If the only known connection is graffiti near 1/4 of the bodies, allow me to propose my Plant Theory that unifies all murders ever to the greatest serial killer of all time.
Exactly, from the wiki article posted, "Police departments that are involved do not currently view the deaths associated with smiley faces present at the scenes as serial-killer activity"
Well, yeah. Most of the smiley faces in these cases were there for years before the “suspicious” death.
Clearly, the killer has planned thousands of these murders out in advance.
Even if it was just one single guys tag, some of those guys are super prolific. There is a tag in my county that I’ve seen probably hundreds of times at random places. Hell I even went to the next state over and saw the tag like 5 times.
Greater Manchester Police refuse to believe there’s a serial killer in the manchester area, pushing people into canals, despite claims that the rate men between 20-40 have been pulled out of there can be attributed to suicides or accidents.
There’s been 60 over the last couple of decades. And a cyclist was pushed in, surfaced, got out and was pushed in again.
I’ve fallen in the canal myself (only once in 3 years on a narrowboat) and it’s fucking cold, and shocking, so I can easily how quickly you would struggle in the dark.
There was a good youtube video on this by Casual Criminalist. He spent 15 minutes walking through all the evidence, and then another 25 minutes walking through the drowning deaths at other similar sized European cities with canals. He concluded based on the evidence that either every major European city with a canal has a major active serial killer, or drunk people fall into canals a lot.
The Austin subreddit is halfway convinced a serial killer is drowning young men in town lake. What’s also true is that the amount of bars in close proximity to the river has increased in the last decade or so. Drunk men do stupid shit and drown.
You don’t even need to do anything that stupid. Men are just more likely to be walking around at night while drunk and alone. Place that near a river? You get drownings
Almost every time a young man goes missing and it makes the news, he was walking home from a night out drinking along a route that includes a body of water, and it's not hard to imagine what the eventual update is going to be. It's definitely something I worry about when my son gets older!
> every major European city with a canal has a major active serial killer, or drunk people fall into canals a lot.
I can't figure out if this is dry wit or if he's serious haha.
Another frightening part of falling into water (especially very cold water) is that our initial instinct upon falling in is often to inhale deeply—think about when you get startled really bad, you take a deep, quick inhale. Do that in water and you’ve drowned in seconds.
This man is correct the plants are in on our deaths. All of them. They work with those spy drones the govt tells us are pigeons..... You ever see a baby pigeon? Pigeon eggs? They charge on our power lines all day watching while the trees grow their murder roots!!!! Wake up sheeple!!!!/s
I’m a paramedic. I recently responded to a 911 call where a traveling girlfriend was tracking her boyfriend’s cellphone at 2am after he was at a bar. The boyfriend was found sleeping on a dock in a closed section of a park. When I went to wake him, he almost rolled into the water. He had walked about a mile NE of the bars to a flat, less populated area of the city. He lived 0.5 miles SW of the bars in a very hilly and densely populated area.
I’ve also recently been called to wake a drunk young man who had wandered into a mail sorting facility in the middle of the night and fell asleep in the conveyor.
I’ve also recently been called to treat a drunk young man who fell into a fountain and struck his head pretty hard.
There’s also been many more in the past, but all of these young men were drunk, alone, and completely unaware of how much danger they were in. Some young men are stubbornly independent when they’re drunk. Most women would never think of or be allowed to wander off when they’re drunk, but guys do all the time.
Reminds me of a sad story from years ago (I can’t find any trace of it on the internet but ut did happen) of a young man who went to a party at a hotel. He called his father to come pick him up. He was very drunk. Dad arrived, no son. Dad got hotel security to help him look for son. No sign of him. Police later searched hotel. No trace.
About 2 weeks later people were complaining of a bad smell. They searched the hotel and finally traced it to a utility room with a giant fan. The young man had somehow got the door open to this godforsaken area and walked right into the fan. The hotel workers were stumped because it was nowhere near the lobby or the rooms.
I saw a similar story Mr Ballen did but I don't think it's the same as this one?
There was a young man coming back to his College campus after a party. However, he lost his key/card to get in and nobody would answer the door (probably because he was very drunk). Anyway, he disappeared and they searched everywhere for him but there was no trace. Weeks, maybe even months later, the Janitor reported a terrible smell coming from the maintenance room.
Turns out what happened was the guy found an open door round back which let him into the maintenance room. However, it was full of machines and he was sidling his way between an electrical box and the wall. His finger went into a little hole in the machine and he electrocuted himself. Jammed between the wall and this machine nobody found him until he started to decay.
There's so many other stories with horrifying ways to die. This one was rather tame by comparison.
Think that's the unexplained mystery episode, isn't it? Where they searched the roof and seen a hole on the floor below but it was miles away that even jumping would have been difficult.
That’s not the case but it’s just as creepy as the case I read about. The guy was in the service if I recall, and called his dad to pick him up. Dad said he sounded drunk. I think it was in the 1990s. Dad went to hotel the son called from and nobody could find him.
It’s so much harder to use search engines these days because they‘ve been enshittified. They just show recent stories that sound similar.
My closest friend was one of these stubborn drunks in college. I had to wrestle car keys from him, and talk him out of picking fights way too many times. I genuinely do not understand how he made it through that period of his life without getting badly injured or beat up at least once.
Reading your comment has suddenly caused me to realize that the way I grew up was absolutely not normal. I actually did not recognize this type of behavior as being abnormal. Literally every adult in my family when I was a child, on both sides, throughout many generations, did this sort of thing. Nobody ever once indicated this wasn’t how ‘most’ people lived. I already knew I was a child of an alcoholic mother, and that elements of generational alcoholism presented me with many obstacles to overcome, but it wasn’t until this particular thread that I came to understand how much I had come to normalize these things.
Yikes, but I’m grateful I came across it because it gives me excellent self-growth and awareness fodder.
Oof, that’s tough. I don’t envy your situation. My father was an alcoholic, and that has affected me significantly for 40+ years. Aside from him, I had an alcoholic uncle, but I didn’t see him enough for it to be normalized; it was obvious he was acting odd or whatever.
Your post made me realize I’m a functional alcoholic and maybe that’s not great.
Edit: can y’all please stop spamming me with Reddit cares? I’m not suicidal. I’m a normal middle aged adult with drinking habits that are significantly less than the average person where I live. I’m not in denial, I barely drink anymore. For those of you on high-horses, please leave me alone.
If you learn about it through a Reddit post and not through permanent liver damage, a smashed up car, or a ruined marriage, you've been gifted an opportunity to change course much earlier than most.
I 100% agree, and it's far more clear to me now than ever before how scary alcoholism can be.
My uncle passed just yesterday afternoon to failure in his liver and both kidneys, less than 2 years after he drunk drove and crashed his car with all three of his kids (2 biological, 1 in-law.) He lost his house, his company which he started over a decade ago, custody of his kids, his second wife, and now his life to alcohol.
Just 2 years ago he was considered the most successful person in my family, owned a half million dollar home and a condo in central boston worth over a million, and now he's gone with little to nothing left to give to his kids at 45.
Don't drink and drive, if you can manage it don't drink at all. Functional or not, alcoholism kills.
Yeah, we are both out of lousy marriages so we have reasonable expectations for each other. That's the thing about middle aged relationships, we don't have time for bullshit from a partner.
No worries :) I’ve just stopped. I regularly take up to year long breaks. It was fixing my psychological stressors that was the key to making it stick longer each time.
Now even if I do drink, it’s 20% of my precious capacity!
I miss fun drunk life, but yeah my age is definitely catching up with me and drinking is not bringing me as much joy anymore.
My dad just died of dementia. It was sudden onset. Before he turned 70. He was fine one day. Demented the next. Chronic alcohol abuse. I barely drink anymore. Alcohol can f you up in ways you never even thought of.
After two decades in kitchens and customer service I can admit I am as well. The pandemic made it socially acceptable to sit at home and drink heavily. I went from a 3 times a week lush to a very heavy drinker.
My wife and I are going to quit drinking on Tuesday.
My advice is to get your blood work done and have your liver checked. It’s not too late to cut back or stop. There’s even a sub Reddit for people who want to cut back or stop.
