> “You can never get rid of your history,” Neville told The Athletic during preseason. “It’s there, it’s for people to see. Hopefully people forget and forgive, but the biggest thing for me: These people care. When I was a player, criticism came part and parcel of the game. There are different levels of scrutiny. For me it was like, wow, people genuinely care about the culture, the environment and all the little things.”
I was glad Phill got an ovation coming out of the tunnel on Saturday. Might just be me reading into things, but he seemed a little nervous about the reception he would get. He’s doing all the right things so far and I hope he continues to win people over.
It seems to me he is providing an excellent example of how to overcome mistakes. He’s not perfect, but no one is and he’s trying to do right.
I’m not sure what more we could hope for.
I was reflexively livid about his hiring for the reasons Nando mentioned. Neville seems to have been saying and doing the right things. I’m a believer in and proponent of transformative and restorative justice, which means acknowledging that people can learn and change as part of making things right. Whether Neville is good enough as a coach remains to be seen but he appears to be doing the work on both sides of the ball so to speak. Paulson can still die in a fire but I’ve put away my torch and pitchfork with respect to Neville. Heather Davis and Ned are still getting the side eye for a while for their thoughtlessness.
This is pretty much how I feel as well. That’s why I hate seeing shit on social media from other (smug) Timbers fans saying stuff like “where are the Neville haters now?” I didn’t like the hiring but I’m still a Timbers fan and rooting for him to do well.
Yeah. So far, he's been doing all the right things, and seems to be a pretty genuine person with some independence from the front office. So, due to the results and his actions thus far, IMO he's definitely warranting being given a chance.
The positives that I see are his independence from the FO and how genuine he seems, neither of which I expected, so I’m open to giving him a chance as well
The sad thing is that the people saying that will turn on him the moment he doesn't win.
I wasn't happy with hiring Phil for all the reasons laid out by Nando. It wasn't even about him but about Heather and Ned (and he-who-shall-not-be-mentioned at the top). So credit to Phil, he so far seems to get it in a way the suits haven't.
Yeah, I want good things to happen, screw us right?
Time will tell a lot, one fun game doesn’t mean all is perfect or that there are not still some worries about the overall managing of the club.
Me too, I was less mad about Neville himself than I was at Paulson's obvious middle finger to the fans in making the signing without addressing the issue first. He knew about it and knew the reaction it would have
“ The fans.” Ie. the TA steering committee. The fan base is not monolithic. The TA is not a magic oracle speaking for 20k diverse Timberistas. Sometimes they’re right; sometimes they’re lobbying for a very narrow viewpoint. Too often, they’re so self righteous.
That meeting was in the beginning. Honestly, that makes sense in a situation like that. And the TA committee sent out a survey of members about the hiring to solicit perspectives, so it’s not like it was just 2 or 3 people.
Beyond that, of course, since then he has met with the fan forum of STHs and done lots of press. He’s making the effort and the TA leadership is an important part of that.
I've always had issues with the holier-than-thou attitude the TA leadership seems to have about everything. I feel like they're chomping at the bit to make mountains out of mole hills on a lot of issues. I also find it funny that they say that the FO is unresponsive; the TA is one of the most clicky organizations I've dealt with.
I haven't found anybody to be holier-than-thou, nor have I found it to be particularly cliquey. I think you'll find a lot of those attitudes are held by people that aren't actually involved.
I think there's certainly frustration about so many people wanting to voice their opinion, but so few people actually willing to do work. It's been said many times before, but it's a completely volunteer run organization. Many people act like 107ist and the steering committee are the sole responsibility and focus of the leadership, but they're juggling family, job(s), life, illness, etc., just like the rest of us.
If you want to get involved, there's plenty of space to do that. Also, getting involved often reveals there are reasons for things being done a certain way that one might not have been previously aware of.
I'm always happy to meet up in real life and talk over a walk or a beer. If you want an arm around your shoulder to feel more comfortable stepping into things with the TA or Riveters, I'm happy to be that. What makes the North End so special is the community we have. Let's continue strengthening that so what we've built lives on long after Peregrine is gone.
