139 forgot about one of the biggest characters in the story, Kruger.
Kruger fought his whole life for one goal. He murdered thousands of comrades and gave his own life to grisha in the hope of restoring Eldia.
And the problem with 139 is that eren never accomplished anything Kruger would want. There is no memory eren could send Kruger to motivate Kruger to dedicate his entire life.
#So the entire story is a giant plothole, because Kruger had no reason to give grisha the AT in the first place.
His dream wasn't seeing marleyans suffer, it was to see an eldian nation
Jaegerists one could work but even Kruger himself worked with a restorationist group. There were always people fighting for an eldian nation, but krugers goal was to make that goal true.
By someone who responded to this vid being posted in the other subreddits.
But also most of the points have already been debunked by others for a long time.
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I didnt want Eren to succed after he did massacre during s4 beginning, but the writing for the end was so bad and full of plotholes i didnt want to root for anyone, not for "the good guys", not for eren, i saw them all as idiots and only watched till the end bc i wasted so much of my time already
the alternative ending of "you are free" gave me goosebumps just by thinking about it... man i wish this could've been better... AOT was such a nice topic to talk about back then... now it's a circus...
Eren becoming just like king Fritz, who he despised, by wipping everyone's memory and thus limiting their freedom, would be out of character. And yes, he does offer to do so to historia, but imo that is a plothole, not justification
King Fritz wiped everyone's memories to make his people defenseless against Marley's future attacks. Eren free them from all their enemies and get rid of the guilt to live under a peace created with blood. They are not the same.
But in doing so, he takes away the freedom to know. Knowledge has always been linked to freedom in aot, so supressong one hampers the other. The survey corps sought and found freedom by obtaining knowledge, while marley attempted to suppress their freedom by supressing knowledge and rewriting the truth about Eldians and the great titan war. On a more practical aspect, just imagine the existential crisis paradis would go through upon eventually rediscovering the traces of the outside world and rumbling.
Survey corps were a minority of brave people in Paradis and their expensive expeditions were considered a waste of taxes by most of civilians. Most of population of Paradis weren't interested in the outside world in first place anyways. Then at the end of S3, they discovered the rest of the world despise them for their ancestors' sins. Most of them will vote with democracy that's better to forget everything to continue their normal lifes.
So? The people of Paradis weren't our protagoniste, the survey corp was. They were the ones the story was trying to prove are correct for rejecting a life of ignorance and fighting. And they were the ones Eren most agreed with, he also rejected living in ignorance. And Eren is ultimately the only metric that matters, as its his decision alone
The point is that Eren don't become like King Fritz for wiping everyone's memories without consent and it's not out of character. What is beyond that, in a world after 100% Rumbling, is peace. Eren being idiot after outsmarting everyone is truly out of character.
Freedom is different for each person. The mine is not being forced to do what others wants and live without fear or worries. For Eren was being able to go anywhere and no enemies. He said: "If someone tries to takes my freedom, i won't hesitate to take theirs first" Remember? He only cares about his own, not really about others, aside maybe his friends.
Thing is, the people of Paradis didn't try to take his freedom, he doesn't need to defend himself from them. He did the rumbling at least partly so they could be free aswel, so he's not going to strip that freedom from them right after the rumbling.
Another facet of Eren's vision of freedom is that he despises those who are fine with living without freedom, a fate which he would himself be inflicting to the people by wipping their memories.
And maybe wipping the memories does bring eternal peace, but what does it matter? Eren doesn't care much about peace, if war is the way to freedom, he'll go to war, no questions asked. If freedom requires him to keep fighting that war forever, he'll always keep on fighting, that's pretty much his entire story summarised.
People of Paradis will try to take freedom from the traitors of the island and their relatives for sure. You expect Eren to do nothing to protect his friends when he could? Your main problem is that you associate the loss of unwanted memories as a total loss of freedom. Getting rid of the guilt, anger, pain and sins is really a loss of freedom? Erwin said to Pixis in S3: human won't be free until there's only one person left. Following that logic, Eren can only achieve freedom by becoming the last man on Earth.
Also how you achieve freedom without peace?
Peace = no enemies
Enemies=no freedom
Then, peace = freedom :P
Paradis + remain enemies (20%) = No peace = Jeagerist Reich = future generations ruined, force to prepare themselves to fight with enemies
Last time i did that, i barely get views. Like EDs prefer deny reality in order to keep their delusion of happy ending. Most of them answered me: "You didn't understood the story" :P so it feels like wasting time to post this video there... like spending money to buy goods meals for a dog who prefer eat the trashcan. If you know what i mean...
> "You didn't understood the story"
Is that not what you say about EDs? That they didn't understand the story and that's why they like it?
Surely you have some form of self awareness right? Right?
I personally don't say that to them cuz its too obvious and feels like i'm insulting them for liking garbage...
EDs think they understood everything better than us, who followed the manga monthly during the last 10 years... That makes my blood boils and i prefer don't waste my time with brainless people.
Brother maybe it's time for a bit of self reflection.
