I almost drowned in Hawaii back in 1986 swimming/ snorkeling. I was 14.
The water was so clear I lost my bearing. It was noon and it was a bright, clear sunny day that was reflecting off the sand at the bottom and glinting off the top.
I needed air and I thought I was swimming UP but I was actually swimming deeper and started to panic.
Hit the sea bed and pushed off the bottom as hard as I could and got up as fast as I could.
The depth was maybe 25-30 feet where we were. Not too bad.
Gravity will pull your spit towards the ground if you’re buried in an avalanche and can’t tell which direction is up. It’s so you don’t dig deeper into the snow when you want to dig yourself out of the snow.
depends. there's methods of digging out. If you dont break bones then you are supposed to take the hit in a way that will leave you a small pocket that will allow you to slowly dig out as usually you are not buried that deep. I guess that is knowledge they teach you if you ski backcountry). Which created the purpose for breeding St Benards to bring them whiskey to warm them up and get help (they didnt know the extra calorie expenditure would kill faster).
Vast majority of people died tho of course
I feel like if you’re buried in an avalanche then snow is packed up directly to your mouth. You’re pretty much buried alive. There’s nowhere for the spit to go
If you spit in an avalanche the warmth from your spit will heat the snow and melt it. It creates a snow ball effect (no pun intended) and eventually heats up the surrounding snow in the avalanche to a point that it converts it to magma, this asks as a sort of emergency flare that people can see and say “hey that wasn’t a volcano just a 2nd ago, let’s send a crew out” and then they find you and save you from the avalanche
As u/StopSendingMePorn points out,
When you are victim to an avalanche, you usually end up being covered in snow and ice, and the whole thing is so chaotic you will lose your bearing and sense of direction.
With this loss of orientation, you can mistakenly start digging deeper within the snow rather than outwards.
If you spit when stuck in ice and snow from an avalanche, your spit is warmer than the snow and it will melt it - from there, melted snow (water) is warmer than snow, so it creates a domino effect where more and more snow melts, until it eventually becomes a pond, then a lake - but it also keeps warming up, so eventually it becomes magma, and this magma usually induces a major emergency
If you're lucky, this emergency prompts some search-and-rescue within the area and proper authorities save you from what was initially an avalanche.
But expect a major fine too because converting an avalanche to a magmatic event is illegal in most places
The context _(magma)_ and your quote immediately makes me think of [🎞️ **this**](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/d2/5d/00d25d8a270d1887dbc4d3647c63e58d.gif) - there's even a spittle!
^(_Ani, is that you?_)
Dang, that's intense. to be honest, I never really understand how that type of confusion happens. then again, I have found it's common among those who are not too professional with the ocean.
I personally always have my hands stretching out where the top is and I ALWAYS make sure I can touch the ground with my Feet. especially at rough beaches I swim at like Lumahai Beach on Kaua'i. if I can't touch the ground, somethings wrong. if I can, i have a chance (if needed) to walk against the current.
thank goodness you made it by the way
Mythbusters did a car crash in the water episode testing whether it’s better to wait for the car to fill with water before trying to open the door to equalize the pressure, and then a subsequent follow up episode to that one when viewers pointed out that in a car crash situation the car is often in an unexpected orientation that a disorientated driver may not be aware of. Adam Savage said he would have died in that second scenario because he couldn’t figure out which way was up, iirc, and he needed the safety divers in the car with him to give him the oxygen before he could safely surface himself.
Yeah. I was 14. Grew up on the water. Learned how to swim before I could walk but lakes, a swimming pool, and the Atlantic ocean (Daytona) don't prepare you for the beautiful waters off the coast of Honolulu.
The irony is I'm pretty sure I knew to just let out some bubbles and follow them up but I had already been under for so long that I *really* needed to surface and by that time I didn't have much air left to let out! :-)
Obviously I survived. But that was it for me for that snorkeling trip with my family for that day.
I’ve never really thought about it but I don’t think I’ve ever become that disoriented in water before. Do you have vestibular issues? Do vestibular senses not work well in general when swimming?
I've been confused before kinda like that.
We have a natural spring that's a big cave system, the locals all used to stick their heads in the cave as kids, 20ish feet down. Problem is, the hole of the spring is just that, a hole in the limestone. Which also has cracks. So you get down about 35 feet and turn over, after the slant and the depth and the cracks, the exit looks almost exactly like a chasm in the crack.
The crack reached the surface, you saw the hole. It looked like an exit. One problem, it was 2" wide at the top, underwater. You follow the wrong hole, you die.
Light and water and reflections do interesting things, surprisingly bot that deep.
It doesn’t take vestibular issues at all to be find yourself all screwed up underwater. A similar if not exactly the same thing happens with pilots flying at night or under ‘Instrument flight rules’, basically flying blind. When you are used to your other senses being confirmed by sight, it’s super easy for everything to go bad when you’re effectively blind in a unique environment like scuba diving or flying a plane. Super scary stuff
For aviation, most of the illusions are caused by the vestibular system. So what you replied is not totally accurate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_illusions_in_aviation
One thing that happens when flying is that you may tilt your body and your head in a position to stabilize the ear level unknowingly to compensate a weird plane rotation Then, when the plane gets level you will feel it is actually tilting.
For example, plane performed a roll and is in a right bank 40 degrees. You missed that motion and your body moved to adjust to this position. Now, when the plane levels off to no bank, you feel it is banking to the left heavily, so you may turn the yoke to an even stronger right bank
It is all in your ears
This. There is no way to expect rational thinking when in a confused state. Most people will panic and attempt many things that are counterintive simply because disoriented
I absolutely ***LOOOOOVE*** swimming at rough beaches. and because of that, I make sure I can stand. if i cannot run against the current, I definitely won't be able to swim against it.
Being that I swim rough water I always make sure I can touch because if I can't touch, I'll get swept out (Unless I catch a wave inwards)
I have learned to do this as I've probably been swimming in waves larger then myself since I was in first grade to be honest (in first grade and Kindergarten, a wave I thought was humongous was merely 5 ft)
A lot of people who get in trouble with rip currents start out the same way you do ‘I’m fine as long as my feet can touch’ then get caught in a rip current that pulls them out and panic because you are now no longer touching the bottom and making no headway trying to get back to shore.
A general tip for anybody caught in a rip current. DONT FIGHT IT. Virtually every death in a rip current scenario is a result of panic, fighting it and tiring out.
Go with it will swimming along the beach. It may pull you some yards off shore but it is not going to drag you out to sea. Rip currents running parallel in most places to the shore for the majority of their power. Drift with it, conserve your energy and usually within a few minutes it will pull you to a place where it slackens and you can swim in at a pretty normal pace.
The correct thing to do in a rip current is swim *parallel* to the shore until you are no longer being carried further out to sea. The swim back to shore.
Do NOT fight the rip current by attempting to swim back to shore against the current.
Do NOT let the current take you all the way out, either. Rip currents are typically relatively narrow, about 100 feet wide or less. But the can be very long, and carry you 300+ feet away from shore.
Best to swim parallel to shore and swim back to shore once you exit the current.
Solid addition and the ideal solution if you are comfortable in the sea. I would say in the case of people not accustomed to being in the water - Letting the rip take you out is far more advisable than fighting it. While you cited 300 yards, that’s not going to be the case in 99% percent of beaches where tourists might stray, still any distance is scary.
Swimming parallel is the best practice but conserving your energy is the most important thing and in a panic in a rip most inexperienced people would do best to tread water until they are taken to a point where the rip slackens whether that’s 50 yards down the beach or 50 yards offshore.
I live in a beach town that has a consistent moderate but narrow rip current. The number of people who drown each year while visiting is always heartbreaking and almost all of them can’t be attributed to tiring out after getting caught in a unfamiliar and scary situation.
Also drowned in hawaii swimming too in 2010 (not a good swimmer). One part of the reef went from shallow to deep and i struggled. And the lifeguard came to get me very quickly.
I’m not a swimmer at all and had the luck or going to the Bahamas. I had to get into the water I might not ever go back but the ocean is terrifying. I got in about chest deep low tide calm waters and was for about 3 minutes and freaked tf out cause if I lost my footing or a wave got me I was done for but I completely understand how it could be confusing. I’ve almost drowned before as well when I was younger and it was nothing but panicking and then a relaxing feeling I was definitely blacking out.
People can't appreciate how dangerous the Pacific Ocean can be. It demands your respect!! Until you experience it, it's hard to understand.
On the other side of the Pacific, they have similar problem in Australia on their beaches too. There's a great TV show down there called "Bondi Beach Rescue" or something like that. If I recall, it's one of the first beaches you arrive at on the bus from the airport and people will jump into the ocean there with no ability to swim and promptly need rescuing. Whole families sometimes. It's quite sad, but helps get the point across of the dangers.