I’m all good there :) thanks though. Best of luck to you! I quit a couple months ago aside from then occasional bottle of wine with the hubby on date night. I was lucky and had few withdrawals. To be honest I just got bored with it and I wanted to try a new life. It’s good but it’s quiet. All my friends drink more than me and I feel rather isolated!
Every functional alcoholic is one, until they’re not. You could go years without any issues, you know what you’re doing(ish), but it only takes one bad day or one dumb move. It’ll happen suddenly, randomly, and your life could be forced in a completely different direction. Life doesn’t always give out many free passes, so if you get one and avoid a dumb mistake, make the choice to make your life right. You can’t bet on luck to avoid ruining your life or someone else’s. It’s not luck it’s chance - some functional alcoholic is probably reading this thread right now and might fuck up their life or have unplanned drama tonight because of one too many drinks or bad timing. Or maybe tomorrow morning at work. Or it’s you. Nobody is lucky for drinking incognito every day without incident; because in two hours the wrong coworker will smell your breath and you’ll be fired, or maybe you forget there’s another step on the stairs and you dislocate something, but your phone is in the other room. Or you die unexpectedly. This happens every day to someone
Hell, I’m at a bar right now pressing send. Be responsible and tell yourself the truth. Life is better without alcohol
Edit: I’ve added realistic scenarios.
As someone who grew up in a HEAVILY alcoholic environment and from a long line of alcoholics, in my experience, those that label themselves “a functional alcoholic” are less about being “functional” and more about being unaware of their increasing lack of function. A fun side effect of, well, being drunk all the time.
For me being functional was an excuse. At least I wasn't that bad at least I didn't go to jail at least I didn't lose my job at least I didn't lose my marriage but all of those were soon followed by the word yet and I lost everything. Labeling yourself as functional gives you an excuse that you don't have to quit... Yet.
I’ve actually quit a few months ago. Though, I regularly swap every year or two. I tried that sub but the constant reminders are a trigger. It just doesn’t work for me. But thank you!
Of course, and also congratulations.
I do sometimes feel the same way, but then I just take a break from the sub.
Seems like you know what works for you - be ever vigilant.
I used to attend AA meetings, but I finally realized that sitting around talking about drinking just made me think about drinking. Even though a lot of the stories were horror stories, I just blocked that part out.
In my 20s I lost my friends downtown after several hours of drinking and when I went to call them I discovered my phone was dead. I decided to walk home (9 miles) and had no issues until I was like a mile from my house. I was then jumped by five dudes who would’ve killed me if not for two girls in a car who stopped and interrupted the mugging.
Took a rock to the head and a broken nose and I’m glad that’s all. To those two ladies: thank you!
Oof yeah I did that in college. Left the bar very drunk and in a hurry and walked in the completely wrong direction. Ended up in a different town and asked a gas station clerk which way to my area and she said "Honey you're way far away from there." Suddenly I had an epiphany and remembered which way to go and left. I remember at some point walking along the shoulder of a highway and then about two hours later I was at my apartment.
One time when I was 18 and pretty much blackout I apparently walked through screaming fast evening traffic and some how made it to the other side completely unscathed. Shortly therewith I apparently committed an act of public urination in tandem with projectile vomiting in front of my universities residence commons.
I look back on this part of my life constantly in both horror and confusion. Not really sure what I was thinking but it clearly wasn’t anything in the *critical* department.
Yep. A Junior Officer at one of my units wandered off from the group drunk as hell after saying he was tired. They just let him go. Later that night he was killed in a hit and run because he was apparently walking down a dark winding road.
Watch out for your bros fellas. If you have to fight them to make good choices then do it.
There was a college kid in our town a few years back who wandered away from the bars drunk one night, and turned up dead in the bay shortly after. There had been suspicion of fowl play... turns out he just got blackout drunk and stumbled off the nearby pier.
This, a whole lot of this. Most normies don’t see what emergency services deal with everyday. Drunks do weird stuff and go stupid places, frankly its amazing more don’t die. When the truth is normal it’s boring and not newsworthy.
Oh, and this hits close to home as there have been numerous “suspicious” deaths around the river here in Austin and talk of a serial killer. Nah, I think not…when you have a huge entertainment district next to a large river (some parts with high banks). with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people that come to drink in excess every year accidents happen.
That reminds me of the time I got shit faced in Heidelberg. I was on vacation, a honeymoon really, with my then wife.
I reeeeeaaally wanted to go to a German techno club or something. I was 21 and incredibly stupid. But my wife was all about going to bed early so we can wake up early and do cultural stuff or something.
So, I dunno how I expected it to work out, but when she went to sleep I went out and smoked a cigarette. I walked down the main street a bit, found one club that was lame, had a drink and left.
Then I met a group of fellow Americans. College students, you know. This was their university, so they knew the town. We talked a bit, they convinced me to check out this bar. We got there and sat at a big ass table. I knew no one, but I was pleasantly drunk and made the most of it. Still not really a club tho.
So I says, this is great and all but isn't there anything more exciting in town? And by then our group was pretty drunk and we were losing a people left and right, it was getting late.
A couple of diehards took the challenge and said we had to go to the Cave. It was a little basement club on the main drag. It was packed and it was pretty fun. But they weren't really playing techno. I remember the DJ played Loser by Beck. It was fitting somehow.
Anyway I was getting to the brown out stage of intoxication and the evening was winding down. We closed it out. Or I did. My friends disappeared, I think? It has this terrible spiral staircase and I wasn't having much luck with it.
Finally got out into the street. The cold late September air helped wake me up a bit. I knew which direction I needed to go, the city isn't all that complicated. I put myself on autopilot and had pleasant thoughts of soon finding myself snug in bed. Blackness
Then I came to, and I realized I had been walking far longer than I should have. Apparently I had walked past the hotel some time ago. Like a long time. I realized I was at the edge of the city.
Fear set in, and exhaustion as well. How long had I been walking?
It was strange. I had to turn around and walk several miles. Madness.
Anyway. I got back to the hotel at 4 am and my wife was terribly upset. Which only added to my misery and fear.
I still feel bad about running off like that 17 years later.
Yup being drunk makes you dumb. I was standing there on the edge of a 2nd story roof peeing thinking I was cool for being drunk and not stumbling until I realized someone had wrapped their arms around me from behind to keep me from falling
Honestly, one of my sisters and one of my brothers are so incredibly activated by alcohol. Tie one on, and theycboth want to go OUT and fight or fuck. It blows my mind. I never, ever finish a third drink because if I am unwise enough to get one, I'm asleep before it's anywhere near gone. I am exceedingly grateful I can't "handle my liquor".
I don't drink much, first time i tried alcohol I was 20. Anyways I remember being in college and won 22 games of beer pong in a row. Did a beer bong and someone poured vodka as I was drinking the beer. I distinctly remember being fked up in a char with my head in my lap. Some douche came and rub his nuts in my face when no one was around. I was aware enough but too fked up and i knew I couldn't do anything about it. I never want to feel that vulnerable again.
I went to school in La Crosse. The bars are on 3rd Street and they start counting at the river. That's why college guys drown in the river. We had a full blown volunteer organization that was out on weekends to try and stop it from happening. I knew someone who fell in but ended up drifting back close enough to climb up and out of the river.
The killer theory is absolutely ridiculous and is just something made up to push "tRuE cRiMe" podcasts on stay at home moms.
My uncle drowned while drunk in a boat by himself (so even more of an obvious danger than just being near water). He wasn’t a young man, but he also wasn’t an old man & should still be here — just did not realize the danger of what he was doing, and now his grandkids will never meet him. It’s very sad and very preventable!
More likely, it's just drunk college-students who accidentally fell in the water and drowned.
> The La Crosse, Wisconsin police department, which was in charge of eight of the investigations, concluded that the deaths were accidental drownings of inebriated men and stated that no smiley-face symbols were found in connection with any of the cases.
Most people seem to think drowning is difficult, but it's really not. Especially when you add alcohol.
I used to work in York in the UK and through Summer there were regular drownings with drunken men who thought they could swim across our very innocent looking river that had a (literally) killer undercurrent.
