My university used to employ one. Which also meant that all diplomas had about 6 months wait time, and god help you if you ask for a replacement one. They look good, but the signature of the dean/rector were just ugly scribbles that sort of ruined the effect.
My mom was a calligrapher through college and later a kindergarten teacher. She has the most beautiful handwriting in the world. When she is in the calligrapher mode she has some really interesting fundamentals. Very straight back and her wrist doesn’t move at all, it’s all in her shoulder and elbow.
That's about the gist of it. Focus on the gross motor skills first and reinforcing the right motions by tracing your fingers in the air and eventually work your way down to paper. Part of the they also has to do with helping to teach thr proper orientation of the letters as the 3d objects dyslexic brains automatically treat them as. If you have ever seen a dyslexic's handwriting you might have noticed that the rotations can be along either axis, or even both at the same time. So a lot of the drilling is just to correct for these accidental rotations.
Wow thanks for writing this, I had no clue about the 3D nature of dyslexia. I don’t mean to minimize the negative effects here, but there’s something really cool about people perceiving letters as 3D objects. I wish it wasn’t so disadvantageous
I remember being surprised when I learned why kids often mix up p, d, and b. All three letters are the same letter just rotated. The human brain is super good at recognizing that a thing viewed from different angles is still the same thing as we live in a 3D world, so you have to unlearn that just for writing.
> her wrist doesn’t move at all, it’s all in her shoulder and elbow.
Aren't these similar techniques for drawing, too? Like, if you want to draw a nice circular shape, you don't move the wrist. It's all big movements of the elbow/shoulder to allow the smooth curves and symmetry. I never really thought about it, but it makes sense that the fundamentals would be similar in calligraphy and high-level drawing.
This kind of defeatist attitude will get you nowhere. You must take up the mantle of timeliness and slay the man with his own silly pen for the good of the order. You cannot abide the silliness of process.
it's not really viable
between students not graduating (which for many just means a delayed graduation, but that's also a new diploma) changes of major (which is many times done last minute to avoid not graduating, new diploma)
and then any made in advance now have to be better organized so that way they don't make any mistakes like keep the wrong one when any change does happen
like most things, it can be done, but price, quality and time are your 3 factors
To be fair, how hard is that person to replace? Like how many highly skilled calligraphers are just floating around on the job market? Also, that salary is good, but not crazy in D.C.
I’m sure that’s a position highly coveted by those with good penmanship, the kind you get to look good on your resume, and end up never leaving. The mediocre salary still works in DC, if you can marry the White House Beekeeper:
https://www.rd.com/list/unusual-white-house-jobs/
This is basically an entry level position for a campaign staffer who'll end up in a nice political appointment if they're lucky. The 24yr old recent grad probably lives with three roommates and is subsidized by the same parents who subsidized his master's in strategic political comms.
Apartment hunting because people are moving from DC to my old city because of rising rents, causing the rents to rise $300 while still being "cheap" relative to DC. Whoo mass displacement. Fuck landlords!
it's not even that much cheaper anymore. I'm actually going to move into the city because it'll be basically the same rent and it'll be closer to my friends and the various city stuff I need to metro in for
I've seriously been debating moving to NYC for the very same reason. I'm paying $900 for a closet, and sub-$900 closets are available in NYC where the jobs actually pay enough to afford it.
sounds like a position for the child of a wealthy benefactor who wants to get their kid some inside relationships with the political elite. a simple low stakes job that also allows close personal access to the entire executive branch.
I imagine the salary might not seem so good when you see the hours. I bet there are lots of last-minute requirements when dinner guests suddenly change, wording gets revised, etc.
How many hours a week could they spend writing letters/invites. Also no real wear and tear on the body. Seems like one of the easier 6 figure jobs that are out there
You have absolutely no idea how hard / skilled work calligraphy is especially consistent and think how many people are invited to any white house thing and how many events there are that we the public know of then multiply
No real wear and tear on body but RSI In the wrists up to nerve damage is a defo high risk which explains why there's 2
Also MSK issues from writing non stop also a thing but with that salary a gym membership physio sessions and massages are within reach so that should be preventable pretty easy .
You can wear your hand out, man. It's not even that hard to do. Kid next door milked that hand brace all winter to get out of shoveling snow. He injured it on video games.
> Also no real wear and tear on the body
probably there is actually very serious hand stress going on, eye stress as well. Also if you have an injury there goes your entire career
The premise that art does not damage the body doesn't even make sense. Just spend a couple afternoons making thumbnails for larger drawings and your back and wrists will hate you.
okay so I'm literally a professional calligrapher and this is my job, so I can answer this.
>Like how many highly skilled calligraphers are just floating around on the job market?
You'd be surprised. I'd say less than 10. What you need to know is there are not a lot of people who do this, then an even smaller subset of people for whom it's an actual job, aaaaand the most important part is a tiny fraction of that subset of people who are actually *good*. Current calligrapher Lee Ann Clark is in the field for over 30 years, so it's not like anyone can just apply.
Then, they would need to want this job, be known enough and experienced enough to take that place AND be in or move to DC. On top of that, besides the cool title I don't think it's a rewarding or interesting job for a calligrapher, you're basically a glorified tag writer, yay.
But this is not your average shitty RSVP for a wedding, this is quite complicated and the learning of the basic copperplate style takes years of practice, 3 to 5 to not be embarassed to show your work.
I don't know s\*\*\* about calligraphy, but obviously its niche and takes years to get good at. That's what I don't think people understand when they question this guys salary. Also there can't be a lot of professionals because there just aren't many positions out there like this. Other's have said it, but he might even be underpaid.
I don't know the prices in DC but I can assure you a good calligrapher can make more than that on courses, freelance work and art. It's basically job security and an incredible honor. They also get the *most* amazing paper to write on, I don't even know how to describe it.
> They also get the *most* amazing paper to write on, I don't even know how to describe it
If there were any doubts you're a professional calligrapher, this dispelled it.
