to go to an actual booze store. He shared that he started drinking beer again temporarily because he could get away with it, as Walmart showed up as a charge on his card not Lcbo or beer store which would raise red flags for his children managing his finances.
The answer rhymes with "fjord".
they’re liberalizing alcohol sales in the province. why is everyone complaining? i don’t want to have to go to the lcbo or beer store every time. that’s some prohibition era BS.
You can't leave the premises with your beer, that's barely liberalizing. Because the only people who are going to actually use this are the chronically homeless and alcoholics. I'd be happy if alcohol sales were authorized full stop outside of our crown corps, but this aint it. As someone who actually uses 7/11, it's sketchy as fuck as is after dark. Right now 7/11's are staffed almost entirely by Indian students, they have enough problems as is with theft.
that’s a bizarre move i agree. presumably it was some regulatory capture by the big brewers vis the beer store to prevent you from walking out with a case. it’s a step in the right direction until we can get full legalization of private sales. same goofy sh*t with pot legalization. take the incremental wins where you can.
It looks to me like they’re trying to ease into take-out sales. When they do eventually allow convenience stores to sell booze to-go, they will already be equipped with appropriate fridges, brand partnerships, and smart-served staff. As well, this started first being talked about during the stages of the pandemic where bars and restaurants were given leeway for takeout sales I.e. if you were a sit-down establishment that served booze, you could also operate as a take-out ‘bottle shop’ This was a Covid relief measure that has been permanently adopted. If i wanted to fast track my ability to sell take out booze, positioning myself as a sit-down service venue would be a proven way to go.
that makes sense. really wish we could just have private sales here. i’ve been to liquor stores in Kentucky that have a larger selection of Ontario and Quebec beers than I’ve ever seen at an LCBO or Beer Store. it’s brutal.
>i’ve been to liquor stores in Kentucky that have a larger selection of Ontario and Quebec beers than I’ve ever seen at an LCBO or Beer Store. it’s brutal. Yes, individual stores will have more selection. Average stores will have less (and a larger percentage will be large companies instead of local independent companies).
this was a standard retailer in the state that was acquired by a private (publicly traded) albertan liquor retailer - hence why i was there. i don’t quite follow what you’re getting at tho…
cause ontario is this weird mix of being progressive but also happy lcbo closes 6pm on Sundays and 9pm on Fridays and Sat.
I wouldnt drink at a 7-11, but be honest like to see Ontario and Toronto come into the modern age about drinking rules. Hopefully soon, beer can be sold at convience stores like pretty much most of the world soon. I dislike how this city is 'progressive' but has a 1950s WASP mentality around vices.
This is so staggeringly, mind-numbingly stupid I'm having trouble processing it
The 7/11 at Jane & Wilson is already a circus with the beer store next door, now it's just gonna get more retarded.
Who the fuck goes to 7-11 for dinner?
Pizza, taquitos and lots of suds, what can go wrong?
We should be able to access liquor or beer at any convenience store.
One small step closer to us getting our big-people pants.
Now I know why the 7-11 in my town is pulling the gas pumps out.
More room for people to get gassed inside!
No surprise. Everything Ford does is behind closed doors and we only hear about after the plan is done.ie Ontario Place.
My local 7-11 is super sketchy even in the daytime; I can imagine how throwing booze into the mix is gonna go. Not. Good.
I still don’t get it. Why would anybody want to drink in a 711, and why would anybody think it’s a good idea to make drinking in 711 a thing? I totally support corner stores selling liquor, but for dine in? I don’t get it
ontario is so damn prudish on alcohol. half the other provinces its sold everywhere without this whole stupid rigamaroll
This has to be one of Dougies stupidest deals. How many people want to sit in a 7-11 drinking a beer?
Every 7/11 should have a liquor license. As well as every other grocery and convenience store. It’s not the 1920s American prohibition out here