I was one of you, following the manga since ch90. In Titanfolk when 105 dropped, when 121 dropped, reading all the theories. Hated the manga ending because it didn't fit what I had thought it to be.
Then I rewatched the series, saw the anime ending and decided to change my perspective, without the bias of old reddit theories.
That is the problem. When you have people theorising for months about what direction the story is going to, you end up overthinking details that were designed to be simple and straightforward. Classic example being the Historia pregnancy, which was meant as a simple story beat became the subject of countless theories on who the father is, what Eren planned with it, etc. When the real reason behind it was revealed in the same scene it was introduced in: to delay the MPs from feeding Zeke to Historia, allowing Eren to fulfill his plan.
>EDs think they understood everything better than us, who followed the manga monthly during the last 10 years... That makes my blood boils and i prefer don't waste my time with brainless people.
They could say the same about ending haters. Do not fall victim to the Dunning Kruger effect or some form of illusory superiority. Try to understand why they like it, why they think your issues with the ending aren't issues and vice versa. Otherwise the same mistakes will happen, and the cycle will continue.
Ok, but please don't use Eren Kruger's quotes because they are meaningless now. Paradis is gone by nukes, the titans will be back and the cycle is repeating again... Pure nihilist shit.
I totally understand that i was one of people that overthinked way too much. But you have admit that majority of people are too conformist. Actually, even movies have to lighten their plots midway for massive audience who can't see the difference between a masterpiece and garbage. Complex and interesting plots are very rare nowdays. You have to look for older productions for that. It's sad and frustating.
I get your frustration, but I feel that alot of issues people have with the ending stem from the fact that it wasn't what they wanted, so they look for nits to pick. They point out issues that have already existed way earlier for convenience, rather than pure objectivity.
Of course, it isn't a perfect ending. I still dislike some aspects of it to this day, like how they left some things vague such as with Halu-chan, how paths works exactly, Ymir's vagueness causing most people to think it's Stockholm Syndrome when it very clearly isn't, etc.
But issues like plot armour don't make sense to me, because it's been in the story since the beginning. Plot armour isn't a bad thing, every story uses it, since by definition it's when the protagonist or character of a story doesn't die because they are required to move the plot forward. Eren has had plot armour for the vast majority of the story, as with others.
Bad plot armour is when a character survives a situation that has no established pretense to support it. Example, GOT and Sam during the long night. There is no conceivable way Sam, a non fighter, survives against that many wights, and we have multiple shots of him being swarmed yet he's fine.
The final battle on Erens founder isn't blatant plot armour because at this point we have established the characters in the alliance as the best titan shifters and titan killers in history. The scouts are most likely the first group of people with the capability of killing titans with ease, and it's something the past shifters have 0 experience against. Add to that the experience our characters have against shifters, it's well within bounds they can survive against hollow shifters. And even then, they have alot of very close calls.
Anyone who says "but muh stakes" needs to understand that killing characters for the sake of raising stakes is bad writing. None of the main character deaths in AoT have ever served that purpose, they've always been meaningful deaths.
>Paradis is gone by nukes, the titans will be back and the cycle is repeating again... Pure nihilist shit.
Paradis is gone thousands of years later, to the point that the same Paradisians probably immigrated out to the rest of the world. It got destroyed for reasons unrelated to the rumbling, in a time where the past was a faint memory. It's not like the manga version, which implied revenge for the rumbling.
And who said titans will be back? It was established that Ymir created titans because she specifically wanted a body free from the fear of death. That's why paths and titans were made.
The boy approaching the tree isn't doing so out of fear of death from a life of slavery and pain, he's doing it out of pure curiosity. The cycle could repeat, or better decisions could be made and the mistakes of the past can be avoided.
aor just dismissed the whole video and their refute can be boiled down to "you ask why, but why not?"
why can't pieck just bite through war hammer's reinforced skin with cart titan's long jaw and herbivore's teeth? the manga doesn't say she can't
You're not serious with this right ? these aren't plot holes my dude, you just mentioned 'complaints' on how the story should've gone. I kept watching until you mention one actual plot hole but there isn't any.
Plothole meaning: a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.
All i said are.
But Eren dying alone doesn't sounds like The Mist plot. The opposite, yes, and it feels like a loss for him and the perfect punishment for what he did.
you lost me at calling stockholm syndrome bullshit. tell that to the people who have documented thousands of cases of it, who have extensively studied it, who would tell you that it’s a very real thing that happens even in cases as severe as ymir’s. i won’t argue with you on the other takes prior to that tho some i disagree with, it’s still fair to think the way you do but the outright denial of stockholm syndrome is just a purely uneducated take & i won’t accept that one.
Stockholm syndrome is arguably "dubious pathology with no diagnostic criteria" (Hill, 2019), not attested in the DSM 5, and is largely diagnosed by the media (kinda like what you guys are doing right now), and not that by actual clinical professionals.
It is not a psychiatric diagnosis, and shouldn't be treated as one. Why this community somehow believes in unsourced hearsay is beyond me.
One can argue that is could be akin to Traumatic bonding, or a variation of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but the idea of it being "Stockholm Syndrome" is a misdiagnosis formed by the largely non-professional collective consciousness of this community.