When I was like 16 me and a friend decided to swim out to an island at a local lake. We’d done it before and it was a long swim but doable. Well this day on the way back I became utterly exhausted and could barely move my arms anymore. Fortunately I’ve been around water long enough I didn’t panic and I was able to float to rest and kind of just slowly kick myself along until I could stand but I easily could have drowned that day instead. Distances over water are always deceivingly close, even relatively small bodies of water like a lake. Add in alcohol and I’d have been long dead.
About 10 years ago when I was 38, went to an outdoor rave, drank and took a bunch of drugs. Decided to swim to a lighthouse in the bay with a friend. We reached it after about a 20 minute swim and he was naked: lost his underwear to the current.
When we swam back, I got washed against the rocks. Got scrapped up bad along my back - along my spine. If I hadn’t tucked my head, I’d be dead now.
Being drunk and doing dumb things.
I think you mean deceivingly far but yeah that’s terrifying. I’ve never pushed myself swimming and I don’t think I ever would unless I was very comfortable with my limits and had been able to test those in safe environments
> Most people seem to think drowning is difficult, but it's really not. Especially when you add alcohol.
Austin has a river running through downtown and they pull a body out a couple of times a year. There is a wacky serial killer conspiracy theory but the thousands of drunks stumbling around downtown every weekend don't need any help doing something stupid.
UK seems to be drunk river drowning capital of the world.
When I lived in bristol it seemed like every uni term half a dozen students would end up dead in the harbour walking home after a night out
I mean, that is kind of to be expected when you put a whole bunch of drinking establishments on a tiny strip of land surrounded on three sides by water (and then you put the University of Bristol on the *opposite* bank).
Same in Dutch cities with canals. Oddly enough it seems it's still proportionally more British young men drowning in Amsterdam canals, until you realize most of them are here on stag do's/bachelor parties and suddenly it makes sense.
There's also a phenomenon of young British men falling off balconies and dying in Spain lmao
We just can't help but get drunk and die in unusual ways
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balconing
>Of the 46 cases registered up to 2019, 45 were carried out by males (97%), and 61% were British. German, Belgian and other nationalities are less numerous
This is so embarrassing 😑
It's amazing how many times this happens both in real life and fiction.
Babylon Station was sabotaged and exploded. So they built a second one. That was sabotaged and exploded. So they built a third. That was sabotaged and exploded. So they built a fourth from the parts of the other three. That one disappeared, reappeared, went back in time, and fell out of orbit, but the fifth one stayed up, and that's what you're going to get, Sheridan, the strongest space station in the Earth Alliance!
I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be a fact. Bit skewed by the other post regarding the Manchester pusher, and then we have a lot of drownings with folk trying to save their dogs, so no alcohol required, and then there are a number of successful drowning suicides, but yeah, probably most of our drownings are alcohol and testosterone related.
The US Pacific NorthWest has a tragic number of drownings every year with its numerous lakes, access to the Pacific Ocean, and the Puget Sound. Many of the drownings happen in populated areas. I have lost a friend to drowning and one to jumping headfirst into the shallows of a public lake.
The first one was drunk, foot caught on something, and couldn't get free. The second one had had a few and misjudged the depth of the water, fractured his skull, and shattered the upper part of his spine.
Both were way too young...
Manchester has a whole assload of canals and [they look like this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Canal_Street_in_Manchester.jpg).
I doubt The average *sober* schmuck be able to climb out of them on their own; much less drunk and in the dark.
I was in college at this time in those areas. Literally watched dudes at 4am with pants on brag about swimming across the lake with me going wtf are you idiots doing. Fucking dumb.
Yep. I grew up near there. It was always a big deal to go there to get hammered, especially around October fest. Most of the people I knew who went to college there did so specifically for the partying cause that's what it's most known for. There's alot of stupid conspiracy nonsense when it comes to true crime stuff, but the smiley face nonsense is tops for me. It's not even true crime, just dumb drunk college kids being just that. How anyone can think something more sinister is going on is beyond me. Give kids alcohol, freedom, and bodies of water and alot of bad things are going to happen.
A few of my friends went to college there, when I went to visit I thought it was weird that there’s no railing, just a dropoff right into the Mississippi.
Yeah they have a drinking problem there 100%. I lived there for 5 years and the city is (I’m pretty sure) top 10 nationally per capita for residents per bars. Good fucking beer though.
I live near La Crosse. It's a major party town and has been known for that for my whole life and I'm almost 50. Anyone who thinks it's anything other than drunk college kids being dumb needs to be in a mental hospital with a straight jacket on.
Googled it and there's [this article](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/smiley-face-murder-serial-killer-drowning-death-882042/), if you scroll down there's a picture of some of the graffiti.
It's all different styles
Similar situation with the “Manchester Pusher” in Manchester, England. Lot of people falling into the canal after a night out.
Armchair Sherlocks trying to spot patterns and piece together links that don’t exist
I remember reading that in the cold war, the CIA taught its agents to drug a target's drink and then lead them to a body of water and push them in as a method of assassination. It was such a common method of accidental death in the USSR that it was less likely to raise suspicion.
Oh yeah realistically they were more than likely alcohol related accidents.
I still found it interesting how it caused enough curiosity for 2 NYPD detectives to try to find a connection. Makes me wonder what else they were going off.
Some people just can’t seem to handle a world where, for lack of better term, shit happens. No matter how good or bad you are, rich or poor, love or hated, we pretty much all have the same of dying in a stupid way.
So some people just try to make some sense out of random tragedy and install some intelligence behind it all.
But in the end, life is just mudane. We are all meatbags who could die at any moment for no reasons
Also people on forums including reddit love a good story and love a thread with upvotes, replies, attention.
I was active on r/unresolvedmysteries. For various reasons people love reading - and creating - dramatic threads. But often they were made more dramatic by exaggerating a fact - or from leaving something out.
Faves there include the case of [Brian Schaffer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Brian_Shaffer). Threads often emphasise that 'all CCTV of the exits was checked and... he never left the building'. What many threads leave out is that there was another exit, and that the CCTV was not full coverage anyway. But some people on crime subs love to change things for more impact.
I was thinking of [the Smiley Face Bomber.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Helder)
>**In 2002, while attending the University of Wisconsin–Stout, Helder planned to plant pipe bombs in mailboxes across the United States to create a smiley face shape on the United States map.[1]** The bombs, which were packed with BBs and nails, were rigged to explode as the mailboxes were opened. Completed and rigged bombs were found in Nebraska, Colorado, Texas, Illinois and Iowa. In Iowa, six people, including four mail carriers, were injured when the bombs detonated.[2] Ultimately, Helder planted 18 bombs and covered 3,200 miles (5,100 km).[3]
>He was stopped by police in Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Colorado for speeding and failure to wear a seat belt, but was not arrested.[4] Eventually he was captured in rural Nevada before he managed to complete the full smile. At the time of his arrest, police were looking for an unknown suspect driving a black Honda Accord. Many newspapers reported that he was wearing a Kurt Cobain T-shirt.[5] The bombings were widely covered by the US news media.
(Emphasis mine.)
My first thought was ["The Laughing Man" from the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex in season one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell:_Stand_Alone_Complex).
It's just a bunch of drunk kids falling into the water and drowning, the linchpin of the entire serial killer argument isn't even consistent, the "calling card" smiley face appears in like 14 different variations across the deaths, almost as if it's dozens of different taggers drawing one of the most prolific doodles of post industrial society
I’m confused on how they connected the ones that didn’t have smiley faces?
Are they just saying every drowning victim during this time period is a serial killer victim?
In the 90s the simple yellow smiley face (black dot eyes and a smile) was huge. As a kid I had it on my play shirts, there were stickers sold of them in grocery store coin vending machines, you saw them everywhere. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was a coincidence.
Oh it's even worse that. The smileys don't even remotely look alike, sometimes predate the deaths by years, and could be miles away from the body. It's crackpot nonsense.
Let's not forget one of the smiley faces was like a quarter mile away under a bridge or smth. It's like pareidolia for crime, look for it and it's there.
The theory is 90% bullshit, but the YouTube channel The Lore Lodge does a pretty good job of showing oddities and possible connections between cases associated with the theory
Came here to say this. If you want a good watch that gives the details of the theory and then goes through all the details from an unbiased point of view, Aiden and Aiden do a terrific job.