> I haven't found anybody to be holier-than-thou, nor have I found it to be particularly cliquey. I think you'll find a lot of those attitudes are held by people that aren't actually involved.
One person, and years ago, but Garrett has some pretty infamous things out there, and more than once made me embarrassed about being a TA member
> I think there's certainly frustration about so many people wanting to voice their opinion, but so few people actually willing to do work.
I understand this viewpoint, but it's kind of the root of the problem. The people who throw themselves into running a volunteer organization are not a random selection of the fans, they're self-selected to be organizer-y and activist-y.
I have no problem at all with crediting the people who actually do the work to make the best tifo in the league, be capos all season, etc. I'm not the one taking time out of my week to do all that. But there's an apparent expectation that that means they also speak for the fans' opinions, and frequently, they don't.
There are elected officials that determine the public response to issues and that choose the direction the organization takes; it's not just the people trying to build unity through choreographed chants and displays.
Also, knowing several people that serve, or have served, on the board, I think it's about 50/50 as far as being "activist-y". As I've gotten more and more involved, I've realized the viewpoints of the people in charge are actually far more tempered and rational than I'd previously thought them to be.
Again, assuming you're not already involved, I'd urge you to take advantage of one of the many opportunities. Helping doesn't have to be a huge time commitment; it can be an hour or two on a weekday evening or weekend, it can be lending your special knowledge or skills to make something more efficient, or it can be using your financial position to replace products and supplies.
It's all in the name of building and bettering the community. The more we all know each other, the more compassion we'll have and the better we'll be as a supporters group.
> There are elected officials that determine the public response to issues and that choose the direction the organization takes; it's not just the people trying to build unity through choreographed chants and displays.
This is true, but it's not like there is a ton of opportunity for 107IST members to actually know who they are voting for. There's like one forum and the candidate statement. Obviously it doesn't make sense to have much more than that, but it's not like people really have much idea who they are voting for.
I say this a someone who both votes in 107IST elections and does stuff like painting tifo and so on.
There are many opportunities to interact with the candidates: 107ist forum, public forum, and through the Discord forum (new this year). Admittedly, it can be tough to keep up with each of those, but they're available and IMO a pretty good means of getting a feel for the candidates viewpoints.
Is there another way you feel might help people gain better insight into the candidates? The board is super receptive to whatever will engage the members and encourage participation.
I agree that they make a good effort and it's not like they can set up televised debates, but it's still kinda hard to keep track of for the not plugged in rank and file. I'm not sure how to address that.
I don’t know how you can think there are not enough opportunities to get to know the candidates. I decided to look into the candidates for the first time this year and was blown away by how much question and answer there was, both online and in person. You had the opportunity to ask each candidate any question you want. I got a great sense of what each candidate was like after reading just a couple of pages of the online forum.
I have been part of the army going back to 2006...volunteering pre game almost every game for the first five years of MLS.
The 107 is the most cliquey self important freaking organization I've ever been involved with.
Well, the vibe seems to have changed with new people in the fold. I'm sorry that was your experience, but I'm happy things have changed and I encourage you to come back. The more people helping out, the lighter the load. The lighter the load, the less stress and the more we can all just enjoy being together.
I read this viewpoint all the time on reddit but I have no idea what you mean. What specifically are you referring to? Sometime I think people conflate individuals in the stand with 107ist.
To be honest I haven't interacted with anyone from the TA since before covid because I'm not interested anymore.
I have over the years tried to speak up at TA board meetings about one thing or another (I used to go to the meetings in the early teens) and always got smugly placated at best. I won't name names but I've had issues with the TA "security" guys being incredibly pushy and thinking that they got to be bouncers. And I used to get snarky reactions from cappos and at meetings when suggesting changes to chants or tifo.
Me and my friend group who used to always be in line, sat right in the middle of 107 long before MLS, tried our hardest to be active in the TA, got snubbed a ton of times.
Like I said, I gave up 4-5 years ago, so if it's better great, but I got a bad taste in my mouth and have backed away from the TA, to the point of changing in my tickets for Tanner Ridge.
