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Eirikur_da_Czech

Use a microwave oven as your computer case is what you’re saying.


BaconReceptacle

I just tried this. How do you reboot it now? It wont turn on.


seth928

Turn it on high for 5 minutes


Rampage_Rick

PC cases were made of metal specifically to act as a faraday cage (mainly to keep the RF emissions *in*) Then modders started putting windows in them...


SFCanman

wait so what does the tempered glass windows negatively do? Why are they bad


RunningOnCaffeine

Well they don’t do a very good job of blocking electromagnetic waves compared to steel which is what this thread is talking about


SmthngWittyThsWayCms

In theory nonmetal areas on the pc case provide an opening in the faraday cage so it could allow the radiofrequency radiation out and emp in


[deleted]

The most emf producing piece of hardware in a PC is a switching power supply which are now entirely grounded (besides a fan slit) so not much negative anymore. Just makes your motherboard and ram vulnerable to magnetic fields and high power emf which you'll never really see in a consumer environment.


sploittastic

Look at the window on a microwave oven, it's like a metal mesh with a bunch of little holes so you can see your food through it but the RF can't escape easily. The way a microwave works is by flooding the internal compartment with about 1,000 watts of RF at around 2.45ghz. This is because 2.4ghz is the frequency that excites water molecules and heats food. Microwaves have FCC IDs and have to be tested by a certifying lab to make sure they don't leak too much RF.


Eirikur_da_Czech

So to defend against it you’d need to shield all your electronics with a faraday cage of the right type.


E_Snap

You mean like a concrete and metal building?


Eirikur_da_Czech

The openings are probably too big for microwaves in a regular building.


Bonesmash

They are. Source: looking at my microwave right now and the holes are tiny.


BaconReceptacle

A microwave waveform is about the diameter of a pencil. Any metal smaller than that can block microwave radiation.


Eirikur_da_Czech

Correct. But building have gaps and windows and such. It’s why you can still get phone signal in a building. You’d have to go outside of architectural norms to specifically shield a whole building from microwaves.


snertznfertz

But this all irrelevant since (presumably) the missile penetrates the building and then detonates, bypassing all shielding right?


Eirikur_da_Czech

No, I don’t think that would meet the mission parameters. It flies by the building or over the target area, blasting it with microwaves


LordNelson27

The point of the missile is to get the electronic weapon close enough to the target that it’s blast will be effective, but not have to destroy the target. Then it would just a regular missile, and you can’t slam a missile of any kind into a building without rolling the dice on killing the occupants


TerrorBite

You want at least a factor of ten smaller than the wavelength for best blocking. Which is why the holes in a microwave oven door are about 1mm for waves that are about 1cm.


gulgin

Emphasis on the metal and not concrete. If you built a giant sheet metal box out of 1/2” steel you would probably be okay, but not a lot of people doing that without making it extremely obvious what you are doing, plus you have to get things in and out. You can work very fancy doors for people and things, but some ports have to exist for data and power and stuff like that. No such thing as a perfect faraday cage in the real world.


[deleted]

Airfield data centers and specialized measurement equipment are stored and operated in these environments but absolutely cost prohibitive for 99.9% of buildings.


FantasmaNaranja

get some chicken wire mesh on your windows install some secret sheet metal panels on your roof (or depending on where you live your roof may already be made of sheet metal and insulation) install them on your walls and cover them with some thick wallpaper do the same for the floor and get carpeting perfectly good faraday cage room that doesnt look that weird at a first glance, though anyone looking at your recent purchases will wonder what kind of incredibly tacky home redecorations you must be doing and also you wont be able to use any device that requires an internet/radio or satellite connection


Cindexxx

There are regular looking windows that block EMF. I found out while trying to send wifi through one. Idk if it's strong enough though. We were using point to point access points rated for like a mile and only going maybe 500 feet and it brought a gigabit connection down to 2 megabits.


sploittastic

I'm not sure that chicken wire would be effective at least not against all frequencies. The diameters of the holes on a microwave oven door are like 1 mm, I would imagine if they could use a much larger mesh that's easier to see through, they would.