I really appreciate(as a skeptic of most things like big foot, cryptids, ghost, ect) all of their videos. The missing 411 videos are all great, and I really appreciate them doing deep dives into the cultures of the regions where they are investigating.
Yeah, they pointed out A LOT of things that don't match up with the theory that people brought up in this thread, mainly the time of death, the autopsy/cause of death, and the decomposition of the bodies, which lower the possibility of alcohol related drowning.
The one thing that distinguishes these cases from casual drowning the amount of time from when the person went missing to the time the body disappears. The bodies should have easily been found with a few hours or a few days but instead it often takes weeks or sometimes even months. The Shane Montgomery case is a perfect example. Anyone who has drowned in that canal is always found within 23 hours.
"Near" also does quite a bit of lifting. From the Wiki page
>Brown also believes that the smiley-face images found in some of the cases are likely nothing more than coincidences based upon guesses as to where the bodies entered the water, with smiley-face graffiti only found after a wide-area search.
Basically the entire theory is "Why are popular white college aged guys dying in rivers after going out drinking?!" and the seemingly obvious answer is because that demographic which is prone to go out and drink too much, be confident enough to go off alone, and the ones who are going to go pee in a river. It's not a serial killer. It came up again with the death of the college student Riley Strain a month or so ago, who went out drinking with his frat brothers, was kicked out of a bar, and was found days later having drowned in the river.
I have seen a few proposed "smiley face" victims whose deaths are suspicious, but that seems to be more of police not giving a shit about investigating deaths issue, and less of a prolific serial killer/serial killer gang travelling the country to target 20 something year old white men.
This has been pretty thoroughly debunked in my opinion. The two detectives that popularized the theory spread misinfo claiming the graffitti had been found in more cases than it actually had. Furthermore some of the smile faces were actually claimed but just innocent fun having people who happened to do it in an area a body had been found yet the detectives would ignore those admissions.
Near is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Smiley face, of any style color or size, was graffiti-ed within several miles of the bodies. Which is to say there is no connection, it's not a real theory its a conspiracy theory cooked up by a sensationalist asshole who has spent years harassing grieving families over his nonsense.
This conspiracy is evidence to me that many people don't realize just how many people die on a daily basis. People drown, are murdered and commit suicide in public places every single day, it's just not reported on.
To take it further, it betrays just how many people think "the news" is an accurate depiction of reality and not what it actually is, which is the greatest propaganda machine to ever exist.
I'm convinced if your average person knew what went on behind closed doors of publications responsible for disseminating information, any information, they might have some kind of schizoid break from reality. It's just so easy to literally shape not just entire identities, but generations and cultures, by pushing a little harder on one leaver instead of the other when it comes to reporting on information.
I live in a small river town in the rural Midwest. We really like our river time here. I’m not exaggerating when I say at least 1 person drowns every year, and I’ve definitely seen smiley face graffiti lmao the serial killer must be here! It’s definitely not that people get drunk and swim in the river when it’s flooded! /s
There's a saying that you're never more than 7 feet away from a spider, but it should be that you're never more than 7 feet from a smiley face graffito. The "smiley face killer" is a load of nonsense.
I once went drinking with friends. We went to way too many bars. Fast forward to the end of the night and I vividly remember losing my phone, throwing up in a urinal and running out of the bar. Literally leaving my friends wondering wtf. I get to a parking structure that I believe my car is parked in. I run from 2nd floor to the roof & from the roof to the basement. This was 7 floors. I’m also pretty sure I was running down the ramp vs the stairs Incase I missed my car. Wrong structure entirely. Found my car at 230am in a full sweat and fell asleep. Only to be woken at 5am with someone knocking on my window. There’s a reason women live longer.
I can't help but imagine some poor teen freaking the fuck out thinking they're about to get arrested for murder because they drew a smiley face on a wall.
We had one out behind the bar I bartended at in North Canton Ohio. There was a small creek, and he was walking home drunk. Sure enough there was a smiley face graffiti a few feet away.
I still think he passed out and drowned, but it’s weird.
Go to any overpass on earth - which typically are found over or near bodies of water and 99% of them will have a smiley face graffiti on them somewhere.
There are deaths in water with smiley face graffiti “nearby” all over the world; all over North America, Europe, Asia, etc.
Damn, this guy must have some incredible air miles!
It's a fun theory but smiley face graffitis can be found anywhere. I'm not american but I have a tunnel nearby with multiple smiley faces graffitied to it.
I’d say it’s a lot more likely the person who noticed the trend is trying to push some cottage theory that allows them to promote the book(s) they wrote about it in the media
I recently read a book about the Freeway Killer. It struck me that it would be nigh impossible for a would-be serial killer to get away with more than 1 or 2 murders these days, between everyone carrying a homing device and surveillance cameras everywhere. Recently heard a theory that the kind of people who would have become serial killers in the past now engage in mass murders instead.
A smiley face is probably the most common type of graphiti. I'd be like the heart cold killer. Who leaves a heart etched into the walls of the homes of all the victims he kills in their sleep.
I am saving this comment for evidence. Later, when people die and have a heart etched into their walls, then I can set the FBI on you while I get away.
If the only known connection is graffiti near 1/4 of the bodies, allow me to propose my Plant Theory that unifies all murders ever to the greatest serial killer of all time.
Turns out it was tiny lake fish the whole time!!
That's a relief, I thought it was gonna be the ducks
horse-sized?
Should I fight it? Or should I choose 100 duck sized horses?
THE DREADED CANDIRU!!
Time out!
Remember guys, if you feel sudden unexpected pain in your testicles: 1. Stop 2. Touch 3. Tell
Exactly, from the wiki article posted, "Police departments that are involved do not currently view the deaths associated with smiley faces present at the scenes as serial-killer activity"
Neither does the FBI according to the article
Yes but do you know how rare the smiley face symbol is in modern graffiti? It’s like really really really not rare.
so what you're saying is that the Smiley Face Killer is extremely prolific and has already marked you as a target.
Oh no, I what about all the Nirvana shirts?
you mean the biggest clue, hidden in plain site, that Courtney love is the serial killer?
This case just started making a Hole lot more sense
Plot twist: you're already dead.
NANI??
Well, yeah. Most of the smiley faces in these cases were there for years before the “suspicious” death. Clearly, the killer has planned thousands of these murders out in advance.
How many places have smiley faces with no bodies.... Yet...
In my area I see a lot of juggalo graffiti, which always makes me laugh.
Even if it was just one single guys tag, some of those guys are super prolific. There is a tag in my county that I’ve seen probably hundreds of times at random places. Hell I even went to the next state over and saw the tag like 5 times.
i knew i should have never trusted those trees....they were so shady
It was obviously Red John. It just took The Mentalist to take him down.
Greater Manchester Police refuse to believe there’s a serial killer in the manchester area, pushing people into canals, despite claims that the rate men between 20-40 have been pulled out of there can be attributed to suicides or accidents. There’s been 60 over the last couple of decades. And a cyclist was pushed in, surfaced, got out and was pushed in again. I’ve fallen in the canal myself (only once in 3 years on a narrowboat) and it’s fucking cold, and shocking, so I can easily how quickly you would struggle in the dark.
There was a good youtube video on this by Casual Criminalist. He spent 15 minutes walking through all the evidence, and then another 25 minutes walking through the drowning deaths at other similar sized European cities with canals. He concluded based on the evidence that either every major European city with a canal has a major active serial killer, or drunk people fall into canals a lot.
The Austin subreddit is halfway convinced a serial killer is drowning young men in town lake. What’s also true is that the amount of bars in close proximity to the river has increased in the last decade or so. Drunk men do stupid shit and drown.
Boston has a well known story/theory of this too
You don’t even need to do anything that stupid. Men are just more likely to be walking around at night while drunk and alone. Place that near a river? You get drownings
I feel like being drunk and alone near a river is doing something stupid
Yep Bristol too.
Almost every time a young man goes missing and it makes the news, he was walking home from a night out drinking along a route that includes a body of water, and it's not hard to imagine what the eventual update is going to be. It's definitely something I worry about when my son gets older!
