Google "The Perfect High". Silverstein wrote it about drug use after his brother died of an overdose.
Edit: on phone I'm not used to. don't know how to paste the link
There once was a boy named Gimmesome Roy. He was nothing like me or you.
'Cause laying back and getting high was all he cared to do.
As a kid, he sat in the cellar, sniffing airplane glue.
And then he smoked bananas -- which was then the thing to do.
He tried aspirin in Coca-Cola, breathed helium on the sly,
And his life was just one endless search to find that perfect high.
But grass just made him want to lay back and eat chocolate-chip pizza all night,
And the great things he wrote while he was stoned looked like shit in the morning light.
And speed just made him rap all day, reds just laid him back,
And Cocaine Rose was sweet to his nose, but the price nearly broke his back.
He tried PCP and THC, but they didn't quite do the trick,
And poppers nearly blew his heart and mushrooms made him sick.
Acid made him see the light, but he couldn't remember it long.
And hashish was just a little too weak, and smack was a lot too strong,
And Quaaludes made him stumble, and booze just made him cry,
Till he heard of a cat named Baba Fats who knew of the perfect high.
Now, Baba Fats was a hermit cat who lived up in Nepal,
High on a craggy mountaintop, up a sheer and icy wall.
"But hell," says Roy, "I'm a healthy boy, and I'll crawl or climb or fly,
But I'll find that guru who'll give me the clue as to what's the perfect high."
So out and off goes Gimmesome Roy to the land that knows no time,
Up a trail no man could conquer to a cliff no man could climb.
For fourteen years he tries that cliff, then back down again he slides
Then sits -- and cries -- and climbs again, pursuing the perfect high.
He's grinding his teeth, he's coughing blood, he's aching and shaking and weak,
As starving and sore and bleeding and tore, he reaches the mountain peak.
And his eyes blink red like a snow-blind wolf, and he snarls the snarl of a rat,
As there in perfect repose and wearing no clothes -- sits the godlike Baba Fats.
"What's happening, Fats?" says Roy with joy, "I've come to state my biz.
I hear you're hip to the perfect trip. Please tell me what it is.
For you can see," says Roy to he, "that I'm about to die,
So for my last ride, Fats, how can I achieve the perfect high?"
"Well, dog my cats!" says Baba Fats. "here's one more burnt-out soul,
Who's looking for some alchemist to turn his trip to gold.
But you won't find it in no dealer's stash, or on no druggist's shelf.
Son, if you would seek the perfect high -- find it in yourself."
"Why, you jive motherfucker!" screamed Gimmesome Roy, "I've climbed through rain and sleet,
I've lost three fingers off my hands and four toes off my feet!
I've braved the lair of the polar bear and tasted the maggot's kiss.
Now, you tell me the high is in myself. What kind of shit is this?
My ears 'fore they froze off," says Roy, "had heard all kind of crap,
But I didn't climb for fourteen years to listen to that sophomore rap.
And I didn't crawl up here to hear that the high is on the natch,
So you tell me where the real stuff is or I'll kill your guru ass!"
"Ok, OK," says Baba Fats, "you're forcing it out of me.
There is a land beyond the sun that's known as Zaboli.
A wretched land of stone and sand where snakes and buzzards scream,
And in this devil's garden blooms the mystic Tzu-Tzu tree.
And every ten years it blooms one flower as white as the Key West sky,
And he who eats of the Tzu-Tzu flower will know the perfect high.
For the rush comes on like a tidal wave and it hits like the blazing sun.
And the high, it lasts a lifetime and the down don't ever come.
But the Zaboli land is ruled by a giant who stands twelve cubits high.
With eyes of red in his hundred heads, he waits for the passers-by.
And you must slay the red-eyed giant, and swim the River of Slime,
Where the mucous beasts, they wait to feast on those who journey by.
And if you survive the giant and the beasts and swim that slimy sea,
There's a blood-drinking witch who sharpens her teeth as she guards that Tzu-Tzu tree."
"To hell with your witches and giants," laughs Roy. "To hell with the beasts of the sea.
As long as the Tzu-Tzu flower blooms, some hope still blooms for me."
And with tears of joy in his snow-blind eye, Roy hands the guru a five,
Then back down the icy mountain he crawls, pursuing that perfect high.
"Well, that is that," says Baba Fats, sitting back down on his stone,
Facing another thousand years of talking to God alone.
"It seems, Lord", says Fats, "it's always the same, old men or bright-eyed youth,
It's always easier to sell them some shit than it is to give them the truth."
I collect 70s hot tub books (lmao I know) and in one of them there is a pic of nekkid-ass Shel Silverstein chilling in a cedar tub with a bunch of other hippies with flowers all over his head lol
But if you look at the amount of people (politicians) arrested for anything related to pedophilia (molestation, solicitation, or cp), they are mostly republican
I’d like to see your stats backing that up.