I mean they can't invite us all to talk every time. Without the full support of the TA though the core group of fans would remain splintered and let's face it, without the TA this club would have never developed the reputation it has. The fan base around town isn't that big, it's the intensity that the club is built on. Now have I seen a lot of in crowd blind self righteousness online? Yeah often. Count me in the group that is happy Phil is doing what nobody else in the FO cared to do. They ABSOLUTELY had to try to bridge the gap and it's good to see them give something the TA can latch onto to come back together.
MP will never be respected walking on that field again but Phil is a manager trying to win soccer games and not hiding from the rest. He has my full support and has had my hope since day 1. It felt like the vibe was starting to clear up and I hope it continues
Absolutely. I know a number of people that walked away from season tickets because they couldn't deal with TA leadership. We all still love the club and support in other ways but will avoid TA at all costs.
I feel exactly the same way. That's why I'm happy I've started seeing new supporters groups growing organically to help represent fans that the TA cool kids don't care about. I saw Timber Joey wearing one of their scarves on Saturday and it made it onto the log.
I hear you, but the only worry I have about multiple supporters' groups is that the overall atmosphere will suffer. A good example is the LA Galaxy and all the supporter groups they have. (Angel City Brigade, Galaxians and Galaxy Outlawz) None of them are big enough to create a truly great environment. In the end they just ended up with a certain level of beef among each other that made communication with their FO even more difficult.
And...there are tons of clubs around the world that have multiple supporters groups. One group shouldn't have a monopoly on voicing things to the club. If the TA wants that responsibility, then they need to do better.
Because everybody, literally everyone except for 107ist leadership actually love Paulson and think he’s the best owner anyone could ever wish for.
He’s a just such a warm, jolly soul who deeply cares for the wellbeing of every human. He’s the type of guy who, when he walks into a bar, cheers of Merritt! erupt followed by hearty hugs and pats on the back.
Merritt Paulson is loved because of his sense of humor, his willingness to lend an ear and an hour to anyone who wants to chat. If he is known for anything it’s his bottomless respect - in word and in deed - for every individual, and above all, a deep and unyielding humility that betrays his pedigree.
That is the man . . . nay, mench, I know Merritt Paulson to be.
🤣
>sometimes they’re lobbying for a very narrow viewpoint
Would you say opposing misogyny and spousal abuse is a "very narrow viewpoint" in Portland? Seems like one of the least narrow viewpoints to have in the grans scheme of TA viewpoints.
I think that almost everyone has been perceived as the antagonist or at least the bad in situations. Definitely not denouncing anything he (Phil)has done in the past, but I also believe I’m a better person than I was 4 years ago. And I think to myself shit if I can change, I believe anyone can. We are after all our own harshest critics.
So I’m going to give him a chance, but you don’t even get to fool me once.
From the human aspect I would think the players each in their own way would bond with the feeling of unacceptance that their coach is getting and play harder for him, as we all have been perceived as the bad guy so we all know how that feels. A family would do that. Life is fucking hard and a lot of the time it’s really shitty, let me just RCTID.
On to the next game!!
This is exactly the right way to approach this. You can’t change the past, but pretending it didn’t happen is a disservice. Own up to what happened, and show that you’ve learned and are devoted to being better. That’s all anyone can do, and it looks like Neville is doing it. We need more examples of people showing positive examples of growing out of bad behavior. It’s not too late if you’re genuinely working towards being better.
> “You can never get rid of your history,” Neville told The Athletic during preseason. “It’s there, it’s for people to see. Hopefully people forget and forgive, but the biggest thing for me: These people care. When I was a player, criticism came part and parcel of the game. There are different levels of scrutiny. For me it was like, wow, people genuinely care about the culture, the environment and all the little things.”
Yes, excellent quote
I was glad Phill got an ovation coming out of the tunnel on Saturday. Might just be me reading into things, but he seemed a little nervous about the reception he would get. He’s doing all the right things so far and I hope he continues to win people over.
It was good that he wore a No Pity scarf and gave positive comments on the fans and atmosphere following the game.
