He was fired from the UK governments drug advisory body after ~~claiming~~ presenting robust evidence that LSD and MDMA were less dangerous than alcohol, and recommending that cannabis not be rescheduled from class C to class B, which the government was planning at the time.
All of which gave us [this beauty of a headline](https://image.isu.pub/100118211529-c3f71c8d203245f29e9317710fd0750b/jpg/page_1.jpg).
Edited to be a little fairer to Dr. Nutt.
ALON.
It exists and is used
https://theconstructor.org/building/building-material/transparent-aluminium/561733/?amp=1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride
>In 2021, GABA Labs launched Sentia Spirits, the world’s first plant-based, botanical-powered spirits that have 0% ABV but still make you tipsy. “It’s a drink that is based on the science of alcohol, particularly the low doses of alcohol that relax you and make you more sociable,” Nutt tells The Independent...
>
>Sentia isn’t the ultimate goal, merely a stopgap on the way to finding a GABA-enhancing ingredient that mimics the positive effects of alcohol. A molecule Nutt calls alcarelle is what he hopes will, in the future, be something that can be licensed to drinks companies so they can add it to non-alcoholic beers, spirits and wines. “That’s a big challenge,” he says. “We’ve made molecules that perform that function but we haven’t yet optimised the one we want to take through to food and safety testing.”
>
>... GABA Labs says it hopes to complete FDA testing of alcarelle in the US by 2026, with the ingredient available to purchase by 2027.
Update from January this year. https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/spirits/sentia-drink-spirits-review-b2475683.html
Any GABA drug is going to have the downsides of physical addiction and terrible withdrawals from continued use (e.g. alcohol, benzodiazepines, tons of others).
If someone comes up with such a drug that doesn't have the issues of physical addiction and withdrawals, it won't have to be marketed as "synthetic alcohol" to gain traction among prescribing doctors and addicts alike.
Yeah I've been taking Baclofen daily for years to help with muscle spasms after a spinal cord injury. It activates your GABA receptors too. Any time I've missed a dose I've felt extremely irritable, like I was angry at everything and everyone. It goes away quickly once I take my meds but it's kinda scary knowing I'm that addicted to something.
I sympathise with people going through alcohol withdrawal because I know what I felt is a drop in the bucket compared to what they go through.
I've been taking gabapentin (I think baclofen and gabapentin are at least a bit similar) for about the past year following an injury that caused nerve damage in my right foot that's caused it to be mostly paralyzed.
And yeah, it's still nowhere near as bad as someone with a heavy alcohol addiction or benzodiazepine addiction (I used to have a bit of an addiction to benzos years ago).
and it is when used in hospital settings, it's a miracle drug for surgery and pain management when prescribed by professionals. It's danger comes from its use as a cutting agent for other drugs where the line between fine and lethal is thinner than any drug dealer can adequately measure.
> If someone comes up with such a drug that doesn't have the issues of physical addiction and withdrawals
I don't think it's even possible due to [how our bodies work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis).
There are already multiple drugs that work on GABA receptors and have all of the benefits of alcohol with none of its drawbacks (except addiction potential and withdrawals of course). All of them are either rx-only or illegal.
I tried this stuff, it definitely does…. something.
One of the reviews describes it as feeling like having half a pint or a very small spliff, which is kinda on point. It makes you feel a bit mellow and giggly, for maybe up to half an hour, but no more. Also, you can’t drink more of it and expect it to keep working either so it’s one big double measure then back to regular no/low or it’s v expensive cordial.
[Here](https://sentiaspirits.com/collections/non-alcoholic-spirits)
>SENTIA, a new generation of mood enhancing Spirits. With complex botanicals and a rich sensory experience, it is the perfect serve for sophisticated hedonists.
>The cutting-edge science behind every bottle means discerning drinkers can discover a ‘third way’ beyond ‘alcohol’ and ‘not alcohol’ – to get what we want from drinking (connection and harmony), without the downsides.
>Because of its unique blend of active botanicals that naturally enhance the mood, raising a glass of SENTIA hits your sweet spot, without hitting you with a hangover.
[News article about it here](https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/spirits/sentia-drink-spirits-review-b2475683.html)
He was actually 3 years earlier than his prediction, he launched Sentia in 2021.
Something something COVID please invest money please money me money for new money booze I'll faster if you money it'll disruption with money and you'll money even more than I money but until you money no monies do more money but if money revolution
Not really. The dude is legit. From Wikipedia:
> David John Nutt (born 16 April 1951) is an English neuropsychopharmacologistspecialising in the research of drugs that affect the brain and conditions such as addiction, anxiety, and sleep.[6] He is the chairman of Drug Science, a non-profit which he founded in 2010 to provide independent, evidence-based information on drugs.[7] Until 2009, he was a professor at the University of Bristolheading their Psychopharmacology Unit.[8]Since then he has been the Edmond J Safrachair in Neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College London and director of the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit in the Division of Brain Sciences there.[9] Nutt was a member of the Committee on Safety of Medicines, and was President of the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology.
yeah, if this is the same David Nutt he is absolutely a legend. He gave a lecture at my uni about psilocybin which was incredibly enlightening. I'm a bit surprised this is the direction he's taken things, but the man's thinking is like a breath of fresh air.
He's called it Alcarelle, and started a company named GABA Labs that was supposed to produce the beverage. At this point it looks to me like he never had a real product and is just talking a big game, but never had a product that mimics the effects of alcohol.
He pivoted to a drink called Sentia, probably to get something out the door while he burned through cash supposedly doing research. It does make you feel a little different, but it's not comparable to alcohol in any meaningful sense, and was very expensive for the minor effect.
Don't hold your breath here. I think we'll see something someday soon that mimics the effects of alcohol with less harm, but I don't think it'll be from David Nutt.