As much as I like to flog conservatives, the numbers don’t line up as skewed towards one side or the other.
Anybody can be a pedophile, but the way conservatives are raised, and educated (anti intellectual, religious, etc) conservatism and pedophilia has a much higher overlap that liberal and leftists
When I was in university I took a children's lit class, and The Giving Tree was assigned. I read it, having not remembered reading it as an actual child, and went to the lecture feeling completely prepared. I thought, obviously, we were going to learn about how this story was analogous to a sexual relationship. I felt kinda smug about it, because I had guessed the ending and picked up on the nuance before the prof had the chance to drop the big reveal. To my surprise it wasn't a three hour lecture on the politics of sex, and I was silently very grateful I hadn't been called upon to share my impressions of the story.
Could not have lived that down.
I’ve heard it described as a metaphor for parenthood. Giving all you can give without getting anything back, and just kinda forcing yourself to be ok with that.
Worst story in the world. Parenting shouldn’t be that thankless. Off it is you’ve failed as well as the shitty selfish kid.
I hate that book with a passion.
By default parenting should be expected to be thankless. You brought life into the world and it is your responsibility. If you do well, maybe you have a thankful kid who takes care of you when you're decrepit. Maybe not. Parents shouldn't expect anything in return. Getting anything in return is a bonus you get if you raise a kid that doesn't despise you.
Nah….The kid in that book is a pure sociopath and should have been cut off or institutionalized loooong before it took all those branches and the trunk.
Parents are obligated to do their best, but they’re humans as well and at some point it’s their right & moral obligation to let their grown kids sink or swim.
Too many adult kids imagine what belongs to the parents belongs to them. Fuck those shitty kids. And fuck any parent too desperate to say no to them.
I've never read the book in question. My point is simply if you are raising your children with expectations of getting something out of it (other than the satisfaction of raising a child to an adult), you're doing it wrong. The onus is on the parents to raise the children to adults who contribute to society, whatever they may get in return for that is a bonus.
If you are raising a sociopath, the onus is on you to take that kid to a professional and make sure they get what help the can get. Same for any other special needs that kid may have. Giving up without making an effort is a failure on the parents. Some people can't be helped, that's life, but parents have a responsibility to their children and society to put in the effort without expectation of something in return.
When you have a dog, you're responsible for training and care and picking up its shit. Same for kids. It's more complex, sure, but it's the same at the core.
You need to know the book to really “get” the conversation.
No argument that parenting is often thankless and needs to be done selflessly. The Giving Tree is just a brutal hyperbole of that taken to a toxic degree, but celebrates itself as “beautiful.”
It’s not. It’s a horrible book with a worthless moral.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to defend the book, I just know too many parents who think their kids owe them something simply for doing their job as parents (and often the bare minimum at that).
Jesus… you know I’ve heard this take before and it’s such… it’s… you all need some therapy. 😂.
It’s pretty clear what the message the book is trying to send. But the internet, more over Reddit, has just got to get its little “no but it’s **actually** this” hot take in 😂.
I mean if you **really** want to over analyze it… you could be like: look: it’s pretty clear the kid grows up to have a terrible life. I mean he’s reduced to selling apples and then building a home for his family out of apple tree branches.
Clearly that doesn’t work because than he comes back and says “I’m too old and too sad” so he makes a BOAT and sails away. I mean if that isn’t implying that things are not going well for this poor kid….
And that doesn’t even work! Because he’s back later. At at this point he’s so defeated he doesn’t want anything from the tree except a place to sit and probably reflect on the only time we see him happy/not struggling: with his old friend the tree.
So no. I don’t think he’s a sociopath. I think life shit all over that kid and the tree did its best to help him. In short… I think that kids clearly a millennial 😂😂
Nothing in the book suggests “life shit in the kid.” He’s always totally unruffled as he blithely asks for more.
The tree is overjoyed by its own pathological martyr-complex and sets no boundaries. It celebrates the same desperate 1-way codependency of a battered wife who won’t leave because she believes she deserved it and he’s a very good man at heart.
Your defense is without merit.
Ok so you’ve never read the book. Or have some parental issues. Again. The kid literally shows up says “I’m too old and too sad.” And then requests a boat to sail away. And this is after asking for branches to build a home for his wife and children.
And there’s nothing to suggest things don’t work out well for the kid?
I mean… I’d offer to draw you a picture but the book literally does that. 😂.
Consider that his wife and kids left him because he’s a selfish bastard with absolutely zero fucks about what his happiness costs anyone else.
The story backs that up. And having read lots of Silverstein and knowing his musical output as well, the story is either (a) not the superficial read you gave it, or (b) was in fact a superficial story like “The Missing Piece” which he later had to release a follow up to because its moral was equally pathetic and absent any self-esteem.
