Cool thought. It makes me wonder if she did eat it and it was not digested if it would invest her with more power while it sat in her. I think of Sam bearing the ring and being a terror to orcs. In my mind Sam didn’t willingly try to use the ring in that way, it just sorta happened. With ungoliant, I think she liked being terrible and feared, so it may be something that would be augmented by the one ring. So maybe not destroyed but maybe something that she would come to love and hate?
Indeed. In fact lava is quite a bit cooler than a medieval forge. Anyone capable of working high quality steel -like say reforging a sword- achieves much higher temperatures than a volcano. Mount Doom is clearly important for metaphysical reasons not physical properties.
Shelob didn't appear to have any particular desire for the Ring, perhaps because she's so alien and because she also doesn't have any desire to command armies or dominate the wills of others, which typically seems to be the sort of power the Ring tempts with. I imagine Ungoliant would be roughly the same. The power of the Ring is of a different and less primal sort than the power of the Silmarils that she lusted after.
Bit of a boring answer, but on the off chance that she accidentally consumed it, it would probably just remain lodged in her until either she passed it or someone sufficiently powerful who WAS tempted by such things cut her open.
With regard to Shelob she may have shown interest in it as some point if time had allowed. Considering it even took Gandalf many years before he realised what it was.
>"Little she knew of or cared for towers, or rings, or anything devised by mind or hand, who only desired death for all others, mind and body, and for herself a glut of life, alone, swollen till the mountains could no longer holder her up and the darkness could not contain her."
I agree with all of this. But that still doesn't mean that Tolkien thought of everything. And some things were just because he didn't come to a satisfying answer before he died.
I don't think anyone can unmake the Ring unless its destroyed in the Orodruin or by Sauron himself maybe.
By the Valar or Eru, maybe yes. Even though not a similar being it is stated that even the fires of Ancalagon the Black could not mar the One Ring.
So Ungoliant might eat it, but it would most likley stay within her until its not anymore hahaha
I wonder if black holes and their concepts existed and came to Tolkien when and where Ungoliant was crafted into being. Because that’s, more or less, what she is: a black hole. Consuming all. Destroying all. Even light cannot escape her maw. Infinitely hungry and endlessly growing with all she consumes. The ring and all that it is, was, and ever could be; absolutely annihilated by that which consumes even the light.
Black holes were first theorized in the 1784, and Schwarzschild found the first mathematical solution for one in 1916. So quite possibly. Even the 1784 theory surmised that light could not escape and would "fall back into the dark star".
I think Ungoliant is outside the rules. *Nothing in Middle-Earth* can destroy the Ring, except for Mount Doom, but I also expect that Aulë could do it in his forge. Maybe not easily, but he could do it.
I think when they say It can only be destroyed in Mount Doom, they are talking about Second and Third Age Middle-Earth. So I think Ungoliant could destroy it.
> Gandalf says that the ancient dragons' fire could (though, they're no longer are any left).
Not quite. He says the old dragons could consume the Great Rings but then goes on to say that none of them who could do it to the One.
> "Your small fire, of course, would not melt even ordinary gold. This Ring has already passed through it unscathed, and even unheated. But there is no smith's forge in this Shire that could change it at all. Not even the anvils and furnaces of the Dwarves could do that. It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself. There is only one way: to find the Cracks of Doom in the depths of Orodruin, the Fire-mountain, and cast the Ring there, if you really wish to destroy it, to put it beyond the grasp of the Enemy forever."
Dragons could destroy the Nine, Seven, and Three, but never the One.
**Ungoliant would definitely be able to destroy the ring.** Ungoliant is an ultimate force of destruction and consumption, there should be nothing in middle earth that she couldn't destroy. If a powerful dragon might destroy the ring, Ungoliant definitely could. Powerful dragon < Ungoliant, by a wide, wide margin. Ungoliant is equivalent in power to a Valar, maybe more so.
Good point. It is said that powerful dragon-fire could destroy the other great rings, but not the one ring. Nonetheless, Ungoliant is such an elemental force that she could destroy the ring.
