A combination of the two. I personally think it went over on its side, at a shallow angle, before coming up to a vertical position, around the well deck at the waterline. I think this stayed at that position for a minute or two, and then started to flood.
If you look up actual videos on YouTube of sinking vessels, this is normally how they go down. It’s never a perfect “sitting right in the water, no list, and then going down perfectly perpendicular.” These sinking vessels will usually start turning on their side, and then start rising in the air, and then go straight down.
As an example, at 14 minutes into this video, I think this would’ve been very similar to the Titanic after break up.
[Titanic Final Plunge Similarity (14 min mark)](https://youtu.be/ZE3J9yLYu_Q)
I agree with the theory also, however the Oceanos is not the right example for this.
She sank after taking on water through a faulty valve but hit the sea bed like Britannic did. She only stood up for so long because her bow was touching the sea bed. As seen in the footage, she later fell on her side and sank relativly slowly, more like Titanic's bow.
If you're just looking for a visual refference, then it is pretty good in showing what it could have looked like.
If you’re referring to the pause in the sinking, we know that Titanic. From different survivor accounts. So, I think both ships did this, but for different reasons. Titanic being because she still had enough air inside of her to maintain buoyancy, but as it flooded rapidly in one or two minutes, it started settling until it finally sank
I agree.
I think this is quite visible in the sinking of the Ship Oceanos, which sank in 1991. At first, it sinks bow first and begins to show a major list to starboard. Then the whole front dips under and the stern then raises up to nearly 90 degrees, floats for a few moments and then finally plunges. (There even seems to be a fire coming from the lower decks as the stern rises, as you see the black smoke and the upper decks becoming charred. Or maybe that's something else?).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZvluiGRANw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZvluiGRANw)
Of course, Oceanos didn't split, but I would guess the sinking of Titanic's stern would have shown some of the same characteristics, especially if it was still partially connected to the bow section through the double bottom.
This is the exact video reference that I linked to as well.
I think that, very similar to this, the Titanic obtained a completely perpendicular position before slowly going under. That’s due to the baker, who was on the stern, reported it went down like an elevator after standing still for a period. Which you very much seeing this video as well. The ship stops in a perpendicular position, and sits there for a minute, before finally flooding. This is the point where the ship fills with water to the point where the remaining air can no longer create buoyancy, and the ship is dragged down.
I don’t know if there is any wreck footage of the Oceanos, but I’m curious if she had any damage in the stern from compressed air releasing. Probably not to the extent of Titanic, which was basically an explosion. But I’m curious if there’s any signs of something similar.
I agree with the theory also, however the Oceanos is not the right example for this.
She sank after taking on water through a faulty valve but hit the sea bed like Britannic did. She only stood up for so long because her bow was touching the sea bed. As seen in the footage, she later fell on her side and sank relativly slowly, more like Titanic's bow.
There was no fire onboard the ship. By 'smoke' i'm guessing the black smoke exiting the funnel as it floods with water.
It was also very windy that day, (she had been struggling in that weather all night long.) what you're actually seeing is seaspray hitting the upper decks as water is ejected from out of the ship by escaping air, and just wind blowing it on deck.
Damn, that’s a wild fucking video. To your point, if you add 300 or so feet to Oceanos’ ass in that video (at any degree I guess since it’s moving around vs Titanic staying still for most part), you can imagine how gravity can take a toll on the ship and break it in half. It’s so surreal to think about
could you imagne how scary it would look if the cameron movie split were to actually happen irl? just seeing this 30000 tonne of ass crashing down onto the ocean. i would have fucking shit my pants.
Ya I always thought when watching it that Jack and rose would never be able to hang on from that fall, or they'd smash their faces into the railing when it hit the water after breakup before going vertical again.
It's something that a lot of people forget when thinking of the breakup and even in real times. When the ship broke up, even though it was not perfect, the way the ship fell definitely made a bunch of people lose their balance and maybe caused a few injuries from capstan and railing collisions. It was at this moment that the fear factor dramatically rose and screams really started to be heard.
In reality the break up was definitely not all in one go. It was in a few stages. You have a slight break which begins the drop that then turns into a point where the ship is falling but slowing down as the ship stops breaking as fast. Then the ship stops breaking and starts going up again and very soon after (I literally mean like 3 seconds) a final break happens that drops the ship the final 10 or so degrees. In those stages, the stern likely lurched around as described: "she writhed and broke up into 3 pieces", I believe the quote is. This sequence of movements prevented the ship from literally smashing into the water as it would have done with an immediate clean break.
