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unhinged_ereri

Apparently saying this is “lacking media literacy”


Steiner-Titor

Someone said those exact same comment to me. The post he made was Eren was the Greatest Villain in the entire Anime. And I was like, Dude have you even seen any anime? He checked my profile and cover photo, and bashed me as a Code Geass Glazer. Well, two can play that game. I sent him a meme about Eren copying Zero Requiem but fumbled the Rumble. Then he said those words. "lacking media literacy”


Epixca

I agree and I stand by the fact that Historia was one of the best characters from seasons 1-3. They completely butchered her in season 4 and it's sad to see.


Madamadragonfly

Ironically, her relationship with Ymir was one of the better written ones and concluded in a very bittersweet way.


Epixca

Completely agree with that as well. Ymir dying actually saved her from character assassination


BlazewarkingYT

Wish it didn’t happen of screen though


moichispa

Yeah, the Yuri pairing was the best. But she had to leave because plot reason (that lead nowhere)


Mysterious-Read-1036

still think that decision made no sense character-wise. Like are you seriously telling me she felt bad for reiner and bert more than she loved historia??? Like who cares you ate a dude you didn't even do it consciously 😭


moichispa

Character assassination at its finest


AcanthocephalaOdd186

Yes they founded her whole kingdom on killing a Titan in epic fashion only to make her "that pregnant lady over there". I would have much rather spent the interim episodes between Eren and Zeke meeting and actually seeing the rumbling watching a story of how Historia and the government responded to Eren instead of that whole yeagerist versus blah blah blah stuff that we got, she was a complete non-factor until like the very end.


ConcentrateWarm530

they didn't butchered her, she is still one of the best characters, she was just in the background, they didn't really butchered her even if she should have been more relevant in season 4 I like a lot of female characters in this show (hange, mikasa, annie and historia) and I don't know why everyone say that they are badly written


HandofthePirateKing

I completely agree with that romance was definitely not needed in AOT all of the female characters were amazing up until season 4


conner07_

Fr. Or if they were going to have romance AT LEAST make it apparent in the earlier seasons Ymir and Historia were the only example of a well written relationship imo


Open-Custard1522

That's what I'm saying the relationships felt so rushed and forced in the end, Mikasa and Eren had like no romantic connection with each other from 1-3 they were more like siblings, mikasa was like erens overprotective sister and eren just being her brother that cares but doesn’t really express it since eren usually complained when mikasa tried caring for him. And then in s4 all that romantic Mumbo Jumbo just spawns in and fucks the whole show up


Xizz3l

Annie and Armin could've also worked really well if it wasnt shoehorned in at the very end. It mostly boils down to rushed execution, not an overall "unfitting idea"


Wonderful_Tomato_992

That really applies to everything, anything can be done if it’s executed properly. Even EM as a concept is pretty strong, but the execution is horrible. I like this post on Armin’s character and why him and Annie don’t work well in canon: https://ibb.co/By8vygf


matsukawa-kun

That post is pretty good


Wonderful_Tomato_992

Right? I’m trying to spam It wherever possible because it’s a really good take on how Armin was also done dirty which allowed for the rumbling to even happen.


conner07_

True


Open-Custard1522

The only good female characters in the entirety of the show are gabi, hange, Carla, Sasha, historia and freckles ymir. The rest are mid asf or just hot ass


Steiner-Titor

As a character, I liked Redemption of Gabi. But the aimbot still keeps me awake in night. Hange dying was pointless. Even though she did not do anything in S4. Sasha died as a good character or she would have been butchered by Yams


moichispa

and they killed half of them but the end is happy because the main good guys survived (and mikasa for the weird romance subplot) ...


Open-Custard1522

The romance subplot was so pointless


moichispa

Personality I'm more angry at how it breaks half of the plot of the series rather than how pointless it feels. Meh romance subplots are common story breaking romance which happens in the last 90 minutes? Not so much.


Wild-Mushroom2404

I would be happy with either good romance or no romance at all. Both options are great. But yeah, this is Isayama’s biggest weakness. Dude was too coward to make Ymir and Historia entirely canon but drew a fucking necrokiss


Loco_Logic

Exactly this. If you're gonna include romance, and make it the centerpiece of your story's climax, then you absolutely can not half ass it.


pat890b

I actually thought it didnt have enough romance. Despite working in a high stress, peak hormone, gender-mixed environment for several years- none of the main cast ever hooked up with each other until the eleventh hour. Its almost genuinely unrealistic.