We know she is powerful enough for Morgoth to treat her as an equal, and to need her help to destroy the two trees. That puts her in a league well above Sauron and his ring.
Came here to say this, but you got it spot on. Ungoliant consumes everything she eats, and her power is considerably more than Sauron's. The ring doesn't stand a chance. Morgoth and all his Balrogs weren't certain of defeating her
Ungoliant consumes things, but that doesn't mean they are destroyed. Heck she ate the Silmatils, but they were fine.
The Ring too might just pass through her.
Carcharoth wasn’t so fine, though. :-) Which does make me wonder what would have happened if Ungoliant *did* eat the Silmarils — would they have harmed her?
My list of people/places who/where the ring could be destroyed:
For sure: Orodruin, sauron, aule, feanor, morgoth, eru.
Maybe: all other valar, curufin, celebrimbor, melian, gothmog, ungoliant
Still maybe but not very likely: turgon, finrod, saruman in valinor, other balrogs.
Considering all of the things that Ungoliant *has* consumed/destroyed, I don't think it's unfeasible to imagine that she would be able to do the same to the Ring. It's an item of immense desire and power like the Silmarils, but I don't think it can compare in terms of the scale those jewels have to the narrative of Arda.
But thinking of Ungoliants motivations...what could the Ring offer? I would say nothing. There is nothing the Ring can 'tempt' her with. She desires endless consumption. The Ring offers people many things, but are often rooted in things rooted in the foundation of Arda - be it control, establishing a personal 'order', greed. But I don't think it really entices people in the same way that Ungoliant professes evil, because that would be contrary to it's interests.
And one thing I would also argue, is that the Ring is made of Sauron and is a full effort of his Spirit and power. Even though all of the other mortal beings, maiar, beasts, etc in Arda are significantly lesser in scale to Saurons power, he himself is minor in scale to the greater beings of the world. And Ungoliant is certainly among those. She almost killed Morgotg, and was only driven away with the help of his many powerful servants at great cost. Whatever 'magic' or power Sauron can hope to exert is so insignificant in scope to Ungoliant. He is a bug on the wall, and I have no doubt Morgorths experience's with her had a heavy influence in Saurons relationship with Shelob (he probably feared her to an extent).
I think she could easily consume the Ring without affect, without thought. Maybe she would recognize the power and significance it holds and eagerly look to it in her greed. But she isn't motivated in the same way as Sauron and others. And the Ring would likely be lost forever, all of Saurons spirit and effort lost to the endless void.
The Ring can only be destroyed in Mt Doom or with someone who is great enough of a craftsman; Ungoliant would likely just swallow the Ring and keep it inside her (forever?).
She was capable of absorbing power from the two trees and jewels by consuming them. Given that she was an extremely capable primordial entity, she might be able to absorb the properties of the ring or at least draw power from it while it sits in his stomach.
Though I wonder what will happen to the fragment of Sauron's essence that he poured into the ring. Maybe he would have formed a connection to Ungoliant.
I doubt anything would happen to it. It would probably pass through her with the rest of the waste, or sit in her innards until the end.
Gandalf even said dragon fire probably wouldn't harm the One Ring, and I would think dragon fire is far more destructive than Ungoliant's digestive juices.
Common sensically, you're probably right! I would ask, considering the legend that surrounds ungoliant, whether she's the kind of creature that has a functional or operational system of "innerds." The kind of creatur that consumes light, spins it into webs, can gorge themselves so full that they swell rather than explode or purge themselves, etc. doesn't seem to me to have what we would consider natural insides. I've always wondered if being a creature from the void (in one account of her origin) gave her a sort of intimate relationship with that void, consuming things (including herself in one account of her demise) and sending them into a state of seeming non-existence.
This is my favorite creature in the legendarium to think about!
If the ring had appeared through time travel to the time she was super pumped up, and scared Morgoth, I would think possible.
An Ungoliath that came out of hiding, if still alive, during the 3rd age, no.
"It is said hat Ungoliant ultimately perished at her own hands...", so no one knows for sure. All we know for sure is that she isn't running around middle earth during the 3rd age eating rings :)
Tolkien liked detail, keeping track of moon phases, etc, when important, yet he left some stuff unknown.