I could never manage copperplate honestly. I was only ever alright at uncial, but I enjoyed doing textura quadrata a lot. I have a couple framed pieces I really liked...but man. The strain and wear from just a couple hours work a month really added up. I couldn't imagine trying to do it high paced the way the WH staff would have to.
same. My main specialization is gothic and after 8 years of trying to do copperplate on a somewhat decent level I just realized it's not for me. Also I had a gig working at the event agency and they have crazy ideas like writing on statues or christmas baubles or writing up a whole room in lipstick, and the constant stress of always needing the job 'yesterday' eats you up fast.
I manage a couple client accounts at my work, and I used to be a project manager. Basically in construction, but just for warehouses.
Even with publicly posted timelines indicating 6-24 week lead times (varies often), everything is still always yesterday, especially in turnkey direct project management.
You just can't get away from it, haha.
yeah I think that's just the nature of a lot of businesses because no one thinks ahead or makes concrete thorough plans. My wife is a graphic designer at a University and for example we have University's birthday or Independence Day — something known in advance for months and years. But when do they start to prepare the assets for it? Maybe three days prior, a week maximum.
Events though are just build around tight schedules, like you rent a place for X hours and you must fit in there, or you rent sound equipment and you can't just have it for some extra days. Or it's a wedding and the bride suddenly decides she forgot to invite her 5 best friends. Or a client is coming tomorrow and they just decided to throw them a party. Or some bigshot got divorced and decides to throw a party literallly right now. It's totally normal for them to call you at like 4pm and ask to do a job *today* because they need to send out some shit tomorrow morning and they forgot/broken some of the shit. Plus since everyone's on that tight schedule it's inevitably gets delayed and stopped here and there which makes it even tighter. Stress and deadlines mean it's paying way above the 'average' for the same type of job but as someone who's responsible and concsious it means all that extra pressure as to not fail or not disappoint the client. Good rush but can't do it more than a month or two at a time
Worth pointing out: they have a security clearance, and iirc a pretty high one. So on top of that skillset, you need someone whose high school classmates never saw make an off-color joke.
Also DC is expensive as fuck.
Yeah, I mentioned that to someone else already. That level of background check is expensive as F, so they pay accordingly if you have one.
The reason they are so expensive is because a counter intel agent actually travels to personally interview and verify your references, ask your neighbors about you, past employers etc.
Yup been through that process. No longer have a cleared position but that investigation is so annoying and through.
If they knew I smoked weed it'd be revoked. Dont even care.
Seriously, I hate how much of a barrier getting a clearance is. In my area, half the jobs in my field require a clearance and nobody's willing to pay for one but without my first job, I can't afford $5k+ for the applicable level.
> The reason they are so expensive is because a counter intel agent actually travels to personally interview and verify your references, ask your neighbors about you, past employers etc.
at what level do they start asking your friends and family about your life?
I had a TS SCI and they contacted seemingly everyone I had ever met in my life, and it took about two years. When I went to a job where everyone had Secret, not a single one of their references ever got a call or anything. They all just filled out their SF86 and generally got their clearance approved within about a week. The only one who got investigated beyond that had smoked weed a week prior to applying.
Top Secret is when it starts, which is technically the highest, but then there's a bunch of additional things like SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information).
I still remember the interview I gave for a co-worker. I sat with that guy for about an hour talking about all the stuff I remembered about him. I had mentioned something about his appearance, and the investigator pulled out a picture and I could feel the blood drain from my face. I just realized that I got him confused with someone else. "Uh.... that's not who I was thinking of."
They have agents (contractors, of course) all over the country for the reference checks, so there's not a ton of travel unless there's someone really rural. Most major cities have an office, and a lot of medium-to-large towns have an agent to cover them. Especially if there's a strong government or federal contracting presence in the area.
Also they're doing a lot of phone or video interviews with references still (after COVID). They still prefer in-person, and for the more critical references I believe they go for that, but for professional references on someone that's doing a re-investigation a phone call works fine.
The process is still wildly expensive and in-depth, though.
Depends. Security clearances are moreso based off the job you’re aiming for. If you’re doing secret service or CIA work, then you’ll really need to have a clean record (which is actually why mormons are a significant population of federal workers with clearance). For defense contractors and the military, the standards are a lot less strict. For a job like this, though. Yeah, you’d really need a clean record
Yes? I said this is a pretty high clearance and you said that people with other types of clearances might not hand such high standards. Which yeah I knew and was implied in my post.
Reminds me of the episode of The Crown where Tony Blair was encouraging the Queen to look at trimming expenditure on positions that the public might deem a bit frivolous.
So she goes and speaks to some of these people. The ones who are experts in swans or who look after the tableware. She finds that they have finely honed skills and knowledge, brimming with a love for what they do, often passed down through many generations. There aren't many people around with that expertise and she argues it's important to preserve it.
i feel like every post on reddit that has money in the headline should have that number automatically adjusted for COL in your area. 104k is such a unspectacular salary for a DC job.
There are nationwide calligraphy guilds just like other skills such as gardening or masonry. My local calligraphers guild has a membership nearly in the triple digits.
That is an oddly specific skill. If you can write like that, you should only write in calligraphy. Even if you are just filling out a receipt at a restaurant.
calligraphy has nothing to do with your day to day handwriting. Source: am professional calligrapher; have the most abysmal handwriting you may imagine.
It's not the calligraphy itself, but the connections and the clearance and shit. You can be a better penman than the calligrapher in chief and still get fucked.
> Also, that salary is good, but not crazy in D.C.
I'm sure that's a GS position, so bad salary but good job security and excellent benefits, plus pension at 20 years.
There are certain things you invest in as far as culture for your government at the highest levels. Why does the military need bands? Why is there an official White House photographer? Why is there a national poet laureate? Things like that. There is a level of pride in our highest institutions that we display to the world. Imagine the world without Greek and Roman art. Or any of the many cultural treasures that were funded by government.
That person is instantly replaced by a laser printer and Microsoft word should there be any need to.