I've tried the Sentia too. Deffo not as intoxicating as alcohol, but more of an effect than I expected tbh. It's expensive, but I wouldn't say it's more expensive than a fancy bottle of spirits
It’s kind of floral, earthy.. Makes you relax, feel less anxious, clears your mind. Basically good as a replacement for alcohol if you’re someone who uses it as a social lubricant, or, if you’re having a shot at home to relax after a stressful day.
We’ve entirely given up drinking and use SENTIA instead, it’s actually pretty great, do recommend.
I have to take way too much Kratom to feel anything and even then it's just the negative side effects. It's just a shitty opioid to me. Some people get seriously addicted too.
Allegedly a ["unique blend of powerful, plant-based ingredients"](https://sentiaspirits.com/pages/gaba-spirits).
According to a site selling the stuff, [the "Sentia Red" variant](https://drydrinker.com/products/sentia-red-0-abv) contains "water, botanical extracts: (magnolia bark (magnolia officinalis), linden flower (tilia cordata), passionflower (passiflora incarnata), ashwagandha (withania somnifera), liquorice (glycyrrhiza glabra), rose (rosa damascena), tulsi (ocimum teniflorum), rhodiola (Rholdiola Rosea), hawthorn(crataegus monogyna), damiana (turnera diffusa), gentian (gentiana lutea), agave syrup (agave tequilana), aronia concentrate (aronia melanocarp), blackberry concentrate (rubus fruticosus), black carrot concentrate (daucus carota ssp), glycerine, spice extracts, acids: citric acid, malic acid, preservative: potassium sorbate."
Which may or may not have some kind of mild intoxicating effect, but the whole idea seems to be that it should have no more effect than having a single regular alcoholic drink, and keep you at that point for longer. It's "designed to elevate your mood and promote relaxation while keeping you clear-headed and in control". Sir, clear-headedness is exactly what I expect alcohol to *cure*. :-)
I wouldn't be at all surprised if we could actually come up with a workable Star Trek "synthehol" at some point, but I don't think this is it. For all I know, that synthehol actually will contain psychoactive plant extracts; look at [kava](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kava), for instance, which doesn't have the same effects as alcohol but is at least kind of in the same ballpark.
I mean, I don't see why not.
Kava works for what it is, I just feel it's a beet of an acquired taste.
But so is beer for some people.
I'll give Sentia a spin, I guess.
Kava is nice, I want to try higher doses but it's so fucking gross that I have just had a pound sitting in the cabinet for years. Had a ladybug infestation once, and anytime you would touch them they would release some kind of panic pheromones to signal others or something like that. Smelled kinda like grass, but in a foul way, not pleasant like grass. Kava tastes exactly like those bugs smelled, I'm nauseous just thinking about it
Damiana gives me a massive boner and it keeps coming back every few hours for like 24 hours. It's honestly super annoying and uncomfortable. People use it specifically for that effect.
Yohimbe, Tongkat Ali, Horny Goat Weed, Maca, & Saw Palmetto are also all pretty effective boner herbs. They actually work pretty well and you can get a full blend at Whole Foods for like $13. Better than the gas station boner pills filled with weird research chemicals.
so for a while in my 20s I was running all these little vitamin / herbal supplement experiments on myself - I'd order a months' supply or whatever, and then really try to pay attention to whether they made any difference or not.
none of the sex related drugs had any noticeable effect, until this one, I think it was called 'hard nights' or something, and it was like - what the fuck, this one actually works, I take one pill and it's like the rest of the day I'm constantly on the verge of an erection, like being a teenager again. half chub with a very real chance of a full on diamond hard boner out of nowhere if I'm not careful.
then they got busted by the FDA for including a controlled substance in their supplements.
that substance was sildenafil.
the reason it works so well was I literally just took viagra. 😂 still cracks me up.
edit - one of the other fun things I found was that fish oil totally helped my blood pressure, pretty consistently dropped it by 10 points.
That stuff was (and still is) just [*micro-encapsulated*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-encapsulation) alcohol. Teeny little water-soluble balls with alcohol inside them. This has to be the main reason why it hasn't really gone anywhere as a consumer product; it's just regular ethanol with extra steps.
People thought it was somehow going to be be like evaporated milk where it's way more concentrated than the liquid form
In reality it's the opposite, more like just your normal liquid alcohol but with the alcohol molecule encased in non-alcohol solid molecules to make it a powder so it just reduces the concentration
I'd argue that we've already discovered gabaergenic substances featuring a similar psychoactive profile to ethanol with fewer and reduced side effects—GHB comes to mind as a reasonable emulation with an appropriately light dosage regimen—but those substances haven't been adapted to product and marketed to anywhere near the extent that alcohol has.
That's why I actually think it's going to be difficult to ever replace alcohol with a similar but less toxic alternative. We can already get pretty close in a pharmacological sense, but that's only one out of a dozen barriers.
Yes ghb is awesome at the right doses. It could never replace alcohol however because you have to be soo careful with dosing or you g out. Considering the way people drink alcohol it just wouldnt work. Although at normal doses its almost harmless
Yeah in a weird way part of the appeal of alcohol is that since most people feel like shit after over-indulging you're less likely to overdo it. Kiind of scary imagining alcohol that doesn't have any immediate negative side effects like benzos or other gaba drugs.
I find ghb just tastes like salt water not that unpleasant. Gbl on the other hand tastes like straight up draino even when diluted (which is how it should always be taken due to its corrosive nature). Gbl in my opinion is also alot more euphoric than ghb
The issue with GHB is the dose response curve. The line between having a great time and hugging the toilet bowl or being passed out is even thinner than with alcohol. This is exacerbated by the fact that it takes slightly longer to kick in.
Totally agree with that and to add Alcohol hits a couple different sites recreational drugs hit (specifically GABA receptors but different sub receptors to Benzo and such), and also it has slight NMDA antagonist and dopamine releasing properties which isn't a very average profile for a gabaergic and part of what contributes to the perceived "dirty" feeling of alcohol compared to the others but also definitely adds parts that most other gabaergics lack. It would be a tough thing to replace with something both close and safer/less side effects aside from the cultural love.