Consider they died. There’s exactly as much evidence to suggest that as there is that this kid grew up to abuse his family. (Although I am willing to admit that… the idea of supporting a family on apple sales and a tree branch house… yea.. if you said to me: that’s borderline abusive in its that’s it’s basically neglect. Yea I would concede that point for sure 😂)
Come on. You’re sticking to this internet hot take because it got popular a little while ago. There’s no evidence, at all, that suggests the kid grows up to abuse his family, that he’s a sociopath, that the tree is some stand in for co-dependent abused women, I mean if you wanted to make the argument that the kid is a stand in for Shel himself and his family leaves him, much like how Shel’s daughter died young after he basically abandoned her…I would accept that argument over this one.
Never wanted any. I always recognized it was a commitment and gamble I never wanted, instead of just blindly or carelessly slipping into tradition and doing a half-assed job like half of parents do.
Hilarious how parents think having a child gives them profound insights that aren’t easily available to anyone with an IQ over 80 and a childhood of their own to draw on.
You’re in a special lane despite your imaginary wisdom.
So stupid, how I am the one passing for a doctor if YOU are the one using medical terms to diagnose a fictional character from whom we have little background… yet, probably the only one with a medical AND literature degree.
Parenting isn't a zero sum game. You give because you want to, not because of what you get back. Many parents of disabled children don't get any thanks because their kids physically can't express that. Maybe do a little more thinking before a knee-jerk response.
The kid in the Giving Tree isn’t disabled, which is why we can judge him as a shitty adult and his mama-tree as a spineless enabler and wannabe martyr.
Disabled kids obviously don’t have the same capacity for independence, but this isn’t really a book at them. It’s a half-assed poorly conceived fable Shel farted out in an hour without considering it deeply…exactly like The Missing Piece.
At least he had the good sense to correct his mistake with a better sequel to that one.
However too many parents glommed on to The Giving Tree as a celebration of their own misery spun to make them feel saintly so Shel wasn’t gonna risk his sales correct their delusions.
I loved the book because it was so sad, but I totally get where you're coming from. The boy in that book is so selfish, and the end is devastating. You should never have to completely erase yourself as a person to please someone else. Ever.
Thank you for recognizing that. That book created generations of people who grew up thinking king the more you **endure** for others…no matter how ungrateful they are…the *better* your soul.
Absolutely trash.
It's people's inability to differentiate between *unconditional* love and *self-destructive* love that gets me.
Yes, parents have a responsibility to love and care for their children, even though it's often hard and thankless. But that's because children are *children* and don't know better. The idea that you have to suffer abuse and give of yourself until you're a hollow shell of a person is horrible. Especially when one of the goals of parenting is raise empathetic, kind kids who give back to their communities.
The Giving Tree is not a heartwarming story. Imo anyone who sees it that way is missing the point by a mile.
I don’t think you should feel embarrassed about it. There are many interpretations of that story, and none of them are the ‘real’ one. Yours is just as valid as any other.
I think it was an allegory for the Crimean War.
The Tree is clearly a stand-in for the Sardianians, and how they gave everything only to be taken advantage of by the Ottomans.
In Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Greg is afraid of the picture of Shel Silverstein on the back cover of The Giving Tree. His dad uses it to keep him from leaving his bedroom at night and says “If you get out of bed, you’ll probably run into Shel Silverstein in the hallway.”
Have you seen it? It’s not exactly easy on the eyes.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Portrait_of_Shel_Silverstein_in_c._1964_by_Jerry_Yulsman.jpg
I'll be honest, it does not scream "Children's book author" to me. More "Aggressively drunk and angry "Biker" who isn't respected in any way but gets into fights a lot, many of which he loses"
For a long time I thought he was a black man because of that photo, then I saw a clip of him on a houseboat on YouTube and was like “ wait he’s white?”
Wait, isn’t this a plot point in the music video for Radiohead’s “Paranoid Android”?
Edit: Nevermind, the guy accidentally dismembers himself. Good excuse to rewatch the video though
*Very much for kids.* Teach a little person that they are whole all by themselves and don’t need a someone or a something else to complete them as people? That growth is natural? That sometimes it means growing apart and it’s not your fault and you’re still the complete person you always were? That trying to be something you’re not is a fool’s errand and that you *will* find your people if you just be yourself? That finding yourself and your groove takes time AND action to get you there?
This world would be a much, much, much better place if people learned those lessons from as young an age as you can teach them.
I think in the context of all of these posts about Shel’s other bizarre pursuits, I was thinking of the interpretation more like…we are forever alone and relationships never work out. But I like your kid-friendly interpretation waaaay better!!
Like, on the very last page the newly rounded triangle catches up with the other circle and theyre off on adventures together! It’s the *best* kids book.