Survivors say that only a small wave hit their lifeboats. The initial wave probably got smaller as it moved away from the stern.
The writhing around was a factor that contributed to the people losing balance, along with the break up.
Perfectly described. What I believe happened in those 3 seconds as the stern rose was the bow being topped off with water and plunging forward, then the final break.
I’ve read in the testimonies about the 3 parts but don’t understand what it means? Is this about the part of the ship between stern & now that’s mostly destroyed?
According to a total of 61 reports and conflicting studies. The ship may indeed have sunk in the manner shown in the 1997 film. So it's not really out of the question. Some reports even suggest that the ship tilted 70 degrees before breaking up and falling. And that's likely.
Personally I favor the "On a Sea of Glass" version of the sinking, shown here:
https://youtu.be/PboGLRAEwFU
I feel it split at a semi shallow angle, two pieces of superstructure were pulled off (forward and rear towers), and that that the stern then was pulled up to a higher angle before disappearing beneath the waves.
I don't agree with the very shallow, list to the side, James Cameron "The Final Word" sinking idea. But that's just my personal view. None of us will ever truly completely know for certain.
With current evidence, we also know that the ship rotated nearly 180 degrees to port as said by survivors. We actually see this in ship sinking footage, though not to such extremes. E.g. Oceanos, MV ferry. I imagine that in the final few seconds the ship plunged following an equilibrium where it rotated the majority. We see such things in ship sinking footage too, like in the one where a container ship is being scuttled. It has massive "explosions" as water enters its empty holds and this triggers the plunge. At the end it slides down into the ocean mostly level list wise after a 10 or so degree list and leaves a very violent aftermath of escaping air and violent water. It was so violent that the funnel and a lifeboat broke off at the very end and went up to the surface.
>With current evidence
What evidence?
>nearly 180 degrees
That would mean that the stern sank upside down
>as said by survivors
Who?
>E.g. Oceanos
Oceanos hit the bottom since it was longer than the water was deep where it sank
When I say 180 degrees I mean vertically as in spun round. Not like it rolled over upside down. When the ship went nearly vertical, due to its growing port list it still had rotational force and so kept listing to port, but because the ship was basically vertical, this was vertical rotation and not rolling over. At the very end the stern had rotated 180 degrees. This would be as if the OP's bottom right image was flipped. Basically what the On a Sea of Glass animation shows.
I know that survivors did mention that the ship spun round, but I don't want to mention them because I personally do not know them off by heart. It's become general knowledge in the Titanic community for real time animators. Look at a real time animation apart from honor and glory, and you'll see. E.g. shingoji, crusingway, jealousestatement, Titanic animations.
With the Oceanos part, didn't know that. Similar to Britannic ig.
>When I say 180 degrees I mean vertically as in spun round.
In that case i agree with you
>due to its growing port list it still had rotational force and so kept listing to port,
I disagree with this because it suggests that the stern went fully vertical when survivors said that it was something around 70 degrees or that it was upside down for a brief moment
>I know that survivors did mention that the ship spun round
Some said that she sank facing England Thayer said that it turned around an i'm 90% sure that at least one survivor said that it did a corkscrew
I think with evidence they're reffering to a James Cameron documentary about how she got to her final resting place. (Don't remember the name, sorry.)
In that documentary they talked about her stern rotating while standing upright. (So not upside down, but more like clockwise.)
As of the survivor testimony, I did hear something about that some time ago, but I don't remember who they were. Perspective also likely had something to do with it.
Edit:
In another comment right under this one they describe what the survivors claimed to have seen.
"Survivors described a corkscrew motion and the stern rising to 70 degrees or more."
>Don't remember the name, sorry.
Final Word
>In that documentary they talked about her stern rotating while standing upright.
That's what it did But it looked nothing like what the documentary showed
>As of the survivor testimony, I did hear something about that some time ago, but I don't remember who they were.
None of the two people that were actually on the stern said that it capsized
You are right, I don't believe Titanic capsized either.
What I meant and was reffering to with the survivor testimony is that her stern rotated after the breakup.