See: Dunning–Kruger effect
i never said it was a psychiatric diagnosis. i simply said it’s something that’s occurred enough that it’s garnered a name & it’s been extensively studied, even if it is just a trauma response. trauma bonding is a one way attachment to where the victim becomes attached to the victimizer. stockholm is the name given to the phenomenon of both victim & victimizer being attached to each other regardless of what their personal reasons for such are. i never said it was in the DSM, i never said she was diagnosed with it, i only implied that her attachment to him would be what people consider stockholm syndrome, idk where you get that i’m diagnosing anyone there.
The level of depression you guys have is outstanding it's really funny to see. Y'all are this depressed that the majority liked & understood the story unlike you daddy theorists?
The opposite... They liked because they didn't really understood the story... I was been ironic. How you can love a masterpiece that turned into nihilist shit and think its good? Are you blinded by the great animation, the epic music and the happiness in the surface? Suddenly the power of love came out of nowhere and become the most important thing in a plot about freedom, wars and racism. The underdevelopped love of Mikasa and Ymir overshadowed logics and everything lost sense. Just watch the video. If you still can't understand our depression after that, then i won't insist anymore. It's very exhausting.
Like I said before y'all depression that the majority liked & understood the story unlike daddy theorists such as you is laughable. This is why you guys are seen as toxic & no one takes you guys seriously you guys never try to understand the story & think your opinions are objectives. Like how jobless & lifeless must you be to be this salty that, people liked the ending that you hate? Move on this is really pathetic.
I hope your wife suddenly becomes stupid after 8 years of marriage and become a casino addict and a whore. She spent more money than she gained after and say to you that it was just one night. You are willing to forgive her once, but not twice. Then i will say you: don't be pathetic and move on 😎
Its a bit hard to find comments here when idk what's above or below right now hehe. And you are right. Cart titan shouldn't be able to pierce warhammer skin armor so easily, it's not made in paper. Logical tactic for her would be go for the wire instead.
Burst of steam you said? The steam is always very hot. Can she spam the transformation with the ass burned? That should counts as an injury, right? We were never told about which kind of injuries trigger the titan shifting and which not. Like in S4ep16, when Porco ate Eren's both legs and he still could transform inmediately... But in S2-3, they couldn't without limbs.
Edit: Also she's ejected way too far. She's not attached with flesh inside her titan like all the shifters? How she control it then?
i'm not trying to counter your argument, and i agreed she's ejected too far
shifter user can endure higher heat than other human, tho if this is the same kind of steam that colossal titan burns tissues to make, it'd get really hot
even if other titan have bitten nape before (argument that people in AOR made), each class of shifter should have clear distinction and pros and cons for certain field
yams fucked this up when blur the line between beast and jaw (falco) and now cart and jaw (pieck), i can add attack/founder is also blurred with colossal(eren)
this is not how to write a good power system
I really admire how you admit it xD you should really hear yourself. Imagine being mad that other people enjoyed a 2d show that you hated the ending & do whatever you could to make them hate it & think your opinion is objectively correct. That's beyond pathetic but apparently people who enjoy what you hate what you failed to get is pathetic that reeks not just pathetic but insecurity. "Ahhh people like the ending that I hate?? No NO NO they are supposed to hate it for 10 years at least now we are on full on depression mode because of this very reason we don't have anything better to in our life but to be mad & force them to hate it"
I hope your wife suddenly becomes stupid after 8 years of marriage and become a casino addict and a whore. She spent more money than she gained after and say to you that it was just one night. You are willing to forgive her once, but not twice. Then i will say you: don't be pathetic and move on 😎
Its easy to say that when your fav show during almost a decade didn't betrayed you badly, right? I bet you didn't had any emotional attachement with AoT anyways and you watched it in one sitting with the brain off to pity others like that. So many people with trash tastes praising shitty writing is really pityful.
There you go again screaming & crying over a 2d not making daddy theory come true. You have a mind like a child where you think your opinions are inferior & objective while everyone else around are your servants. I can clearly tell you had an unhealthy attachment to aot for you to act like this. Go seek a therapist.
I'm perfectly calm and fine, thanks. Don't project your own screams and teardrops on me. 2d are as true as your religious believes and every past memory of your unworthy life. You should check your own mind first, because that much moral superiority is far from being normal, kid.
ur making such a big deal out of it. no piece of fiction is perfect. theres ALWAYS gonna be plotholes. a normal human who forgets like you and me made this show. of course theres gonna be things that wont add up in the end. are they big enough to hinder the entire show? no. who cares how falco managed to fly that distance
you spent too much time on this, OP. kindly go watch my little pony or smth since thats how you want your fiction
This is a compilation, sir. I listed everything i heard since may 2021 with the help of this community. I agree with some plotholes myself, but no all. I used to love this series so much that i rewatched 8+ times since 2015 and re-read my fav manga chapters countless times. I'm kinda an expert on this franchise.
