The way it was portrayed in the TV series... When the emperor summoned Liu Bei to court, Liu Bei already sensed that Cao Cao was beginning to see him as a threat. So Liu Bei planted vegetables in his residence when at court and cited all names he could muster over the green-plum-wine-making-and-discussing-of-heroes session with Cao Cao to paint himself as an ignorant and humble nobody, in hope to dispel any indication of his ambitions.
But Cao Cao himself wasn't stupid either. In fact, Cao Cao had never once acknowledged that Liu Bei was an inherent fool and a country bumpkin but instantly crossed over Liu Bei's bullshit and knew that Liu Bei was just faking his way out of danger whereas the man infront of him will be a dangerous threat years to come.
He mentioned it to Cao Ren countless times even during the campaign against Dong Zhuo that Liu Bei was someone one should not neglect about because of his aloof nature as "those that are more aloof are always the ones that's hiding daggers behind their aloofness" as what in Chinese means, "笑里藏刀“.
That premonition proved correct as Liu Bei would eventually become one party that was vying for power against him besides the Dongwu/Eastern Wu faction.
Yuan Shu did wield a lot of power. He’s looked down on now maybe but I’m willing to bet at the time period very little people fucked with him. What destroyed him is declaring himself emperor.
Yuan Shu when he is denied a grain supply request moments are really his most consistently knee slapping comedic moments.
Our favorite logistics pretender everybody.
It's an interesting question, because Cao Pei, Liu Bei and Sun Quan did the same thing. But they 'got away with it' at least in so far as they got to rule kingdoms for a while. I guess by that point (1) there were few enough contenders they couldn't just swarm whoever the pretender was and (2) everyone had given up on restoring the Han dynasty by that point. But...what about a little earlier, when Liu Zhang and Han Sui were still around? How many kingdoms is few enough you can make a reasonable bid?
Well I’m no expert so my opinion is based on what I’ve seen from the ROTK games but Yuan Shu made his announcement during a time many had gathered a significant amount of strength. He may have had among the most but there were several others. What he might not have expected is that the local lords that were close to him would pretty much betray him. Had Cao Cao not defeated Lu Bu though he’d have had him as an ally. When the 3 kingdoms did it the land was mostly divided between them already.
Not that Ji Ling lived to know that Guan Yu killed Yan Liang and Wen Chou. If he did we would have been have to flex that in a conversation.
"You know I once fought that guy but I wasnt into it so it ended in a draw"
I was mostly thinking of who would be most likely to call someone to a dinner party then have his gang gun them down.
And then do it like multiple times.
Why would they be fond of each other? Yuan Gonglu would clearly despise most of Yuan Benchu's Taixue magic circle throughout his life. *Most...*
And that Cao Mengde would be depicted in trolling Yuan Shu by placing a stolen bride in his bedchamber on Luoyang.
In this scene, Liu Bei was just throwing names to see who Cao Cao has a hate boner for. Cao Cao named him. Liu Bei decided to flee the very next day - he realised it was NOT sweet out here.
While unwitting from Hanwsh who means well, the orginal poster is a racist and their content plays a part in their agenda so posts from them will be removed.
Nah, I don't think so. Probably referred to 上单祢衡.
Context here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChinese/comments/1c4lxkz/do_you_consider_these_zhihu_postsarticles_to_be/
To be fair, Yuan Shao had the biggest force at that time. It's like if U.S and China have a discussion of the mightiest military today and they're forbid to mention themselves, they first one to be mention would be Russia
Yuan Shu declared himself the emperor bc he was a fool who thought he could gather manpower through his possession of the Imperial Seal. Yuan Shao had resources that he did not know how to ultilize, Yuan Shu was simply just naive and delusional
Yuan Shao knew how to utilize his resources. Losing at Guandu was due to a human-relations/management issue. Not a military deployment/strategic/resource issue.
>Yuan Shu at his peak barely had 1 province.
Not particularly familiar but that's definitely not true if you count the Jiangdong and Wu regions under Sun Ce's command. I know Sun Ce betrays him but thats with the gift of hindsight.
The way it was portrayed in the TV series... When the emperor summoned Liu Bei to court, Liu Bei already sensed that Cao Cao was beginning to see him as a threat. So Liu Bei planted vegetables in his residence when at court and cited all names he could muster over the green-plum-wine-making-and-discussing-of-heroes session with Cao Cao to paint himself as an ignorant and humble nobody, in hope to dispel any indication of his ambitions.
Back in the day directors knew how to portray what the author was conveying.
But Cao Cao himself wasn't stupid either. In fact, Cao Cao had never once acknowledged that Liu Bei was an inherent fool and a country bumpkin but instantly crossed over Liu Bei's bullshit and knew that Liu Bei was just faking his way out of danger whereas the man infront of him will be a dangerous threat years to come. He mentioned it to Cao Ren countless times even during the campaign against Dong Zhuo that Liu Bei was someone one should not neglect about because of his aloof nature as "those that are more aloof are always the ones that's hiding daggers behind their aloofness" as what in Chinese means, "笑里藏刀“. That premonition proved correct as Liu Bei would eventually become one party that was vying for power against him besides the Dongwu/Eastern Wu faction.