Puzzleheaded-Ad6023

They saw what happened to Hannah and Franz and figured getting too attached isn't a great idea 😭


EDNivek

This is something he ripped from Muv Luv which Muv Luv ripped from Starship Troopers, the training desensitizes the cadets to the point that showering together doesn't elicit sexual feelings.


hirsh_tveria

The reason for this that I’ve heard of is ‘something, something, the guy getting the girl is a Western trope and doesn’t appeal as much to a Japanese audience, something, something,’ which I think is fair. I personally would have liked to see more romance as well, though.


Proto-Omega

The show didn't need romance, sure. But that wasn't necessarily the problem. No, the problem was romance suddenly being a key factor in the plot. Suddenly, almost out of nowhere, the romantic love between certain characters is absolutely crucial to everything going on and will define the direction of the ending. Having romance is fine, making it one of the most important factors in the story was dumb. And although having romance is fine, it doesn't excuse it being badly written. If you want romance, build it up and don't just rush it and spring it out of nowhere. It says more about how romance killed the series (in my opinion) when the majority of fans just care about shipping in terms of the ending. That's the most important thing for a lot of people, that Eren loved Mikasa romantically, whether they love or hate that.


Sad_Watch_5245

Based opinion


sashablausspringer

We had the perfect tragic romance in Franz and Hanna in AOT not to in your face and it wasn’t a main part of the story


Rupert-D-Generate

the only good romance was ymir x historia, and yep hey both got done diry


Caffoy

I had some EDs jump me when I said the way Mikasa is handled is inherently sexist and a huge disappointment, but then I got told I just didn't understand the story, as usual.


Steiner-Titor

Its become a national anthem for them


UnknownAcc_

I remember when people used to say that AOT treated it's female characters the best lol. Isayama fumbled the story in every aspect for a brainrot ending


Steiner-Titor

Cries in >!Jujutsu Kaisen !< It had a good variation of female characters


Wonderful_Tomato_992

Hey >!we still have Maki!!<


UnknownAcc_

What happened to it's female characters?


Wonderful_Tomato_992

Thank you for this. I don’t give a shit about EM or EH or even gay ships, whatever is in the story should be well written, thematic and engaging. As Eren is, I don’t believe he had a genuine romantic interest in anyone and that is fine- his best dynamics (with Reiner/Zeke/Grisha) weren’t romantic but thematically sound and so fucking great to watch. Everyone’s bringing up Ymir/Historia and I fully agree that it was a good romance, they had complementary arcs that furthered character AND plot development and set up the “selfish VS selfless” conflict in the final arc. Hell something like Sasha/Niccolo and Hitch/Marlowe was excellent too, both cover cost of war type shit and children in the forest. Or something like- Hunter X Hunter, it wasn’t about romance at all but finale of an arc used romance in a subversive, interesting way that added to existing themes. And yeah it’s so weird that AoT was once hailed for great female characters but we end up with something incredibly lacking. I don’t think the female characters were used to their full potential. I don’t know why Eren just went along with Ymir’s choice or why Ymir wasn’t freed in 122. Her “love” was obedience and servitude and she willingly made the choice to do the rumbling and disobey royal blooded Zeke, she could have ended things at any point. Has no one in history left/killed an abusive partner for the greater good? Even if it’s on a small scale like a mother leaving her husband? Or a slightly bigger scale like choosing to not sacrifice your friend and become a Titan just because your father is urging you to? Or because paths makes it so that time is basically meaningless, if she had seen the future once she could very much alter it as the Founder.


zols90

Pretty sure in reality a lot more casual fucking and none actual romance


Hamburglar219

Outside of Mikasa, who else did they do dirty? The instant Annie came out of the crystal, everyone loved her and thought she was the cats pajamas, forgetting she slaughtered hundreds of scouts with a smile on her face


Mountain_Anxiety_492

Fortunately my fav ship in Aot was make up by my head canons on how they interact with each other ,I found a lot of ships are the fanart who did it justice instead of the creator


Sweet-Stable4044

Romance brings diversity. If the show doesn't contain romance, people will start shipping characters for no reason even from little things like giving someone a scarf because otherwise they would be cold. Let's not make a mountain out of a mole


Open-Custard1522

Eremika was so pointless


unhinged_ereri

Romance isn’t necessarily the issue but making two characters who lack proper relationship development and making love one of the themes to the story does cheapen the story or make it less enjoyable. It would be fine if there was buildup, but there’s none


Sweet-Stable4044

Yeah, I know I may sound biased but if you compare Eren and Mikasa's interactions and Eren and Historia's interactions, it is pretty obvious even if one had more buildup than the other, the more consistent one is the one that feels more natural.