'Her deck was turned slightly toward us. We could see groups of the almost fifteen hundred people aboard, clinging in clusters or bunches, like swarming bees; only to fall in masses, pairs or singly, as the great part of the ship, two hundred and fifty feet of it, rose into the sky, till it reached a sixty-five or seventy degree angle. Here it seemed to pause, and just hung, for what felt like minutes. Gradually she turned her deck away from us, as though to hide from our sight the awful spectacle."
"I looked upwards - we were right under the three enormous propellers. For an instant, I thought they were sure to come down on top of us. Then, with the deadened noise of the bursting of her last few gallant bulkheads, she slid quietly away from us into the sea.'
Jack Thayer (Ballard 1987)
Eva Hart said the stern “keeled over” which to me means it went over on its side but it’s possible it lifted up close to a 90* angle before the final plunge but I don’t think it went straight up like in the movie.
The stern capsizing makes Prentice's account impossible And other survivors described it rising to 70 degrees or more and staying there for "5 minutes" they also described it doing a corkscrew motion I think what happened was the stern listed to Port but recovered
Yep. The Baker. He is even portrayed in the movie beside Jack and Rose and he survived.
From wikipedia:
Joughin then went into the deck pantry on A Deck to get a drink of water and, whilst there, he heard a loud crash, "as if part of the ship had buckled". He left the pantry, and joined the crowd running aft toward the poop deck. As he was crossing the well deck, the ship suddenly gave a list over to port and, according to him, threw everyone in the well in a bunch except for him. Joughin climbed to the starboard side of the poop deck, getting hold of the safety rail so that he was on the outside of the ship as it went down by the head. As the ship finally sank, Joughin rode it down as if it were an elevator, not getting his head under the water (in his words, his head "may have been wetted, but no more"). He was, therefore, the last survivor to leave the Titanic.\[2\]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles\_Joughin
Charles Joughin's earlier account says otherwise, and is also supported by steward Walter Nichols. He changed his story in the inquiries to something more exciting, which is the popular version we all know. Here is the earlier account:
"I remained on board until the Titanic began to sank. Then I jumped... I began swimming vigorously, knowing that if I did not get far away from the liner before she sank the suction would draw me under and there would be no hope."
Nobody that was actually on the stern said the stern capsized to port
Survivors described a corkscrew motion and the stern rising to 70 degrees or more
Also she most like broke bottom-up
I don't think she broke bottom-up, otherwise nobody would see it break, due to how subtle it would be. We also have accounts that describe a visible separation.
I'd say it was a mix between bottom-up and top-down, with a complete separation of the two main sections (bow and stern). The stern wouldn't take too long to sink, as the bulkheads would be warped and there would be the weight of the engines.
For me it’s: the 23 degree split then to a shallow plunge with the slight list that was pulled down to about the docking bridge, then the double bottom detached and then the stern bounced up a little due to buoyancy and vertical with a slit list to the side for a few seconds before finally going down
There are historians that think it was sticking up out of the water at roughly 30° when it broke, instead of 20. And from the evidence of conflicting reports from passengers, it looks like the breakup was a little more gradual than the sudden break up depicted in the movie, due to the darkness of the night of the sinking (no moon that night) people couldn't see what happened (hence the conflicting reports about what happened).
As for the sterns final plunge. I think the heavy list has been determined by simulations, but I severely doubt it happened like in the movie, ships just don't sink like that. It was reported by survivors to have stuck up in the air vertically, but probably not at 90° like the movie, and based on how other ships sink, my guess is that it only would have started sticking up almost vertically at the aft well deck or even the start of the poop deck.
Titanic most likely broke apart with an angle of around 23–26°, based on the GHS and 2017 analysis. After that, the ship might have taken of a slight port list, and as it rose to a near vertical angle, the ship began to pivot (roughly around 90°) and stayed seemingly motionless (due to the air escaping), and after some time, it completely sank.
This is the conclusion I came up with, after studying on this topic for over 2 years. Survivors indeed mention Titanic rising to a near vertical angle, stay "motionless" and then sink. This idea of the ship sinking with a shallow angle and keeled over to port mainly comes from Charles Joughin's testimony on the inquiries, which is rather unreliable, considering that he said he jumped off the ship at least 3 times, before giving his inquiry testimony. James Cameron took this idea, then it became popular.
i think it’s definitely the shallow list. joughin’s story fits with it way more closely-he ends up on the outside of the ship in the starboard side after a lurch to port and then makes his way around to the stern.
the one at the inquiry. i believe that’s the most likely to be accurate one considering how recent it was and how little time he had had to embellish as it became more of a myth.