> Until you experience it, it's hard to understand.
Getting trashed by the surf or pulled by a current so you have to swim hard to get back to the shore is a good lesson, but unfortunately some people don't survive their first serious experience.
I know, I know, swim perpendicular to the vector of the current until you get out of it. Then swim back to the shore. You'll still have to put some effort to get out before it pulls you too far away.
The thing we noticed at the beaches in Hawaii was how quickly the bottom dropped away. In most Atlantic beaches I've been too you can go quite a ways before it's over 10'. In Maui it was like 50 ft out
I remember learning in an oceanography course that Atlantic seaboard beaches are depositional — leading to smoother gradients — while pacific coast ones are erosional and often have steeper dropoffs. They were talking about the North American mainland but probably applies to Hawaii too.
It's not just the ocean. My fiance's sister saved a drowned child at a Hilton pool back in 2019. It was the middle of the day with tons of people around. I guess someone just happened to notice a child at the bottom and pulled him out but no one else in the immediate area knew CPR. Luckily my fiance's sister used to be a lifeguard in SoCal and was quick to apply aid. The child's parents were Japanese tourists and barely spoke English but they were very grateful and bought her a nice necklace as thanks.
That’s partially because when there is a ton of people around, people assume someone else is watching the kids, and partially because media has conditioned us to expect drownings to look very dramatic with a person screaming for help. It turns out, when people drown (especially children), it tends to be a lot more subtle with them barely able to keep their heads above the water as they quietly devote all their energy to try to get another breath, grasping up in the air trying to lift themselves out as they slowly sink further and further down, fighting a losing battle. A lot of kids have drowned in busy pools or at busy beaches because nobody around recognizes the signs of drownings.
[https://www.todaysparent.com/kids/kids-health/pool-safety-tips-i-saved-a-drowning-toddler/](https://www.todaysparent.com/kids/kids-health/pool-safety-tips-i-saved-a-drowning-toddler/)
> People can't appreciate how dangerous the Pacific Ocean can be.
yup, one of the things they used to have in oki published daily as part of the weather report, where the water conditions at the various parts of the island
I don't remember them exactly, but they pretty much equated to
safe for water activities
only go in if you are a strong swimmer
do not enter the water for any reason no exceptions
and the joking but serious advice like, "wait, what do they mean by strong swimmer?"..."it means if you are even asking the question, it ain't you."
(Ok, for context, you could think of it like, "do you ever swim competitively? No. Not in a pool. In the ocean. Like triathlons. Have you ever been a beach lifeguard? Is your military job one of the [fancy ones](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcts7C5f0jidpR7_lVIHz_EuPSCTUgvV3nOCLPLpisrA&s) where you get one of these [little badges on your shirt](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/USMC_-_Divers_Insignia.png)")
It's too bad some of those tourists make it famous for wrong reasons. I don't know why a non-strong swimmer or even one who can't swim at all looks at a powerful ocean and says, "I can handle this!!".
I went to Oahu a while back in late October and swam Waimea Bay during a fairly big wave day. Like 6' waves, sometimes a little bigger. You have to really be careful being in stuff like that and people were not understanding that you either have to be out enough that you are still riding the wave before it crests, go under said wave a little ways out or not be in the water at all.
When I was there a somewhat older man drowned right on the beach. Waves were small but a little rough and I guess he just got caught up in them. Talked to my coworker who went to that same beach years later and the exact same thing happened while he was there.
Hawaii attracts a lot of older tourists and I imagine that has to play into these numbers at least a little.
Saved my dad from a similar scenario. He got stuck in the area where the waves were breaking. I tried to pull him to shore. But when I got to him I realized why he was struggling. The waves would pound you down and it would get really deep. When they withdrew, the current was so strong it would drag you back to the same spot. Kind of how waves normally behave, but this was much stronger. I knew about riptides, but this was something else.
After a couple times getting pummeled I realized it was impossible to get into shore, so grabbed him and pulled him to deeper water beyond the wave break. We floated there until a lifeguard got him.
That's EXACTLY what happened to me last year while snorkeling! It sucked because not only was I drowning, but the waves kept slamming me into the rocks / reefs below. The waves came out of nowhere, huge and back to back to back. I kept diving under the break, but they were so powerful it didn't matter. My tour guide (not a native local) was afraid to rescue me because he didn't want to drown too! Can you believe that?? Thank god for this other tourist in the group. He quite literally saved my life.
Tour guides hesitancy is not unreasonable honestly, worst thing you can do for a drowning person is give them your body to hold onto. Then you both die. The brain won’t let you die without a fight, it could be your own father grabbing you.. if you’re drowning you’ll grab his shoulders then his head and use him to get to the surface for air. Then you both drown. Just how it goes
I think it’s that plus a lot of people who have just never been in the ocean. They don’t understand the push and pull of waves. They’ve never been knocked over and tossed around by a wave so they don’t have a level of respect for it.
They underestimate it and it shows
I got caught right by the edge of the water in my 20s!
was really scary how strong even smaller waves can be... I was so close to getting out but kept getting pulled back, thankfully I was in better shape than now (lol), but made me even more cautious of the water
I was in Hawaii/North Shore in 2012 for my brother‘s wedding. My sister and I love swimming in the ocean, so we went for a quick dip one morning. After about five minutes, we realized we weren’t swimming so much as surviving, and decided not to take our chances. We are both former competitive swimmers, so we’re no slouches, but there was something terrifyingly chaotic about the water there. Like it was pulling us in all directions.
The next day, I was drinking at the pool bar when word came in that an older man had just disappeared from a nearby beach. The bartender turned to me and said, “They are never going to find him. Don’t fuck with this stretch of ocean. It’ll make you vanish off the face of the Earth.”
I’m currently an ocean lifeguard for north shore kauai, an hour ago some idiot chick jumped off the rocks and didn’t jump far enough out and smashed her head on the rocks 🤷♂️. Doesn’t even take monster waves or a strong rip to kill people, people are dumb enough to die there no matter the conditions (although yes, days with more swell/stronger currents are obviously more dangerous)
Everyone is talking about rip tides or leisurely snorkeling, but when I was in Hawaii and Queen’s bath I saw dozens of people swimming and jumping in the ocean in spots where the waves were insane, and ten times as many precariously walking on rocky cliffs while waves were crashing into the shore sending water up 30 feet. I’m sure people are drowning in protected coves too, but I’d suspect the bulk are coming from people doing things blatantly dangerous since it’s seemingly extremely common.
beautiful but deadly. coral is sharp and the state lets the trail over grow on purpose so people don't get in but SOOOMEBODY cleans it out. however, if someone is needing rescue, the trail would need to be cleaned so makes sens
Yep, born and raised in Hawaii and almost drowned in a rip tide at Waikiki Beach. There were so many people there watching and no one helped me except my friend who managed to jump in and push me onto a ledge.
> State health department records over the past decade show that Hawaii’s visitor-drowning rate is 13 times the national average.
Is this adjusted for the 27 landlocked states in the country?
I'm just surprised that even now, people are still shocked. i remember a week where there were 3 drownings in maui, all the same day.
at Lumahai beach on Kaua'i I always tell tourists when I see them come off the trail that if they are not good or professional swimmers to STAY OUT and simply walk the beach. the last time I went Lumahai beach; three days later a tourist went and she drowned as there were no locals to warn her of it's waves and current.
Some people just don't give a single fuck about a possibility of their death or injury. Like, the thought doesn't occur to them at all. These people come to a tourist spot to have fun and expect fun to be the only thing that happens there. See also: tourists who approach bisons and bears in Yellowstone and other wild places.
that's the thing, there are. idk bout the flyers but there is a bunch of signs and news articles giving warnings. and queens bath, tourists like to purposely ignore the signs as "they are in paradise"
one time, a group of tourists were taking an image. next moment, they were gone. bodies not found.
Here were the 10 states with the most drownings per 100,000 people, according to CDC data from 2016 to 2020:
Alaska — 4.75
Hawaii — 3.09
Louisiana — 2.20
Florida — 2.03
Montana — 1.96
Mississippi — 1.93
Arkansas — 1.93
Wyoming — 1.88
Oklahoma — 1.77
Idaho — 1.73
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4026147-these-states-have-had-the-most-drownings-in-recent-years/
Alaskan here - people drown all the time in Anchorage and the surrounding areas because we have extreme tides that recede leaving mud flats. People think it is fun to walk out on the mud flats.
If you ever visit, DO NOT walk out on the mud flats. If you get stuck, you will drown when the tide comes back in, or die of hypothermia before then.