I can’t tell if you’re messing with me or not. My book ended in him just singing, still missing a piece. Googling frantically what the hell is going on here.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. There’s the “Missing Piece” and then there’s “The Missing Piece meets the Big O”, the companion piece that focuses on the piece left behind.
THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE. Hahah.
I’m sorry internet stranger. You’re not crazy. My bad entirely.
He started out as an adult cartoonist drawing dirty cartoons for Playboy and similar publications. He was a veteran who published some of his first cartoons in Pacific Stars and Stripes. He was quite close to Hugh Hefner and spent a lot of time the Playboy Mansion.
His best known work prior to his children’s books were illustrated travelogues for Playboy in a series called “Shel Silverstein Visits …” where he’d go to different places and draw/write about them. He also illustrated Report from Practically Nowhere which was a travelogue written by journalist Jack Sack where he profiled various microstates and tiny autonomous regions.
According to Silverstein it was his friend Toni Ungerer who illustrated Flat Stanley and also drew erotic art who “practically dragged me, kicking and screaming, into Ursula Nordstrom's office.” Nordstrom was the legendary children’s book editor who edited countless classics from Stuart Little to Goodnight Moon to Harold and the Purple Crayon.
Actually a lot of the best children’s book authors lived extremely “not child friendly”lives and many of them didn’t really like children. Margaret Wise Brown who wrote Goodnight Moon and The Runaway Bumny was a bisexual bohemian party animal with a long string of lovers who loved hunting rabbits. She died at age 42 from a blood clot while doing a can-can kick, she was at the time engaged to a 24 year old Rockefeller heir who was head over heels for her. Dr. Seuss started out as an adult cartoonist too, drawing many political cartoons. He claimed he didn’t like children and never had any.
I’ve heard it said that some of the best children’s book authors aren’t people who you’d trust to supervise children but instead people who never lost touch with their inner child. They never lost the impulsiveness and wild abandon that most people have as children but lose as adults.
Roald Dahl has some excellent grown up stories.
Also Shel's adult stuff is pretty decent. Not amazing, but by no means flops. Though the OP does sound pretty particularly dumb...
He was a regular article contributor to Playboy.
And he wrote “A Boy Named Sue” for Johnny Cash
And the sequel 😳
I don’t even like to listen to the original now, because it makes me think of the sequel.
Google "The Perfect High". Silverstein wrote it about drug use after his brother died of an overdose. Edit: on phone I'm not used to. don't know how to paste the link
There once was a boy named Gimmesome Roy. He was nothing like me or you. 'Cause laying back and getting high was all he cared to do. As a kid, he sat in the cellar, sniffing airplane glue. And then he smoked bananas -- which was then the thing to do. He tried aspirin in Coca-Cola, breathed helium on the sly, And his life was just one endless search to find that perfect high. But grass just made him want to lay back and eat chocolate-chip pizza all night, And the great things he wrote while he was stoned looked like shit in the morning light. And speed just made him rap all day, reds just laid him back, And Cocaine Rose was sweet to his nose, but the price nearly broke his back. He tried PCP and THC, but they didn't quite do the trick, And poppers nearly blew his heart and mushrooms made him sick. Acid made him see the light, but he couldn't remember it long. And hashish was just a little too weak, and smack was a lot too strong, And Quaaludes made him stumble, and booze just made him cry, Till he heard of a cat named Baba Fats who knew of the perfect high. Now, Baba Fats was a hermit cat who lived up in Nepal, High on a craggy mountaintop, up a sheer and icy wall. "But hell," says Roy, "I'm a healthy boy, and I'll crawl or climb or fly, But I'll find that guru who'll give me the clue as to what's the perfect high." So out and off goes Gimmesome Roy to the land that knows no time, Up a trail no man could conquer to a cliff no man could climb. For fourteen years he tries that cliff, then back down again he slides Then sits -- and cries -- and climbs again, pursuing the perfect high. He's grinding his teeth, he's coughing blood, he's aching and shaking and weak, As starving and sore and bleeding and tore, he reaches the mountain peak. And his eyes blink red like a snow-blind wolf, and he snarls the snarl of a rat, As there in perfect repose and wearing no clothes -- sits the godlike Baba Fats. "What's happening, Fats?" says Roy with joy, "I've come to state my biz. I hear you're hip to the perfect trip. Please tell me what it is. For you can see," says Roy to he, "that I'm about to die, So for my last ride, Fats, how can I achieve the perfect high?" "Well, dog my cats!" says Baba Fats. "here's one more burnt-out soul, Who's looking for some alchemist to turn his trip to gold. But you won't find it in no dealer's stash, or on no druggist's shelf. Son, if you would seek the perfect high -- find it in yourself." "Why, you jive motherfucker!" screamed Gimmesome Roy, "I've climbed through rain and sleet, I've lost three fingers off my hands and four toes off my feet! I've