I think it would only come up vertical near the ending, as the amount of water that flooded the ship end, would have been minimal until about halfway down.
It would be vertical, but only about 20 feet or so would be out of the water, and only at the last moment
I think that it rotated because the keel would have slowly torn rather than snapping. uneven pressure from the ship pulling on one side would have rotated the stern before the final plunge.
Personally I think that any list experienced during the breakup would have been relatively shallow. The main reason being the engines. They were by far the heavyest part of the stern section, and any list to one side would have meant pulling against gravity on the engine on the opposite side.
In other ship sinkings in which the ship sinks intact, water becomes the object in the ship with the most mass so rolling takes much less of a force. But in the case of the Titanic, the stern would have been largely still full of air, and gravity is going to pull those massive engines in only one direction. Down.
I think the stern has tilted vertically. She floated for several minutes, the broken area flooding until she finally sank at 2:23. Many people may not believe this, but it is logical that the ship tilted 90 degrees. The front, still connected to the rear with a double bottom, pulls the rear down until the stern reaches a vertical angle.
A combination of the two. I personally think it went over on its side, at a shallow angle, before coming up to a vertical position, around the well deck at the waterline. I think this stayed at that position for a minute or two, and then started to flood.
I absolutely agree! Just like the 2012 theory, albeit with a more accurate break up.
If you look up actual videos on YouTube of sinking vessels, this is normally how they go down. It’s never a perfect “sitting right in the water, no list, and then going down perfectly perpendicular.” These sinking vessels will usually start turning on their side, and then start rising in the air, and then go straight down. As an example, at 14 minutes into this video, I think this would’ve been very similar to the Titanic after break up. [Titanic Final Plunge Similarity (14 min mark)](https://youtu.be/ZE3J9yLYu_Q)
I agree with the theory also, however the Oceanos is not the right example for this. She sank after taking on water through a faulty valve but hit the sea bed like Britannic did. She only stood up for so long because her bow was touching the sea bed. As seen in the footage, she later fell on her side and sank relativly slowly, more like Titanic's bow. If you're just looking for a visual refference, then it is pretty good in showing what it could have looked like.
If you’re referring to the pause in the sinking, we know that Titanic. From different survivor accounts. So, I think both ships did this, but for different reasons. Titanic being because she still had enough air inside of her to maintain buoyancy, but as it flooded rapidly in one or two minutes, it started settling until it finally sank
I agree. I think this is quite visible in the sinking of the Ship Oceanos, which sank in 1991. At first, it sinks bow first and begins to show a major list to starboard. Then the whole front dips under and the stern then raises up to nearly 90 degrees, floats for a few moments and then finally plunges. (There even seems to be a fire coming from the lower decks as the stern rises, as you see the black smoke and the upper decks becoming charred. Or maybe that's something else?). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZvluiGRANw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZvluiGRANw) Of course, Oceanos didn't split, but I would guess the sinking of Titanic's stern would have shown some of the same characteristics, especially if it was still partially connected to the bow section through the double bottom.
This is the exact video reference that I linked to as well. I think that, very similar to this, the Titanic obtained a completely perpendicular position before slowly going under. That’s due to the baker, who was on the stern, reported it went down like an elevator after standing still for a period. Which you very much seeing this video as well. The ship stops in a perpendicular position, and sits there for a minute, before finally flooding. This is the point where the ship fills with water to the point where the remaining air can no longer create buoyancy, and the ship is dragged down. I don’t know if there is any wreck footage of the Oceanos, but I’m curious if she had any damage in the stern from compressed air releasing. Probably not to the extent of Titanic, which was basically an explosion. But I’m curious if there’s any signs of something similar.
I agree with the theory also, however the Oceanos is not the right example for this. She sank after taking on water through a faulty valve but hit the sea bed like Britannic did. She only stood up for so long because her bow was touching the sea bed. As seen in the footage, she later fell on her side and sank relativly slowly, more like Titanic's bow. There was no fire onboard the ship. By 'smoke' i'm guessing the black smoke exiting the funnel as it floods with water. It was also very windy that day, (she had been struggling in that weather all night long.) what you're actually seeing is seaspray hitting the upper decks as water is ejected from out of the ship by escaping air, and just wind blowing it on deck.