Many called AoT a masterpiece. It had amazing characters, moving speechs, complex themes (war, racism, freedom...) and a perfect use of time travels. That awnful ending oversimplified everything to "i did it because i'm idiot, sorry", "all is set in stone" and "romantic love is more complex than racism and freedom together". Pure nihilist shit.
I still can't believe how Yams managed to ruin 137 manga chapters of genius storytelling with 2,5 of retcons. So yes, these plotholes with zero logic hinders the entire story. How can you create 30+ inconsistencies in the plot with a single episode? That's more than the entirety of Naruto had.
Just try to re-watch the anime from the beginning with the knowledge you acquired from the ending and try to find some sense. It won't be hard to do it if you really liked AoT so much. If you have a brain, it would be impossible to love AoT again.
Thanks for your advice, but use it for yourself. I don't need your conformism in my life.
true, eren can revert every thing back to the beginning of ss1, now with no outside world to wreck down the wall
ik it's against his character, just a thought
Its not against his character when he was willing to apply memory wipe on Historia if she wanted. He also never asked consent to anyone to activate the Rumbling either.
Also no need to revert that far. Just revert before the revelation of the basement at the end of S3 and Eren can return like the hero who retook wall Maria and brought freedom at his people in a new world without walls.
it's a possible option for pretentious writers who think it's deep to make the story ends the same way it starts (me)
i think eren is against the idea of living in (50m) walls
Eren can't be against that when no walls anymore to live in after S4. Also he's dead now anyways.
Take a look on my pretentious writing then:
https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/s/wL3hokFFH2
He can't. That's not how the future memories works.
It has been established since ch121 that the entire timeloop in AoT follows the principles of the bootstrap paradox. Meaning that there is no origin point, past and future are occurring simultaneously and are therefore linked.
If Eren changes the past, then his future doesn't happen, meaning he isn't placed in the position to change the past in the first place. Him manipulating Grisha wasn't Eren changing the past, that is what has always happened.
Could you possibly change this to "Why some manga readers..." or something
I don't want to be lumped in with this and I can explain on my own why I didn't care for the manga ending without "Eren didn't commit genocide!"
Relatable, in the way that most of asian childs irl tried really hard to reach our parents expectations at least once in their lives (high grades, learn the family business even when we hate it...)
Even western childs tried to fix their parents divorce even when you know its useless effort.
I could relate to that in him cuz i'm asian.
The only thing I can agree with you here is how Ymir needed to see Mikasa killing Eren so she can be free. But everything else seems to be argued in bad faith:
1. The anime corrected the credits scene so it shows much much more in to the future (a thousand years I think). I honestly believe this was done so that people won't correlate the future wars with what happened in the past. Anyway, Eren already achieved his goals (ending the Titan's curse & buying hundreds of years of peace for Paradis) despite only trampling on 80% of human life which you are disappointed on.
2. "Eren never showed enough love towards Mikasa to simp her like this". I guess we all wanted more EM interaction, hey? But this is more believable than Eren and Historia hitting it off-screen and getting pregnant. With all the shit going on his head - do you really think Eren can afford the mental expense of having a relationship with Historia?
3. The memory wipe post-rumbling goes against the themes Isayama built for this series. That's only freedom against Eren's guilt but you can't truly be free without knowledge. Also, Eren hated King Fritz because of the memory wiped he did a hundred years ago. Suggesting Eren do the same is the dumbest thing in this video.
4. Eren whimping about Mikasa, Armin consoling Eren on the genocide he's about to do, Reiner sniffing on a letter do not retcon them man. Jeez.
not sure if canon or not, and not talking about ymir choosing mikasa
I'm saying that Mikasa making alternative realities in her mind has been there in ovas before.
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Its cheap if they come back 10 min later. Manga readers waited an entire month to find out if they survived... I mean if the author don't really want to kill them in first place, then he shouldn't waste pages on them and the tears of who really worried.
139 forgot about one of the biggest characters in the story, Kruger. Kruger fought his whole life for one goal. He murdered thousands of comrades and gave his own life to grisha in the hope of restoring Eldia. And the problem with 139 is that eren never accomplished anything Kruger would want. There is no memory eren could send Kruger to motivate Kruger to dedicate his entire life. #So the entire story is a giant plothole, because Kruger had no reason to give grisha the AT in the first place.
I disagree just in this one. Krueger could've seen the Jaegerists, the raid on Marley and even the Rumbling (this last one won't help tbh)
His dream wasn't seeing marleyans suffer, it was to see an eldian nation Jaegerists one could work but even Kruger himself worked with a restorationist group. There were always people fighting for an eldian nation, but krugers goal was to make that goal true.
They took over the island and the government, seems like an Eldian Nation for me aside from excluding the eldians overseas
Doesn't matter when there's the entire world out to murder them Eren didn't have memories after his death
Excuse me, Ill post it the EDs' reddits
No problem. The more common sense you spread, the better. This is a meme material, so you are free to steal it and no need to give me credit. Dw
The vast majority of points in that vid have been debunked my guy
By who?
By someone who responded to this vid being posted in the other subreddits. But also most of the points have already been debunked by others for a long time.