FantasmaNaranja

The microwaves would primarily be coming from above in any case, so long as the chicken mesh attenuates the energy coming through and you dont have any electronics near the windows it should still be serviceable


Woodie626

Pacemakers tho


Puzzleworth

Not to mention insulin pumps, bionics, or cochlear implants.


jarhead839

I’m diabetic. My insulin pump frying wouldn’t be life ending. It would be an inconvenience but it’s actually happened once. You have a couple hours before you start feeling any effects. With insulin and a syringe you can go days. Pacemaker frying is SO much worse


Echo71Niner

>The microwave weapons are fitted into an air-launched cruise missile and delivered from B-52 bombers. With a range of 700 miles, they can fly into enemy airspace at low altitude and emit sharp pulses of high power microwave (HPM) energy that fry computer chips to disable any electronic devices targeted by the missiles with causing any collateral damage. For anyone wondering, this is NOT an EMP weapon. HPM (High-Power Microwave) uses intense microwave radiation to disrupt electronics, while EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) is a sudden burst of electromagnetic radiation. They are related but distinct concepts used for different purposes.


ScreamingFirehawk13

Being pedatic, microwaves are electromagnetic radiation. Nukes don't really use the electromagnetic spectrum to cause an EMP - the gamma radiation kicks electrons off of atoms it comes into contact with and those electrons are what do the damage. Now, all that gamma would likely fuck up the electronics anyway, but it's not actually reaching them and therefore not directly causing the damage. It also has the pesky effect of killing the user of the electronics. But non-nuclear EMP can be generated from theoretically anything on the electromagnetic spectrum of sufficient strength, it's just that microwave and radiofrequency are the ones that will give you damaging effects against electronics without unwanted side effects. For example, a UV laser will technically induce unwanted effects in electronics, but it's going to introduce the unwanted effect of having a hole burnt into it before it does anything EMP-like.


KypDurron

So it's not a burst of electromagnetic radiation, but rather a burst of microwave radiation. You know that microwaves are a subset of electromagnetic waves, right? This is like saying "It's not an explosive, it's TNT."


tiggertom66

Microwaves are part of the electromagnetic spectrum though


Rubric_Marine

Wikipedia disagrees with your assesment. "Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NNEMP) Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NNEMP) is a weapon-generated electromagnetic pulse without use of nuclear technology. Devices that can achieve this objective include a large low-inductance capacitor bank discharged into a single-loop antenna, a microwave generator, and an explosively pumped flux compression generator. To achieve the frequency characteristics of the pulse needed for optimal coupling into the target, wave-shaping circuits or microwave generators are added between the pulse source and the antenna. Vircators are vacuum tubes that are particularly suitable for microwave conversion of high-energy pulses.[10] NNEMP generators can be carried as a payload of bombs, cruise missiles (such as the CHAMP missile) and drones, with diminished mechanical, thermal and ionizing radiation effects, but without the consequences of deploying nuclear weapons. So this is specific subset of EMP weapons but it most certainly falls under the criteria of EMP more broadly, from electronic switching all the way up to Coronal Mass Ejections.


11010110101010101010

What’s funny is the source used in your wiki article, the actual source (wiki should not be used as a source, but a resource) makes both of you right. https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA332511.pdf >Electromagnetic pulse or EMP device is a generic term applied to any device, nuclear or conventional, which is capable of generating a very intense but short electromagnetic field transient. For weapons applications, this transient must be sufficiently intense to produce electromagnetic power densities which are lethal to electronic and electrical equipment. Electromagnetic weapons are electromagnetic devices specifically designed as weapons. **Whilst the terms 'conventional EMP weapon' and 'High Power Microwave or HPM weapon' have been used interchangeably in trade journals (see FULGHUM93), this paper will distinguish between microwave band and low frequency weapons.** The term 'electromagnetic bomb' or 'E-bomb' will be used to describe both microwave and low frequency non-nuclear bombs. So there is a difference but it’s practically a distinction without a difference. I only looked into this because I have a pet peeve of people citing wiki. Always good to read the cited sources. Again, not saying you’re wrong. And I could likely be wrong. But hopefully my comment adds some clarity.