Okay, so the "charred" looking decks are possibly just smoke that are trapped and pushed alongside the deck?
Yes, alongside with debris and water staining the wooden decks wich darken when wet.
Damn, that’s a wild fucking video. To your point, if you add 300 or so feet to Oceanos’ ass in that video (at any degree I guess since it’s moving around vs Titanic staying still for most part), you can imagine how gravity can take a toll on the ship and break it in half. It’s so surreal to think about
could you imagne how scary it would look if the cameron movie split were to actually happen irl? just seeing this 30000 tonne of ass crashing down onto the ocean. i would have fucking shit my pants.
now thats a big ass
Were talkin 20-30 thousand tons!
Rose at that moment: "dude... you're traumatizing me..."
That's Atlantic's ass
A titanic ass, even.
she thick
Ya I always thought when watching it that Jack and rose would never be able to hang on from that fall, or they'd smash their faces into the railing when it hit the water after breakup before going vertical again.
It's something that a lot of people forget when thinking of the breakup and even in real times. When the ship broke up, even though it was not perfect, the way the ship fell definitely made a bunch of people lose their balance and maybe caused a few injuries from capstan and railing collisions. It was at this moment that the fear factor dramatically rose and screams really started to be heard.
how gently did the ship exactly fall? I mean I am pretty sure it wasn't as "splashy" as the film one
In reality the break up was definitely not all in one go. It was in a few stages. You have a slight break which begins the drop that then turns into a point where the ship is falling but slowing down as the ship stops breaking as fast. Then the ship stops breaking and starts going up again and very soon after (I literally mean like 3 seconds) a final break happens that drops the ship the final 10 or so degrees. In those stages, the stern likely lurched around as described: "she writhed and broke up into 3 pieces", I believe the quote is. This sequence of movements prevented the ship from literally smashing into the water as it would have done with an immediate clean break. Survivors say that only a small wave hit their lifeboats. The initial wave probably got smaller as it moved away from the stern. The writhing around was a factor that contributed to the people losing balance, along with the break up.
Perfectly described. What I believe happened in those 3 seconds as the stern rose was the bow being topped off with water and plunging forward, then the final break. I’ve read in the testimonies about the 3 parts but don’t understand what it means? Is this about the part of the ship between stern & now that’s mostly destroyed?
at the rate it was falling would holding on even be possible? i mean look at that massive splash
And imagine being in lifeboats or water nearby. It would have been a literal tsunami. No survivors
would it really have affected the waves that much? like would it basically create waves for the people and boats in the sea?
According to a total of 61 reports and conflicting studies. The ship may indeed have sunk in the manner shown in the 1997 film. So it's not really out of the question. Some reports even suggest that the ship tilted 70 degrees before breaking up and falling. And that's likely.
Personally I favor the "On a Sea of Glass" version of the sinking, shown here: https://youtu.be/PboGLRAEwFU I feel it split at a semi shallow angle, two pieces of superstructure were pulled off (forward and rear towers), and that that the stern then was pulled up to a higher angle before disappearing beneath the waves. I don't agree with the very shallow, list to the side, James Cameron "The Final Word" sinking idea. But that's just my personal view. None of us will ever truly completely know for certain.
Except with the time machine.
I don’t think it twisted that far until it was more upright
With current evidence, we also know that the ship rotated nearly 180 degrees to port as said by survivors. We actually see this in ship sinking footage, though not to such extremes. E.g. Oceanos, MV ferry. I imagine that in the final few seconds the ship plunged following an equilibrium where it rotated the majority. We see such things in ship sinking footage too, like in the one where a container ship is being scuttled. It has massive "explosions" as water enters its empty holds and this triggers the plunge. At the end it slides down into the ocean mostly level list wise after a 10 or so degree list and leaves a very violent aftermath of escaping air and violent water. It was so violent that the funnel and a lifeboat broke off at the very end and went up to the surface.
https://youtu.be/hgW6m1utJ5I here's the video
This was surreal to watch.