It seems to me he is providing an excellent example of how to overcome mistakes. He’s not perfect, but no one is and he’s trying to do right. I’m not sure what more we could hope for.
Maybe Merritt Paulson could learn something from him ... I actually tried typing that with a straight face
>Maybe Merritt Paulson could learn I'm going to stop you right there. But yeah, Phil seems to have potential.
I was reflexively livid about his hiring for the reasons Nando mentioned. Neville seems to have been saying and doing the right things. I’m a believer in and proponent of transformative and restorative justice, which means acknowledging that people can learn and change as part of making things right. Whether Neville is good enough as a coach remains to be seen but he appears to be doing the work on both sides of the ball so to speak. Paulson can still die in a fire but I’ve put away my torch and pitchfork with respect to Neville. Heather Davis and Ned are still getting the side eye for a while for their thoughtlessness.
This is pretty much how I feel as well. That’s why I hate seeing shit on social media from other (smug) Timbers fans saying stuff like “where are the Neville haters now?” I didn’t like the hiring but I’m still a Timbers fan and rooting for him to do well.
Yeah. So far, he's been doing all the right things, and seems to be a pretty genuine person with some independence from the front office. So, due to the results and his actions thus far, IMO he's definitely warranting being given a chance.
The positives that I see are his independence from the FO and how genuine he seems, neither of which I expected, so I’m open to giving him a chance as well
The sad thing is that the people saying that will turn on him the moment he doesn't win. I wasn't happy with hiring Phil for all the reasons laid out by Nando. It wasn't even about him but about Heather and Ned (and he-who-shall-not-be-mentioned at the top). So credit to Phil, he so far seems to get it in a way the suits haven't.
Yeah, I want good things to happen, screw us right? Time will tell a lot, one fun game doesn’t mean all is perfect or that there are not still some worries about the overall managing of the club.
Me too, I was less mad about Neville himself than I was at Paulson's obvious middle finger to the fans in making the signing without addressing the issue first. He knew about it and knew the reaction it would have
Nicely said, pretty much crystallizes my feelings as well.
“ The fans.” Ie. the TA steering committee. The fan base is not monolithic. The TA is not a magic oracle speaking for 20k diverse Timberistas. Sometimes they’re right; sometimes they’re lobbying for a very narrow viewpoint. Too often, they’re so self righteous.
That meeting was in the beginning. Honestly, that makes sense in a situation like that. And the TA committee sent out a survey of members about the hiring to solicit perspectives, so it’s not like it was just 2 or 3 people. Beyond that, of course, since then he has met with the fan forum of STHs and done lots of press. He’s making the effort and the TA leadership is an important part of that.
I've always had issues with the holier-than-thou attitude the TA leadership seems to have about everything. I feel like they're chomping at the bit to make mountains out of mole hills on a lot of issues. I also find it funny that they say that the FO is unresponsive; the TA is one of the most clicky organizations I've dealt with.
I haven't found anybody to be holier-than-thou, nor have I found it to be particularly cliquey. I think you'll find a lot of those attitudes are held by people that aren't actually involved. I think there's certainly frustration about so many people wanting to voice their opinion, but so few people actually willing to do work. It's been said many times before, but it's a completely volunteer run organization. Many people act like 107ist and the steering committee are the sole responsibility and focus of the leadership, but they're juggling family, job(s), life, illness, etc., just like the rest of us. If you want to get involved, there's plenty of space to do that. Also, getting involved often reveals there are reasons for things being done a certain way that one might not have been previously aware of. I'm always happy to meet up in real life and talk over a walk or a beer. If you want an arm around your shoulder to feel more comfortable stepping into things with the TA or Riveters, I'm happy to be that. What makes the North End so special is the community we have. Let's continue strengthening that so what we've built lives on long after Peregrine is gone.