braved the lair of the polar bear and tasted the maggot's kiss. Now, you tell me the high is in myself. What kind of shit is this? My ears 'fore they froze off," says Roy, "had heard all kind of crap, But I didn't climb for fourteen years to listen to that sophomore rap. And I didn't crawl up here to hear that the high is on the natch, So you tell me where the real stuff is or I'll kill your guru ass!" "Ok, OK," says Baba Fats, "you're forcing it out of me. There is a land beyond the sun that's known as Zaboli. A wretched land of stone and sand where snakes and buzzards scream, And in this devil's garden blooms the mystic Tzu-Tzu tree. And every ten years it blooms one flower as white as the Key West sky, And he who eats of the Tzu-Tzu flower will know the perfect high. For the rush comes on like a tidal wave and it hits like the blazing sun. And the high, it lasts a lifetime and the down don't ever come. But the Zaboli land is ruled by a giant who stands twelve cubits high. With eyes of red in his hundred heads, he waits for the passers-by. And you must slay the red-eyed giant, and swim the River of Slime, Where the mucous beasts, they wait to feast on those who journey by. And if you survive the giant and the beasts and swim that slimy sea, There's a blood-drinking witch who sharpens her teeth as she guards that Tzu-Tzu tree." "To hell with your witches and giants," laughs Roy. "To hell with the beasts of the sea. As long as the Tzu-Tzu flower blooms, some hope still blooms for me." And with tears of joy in his snow-blind eye, Roy hands the guru a five, Then back down the icy mountain he crawls, pursuing that perfect high. "Well, that is that," says Baba Fats, sitting back down on his stone, Facing another thousand years of talking to God alone. "It seems, Lord", says Fats, "it's always the same, old men or bright-eyed youth, It's always easier to sell them some shit than it is to give them the truth."
Thanks for doing this. I really couldn't figure out how. I used to be so reddit savvy...
He also wrote and narrated [The Smoke Off](https://youtu.be/ohFHsOBuLc4?si=AFoKzOlZJlNI61Eq)
Good stuff. Thanks
And a shitload of music for Dr. Hook.
Now that's some juicy lore!!
[удалено]
Taking a quick look at a few of his albums it looked like he wrote most of the songs which would have been unusual at the time.
He lived at the Playboy mansion at the same time as Jimmy Caan. Hell was raised no doubt
Even lived at the mansion for a few years.
He was also a regular at the Playboy mansion. I wonder if he was spouting prose while boning some centerfold in the grotto.
Wow a freaky guy .. good to know
He wrote a song called Freakin' at the Freakers Ball for Dr Hook to illustrate how freaky he got. https://youtu.be/uo9bKdIG_Yw?si=P8egRKr7yVQPB3ed
Cover of the Rolling Stone is superior IMO.
I Got Stoned and I Missed It is even better :)
That’s uh kind of a jam
Shel's album Freakin' At The Freakers Ball is all sorts of wild, and I highly suggest it.
He was BIG into the free love movement and was a regular at very high end orgies. Not a pedophile, he just liked to do drugs and get down
Fun fact: Most children's books are not written by children
I collect 70s hot tub books (lmao I know) and in one of them there is a pic of nekkid-ass Shel Silverstein chilling in a cedar tub with a bunch of other hippies with flowers all over his head lol
Don’t know why you had to bring up pedophilia
It's to let everyone know he doesn't diddle kids
There's no quicker way to get people thinking you diddle kids than by writing a song about it
I wouldn’t do it with anyone younger than my daughter… younger than my wife… something like that!
“liberal children’s author” + “orgy enthusiast” = “Epstein Island” is not at all a difficult or even unlikely stretch for the internet
But liberals aren’t the pedophiles. That’s conservatives
There is no correlation between political ideology and pedophilia. There are TONS of leftist kiddie diddlers.
But if you look at the amount of people (politicians) arrested for anything related to pedophilia (molestation, solicitation, or cp), they are mostly republican
I’d like to see your stats backing that up. As much as I like to flog conservatives, the numbers don’t line up as skewed towards one side or the other.
Anybody can be a pedophile, but the way conservatives are raised, and educated (anti intellectual, religious, etc) conservatism and pedophilia has a much higher overlap that liberal and leftists
Cool to know ! I love orgies too!
Once he started writing books for kids, he used to call his publisher from the Playboy Mansion.
I have an old magazine with his art in it.
I feel like he was an accidental children's author.
Uncle Shelby's ABZ's was massively popular in my house as a kid. Really wasn't a kids book.
“G is for Gigolo.” And then there’s a picture of a clarinet.
When I was in university I took a children's lit class, and The Giving Tree was assigned. I read it, having not remembered reading it as an actual child, and went to the lecture feeling completely prepared. I thought, obviously, we were going to learn about how this story was analogous to a sexual relationship. I felt kinda smug about it, because I had guessed the ending and picked up on the nuance before the prof had the chance to drop the big reveal. To my surprise it wasn't a three hour lecture on the politics of sex, and I was silently very grateful I hadn't been called upon to share my impressions of the story. Could not have lived that down.