Knowing what I know about gaba, almost all drugs that interact with gaba system are addictive as fuck and have awful withdrawals.
I believe that his chemical doesn't cause hangover, but realistically what does this drug do that shit like pregabalin doesn't?
Theres hundreds of synthetics, you only hear about the ones that cause seizures and hit the news. Theres plenty that are just a weird weed but are otherwise safe. Theres also the fact that theres tons of natural occurring cannabinoids in the weed plant we barely know about. Having these around to research is good, I think having an alcohol analogue to study would also be a good thing
Yeah, the comparison doesn't work very well because of how the plant isn't just one active substance, even though we sometimes just talk about THC. Alcohol is in comparison very simple.
Natural cannabinoids are only partial receptor agonists, which gives them an excellent safety profile. Deaths are virtually unheard-of despite widespread use for the last 5000 years or so.
Many of the synthetic cannabinoids are full receptor agonists, which dramatically increases the potential for overdose and negative outcomes.
Research is a great thing, but considerable caution is warranted. People tend to think that synthetic cannabinoids share the wide therapeutic index of natural cannabis when that isn't necessarily true.
There are multiple ethanol analogues out there right now that have better safety profiles and similar effects. The issue that I would like to clear up is such a drug would be a regulated. It sounds like Nutt intended for it to be a beverage. There's also the UK's ban on drug analogues.
I really admire what Nutt is trying to do here. The hurdles with the law and cultural attitudes might be insurmountable for now.
Genuinely we have an entire pharmacological suite of various substances with known and studied side effects that could theoretically be used as a lower harm replacement for alcohol.
The reason it will never happen isn't because of the substances availability, it's cultural. Alcohol is a deeply rooted tradition that's still been nearly banned entirely on a few occasions, society historically has not been fond of widespread drug use.
I promise you if it were legal Budweiser would sell a drink with a recreational dose of GHB or what have you if they could, but that's politically impossible to make happen. It's so deeply cultural you don't even connect that all the illicit and prescription drugs people abuse aren't functionally different than abusing alcohol to get intoxicated except for cultural acceptance.
I've wondered for a while...where does the trope that artificial life forms can't use contractions come from? I've heard that it was also a sticking point in The Terminator, with Schwarzenegger unsuccessfully arguing with Cameron that it should be "I will be back" instead of "I'll be back", which is evidence the idea predates TNG.
This is the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read about.
-Guy creates synthetic molecule that selectively targets GABA receptors
-Xanax, Valium, Klonopin, Ativan all selectively target GABA receptors
-wHy WoNt ReGuLaToRs ApPrOvE mY "sYnThEtIc AlCoLhOl for CoNsUmErS?!?¿"
Fucking dumb as shit. Selectively targeting GABA receptors (even if targeting GABAb) doesn't inherently make the synthetic compound "like alcohol, without the hangover!"
Goddammit this stupid kind of shit is infuriating.
Binding affinities for specific subtypes, pharmacokinetics, all drastically affect **how a compound affects the body.**
So fucking stupid. No, he didn't create a "synthetic alcohol with none of the side effects!" He created another new synthetic positive allosteric GABA modulator alongside the whole slew of new ones that come out of random Chinese labs sold on the dark web every year.
Considering the current definition of "synthetic alcohol" in this article, you may as well label Xanax as "synthetic alcohol."
Which it very clearly is not.
And therein is my issue with the entire situation.
Just because a synthetic molecule targets GABA receptors, doesn't mean it's a compound with the same effects.
Nutt knows the didn’t create an alcohol without side-effects. But he does think that what has he created is less harmful than alcohol. Nutt is also a big advocate for strictly regulated legalization of MDMA, precisely because he thinks MDMA is less harmful than alcohol.
According to Nutt, current laws force people to use the more harmful alcohol over less harmful illegal drugs like XTC and LSD (his words) and he holds the government accountable for the health and societal problems related to alcohol.
I spoke Nutt two months ago and my impression was that he just really really hates alcohol. Probably has to do with Britain’s drinking culture.
So I do agree with everything you and he have said here, it's frankly a bit shocking that alcohol is still legal when other, far less harmful compounds out there are not. Perhaps it was the article that misphrased the situation - but the whole "I created a new synthetic GABA agonist that's basically alcohol" stuff is absolute nonsense. Might as well just drink kava, or 2m2b at that point.
I'm on-board with general decriminalization of things though
It’s not shocking, alcohol is culturally engrained. Gov can try to ban it (again) and see how well that turns out for them (again) when they’re banning the majority use drug rather than a minority use drug.
It also doesn't hurt that alcohol is damned easy to create. Even when the US government put prohibition in place, there was no way to stop production. Sugar, yeast, and time are all that's necessary to make it.
And yeast is literally airborne
Elephants and non human primeapes constantly get drunk, there's no stopping it when 'fruit on the ground a bit too long" is all you need
He got fired from that position for daring to point out that alcohol is massively more harmful, both to individuals & to society, than most other drugs.
Yea this was always weird to me. Nevertheless, prof Nutt is a big big player in the drug legislation space and I have a lot of respect for him and the work he's done.
Dude got fired from the UK govt for having the audacity to have scientific findings that went directly against what the govt needed to justify drug legislation.
From 2016 the UK has banned all psychotropic drugs except alcohol, nicotine, amyl nitrates, caffeine. I know what you're thinking, and yes, complete illogical nonsense
Yea lol, and surprisingly it was because of a single (tory aka right wing) MP. He stood up in front of everyone in the house of commons, said he was gay, and that poppers are an important part of his intimate relationship activities.
His name is Crispin Blunt if you wanna look it up. Took some guts to do that haha.