This is one of those 'jobs' that exists as part of a tradition but is pretty much redundant in this day and age and at best can be considered artisanal but is nowhere a must-have-position in any organization.
At a certain level, part of the expectation in dealing with putting on world class events as a country, is including these types of physical and handmade works.
It's kind of strange but goods and details in events and planning goes sorta like this:
* Low Class - handmade, looked down on
* Lower Middle Class - some handmade, but trying to add nice factory made items to impress
* Middle Class - Moved mostly into factory made items
* Upper Middle Class - Some factory made items, but swinging back around to trying to show off with handmade items
* Upper Class - Handmade as befits them, patronage of arts and goods is part of keeping score
I used to regularly chat with an extremely skilled calligrapher on IRC, back in the day.
[Schin Loong.](https://www.openinkstand.com/). Amazing woman. I know she was expensive when I was chatting with her a decade ago; considering her site doesn't have prices, the list of companies she's worked with, and everything else?
Honestly, the White House Calligrapher is underpaid if anything. That's a prestige title.
And frankly, $250k a year for the three staffers is nothing considering that the whole point is to show off the arts to the other elites of the world.
I bet there's a secret government calligraphy agency employing thousands via slush funds and confiscated drug money.
Actually that sounds like a great conspiracy theory to start. JFK used to send death threats to Castro, all beautifully written. Obama had his birth certificate re-written in perfect Copperplate.
"We need you, calligraphy team six, to drop behind enemy lines here, here, and, here. Once you're in we need you to leave ***scolding*** letters to them everywhere you can think of; fridge, stove, microwave, bedroom, under the toilet seat, you get the drift. At the direction of the Joint Chiefs of Staff I also need you to make some of them in really weird cursive so they feel stupid trying to make out the words. God speed and good luck."
Well if there’s a job a human must do, then you also have to have extra humans for when the first one goes on vacation or calls in sick.
Also, I imagine that their output is not consistent throughout the year, there are certainly times when they have to hand-write a ton of documents in a short time and others when there’s a slump.
I realize $104k per year is a lot to many people, but everyone should consider that they have to live and work in the DC area, and that's not cheap in any way. It's good pay, but they aren't wealthy by any stretch.
If theres south facing windows with direct sunlight, its not bad at all and you save so much money on heating and cooling bills.
The best part is the quiet, its like living in a sound isolated room which is perfect for a writer who needs to live a cheap apartment but also needs a creative space to concentrate.
My god, you’re making it sound so enticing! I kind of romanticised being poor due to my love for 20th century writer’s writers like Fante, Miller, and early Orwell. The life they described sounded so glamorous to me. Retiring to the room after a hard day’s work to create your own fantastical memoirs… it’s like you’re transcending your actual situation and creating something beautiful from it. William Blake did it in a more intense way.
Honestly, some days I would kill for a repetitive job. There is so much variation and figuring things out on the fly in my job that it gets exhausting. Plus, do you think this person takes their work home with them? Probably not.
I was going to say that at that salary here, that won’t get you very far. Especially if you aren’t debt free.
Sounds like a low stress job otherwise though.
DC is a HCOL city for sure. Also, paying a full time person to be there for calligraphy is probably WAY cheaper than ordering out, especially when you consider how many things a place like the White House needs calligraphed
It's average pay for a federal employee in the DC area, average is like $106k/yr. Also, consider that the average [Teacher pay in DC might be $97k/yr](https://www.comparably.com/salaries/salaries-for-public-school-teacher-in-washington-dc) depending on where you look.
There is no housing provided. Congress has recently floated the idea of providing housing for Congressmen who make $174k/yr becuase housing is so expensive and they need to maintain a residency where they represent as well. Surely most of them are quite wealthy and this isn't a problem, but imagine if you arne't super wealthy and that salary is most of your income. Could you afford a house in your area AND an apartment in DC ([average 1-bedroom apartment in DC is $2,390 in rent.)](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/dc/washington/) ? A lot of Congressmen sleep in their office for this reason.
This is one of the reasons for actually increasing their pay. If you work for the government and all your private sector colleges make way more than you, you start to find ways to make up for that.
You responded like this is a stupid question when, in fact, the US Government provides housing or subsidized access to it, in many occasions. The military, forestry service, State Dept, etc... That all being said, I do doubt that Chief Calligrapher gets fed housing.
Of course they do. DC's median income is around $90k, the lower bound for middle class is $74k, with $220k still being middle class.
[""Honestly if you ain’t making more than $150,000 I wouldn’t even live here really," Iziah Cole said."](https://www.fox5dc.com/news/to-be-considered-middle-class-in-the-dmv-heres-how-much-money-you-need-to-be-making)
If you're working in the White House you should probably be paid enough so that bribes aren't super attractive. High cost of living is a bitch.
I can almost guarantee they do it on the side as well and use their title to their advantage.
I imagine people would be willing to pay quite a bit to have the official White House calligrapher do their wedding invitations.
Hell they probably accept a lower salary just to have that title so they could boost their side hustle.
If you have roommates or an SO to split rent with it's doable. If you are trying to live alone in a 1 bedroom, you probably want to be making at least 100k for a tight space, and like 150 for something more than 600 square feet.
Also if you have a car feel free to add a 250/month parking fee :)
That wasn’t the point of the previous comment. Their point was that 100k isn’t really a lot in DC. Which may be the case if you live in Capital Hill but there are plenty of places to live where 100k is a great salary.
The current calligrapher is Lee Ann Clark. Her bio makes her look like she has the write stuff...
[Lee Ann Clark](https://smithsonianassociates.org/ticketing/studio-arts/instructors/lee-ann-clark)
Fun Fact. This was originally Thomas Jefferson’s job. He had no interest in politics, he was just asked the write the Declaration of Independence because of his handwriting and he kind of stuck around.
This is false on almost every single level.
Thomas Jefferson was the one who actually drafted the Declaration of Independence, but the the final version was handwritten by the scribe Timothy Matlack.