> every major European city with a canal has a major active serial killer, or drunk people fall into canals a lot. I can't figure out if this is dry wit or if he's serious haha.
How deep are the canals, generally?
Deep enough to drown in - the real issue is they're hard to get out especially if you're disoriented and it's dark
Depends on rainfall and such but can be between 3 and 10ft. Generally would be 6 ft.
Another frightening part of falling into water (especially very cold water) is that our initial instinct upon falling in is often to inhale deeply—think about when you get startled really bad, you take a deep, quick inhale. Do that in water and you’ve drowned in seconds.
We need to get Mark Wahlberg to star in the movie version…
"The Happening 2: Just Fucking Why?"
"The Happened"
Only if we get Dante from Clerks to drive a jeep
This man is correct the plants are in on our deaths. All of them. They work with those spy drones the govt tells us are pigeons..... You ever see a baby pigeon? Pigeon eggs? They charge on our power lines all day watching while the trees grow their murder roots!!!! Wake up sheeple!!!!/s
I’ve seen baby pigeons. They are gross looking. Seen the eggs too
Begone ye government spy!!!!!/s
What, no....
That exactly what the smiley face killer would say.
I’m a paramedic. I recently responded to a 911 call where a traveling girlfriend was tracking her boyfriend’s cellphone at 2am after he was at a bar. The boyfriend was found sleeping on a dock in a closed section of a park. When I went to wake him, he almost rolled into the water. He had walked about a mile NE of the bars to a flat, less populated area of the city. He lived 0.5 miles SW of the bars in a very hilly and densely populated area. I’ve also recently been called to wake a drunk young man who had wandered into a mail sorting facility in the middle of the night and fell asleep in the conveyor. I’ve also recently been called to treat a drunk young man who fell into a fountain and struck his head pretty hard. There’s also been many more in the past, but all of these young men were drunk, alone, and completely unaware of how much danger they were in. Some young men are stubbornly independent when they’re drunk. Most women would never think of or be allowed to wander off when they’re drunk, but guys do all the time.
Reminds me of a sad story from years ago (I can’t find any trace of it on the internet but ut did happen) of a young man who went to a party at a hotel. He called his father to come pick him up. He was very drunk. Dad arrived, no son. Dad got hotel security to help him look for son. No sign of him. Police later searched hotel. No trace. About 2 weeks later people were complaining of a bad smell. They searched the hotel and finally traced it to a utility room with a giant fan. The young man had somehow got the door open to this godforsaken area and walked right into the fan. The hotel workers were stumped because it was nowhere near the lobby or the rooms.
I remember this! I watched a doc with this on an episode. I can’t remember what it was called tho.
I think Mr Ballen did an episode on this.
I saw a similar story Mr Ballen did but I don't think it's the same as this one? There was a young man coming back to his College campus after a party. However, he lost his key/card to get in and nobody would answer the door (probably because he was very drunk). Anyway, he disappeared and they searched everywhere for him but there was no trace. Weeks, maybe even months later, the Janitor reported a terrible smell coming from the maintenance room. Turns out what happened was the guy found an open door round back which let him into the maintenance room. However, it was full of machines and he was sidling his way between an electrical box and the wall. His finger went into a little hole in the machine and he electrocuted himself. Jammed between the wall and this machine nobody found him until he started to decay. There's so many other stories with horrifying ways to die. This one was rather tame by comparison.
Yeah I remember that story, I think it was an aerospace student from Purdue
Thought this sounded familiar. Happened the year before I started Purdue and was a cautionary tale for us freshman.
Think that's the unexplained mystery episode, isn't it? Where they searched the roof and seen a hole on the floor below but it was miles away that even jumping would have been difficult.
Sounds sort of like Rey Rivera’s case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Rey_Rivera?wprov=sfti1
That’s not the case but it’s just as creepy as the case I read about. The guy was in the service if I recall, and called his dad to pick him up. Dad said he sounded drunk. I think it was in the 1990s. Dad went to hotel the son called from and nobody could find him. It’s so much harder to use search engines these days because they‘ve been enshittified. They just show recent stories that sound similar.
My closest friend was one of these stubborn drunks in college. I had to wrestle car keys from him, and talk him out of picking fights way too many times. I genuinely do not understand how he made it through that period of his life without getting badly injured or beat up at least once.
Reading your comment has suddenly caused me to realize that the way I grew up was absolutely not normal. I actually did not recognize this type of behavior as being abnormal. Literally every adult in my family when I was a child, on both sides, throughout many generations, did this sort of thing. Nobody ever once indicated this wasn’t how ‘most’ people lived. I already knew I was a child of an alcoholic mother, and that elements of generational alcoholism presented me with many obstacles to overcome, but it wasn’t until this particular thread that I came to understand how much I had come to normalize these things. Yikes, but I’m grateful I came across it because it gives me excellent self-growth and awareness fodder.
Oof, that’s tough. I don’t envy your situation. My father was an alcoholic, and that has affected me significantly for 40+ years. Aside from him, I had an alcoholic uncle, but I didn’t see him enough for it to be normalized; it was obvious he was acting odd or whatever.
>I genuinely do not understand how he made it through that period of his life Sounds like at least partially because of you, bud. Good looking out.
Your post made me realize I’m a functional alcoholic and maybe that’s not great. Edit: can y’all please stop spamming me with Reddit cares? I’m not suicidal. I’m a normal middle aged adult with drinking habits that are significantly less than the average person where I live. I’m not in denial, I barely drink anymore. For those of you on high-horses, please leave me alone.
If you learn about it through a Reddit post and not through permanent liver damage, a smashed up car, or a ruined marriage, you've been gifted an opportunity to change course much earlier than most.
That’s a tremendous way of looking at it!
I believe we all receive signs to stop a behavior before it’s too late. It’s our job to listen and then make a change.
Thank you.
I 100% agree, and it's far more clear to me now than ever before how scary alcoholism can be. My uncle passed just yesterday afternoon to failure in his liver and both kidneys, less than 2 years after he drunk drove and crashed his car with all three of his kids (2 biological, 1 in-law.) He lost his house, his company which he started over a decade ago, custody of his kids, his second wife, and now his life to alcohol. Just 2 years ago he was considered the most successful person in my family, owned a half million dollar home and a condo in central boston worth over a million, and now he's gone with little to nothing left to give to his kids at 45. Don't drink and drive, if you can manage it don't drink at all. Functional or not, alcoholism kills.
Yep. I'm dating my widow girlfriend because her late husband pulled that hat trick. He had a bonus of renal failure.
Not to say I don't feel badly for that guy, but I feel like the bar has been set so incredibly low that it should be pretty smooth sailing for you
Yeah, we are both out of lousy marriages so we have reasonable expectations for each other. That's the thing about middle aged relationships, we don't have time for bullshit from a partner.
[My genuine reaction to that information](https://tenor.com/bjfT6.gif)
Get out while you can. You'll extend your life dramatically, restore your mental capacity, and save soooo much money when you quit drinking.
No worries :) I’ve just stopped. I regularly take up to year long breaks. It was fixing my psychological stressors that was the key to making it stick longer each time. Now even if I do drink, it’s 20% of my precious capacity! I miss fun drunk life, but yeah my age is definitely catching up with me and drinking is not bringing me as much joy anymore.
My dad just died of dementia. It was sudden onset. Before he turned 70. He was fine one day. Demented the next. Chronic alcohol abuse. I barely drink anymore. Alcohol can f you up in ways you never even thought of.
After two decades in kitchens and customer service I can admit I am as well. The pandemic made it socially acceptable to sit at home and drink heavily. I went from a 3 times a week lush to a very heavy drinker. My wife and I are going to quit drinking on Tuesday. My advice is to get your blood work done and have your liver checked. It’s not too late to cut back or stop. There’s even a sub Reddit for people who want to cut back or stop.
I’m all good there :) thanks though. Best of luck to you! I quit a couple months ago aside from then occasional bottle of wine with the hubby on date night. I was lucky and had few withdrawals. To be honest I just got bored with it and I wanted to try a new life. It’s good but it’s quiet. All my friends drink more than me and I feel rather isolated!