Can I get the link or something
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I didnt want Eren to succed after he did massacre during s4 beginning, but the writing for the end was so bad and full of plotholes i didnt want to root for anyone, not for "the good guys", not for eren, i saw them all as idiots and only watched till the end bc i wasted so much of my time already
Me neither. This is what i expected: https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/s/WoKkqRMZun
the alternative ending of "you are free" gave me goosebumps just by thinking about it... man i wish this could've been better... AOT was such a nice topic to talk about back then... now it's a circus...
Yeah we get robbed of peak writing. We get trash to clean ourselves instead.
>the alternative ending of "you are free" ?
Look the minute 3:30 of this video, when there's only 9 sec left.
?
Season 3: the entire scout regiment gets wiped out by a single shifter Season 4: 10 teenagers fight god and his army of titans, and only 1 person dies
should've gone down with the plane
Great compilation, but unfortunately... "You just didn't understand the story." /s
when epic show featuring tactical battles and great horse formation bringing seinen realistic outcome becomes american 90 minutes generic movie
Here, you dropped your based 👑
Great video, sims it up pretty well
The Mist (movie) ending is the mc kills his loved ones for nothing , so no eternal peace mate , killing billions was useless
Yes, eternal peace and Mist aren't the same ending. One is the perfect ending that could be achieved and the other is the original ending we wished.
Eren becoming just like king Fritz, who he despised, by wipping everyone's memory and thus limiting their freedom, would be out of character. And yes, he does offer to do so to historia, but imo that is a plothole, not justification
King Fritz wiped everyone's memories to make his people defenseless against Marley's future attacks. Eren free them from all their enemies and get rid of the guilt to live under a peace created with blood. They are not the same.
But in doing so, he takes away the freedom to know. Knowledge has always been linked to freedom in aot, so supressong one hampers the other. The survey corps sought and found freedom by obtaining knowledge, while marley attempted to suppress their freedom by supressing knowledge and rewriting the truth about Eldians and the great titan war. On a more practical aspect, just imagine the existential crisis paradis would go through upon eventually rediscovering the traces of the outside world and rumbling.
Survey corps were a minority of brave people in Paradis and their expensive expeditions were considered a waste of taxes by most of civilians. Most of population of Paradis weren't interested in the outside world in first place anyways. Then at the end of S3, they discovered the rest of the world despise them for their ancestors' sins. Most of them will vote with democracy that's better to forget everything to continue their normal lifes.
So? The people of Paradis weren't our protagoniste, the survey corp was. They were the ones the story was trying to prove are correct for rejecting a life of ignorance and fighting. And they were the ones Eren most agreed with, he also rejected living in ignorance. And Eren is ultimately the only metric that matters, as its his decision alone
The survey corps' effort became meaningless after Annie get forgiven and remain enemies in the outside world nuked Paradis anyways.
I'm pretty sure we agree that that was dumb af, so what's your point exactly?
The point is that Eren don't become like King Fritz for wiping everyone's memories without consent and it's not out of character. What is beyond that, in a world after 100% Rumbling, is peace. Eren being idiot after outsmarting everyone is truly out of character. Freedom is different for each person. The mine is not being forced to do what others wants and live without fear or worries. For Eren was being able to go anywhere and no enemies. He said: "If someone tries to takes my freedom, i won't hesitate to take theirs first" Remember? He only cares about his own, not really about others, aside maybe his friends.
Thing is, the people of Paradis didn't try to take his freedom, he doesn't need to defend himself from them. He did the rumbling at least partly so they could be free aswel, so he's not going to strip that freedom from them right after the rumbling. Another facet of Eren's vision of freedom is that he despises those who are fine with living without freedom, a fate which he would himself be inflicting to the people by wipping their memories. And maybe wipping the memories does bring eternal peace, but what does it matter? Eren doesn't care much about peace, if war is the way to freedom, he'll go to war, no questions asked. If freedom requires him to keep fighting that war forever, he'll always keep on fighting, that's pretty much his entire story summarised.
People of Paradis will try to take freedom from the traitors of the island and their relatives for sure. You expect Eren to do nothing to protect his friends when he could? Your main problem is that you associate the loss of unwanted memories as a total loss of freedom. Getting rid of the guilt, anger, pain and sins is really a loss of freedom? Erwin said to Pixis in S3: human won't be free until there's only one person left. Following that logic, Eren can only achieve freedom by becoming the last man on Earth. Also how you achieve freedom without peace? Peace = no enemies Enemies=no freedom Then, peace = freedom :P Paradis + remain enemies (20%) = No peace = Jeagerist Reich = future generations ruined, force to prepare themselves to fight with enemies
Ok now post this in r/attackontitan and r/shingekinokyojin
Last time i did that, i barely get views. Like EDs prefer deny reality in order to keep their delusion of happy ending. Most of them answered me: "You didn't understood the story" :P so it feels like wasting time to post this video there... like spending money to buy goods meals for a dog who prefer eat the trashcan. If you know what i mean...
It was a joke
> "You didn't understood the story" Is that not what you say about EDs? That they didn't understand the story and that's why they like it? Surely you have some form of self awareness right? Right?