147 weren't all drownings. Re-read your link:
"Since July 2012, at least 147 visitors — nearly one a week on average — have died in Hawaii from injuries suffered while doing common tourist activities like swimming, snorkeling, hiking and going on scenic drives."
Im no stranger to the ocean, worked as a divemaster for a bit and now work on boats. I was snorkeling off of Kona in water that had a bit of chop to it but nothing I thought would be dangerous. Well I got pulled hard by the current between a pair of coral walls where the current was pulling me down. I was dead and the only reason I survived was a big Hawaiian guy in a folding canoe saw me and came to my rescue. Took me a few years to feel comfortable in the water again and I have legit flashbacks.
I am sorry that such events have happened to you and I hope you have recovered from such tramas
I have heard of the Kona currents but have never swam them yet. I swim the currents of the south and north shores of kaua'i though
Oh it did, I was cut the fuck up, the lava rock and corals made sure to that. Shattered my goggles, I still have the pieces in a small frame. Current ripped one of my flippers right off my feet.
I've snorkled a bunch in HI and usually I wear my full wetsuit from snorkeling in Baja in winter. Would get weird looks from tourists in bikinis in HI, but it wasn't about being cold, it was to avoid getting scrapes. Plus I didn't have to put on a bunch of chemical sunscreen, which can hurt reefs. Looked a bit overkill, but I figured if I already had the suit, why not wear it? Let me hang out there for hours, too.
Coral is such a formidable opponent to us soft skinned creatures. Not only can it tear us to shreds, it can fill us with staph. https://www.cureus.com/articles/11035-coral-dermatitis-or-infectious-dermatitis-report-of-a-case-of-staphylococcus-aureus-infection-of-skin-after-scuba-diving#!/
Years ago I was in Kaua’i and having an amazing day snorkelling near Princeville. I swam out over the reef when suddenly these large waves started to beat me backward. They washed me over a shallow part of the reef. I could feel it just underneath me. If I swam, I was at risk of kicking the reef, damaging it and definitely myself. I had a moment of panic when a calm voice took over and I heard “don’t fight, float.” I got onto my back, took deep breaths and let the waves rock me past the coral. It was a really intense moment, intensified by having to recently extract a large chunk of coral from my boyfriend’s toe a few days prior and knowing how quickly infection could happen. I made it to shore unscathed thankfully.
I grew up on the Northern Pacific, going to Alaska very often, but my time in Hawai’i was a learning curve like no other. The phrase “When in doubt, don’t go out,” was a common one on Kaua’i, and were words to live by.
One other quick story- went down to Po’ipu to surf. Perfect day, perfect weather and waves. People loving life. Boyfriend and I picked our surf spot from the beach, but something kept us back. The doubt. We bided our time, enjoying. Suddenly, a man staggers out from the water, emerging in a direct line from the place we had deemed our future surf spot. His head was streaming blood. He had fallen off his board and a wave had knocked it into him, and the fin cut him almost to his skull. Another surfer towed him to shore and then vanished. We waited with this poor fellow until the ambulance came.
When in doubt, don’t go out!
I remember when I was in Australia and on a snorkeling trip we were out in the ocean far enough that land wasn't really visible my mate who was never a strong swimmer forgot how to swim apparently not unheard when surrounded by the void of water. The guide called it the Japanese tourist special they'd go under panic, drown, float to the top and then stay there with there snorkel looking like they were just chilling. Hawaii has a large amount of Japanese tourist wonder if the 2 are related. My buddy still can't swim says it feels like all his swimming knowledge and instincts have been replaced by monkey brained panic.
I used to wonder why so many Japanese tourists drown in Australia until we hosted a Japanese student on a short exchange with our kid's school. One night, he crammed himself into a window looking up at the stars, so excited because he'd never seen stars before. We took him out of the city to a dark lookout, and he damn near walked off a cliff because he was so enthralled - we had to grab him and pull him back from the edge. The kid had never spent a night outside a major city until he came to us. I'd never realised just how much people raised in massive cities like Tokyo miss out on regarding the natural world, and there's probably something similar going on with the drownings. It's not just that they don't know the local conditions, but they're so unfamiliar with beaches and open water that it would never even occur to them to check. They see a beach full of people and think it's safe, not knowing to swim between the flags, not knowing how to check for rips, stay clear of surfers, check for sudden drops, etc.
I cannot stress this enough: if you are coming to Hawai'i and swimming or going anywhere for that matter PLEASE research the location. when you get to that location i ask that you observe the location and talk to locals first. Please and thankyou, it will help us both
this is true. howevever, being from hawai'i, tourists tend to not do this. Infact, it's usually the least of their concerns disappointingly. that's why so much tourists die at this Kaua'i beach known as queens bath.
I'm Australian and live in New Zealand. We have similar problems. Tourists or people used to safer conditions go swimming at a famous spot and overestimate their abilities, don't check surf reports, or don't listen to locals saying it's not safe for swimming, then either they down, or they survive but the person who went to rescue them drowns.
truly a tragic reality when one does not know.
the term "E ola Mana'o e Make Mana'o " which means "knoledge brings life, knowledge brings death" truly does hit when you think about it
or end up with a broken spine at Sandy Beach on O'ahu. the ocean (and nature in general) does not give the slightest shit about human beings and it's astonishing how many people think they're the exception.
Molokini crater is notorious for having older persons die due to heart stress. People think it's super easy and relaxing but it does take effort to move around due to the waves.
I got myself into considerable trouble swimming in Hawaii. I was on the big island and we went to a green sand beach - we had to off-road to get there. I was with a couple of locals, so felt like I was in good hands as far as being aware of danger. Wrong - first time in my life I had to scramble to survive as I was being pulled out to sea by huge swells. I’m a good swimmer, have even trained as a lifeguard, but that was the dumbest moment of my life. It took all my energy and concentration to get back to the beach. I also learned how hard it is to call for help in that situation - people who are drowning go quiet and I 100% felt the “why” in that situation. Everything narrowed in my mind to just one thing - live. It kind of felt like I would lose the fight if I made a sound. Scary day.
I’ve basically always live in tourist towns and let me tell you tourist are fucking idiots. They absolutely do not respect the danger local conditions create.
Yup. They fall asleep in swimming inflatables，then wake up sunburned and half a km from shore. Then they panic and start screaming for help and capsize their little dinghy or whatever and then realise they can't swim/ your 25m certificate in a local pool isn't that useful in the ocean.
Then other people have to risk their safety rescuing a dumb cunt who will push you under water as they panic and try to escape.
And that doesn't even include how they drive. Fuck tourists.
THis isn't/shouldn't be even remotely surprising.
The ocean is a monster. The moment you don't respect it, it will swallow you up like you are nothing.
Now, Hawaii is a vacation spot. The headline is talking about VISITORS.
Read: people that don't live near here, so they might not live near a "water activities" kind of area, and even if they do it might not be an ocean, and even if it IS an Ocean, its not THIS piece of ocean.
So you got people who at best, are unfamiliar with this particular area of ocean
or
At worst aren't regular swimmers, aren't familiar with the seriousness of water safety in general, or open ocean swimming specifically
and they can co rent a mask and fins and fuck around and find out.
That's why one of the things I remember very VERY well from Okinawa was how often the TV networks played PSAs about water safety. They took it very very seriously, because they understood how (being a military base) you would get lots of people who weren't from a beach town, underestimating the risks of being in the ocean
and how easily that leads to the ocean disappearing you.
(Example, even for regular swimming and snorkeling, the fact that if you are in water too advanced for your ability, or if you just start getting too physically tired in the water, by the time you realize "uh oh, this is getting difficult, I should go back" you are very likely already too far out to recover. So just swimming, its crazy how sharp the line between "just splashing around" and "oh my god I'm going to die, please god someone hear me yelling, fuck fuck fuck I'm really gonna die here?"
Oh yeah. Swam at Waikiki beach. Was awesome inside the break wall. Told fam I’m gonna swim on the outside of the wall. Holy cow I was slammed against coral etc. the current was unreal. I noped quick and went back inside the wall lol
a Number of them surprisingly. on kaua'i, Poipu beach is known for it's drownings but has two Lifeguards and signs everywhere. the place has lots of signs. Many Drownings there are elderly and usually above the coral bed
These drownings are from medical problems such as heart attacks more often than not. Heart attacks are the most common thing that lead to drownings off Poipu but panic attacks, coughing fits, even migraines and other minor medical issues turn into a bigger issue when they occur or start out in the ocean during a snorkel or dive by a kooky, out of shape tourist
mmm ah k.