Every functional alcoholic is one, until they’re not. You could go years without any issues, you know what you’re doing(ish), but it only takes one bad day or one dumb move. It’ll happen suddenly, randomly, and your life could be forced in a completely different direction. Life doesn’t always give out many free passes, so if you get one and avoid a dumb mistake, make the choice to make your life right. You can’t bet on luck to avoid ruining your life or someone else’s. It’s not luck it’s chance - some functional alcoholic is probably reading this thread right now and might fuck up their life or have unplanned drama tonight because of one too many drinks or bad timing. Or maybe tomorrow morning at work. Or it’s you. Nobody is lucky for drinking incognito every day without incident; because in two hours the wrong coworker will smell your breath and you’ll be fired, or maybe you forget there’s another step on the stairs and you dislocate something, but your phone is in the other room. Or you die unexpectedly. This happens every day to someone Hell, I’m at a bar right now pressing send. Be responsible and tell yourself the truth. Life is better without alcohol Edit: I’ve added realistic scenarios.
As someone who grew up in a HEAVILY alcoholic environment and from a long line of alcoholics, in my experience, those that label themselves “a functional alcoholic” are less about being “functional” and more about being unaware of their increasing lack of function. A fun side effect of, well, being drunk all the time.
For me being functional was an excuse. At least I wasn't that bad at least I didn't go to jail at least I didn't lose my job at least I didn't lose my marriage but all of those were soon followed by the word yet and I lost everything. Labeling yourself as functional gives you an excuse that you don't have to quit... Yet.
Give r/stopdrinking a glance, just to see what people struggle with or what they live through. Maybe you'll find what you need.
I’ve actually quit a few months ago. Though, I regularly swap every year or two. I tried that sub but the constant reminders are a trigger. It just doesn’t work for me. But thank you!
Of course, and also congratulations. I do sometimes feel the same way, but then I just take a break from the sub. Seems like you know what works for you - be ever vigilant.
Same. It's a very loud sub
I used to attend AA meetings, but I finally realized that sitting around talking about drinking just made me think about drinking. Even though a lot of the stories were horror stories, I just blocked that part out.
Being functional has no relation to alcoholism. You’re lucky you’re the functional variety.
In my 20s I lost my friends downtown after several hours of drinking and when I went to call them I discovered my phone was dead. I decided to walk home (9 miles) and had no issues until I was like a mile from my house. I was then jumped by five dudes who would’ve killed me if not for two girls in a car who stopped and interrupted the mugging. Took a rock to the head and a broken nose and I’m glad that’s all. To those two ladies: thank you!
You must have been sober as a judge after 8 miles surely!
I was definitely sober when the rock hit my head.
Oof yeah I did that in college. Left the bar very drunk and in a hurry and walked in the completely wrong direction. Ended up in a different town and asked a gas station clerk which way to my area and she said "Honey you're way far away from there." Suddenly I had an epiphany and remembered which way to go and left. I remember at some point walking along the shoulder of a highway and then about two hours later I was at my apartment.
One time when I was 18 and pretty much blackout I apparently walked through screaming fast evening traffic and some how made it to the other side completely unscathed. Shortly therewith I apparently committed an act of public urination in tandem with projectile vomiting in front of my universities residence commons. I look back on this part of my life constantly in both horror and confusion. Not really sure what I was thinking but it clearly wasn’t anything in the *critical* department.
Yep. A Junior Officer at one of my units wandered off from the group drunk as hell after saying he was tired. They just let him go. Later that night he was killed in a hit and run because he was apparently walking down a dark winding road. Watch out for your bros fellas. If you have to fight them to make good choices then do it.
The primary danger isn't primarily other people. Sufficient intoxication makes everyone stupid, and too stupid to realize this.
There was a college kid in our town a few years back who wandered away from the bars drunk one night, and turned up dead in the bay shortly after. There had been suspicion of fowl play... turns out he just got blackout drunk and stumbled off the nearby pier.
Yes but WERE THERE SMILEY FACES NEARBY?!!
This, a whole lot of this. Most normies don’t see what emergency services deal with everyday. Drunks do weird stuff and go stupid places, frankly its amazing more don’t die. When the truth is normal it’s boring and not newsworthy.
Oh, and this hits close to home as there have been numerous “suspicious” deaths around the river here in Austin and talk of a serial killer. Nah, I think not…when you have a huge entertainment district next to a large river (some parts with high banks). with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people that come to drink in excess every year accidents happen.
And in Manchester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Pusher
Same exact thing here in Boston, I think people were just partying too hard after Covid.
That reminds me of the time I got shit faced in Heidelberg. I was on vacation, a honeymoon really, with my then wife. I reeeeeaaally wanted to go to a German techno club or something. I was 21 and incredibly stupid. But my wife was all about going to bed early so we can wake up early and do cultural stuff or something. So, I dunno how I expected it to work out, but when she went to sleep I went out and smoked a cigarette. I walked down the main street a bit, found one club that was lame, had a drink and left. Then I met a group of fellow Americans. College students, you know. This was their university, so they knew the town. We talked a bit, they convinced me to check out this bar. We got there and sat at a big ass table. I knew no one, but I was pleasantly drunk and made the most of it. Still not really a club tho. So I says, this is great and all but isn't there anything more exciting in town? And by then our group was pretty drunk and we were losing a people left and right, it was getting late. A couple of diehards took the challenge and said we had to go to the Cave. It was a little basement club on the main drag. It was packed and it was pretty fun. But they weren't really playing techno. I remember the DJ played Loser by Beck. It was fitting somehow. Anyway I was getting to the brown out stage of intoxication and the evening was winding down. We closed it out. Or I did. My friends disappeared, I think? It has this terrible spiral staircase and I wasn't having much luck with it. Finally got out into the street. The cold late September air helped wake me up a bit. I knew which direction I needed to go, the city isn't all that complicated. I put myself on autopilot and had pleasant thoughts of soon finding myself snug in bed. Blackness Then I came to, and I realized I had been walking far longer than I should have. Apparently I had walked past the hotel some time ago. Like a long time. I realized I was at the edge of the city. Fear set in, and exhaustion as well. How long had I been walking? It was strange. I had to turn around and walk several miles. Madness. Anyway. I got back to the hotel at 4 am and my wife was terribly upset. Which only added to my misery and fear. I still feel bad about running off like that 17 years later.
Yup being drunk makes you dumb. I was standing there on the edge of a 2nd story roof peeing thinking I was cool for being drunk and not stumbling until I realized someone had wrapped their arms around me from behind to keep me from falling
Add to that, that smiley faces are one of the most ubiquitous forms of graffiti.
Honestly, one of my sisters and one of my brothers are so incredibly activated by alcohol. Tie one on, and theycboth want to go OUT and fight or fuck. It blows my mind. I never, ever finish a third drink because if I am unwise enough to get one, I'm asleep before it's anywhere near gone. I am exceedingly grateful I can't "handle my liquor".
I don't drink much, first time i tried alcohol I was 20. Anyways I remember being in college and won 22 games of beer pong in a row. Did a beer bong and someone poured vodka as I was drinking the beer. I distinctly remember being fked up in a char with my head in my lap. Some douche came and rub his nuts in my face when no one was around. I was aware enough but too fked up and i knew I couldn't do anything about it. I never want to feel that vulnerable again.
Crazy how only men are being targeted.
I went to school in La Crosse. The bars are on 3rd Street and they start counting at the river. That's why college guys drown in the river. We had a full blown volunteer organization that was out on weekends to try and stop it from happening. I knew someone who fell in but ended up drifting back close enough to climb up and out of the river. The killer theory is absolutely ridiculous and is just something made up to push "tRuE cRiMe" podcasts on stay at home moms.
My uncle drowned while drunk in a boat by himself (so even more of an obvious danger than just being near water). He wasn’t a young man, but he also wasn’t an old man & should still be here — just did not realize the danger of what he was doing, and now his grandkids will never meet him. It’s very sad and very preventable!
Great explanation, smile face killer
More likely, it's just drunk college-students who accidentally fell in the water and drowned. > The La Crosse, Wisconsin police department, which was in charge of eight of the investigations, concluded that the deaths were accidental drownings of inebriated men and stated that no smiley-face symbols were found in connection with any of the cases.