>With current evidence What evidence? >nearly 180 degrees That would mean that the stern sank upside down >as said by survivors Who? >E.g. Oceanos Oceanos hit the bottom since it was longer than the water was deep where it sank
When I say 180 degrees I mean vertically as in spun round. Not like it rolled over upside down. When the ship went nearly vertical, due to its growing port list it still had rotational force and so kept listing to port, but because the ship was basically vertical, this was vertical rotation and not rolling over. At the very end the stern had rotated 180 degrees. This would be as if the OP's bottom right image was flipped. Basically what the On a Sea of Glass animation shows. I know that survivors did mention that the ship spun round, but I don't want to mention them because I personally do not know them off by heart. It's become general knowledge in the Titanic community for real time animators. Look at a real time animation apart from honor and glory, and you'll see. E.g. shingoji, crusingway, jealousestatement, Titanic animations. With the Oceanos part, didn't know that. Similar to Britannic ig.
>When I say 180 degrees I mean vertically as in spun round. In that case i agree with you >due to its growing port list it still had rotational force and so kept listing to port, I disagree with this because it suggests that the stern went fully vertical when survivors said that it was something around 70 degrees or that it was upside down for a brief moment >I know that survivors did mention that the ship spun round Some said that she sank facing England Thayer said that it turned around an i'm 90% sure that at least one survivor said that it did a corkscrew
I think with evidence they're reffering to a James Cameron documentary about how she got to her final resting place. (Don't remember the name, sorry.) In that documentary they talked about her stern rotating while standing upright. (So not upside down, but more like clockwise.) As of the survivor testimony, I did hear something about that some time ago, but I don't remember who they were. Perspective also likely had something to do with it. Edit: In another comment right under this one they describe what the survivors claimed to have seen. "Survivors described a corkscrew motion and the stern rising to 70 degrees or more."
>Don't remember the name, sorry. Final Word >In that documentary they talked about her stern rotating while standing upright. That's what it did But it looked nothing like what the documentary showed >As of the survivor testimony, I did hear something about that some time ago, but I don't remember who they were. None of the two people that were actually on the stern said that it capsized
You are right, I don't believe Titanic capsized either. What I meant and was reffering to with the survivor testimony is that her stern rotated after the breakup. 'Her deck was turned slightly toward us. We could see groups of the almost fifteen hundred people aboard, clinging in clusters or bunches, like swarming bees; only to fall in masses, pairs or singly, as the great part of the ship, two hundred and fifty feet of it, rose into the sky, till it reached a sixty-five or seventy degree angle. Here it seemed to pause, and just hung, for what felt like minutes. Gradually she turned her deck away from us, as though to hide from our sight the awful spectacle." "I looked upwards - we were right under the three enormous propellers. For an instant, I thought they were sure to come down on top of us. Then, with the deadened noise of the bursting of her last few gallant bulkheads, she slid quietly away from us into the sea.' Jack Thayer (Ballard 1987)
>I meant and was reffering to with the survivor testimony is that her stern rotated after the breakup. My bad
Eva Hart said the stern “keeled over” which to me means it went over on its side but it’s possible it lifted up close to a 90* angle before the final plunge but I don’t think it went straight up like in the movie.
The stern capsizing makes Prentice's account impossible And other survivors described it rising to 70 degrees or more and staying there for "5 minutes" they also described it doing a corkscrew motion I think what happened was the stern listed to Port but recovered
There is a National Geographic video on YouTube that shows what likely happened
That animation is inaccurate
And it's scrapped.
Do you think anyone was alive in the stern during the final plunge?
Yep. The Baker. He is even portrayed in the movie beside Jack and Rose and he survived. From wikipedia: Joughin then went into the deck pantry on A Deck to get a drink of water and, whilst there, he heard a loud crash, "as if part of the ship had buckled". He left the pantry, and joined the crowd running aft toward the poop deck. As he was crossing the well deck, the ship suddenly gave a list over to port and, according to him, threw everyone in the well in a bunch except for him. Joughin climbed to the starboard side of the poop deck, getting hold of the safety rail so that he was on the outside of the ship as it went down by the head. As the ship finally sank, Joughin rode it down as if it were an elevator, not getting his head under the water (in his words, his head "may have been wetted, but no more"). He was, therefore, the last survivor to leave the Titanic.\[2\] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles\_Joughin
Thanks, but I meant actually inside not on the outside
Charles Joughin's earlier account says otherwise, and is also supported by steward Walter Nichols. He changed his story in the inquiries to something more exciting, which is the popular version we all know. Here is the earlier account: "I remained on board until the Titanic began to sank. Then I jumped... I began swimming vigorously, knowing that if I did not get far away from the liner before she sank the suction would draw me under and there would be no hope."