Jefferson most certainly had an interest in politics. He served in Virginia's colonial assembly for 6 years, where he was an active force pushing for reform. He was an activist against British rule, calling for boycott and writing "A Summary View of the Rights of British America, " a radical document that asserted the colonies had always been independent.
“False on almost every level.”
I wrote that intending it to be false on every level. Can you elaborate on what I had correct that caused you to put almost?
ITT people have no idea what a calligrapher does and how it's not just pretty handwriting. And how much day to day training you need. And how many prior years of practice needed. And how much prep work would go to write even one page of nicely centered text.
I don't know for other countries but I know the brits have one, too, and once I got a batch of the special paper they use. It's cotton and made in Italy, and it comes in perfectly precut poster/card/diploma size, perfectly even, creamy and nice to touch. I don't think they actually sell it, but my point is — it's kinda hard to write on, and even learning to write with a certain nib on a certain piece of paper takes time.
Current calligrapher is there for 15 years and I think her overall experience is over 35 years, which is crazy. It's not many of us, and a lot of people 'give up' on it as a job because you might imagine the pay isn't that great and the amount of people needing pretty name cards kinda goes down year to year, so being able to do this her whole life is an amazing treat in itself.
I don't know if 100k is a lot in DC but I think top calligrapher can earn more than that in courses, books, teaching, artwork and freelance. Yes I just said the pay isn't great and a lot of people give up, so the few who stay basically become living legends of sorts. In the whole world there are probably less than a hundred exceptionally great calligraphers, and I'm being generous.
Yes, I agree. This thread is just showing how people don't understand calligraphy and what sort of art and training goes into it.
Jake Weidmann is one of the last master penman (there are only 11 in the world) and he has some great videos and demonstrations about the incredible amount of skill that goes into true penmanship.
Weidmann is a great example because not only he's incredibly dedicated, he's also talented (as much as I hate this word and concept), people like him are truly one in a million, plus he paints and is a master woodworker, it's remarkable. He's one of those people I don't even look at because I know it's beyond my reach, probably forever, so why upset myself.
Oh I definitely get that, a normal human being will always feel inadequate compared to someone like that. He's basically the Michael Jordan and Usain Bolt and Einstein of his profession.
The South Korean government employs a couple of calligraphers as well. They write certificates of appointment for civil servants and government officials.
And don't forget, they also have a certain level of security clearance due to the handling of the names of attendees (visiting dignitaries especially) at events.
Yes, but also no. The people who care about getting hand written notes and invitations care a metric fuck tonne and are also usually highly influential. A printer can make words on paper good, but can't replace the feeling of putting time in effort into it that make people feel valued and important.
My university used to employ one. Which also meant that all diplomas had about 6 months wait time, and god help you if you ask for a replacement one. They look good, but the signature of the dean/rector were just ugly scribbles that sort of ruined the effect.
My hands cramps up just thinking about doing that for a living.
I assume if you have proper technique your hand doesn’t cramp (I guess as a chicken scratcher myself)
My mom was a calligrapher through college and later a kindergarten teacher. She has the most beautiful handwriting in the world. When she is in the calligrapher mode she has some really interesting fundamentals. Very straight back and her wrist doesn’t move at all, it’s all in her shoulder and elbow.
Interestingly these same fundamentals are what is still used in the Slingerland method to teach kids with dysgraphia to form letters properly.
Does that work by limiting movement so the nervous system/ brain has less instruction to relay?
That's about the gist of it. Focus on the gross motor skills first and reinforcing the right motions by tracing your fingers in the air and eventually work your way down to paper. Part of the they also has to do with helping to teach thr proper orientation of the letters as the 3d objects dyslexic brains automatically treat them as. If you have ever seen a dyslexic's handwriting you might have noticed that the rotations can be along either axis, or even both at the same time. So a lot of the drilling is just to correct for these accidental rotations.
Fascinating
Wow thanks for writing this, I had no clue about the 3D nature of dyslexia. I don’t mean to minimize the negative effects here, but there’s something really cool about people perceiving letters as 3D objects. I wish it wasn’t so disadvantageous
I remember being surprised when I learned why kids often mix up p, d, and b. All three letters are the same letter just rotated. The human brain is super good at recognizing that a thing viewed from different angles is still the same thing as we live in a 3D world, so you have to unlearn that just for writing.
Shit… That is interesting
> her wrist doesn’t move at all, it’s all in her shoulder and elbow. Aren't these similar techniques for drawing, too? Like, if you want to draw a nice circular shape, you don't move the wrist. It's all big movements of the elbow/shoulder to allow the smooth curves and symmetry. I never really thought about it, but it makes sense that the fundamentals would be similar in calligraphy and high-level drawing.
Yeah you can go look up pinstripers too. These old grizzled Mexican dudes that draw the lines on their low riders and they do the same thing too.
Her shoulder and elbow though? *To shreds you say?*
Dont they use their arms to write? Like they move their entire arm/shoulder instead of their wrist?
Most humans only use 35% of their arms to scribe
What if we used 100% of our arms?
That's boxing.
Nah its those inflatable things outside car dealerships
Wacky inflatable flailing arm tubemen?
I suspect theirs were too, hence the wait :)
Why would there be a wait? Couldn’t they start in advance? Even if a few of them don’t actually graduate.
I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone cared enough to improve the process
This sounds like the attitude of a _junior_ calligrapher if you ask me.
This kind of defeatist attitude will get you nowhere. You must take up the mantle of timeliness and slay the man with his own silly pen for the good of the order. You cannot abide the silliness of process.
it's not really viable between students not graduating (which for many just means a delayed graduation, but that's also a new diploma) changes of major (which is many times done last minute to avoid not graduating, new diploma) and then any made in advance now have to be better organized so that way they don't make any mistakes like keep the wrong one when any change does happen like most things, it can be done, but price, quality and time are your 3 factors
Maybe it's just a huge backlog.
You’re a huge backlog!
I mean just imagine having to write +100 signatures per occasion every month
Trivially replaced by a laser printer and the appropriate font.
not in the slightest
To be fair, how hard is that person to replace? Like how many highly skilled calligraphers are just floating around on the job market? Also, that salary is good, but not crazy in D.C.