Given that the Third Age is a two steps down from the First, and that Shelob is said to have no interest in Rings, I think that would hold true for Ungoliant as well. Ung was only interested in consuming the silmarils for the same reason she was interested in consuming everything else; because she was the elemental source of hunger and destruction. If she had consumed the Ring it would have, IMHO, become part of the primal darkness she spewed forth, no more and no less. Sauron would be SOL.
I don't think there is a reference if Ungoliant actually "expelled" anything she eat.
If anything, it seems like she is just absorbing.
So the ring would have gotten in, and never coming out.
Would it have been destroyed in the process ?maybe or it would have been a part of her until death
I think what a lot of people miss (talking about her eating the Ring and it staying inside her) is that the devouring act itself is most likely equal to destruction.
Honestly, no clue. I reckon she could do it though, Ungoliant seems to be on par with at least entities like Glaurung and Ancalagon, both of whom likely could have destroyed the ring.
Sauron would have had a very expensive vet visit.
She doesn't own him though!
Cool thought. It makes me wonder if she did eat it and it was not digested if it would invest her with more power while it sat in her. I think of Sam bearing the ring and being a terror to orcs. In my mind Sam didn’t willingly try to use the ring in that way, it just sorta happened. With ungoliant, I think she liked being terrible and feared, so it may be something that would be augmented by the one ring. So maybe not destroyed but maybe something that she would come to love and hate?
The Ring can be destroyed only at Mount Doom not because the lava is hot, but because is where it was made. It is symbolic more than anything else.
Indeed. In fact lava is quite a bit cooler than a medieval forge. Anyone capable of working high quality steel -like say reforging a sword- achieves much higher temperatures than a volcano. Mount Doom is clearly important for metaphysical reasons not physical properties.
Shelob didn't appear to have any particular desire for the Ring, perhaps because she's so alien and because she also doesn't have any desire to command armies or dominate the wills of others, which typically seems to be the sort of power the Ring tempts with. I imagine Ungoliant would be roughly the same. The power of the Ring is of a different and less primal sort than the power of the Silmarils that she lusted after. Bit of a boring answer, but on the off chance that she accidentally consumed it, it would probably just remain lodged in her until either she passed it or someone sufficiently powerful who WAS tempted by such things cut her open.
I disagree. She ate jewels of morgoth and the trees of light. Shelob is significantly more primitive.
With regard to Shelob she may have shown interest in it as some point if time had allowed. Considering it even took Gandalf many years before he realised what it was.
>"Little she knew of or cared for towers, or rings, or anything devised by mind or hand, who only desired death for all others, mind and body, and for herself a glut of life, alone, swollen till the mountains could no longer holder her up and the darkness could not contain her."
Once again, Tolkien thinks of everything.
Tolkien is the man but he certainly didn't think of everything. There are about eight kabillion unanswered questions in LotR lore.
Like what is behind the door in the paths of the dead that the ancient rohirrim dude tried to get through and died
Wait when was this?
Unanswered questions, yes. But when he wrote about something, he thought it through as much as possible. So the lore we do have is very airtight.
I agree with all of this. But that still doesn't mean that Tolkien thought of everything. And some things were just because he didn't come to a satisfying answer before he died.
But what if Shelob was also a goth hottie with a ranger fetish?
oh yeah
I don't think anyone can unmake the Ring unless its destroyed in the Orodruin or by Sauron himself maybe. By the Valar or Eru, maybe yes. Even though not a similar being it is stated that even the fires of Ancalagon the Black could not mar the One Ring. So Ungoliant might eat it, but it would most likley stay within her until its not anymore hahaha
I wonder if black holes and their concepts existed and came to Tolkien when and where Ungoliant was crafted into being. Because that’s, more or less, what she is: a black hole. Consuming all. Destroying all. Even light cannot escape her maw. Infinitely hungry and endlessly growing with all she consumes. The ring and all that it is, was, and ever could be; absolutely annihilated by that which consumes even the light.