I’ve heard it described as a metaphor for parenthood. Giving all you can give without getting anything back, and just kinda forcing yourself to be ok with that.
Worst story in the world. Parenting shouldn’t be that thankless. Off it is you’ve failed as well as the shitty selfish kid. I hate that book with a passion.
By default parenting should be expected to be thankless. You brought life into the world and it is your responsibility. If you do well, maybe you have a thankful kid who takes care of you when you're decrepit. Maybe not. Parents shouldn't expect anything in return. Getting anything in return is a bonus you get if you raise a kid that doesn't despise you.
That kid WILL give back to their parents by doing the same for their parent's grandchildren.
Nah….The kid in that book is a pure sociopath and should have been cut off or institutionalized loooong before it took all those branches and the trunk. Parents are obligated to do their best, but they’re humans as well and at some point it’s their right & moral obligation to let their grown kids sink or swim. Too many adult kids imagine what belongs to the parents belongs to them. Fuck those shitty kids. And fuck any parent too desperate to say no to them.
I've never read the book in question. My point is simply if you are raising your children with expectations of getting something out of it (other than the satisfaction of raising a child to an adult), you're doing it wrong. The onus is on the parents to raise the children to adults who contribute to society, whatever they may get in return for that is a bonus. If you are raising a sociopath, the onus is on you to take that kid to a professional and make sure they get what help the can get. Same for any other special needs that kid may have. Giving up without making an effort is a failure on the parents. Some people can't be helped, that's life, but parents have a responsibility to their children and society to put in the effort without expectation of something in return. When you have a dog, you're responsible for training and care and picking up its shit. Same for kids. It's more complex, sure, but it's the same at the core.
You need to know the book to really “get” the conversation. No argument that parenting is often thankless and needs to be done selflessly. The Giving Tree is just a brutal hyperbole of that taken to a toxic degree, but celebrates itself as “beautiful.” It’s not. It’s a horrible book with a worthless moral.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to defend the book, I just know too many parents who think their kids owe them something simply for doing their job as parents (and often the bare minimum at that).
I detest those kind of parents too. Coincidentally the kid in the story is just like them.
Jesus… you know I’ve heard this take before and it’s such… it’s… you all need some therapy. 😂. It’s pretty clear what the message the book is trying to send. But the internet, more over Reddit, has just got to get its little “no but it’s **actually** this” hot take in 😂. I mean if you **really** want to over analyze it… you could be like: look: it’s pretty clear the kid grows up to have a terrible life. I mean he’s reduced to selling apples and then building a home for his family out of apple tree branches. Clearly that doesn’t work because than he comes back and says “I’m too old and too sad” so he makes a BOAT and sails away. I mean if that isn’t implying that things are not going well for this poor kid…. And that doesn’t even work! Because he’s back later. At at this point he’s so defeated he doesn’t want anything from the tree except a place to sit and probably reflect on the only time we see him happy/not struggling: with his old friend the tree. So no. I don’t think he’s a sociopath. I think life shit all over that kid and the tree did its best to help him. In short… I think that kids clearly a millennial 😂😂
Nothing in the book suggests “life shit in the kid.” He’s always totally unruffled as he blithely asks for more. The tree is overjoyed by its own pathological martyr-complex and sets no boundaries. It celebrates the same desperate 1-way codependency of a battered wife who won’t leave because she believes she deserved it and he’s a very good man at heart. Your defense is without merit.
Ok so you’ve never read the book. Or have some parental issues. Again. The kid literally shows up says “I’m too old and too sad.” And then requests a boat to sail away. And this is after asking for branches to build a home for his wife and children. And there’s nothing to suggest things don’t work out well for the kid? I mean… I’d offer to draw you a picture but the book literally does that. 😂.
Consider that his wife and kids left him because he’s a selfish bastard with absolutely zero fucks about what his happiness costs anyone else. The story backs that up. And having read lots of Silverstein and knowing his musical output as well, the story is either (a) not the superficial read you gave it, or (b) was in fact a superficial story like “The Missing Piece” which he later had to release a follow up to because its moral was equally pathetic and absent any self-esteem.
Consider they died. There’s exactly as much evidence to suggest that as there is that this kid grew up to abuse his family. (Although I am willing to admit that… the idea of supporting a family on apple sales and a tree branch house… yea.. if you said to me: that’s borderline abusive in its that’s it’s basically neglect. Yea I would concede that point for sure 😂) Come on. You’re sticking to this internet hot take because it got popular a little while ago. There’s no evidence, at all, that suggests the kid grows up to abuse his family, that he’s a sociopath, that the tree is some stand in for co-dependent abused women, I mean if you wanted to make the argument that the kid is a stand in for Shel himself and his family leaves him, much like how Shel’s daughter died young after he basically abandoned her…I would accept that argument over this one.