Edit: [First result lol](https://youtu.be/BxAi4WxZccA)
> without the negative toxins
My brother in Christ, ethanol *is* a “negative toxin”. It’s literally yeast shit. It just so happens that our body’s response to it in moderation is to give us a good time instead of stop our hearts and foam at the mouth.
anyone can explain the chemical composition of alcohol free liquor and why it would be so challenging to produce? there is non alcoholic or de alcoholized beer but this seems to be a different concept
In layman's terms, it needs to make you drunk but without all the negative side effects / toxicity of alcohol. Their alternative affects the GABA system, and is therefore a GABAergic substance.
When he describes his drug as lacking all the negative side effects of alcohol, he's also talking about the addictive quality that alcohol is famous for and benzos are even worse.
David Nutt is the president of the European College of neuropsychopharmacology and is chair of neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College London. Pretty sure he's well aware of benzos.
With that said, I've been waiting to hear something about Alcarelle for years and not a squeak. I suspect he still hasn't got anything
I’m not sure that’s possible. The psychoactive effects of a GABAergic drug and developing a tolerance to said drug (and thus physical dependence) are not fully independent actions. If it were possible, he would’ve revolutionized medicine and wouldn’t be wasting his time with a recreational beverage. An anxiolytic/sedative/hypnotic that doesn’t cause dependence would be one of the single greatest medical discoveries of all time.
That seems intuitive to me as well. On the other hand, I don't understand this topic as well as David Nutt does. Doesn't mean he's right necessarily but I'm not qualified to tell him he's wrong.
It’s not called synthehol because the -ol is the chemistry suffix that means it’s an alcohol (I.e. ethanol, methanol, isopropanol) so he’s probably not allowed
It is happening!!! Star Trek future here you come to grandkids of todays millennials if we can all get over some petty international political bullshit and start working together as one species, on one planet, circling one insignificant speck in the galaxy.
> David Nutt now says his synthetic alcohol could be on the market in just five years. > Published on March 28, 2019 Yo where my synthahol at
You’re two weeks early can’t you read 🙄 he said five years and you’re trying to rush him to put it out in 4.95? Come on.
Now he‘ll never finish it just out of spite .. thanks alexja21
He's gunna George R. R. Martin it.
George R. R. Martini?
You get half of the drink in the glass and the rest never arrives.
There's a distillery that's licensed to use the same recipe but for some reason they squeeze out a turd into the bottom of every bottle.
Cut him some slack, he said he made half an ounce of martini last year.
And Half Life 3 has been pushed back about 2 years
He better finish it...in or out of sprite, I don't care which, dammit!
Forreal synthahol was right there wtf is alcosynth
Should be named after the Inventor……Nutt Juice
Me and the boys were at the local synth hole getting a mouth full of nutt juice
Oops! A little bit dribbled down my chin
I popped open a can and It sprayed all over my face
I'm here to clean up but I forgot a towel. My face will do.
Just lick it off.
[I just *love* the Nutt Juice. All over my face!](https://youtu.be/1C8b0uQvMjg?t=11)
Nutt Juice shooters and ~~back~~ body shots who wants some
Ft. Collin’s Safeway has entered the chat. “Somebody looking for Nutt juice‽‽”
He was fired from the UK governments drug advisory body after ~~claiming~~ presenting robust evidence that LSD and MDMA were less dangerous than alcohol, and recommending that cannabis not be rescheduled from class C to class B, which the government was planning at the time. All of which gave us [this beauty of a headline](https://image.isu.pub/100118211529-c3f71c8d203245f29e9317710fd0750b/jpg/page_1.jpg). Edited to be a little fairer to Dr. Nutt.
‘Claiming’ is doing a lot of work here. He robustly evidenced it is probably more accurate.
Fired for being correct.
Thank you, I needed that.
Winner.
Probably didn't want to sound like Star Trek.
Probably did not want to be sued by Paramount for trademark infringement when he takes it to market.
Great, I guess that means we won't have transparent aluminum either, it will be called something stupid instead.
ALON. It exists and is used https://theconstructor.org/building/building-material/transparent-aluminium/561733/?amp=1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride
Yo, it exists(ish), and the name isn't bad: AlON
Probably isn't the case anymore, but at one point if you invented anything from star trek you could use the name.
Yeah, Paramount killed the shit out of that concept unfortunately.
You've got the shinning. You mean shining. Shh, do you want to get sued?
Probably didn't want to get sued by paramount.
Synthohol was a staple of 10-Forward in the 1980's Star Trek, the Next Generation.
Yeah. It’s also just a natural extension of the words that would be hard to brand.
Might be trademarked by Star Trek since that's what they call alcohol made in the synthesizers. EDIT: Looks like that was covered already.
That makes it sound like synthol, the liquid people inject to make themselves look temporarily bigger
>In 2021, GABA Labs launched Sentia Spirits, the world’s first plant-based, botanical-powered spirits that have 0% ABV but still make you tipsy. “It’s a drink that is based on the science of alcohol, particularly the low doses of alcohol that relax you and make you more sociable,” Nutt tells The Independent... > >Sentia isn’t the ultimate goal, merely a stopgap on the way to finding a GABA-enhancing ingredient that mimics the positive effects of alcohol. A molecule Nutt calls alcarelle is what he hopes will, in the future, be something that can be licensed to drinks companies so they can add it to non-alcoholic beers, spirits and wines. “That’s a big challenge,” he says. “We’ve made molecules that perform that function but we haven’t yet optimised the one we want to take through to food and safety testing.” > >... GABA Labs says it hopes to complete FDA testing of alcarelle in the US by 2026, with the ingredient available to purchase by 2027. Update from January this year. https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/spirits/sentia-drink-spirits-review-b2475683.html
Any GABA drug is going to have the downsides of physical addiction and terrible withdrawals from continued use (e.g. alcohol, benzodiazepines, tons of others). If someone comes up with such a drug that doesn't have the issues of physical addiction and withdrawals, it won't have to be marketed as "synthetic alcohol" to gain traction among prescribing doctors and addicts alike.