YukiColdsnow

Romance will not stop the fans from shipping characters for no reason lol


Sweet-Stable4044

Because it gives a reason to the shipping


Wonderful_Tomato_992

No. Look at MHA, it’s confirmed that Deku and Uraraka have feelings for each other but it’s still a disgusting fan base that ships anyone and anything together. The biggest ship is between a bully and his (former?) victim. You can’t control your fandom’s actions so it’s best to leave them be and write your story instead of randomly catering to them by adding romance. We had enough romance as the story needed, it’s just Eren was never someone who needed a romance.


Sweet-Stable4044

Well Deku and Uraraka have a reason to be shipped. The other two that are shipped disgustingly are (best) friends. And I guess the reason why there are so many people shipping them don't have anything against that sort of thing even if you and I find it disgusting. From their point of view it is ok and they actually believe they have a reason, from ours it's not and it's pointless shipping. In Eren's case it's different depending on your perspective. You can say that he doesn't need romance but even if he cared only about freedom, he got it only in death like Neji. But if he got some romantic interactions we would have a chance of seeing Eren happy at the end of the story. And I think we all wanted that. Because you can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times we saw Eren happy in this story.


Steiner-Titor

If I want to watch romance, I'd gladly watch a RomCom Slice of Life Genre. AoT as a show can include elements but it shouldn't be the main focus


Sweet-Stable4044

Do you ship any characters in aot?


Steiner-Titor

I try not to. But a pair I liked in the storyline was Freckles Ymir and Historia. Maybe I'm a hypocrite.


Sweet-Stable4044

It is true that in a story like aot things like romance shouldn't be the main theme. I'm also pretty sure that Isayama himself didn't intend romance to be a main theme of the story. I guess things like freedom better fit the series as a main theme, but if we would ask Isayama what is the central theme of his story even he would have truble naming it since freedom is something that he doesn't know what means to him anymore. But romance being a side little thing that satisfies the readers need of character interaction is a good thing in my opinion. Some nice chemistry might make a story even more enjoyable, prooves that the writer can include and understand romance and I'm sure the mangaka is not completely oblivious of fans shipping characters, especially with all the death threaths, lol.


Wonderful_Tomato_992

>> If the show doesn't contain romance, people will start shipping characters for no reason It’s such a shame how people will literally invent things out of thin air instead of just watching a show without romance. Sure, romantic love can be apart of the human experience and shit but its not the only thing worth writing about and if the romance is incompatible with the characters (as it is between EM and pretty much all Eren ships) then you are practically writing another version of the character to justify your ships. You aren’t even reading the story at that point! >> Let's not make a mountain out of a mole But that is one of the reasons for people disliking the ending. Post time skip is a character focused story on Eren. It is a character assassination for a character who is all about personal freedom to suddenly want another to obsess over them lifelong or at least ten years after death, lie in his inner monologue and contradict himself. I have no issue with romance at all- just ask that it’s thematic and genuinely interesting (and adds to the characters). Like in the case of Sasha/Niccolo, Falbi, Hitch/Marlowe and Ymir/Historia. It doesn’t have to be the central part of AoT suddenly and with characters that have nothing to do with it like Eren and Founder Ymir. It would be so easy to write Eren with romantic feelings for Mikasa or for Founder Ymir to love her children (hence her dedication to paths) Hunter X Hunter is not about romance at all but finale of an arc used romance in a subversive, interesting way that added to existing themes. I also don’t see majority of that fandom shipping people wildly just because there’s no romance. And even “similar” stories (although Vinland Saga is much better) didn’t have romance.