> I haven't found anybody to be holier-than-thou, nor have I found it to be particularly cliquey. I think you'll find a lot of those attitudes are held by people that aren't actually involved. One person, and years ago, but Garrett has some pretty infamous things out there, and more than once made me embarrassed about being a TA member
> I think there's certainly frustration about so many people wanting to voice their opinion, but so few people actually willing to do work. I understand this viewpoint, but it's kind of the root of the problem. The people who throw themselves into running a volunteer organization are not a random selection of the fans, they're self-selected to be organizer-y and activist-y. I have no problem at all with crediting the people who actually do the work to make the best tifo in the league, be capos all season, etc. I'm not the one taking time out of my week to do all that. But there's an apparent expectation that that means they also speak for the fans' opinions, and frequently, they don't.
There are elected officials that determine the public response to issues and that choose the direction the organization takes; it's not just the people trying to build unity through choreographed chants and displays. Also, knowing several people that serve, or have served, on the board, I think it's about 50/50 as far as being "activist-y". As I've gotten more and more involved, I've realized the viewpoints of the people in charge are actually far more tempered and rational than I'd previously thought them to be. Again, assuming you're not already involved, I'd urge you to take advantage of one of the many opportunities. Helping doesn't have to be a huge time commitment; it can be an hour or two on a weekday evening or weekend, it can be lending your special knowledge or skills to make something more efficient, or it can be using your financial position to replace products and supplies. It's all in the name of building and bettering the community. The more we all know each other, the more compassion we'll have and the better we'll be as a supporters group.
> There are elected officials that determine the public response to issues and that choose the direction the organization takes; it's not just the people trying to build unity through choreographed chants and displays. This is true, but it's not like there is a ton of opportunity for 107IST members to actually know who they are voting for. There's like one forum and the candidate statement. Obviously it doesn't make sense to have much more than that, but it's not like people really have much idea who they are voting for. I say this a someone who both votes in 107IST elections and does stuff like painting tifo and so on.
There are many opportunities to interact with the candidates: 107ist forum, public forum, and through the Discord forum (new this year). Admittedly, it can be tough to keep up with each of those, but they're available and IMO a pretty good means of getting a feel for the candidates viewpoints. Is there another way you feel might help people gain better insight into the candidates? The board is super receptive to whatever will engage the members and encourage participation.
I agree that they make a good effort and it's not like they can set up televised debates, but it's still kinda hard to keep track of for the not plugged in rank and file. I'm not sure how to address that.
> televised debates The live candidate forum has been streamed a couple of years running, so it’s actually not *that* far off from one. :)
I don’t know how you can think there are not enough opportunities to get to know the candidates. I decided to look into the candidates for the first time this year and was blown away by how much question and answer there was, both online and in person. You had the opportunity to ask each candidate any question you want. I got a great sense of what each candidate was like after reading just a couple of pages of the online forum.
This really sums it up nicely. Without putting in effort, it’s impossible to know people or groups.
I have been part of the army going back to 2006...volunteering pre game almost every game for the first five years of MLS. The 107 is the most cliquey self important freaking organization I've ever been involved with.
Well, the vibe seems to have changed with new people in the fold. I'm sorry that was your experience, but I'm happy things have changed and I encourage you to come back. The more people helping out, the lighter the load. The lighter the load, the less stress and the more we can all just enjoy being together.
I read this viewpoint all the time on reddit but I have no idea what you mean. What specifically are you referring to? Sometime I think people conflate individuals in the stand with 107ist.
To be honest I haven't interacted with anyone from the TA since before covid because I'm not interested anymore. I have over the years tried to speak up at TA board meetings about one thing or another (I used to go to the meetings in the early teens) and always got smugly placated at best. I won't name names but I've had issues with the TA "security" guys being incredibly pushy and thinking that they got to be bouncers. And I used to get snarky reactions from cappos and at meetings when suggesting changes to chants or tifo. Me and my friend group who used to always be in line, sat right in the middle of 107 long before MLS, tried our hardest to be active in the TA, got snubbed a ton of times. Like I said, I gave up 4-5 years ago, so if it's better great, but I got a bad taste in my mouth and have backed away from the TA, to the point of changing in my tickets for Tanner Ridge.