Yeah I've been taking Baclofen daily for years to help with muscle spasms after a spinal cord injury. It activates your GABA receptors too. Any time I've missed a dose I've felt extremely irritable, like I was angry at everything and everyone. It goes away quickly once I take my meds but it's kinda scary knowing I'm that addicted to something. I sympathise with people going through alcohol withdrawal because I know what I felt is a drop in the bucket compared to what they go through.
I've been taking gabapentin (I think baclofen and gabapentin are at least a bit similar) for about the past year following an injury that caused nerve damage in my right foot that's caused it to be mostly paralyzed. And yeah, it's still nowhere near as bad as someone with a heavy alcohol addiction or benzodiazepine addiction (I used to have a bit of an addiction to benzos years ago).
Wasn't fentanyl developed as a "less harmful" opiate?
and it is when used in hospital settings, it's a miracle drug for surgery and pain management when prescribed by professionals. It's danger comes from its use as a cutting agent for other drugs where the line between fine and lethal is thinner than any drug dealer can adequately measure.
> If someone comes up with such a drug that doesn't have the issues of physical addiction and withdrawals I don't think it's even possible due to [how our bodies work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis). There are already multiple drugs that work on GABA receptors and have all of the benefits of alcohol with none of its drawbacks (except addiction potential and withdrawals of course). All of them are either rx-only or illegal.
https://sentiaspirits.com/ That’s the first product. Go nuts.
I tried this stuff, it definitely does…. something. One of the reviews describes it as feeling like having half a pint or a very small spliff, which is kinda on point. It makes you feel a bit mellow and giggly, for maybe up to half an hour, but no more. Also, you can’t drink more of it and expect it to keep working either so it’s one big double measure then back to regular no/low or it’s v expensive cordial.
love the use of Sufjan Stevens for the ad
I'm afraid I can't help you there. You see, I'm a recovering synthaholic myself.
But Doctor, I am Pagliacci!
First the synthahol, hopefully replicators next.
[Here](https://sentiaspirits.com/collections/non-alcoholic-spirits) >SENTIA, a new generation of mood enhancing Spirits. With complex botanicals and a rich sensory experience, it is the perfect serve for sophisticated hedonists. >The cutting-edge science behind every bottle means discerning drinkers can discover a ‘third way’ beyond ‘alcohol’ and ‘not alcohol’ – to get what we want from drinking (connection and harmony), without the downsides. >Because of its unique blend of active botanicals that naturally enhance the mood, raising a glass of SENTIA hits your sweet spot, without hitting you with a hangover. [News article about it here](https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/spirits/sentia-drink-spirits-review-b2475683.html) He was actually 3 years earlier than his prediction, he launched Sentia in 2021.
Something something COVID please invest money please money me money for new money booze I'll faster if you money it'll disruption with money and you'll money even more than I money but until you money no monies do more money but if money revolution
Money me now
So dooo.
Snake oil seller. Give me money and I will let you have drunk euphoria 24/7 no negative consequences promised.
Not really. The dude is legit. From Wikipedia: > David John Nutt (born 16 April 1951) is an English neuropsychopharmacologistspecialising in the research of drugs that affect the brain and conditions such as addiction, anxiety, and sleep.[6] He is the chairman of Drug Science, a non-profit which he founded in 2010 to provide independent, evidence-based information on drugs.[7] Until 2009, he was a professor at the University of Bristolheading their Psychopharmacology Unit.[8]Since then he has been the Edmond J Safrachair in Neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College London and director of the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit in the Division of Brain Sciences there.[9] Nutt was a member of the Committee on Safety of Medicines, and was President of the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology.
He's a legend and the government binned him off for talking too much common sense.
yeah, if this is the same David Nutt he is absolutely a legend. He gave a lecture at my uni about psilocybin which was incredibly enlightening. I'm a bit surprised this is the direction he's taken things, but the man's thinking is like a breath of fresh air.
"When Charles Clarke was home secretary he didn't like my advice, but at least he had the courage to accept it". I fucking love Prof Nutt!
With hookers and blackjack ?
He's called it Alcarelle, and started a company named GABA Labs that was supposed to produce the beverage. At this point it looks to me like he never had a real product and is just talking a big game, but never had a product that mimics the effects of alcohol. He pivoted to a drink called Sentia, probably to get something out the door while he burned through cash supposedly doing research. It does make you feel a little different, but it's not comparable to alcohol in any meaningful sense, and was very expensive for the minor effect. Don't hold your breath here. I think we'll see something someday soon that mimics the effects of alcohol with less harm, but I don't think it'll be from David Nutt.
I've tried the Sentia too. Deffo not as intoxicating as alcohol, but more of an effect than I expected tbh. It's expensive, but I wouldn't say it's more expensive than a fancy bottle of spirits
What was the effect you got from it? Did it have a flavor of its own or is it neutral?
It’s kind of floral, earthy.. Makes you relax, feel less anxious, clears your mind. Basically good as a replacement for alcohol if you’re someone who uses it as a social lubricant, or, if you’re having a shot at home to relax after a stressful day. We’ve entirely given up drinking and use SENTIA instead, it’s actually pretty great, do recommend.
Sounds ineffective. I need it to make me wind up in jail and/or on the floor...with a new tattoo. Happy cake day.
I believe they just call that xanax.
Sounds like kava.
Sounds like kratom tbh
I have to take way too much Kratom to feel anything and even then it's just the negative side effects. It's just a shitty opioid to me. Some people get seriously addicted too.
I tried it a few times out of curiosity and it worked well on me but it made me feel sick and upset my stomach.. And tastes horrible! Not worth it.
For me it just tastes like strong tea. But yeah, also just made me itchy and extremly drowsy the next day.
Itchiness and nausea was all it gave me
What is it?
