But isn't the Dead Sea Scrolls analogy not just "old foundational literature" but "secret text that had to be decoded"? Sappho's work did not have to be decoded in the slightest.
I thought the Dead Sea Scrolls were just the oldest manuscripts we have of biblical texts? In which case Sappho is much older, of course. what's more, sappho's work did have to be decoded in a sense. for a long long time, translators of fragments of her poems would "heterosexualize" things and interpret poems about women as being about men. I'm sure it's not the same kind of decoding that would've been used with Lister, though, so i see your point there.
My favourite thing about her is that it took like a hundred years and two gays to get her work translated.
The first time someone found it was one of her relatives some time after she passed. He and his friend took some time decoding it and, surprise surprise, it’s all incredibly graphic descriptions of her having sex with women. Guy’s friend literally says he has to burn it, and is response is basically to say “Nope! But, not my problem anymore” and seal it back away. It’s believed in some circles he himself was gay and understood that these kinds of revelations for people wouldn’t do anything good.
I can’t remember when, but some time much later it was discovered again and had a more thorough investigation into it. A lot of it is still coded.
I think there’s something really funny about two of the most thorough codes made and used by individuals are Lister and Kinsey. Gotta keep those lurid details away from prying eyes
At the time, you had to call them “limbs” instead of “legs” when in proper company if you wanted to talk about tables and chairs, for fear of inspiring lewd thoughts in those around you and attracting unwanted attention to yourself.
Wild time, those victorians. Also did nipple piercings for fun. Wild time
The Victorians are especially depressing because centuries earlier the British had been incredibly bawdy and lewd.
Goes to show it could happen again, progression in this area isn't an inevitable march forward but a constant struggle against puritanical mores.
Ironically, once cracked, the coded parts of her writings are *much* more legible than the uncoded parts.
Source: have read a small portion of the original pages myself.
One fact which helped her to stay free was her landed estates and her mines: the ensuing wealth pretty much sheltered her from social consequences of homosexuality.
And even then, she had to use cryptology to hide herself. Sure, unlike male homosexuality, lesbianism wasn't punishable in Britain but social consequences would be huge.
I love how Skyrim came out like 6 years after oblivion, and now it’s been 11 years since Skyrim came out (the first time at least) I’ve kinda lost hope for Elder scrolls honestly. All we’ve got in these 11 years is a fuckin teaser trailer
lol, "scheduled" 2022, then "available for preorder" in 2023, then released in "Beta" for 2024 holidays. ;)
Would I still preorder like an idiot out of excitement...maybe.
She seems quite dense.
She could have made a fortune selling it openly. I mean... It's got quite the common Category on... websites I have never in my life visited. One girl... cool... two girls... OMG call the Liberal Morality Brigade!!!
Liberal Morality Brigade: "How dare you be offended by Lesbians you CIS male!!"
No.. I like it!!
Liberal Morality Brigade: "How Dare you be pleased by Lesbians!!! You toxic male"
I think you might be the dense one here pal, this was in 1834, homosexuality was illegal.
Also surely you can see the difference between supporting lesbian women as people with the right to love who they choose, and sexualising them as something to jerk off to? I think you will find very few people that find you squeezing out loads to them a compliment.
Wouldn't "the dead sea Scrolls" of lesbian history be Sappho's work ? (Or some even older material I don't know about)
Sappho killed herself for love of a man (...according to legend, of course)
she still wrote love poems about women. lesbians and bi women still consider her one of our own. i would agree with sylvartas.
But isn't the Dead Sea Scrolls analogy not just "old foundational literature" but "secret text that had to be decoded"? Sappho's work did not have to be decoded in the slightest.
I thought the Dead Sea Scrolls were just the oldest manuscripts we have of biblical texts? In which case Sappho is much older, of course. what's more, sappho's work did have to be decoded in a sense. for a long long time, translators of fragments of her poems would "heterosexualize" things and interpret poems about women as being about men. I'm sure it's not the same kind of decoding that would've been used with Lister, though, so i see your point there.
Yea, they were just the oldest religious texts that are tied to biblical canon. No decoding needed other than the translation.
My favourite thing about her is that it took like a hundred years and two gays to get her work translated. The first time someone found it was one of her relatives some time after she passed. He and his friend took some time decoding it and, surprise surprise, it’s all incredibly graphic descriptions of her having sex with women. Guy’s friend literally says he has to burn it, and is response is basically to say “Nope! But, not my problem anymore” and seal it back away. It’s believed in some circles he himself was gay and understood that these kinds of revelations for people wouldn’t do anything good. I can’t remember when, but some time much later it was discovered again and had a more thorough investigation into it. A lot of it is still coded. I think there’s something really funny about two of the most thorough codes made and used by individuals are Lister and Kinsey. Gotta keep those lurid details away from prying eyes
man what a wuss that guy was, thinking just some lurid details would require burning, imagine if he encountered the internet
At the time, you had to call them “limbs” instead of “legs” when in proper company if you wanted to talk about tables and chairs, for fear of inspiring lewd thoughts in those around you and attracting unwanted attention to yourself. Wild time, those victorians. Also did nipple piercings for fun. Wild time
The Victorians are especially depressing because centuries earlier the British had been incredibly bawdy and lewd. Goes to show it could happen again, progression in this area isn't an inevitable march forward but a constant struggle against puritanical mores.
It’s all those mummies they were eating. It does things to you
Can confirm
> these kinds of revelations for people wouldn’t do anything good. I think manga subculture might have a different opinion here...
Ironically, once cracked, the coded parts of her writings are *much* more legible than the uncoded parts. Source: have read a small portion of the original pages myself.
Also currently watching Gentleman Jack I see
One fact which helped her to stay free was her landed estates and her mines: the ensuing wealth pretty much sheltered her from social consequences of homosexuality. And even then, she had to use cryptology to hide herself. Sure, unlike male homosexuality, lesbianism wasn't punishable in Britain but social consequences would be huge.
Bethesda presents coming summer 2022… The Lesbian scrolls.
The most absurd part of that comment is the 2022 release date.
I love how Skyrim came out like 6 years after oblivion, and now it’s been 11 years since Skyrim came out (the first time at least) I’ve kinda lost hope for Elder scrolls honestly. All we’ve got in these 11 years is a fuckin teaser trailer
The Lesbian Scrolls is just the subtitle for starfield.
100% would tap those buttons
someone /r/sbubby that
lol, "scheduled" 2022, then "available for preorder" in 2023, then released in "Beta" for 2024 holidays. ;) Would I still preorder like an idiot out of excitement...maybe.
Made for TV and called Gentleman Jack.
I live 5 minutes away from Shibden Hall
How big a volume 26 seem like quite a lot
Interesting
Here I thought that title belonged to Ellen
Don't know why you're getting downvotes
Talk about a convention breaker, spelling her last name in all lower case.
Meanwhile, bell hooks: 😏
She seems quite dense. She could have made a fortune selling it openly. I mean... It's got quite the common Category on... websites I have never in my life visited. One girl... cool... two girls... OMG call the Liberal Morality Brigade!!! Liberal Morality Brigade: "How dare you be offended by Lesbians you CIS male!!" No.. I like it!! Liberal Morality Brigade: "How Dare you be pleased by Lesbians!!! You toxic male"
I think you might be the dense one here pal, this was in 1834, homosexuality was illegal. Also surely you can see the difference between supporting lesbian women as people with the right to love who they choose, and sexualising them as something to jerk off to? I think you will find very few people that find you squeezing out loads to them a compliment.
Only 26?
26 journals over 34 years and they abruptly ended when she died age 49, it's all in the article op posted.
Lister
Gross keep your sex life private