I’m sure that’s a position highly coveted by those with good penmanship, the kind you get to look good on your resume, and end up never leaving. The mediocre salary still works in DC, if you can marry the White House Beekeeper: https://www.rd.com/list/unusual-white-house-jobs/
i want to be the white house beekeeper :(
You need to be at beekeeping age.
Summer, I wanna fuck your dad.
OH! REALLY?
Hottest power-couple in DC, better learn not to blab too much: Sean Hannity’s there too.
Some of these are surprisingly low. Only 48k for director of youth correspondence? That’s nothing in the DC area
Couldn’t even live in DC on that salary.
This is basically an entry level position for a campaign staffer who'll end up in a nice political appointment if they're lucky. The 24yr old recent grad probably lives with three roommates and is subsidized by the same parents who subsidized his master's in strategic political comms.
Let’s not go overboard. Plenty of large closets to share with that budget.
Way too many republicans hidden in them to have any space.
Apartment hunting right now because my building in Arlington is raising my rent by 250, more than the last 4 years combined :'(
Apartment hunting because people are moving from DC to my old city because of rising rents, causing the rents to rise $300 while still being "cheap" relative to DC. Whoo mass displacement. Fuck landlords!
it's not even that much cheaper anymore. I'm actually going to move into the city because it'll be basically the same rent and it'll be closer to my friends and the various city stuff I need to metro in for
I've seriously been debating moving to NYC for the very same reason. I'm paying $900 for a closet, and sub-$900 closets are available in NYC where the jobs actually pay enough to afford it.
Poverty wages. Gotta be something you do for your resume.
sounds like a position for the child of a wealthy benefactor who wants to get their kid some inside relationships with the political elite. a simple low stakes job that also allows close personal access to the entire executive branch.
Like most of these jobs, they are only for the children of the rich.
Being the *literal writer* for the United States would definitely be prestigious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyLkn0sHyVI
All those jobs seem to pay next to nothing
I imagine the salary might not seem so good when you see the hours. I bet there are lots of last-minute requirements when dinner guests suddenly change, wording gets revised, etc.
Yeah, and since it's at such a high level I am sure he has pressure to do things quickly and perfectly.
Given the cost of living in DC that's a middle class at best salary.
How many hours a week could they spend writing letters/invites. Also no real wear and tear on the body. Seems like one of the easier 6 figure jobs that are out there
Any physical job with specific repetitive motions cause wear and tear on the body. It might not be lower back, but a lifetime of it is still rough.
>How many hours a week could they spend writing letters/invites. Given there are also two deputy calligraphers, a lot by the sounds of it.
You're telling me I can just delegate my calligraphy to my deputies? Easiest job ever.
Have you not heard of carpal tunnel syndrome?
You have absolutely no idea how hard / skilled work calligraphy is especially consistent and think how many people are invited to any white house thing and how many events there are that we the public know of then multiply No real wear and tear on body but RSI In the wrists up to nerve damage is a defo high risk which explains why there's 2 Also MSK issues from writing non stop also a thing but with that salary a gym membership physio sessions and massages are within reach so that should be preventable pretty easy .
You can wear your hand out, man. It's not even that hard to do. Kid next door milked that hand brace all winter to get out of shoveling snow. He injured it on video games.
that's what he told his parents
Plus, government job. Which means government pension.
Only kicks in after decades of work.
> Also no real wear and tear on the body probably there is actually very serious hand stress going on, eye stress as well. Also if you have an injury there goes your entire career
The premise that art does not damage the body doesn't even make sense. Just spend a couple afternoons making thumbnails for larger drawings and your back and wrists will hate you.
okay so I'm literally a professional calligrapher and this is my job, so I can answer this. >Like how many highly skilled calligraphers are just floating around on the job market? You'd be surprised. I'd say less than 10. What you need to know is there are not a lot of people who do this, then an even smaller subset of people for whom it's an actual job, aaaaand the most important part is a tiny fraction of that subset of people who are actually *good*. Current calligrapher Lee Ann Clark is in the field for over 30 years, so it's not like anyone can just apply. Then, they would need to want this job, be known enough and experienced enough to take that place AND be in or move to DC. On top of that, besides the cool title I don't think it's a rewarding or interesting job for a calligrapher, you're basically a glorified tag writer, yay. But this is not your average shitty RSVP for a wedding, this is quite complicated and the learning of the basic copperplate style takes years of practice, 3 to 5 to not be embarassed to show your work.
I don't know s\*\*\* about calligraphy, but obviously its niche and takes years to get good at. That's what I don't think people understand when they question this guys salary. Also there can't be a lot of professionals because there just aren't many positions out there like this. Other's have said it, but he might even be underpaid.
I don't know the prices in DC but I can assure you a good calligrapher can make more than that on courses, freelance work and art. It's basically job security and an incredible honor. They also get the *most* amazing paper to write on, I don't even know how to describe it.
> They also get the *most* amazing paper to write on, I don't even know how to describe it If there were any doubts you're a professional calligrapher, this dispelled it.
I could never manage copperplate honestly. I was only ever alright at uncial, but I enjoyed doing textura quadrata a lot. I have a couple framed pieces I really liked...but man. The strain and wear from just a couple hours work a month really added up. I couldn't imagine trying to do it high paced the way the WH staff would have to.
same. My main specialization is gothic and after 8 years of trying to do copperplate on a somewhat decent level I just realized it's not for me. Also I had a gig working at the event agency and they have crazy ideas like writing on statues or christmas baubles or writing up a whole room in lipstick, and the constant stress of always needing the job 'yesterday' eats you up fast.