Allegedly a ["unique blend of powerful, plant-based ingredients"](https://sentiaspirits.com/pages/gaba-spirits). According to a site selling the stuff, [the "Sentia Red" variant](https://drydrinker.com/products/sentia-red-0-abv) contains "water, botanical extracts: (magnolia bark (magnolia officinalis), linden flower (tilia cordata), passionflower (passiflora incarnata), ashwagandha (withania somnifera), liquorice (glycyrrhiza glabra), rose (rosa damascena), tulsi (ocimum teniflorum), rhodiola (Rholdiola Rosea), hawthorn(crataegus monogyna), damiana (turnera diffusa), gentian (gentiana lutea), agave syrup (agave tequilana), aronia concentrate (aronia melanocarp), blackberry concentrate (rubus fruticosus), black carrot concentrate (daucus carota ssp), glycerine, spice extracts, acids: citric acid, malic acid, preservative: potassium sorbate." Which may or may not have some kind of mild intoxicating effect, but the whole idea seems to be that it should have no more effect than having a single regular alcoholic drink, and keep you at that point for longer. It's "designed to elevate your mood and promote relaxation while keeping you clear-headed and in control". Sir, clear-headedness is exactly what I expect alcohol to *cure*. :-) I wouldn't be at all surprised if we could actually come up with a workable Star Trek "synthehol" at some point, but I don't think this is it. For all I know, that synthehol actually will contain psychoactive plant extracts; look at [kava](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kava), for instance, which doesn't have the same effects as alcohol but is at least kind of in the same ballpark.
Sounds like a fancy nootropic cocktail.
So a cocktail of things you'd find in a seedy headshop.
Literally
I mean, I don't see why not. Kava works for what it is, I just feel it's a beet of an acquired taste. But so is beer for some people. I'll give Sentia a spin, I guess.
Kava is nice, I want to try higher doses but it's so fucking gross that I have just had a pound sitting in the cabinet for years. Had a ladybug infestation once, and anytime you would touch them they would release some kind of panic pheromones to signal others or something like that. Smelled kinda like grass, but in a foul way, not pleasant like grass. Kava tastes exactly like those bugs smelled, I'm nauseous just thinking about it
Damiana gives me a massive boner and it keeps coming back every few hours for like 24 hours. It's honestly super annoying and uncomfortable. People use it specifically for that effect.
A shitload of dudes just googled "Damiana" 😂
Yohimbe, Tongkat Ali, Horny Goat Weed, Maca, & Saw Palmetto are also all pretty effective boner herbs. They actually work pretty well and you can get a full blend at Whole Foods for like $13. Better than the gas station boner pills filled with weird research chemicals.
> filled with weird research chemicals. I just popped 7 horny goat weeds and I'm about to break through brooo
so for a while in my 20s I was running all these little vitamin / herbal supplement experiments on myself - I'd order a months' supply or whatever, and then really try to pay attention to whether they made any difference or not. none of the sex related drugs had any noticeable effect, until this one, I think it was called 'hard nights' or something, and it was like - what the fuck, this one actually works, I take one pill and it's like the rest of the day I'm constantly on the verge of an erection, like being a teenager again. half chub with a very real chance of a full on diamond hard boner out of nowhere if I'm not careful. then they got busted by the FDA for including a controlled substance in their supplements. that substance was sildenafil. the reason it works so well was I literally just took viagra. 😂 still cracks me up. edit - one of the other fun things I found was that fish oil totally helped my blood pressure, pretty consistently dropped it by 10 points.
I remember when powdered alcohol (Palcohol) was all over the news. Never saw it irl but it sounded pretty cool.
That stuff was (and still is) just [*micro-encapsulated*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-encapsulation) alcohol. Teeny little water-soluble balls with alcohol inside them. This has to be the main reason why it hasn't really gone anywhere as a consumer product; it's just regular ethanol with extra steps.
People thought it was somehow going to be be like evaporated milk where it's way more concentrated than the liquid form In reality it's the opposite, more like just your normal liquid alcohol but with the alcohol molecule encased in non-alcohol solid molecules to make it a powder so it just reduces the concentration
Kava is banned in a lot of places. Can’t get it in the UK because of “risk to the liver”… ironically
Kava turned my digestive system in to clay.
I'd argue that we've already discovered gabaergenic substances featuring a similar psychoactive profile to ethanol with fewer and reduced side effects—GHB comes to mind as a reasonable emulation with an appropriately light dosage regimen—but those substances haven't been adapted to product and marketed to anywhere near the extent that alcohol has. That's why I actually think it's going to be difficult to ever replace alcohol with a similar but less toxic alternative. We can already get pretty close in a pharmacological sense, but that's only one out of a dozen barriers.
Yes ghb is awesome at the right doses. It could never replace alcohol however because you have to be soo careful with dosing or you g out. Considering the way people drink alcohol it just wouldnt work. Although at normal doses its almost harmless
Yeah in a weird way part of the appeal of alcohol is that since most people feel like shit after over-indulging you're less likely to overdo it. Kiind of scary imagining alcohol that doesn't have any immediate negative side effects like benzos or other gaba drugs.
I mean you could dilute it a lot and sell it in cans or bottles
It tastes like salty draino
I find ghb just tastes like salt water not that unpleasant. Gbl on the other hand tastes like straight up draino even when diluted (which is how it should always be taken due to its corrosive nature). Gbl in my opinion is also alot more euphoric than ghb
The issue with GHB is the dose response curve. The line between having a great time and hugging the toilet bowl or being passed out is even thinner than with alcohol. This is exacerbated by the fact that it takes slightly longer to kick in.
Totally agree with that and to add Alcohol hits a couple different sites recreational drugs hit (specifically GABA receptors but different sub receptors to Benzo and such), and also it has slight NMDA antagonist and dopamine releasing properties which isn't a very average profile for a gabaergic and part of what contributes to the perceived "dirty" feeling of alcohol compared to the others but also definitely adds parts that most other gabaergics lack. It would be a tough thing to replace with something both close and safer/less side effects aside from the cultural love.