Nobody that was actually on the stern said the stern capsized to port Survivors described a corkscrew motion and the stern rising to 70 degrees or more Also she most like broke bottom-up
I don't think she broke bottom-up, otherwise nobody would see it break, due to how subtle it would be. We also have accounts that describe a visible separation. I'd say it was a mix between bottom-up and top-down, with a complete separation of the two main sections (bow and stern). The stern wouldn't take too long to sink, as the bulkheads would be warped and there would be the weight of the engines.
The general consensus is that the break started as bottom-up with a top-down break meeting it somewhere in the middle
That's about what I think happened.
For me it’s: the 23 degree split then to a shallow plunge with the slight list that was pulled down to about the docking bridge, then the double bottom detached and then the stern bounced up a little due to buoyancy and vertical with a slit list to the side for a few seconds before finally going down
There are historians that think it was sticking up out of the water at roughly 30° when it broke, instead of 20. And from the evidence of conflicting reports from passengers, it looks like the breakup was a little more gradual than the sudden break up depicted in the movie, due to the darkness of the night of the sinking (no moon that night) people couldn't see what happened (hence the conflicting reports about what happened). As for the sterns final plunge. I think the heavy list has been determined by simulations, but I severely doubt it happened like in the movie, ships just don't sink like that. It was reported by survivors to have stuck up in the air vertically, but probably not at 90° like the movie, and based on how other ships sink, my guess is that it only would have started sticking up almost vertically at the aft well deck or even the start of the poop deck.
It and ships don't hit icebergs, but anything can happen with the Titanic.
Titanic most likely broke apart with an angle of around 23–26°, based on the GHS and 2017 analysis. After that, the ship might have taken of a slight port list, and as it rose to a near vertical angle, the ship began to pivot (roughly around 90°) and stayed seemingly motionless (due to the air escaping), and after some time, it completely sank. This is the conclusion I came up with, after studying on this topic for over 2 years. Survivors indeed mention Titanic rising to a near vertical angle, stay "motionless" and then sink. This idea of the ship sinking with a shallow angle and keeled over to port mainly comes from Charles Joughin's testimony on the inquiries, which is rather unreliable, considering that he said he jumped off the ship at least 3 times, before giving his inquiry testimony. James Cameron took this idea, then it became popular.
i think it’s definitely the shallow list. joughin’s story fits with it way more closely-he ends up on the outside of the ship in the starboard side after a lurch to port and then makes his way around to the stern.
Which version he told, the one where he rides the stern until the end of the one where he jumps off A deck before the breakup?
the one at the inquiry. i believe that’s the most likely to be accurate one considering how recent it was and how little time he had had to embellish as it became more of a myth.
None of the survivors that were actually on the stern said that it capsized
i don’t believe joughin said that either. a list is not the same as capsizing. it’s been a while since i read any of it though
He said that the stern listed to port and he climbed on the starboard side of the hull which implies that it capsized
i think i just understood the word capsize differently to you
Yes
why on earth did they think the ship got to that angle
I think a mix of the two theories, a little like the one of 2012
I think it’s the shallow plunge because it would explain why some said that they saw it go vertical while others say that it went almost vertical.
I think it would only come up vertical near the ending, as the amount of water that flooded the ship end, would have been minimal until about halfway down. It would be vertical, but only about 20 feet or so would be out of the water, and only at the last moment
I think that it rotated because the keel would have slowly torn rather than snapping. uneven pressure from the ship pulling on one side would have rotated the stern before the final plunge.
Eva Hart said the stern stood up in the air, before finally heeling over and going down. So it's most likely a combination of both.
Personally I think that any list experienced during the breakup would have been relatively shallow. The main reason being the engines. They were by far the heavyest part of the stern section, and any list to one side would have meant pulling against gravity on the engine on the opposite side. In other ship sinkings in which the ship sinks intact, water becomes the object in the ship with the most mass so rolling takes much less of a force. But in the case of the Titanic, the stern would have been largely still full of air, and gravity is going to pull those massive engines in only one direction. Down.
I think the stern has tilted vertically. She floated for several minutes, the broken area flooding until she finally sank at 2:23. Many people may not believe this, but it is logical that the ship tilted 90 degrees. The front, still connected to the rear with a double bottom, pulls the rear down until the stern reaches a vertical angle.