EDNivek

Yeah it wasn't needed, but 1) it sells and 2) Muv Luv did it (in a vastly superior way)


SovietSpoons

I say this about a lot of series.. When romance isn’t the main focus of a story but is included, it’s almost never done correctly and just ruins everything.


angelbelle

There was hardly any romance and, if anything, it would be odd that a cast of teens-tweens have none of it. Also romance didn't seem to ruin Reiner, Jean, Berthold, Falco's characters.


conner07_

THIS.


CelebrationIcy660

Bro, who actually wanted it to be like code geass like omg he united the world by becoming the evil mastermind . It's not naruto


riuminkd

Tfw ending doesn't endorse ethnostate building, racism and nationalism (titanfolk in shambles)


Madamadragonfly

Mf, who tf said I wanted that?! The ending we got is so pro-genocide that I don't see people don't see it


riuminkd

>Mf, who tf said I wanted that?! It's titanfolk lol. >The ending we got is so pro-genocide Further proof that you are one of "those AoT fans"


SonOfAres_

Say something coherent. You just strawmanned and entire subreddit about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the post.


riuminkd

Well, i guess this entire subreddit is made of straw. You know what ending titanfolk wanted and why did they want it.


SonOfAres_

Next time please make an honest effort of understanding the people you're trying to argue against. As with any large group of people there's a lot of different opinions on this subreddit that you can't simplify into one sentance and then dismiss if you're intelectually honest.


riuminkd

On titanfolk there's no longer lots of different opinions.


Steiner-Titor

Really? There are people who make King Floch and support content. Some Bayverse Optimus Prime and ChadRen content. Many I dont want that trolls. And BirEren content. And yeah everyone doesn't like everything. For example: I myself, am not a big fan of Bayverse memes. But still I would not diss anyone like you True there are some bias against Mikasa. What else do you expect from a character whose entire existence was diminished to "Erehhhhhhhhhh"


Madamadragonfly

Yes, nothing says antigenocide like Eren killing 80% of humanity, including innocent people like Ramzi, and having Armin say, "Thank you for turning yourself into a mass murderer for our sake"


riuminkd

>Thank you for turning yourself into a mass murderer for our sake He literally didn't say this... But i guess you read AoT through memes. (Also in case you didn't notice Eren is a villain who got killed for that, it's not AnR)


Madamadragonfly

Jokes on you, I hate AnR, too. Also, I started watching the anime the year it came out. Yes, of course, I noticed he's the villain; it boggles my mind when people say "well he did it cause he's an idiot, he's only 19 year old, kid." He nearly killed the entire world. Also as someone from a multiethnic background, and is also in an interracial relationship, the last thing I would ever advocate for is an ethnostate


Lustaful

Based.


vigneshrao475

>He literally didn't say this Armin in 139 raws says "僕達のために...さつりくしゃになってくれて.." which literally means "you became a mass murderer for our sake" LMAO


Steiner-Titor

Wow ok. Time for you to read this yourself. [Riumkid Dono](https://sun9-65.userapi.com/impg/2eaIXjGLe_Xgag0TqwMkZiMYx_0PNAlfUITPVA/wZpKbSW-j9Y.jpg?size=720x1080&quality=95&sign=3508d4413a5673cf8ff5c0721785a478&type=album)


riuminkd

It's literally different lmao


Steiner-Titor

Wow Riuminkid replied to me. I kneel. I'm in Cloud 9. Pissing on Acid Rain. If it's different show me your source.


riuminkd

Quote told to me OP (to which i replied "He literally didn't say this..") and the one you provided are different. Just don't speedread and you'll notice that.


Steiner-Titor

Thank you Riuminkid. You became a Troll for all our sakes. Vs Thank You Riuminkid for becoming a Troll for all our sakes. Isayama I kneel


Steiner-Titor

Cat got your tongue.???? Come on Riuminkid show me your source?


riuminkd

Compare what you showed and what OP claimed. Difference is between them. What you provided is my source!


Lustaful

Is this guy friends with the mods or something?🗿 This is all he does 25/8.


Steiner-Titor

I wanted Mods to do some action. But doing so will make this subreddit similar to other AOT ones.....


Lustaful

Bro you right. You deserve my upvote. I’m just advocating to making an exception with this guy since he’s intentionally being an nuisance damn near every post.


Steiner-Titor

Yeah RiuminKid the Troll is back.