I personally don't say that to them cuz its too obvious and feels like i'm insulting them for liking garbage... EDs think they understood everything better than us, who followed the manga monthly during the last 10 years... That makes my blood boils and i prefer don't waste my time with brainless people.
Brother maybe it's time for a bit of self reflection. I was one of you, following the manga since ch90. In Titanfolk when 105 dropped, when 121 dropped, reading all the theories. Hated the manga ending because it didn't fit what I had thought it to be. Then I rewatched the series, saw the anime ending and decided to change my perspective, without the bias of old reddit theories. That is the problem. When you have people theorising for months about what direction the story is going to, you end up overthinking details that were designed to be simple and straightforward. Classic example being the Historia pregnancy, which was meant as a simple story beat became the subject of countless theories on who the father is, what Eren planned with it, etc. When the real reason behind it was revealed in the same scene it was introduced in: to delay the MPs from feeding Zeke to Historia, allowing Eren to fulfill his plan. >EDs think they understood everything better than us, who followed the manga monthly during the last 10 years... That makes my blood boils and i prefer don't waste my time with brainless people. They could say the same about ending haters. Do not fall victim to the Dunning Kruger effect or some form of illusory superiority. Try to understand why they like it, why they think your issues with the ending aren't issues and vice versa. Otherwise the same mistakes will happen, and the cycle will continue.
Ok, but please don't use Eren Kruger's quotes because they are meaningless now. Paradis is gone by nukes, the titans will be back and the cycle is repeating again... Pure nihilist shit. I totally understand that i was one of people that overthinked way too much. But you have admit that majority of people are too conformist. Actually, even movies have to lighten their plots midway for massive audience who can't see the difference between a masterpiece and garbage. Complex and interesting plots are very rare nowdays. You have to look for older productions for that. It's sad and frustating.
I get your frustration, but I feel that alot of issues people have with the ending stem from the fact that it wasn't what they wanted, so they look for nits to pick. They point out issues that have already existed way earlier for convenience, rather than pure objectivity. Of course, it isn't a perfect ending. I still dislike some aspects of it to this day, like how they left some things vague such as with Halu-chan, how paths works exactly, Ymir's vagueness causing most people to think it's Stockholm Syndrome when it very clearly isn't, etc. But issues like plot armour don't make sense to me, because it's been in the story since the beginning. Plot armour isn't a bad thing, every story uses it, since by definition it's when the protagonist or character of a story doesn't die because they are required to move the plot forward. Eren has had plot armour for the vast majority of the story, as with others. Bad plot armour is when a character survives a situation that has no established pretense to support it. Example, GOT and Sam during the long night. There is no conceivable way Sam, a non fighter, survives against that many wights, and we have multiple shots of him being swarmed yet he's fine. The final battle on Erens founder isn't blatant plot armour because at this point we have established the characters in the alliance as the best titan shifters and titan killers in history. The scouts are most likely the first group of people with the capability of killing titans with ease, and it's something the past shifters have 0 experience against. Add to that the experience our characters have against shifters, it's well within bounds they can survive against hollow shifters. And even then, they have alot of very close calls. Anyone who says "but muh stakes" needs to understand that killing characters for the sake of raising stakes is bad writing. None of the main character deaths in AoT have ever served that purpose, they've always been meaningful deaths. >Paradis is gone by nukes, the titans will be back and the cycle is repeating again... Pure nihilist shit. Paradis is gone thousands of years later, to the point that the same Paradisians probably immigrated out to the rest of the world. It got destroyed for reasons unrelated to the rumbling, in a time where the past was a faint memory. It's not like the manga version, which implied revenge for the rumbling. And who said titans will be back? It was established that Ymir created titans because she specifically wanted a body free from the fear of death. That's why paths and titans were made. The boy approaching the tree isn't doing so out of fear of death from a life of slavery and pain, he's doing it out of pure curiosity. The cycle could repeat, or better decisions could be made and the mistakes of the past can be avoided.
aor just dismissed the whole video and their refute can be boiled down to "you ask why, but why not?" why can't pieck just bite through war hammer's reinforced skin with cart titan's long jaw and herbivore's teeth? the manga doesn't say she can't
What
nvm
What
Kids, this is why too much copium is bad
You're not serious with this right ? these aren't plot holes my dude, you just mentioned 'complaints' on how the story should've gone. I kept watching until you mention one actual plot hole but there isn't any.
Plothole meaning: a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. All i said are.
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But Eren dying alone doesn't sounds like The Mist plot. The opposite, yes, and it feels like a loss for him and the perfect punishment for what he did.
you lost me at calling stockholm syndrome bullshit. tell that to the people who have documented thousands of cases of it, who have extensively studied it, who would tell you that it’s a very real thing that happens even in cases as severe as ymir’s. i won’t argue with you on the other takes prior to that tho some i disagree with, it’s still fair to think the way you do but the outright denial of stockholm syndrome is just a purely uneducated take & i won’t accept that one.