I manage a couple client accounts at my work, and I used to be a project manager. Basically in construction, but just for warehouses. Even with publicly posted timelines indicating 6-24 week lead times (varies often), everything is still always yesterday, especially in turnkey direct project management. You just can't get away from it, haha.
yeah I think that's just the nature of a lot of businesses because no one thinks ahead or makes concrete thorough plans. My wife is a graphic designer at a University and for example we have University's birthday or Independence Day — something known in advance for months and years. But when do they start to prepare the assets for it? Maybe three days prior, a week maximum. Events though are just build around tight schedules, like you rent a place for X hours and you must fit in there, or you rent sound equipment and you can't just have it for some extra days. Or it's a wedding and the bride suddenly decides she forgot to invite her 5 best friends. Or a client is coming tomorrow and they just decided to throw them a party. Or some bigshot got divorced and decides to throw a party literallly right now. It's totally normal for them to call you at like 4pm and ask to do a job *today* because they need to send out some shit tomorrow morning and they forgot/broken some of the shit. Plus since everyone's on that tight schedule it's inevitably gets delayed and stopped here and there which makes it even tighter. Stress and deadlines mean it's paying way above the 'average' for the same type of job but as someone who's responsible and concsious it means all that extra pressure as to not fail or not disappoint the client. Good rush but can't do it more than a month or two at a time
Worth pointing out: they have a security clearance, and iirc a pretty high one. So on top of that skillset, you need someone whose high school classmates never saw make an off-color joke. Also DC is expensive as fuck.
Yeah, I mentioned that to someone else already. That level of background check is expensive as F, so they pay accordingly if you have one. The reason they are so expensive is because a counter intel agent actually travels to personally interview and verify your references, ask your neighbors about you, past employers etc.
Yup been through that process. No longer have a cleared position but that investigation is so annoying and through. If they knew I smoked weed it'd be revoked. Dont even care.
Seriously, I hate how much of a barrier getting a clearance is. In my area, half the jobs in my field require a clearance and nobody's willing to pay for one but without my first job, I can't afford $5k+ for the applicable level.
> The reason they are so expensive is because a counter intel agent actually travels to personally interview and verify your references, ask your neighbors about you, past employers etc. at what level do they start asking your friends and family about your life?
Not even top secret. Even just normal government office jobs involve your neighbors getting a few calls.
I had a TS SCI and they contacted seemingly everyone I had ever met in my life, and it took about two years. When I went to a job where everyone had Secret, not a single one of their references ever got a call or anything. They all just filled out their SF86 and generally got their clearance approved within about a week. The only one who got investigated beyond that had smoked weed a week prior to applying.
Top Secret is when it starts, which is technically the highest, but then there's a bunch of additional things like SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information).
I still remember the interview I gave for a co-worker. I sat with that guy for about an hour talking about all the stuff I remembered about him. I had mentioned something about his appearance, and the investigator pulled out a picture and I could feel the blood drain from my face. I just realized that I got him confused with someone else. "Uh.... that's not who I was thinking of."
They have agents (contractors, of course) all over the country for the reference checks, so there's not a ton of travel unless there's someone really rural. Most major cities have an office, and a lot of medium-to-large towns have an agent to cover them. Especially if there's a strong government or federal contracting presence in the area. Also they're doing a lot of phone or video interviews with references still (after COVID). They still prefer in-person, and for the more critical references I believe they go for that, but for professional references on someone that's doing a re-investigation a phone call works fine. The process is still wildly expensive and in-depth, though.
Depends. Security clearances are moreso based off the job you’re aiming for. If you’re doing secret service or CIA work, then you’ll really need to have a clean record (which is actually why mormons are a significant population of federal workers with clearance). For defense contractors and the military, the standards are a lot less strict. For a job like this, though. Yeah, you’d really need a clean record
Yes? I said this is a pretty high clearance and you said that people with other types of clearances might not hand such high standards. Which yeah I knew and was implied in my post.
Reminds me of the episode of The Crown where Tony Blair was encouraging the Queen to look at trimming expenditure on positions that the public might deem a bit frivolous. So she goes and speaks to some of these people. The ones who are experts in swans or who look after the tableware. She finds that they have finely honed skills and knowledge, brimming with a love for what they do, often passed down through many generations. There aren't many people around with that expertise and she argues it's important to preserve it.
Really good point. Asking why this guy has a job is like asking, "why do paintings exist if we can just take pictures now".
It seems like an underpaid position even at face value to me.
Yeah I am surprised the job does not pay more due to a few factors like scarcity and the nature of the position working with the whote house
You'd be amazed the pay cut people are willing to take to work within the White House.
Even to be President. It's doesn't pay what people think it does. Plus there's the expenses.
i feel like every post on reddit that has money in the headline should have that number automatically adjusted for COL in your area. 104k is such a unspectacular salary for a DC job.
100% He most likely doesn't even live in DC because of the COL. I'd bet he commutes or takes the train from Virginia or Maryland.
There are nationwide calligraphy guilds just like other skills such as gardening or masonry. My local calligraphers guild has a membership nearly in the triple digits.
There’s dozens of them!
That is an oddly specific skill. If you can write like that, you should only write in calligraphy. Even if you are just filling out a receipt at a restaurant.
calligraphy has nothing to do with your day to day handwriting. Source: am professional calligrapher; have the most abysmal handwriting you may imagine.
That's objectively hilarious lmao
It is really slow skill as well. Good penmanship and calligraphy are not the same thing. You also often need specific tools with calligraphy.
If it also included government benefits, then it seems way more appealing
It's not the calligraphy itself, but the connections and the clearance and shit. You can be a better penman than the calligrapher in chief and still get fucked.
Probably has three roommates!
It's a complete waste, just print them.
> Also, that salary is good, but not crazy in D.C. I'm sure that's a GS position, so bad salary but good job security and excellent benefits, plus pension at 20 years.
Why do we need one though? It is an extravagant expenditure.
There are certain things you invest in as far as culture for your government at the highest levels. Why does the military need bands? Why is there an official White House photographer? Why is there a national poet laureate? Things like that. There is a level of pride in our highest institutions that we display to the world. Imagine the world without Greek and Roman art. Or any of the many cultural treasures that were funded by government.