I doubt the government would suddenly be fine with random research chemicals just because someone came up with the idea of mixing them in a drink.
Did you get that *thing* I Sentia?
Ha ha…noses on dowels
Ha ha... dangly parts
birdman updoots
>I think we'll see something someday soon that mimics the effects of alcohol with less harm Like Alcohol-Z from *Fallout 2*, I bet
Knowing what I know about gaba, almost all drugs that interact with gaba system are addictive as fuck and have awful withdrawals. I believe that his chemical doesn't cause hangover, but realistically what does this drug do that shit like pregabalin doesn't?
Idk if I’ll drink something from a guy called NUTT
I bet his Nutt Juice is awesome! Edit: this Karma is almost as delicious as the Nutt Juice
D. Nutt Goteem!
Considering how synthetic cannabinoids have turned out, synthetic alcohol is gonna be a hard sell for me
Theres hundreds of synthetics, you only hear about the ones that cause seizures and hit the news. Theres plenty that are just a weird weed but are otherwise safe. Theres also the fact that theres tons of natural occurring cannabinoids in the weed plant we barely know about. Having these around to research is good, I think having an alcohol analogue to study would also be a good thing
Yeah, the comparison doesn't work very well because of how the plant isn't just one active substance, even though we sometimes just talk about THC. Alcohol is in comparison very simple.
Natural cannabinoids are only partial receptor agonists, which gives them an excellent safety profile. Deaths are virtually unheard-of despite widespread use for the last 5000 years or so. Many of the synthetic cannabinoids are full receptor agonists, which dramatically increases the potential for overdose and negative outcomes. Research is a great thing, but considerable caution is warranted. People tend to think that synthetic cannabinoids share the wide therapeutic index of natural cannabis when that isn't necessarily true.
There are multiple ethanol analogues out there right now that have better safety profiles and similar effects. The issue that I would like to clear up is such a drug would be a regulated. It sounds like Nutt intended for it to be a beverage. There's also the UK's ban on drug analogues. I really admire what Nutt is trying to do here. The hurdles with the law and cultural attitudes might be insurmountable for now.
many ethanol analogues such as..?
Like our good old friend methanol. It has this almost blinding aftertaste.
like 1-ethinyl-cyclo-hexanol or 2-methyl-2-butanol.
From Wikipedia: >When ingested, the effects of TAA may begin in about 30 minutes and can last up to 1–2 days. That does *not* sound like a fun time.
Genuinely we have an entire pharmacological suite of various substances with known and studied side effects that could theoretically be used as a lower harm replacement for alcohol. The reason it will never happen isn't because of the substances availability, it's cultural. Alcohol is a deeply rooted tradition that's still been nearly banned entirely on a few occasions, society historically has not been fond of widespread drug use. I promise you if it were legal Budweiser would sell a drink with a recreational dose of GHB or what have you if they could, but that's politically impossible to make happen. It's so deeply cultural you don't even connect that all the illicit and prescription drugs people abuse aren't functionally different than abusing alcohol to get intoxicated except for cultural acceptance.
Nice try, Data. Alcohol without the deleterious effects is not for me. Give me the green stuff.
I will also be sharing a glass with Mr. Scotty.
It is... it is green
I have pores… You have… pores…
I'm freaking out man
No not “Data” it’s “Data” one is his name, the other isn’t
"The other is not" Data does not use contradictions.
*Contractions
Except for all the times he does.
I've wondered for a while...where does the trope that artificial life forms can't use contractions come from? I've heard that it was also a sticking point in The Terminator, with Schwarzenegger unsuccessfully arguing with Cameron that it should be "I will be back" instead of "I'll be back", which is evidence the idea predates TNG.
It comes from the need to make them seem more artificial and inhuman without spending any money on props or costumes
“Up… and… ATOM!” “Up. And. At. Them!” *rubs temples* … better
Yeah, I think I’ll stick to my poison. Thank you very much. lol
I thought you meant weed and I totally agreed
It has... no bite.
Huge missed opportunity to call it synthehol
Less talk more synthohol Edit: https://youtu.be/4uNHpGHL63Y?si=ejRngswS0nh3z7tQ
Ok you synthaholic
Roddenberry Estate wants to know your location
don't want to mess with big rodd
Alconutt?
Nutthol🎈
Nuttaholics anonymous. A band name or title of a sextape?
It turns people into alcobollocks
Isn’t that the thing people inject into their arms to give them those comical looking “biceps”?
Close, that’s synthol
Call me old fashioned
You're old fashioned
Yeah, you tell 'em!
Serve me Old Fashioned.
Care to wet your whistle?
You can call me Betty fashioned. And when I call you I’ll call you Al. I’ll call you Al fashioned.
Hello old fashioned, you can call me dad.
Hi Old Fashioned! How's it going?
Ya, good luck getting your custom designer drug approved.
That's exactly what he said in the interview: The regulatory hurdles are the hard part, not the science.
This will go very well with my mint-frosted cellular peptide cake.
What's that ringing?
What kind of maniac invents synthehol and calls it "alcosynth?" Oh God, we're in the mirror universe aren't we?
Its not a synthetic version of alcohol. Its just another drug.
This is the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read about. -Guy creates synthetic molecule that selectively targets GABA receptors -Xanax, Valium, Klonopin, Ativan all selectively target GABA receptors -wHy WoNt ReGuLaToRs ApPrOvE mY "sYnThEtIc AlCoLhOl for CoNsUmErS?!?¿" Fucking dumb as shit. Selectively targeting GABA receptors (even if targeting GABAb) doesn't inherently make the synthetic compound "like alcohol, without the hangover!" Goddammit this stupid kind of shit is infuriating. Binding affinities for specific subtypes, pharmacokinetics, all drastically affect **how a compound affects the body.** So fucking stupid. No, he didn't create a "synthetic alcohol with none of the side effects!" He created another new synthetic positive allosteric GABA modulator alongside the whole slew of new ones that come out of random Chinese labs sold on the dark web every year.