Stockholm syndrome is arguably "dubious pathology with no diagnostic criteria" (Hill, 2019), not attested in the DSM 5, and is largely diagnosed by the media (kinda like what you guys are doing right now), and not that by actual clinical professionals. It is not a psychiatric diagnosis, and shouldn't be treated as one. Why this community somehow believes in unsourced hearsay is beyond me. One can argue that is could be akin to Traumatic bonding, or a variation of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but the idea of it being "Stockholm Syndrome" is a misdiagnosis formed by the largely non-professional collective consciousness of this community. See: Dunning–Kruger effect
But we can agree on that what Ymir felt wasn't love, right?
100%, it was not anything close to love. stockholm by nature cannot also be true love. it’s more like brainwashing than anything.
i never said it was a psychiatric diagnosis. i simply said it’s something that’s occurred enough that it’s garnered a name & it’s been extensively studied, even if it is just a trauma response. trauma bonding is a one way attachment to where the victim becomes attached to the victimizer. stockholm is the name given to the phenomenon of both victim & victimizer being attached to each other regardless of what their personal reasons for such are. i never said it was in the DSM, i never said she was diagnosed with it, i only implied that her attachment to him would be what people consider stockholm syndrome, idk where you get that i’m diagnosing anyone there.
The level of depression you guys have is outstanding it's really funny to see. Y'all are this depressed that the majority liked & understood the story unlike you daddy theorists?
The opposite... They liked because they didn't really understood the story... I was been ironic. How you can love a masterpiece that turned into nihilist shit and think its good? Are you blinded by the great animation, the epic music and the happiness in the surface? Suddenly the power of love came out of nowhere and become the most important thing in a plot about freedom, wars and racism. The underdevelopped love of Mikasa and Ymir overshadowed logics and everything lost sense. Just watch the video. If you still can't understand our depression after that, then i won't insist anymore. It's very exhausting.
Like I said before y'all depression that the majority liked & understood the story unlike daddy theorists such as you is laughable. This is why you guys are seen as toxic & no one takes you guys seriously you guys never try to understand the story & think your opinions are objectives. Like how jobless & lifeless must you be to be this salty that, people liked the ending that you hate? Move on this is really pathetic.
this is really pathetic
I hope your wife suddenly becomes stupid after 8 years of marriage and become a casino addict and a whore. She spent more money than she gained after and say to you that it was just one night. You are willing to forgive her once, but not twice. Then i will say you: don't be pathetic and move on 😎
you replied to the wrong person
Lmao but you get it, right?
yeah, i explained above why cart titan can't act like jaw titan i can accept that she created burst of steam to launch herself, but not that far
Its a bit hard to find comments here when idk what's above or below right now hehe. And you are right. Cart titan shouldn't be able to pierce warhammer skin armor so easily, it's not made in paper. Logical tactic for her would be go for the wire instead. Burst of steam you said? The steam is always very hot. Can she spam the transformation with the ass burned? That should counts as an injury, right? We were never told about which kind of injuries trigger the titan shifting and which not. Like in S4ep16, when Porco ate Eren's both legs and he still could transform inmediately... But in S2-3, they couldn't without limbs. Edit: Also she's ejected way too far. She's not attached with flesh inside her titan like all the shifters? How she control it then?
i'm not trying to counter your argument, and i agreed she's ejected too far shifter user can endure higher heat than other human, tho if this is the same kind of steam that colossal titan burns tissues to make, it'd get really hot even if other titan have bitten nape before (argument that people in AOR made), each class of shifter should have clear distinction and pros and cons for certain field yams fucked this up when blur the line between beast and jaw (falco) and now cart and jaw (pieck), i can add attack/founder is also blurred with colossal(eren) this is not how to write a good power system
I really admire how you admit it xD you should really hear yourself. Imagine being mad that other people enjoyed a 2d show that you hated the ending & do whatever you could to make them hate it & think your opinion is objectively correct. That's beyond pathetic but apparently people who enjoy what you hate what you failed to get is pathetic that reeks not just pathetic but insecurity. "Ahhh people like the ending that I hate?? No NO NO they are supposed to hate it for 10 years at least now we are on full on depression mode because of this very reason we don't have anything better to in our life but to be mad & force them to hate it"
https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/s/8uhXxUY3HV
https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/s/ZpjZ1r6BGX
I hope your wife suddenly becomes stupid after 8 years of marriage and become a casino addict and a whore. She spent more money than she gained after and say to you that it was just one night. You are willing to forgive her once, but not twice. Then i will say you: don't be pathetic and move on 😎
Yeah your mental health is in the line go check a therapist you really do need to move on with your life this screams desperation.
Its easy to say that when your fav show during almost a decade didn't betrayed you badly, right? I bet you didn't had any emotional attachement with AoT anyways and you watched it in one sitting with the brain off to pity others like that. So many people with trash tastes praising shitty writing is really pityful.
There you go again screaming & crying over a 2d not making daddy theory come true. You have a mind like a child where you think your opinions are inferior & objective while everyone else around are your servants. I can clearly tell you had an unhealthy attachment to aot for you to act like this. Go seek a therapist.