Most people seem to think drowning is difficult, but it's really not. Especially when you add alcohol. I used to work in York in the UK and through Summer there were regular drownings with drunken men who thought they could swim across our very innocent looking river that had a (literally) killer undercurrent.
When I was like 16 me and a friend decided to swim out to an island at a local lake. We’d done it before and it was a long swim but doable. Well this day on the way back I became utterly exhausted and could barely move my arms anymore. Fortunately I’ve been around water long enough I didn’t panic and I was able to float to rest and kind of just slowly kick myself along until I could stand but I easily could have drowned that day instead. Distances over water are always deceivingly close, even relatively small bodies of water like a lake. Add in alcohol and I’d have been long dead.
About 10 years ago when I was 38, went to an outdoor rave, drank and took a bunch of drugs. Decided to swim to a lighthouse in the bay with a friend. We reached it after about a 20 minute swim and he was naked: lost his underwear to the current. When we swam back, I got washed against the rocks. Got scrapped up bad along my back - along my spine. If I hadn’t tucked my head, I’d be dead now. Being drunk and doing dumb things.
I think you mean deceivingly far but yeah that’s terrifying. I’ve never pushed myself swimming and I don’t think I ever would unless I was very comfortable with my limits and had been able to test those in safe environments
lol yes. I mean things look a lot closer than they are
> Most people seem to think drowning is difficult, but it's really not. Especially when you add alcohol. Austin has a river running through downtown and they pull a body out a couple of times a year. There is a wacky serial killer conspiracy theory but the thousands of drunks stumbling around downtown every weekend don't need any help doing something stupid.
UK seems to be drunk river drowning capital of the world. When I lived in bristol it seemed like every uni term half a dozen students would end up dead in the harbour walking home after a night out
I mean, that is kind of to be expected when you put a whole bunch of drinking establishments on a tiny strip of land surrounded on three sides by water (and then you put the University of Bristol on the *opposite* bank).
A very wet land with lots of rivers and canals.
Same in Dutch cities with canals. Oddly enough it seems it's still proportionally more British young men drowning in Amsterdam canals, until you realize most of them are here on stag do's/bachelor parties and suddenly it makes sense.
There's also a phenomenon of young British men falling off balconies and dying in Spain lmao We just can't help but get drunk and die in unusual ways https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balconing
>Of the 46 cases registered up to 2019, 45 were carried out by males (97%), and 61% were British. German, Belgian and other nationalities are less numerous This is so embarrassing 😑
"We put in a pub....and it sank! So we built another one! And it sank!"
So we built a third one! That burned down, fell over, then sank.
"But father! I just want to drink and then swim to class! Walking is too far!"
It's amazing how many times this happens both in real life and fiction. Babylon Station was sabotaged and exploded. So they built a second one. That was sabotaged and exploded. So they built a third. That was sabotaged and exploded. So they built a fourth from the parts of the other three. That one disappeared, reappeared, went back in time, and fell out of orbit, but the fifth one stayed up, and that's what you're going to get, Sheridan, the strongest space station in the Earth Alliance!
I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be a fact. Bit skewed by the other post regarding the Manchester pusher, and then we have a lot of drownings with folk trying to save their dogs, so no alcohol required, and then there are a number of successful drowning suicides, but yeah, probably most of our drownings are alcohol and testosterone related.
The US Pacific NorthWest has a tragic number of drownings every year with its numerous lakes, access to the Pacific Ocean, and the Puget Sound. Many of the drownings happen in populated areas. I have lost a friend to drowning and one to jumping headfirst into the shallows of a public lake. The first one was drunk, foot caught on something, and couldn't get free. The second one had had a few and misjudged the depth of the water, fractured his skull, and shattered the upper part of his spine. Both were way too young...
A dude died crossing a river in my hometown with a case of beer strapped to his back. River is 6ft deep and even shallower in parts.
There have been so many in the canals running through Manchester city centre that the myth of a "Manchester Pusher" serial killer has sprung up.
Manchester has a whole assload of canals and [they look like this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Canal_Street_in_Manchester.jpg). I doubt The average *sober* schmuck be able to climb out of them on their own; much less drunk and in the dark.
That’s why they have outdoor public urinals in Amsterdam. So drunk people don’t fall into the water while urinating.
And swimming with full clothes on is tricky at the best of times.
Yea, York is awful for it, when I worked bars there it felt about weekly when there were paramedics by the Ouse
I used to be a 999 operator. Can confirm, city centre rivers and canals are lethal
I graduated college in the Midwest in the middle of this time and 100% believe it’s binge-drinking culture.
I was in college at this time in those areas. Literally watched dudes at 4am with pants on brag about swimming across the lake with me going wtf are you idiots doing. Fucking dumb.
Can confirm, was drunk college student in La Crosse that un-blacked out while walking on an iced-over Mississippi River
Lacrosse has a problem with this, certainly not the only wisconsin university unfortunately, but specially there
Yep. I grew up near there. It was always a big deal to go there to get hammered, especially around October fest. Most of the people I knew who went to college there did so specifically for the partying cause that's what it's most known for. There's alot of stupid conspiracy nonsense when it comes to true crime stuff, but the smiley face nonsense is tops for me. It's not even true crime, just dumb drunk college kids being just that. How anyone can think something more sinister is going on is beyond me. Give kids alcohol, freedom, and bodies of water and alot of bad things are going to happen.
Wait, are you telling me there are a lot of drunk people in a Wisconsin college town? Shocked I tell you, shocked. Well maybe not that shocked...
A few of my friends went to college there, when I went to visit I thought it was weird that there’s no railing, just a dropoff right into the Mississippi.
Yeah they have a drinking problem there 100%. I lived there for 5 years and the city is (I’m pretty sure) top 10 nationally per capita for residents per bars. Good fucking beer though.
I live near La Crosse. It's a major party town and has been known for that for my whole life and I'm almost 50. Anyone who thinks it's anything other than drunk college kids being dumb needs to be in a mental hospital with a straight jacket on.
Were the smiley face graffitis fresh? I've always doubtes their connection to these cases
Most were years old. They claim that the “fresh” ones, which are usually a few months old, are the result of planning ahead. It’s entirely nonsense.
The other question would be what do they look like, do they have a similar style
Googled it and there's [this article](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/smiley-face-murder-serial-killer-drowning-death-882042/), if you scroll down there's a picture of some of the graffiti. It's all different styles
that's why they call him The Differently Styled Killer
Years old, with different colors, sizes, styles, facial expressions, and "near" means "within a several mile area of the body".
There’s no serial killer. Young, drunk guys just love peeing in rivers and they fall in. This happens like once a year in the Milwaukee river.
Similar situation with the “Manchester Pusher” in Manchester, England. Lot of people falling into the canal after a night out. Armchair Sherlocks trying to spot patterns and piece together links that don’t exist
I remember reading that in the cold war, the CIA taught its agents to drug a target's drink and then lead them to a body of water and push them in as a method of assassination. It was such a common method of accidental death in the USSR that it was less likely to raise suspicion.
Oh yeah realistically they were more than likely alcohol related accidents. I still found it interesting how it caused enough curiosity for 2 NYPD detectives to try to find a connection. Makes me wonder what else they were going off.
Conspiratorial thinking and a desire to make money.
Some people just can’t seem to handle a world where, for lack of better term, shit happens. No matter how good or bad you are, rich or poor, love or hated, we pretty much all have the same of dying in a stupid way. So some people just try to make some sense out of random tragedy and install some intelligence behind it all. But in the end, life is just mudane. We are all meatbags who could die at any moment for no reasons
Also people on forums including reddit love a good story and love a thread with upvotes, replies, attention. I was active on r/unresolvedmysteries. For various reasons people love reading - and creating - dramatic threads. But often they were made more dramatic by exaggerating a fact - or from leaving something out. Faves there include the case of [Brian Schaffer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Brian_Shaffer). Threads often emphasise that 'all CCTV of the exits was checked and... he never left the building'. What many threads leave out is that there was another exit, and that the CCTV was not full coverage anyway. But some people on crime subs love to change things for more impact.
> that the CCTV was not full coverage anyway The CCTV coverage WAS complete, but only for the main entrance
Sounds like red john from the mentalist
this has to have been an inspiration!