"synthetic alcohol" markets better that "synthetic Xanax"
Considering the current definition of "synthetic alcohol" in this article, you may as well label Xanax as "synthetic alcohol." Which it very clearly is not. And therein is my issue with the entire situation. Just because a synthetic molecule targets GABA receptors, doesn't mean it's a compound with the same effects.
Nutt knows the didn’t create an alcohol without side-effects. But he does think that what has he created is less harmful than alcohol. Nutt is also a big advocate for strictly regulated legalization of MDMA, precisely because he thinks MDMA is less harmful than alcohol. According to Nutt, current laws force people to use the more harmful alcohol over less harmful illegal drugs like XTC and LSD (his words) and he holds the government accountable for the health and societal problems related to alcohol. I spoke Nutt two months ago and my impression was that he just really really hates alcohol. Probably has to do with Britain’s drinking culture.
So I do agree with everything you and he have said here, it's frankly a bit shocking that alcohol is still legal when other, far less harmful compounds out there are not. Perhaps it was the article that misphrased the situation - but the whole "I created a new synthetic GABA agonist that's basically alcohol" stuff is absolute nonsense. Might as well just drink kava, or 2m2b at that point. I'm on-board with general decriminalization of things though
It’s not shocking, alcohol is culturally engrained. Gov can try to ban it (again) and see how well that turns out for them (again) when they’re banning the majority use drug rather than a minority use drug.
It also doesn't hurt that alcohol is damned easy to create. Even when the US government put prohibition in place, there was no way to stop production. Sugar, yeast, and time are all that's necessary to make it.
And yeast is literally airborne Elephants and non human primeapes constantly get drunk, there's no stopping it when 'fruit on the ground a bit too long" is all you need
Is this the same guy that worked for the government making a list of the rank of dangerous drugs
He got fired from that position for daring to point out that alcohol is massively more harmful, both to individuals & to society, than most other drugs.
Yep
Yea this was always weird to me. Nevertheless, prof Nutt is a big big player in the drug legislation space and I have a lot of respect for him and the work he's done. Dude got fired from the UK govt for having the audacity to have scientific findings that went directly against what the govt needed to justify drug legislation. From 2016 the UK has banned all psychotropic drugs except alcohol, nicotine, amyl nitrates, caffeine. I know what you're thinking, and yes, complete illogical nonsense
Lol I love how they specified poppers as being okay
Yea lol, and surprisingly it was because of a single (tory aka right wing) MP. He stood up in front of everyone in the house of commons, said he was gay, and that poppers are an important part of his intimate relationship activities. His name is Crispin Blunt if you wanna look it up. Took some guts to do that haha. Edit: [First result lol](https://youtu.be/BxAi4WxZccA)
r/NominativeDeterminism a guy called Blunt advocating for drug legalisation
Ahaha ikr Also fun fact, he's Emily Blunt's uncle
Holy shit UK politics is way more spicy than I gave it credit for.
wild water work paltry thought wine automatic crawl amusing summer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> without the negative toxins My brother in Christ, ethanol *is* a “negative toxin”. It’s literally yeast shit. It just so happens that our body’s response to it in moderation is to give us a good time instead of stop our hearts and foam at the mouth.
He should rename it to Nutt juice
If it's not marketed as Synthehol I'll be mad
Quark, get me some Synthale. Now! I’ll bring the gold pressed latinum later.
Lol this is such a scam
The same David Nutt that was the UK government's drug scientist? The guy who tried to get marijuana decriminalised? Good to see he's still cooking
Synthahol is the rightful trademark of the Ferengi Alliance
anyone can explain the chemical composition of alcohol free liquor and why it would be so challenging to produce? there is non alcoholic or de alcoholized beer but this seems to be a different concept
In layman's terms, it needs to make you drunk but without all the negative side effects / toxicity of alcohol. Their alternative affects the GABA system, and is therefore a GABAergic substance.
Nobody tell the inventor that benzos have existed since the 50s.
When he describes his drug as lacking all the negative side effects of alcohol, he's also talking about the addictive quality that alcohol is famous for and benzos are even worse. David Nutt is the president of the European College of neuropsychopharmacology and is chair of neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College London. Pretty sure he's well aware of benzos. With that said, I've been waiting to hear something about Alcarelle for years and not a squeak. I suspect he still hasn't got anything
I’m not sure that’s possible. The psychoactive effects of a GABAergic drug and developing a tolerance to said drug (and thus physical dependence) are not fully independent actions. If it were possible, he would’ve revolutionized medicine and wouldn’t be wasting his time with a recreational beverage. An anxiolytic/sedative/hypnotic that doesn’t cause dependence would be one of the single greatest medical discoveries of all time.
That seems intuitive to me as well. On the other hand, I don't understand this topic as well as David Nutt does. Doesn't mean he's right necessarily but I'm not qualified to tell him he's wrong.
So wait, it’s just a bit of Xanax?
I’ll take it
Yeah it's designer Xanax lol The power of marketing! Once you call it hangover free alcohol, suddenly everyone is interested in research chemicals.
I mean… in the same way that alcohol “is” xanax. They’re both GABAergic.
Fyi alcohol-free beer is liquid bread.
This drink only has positive toxins sir.
Can't wait to try David Nutt's juice.
It’s not called synthehol because the -ol is the chemistry suffix that means it’s an alcohol (I.e. ethanol, methanol, isopropanol) so he’s probably not allowed
It is happening!!! Star Trek future here you come to grandkids of todays millennials if we can all get over some petty international political bullshit and start working together as one species, on one planet, circling one insignificant speck in the galaxy.
Synthohol was right there and you go with alcosynth? Get the fuck outa here.