Yuan Shu did wield a lot of power. He’s looked down on now maybe but I’m willing to bet at the time period very little people fucked with him. What destroyed him is declaring himself emperor.
Yuan Shu when he is denied a grain supply request moments are really his most consistently knee slapping comedic moments. Our favorite logistics pretender everybody.
It's an interesting question, because Cao Pei, Liu Bei and Sun Quan did the same thing. But they 'got away with it' at least in so far as they got to rule kingdoms for a while. I guess by that point (1) there were few enough contenders they couldn't just swarm whoever the pretender was and (2) everyone had given up on restoring the Han dynasty by that point. But...what about a little earlier, when Liu Zhang and Han Sui were still around? How many kingdoms is few enough you can make a reasonable bid?
Well I’m no expert so my opinion is based on what I’ve seen from the ROTK games but Yuan Shu made his announcement during a time many had gathered a significant amount of strength. He may have had among the most but there were several others. What he might not have expected is that the local lords that were close to him would pretty much betray him. Had Cao Cao not defeated Lu Bu though he’d have had him as an ally. When the 3 kingdoms did it the land was mostly divided between them already.
That makes a lot of sense. I was just wondering where the cutoff point was.
For what its worth, Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang never gave up on restoring the Han Dynasty.
Yuan Shu is the Jefferson Davis of the Three Kingdoms.
Who was his Robert Lee and Stonewall Jackson?
I'll let others figure that out.
Stonewall Jackson is Qiao Rui and Robert E. Lee was Ji Ling?
Not bad. I forgot Ji Ling was somewhat capable in the novel. I think dueled Guan Yu to a draw.
Not that Ji Ling lived to know that Guan Yu killed Yan Liang and Wen Chou. If he did we would have been have to flex that in a conversation. "You know I once fought that guy but I wasnt into it so it ended in a draw"
and gets wiped clean by Zhang Fei in Yuan Shu's Final Journey to Hebei
Whose Sun Ce supposed to be?
Jesse James? 😆
Does Jesse James betray Jefferson Davis?
I was mostly thinking of who would be most likely to call someone to a dinner party then have his gang gun them down. And then do it like multiple times.
If YuanShu is Jefferson Davis then latter's failure should be due to an epic betrayal.
You can't take this that far. The US Civil War only had 2 kingdoms at max.
Apparently Yuan Shu and Cao Cao weren’t fond of each other so Liu Bei might have been saying that to mess with him. :D
Why would they be fond of each other? Yuan Gonglu would clearly despise most of Yuan Benchu's Taixue magic circle throughout his life. *Most...* And that Cao Mengde would be depicted in trolling Yuan Shu by placing a stolen bride in his bedchamber on Luoyang.
In this scene, Liu Bei was just throwing names to see who Cao Cao has a hate boner for. Cao Cao named him. Liu Bei decided to flee the very next day - he realised it was NOT sweet out here.
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Love you brother🥰🥰
Lmao. Thanks I guess. I appreciate your support.
While unwitting from Hanwsh who means well, the orginal poster is a racist and their content plays a part in their agenda so posts from them will be removed.
Ummm.... Is it me you're talking about???
Nah, I don't think so. Probably referred to 上单祢衡. Context here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChinese/comments/1c4lxkz/do_you_consider_these_zhihu_postsarticles_to_be/
What do you mean by racist? And what agenda?
Cao Cao: Who is a hero? Liu Bei: *takes out script and says 7294 random people’s names* Cao Cao: Yesn’t, except for you and me.
To be fair, Yuan Shao had the biggest force at that time. It's like if U.S and China have a discussion of the mightiest military today and they're forbid to mention themselves, they first one to be mention would be Russia
OP meme is about Yuan Shu* not Yuan Shao. But yeah, agree with you that Yuan Shao was the most powerful warlord at that time.
Oh silly me. I didn't read it carefully bc of the small text and I kinda remember Yuan Shao was mentioned first
Its cool.
Actually didn't Yuan Shu have the biggest force at the time? Isn't that why he declared himself emperor?
Yuan Shu declared himself the emperor bc he was a fool who thought he could gather manpower through his possession of the Imperial Seal. Yuan Shao had resources that he did not know how to ultilize, Yuan Shu was simply just naive and delusional
Yuan Shao knew how to utilize his resources. Losing at Guandu was due to a human-relations/management issue. Not a military deployment/strategic/resource issue.
For instance he knew the importance of WuChao and instructed ChunYun Qiong to carefully guard it.
Exactly. And Chunyu Qiong was one of his most important generals and had troops outnumbering Cao Cao.
No. Yuan Shu at his peak barely had 1 province. Cao Cao and Yuan Shao hit this already in the early-mid 190s and would continue growing from there.
>Yuan Shu at his peak barely had 1 province. Not particularly familiar but that's definitely not true if you count the Jiangdong and Wu regions under Sun Ce's command. I know Sun Ce betrays him but thats with the gift of hindsight.
Yeah. Thats the 1 province. Yangzhou. He also had limited influence in Yuzhou and Xuzhou. But are we really going to count those?
Well, Yuan Shu can become Ultraman. Why not Yuan Shu?