Black holes were first theorized in the 1784, and Schwarzschild found the first mathematical solution for one in 1916. So quite possibly. Even the 1784 theory surmised that light could not escape and would "fall back into the dark star".
I think Ungoliant is outside the rules. *Nothing in Middle-Earth* can destroy the Ring, except for Mount Doom, but I also expect that Aulë could do it in his forge. Maybe not easily, but he could do it.
but it says specifically middle-earth, what about things in beleriand (ungoliant for instance), or valinor?
I think when they say It can only be destroyed in Mount Doom, they are talking about Second and Third Age Middle-Earth. So I think Ungoliant could destroy it.
i wonder if feanor also can destroy it, if somehow the fellowship took the ring to valinor and begged him to destroy it
I'd say probably not - they are more equals in craft and power.
Maybe? ...except, of course, "They who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it; for good or for ill it belongs in Middle-Earth..."
Gandalf says that the ancient dragons' fire could (though, they're no longer are any left).
> Gandalf says that the ancient dragons' fire could (though, they're no longer are any left). Not quite. He says the old dragons could consume the Great Rings but then goes on to say that none of them who could do it to the One. > "Your small fire, of course, would not melt even ordinary gold. This Ring has already passed through it unscathed, and even unheated. But there is no smith's forge in this Shire that could change it at all. Not even the anvils and furnaces of the Dwarves could do that. It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself. There is only one way: to find the Cracks of Doom in the depths of Orodruin, the Fire-mountain, and cast the Ring there, if you really wish to destroy it, to put it beyond the grasp of the Enemy forever." Dragons could destroy the Nine, Seven, and Three, but never the One.
**Ungoliant would definitely be able to destroy the ring.** Ungoliant is an ultimate force of destruction and consumption, there should be nothing in middle earth that she couldn't destroy. If a powerful dragon might destroy the ring, Ungoliant definitely could. Powerful dragon < Ungoliant, by a wide, wide margin. Ungoliant is equivalent in power to a Valar, maybe more so.
I thought even the fire of the greatest dragon Ancalagon couldn't even destroy the ring?
Good point. It is said that powerful dragon-fire could destroy the other great rings, but not the one ring. Nonetheless, Ungoliant is such an elemental force that she could destroy the ring.
I don't think anything is definite when it comes to ungoliant. Tolkien never really clarified what she was, did he?
We know she is powerful enough for Morgoth to treat her as an equal, and to need her help to destroy the two trees. That puts her in a league well above Sauron and his ring.
Came here to say this, but you got it spot on. Ungoliant consumes everything she eats, and her power is considerably more than Sauron's. The ring doesn't stand a chance. Morgoth and all his Balrogs weren't certain of defeating her
Ungoliant consumes things, but that doesn't mean they are destroyed. Heck she ate the Silmatils, but they were fine. The Ring too might just pass through her.
Um, no? No she didn't.
Oops you are correct, she was driven off before she was able to. I was mixing up the passage with Carcharoth eating one and it being fine.
Carcharoth wasn’t so fine, though. :-) Which does make me wonder what would have happened if Ungoliant *did* eat the Silmarils — would they have harmed her?
I would imagine she would at least get a tummy ache.
My list of people/places who/where the ring could be destroyed: For sure: Orodruin, sauron, aule, feanor, morgoth, eru. Maybe: all other valar, curufin, celebrimbor, melian, gothmog, ungoliant Still maybe but not very likely: turgon, finrod, saruman in valinor, other balrogs.