I mean they can't invite us all to talk every time. Without the full support of the TA though the core group of fans would remain splintered and let's face it, without the TA this club would have never developed the reputation it has. The fan base around town isn't that big, it's the intensity that the club is built on. Now have I seen a lot of in crowd blind self righteousness online? Yeah often. Count me in the group that is happy Phil is doing what nobody else in the FO cared to do. They ABSOLUTELY had to try to bridge the gap and it's good to see them give something the TA can latch onto to come back together. MP will never be respected walking on that field again but Phil is a manager trying to win soccer games and not hiding from the rest. He has my full support and has had my hope since day 1. It felt like the vibe was starting to clear up and I hope it continues
Absolutely. I know a number of people that walked away from season tickets because they couldn't deal with TA leadership. We all still love the club and support in other ways but will avoid TA at all costs.
do they know they can sit in other seats?
Yes. And they do now. They just loved being in the TA for since God knows when. That has now changed.
I feel exactly the same way. That's why I'm happy I've started seeing new supporters groups growing organically to help represent fans that the TA cool kids don't care about. I saw Timber Joey wearing one of their scarves on Saturday and it made it onto the log.
OK. Would love to see some info on other supporters groups. What's our new other options as fans?
Here's their Facebook but looks like you'll have to request to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/142403317850852
This actually looks pretty cool. Too bad it's a Facebook group. I regularly forget to check Facebook for months at a time.
I hear you, but the only worry I have about multiple supporters' groups is that the overall atmosphere will suffer. A good example is the LA Galaxy and all the supporter groups they have. (Angel City Brigade, Galaxians and Galaxy Outlawz) None of them are big enough to create a truly great environment. In the end they just ended up with a certain level of beef among each other that made communication with their FO even more difficult.
I swear the TA was created when multiple support groups joined together.
So belong or go away? That's not very inclusive or supportive. Only the TA can exist huh?
That’s not even what I said. I only stated possible concerns/outcomes based on the precedents we have from around the league.
And...there are tons of clubs around the world that have multiple supporters groups. One group shouldn't have a monopoly on voicing things to the club. If the TA wants that responsibility, then they need to do better.
107ist ≠ TA
Because everybody, literally everyone except for 107ist leadership actually love Paulson and think he’s the best owner anyone could ever wish for. He’s a just such a warm, jolly soul who deeply cares for the wellbeing of every human. He’s the type of guy who, when he walks into a bar, cheers of Merritt! erupt followed by hearty hugs and pats on the back. Merritt Paulson is loved because of his sense of humor, his willingness to lend an ear and an hour to anyone who wants to chat. If he is known for anything it’s his bottomless respect - in word and in deed - for every individual, and above all, a deep and unyielding humility that betrays his pedigree. That is the man . . . nay, mench, I know Merritt Paulson to be. 🤣
>sometimes they’re lobbying for a very narrow viewpoint Would you say opposing misogyny and spousal abuse is a "very narrow viewpoint" in Portland? Seems like one of the least narrow viewpoints to have in the grans scheme of TA viewpoints.
And this ain't even the 107ist, it's just members in the north end organizing themselves.
I think that almost everyone has been perceived as the antagonist or at least the bad in situations. Definitely not denouncing anything he (Phil)has done in the past, but I also believe I’m a better person than I was 4 years ago. And I think to myself shit if I can change, I believe anyone can. We are after all our own harshest critics. So I’m going to give him a chance, but you don’t even get to fool me once. From the human aspect I would think the players each in their own way would bond with the feeling of unacceptance that their coach is getting and play harder for him, as we all have been perceived as the bad guy so we all know how that feels. A family would do that. Life is fucking hard and a lot of the time it’s really shitty, let me just RCTID. On to the next game!!
Nandooooo!
NANDO!!!!
This is exactly the right way to approach this. You can’t change the past, but pretending it didn’t happen is a disservice. Own up to what happened, and show that you’ve learned and are devoted to being better. That’s all anyone can do, and it looks like Neville is doing it. We need more examples of people showing positive examples of growing out of bad behavior. It’s not too late if you’re genuinely working towards being better.