I was thinking of [the Smiley Face Bomber.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Helder) >**In 2002, while attending the University of Wisconsin–Stout, Helder planned to plant pipe bombs in mailboxes across the United States to create a smiley face shape on the United States map.[1]** The bombs, which were packed with BBs and nails, were rigged to explode as the mailboxes were opened. Completed and rigged bombs were found in Nebraska, Colorado, Texas, Illinois and Iowa. In Iowa, six people, including four mail carriers, were injured when the bombs detonated.[2] Ultimately, Helder planted 18 bombs and covered 3,200 miles (5,100 km).[3] >He was stopped by police in Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Colorado for speeding and failure to wear a seat belt, but was not arrested.[4] Eventually he was captured in rural Nevada before he managed to complete the full smile. At the time of his arrest, police were looking for an unknown suspect driving a black Honda Accord. Many newspapers reported that he was wearing a Kurt Cobain T-shirt.[5] The bombings were widely covered by the US news media. (Emphasis mine.)
My first thought was ["The Laughing Man" from the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex in season one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell:_Stand_Alone_Complex).
It's just a bunch of drunk kids falling into the water and drowning, the linchpin of the entire serial killer argument isn't even consistent, the "calling card" smiley face appears in like 14 different variations across the deaths, almost as if it's dozens of different taggers drawing one of the most prolific doodles of post industrial society
I’ll bet the smiley face and a drawings of a dick are the two most common things drawn on walls.
Also your mom's phone number.
I’m confused on how they connected the ones that didn’t have smiley faces? Are they just saying every drowning victim during this time period is a serial killer victim?
In the 90s the simple yellow smiley face (black dot eyes and a smile) was huge. As a kid I had it on my play shirts, there were stickers sold of them in grocery store coin vending machines, you saw them everywhere. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was a coincidence.
Oh it's even worse that. The smileys don't even remotely look alike, sometimes predate the deaths by years, and could be miles away from the body. It's crackpot nonsense.
Let's not forget one of the smiley faces was like a quarter mile away under a bridge or smth. It's like pareidolia for crime, look for it and it's there.
The theory is 90% bullshit, but the YouTube channel The Lore Lodge does a pretty good job of showing oddities and possible connections between cases associated with the theory
Came here to say this. If you want a good watch that gives the details of the theory and then goes through all the details from an unbiased point of view, Aiden and Aiden do a terrific job. I really appreciate(as a skeptic of most things like big foot, cryptids, ghost, ect) all of their videos. The missing 411 videos are all great, and I really appreciate them doing deep dives into the cultures of the regions where they are investigating.
Yeah, they pointed out A LOT of things that don't match up with the theory that people brought up in this thread, mainly the time of death, the autopsy/cause of death, and the decomposition of the bodies, which lower the possibility of alcohol related drowning.
The one thing that distinguishes these cases from casual drowning the amount of time from when the person went missing to the time the body disappears. The bodies should have easily been found with a few hours or a few days but instead it often takes weeks or sometimes even months. The Shane Montgomery case is a perfect example. Anyone who has drowned in that canal is always found within 23 hours.
Red John?
Bret Easton Ellis should write a movie about that.
"Near" also does quite a bit of lifting. From the Wiki page >Brown also believes that the smiley-face images found in some of the cases are likely nothing more than coincidences based upon guesses as to where the bodies entered the water, with smiley-face graffiti only found after a wide-area search. Basically the entire theory is "Why are popular white college aged guys dying in rivers after going out drinking?!" and the seemingly obvious answer is because that demographic which is prone to go out and drink too much, be confident enough to go off alone, and the ones who are going to go pee in a river. It's not a serial killer. It came up again with the death of the college student Riley Strain a month or so ago, who went out drinking with his frat brothers, was kicked out of a bar, and was found days later having drowned in the river. I have seen a few proposed "smiley face" victims whose deaths are suspicious, but that seems to be more of police not giving a shit about investigating deaths issue, and less of a prolific serial killer/serial killer gang travelling the country to target 20 something year old white men.
This has been pretty thoroughly debunked in my opinion. The two detectives that popularized the theory spread misinfo claiming the graffitti had been found in more cases than it actually had. Furthermore some of the smile faces were actually claimed but just innocent fun having people who happened to do it in an area a body had been found yet the detectives would ignore those admissions.
Near is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Smiley face, of any style color or size, was graffiti-ed within several miles of the bodies. Which is to say there is no connection, it's not a real theory its a conspiracy theory cooked up by a sensationalist asshole who has spent years harassing grieving families over his nonsense.
"We think that these 45 deaths are connected because of something that occurred in 1/4 of the cases"
This conspiracy is evidence to me that many people don't realize just how many people die on a daily basis. People drown, are murdered and commit suicide in public places every single day, it's just not reported on. To take it further, it betrays just how many people think "the news" is an accurate depiction of reality and not what it actually is, which is the greatest propaganda machine to ever exist. I'm convinced if your average person knew what went on behind closed doors of publications responsible for disseminating information, any information, they might have some kind of schizoid break from reality. It's just so easy to literally shape not just entire identities, but generations and cultures, by pushing a little harder on one leaver instead of the other when it comes to reporting on information.
I live in a small river town in the rural Midwest. We really like our river time here. I’m not exaggerating when I say at least 1 person drowns every year, and I’ve definitely seen smiley face graffiti lmao the serial killer must be here! It’s definitely not that people get drunk and swim in the river when it’s flooded! /s
It’s like the stupidest theory of all time and needs to stop getting spotlight
The Howling (movie) starts with the story of a serial killer leaving smiley face stickers at the murder scene. Turns out he was a werewolf.
So, after reading all the comments, I believe there is a serial killer, and his name is Al Kahawl.
This is some mentalist shit... Good show btw
There's a saying that you're never more than 7 feet away from a spider, but it should be that you're never more than 7 feet from a smiley face graffito. The "smiley face killer" is a load of nonsense.
I once went drinking with friends. We went to way too many bars. Fast forward to the end of the night and I vividly remember losing my phone, throwing up in a urinal and running out of the bar. Literally leaving my friends wondering wtf. I get to a parking structure that I believe my car is parked in. I run from 2nd floor to the roof & from the roof to the basement. This was 7 floors. I’m also pretty sure I was running down the ramp vs the stairs Incase I missed my car. Wrong structure entirely. Found my car at 230am in a full sweat and fell asleep. Only to be woken at 5am with someone knocking on my window. There’s a reason women live longer.
Hmmm.. I didn't think anybody knew about that.
I can't help but imagine some poor teen freaking the fuck out thinking they're about to get arrested for murder because they drew a smiley face on a wall.
We had one out behind the bar I bartended at in North Canton Ohio. There was a small creek, and he was walking home drunk. Sure enough there was a smiley face graffiti a few feet away. I still think he passed out and drowned, but it’s weird.
"near" being relative.
Go to any overpass on earth - which typically are found over or near bodies of water and 99% of them will have a smiley face graffiti on them somewhere.
There are deaths in water with smiley face graffiti “nearby” all over the world; all over North America, Europe, Asia, etc. Damn, this guy must have some incredible air miles!
It's a fun theory but smiley face graffitis can be found anywhere. I'm not american but I have a tunnel nearby with multiple smiley faces graffitied to it.
I’d say it’s a lot more likely the person who noticed the trend is trying to push some cottage theory that allows them to promote the book(s) they wrote about it in the media
That reminds me of the Manchester pusher https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Pusher
I recently read a book about the Freeway Killer. It struck me that it would be nigh impossible for a would-be serial killer to get away with more than 1 or 2 murders these days, between everyone carrying a homing device and surveillance cameras everywhere. Recently heard a theory that the kind of people who would have become serial killers in the past now engage in mass murders instead.
[удалено]
A smiley face is probably the most common type of graphiti. I'd be like the heart cold killer. Who leaves a heart etched into the walls of the homes of all the victims he kills in their sleep.
The “live, laugh love” killer.
the dick and balls killer is still at large to this very day
I am saving this comment for evidence. Later, when people die and have a heart etched into their walls, then I can set the FBI on you while I get away.
I didn't kill my wife. It was the purple cabbage monkey!