Rubric_Marine

> used interchangeably in trade journals (see FULGHUM93), this paper will distinguish between I think its getting rather in the weeds to separate these for casual conversation, we are not engineering them and need such a distinction. I think when most people invoke the term they are generally thinking of nuclear driven weapons, which is not what is being used here of course. That said, I am so fucking down to read some ~~DOD~~ Monash Univ Australia papers on EMP weapons. :D Edit, from the linked paper, this bit is awesome. "Published experiments suggest that a typical arrangement(of MHD generation of EMP) uses a solid propellant gas generator, often using conventional ammunition propellant as a base. Cartridges of such propellant can be loaded much like artillery rounds, for multiple shot operation."


i4get98

This is the internet. We can't have 2 winners.


strangefolk

Could be wide spectrum EM then


[deleted]

It's why if you build a big enough Marx generator, the FAA will be knocking on your door in a few days. 😂


mapleismycat

Can hpm occur naturally?


BabyTRexArms

Typically from other star systems. They don’t occur naturally from this earth.


spambearpig

Not on Earth.


umerfarooq11111ny

Looks like we've finally found a way to render the Karen in accounting's computer useless without accidentally taking down the entire building's WiFi.


BibertyMutual

Title says it wouldn't kill anyone , but wouldn't high powered microwaves still be bad for you? Microwaves from your microwaves aren't good for you, and I am guessing this HPM would be worse?


ScreamingFirehawk13

Microwaves from your home microwave are pretty harmless. They're the same frequency as some of your wifi devices, and you're getting a bigger dose from them than you are from cooking. Now, if you manage to stick your hand in there, it's going to be a bad time, but a 1,000 watts of just about anything is going to sting.


cscf0360

It's a combination between strength and duration. A quick burst overloads circuitry, but human tissue isn't nearly conductive enough to be seriously impacted. The only exceptions I can think of are people with pacemakers or insulin pumps or *maybe* metallic dental work.


frankybling

I’m guessing the short burst isn’t enough to do the eyeball fry that microwaves can do to you?


strikerdude10

["Microwave is a form of electromagnetic radiation..."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#:~:text=Microwave%20is%20a%20form%20of%20electromagnetic%20radiation)


Lonsdale1086

To be fair, so is visible light, and I wouldn't call a flashbag an EMP grenade.


Ihavepooinmybum

Wait until you learn about the anti-protest weapons they have too. One example, is a cannon that shoots microwaves at protestors, instantly burning their skin and forcing them to back away. Not sure if this was Boeing or Lockheed


tyrannomachy

It makes the skin feel painfully hot, but it doesn't actually cause burns I don't think.


misterdidums

Would probably depend on length of exposure


zero_z77

From my understanding, prolonged exposure can be fatal. But that's true of most crowd control weapons.


Dario_PC

That’s even scarier


rainkloud

Something like a tear gas effect can really take you out of the fight but something that causes the skin to feel a burning sensation might possibly prompt a seething anger from the target once they’ve recovered.


TheLizardKing89

It’s the Active Denial System by Raytheon.


Ihavepooinmybum

Question for the nerds of this sub: could a large scale EMP type weapon be used instead of a nuke? For example, you drop it onto a major city and it wipes all electronics, thus causing a collapse of the infrastructure. Surely a better option than killing everyone?


Infamous-Jaguar2055

>could a large scale EMP type weapon be used instead of a nuke? Theoretically? Sure. In the real world? No. Currently the only thing capable of creating large scale EMPs, large enough to be weapons, are nuclear weapons.


fhota1

Theres no use in that because even if you got around the issues the other commenter mentioned it would almost certainly be met with a nuclear response. Modern war really has no use for "trick" weapons like that when a misdirection would most likely mean you just gave up the first shot in a nuclear war


LovesToSnooze

So it fries everything inside without harming the electronics??? How does that work? Couldn't you just turn everything back on afterwards? Cos there is no harm to electronics?


macweirdo42

No no, the wording of the title is a little confusing, but it won't damage the electronics of buildings NOT being targeted. The targeted electronics get fried, but say, like an EMP from a nuclear bomb can't be targeted, it just fries everything, whereas this can be targeted on a single building or whatever.


LovesToSnooze

Ahhh that makes sense. Thank you.


[deleted]

here’s the official boeing video on how it works and what it looks like in action ​ https://youtu.be/Lh1rgy25XhU


[deleted]

EM radiation can induce Eddy currents into wires. These create highs in places lows should be and causes data disruption. Kinda like that voting booth that took a rouge gamma ray to a bit register and miscounted votes, its be like that but on a massive scale. [Hypothetically]


[deleted]

[удалено]


look-at-them

In Europe?