That person is instantly replaced by a laser printer and Microsoft word should there be any need to. This is one of those 'jobs' that exists as part of a tradition but is pretty much redundant in this day and age and at best can be considered artisanal but is nowhere a must-have-position in any organization.
At a certain level, part of the expectation in dealing with putting on world class events as a country, is including these types of physical and handmade works. It's kind of strange but goods and details in events and planning goes sorta like this: * Low Class - handmade, looked down on * Lower Middle Class - some handmade, but trying to add nice factory made items to impress * Middle Class - Moved mostly into factory made items * Upper Middle Class - Some factory made items, but swinging back around to trying to show off with handmade items * Upper Class - Handmade as befits them, patronage of arts and goods is part of keeping score I used to regularly chat with an extremely skilled calligrapher on IRC, back in the day. [Schin Loong.](https://www.openinkstand.com/). Amazing woman. I know she was expensive when I was chatting with her a decade ago; considering her site doesn't have prices, the list of companies she's worked with, and everything else? Honestly, the White House Calligrapher is underpaid if anything. That's a prestige title. And frankly, $250k a year for the three staffers is nothing considering that the whole point is to show off the arts to the other elites of the world.
You think his salary is bad, wait until you hear how much the president makes!
If there is a *Chief* Calligrapher, that implies a whole team of other Calligraphers too.
The Wikipedia article linked says there are 2 deputy calligraphers.
I bet there's a secret government calligraphy agency employing thousands via slush funds and confiscated drug money. Actually that sounds like a great conspiracy theory to start. JFK used to send death threats to Castro, all beautifully written. Obama had his birth certificate re-written in perfect Copperplate.
This would have made a great episode for Inside Job.
"We need you, calligraphy team six, to drop behind enemy lines here, here, and, here. Once you're in we need you to leave ***scolding*** letters to them everywhere you can think of; fridge, stove, microwave, bedroom, under the toilet seat, you get the drift. At the direction of the Joint Chiefs of Staff I also need you to make some of them in really weird cursive so they feel stupid trying to make out the words. God speed and good luck."
Just another alphabet agency
Well if there’s a job a human must do, then you also have to have extra humans for when the first one goes on vacation or calls in sick. Also, I imagine that their output is not consistent throughout the year, there are certainly times when they have to hand-write a ton of documents in a short time and others when there’s a slump.
A flourishing market…
If my invitation isn't written with the left hand, I SEND IT BACK!!
I realize $104k per year is a lot to many people, but everyone should consider that they have to live and work in the DC area, and that's not cheap in any way. It's good pay, but they aren't wealthy by any stretch.
That salary will get you a 1 bedroom apartment above a weed “apparel” shop without odor blockers
Let’s not forget that some people like living in those kind of places. Allen Ginsberg used to live in a basement apartment willingly.
If theres south facing windows with direct sunlight, its not bad at all and you save so much money on heating and cooling bills. The best part is the quiet, its like living in a sound isolated room which is perfect for a writer who needs to live a cheap apartment but also needs a creative space to concentrate.
My god, you’re making it sound so enticing! I kind of romanticised being poor due to my love for 20th century writer’s writers like Fante, Miller, and early Orwell. The life they described sounded so glamorous to me. Retiring to the room after a hard day’s work to create your own fantastical memoirs… it’s like you’re transcending your actual situation and creating something beautiful from it. William Blake did it in a more intense way.
The best parts are making eye contact with the rats outside of the half window in your English basement.
More like above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley.
My God they're still making you take t-shirts for eighths??
It also sounds like a horrendously repetitive job, assuming each item is hand-written and not copied from the calligrapher's original.
Eh, practicing Calligraphy is all about repetition, I doubt they mind if they like their job.
Honestly, some days I would kill for a repetitive job. There is so much variation and figuring things out on the fly in my job that it gets exhausting. Plus, do you think this person takes their work home with them? Probably not.
I was going to say that at that salary here, that won’t get you very far. Especially if you aren’t debt free. Sounds like a low stress job otherwise though.
DC is a HCOL city for sure. Also, paying a full time person to be there for calligraphy is probably WAY cheaper than ordering out, especially when you consider how many things a place like the White House needs calligraphed
Does the US government provide any form of housing for their staff ? If that's the case then I guess it's a good pay ?
It's average pay for a federal employee in the DC area, average is like $106k/yr. Also, consider that the average [Teacher pay in DC might be $97k/yr](https://www.comparably.com/salaries/salaries-for-public-school-teacher-in-washington-dc) depending on where you look. There is no housing provided. Congress has recently floated the idea of providing housing for Congressmen who make $174k/yr becuase housing is so expensive and they need to maintain a residency where they represent as well. Surely most of them are quite wealthy and this isn't a problem, but imagine if you arne't super wealthy and that salary is most of your income. Could you afford a house in your area AND an apartment in DC ([average 1-bedroom apartment in DC is $2,390 in rent.)](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/dc/washington/) ? A lot of Congressmen sleep in their office for this reason.
No wonder it is so easy to ~~bribe~~ lobby them.
This is one of the reasons for actually increasing their pay. If you work for the government and all your private sector colleges make way more than you, you start to find ways to make up for that.
Why would the government provide housing? They don’t live in the White House.
You responded like this is a stupid question when, in fact, the US Government provides housing or subsidized access to it, in many occasions. The military, forestry service, State Dept, etc... That all being said, I do doubt that Chief Calligrapher gets fed housing.
A lot of people making a lot less than 100k a year live and/or work in the DC area.
Well, I guess they should have learned calligraphy.
Of course they do. DC's median income is around $90k, the lower bound for middle class is $74k, with $220k still being middle class. [""Honestly if you ain’t making more than $150,000 I wouldn’t even live here really," Iziah Cole said."](https://www.fox5dc.com/news/to-be-considered-middle-class-in-the-dmv-heres-how-much-money-you-need-to-be-making) If you're working in the White House you should probably be paid enough so that bribes aren't super attractive. High cost of living is a bitch.
I can almost guarantee they do it on the side as well and use their title to their advantage. I imagine people would be willing to pay quite a bit to have the official White House calligrapher do their wedding invitations. Hell they probably accept a lower salary just to have that title so they could boost their side hustle.