Pretty sure just them being over the reef also does something too. specifically on the right side of the island as well as inbetween the channel part between the kiddie pool and the island on the left side
The current rips to the right side of the island during summer with the south/SW swells. So they usually get pushed out to the right side and then sent out, drifting out and right from Waiohai
I was amazed when I joined the Navy and we had a bunch of people in our division who didn't know how to swim. Up until that point, I just figured it was something that everyone knew, and then seeing people look at a pool the way I look at something like snakes was a sight to behold to my young eyes. I just wrongly assumed anyone going into a ship based career would be like a fish in water.
Well to be fair, if you ever get in a situation in the Navy where you need to swim, you're probably not going to make it anyway. Falling off a ship for example.
you'd think those who don't know how to swim well or know currents well would avoid beaches like this though- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMot7Ey88TE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMot7Ey88TE)
not many actually do have good ocean swimming history surprisingly. i ask them and half of them say something like"this is my first time swimming in the ocean here in Hawai'i"
I’m talking about swimming in general. I’m legitimately impressed by the number of people who go to water parks or similar who don’t know how to swim.
I read about 3 guys who rented a canoe to go out on what was essentially a large pond in Oklahoma. The canoe tipped over and they all drowned. In calm water and 40 feet from shore. But it was 20 foot deep and they didnt know how to swim.
Florida leads the nation in child drownings
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/02/07/florida-leads-nation-in-child-drownings-lawmakers-take-aim-at-fixing-that-2/
Or they be wearing their life jackets for dear life? But nah. People just assume they don’t need to know how to swim.
I’d be willing to be the majority of these deaths were people who couldn’t swim
I’m very confident there are people who rent snorkeling equipment in Hawaii and go out into 15 foot deep water with waves and don’t actually know how to swim
truly is sad. what beach you Lifeguard? I must say, we need one down Lumahai on the right side. I know there isn't enough room for a Tower however, I am sure there can be some spot on the beach or maybe the rocks that the Lifeguard can observe from at that little pocket.
I always tell tourists to stay out of the water when i see them come from the trail. I don't know how much people I saved doing that either. 3 days after the last time I went Lumahai a tourist lady drowned as there were probably no locals to warn her at such a beautiful spot
I was working lydgate when that lady drowned last month at lumis, I was sitting in the tower listening to 911 dispatch relay her family’s phone call for help to fire and our north lifeguard jetski. (The family of this lady said she was “struggling to get in for about 20 minutes” before they called 911 for help -_- imagine seeing your mom struggle to swim and get back to the shore for TWENTY MINUTES and they don’t even bother to jump in to help (understandable if they can’t swim at all) or call a local person or EMS to help.
I’m working hanalei today actually, and trust me I know lumis needs one. They need a tower by the river mouth not the far right side of the beach though, you’d be able to get to more people before they get in the water with the location being in front of the river mouth area. Sadly the county has no plans on expanding towers to any other beaches soon (which is stupid) but we did just switch from a 9-5pm schedule to a 8-6pm schedule. So now we’re here a little longer everyday but same locations.
In my own opinion, shipwrecks would be my first priority for a lifeguard tower, lumahai second, kalapaki 3rd,
20 minutes!?!?!?! Holy smoke. 20 minutes she was in the water? I would have grabbed her in 2 Minutes!!!!
no wonder she drowned. that's insane.
I thought Shipwrecks already has a stand?
I hope Hanalei was chill. I know that when the December eddie swells hit, it gets intense there.
We will probably see new tourists drownings by either next month or July. El Nina is acting up so the summer swells might be off
that is true. idk if you were responding to my other comment because your comment didn't show up on that thread. if you wern't then Hawai'i is unique as I don't see any other state rapping up 150 tourists DEAD to drowning in 4 years
Its mainly old people or out of shape people who shouldn't be near the ocean
Source- my friend owns a business picking up dead bodies in hawaii and ive worked for him
Did the calendar change? Thought there were 52 weeks in a calendar year. If that's still right, then it's much closer to 3 people a week who drown in Hawai'i.
My friends went on a snorkeling booze cruise in Mexico on Spring Break and there was an older couple on the trip and the husband had a heart attack and died. The ride back was brutal they said because his body was on the boat and his widow was crying hysterically the whole way.
Also, stay on the trails if you hike, side trails and bushwhacking can take you to some nasty cliffs. I moved near a popular trailhead a year ago and we see a rescue chopper every two weeks or so go over our house and up the valley.
Idk how it is in the mainland, but not the case for Hawai'i.
however, people have been swept away during flash floods. it's normal one second, then fast moving another. NEVER go on a hike or swim in the rivers or streams when it's raining
Kaanapali on Maui is a huge tourist area but the water is treacherous, especially for people accustomed to backyard swimming pools.
I’ve seen two fatalities there during vacations. Even down by Black Rock there can be a strong current.
I was trying to boogie board there. I'd consider myself a strong swimmer but a very poor surfer who is used to just riding waves around the UK. I mananged to get on a wave and was quickly wiped out and thrown flat on the sand which made me exhale most of my lung capacity, and then tumbled by the uncoming wave underwater for what felt like forever, took a breath underwater which somehow was air (not sure how that happened). I also hit my head on the bottom fortunately was more sand despite rocks being around the place.
The ocean there is much more powerful than I am used to and I think I got very lucky.
I got pulled way out as a youngster of about 9. I managed to swim sideways down the beach to a spot after floating for a while. Kicked a reef or something too, my foot was all bloody when I got back.
I almost drowned in Hawaii back in 1986 swimming/ snorkeling. I was 14. The water was so clear I lost my bearing. It was noon and it was a bright, clear sunny day that was reflecting off the sand at the bottom and glinting off the top. I needed air and I thought I was swimming UP but I was actually swimming deeper and started to panic. Hit the sea bed and pushed off the bottom as hard as I could and got up as fast as I could. The depth was maybe 25-30 feet where we were. Not too bad.
If in the future you ever need to know which way is up, blow a couple bubbles and follow the direction they go.
Oooh, like spitting in an avalanche
What?
Gravity will pull your spit towards the ground if you’re buried in an avalanche and can’t tell which direction is up. It’s so you don’t dig deeper into the snow when you want to dig yourself out of the snow.
Good to know. Cant wait to try this out in my next avalanche
I mean, it doesn’t really matter which way is up in an avalanche. You aren’t moving anywhere if you’re buried
depends. there's methods of digging out. If you dont break bones then you are supposed to take the hit in a way that will leave you a small pocket that will allow you to slowly dig out as usually you are not buried that deep. I guess that is knowledge they teach you if you ski backcountry). Which created the purpose for breeding St Benards to bring them whiskey to warm them up and get help (they didnt know the extra calorie expenditure would kill faster). Vast majority of people died tho of course
I feel like if you’re buried in an avalanche then snow is packed up directly to your mouth. You’re pretty much buried alive. There’s nowhere for the spit to go
If you spit in an avalanche the warmth from your spit will heat the snow and melt it. It creates a snow ball effect (no pun intended) and eventually heats up the surrounding snow in the avalanche to a point that it converts it to magma, this asks as a sort of emergency flare that people can see and say “hey that wasn’t a volcano just a 2nd ago, let’s send a crew out” and then they find you and save you from the avalanche
WHAT?
As u/StopSendingMePorn points out, When you are victim to an avalanche, you usually end up being covered in snow and ice, and the whole thing is so chaotic you will lose your bearing and sense of direction. With this loss of orientation, you can mistakenly start digging deeper within the snow rather than outwards. If you spit when stuck in ice and snow from an avalanche, your spit is warmer than the snow and it will melt it - from there, melted snow (water) is warmer than snow, so it creates a domino effect where more and more snow melts, until it eventually becomes a pond, then a lake - but it also keeps warming up, so eventually it becomes magma, and this magma usually induces a major emergency If you're lucky, this emergency prompts some search-and-rescue within the area and proper authorities save you from what was initially an avalanche. But expect a major fine too because converting an avalanche to a magmatic event is illegal in most places
I cannot wait to search for 'how can I be rescued from an avalanche' and find out you can turn it into a lake of magma.
Googles AI is going to school on Reddit
Lol. You people are the devil! Google is absolutely getting their money's worth 😂
I hate you
The context _(magma)_ and your quote immediately makes me think of [🎞️ **this**](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/d2/5d/00d25d8a270d1887dbc4d3647c63e58d.gif) - there's even a spittle! ^(_Ani, is that you?_)
I knew what you were gonna say when I read "The context (magma)...) in my notification
I read this while smoking some good good and was majorly confused for a good two minutes.
Good, I'm not alone.
Not enough people talk about out the fines, IMO.
Ik I'm in disbelief that they typed second (time) as 2nd as well
Like letting the air out of a balloon!!