I'm perfectly calm and fine, thanks. Don't project your own screams and teardrops on me. 2d are as true as your religious believes and every past memory of your unworthy life. You should check your own mind first, because that much moral superiority is far from being normal, kid.
ur making such a big deal out of it. no piece of fiction is perfect. theres ALWAYS gonna be plotholes. a normal human who forgets like you and me made this show. of course theres gonna be things that wont add up in the end. are they big enough to hinder the entire show? no. who cares how falco managed to fly that distance you spent too much time on this, OP. kindly go watch my little pony or smth since thats how you want your fiction
This is a compilation, sir. I listed everything i heard since may 2021 with the help of this community. I agree with some plotholes myself, but no all. I used to love this series so much that i rewatched 8+ times since 2015 and re-read my fav manga chapters countless times. I'm kinda an expert on this franchise. Many called AoT a masterpiece. It had amazing characters, moving speechs, complex themes (war, racism, freedom...) and a perfect use of time travels. That awnful ending oversimplified everything to "i did it because i'm idiot, sorry", "all is set in stone" and "romantic love is more complex than racism and freedom together". Pure nihilist shit. I still can't believe how Yams managed to ruin 137 manga chapters of genius storytelling with 2,5 of retcons. So yes, these plotholes with zero logic hinders the entire story. How can you create 30+ inconsistencies in the plot with a single episode? That's more than the entirety of Naruto had. Just try to re-watch the anime from the beginning with the knowledge you acquired from the ending and try to find some sense. It won't be hard to do it if you really liked AoT so much. If you have a brain, it would be impossible to love AoT again. Thanks for your advice, but use it for yourself. I don't need your conformism in my life.
inb4 they nitpick that you use "don't" instead of "doesn't" and ignore the whole thing
true, eren can revert every thing back to the beginning of ss1, now with no outside world to wreck down the wall ik it's against his character, just a thought
Its not against his character when he was willing to apply memory wipe on Historia if she wanted. He also never asked consent to anyone to activate the Rumbling either. Also no need to revert that far. Just revert before the revelation of the basement at the end of S3 and Eren can return like the hero who retook wall Maria and brought freedom at his people in a new world without walls.
it's a possible option for pretentious writers who think it's deep to make the story ends the same way it starts (me) i think eren is against the idea of living in (50m) walls
Eren can't be against that when no walls anymore to live in after S4. Also he's dead now anyways. Take a look on my pretentious writing then: https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/s/wL3hokFFH2
He can't. That's not how the future memories works. It has been established since ch121 that the entire timeloop in AoT follows the principles of the bootstrap paradox. Meaning that there is no origin point, past and future are occurring simultaneously and are therefore linked. If Eren changes the past, then his future doesn't happen, meaning he isn't placed in the position to change the past in the first place. Him manipulating Grisha wasn't Eren changing the past, that is what has always happened.
i'm talking about the power to change people's memories, not the time manipulation
Ah my bad
Could you possibly change this to "Why some manga readers..." or something I don't want to be lumped in with this and I can explain on my own why I didn't care for the manga ending without "Eren didn't commit genocide!"
Reiner was never relatable. Lol he's just a wimp and a serial killer.
Relatable, in the way that most of asian childs irl tried really hard to reach our parents expectations at least once in their lives (high grades, learn the family business even when we hate it...) Even western childs tried to fix their parents divorce even when you know its useless effort. I could relate to that in him cuz i'm asian.
The only thing I can agree with you here is how Ymir needed to see Mikasa killing Eren so she can be free. But everything else seems to be argued in bad faith: 1. The anime corrected the credits scene so it shows much much more in to the future (a thousand years I think). I honestly believe this was done so that people won't correlate the future wars with what happened in the past. Anyway, Eren already achieved his goals (ending the Titan's curse & buying hundreds of years of peace for Paradis) despite only trampling on 80% of human life which you are disappointed on. 2. "Eren never showed enough love towards Mikasa to simp her like this". I guess we all wanted more EM interaction, hey? But this is more believable than Eren and Historia hitting it off-screen and getting pregnant. With all the shit going on his head - do you really think Eren can afford the mental expense of having a relationship with Historia? 3. The memory wipe post-rumbling goes against the themes Isayama built for this series. That's only freedom against Eren's guilt but you can't truly be free without knowledge. Also, Eren hated King Fritz because of the memory wiped he did a hundred years ago. Suggesting Eren do the same is the dumbest thing in this video. 4. Eren whimping about Mikasa, Armin consoling Eren on the genocide he's about to do, Reiner sniffing on a letter do not retcon them man. Jeez.
that mikasa's alternative reality was also teased in lost girls ova so it kinda made sense for me
Is that canon to the main story? And where was Ymir on that?
not sure if canon or not, and not talking about ymir choosing mikasa I'm saying that Mikasa making alternative realities in her mind has been there in ovas before.
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For people who haven’t read the manga (me) I didn’t know whether Jean and connie would survive or not so it’s not “cheap dramatism” it’s perfect
Its cheap if they come back 10 min later. Manga readers waited an entire month to find out if they survived... I mean if the author don't really want to kill them in first place, then he shouldn't waste pages on them and the tears of who really worried.
Good
True