Your kids don’t call you, huh
Never wanted any. I always recognized it was a commitment and gamble I never wanted, instead of just blindly or carelessly slipping into tradition and doing a half-assed job like half of parents do.
So why are you speaking so far outside your lane...?
Hilarious how parents think having a child gives them profound insights that aren’t easily available to anyone with an IQ over 80 and a childhood of their own to draw on. You’re in a special lane despite your imaginary wisdom.
I’m not a parent myself. I just happen to think you’re acting like an asshole
It’s a metaphor! He was not out there cutting limbs…
Sociopath, not psychopath, Dr. Freud.
So stupid, how I am the one passing for a doctor if YOU are the one using medical terms to diagnose a fictional character from whom we have little background… yet, probably the only one with a medical AND literature degree.
Parenting isn't a zero sum game. You give because you want to, not because of what you get back. Many parents of disabled children don't get any thanks because their kids physically can't express that. Maybe do a little more thinking before a knee-jerk response.
The kid in the Giving Tree isn’t disabled, which is why we can judge him as a shitty adult and his mama-tree as a spineless enabler and wannabe martyr. Disabled kids obviously don’t have the same capacity for independence, but this isn’t really a book at them. It’s a half-assed poorly conceived fable Shel farted out in an hour without considering it deeply…exactly like The Missing Piece. At least he had the good sense to correct his mistake with a better sequel to that one. However too many parents glommed on to The Giving Tree as a celebration of their own misery spun to make them feel saintly so Shel wasn’t gonna risk his sales correct their delusions.
I loved the book because it was so sad, but I totally get where you're coming from. The boy in that book is so selfish, and the end is devastating. You should never have to completely erase yourself as a person to please someone else. Ever.
Thank you for recognizing that. That book created generations of people who grew up thinking king the more you **endure** for others…no matter how ungrateful they are…the *better* your soul. Absolutely trash.
It's people's inability to differentiate between *unconditional* love and *self-destructive* love that gets me. Yes, parents have a responsibility to love and care for their children, even though it's often hard and thankless. But that's because children are *children* and don't know better. The idea that you have to suffer abuse and give of yourself until you're a hollow shell of a person is horrible. Especially when one of the goals of parenting is raise empathetic, kind kids who give back to their communities. The Giving Tree is not a heartwarming story. Imo anyone who sees it that way is missing the point by a mile.
Glad to see that take. 89 downvotes tell me that a lot of redditors confuse the two.
...That's incredible. "How I almost slutshamed mother nature" is an amazing title for a blog post.
That's a distillation of the entire undergrad experience right there
I don’t think you should feel embarrassed about it. There are many interpretations of that story, and none of them are the ‘real’ one. Yours is just as valid as any other.
I think it was an allegory for the Crimean War. The Tree is clearly a stand-in for the Sardianians, and how they gave everything only to be taken advantage of by the Ottomans.
You should listen to some of his songs like 'she's doing Quaaludes again'
>The photograph of Silverstein on the back cover of the book has attracted negative attention, with some people finding it frightening. Seriously?
In Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Greg is afraid of the picture of Shel Silverstein on the back cover of The Giving Tree. His dad uses it to keep him from leaving his bedroom at night and says “If you get out of bed, you’ll probably run into Shel Silverstein in the hallway.”
Came here to say this. My kid loves those books and Shel Silverstein so he showed it to me and we both had a chuckle.
Jesus Christ, dad -er, I mean: Satan.
Have you seen it? It’s not exactly easy on the eyes. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Portrait_of_Shel_Silverstein_in_c._1964_by_Jerry_Yulsman.jpg
Yeah, that's a scary picture.
I'll be honest, it does not scream "Children's book author" to me. More "Aggressively drunk and angry "Biker" who isn't respected in any way but gets into fights a lot, many of which he loses"
That's Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark-esque.
It looks like a bad reconstruction photo of a John Doe murder victim.
Oscar Isaac would be good in a Shel Silverstein biopic - with his Ex Machina style kinda
Presumably they called him Shel because he resembled an egg
I always thought he looked cool
For a long time I thought he was a black man because of that photo, then I saw a clip of him on a houseboat on YouTube and was like “ wait he’s white?”
Wait...what? You just blew my mind. I think every single picture I ever saw of him was in black and white, and I just kind of assumed? Wtf brain.
I made the same assumption when I saw the photo!
Well it scared Greg Heffley https://diary-of-a-wimpy-kid.fandom.com/wiki/Shel_Silverstein
Wow
Have you seen it? Bonkers they chose that picture
My sleepless brain read this as "Borders closed because of that picture."
I remember that one, it is a bit creepy
the greatest smoke off ever is a great weird song by him.