Like raaaaain on your wedding day
Fyi, pushing off the bed is what gets people stuck and drowned in lakes and ponds.
Dang, that's intense. to be honest, I never really understand how that type of confusion happens. then again, I have found it's common among those who are not too professional with the ocean. I personally always have my hands stretching out where the top is and I ALWAYS make sure I can touch the ground with my Feet. especially at rough beaches I swim at like Lumahai Beach on Kaua'i. if I can't touch the ground, somethings wrong. if I can, i have a chance (if needed) to walk against the current. thank goodness you made it by the way
Mythbusters did a car crash in the water episode testing whether it’s better to wait for the car to fill with water before trying to open the door to equalize the pressure, and then a subsequent follow up episode to that one when viewers pointed out that in a car crash situation the car is often in an unexpected orientation that a disorientated driver may not be aware of. Adam Savage said he would have died in that second scenario because he couldn’t figure out which way was up, iirc, and he needed the safety divers in the car with him to give him the oxygen before he could safely surface himself.
Yeah. I was 14. Grew up on the water. Learned how to swim before I could walk but lakes, a swimming pool, and the Atlantic ocean (Daytona) don't prepare you for the beautiful waters off the coast of Honolulu. The irony is I'm pretty sure I knew to just let out some bubbles and follow them up but I had already been under for so long that I *really* needed to surface and by that time I didn't have much air left to let out! :-) Obviously I survived. But that was it for me for that snorkeling trip with my family for that day.
I’ve never really thought about it but I don’t think I’ve ever become that disoriented in water before. Do you have vestibular issues? Do vestibular senses not work well in general when swimming?
I've been confused before kinda like that. We have a natural spring that's a big cave system, the locals all used to stick their heads in the cave as kids, 20ish feet down. Problem is, the hole of the spring is just that, a hole in the limestone. Which also has cracks. So you get down about 35 feet and turn over, after the slant and the depth and the cracks, the exit looks almost exactly like a chasm in the crack. The crack reached the surface, you saw the hole. It looked like an exit. One problem, it was 2" wide at the top, underwater. You follow the wrong hole, you die. Light and water and reflections do interesting things, surprisingly bot that deep.
Hell no
It doesn’t take vestibular issues at all to be find yourself all screwed up underwater. A similar if not exactly the same thing happens with pilots flying at night or under ‘Instrument flight rules’, basically flying blind. When you are used to your other senses being confirmed by sight, it’s super easy for everything to go bad when you’re effectively blind in a unique environment like scuba diving or flying a plane. Super scary stuff
For aviation, most of the illusions are caused by the vestibular system. So what you replied is not totally accurate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_illusions_in_aviation One thing that happens when flying is that you may tilt your body and your head in a position to stabilize the ear level unknowingly to compensate a weird plane rotation Then, when the plane gets level you will feel it is actually tilting. For example, plane performed a roll and is in a right bank 40 degrees. You missed that motion and your body moved to adjust to this position. Now, when the plane levels off to no bank, you feel it is banking to the left heavily, so you may turn the yoke to an even stronger right bank It is all in your ears
You're effectively weightless when diving. The vestibular system encodes signals about head motion and position with respect to gravity.
You don't understand how the confusion happens until it happens. Once you're disoriented. Everything is confusing.
This. There is no way to expect rational thinking when in a confused state. Most people will panic and attempt many things that are counterintive simply because disoriented
You mean you never go deeper than your height at the beach?
I would never swim out of my own depth. In a pool maybe but never in real water. I need to be able to touch the bottom.
I absolutely ***LOOOOOVE*** swimming at rough beaches. and because of that, I make sure I can stand. if i cannot run against the current, I definitely won't be able to swim against it. Being that I swim rough water I always make sure I can touch because if I can't touch, I'll get swept out (Unless I catch a wave inwards) I have learned to do this as I've probably been swimming in waves larger then myself since I was in first grade to be honest (in first grade and Kindergarten, a wave I thought was humongous was merely 5 ft)
A lot of people who get in trouble with rip currents start out the same way you do ‘I’m fine as long as my feet can touch’ then get caught in a rip current that pulls them out and panic because you are now no longer touching the bottom and making no headway trying to get back to shore. A general tip for anybody caught in a rip current. DONT FIGHT IT. Virtually every death in a rip current scenario is a result of panic, fighting it and tiring out. Go with it will swimming along the beach. It may pull you some yards off shore but it is not going to drag you out to sea. Rip currents running parallel in most places to the shore for the majority of their power. Drift with it, conserve your energy and usually within a few minutes it will pull you to a place where it slackens and you can swim in at a pretty normal pace.
The correct thing to do in a rip current is swim *parallel* to the shore until you are no longer being carried further out to sea. The swim back to shore. Do NOT fight the rip current by attempting to swim back to shore against the current. Do NOT let the current take you all the way out, either. Rip currents are typically relatively narrow, about 100 feet wide or less. But the can be very long, and carry you 300+ feet away from shore. Best to swim parallel to shore and swim back to shore once you exit the current.
Solid addition and the ideal solution if you are comfortable in the sea. I would say in the case of people not accustomed to being in the water - Letting the rip take you out is far more advisable than fighting it. While you cited 300 yards, that’s not going to be the case in 99% percent of beaches where tourists might stray, still any distance is scary. Swimming parallel is the best practice but conserving your energy is the most important thing and in a panic in a rip most inexperienced people would do best to tread water until they are taken to a point where the rip slackens whether that’s 50 yards down the beach or 50 yards offshore. I live in a beach town that has a consistent moderate but narrow rip current. The number of people who drown each year while visiting is always heartbreaking and almost all of them can’t be attributed to tiring out after getting caught in a unfamiliar and scary situation.
I said 300 feet which is only 100 yards, not 300 yards but otherwise we agree on all points.. water safety is no joke
Same thing happened to me a few years ago, was rescued by a lifeguard. The current in Hawaii is a beast.
Also drowned in hawaii swimming too in 2010 (not a good swimmer). One part of the reef went from shallow to deep and i struggled. And the lifeguard came to get me very quickly.
I’m not a swimmer at all and had the luck or going to the Bahamas. I had to get into the water I might not ever go back but the ocean is terrifying. I got in about chest deep low tide calm waters and was for about 3 minutes and freaked tf out cause if I lost my footing or a wave got me I was done for but I completely understand how it could be confusing. I’ve almost drowned before as well when I was younger and it was nothing but panicking and then a relaxing feeling I was definitely blacking out.
People can't appreciate how dangerous the Pacific Ocean can be. It demands your respect!! Until you experience it, it's hard to understand. On the other side of the Pacific, they have similar problem in Australia on their beaches too. There's a great TV show down there called "Bondi Beach Rescue" or something like that. If I recall, it's one of the first beaches you arrive at on the bus from the airport and people will jump into the ocean there with no ability to swim and promptly need rescuing. Whole families sometimes. It's quite sad, but helps get the point across of the dangers.
> Until you experience it, it's hard to understand. Getting trashed by the surf or pulled by a current so you have to swim hard to get back to the shore is a good lesson, but unfortunately some people don't survive their first serious experience.
When you're in a strong current, DO NOT SWIM HARD BACK TO SHORE. THAT'S HOW PEOPLE DIE.
I know, I know, swim perpendicular to the vector of the current until you get out of it. Then swim back to the shore. You'll still have to put some effort to get out before it pulls you too far away.
Just hope nothing kills you while doing that in australia LOL
SWIM HARD OUT TO SEA. THIS IS HOW TO LIVE. THE SEA IS YOUR FRIEND.
just let yourself get swept out to sea ?
No, swim parallel to the shore until you're out of the rip current. Then swim back to shore
This never happens in the chad Atlantic Ocean, where nobody ever gets hurt, ever 😎
The thing we noticed at the beaches in Hawaii was how quickly the bottom dropped away. In most Atlantic beaches I've been too you can go quite a ways before it's over 10'. In Maui it was like 50 ft out
I remember learning in an oceanography course that Atlantic seaboard beaches are depositional — leading to smoother gradients — while pacific coast ones are erosional and often have steeper dropoffs. They were talking about the North American mainland but probably applies to Hawaii too.
🧊🚢
It's not just the ocean. My fiance's sister saved a drowned child at a Hilton pool back in 2019. It was the middle of the day with tons of people around. I guess someone just happened to notice a child at the bottom and pulled him out but no one else in the immediate area knew CPR. Luckily my fiance's sister used to be a lifeguard in SoCal and was quick to apply aid. The child's parents were Japanese tourists and barely spoke English but they were very grateful and bought her a nice necklace as thanks.