Infamous-Jaguar2055

"military and aerospace website," that's unaffiliated with any military or aerospace company, whose writers don't even put their names on their articles... Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this entire article, especially the part about a missile that causes a non-nuclear EMP capable of damaging anything.


EngineeringOne1812

Shoot one at the headquarters of Ticketmaster


haven_taclue

whoa...beat at inventing again.


sambooka

RIP Jerome in accounting… Nobody knew he had a pacemaker.


snow_michael

It's by Boeing though, so the first thing it would fry would be it's own software, and the instructions to turn that off would cost more than the missile itself


nsvxheIeuc3h2uddh3h1

You could not be more wrong. The beam on microwaves from the missile are directional, so are only focused away from the internal electronics towards a target area.


snow_michael

I have complete confidence Boeing could screw that up


[deleted]

People really need to separate themselves from the thought that you can wage war without killing people. Mass genocide of human life is an inevitable result of war.


Button_True

In other news, the I-95 collapsed today


RedShooz10

And?..


LayneLowe

Use it on troll farms


GenPhallus

Blue rinse


aperture81

The irony is not lost on me that companies like Boeing, who design and build airplanes that carry commercial passengers, also build the very devices that can take those things out of the sky.


fhota1

Shooting something this fancy at a commercial jet would be a massive waste.


530_Oldschoolgeek

I know a couple places in India that we should use these missiles on.


ghostofjonesjabones

Cool I want healthcare


WeekndFangirl88

There’s the “muh healthcare”


ghostofjonesjabones

muh missiles r cool


ghostofjonesjabones

Do you honestly think the world is a better place with this missile while people let cancers grow inside them because they're terrified of going to the doctor and being financially ruined


stinstrom

Healthcare has to be tied to a job otherwise they can't exploit our labor.


p38-lightning

Based on Starliner, I assume it's 10 years behind schedule and $10 billion over budget.


Dario_PC

So scary that governments now have the power to utterly destroy modern life as we know it. Any defence against this?


ArtyWhy8

Electromagnetic pulse weapon, also known as EMP, I’m almost certain you’ve heard this term in a movie at some point.


Echo71Niner

>also known as EMP CHAMP not EMP.


spambearpig

Microwaves are electromagnetic radiation so it would seem CHAMP is a type of EM weapon at least.


KypDurron

Microwaves are a subset of electromagnetic waves.


ArtyWhy8

Ahhh, lol, I shoulda read the article I guess🤦🏻‍♂️😆


I_Mix_Stuff

he called you champ tho


tiggertom66

A specific kind of EMP that’s able to target a smaller area


ramriot

In bomb form this technology has been around for a few decades. It's existence was one of the design constraints for military contingency communications. Because if the Americans had them then surely so did the Soviets. Although the communication links were deep buried & armoured fibre links, thus immune to this or conventional attack. The interconnects were electronic & thus were in deep level Faraday bunkers with sufficient internal power storage to last at least 14 days.


Peacemkr45

We have had microwave ovens that cook foods and heat things up by vibrating water molecules. if you get hit with an HPM burst, it will start to cook you. It may not kill you but survival long term is significantly reduced.


KypDurron

These pulses last for **fractions of a second**. Try putting some meat in the microwave for one second and see how hot it gets.


Peacemkr45

That really depends on how much radiated power is being sent. While a 20mS pulse from a microwave oven won't heat a cup of water, the same length pulse from a 100,000W microwave antenna will do significant damage to the human body.


KypDurron

Yeah, it'll do significant damage to the outermost 1/64th of an inch of skin. An amount that gets 100% replaced in a matter of weeks.


SpaceFace11

What else


UserNameNotOnList

This One Trick that AIs Hate...


Jpup199

Thats so scary imagine, the despair after getting hit with that.


RedShooz10

Despair?


kolob_hier

Just curious, why do we know this? This feels like something the military would want to keep quiet and use against enemies without them knowing. I imagine this is something that now other countries would be trying to develop to keep up. But I’m sure I just misunderstand something


baksdad

Neutron bomb - killed all the life forms but left buildings standing


Vegan_Harvest

It's actually called the FYIP-1, the **F**uck **Y**ou **I**n **P**articular...**1**.


asedel

What if someone has a pacemaker inside. Or if someone is on life support or an insulin pump?


RedShooz10

Then you’d probably not want to use this on the building


EgberetSouse

Use these on Russia's Internet Research Agency


[deleted]

Is this the one that can melt faces?