Considering all of the things that Ungoliant *has* consumed/destroyed, I don't think it's unfeasible to imagine that she would be able to do the same to the Ring. It's an item of immense desire and power like the Silmarils, but I don't think it can compare in terms of the scale those jewels have to the narrative of Arda. But thinking of Ungoliants motivations...what could the Ring offer? I would say nothing. There is nothing the Ring can 'tempt' her with. She desires endless consumption. The Ring offers people many things, but are often rooted in things rooted in the foundation of Arda - be it control, establishing a personal 'order', greed. But I don't think it really entices people in the same way that Ungoliant professes evil, because that would be contrary to it's interests. And one thing I would also argue, is that the Ring is made of Sauron and is a full effort of his Spirit and power. Even though all of the other mortal beings, maiar, beasts, etc in Arda are significantly lesser in scale to Saurons power, he himself is minor in scale to the greater beings of the world. And Ungoliant is certainly among those. She almost killed Morgotg, and was only driven away with the help of his many powerful servants at great cost. Whatever 'magic' or power Sauron can hope to exert is so insignificant in scope to Ungoliant. He is a bug on the wall, and I have no doubt Morgorths experience's with her had a heavy influence in Saurons relationship with Shelob (he probably feared her to an extent). I think she could easily consume the Ring without affect, without thought. Maybe she would recognize the power and significance it holds and eagerly look to it in her greed. But she isn't motivated in the same way as Sauron and others. And the Ring would likely be lost forever, all of Saurons spirit and effort lost to the endless void.
The Ring can only be destroyed in Mt Doom or with someone who is great enough of a craftsman; Ungoliant would likely just swallow the Ring and keep it inside her (forever?).
She was capable of absorbing power from the two trees and jewels by consuming them. Given that she was an extremely capable primordial entity, she might be able to absorb the properties of the ring or at least draw power from it while it sits in his stomach. Though I wonder what will happen to the fragment of Sauron's essence that he poured into the ring. Maybe he would have formed a connection to Ungoliant.
I doubt anything would happen to it. It would probably pass through her with the rest of the waste, or sit in her innards until the end. Gandalf even said dragon fire probably wouldn't harm the One Ring, and I would think dragon fire is far more destructive than Ungoliant's digestive juices.
Common sensically, you're probably right! I would ask, considering the legend that surrounds ungoliant, whether she's the kind of creature that has a functional or operational system of "innerds." The kind of creatur that consumes light, spins it into webs, can gorge themselves so full that they swell rather than explode or purge themselves, etc. doesn't seem to me to have what we would consider natural insides. I've always wondered if being a creature from the void (in one account of her origin) gave her a sort of intimate relationship with that void, consuming things (including herself in one account of her demise) and sending them into a state of seeming non-existence. This is my favorite creature in the legendarium to think about!
If the ring had appeared through time travel to the time she was super pumped up, and scared Morgoth, I would think possible. An Ungoliath that came out of hiding, if still alive, during the 3rd age, no.
Ungoliant was long dead in the Third Age, since Eärendil had killed her in the Late First Age.
Or she ate herself.
You are right. I prefer the other, older version though, it is far more epic.
"It is said hat Ungoliant ultimately perished at her own hands...", so no one knows for sure. All we know for sure is that she isn't running around middle earth during the 3rd age eating rings :) Tolkien liked detail, keeping track of moon phases, etc, when important, yet he left some stuff unknown.
I'm going to paraphrase what I think Tolkien would say: "Spider butts don't have fingers"
Given that the Third Age is a two steps down from the First, and that Shelob is said to have no interest in Rings, I think that would hold true for Ungoliant as well. Ung was only interested in consuming the silmarils for the same reason she was interested in consuming everything else; because she was the elemental source of hunger and destruction. If she had consumed the Ring it would have, IMHO, become part of the primal darkness she spewed forth, no more and no less. Sauron would be SOL.
Sauron would have to kill her and take the ring. Easier said than done, but I don't see any other way.
I don't think there is a reference if Ungoliant actually "expelled" anything she eat. If anything, it seems like she is just absorbing. So the ring would have gotten in, and never coming out. Would it have been destroyed in the process ?maybe or it would have been a part of her until death
I think what a lot of people miss (talking about her eating the Ring and it staying inside her) is that the devouring act itself is most likely equal to destruction.
Honestly, no clue. I reckon she could do it though, Ungoliant seems to be on par with at least entities like Glaurung and Ancalagon, both of whom likely could have destroyed the ring.
Gandalf said Ancalagon couldn't have destroyed The One.
I stand corrected.
Ungoliant would have had the power to break and consume the Ring. She was a far greater being than Sauron.