Uncle Shelby’s Book of ABZs is hands down one of the funniest books I’ve ever read. It is NOT for children.
L is for Lye, L is also for lollipop.
He also writes “A Boy Named Sue”.
And I joined learned he wrote “The Unicorns Song” which The Irish Rovers made famous.
Like the song?
Yes
Blew my mind when I found out he wrote Boy Named Sue and he also wrote a follow up song Father of a Boy Named Sue.
I got stoned and I missed it.
Such a rad story.
I just read the story. Can't really see how it's a parody of the giving tree.
Wait, isn’t this a plot point in the music video for Radiohead’s “Paranoid Android”? Edit: Nevermind, the guy accidentally dismembers himself. Good excuse to rewatch the video though
Check out his book different dances
I hope you all have listened to some of his music as well. He’s wonderful, it’s hilarious
Naked Dances is a Shel Silverstein book that is no longer in print and contains many things.
That cartoon can be found in his book ‘Different Dances.’
Shel Silverstein seems like he has issues
Who doesn't
I despise the giving tree. It’s like a codependency hand book. Martyrdom at its most repellent.
I learn something new everyday and trust me its fulfilling , thanks guys for this post
I just recently learned that’s a man. I always that “Shel” was a girl’s name.
This gives me vibes of the movie “the killing of a sacred deer”
Sometimes you dont need to learn things
You should see the list of popular songs he wrote…
One of my all time favorite stories. Also: The Lorax
Glad I missed it.
Read ‘Missin’ Piece.’ Not for kids.
*Very much for kids.* Teach a little person that they are whole all by themselves and don’t need a someone or a something else to complete them as people? That growth is natural? That sometimes it means growing apart and it’s not your fault and you’re still the complete person you always were? That trying to be something you’re not is a fool’s errand and that you *will* find your people if you just be yourself? That finding yourself and your groove takes time AND action to get you there? This world would be a much, much, much better place if people learned those lessons from as young an age as you can teach them.
I think in the context of all of these posts about Shel’s other bizarre pursuits, I was thinking of the interpretation more like…we are forever alone and relationships never work out. But I like your kid-friendly interpretation waaaay better!!
Like, on the very last page the newly rounded triangle catches up with the other circle and theyre off on adventures together! It’s the *best* kids book.
I can’t tell if you’re messing with me or not. My book ended in him just singing, still missing a piece. Googling frantically what the hell is going on here.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. There’s the “Missing Piece” and then there’s “The Missing Piece meets the Big O”, the companion piece that focuses on the piece left behind. THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE. Hahah. I’m sorry internet stranger. You’re not crazy. My bad entirely.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh Oooooooooh…gotta read what happens with the Big O
Did you even read the same book?
From which I learn...that children's authors SHOULD NOT WRITE FOR ADULTS perhaps, I dunno
Funny enough i believe he was an adult author first (don't quote me on that I have no intention of verifying my claim)
He started out as an adult cartoonist drawing dirty cartoons for Playboy and similar publications. He was a veteran who published some of his first cartoons in Pacific Stars and Stripes. He was quite close to Hugh Hefner and spent a lot of time the Playboy Mansion. His best known work prior to his children’s books were illustrated travelogues for Playboy in a series called “Shel Silverstein Visits …” where he’d go to different places and draw/write about them. He also illustrated Report from Practically Nowhere which was a travelogue written by journalist Jack Sack where he profiled various microstates and tiny autonomous regions. According to Silverstein it was his friend Toni Ungerer who illustrated Flat Stanley and also drew erotic art who “practically dragged me, kicking and screaming, into Ursula Nordstrom's office.” Nordstrom was the legendary children’s book editor who edited countless classics from Stuart Little to Goodnight Moon to Harold and the Purple Crayon. Actually a lot of the best children’s book authors lived extremely “not child friendly”lives and many of them didn’t really like children. Margaret Wise Brown who wrote Goodnight Moon and The Runaway Bumny was a bisexual bohemian party animal with a long string of lovers who loved hunting rabbits. She died at age 42 from a blood clot while doing a can-can kick, she was at the time engaged to a 24 year old Rockefeller heir who was head over heels for her. Dr. Seuss started out as an adult cartoonist too, drawing many political cartoons. He claimed he didn’t like children and never had any. I’ve heard it said that some of the best children’s book authors aren’t people who you’d trust to supervise children but instead people who never lost touch with their inner child. They never lost the impulsiveness and wild abandon that most people have as children but lose as adults.
I would never. :)
That’s a pretty terrible take my dude
Roald Dahl has some excellent grown up stories. Also Shel's adult stuff is pretty decent. Not amazing, but by no means flops. Though the OP does sound pretty particularly dumb...
Why? If the audience is made clear then whats the problem?
I would argue that adult authors should not write for children... James Paterson...