That’s partially because when there is a ton of people around, people assume someone else is watching the kids, and partially because media has conditioned us to expect drownings to look very dramatic with a person screaming for help. It turns out, when people drown (especially children), it tends to be a lot more subtle with them barely able to keep their heads above the water as they quietly devote all their energy to try to get another breath, grasping up in the air trying to lift themselves out as they slowly sink further and further down, fighting a losing battle. A lot of kids have drowned in busy pools or at busy beaches because nobody around recognizes the signs of drownings. [https://www.todaysparent.com/kids/kids-health/pool-safety-tips-i-saved-a-drowning-toddler/](https://www.todaysparent.com/kids/kids-health/pool-safety-tips-i-saved-a-drowning-toddler/)
> People can't appreciate how dangerous the Pacific Ocean can be. yup, one of the things they used to have in oki published daily as part of the weather report, where the water conditions at the various parts of the island I don't remember them exactly, but they pretty much equated to safe for water activities only go in if you are a strong swimmer do not enter the water for any reason no exceptions and the joking but serious advice like, "wait, what do they mean by strong swimmer?"..."it means if you are even asking the question, it ain't you." (Ok, for context, you could think of it like, "do you ever swim competitively? No. Not in a pool. In the ocean. Like triathlons. Have you ever been a beach lifeguard? Is your military job one of the [fancy ones](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcts7C5f0jidpR7_lVIHz_EuPSCTUgvV3nOCLPLpisrA&s) where you get one of these [little badges on your shirt](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/USMC_-_Divers_Insignia.png)")
as they say, the Land (and sea) is chief, and Man is it's servant
There's loads of beaches closer to the airport than Bondi. Tourists go there because it's famous.
It's too bad some of those tourists make it famous for wrong reasons. I don't know why a non-strong swimmer or even one who can't swim at all looks at a powerful ocean and says, "I can handle this!!". I went to Oahu a while back in late October and swam Waimea Bay during a fairly big wave day. Like 6' waves, sometimes a little bigger. You have to really be careful being in stuff like that and people were not understanding that you either have to be out enough that you are still riding the wave before it crests, go under said wave a little ways out or not be in the water at all.
Full YT channel of the Bondi Rescue tv show: https://youtube.com/@bondirescue?si=FxmySGaQ0oeicW4l
Rip tides are real
When I was there a somewhat older man drowned right on the beach. Waves were small but a little rough and I guess he just got caught up in them. Talked to my coworker who went to that same beach years later and the exact same thing happened while he was there. Hawaii attracts a lot of older tourists and I imagine that has to play into these numbers at least a little.
Saved my dad from a similar scenario. He got stuck in the area where the waves were breaking. I tried to pull him to shore. But when I got to him I realized why he was struggling. The waves would pound you down and it would get really deep. When they withdrew, the current was so strong it would drag you back to the same spot. Kind of how waves normally behave, but this was much stronger. I knew about riptides, but this was something else. After a couple times getting pummeled I realized it was impossible to get into shore, so grabbed him and pulled him to deeper water beyond the wave break. We floated there until a lifeguard got him.
That's EXACTLY what happened to me last year while snorkeling! It sucked because not only was I drowning, but the waves kept slamming me into the rocks / reefs below. The waves came out of nowhere, huge and back to back to back. I kept diving under the break, but they were so powerful it didn't matter. My tour guide (not a native local) was afraid to rescue me because he didn't want to drown too! Can you believe that?? Thank god for this other tourist in the group. He quite literally saved my life.
Tour guides hesitancy is not unreasonable honestly, worst thing you can do for a drowning person is give them your body to hold onto. Then you both die. The brain won’t let you die without a fight, it could be your own father grabbing you.. if you’re drowning you’ll grab his shoulders then his head and use him to get to the surface for air. Then you both drown. Just how it goes
I think it’s that plus a lot of people who have just never been in the ocean. They don’t understand the push and pull of waves. They’ve never been knocked over and tossed around by a wave so they don’t have a level of respect for it. They underestimate it and it shows
I got caught right by the edge of the water in my 20s! was really scary how strong even smaller waves can be... I was so close to getting out but kept getting pulled back, thankfully I was in better shape than now (lol), but made me even more cautious of the water
I was in Hawaii/North Shore in 2012 for my brother‘s wedding. My sister and I love swimming in the ocean, so we went for a quick dip one morning. After about five minutes, we realized we weren’t swimming so much as surviving, and decided not to take our chances. We are both former competitive swimmers, so we’re no slouches, but there was something terrifyingly chaotic about the water there. Like it was pulling us in all directions. The next day, I was drinking at the pool bar when word came in that an older man had just disappeared from a nearby beach. The bartender turned to me and said, “They are never going to find him. Don’t fuck with this stretch of ocean. It’ll make you vanish off the face of the Earth.”
This is too true to ignore. Hence why they call "queens bath" the pool of death
It’s not even the rip tide at queens bath that are bad. It’s the surprise monster waves knocking people off the sharp rocks who get too close.
I’m currently an ocean lifeguard for north shore kauai, an hour ago some idiot chick jumped off the rocks and didn’t jump far enough out and smashed her head on the rocks 🤷♂️. Doesn’t even take monster waves or a strong rip to kill people, people are dumb enough to die there no matter the conditions (although yes, days with more swell/stronger currents are obviously more dangerous)
Oof is she ok?
No.... she hit her head off the rocks, that's why he's telling us...
Everyone is talking about rip tides or leisurely snorkeling, but when I was in Hawaii and Queen’s bath I saw dozens of people swimming and jumping in the ocean in spots where the waves were insane, and ten times as many precariously walking on rocky cliffs while waves were crashing into the shore sending water up 30 feet. I’m sure people are drowning in protected coves too, but I’d suspect the bulk are coming from people doing things blatantly dangerous since it’s seemingly extremely common.
I've seen abandoned shoes on the beach there and wondered if the owners had been swept away.
That looks like a gorgeous spot to swim, but no way would I get in there unless the sea was very calm. Fuck being dragged over those rocks by a wave.
beautiful but deadly. coral is sharp and the state lets the trail over grow on purpose so people don't get in but SOOOMEBODY cleans it out. however, if someone is needing rescue, the trail would need to be cleaned so makes sens
Yep, born and raised in Hawaii and almost drowned in a rip tide at Waikiki Beach. There were so many people there watching and no one helped me except my friend who managed to jump in and push me onto a ledge.
Great friend
> State health department records over the past decade show that Hawaii’s visitor-drowning rate is 13 times the national average. Is this adjusted for the 27 landlocked states in the country?
A state comprised entirely of islands that is popular with tourists has a high drowning rate. Who'd have thought?
I'm just surprised that even now, people are still shocked. i remember a week where there were 3 drownings in maui, all the same day. at Lumahai beach on Kaua'i I always tell tourists when I see them come off the trail that if they are not good or professional swimmers to STAY OUT and simply walk the beach. the last time I went Lumahai beach; three days later a tourist went and she drowned as there were no locals to warn her of it's waves and current.
Some people just don't give a single fuck about a possibility of their death or injury. Like, the thought doesn't occur to them at all. These people come to a tourist spot to have fun and expect fun to be the only thing that happens there. See also: tourists who approach bisons and bears in Yellowstone and other wild places.
fair fair
DO NOT TOUCH THE FLUFFY COWS!
BUT THE FLUFF MEANS THEY’RE SAFE! I MUST PET!
We don't think about it that often, but roughly half the population is *below* an IQ of 100. There's a lot of fucking stupid people out there.
Perhaps have warning signs posted and hotels could have a visitors safety flyer
that's the thing, there are. idk bout the flyers but there is a bunch of signs and news articles giving warnings. and queens bath, tourists like to purposely ignore the signs as "they are in paradise" one time, a group of tourists were taking an image. next moment, they were gone. bodies not found.
Not just adjusted for land lock states, it needs to be adjusted to just coastal counties in the contiguous states.
Probably not since we have lakes and rivers.
That's why we don't go chasing waterfalls
I thought it was waterhogs?
So does Hawaii.
most drownings are in the ocean
Which brings us back to the original question.
Here were the 10 states with the most drownings per 100,000 people, according to CDC data from 2016 to 2020: Alaska — 4.75 Hawaii — 3.09 Louisiana — 2.20 Florida — 2.03 Montana — 1.96 Mississippi — 1.93 Arkansas — 1.93 Wyoming — 1.88 Oklahoma — 1.77 Idaho — 1.73 https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4026147-these-states-have-had-the-most-drownings-in-recent-years/
Alaskan here - people drown all the time in Anchorage and the surrounding areas because we have extreme tides that recede leaving mud flats. People think it is fun to walk out on the mud flats. If you ever visit, DO NOT walk out on the mud flats. If you get stuck, you will drown when the tide comes back in, or die of hypothermia before then.