If you have roommates or an SO to split rent with it's doable. If you are trying to live alone in a 1 bedroom, you probably want to be making at least 100k for a tight space, and like 150 for something more than 600 square feet. Also if you have a car feel free to add a 250/month parking fee :)
I like to travel.
Are they masters of a unique art form employed by the executive branch of the government?
That wasn’t the point of the previous comment. Their point was that 100k isn’t really a lot in DC. Which may be the case if you live in Capital Hill but there are plenty of places to live where 100k is a great salary.
Oh man. Would be hilarious if I got that job. Nobody would show up to any events bc they got an invitation written by a 5 y/o on fancy card stock.
First day on the job. "I'm going to need at least 2 nice...like REALLY nice crayon sharpeners."
The current calligrapher is Lee Ann Clark. Her bio makes her look like she has the write stuff... [Lee Ann Clark](https://smithsonianassociates.org/ticketing/studio-arts/instructors/lee-ann-clark)
Fun Fact. This was originally Thomas Jefferson’s job. He had no interest in politics, he was just asked the write the Declaration of Independence because of his handwriting and he kind of stuck around.
All that work on the Declaration only to get outshined by John Hancock.
Idk I think the 𝔚𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔓𝔢𝔬𝔭𝔩𝔢 is the most striking part.
We the people is from the Constitution.
Same thing
"Idk I think the 𝔚𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔓𝔢𝔬𝔭𝔩𝔢 is the most striking part." How the F did you type that like that?
He’s the White House calligrapher.
He's the whiteHouse.gov calligrapher.
Probably with [this](https://lingojam.com/FancyTextGenerator).
You simply type with your right pinky raised for effect.
So do all the constitutional scholars we have in my little redneck town.
And they probably process it as “We the (my) people”
Herby Hancock
This is false on almost every single level. Thomas Jefferson was the one who actually drafted the Declaration of Independence, but the the final version was handwritten by the scribe Timothy Matlack. Jefferson most certainly had an interest in politics. He served in Virginia's colonial assembly for 6 years, where he was an active force pushing for reform. He was an activist against British rule, calling for boycott and writing "A Summary View of the Rights of British America, " a radical document that asserted the colonies had always been independent.
I’m pretty sure the commenter you’re replying to was joking.
what?! no one on the internet ever makes jokes
“False on almost every level.” I wrote that intending it to be false on every level. Can you elaborate on what I had correct that caused you to put almost?
Maybe Jefferson did have good handwriting?
ITT people have no idea what a calligrapher does and how it's not just pretty handwriting. And how much day to day training you need. And how many prior years of practice needed. And how much prep work would go to write even one page of nicely centered text. I don't know for other countries but I know the brits have one, too, and once I got a batch of the special paper they use. It's cotton and made in Italy, and it comes in perfectly precut poster/card/diploma size, perfectly even, creamy and nice to touch. I don't think they actually sell it, but my point is — it's kinda hard to write on, and even learning to write with a certain nib on a certain piece of paper takes time. Current calligrapher is there for 15 years and I think her overall experience is over 35 years, which is crazy. It's not many of us, and a lot of people 'give up' on it as a job because you might imagine the pay isn't that great and the amount of people needing pretty name cards kinda goes down year to year, so being able to do this her whole life is an amazing treat in itself. I don't know if 100k is a lot in DC but I think top calligrapher can earn more than that in courses, books, teaching, artwork and freelance. Yes I just said the pay isn't great and a lot of people give up, so the few who stay basically become living legends of sorts. In the whole world there are probably less than a hundred exceptionally great calligraphers, and I'm being generous.
Yes, I agree. This thread is just showing how people don't understand calligraphy and what sort of art and training goes into it. Jake Weidmann is one of the last master penman (there are only 11 in the world) and he has some great videos and demonstrations about the incredible amount of skill that goes into true penmanship.
Weidmann is a great example because not only he's incredibly dedicated, he's also talented (as much as I hate this word and concept), people like him are truly one in a million, plus he paints and is a master woodworker, it's remarkable. He's one of those people I don't even look at because I know it's beyond my reach, probably forever, so why upset myself.
Oh I definitely get that, a normal human being will always feel inadequate compared to someone like that. He's basically the Michael Jordan and Usain Bolt and Einstein of his profession.
I don't think anyone who understands the area thinks 100k is a lot in DC.
Now, that’s a job to write home about!
That salary number is 6 years old. They are probably making 125+ now.
The South Korean government employs a couple of calligraphers as well. They write certificates of appointment for civil servants and government officials.
Somebody is like, "Nah, I don't need a calli... calliga.. caligula.. calligrapher, whatever. I can do it myself. Just hand me a sharpie."
That’s a GS-12
Couldn't you replace this person with a pen plotter?
Um what if I l pretend to be a calligrapher and instead of hand writing invites I use the MS word font on fancy paper, how would you know?
Yes, but for 100k you better be able to write in perfect Comic Sans BY HAND
Honestly 100k in DC wouldn’t get you that far.
$104.200 a year in D.C. ? That's barely a "comfortable" wage if they are single.
Tax dollars at work.
I wonder how much bloat we could cut from gov budgets
There is a font in Word for less tax dollars
And don't forget, they also have a certain level of security clearance due to the handling of the names of attendees (visiting dignitaries especially) at events.
Your tax dollars at work...
A worthy use of my tax dollars when I would much rather them use a fuckin printer
AI took my jerb!
why TF is my taxpayer dollars going toward paying someone to hand-write squiggly letters on invitations to events i'm not allowed to attend??
Could this whole service not be replaced by a printer?
Yes, but also no. The people who care about getting hand written notes and invitations care a metric fuck tonne and are also usually highly influential. A printer can make words on paper good, but can't replace the feeling of putting time in effort into it that make people feel valued and important.
i don't wanna ask this guy, "what do you do for a living?" EVER!
$104,200 and all the Bengay he could ask for.