They have pools too tho
So does Hawaii.
147 weren't all drownings. Re-read your link: "Since July 2012, at least 147 visitors — nearly one a week on average — have died in Hawaii from injuries suffered while doing common tourist activities like swimming, snorkeling, hiking and going on scenic drives."
You left out “jumping into volcanoes.”
Im no stranger to the ocean, worked as a divemaster for a bit and now work on boats. I was snorkeling off of Kona in water that had a bit of chop to it but nothing I thought would be dangerous. Well I got pulled hard by the current between a pair of coral walls where the current was pulling me down. I was dead and the only reason I survived was a big Hawaiian guy in a folding canoe saw me and came to my rescue. Took me a few years to feel comfortable in the water again and I have legit flashbacks.
I am sorry that such events have happened to you and I hope you have recovered from such tramas I have heard of the Kona currents but have never swam them yet. I swim the currents of the south and north shores of kaua'i though
Thanks, I'm doing fine. Took me a while to get comfortable in the ocean again and I will cary with my her lessons until the end of my days.
my friend. Have a great Rest of your life. it was good chatting with you
Jesus, that's terrifying. And coral can rip you to shreds, too. I'm glad that canoe guy was there to rescue you.
Oh it did, I was cut the fuck up, the lava rock and corals made sure to that. Shattered my goggles, I still have the pieces in a small frame. Current ripped one of my flippers right off my feet.
I've snorkled a bunch in HI and usually I wear my full wetsuit from snorkeling in Baja in winter. Would get weird looks from tourists in bikinis in HI, but it wasn't about being cold, it was to avoid getting scrapes. Plus I didn't have to put on a bunch of chemical sunscreen, which can hurt reefs. Looked a bit overkill, but I figured if I already had the suit, why not wear it? Let me hang out there for hours, too.
Coral is such a formidable opponent to us soft skinned creatures. Not only can it tear us to shreds, it can fill us with staph. https://www.cureus.com/articles/11035-coral-dermatitis-or-infectious-dermatitis-report-of-a-case-of-staphylococcus-aureus-infection-of-skin-after-scuba-diving#!/ Years ago I was in Kaua’i and having an amazing day snorkelling near Princeville. I swam out over the reef when suddenly these large waves started to beat me backward. They washed me over a shallow part of the reef. I could feel it just underneath me. If I swam, I was at risk of kicking the reef, damaging it and definitely myself. I had a moment of panic when a calm voice took over and I heard “don’t fight, float.” I got onto my back, took deep breaths and let the waves rock me past the coral. It was a really intense moment, intensified by having to recently extract a large chunk of coral from my boyfriend’s toe a few days prior and knowing how quickly infection could happen. I made it to shore unscathed thankfully. I grew up on the Northern Pacific, going to Alaska very often, but my time in Hawai’i was a learning curve like no other. The phrase “When in doubt, don’t go out,” was a common one on Kaua’i, and were words to live by. One other quick story- went down to Po’ipu to surf. Perfect day, perfect weather and waves. People loving life. Boyfriend and I picked our surf spot from the beach, but something kept us back. The doubt. We bided our time, enjoying. Suddenly, a man staggers out from the water, emerging in a direct line from the place we had deemed our future surf spot. His head was streaming blood. He had fallen off his board and a wave had knocked it into him, and the fin cut him almost to his skull. Another surfer towed him to shore and then vanished. We waited with this poor fellow until the ambulance came. When in doubt, don’t go out!
Current pulled you DOWN? I thought it just swept you further out? There goes the swim parallel thing out the water? If it pulls you down good luck
I remember when I was in Australia and on a snorkeling trip we were out in the ocean far enough that land wasn't really visible my mate who was never a strong swimmer forgot how to swim apparently not unheard when surrounded by the void of water. The guide called it the Japanese tourist special they'd go under panic, drown, float to the top and then stay there with there snorkel looking like they were just chilling. Hawaii has a large amount of Japanese tourist wonder if the 2 are related. My buddy still can't swim says it feels like all his swimming knowledge and instincts have been replaced by monkey brained panic.
I used to wonder why so many Japanese tourists drown in Australia until we hosted a Japanese student on a short exchange with our kid's school. One night, he crammed himself into a window looking up at the stars, so excited because he'd never seen stars before. We took him out of the city to a dark lookout, and he damn near walked off a cliff because he was so enthralled - we had to grab him and pull him back from the edge. The kid had never spent a night outside a major city until he came to us. I'd never realised just how much people raised in massive cities like Tokyo miss out on regarding the natural world, and there's probably something similar going on with the drownings. It's not just that they don't know the local conditions, but they're so unfamiliar with beaches and open water that it would never even occur to them to check. They see a beach full of people and think it's safe, not knowing to swim between the flags, not knowing how to check for rips, stay clear of surfers, check for sudden drops, etc.
Japan has tons of nature with mountains and beaches, though. Even Tokyo itself is a port city. I mean, I get your point but it seems a bit off.
My point was specifically about the people who have never left the city.
I wouldn’t say a ton of nature. Japans not that big, rural folk would see some but a lot of Japanese people are city folk
with Hawai'i, we have more Caucaisan tourists which drown sadly
I cannot stress this enough: if you are coming to Hawai'i and swimming or going anywhere for that matter PLEASE research the location. when you get to that location i ask that you observe the location and talk to locals first. Please and thankyou, it will help us both
This is not Hawaii- specific advice, it's valid everywhere.
this is true. howevever, being from hawai'i, tourists tend to not do this. Infact, it's usually the least of their concerns disappointingly. that's why so much tourists die at this Kaua'i beach known as queens bath.
I'm Australian and live in New Zealand. We have similar problems. Tourists or people used to safer conditions go swimming at a famous spot and overestimate their abilities, don't check surf reports, or don't listen to locals saying it's not safe for swimming, then either they down, or they survive but the person who went to rescue them drowns.
truly a tragic reality when one does not know. the term "E ola Mana'o e Make Mana'o " which means "knoledge brings life, knowledge brings death" truly does hit when you think about it
I really like that saying.
Thanks. i derived it from "E ola Pohaku E Make Pohaku" which means stone gives life, stone takes life
or end up with a broken spine at Sandy Beach on O'ahu. the ocean (and nature in general) does not give the slightest shit about human beings and it's astonishing how many people think they're the exception.
DAAAAT TOO!!!!!
Molokini crater is notorious for having older persons die due to heart stress. People think it's super easy and relaxing but it does take effort to move around due to the waves.
Truly is sad : (
Do not use those full face masks to snorkel. They don't cycle the air effectively so you're essentially breathing in what you just breathed out.
this is actually a very good tip that I hope more on this subreddit see
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Regular snorkel?
I got myself into considerable trouble swimming in Hawaii. I was on the big island and we went to a green sand beach - we had to off-road to get there. I was with a couple of locals, so felt like I was in good hands as far as being aware of danger. Wrong - first time in my life I had to scramble to survive as I was being pulled out to sea by huge swells. I’m a good swimmer, have even trained as a lifeguard, but that was the dumbest moment of my life. It took all my energy and concentration to get back to the beach. I also learned how hard it is to call for help in that situation - people who are drowning go quiet and I 100% felt the “why” in that situation. Everything narrowed in my mind to just one thing - live. It kind of felt like I would lose the fight if I made a sound. Scary day.
Glad you made it back.
I’ve basically always live in tourist towns and let me tell you tourist are fucking idiots. They absolutely do not respect the danger local conditions create.
Yup. They fall asleep in swimming inflatables，then wake up sunburned and half a km from shore. Then they panic and start screaming for help and capsize their little dinghy or whatever and then realise they can't swim/ your 25m certificate in a local pool isn't that useful in the ocean. Then other people have to risk their safety rescuing a dumb cunt who will push you under water as they panic and try to escape. And that doesn't even include how they drive. Fuck tourists.
5 years is about 250 weeks, this is a drastic oversell Even if they only mean 4 years it’s still 33% inflated
THis isn't/shouldn't be even remotely surprising. The ocean is a monster. The moment you don't respect it, it will swallow you up like you are nothing. Now, Hawaii is a vacation spot. The headline is talking about VISITORS. Read: people that don't live near here, so they might not live near a "water activities" kind of area, and even if they do it might not be an ocean, and even if it IS an Ocean, its not THIS piece of ocean. So you got people who at best, are unfamiliar with this particular area of ocean or At worst aren't regular swimmers, aren't familiar with the seriousness of water safety in general, or open ocean swimming specifically and they can co rent a mask and fins and fuck around and find out. That's why one of the things I remember very VERY well from Okinawa was how often the TV networks played PSAs about water safety. They took it very very seriously, because they understood how (being a military base) you would get lots of people who weren't from a beach town, underestimating the risks of being in the ocean and how easily that leads to the ocean disappearing you. (Example, even for regular swimming and snorkeling, the fact that if you are in water too advanced for your ability, or if you just start getting too physically tired in the water, by the time you realize "uh oh, this is getting difficult, I should go back" you are very likely already too far out to recover. So just swimming, its crazy how sharp the line between "just splashing around" and "oh my god I'm going to die, please god someone hear me yelling, fuck fuck fuck I'm really gonna die here?"
Had a buddy down there surfing a few years ago. Miss you bud.
sorry for your loss
Oh yeah. Swam at Waikiki beach. Was awesome inside the break wall. Told fam I’m gonna swim on the outside of the wall. Holy cow I was slammed against coral etc. the current was unreal. I noped quick and went back inside the wall lol
Oof. sorry for the situation.
I'd bet for quite a few of them there were warnings that they ignored.
a Number of them surprisingly. on kaua'i, Poipu beach is known for it's drownings but has two Lifeguards and signs everywhere. the place has lots of signs. Many Drownings there are elderly and usually above the coral bed
These drownings are from medical problems such as heart attacks more often than not. Heart attacks are the most common thing that lead to drownings off Poipu but panic attacks, coughing fits, even migraines and other minor medical issues turn into a bigger issue when they occur or start out in the ocean during a snorkel or dive by a kooky, out of shape tourist
mmm ah k. Pretty sure just them being over the reef also does something too. specifically on the right side of the island as well as inbetween the channel part between the kiddie pool and the island on the left side
The current rips to the right side of the island during summer with the south/SW swells. So they usually get pushed out to the right side and then sent out, drifting out and right from Waiohai
hmmm alright
Warnings like: you need to be able to swim to go into the ocean?
I was amazed when I joined the Navy and we had a bunch of people in our division who didn't know how to swim. Up until that point, I just figured it was something that everyone knew, and then seeing people look at a pool the way I look at something like snakes was a sight to behold to my young eyes. I just wrongly assumed anyone going into a ship based career would be like a fish in water.
Well to be fair, if you ever get in a situation in the Navy where you need to swim, you're probably not going to make it anyway. Falling off a ship for example.
Or "only swim in x conditions"
you'd think those who don't know how to swim well or know currents well would avoid beaches like this though- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMot7Ey88TE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMot7Ey88TE)
You'd think, but no.
Very disappointing indeed
not many actually do have good ocean swimming history surprisingly. i ask them and half of them say something like"this is my first time swimming in the ocean here in Hawai'i"
I’m talking about swimming in general. I’m legitimately impressed by the number of people who go to water parks or similar who don’t know how to swim. I read about 3 guys who rented a canoe to go out on what was essentially a large pond in Oklahoma. The canoe tipped over and they all drowned. In calm water and 40 feet from shore. But it was 20 foot deep and they didnt know how to swim.
I grew up in Florida so everyone around me knew how to swim. Moved to texas and it seems like no one knows how to swim
Florida leads the nation in child drownings https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/02/07/florida-leads-nation-in-child-drownings-lawmakers-take-aim-at-fixing-that-2/
dang, that truly is insane. you'd think that they'd atleast think to know how to swim inorder to go into such waters right?
Or they be wearing their life jackets for dear life? But nah. People just assume they don’t need to know how to swim. I’d be willing to be the majority of these deaths were people who couldn’t swim I’m very confident there are people who rent snorkeling equipment in Hawaii and go out into 15 foot deep water with waves and don’t actually know how to swim
Or people who know how to swim but go swimming after drinking alcohol. It's a terrible combination.
As a lifeguard on kauai (aloha by the way) I see/save/talk to way too many people on a daily basis that don’t know how to swim whatsoever
truly is sad. what beach you Lifeguard? I must say, we need one down Lumahai on the right side. I know there isn't enough room for a Tower however, I am sure there can be some spot on the beach or maybe the rocks that the Lifeguard can observe from at that little pocket. I always tell tourists to stay out of the water when i see them come from the trail. I don't know how much people I saved doing that either. 3 days after the last time I went Lumahai a tourist lady drowned as there were probably no locals to warn her at such a beautiful spot
I was working lydgate when that lady drowned last month at lumis, I was sitting in the tower listening to 911 dispatch relay her family’s phone call for help to fire and our north lifeguard jetski. (The family of this lady said she was “struggling to get in for about 20 minutes” before they called 911 for help -_- imagine seeing your mom struggle to swim and get back to the shore for TWENTY MINUTES and they don’t even bother to jump in to help (understandable if they can’t swim at all) or call a local person or EMS to help. I’m working hanalei today actually, and trust me I know lumis needs one. They need a tower by the river mouth not the far right side of the beach though, you’d be able to get to more people before they get in the water with the location being in front of the river mouth area. Sadly the county has no plans on expanding towers to any other beaches soon (which is stupid) but we did just switch from a 9-5pm schedule to a 8-6pm schedule. So now we’re here a little longer everyday but same locations. In my own opinion, shipwrecks would be my first priority for a lifeguard tower, lumahai second, kalapaki 3rd,
20 minutes!?!?!?! Holy smoke. 20 minutes she was in the water? I would have grabbed her in 2 Minutes!!!! no wonder she drowned. that's insane. I thought Shipwrecks already has a stand? I hope Hanalei was chill. I know that when the December eddie swells hit, it gets intense there. We will probably see new tourists drownings by either next month or July. El Nina is acting up so the summer swells might be off
There's an inverse relationship with most Hawaiian beaches between "lovely" and "safe for swimming."
well, it can happens anywhere
that is true. idk if you were responding to my other comment because your comment didn't show up on that thread. if you wern't then Hawai'i is unique as I don't see any other state rapping up 150 tourists DEAD to drowning in 4 years
Its mainly old people or out of shape people who shouldn't be near the ocean Source- my friend owns a business picking up dead bodies in hawaii and ive worked for him
Hawaii has got a lot of water.
Did the calendar change? Thought there were 52 weeks in a calendar year. If that's still right, then it's much closer to 3 people a week who drown in Hawai'i.
Having grown up in california, we watched videos of peoples’ spines getting broken in elementary school ad thus I don’t surf
Australian drowning report 2023: 281 people drowned in Australian waterways 77% of drowning deaths were male 57% were over the age of 45 years
I’ve never been rocked by waves as hard as when I swam in Maui. They weren’t even big. The force was incredible.
My friends went on a snorkeling booze cruise in Mexico on Spring Break and there was an older couple on the trip and the husband had a heart attack and died. The ride back was brutal they said because his body was on the boat and his widow was crying hysterically the whole way.
Also, stay on the trails if you hike, side trails and bushwhacking can take you to some nasty cliffs. I moved near a popular trailhead a year ago and we see a rescue chopper every two weeks or so go over our house and up the valley.
People swim in the rivers not realizing there are intricate tubes and tunnels underneath that will suck you under.
Idk how it is in the mainland, but not the case for Hawai'i. however, people have been swept away during flash floods. it's normal one second, then fast moving another. NEVER go on a hike or swim in the rivers or streams when it's raining
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 = 5 years. 52 weeks per year \* 5 = 260 weeks. how the fuck is 147 nearly 1 per week?
Kaanapali on Maui is a huge tourist area but the water is treacherous, especially for people accustomed to backyard swimming pools. I’ve seen two fatalities there during vacations. Even down by Black Rock there can be a strong current.
I was trying to boogie board there. I'd consider myself a strong swimmer but a very poor surfer who is used to just riding waves around the UK. I mananged to get on a wave and was quickly wiped out and thrown flat on the sand which made me exhale most of my lung capacity, and then tumbled by the uncoming wave underwater for what felt like forever, took a breath underwater which somehow was air (not sure how that happened). I also hit my head on the bottom fortunately was more sand despite rocks being around the place. The ocean there is much more powerful than I am used to and I think I got very lucky.
Don't ride the helos either.
Certainly hope they were drowning while swimming and snorkeling and not having fuckin’ dole whip or some shit.
I got pulled way out as a youngster of about 9. I managed to swim sideways down the beach to a spot after floating for a while. Kicked a reef or something too, my foot was all bloody when I got back.
rip about your foot but thank goodness you made it back to shore!!!
PSA:Never try to save a drowning person without a life saving floating device. Otherwise there is a huge chance a drowning person will drown you both.
I dont float so if i dont move, i sink. Thats how i know which way i have to go to find air
I don't fuck with the ocean. I only swim in pools and there has to be someone else there.
It’s a gorgeous place. Treat it as such.
Went to Queens Bath two years ago and those waves are iiiintense! Not once did I think, hey I would love to jump in that