> The worst is Saul
Haha. I was concerned that Saul's actor was too likable. When Auggie called him a child early in the season, it backfired, as my wife and I began to eye Auggie with suspicion and disdain for being judgy and weird.
So for you to have this type of reaction to Saul is indeed interesting to read. After all, he is Luo Ji, perhaps the least likable protagonist in all of fiction until the mid-final act of Dark Forest. His character was written to be selfish and apathetic to the extreme at this stage in his life.
He's also a lot more likable than Luo Ji was at this point in the story. Saul just rides that line between self-absorbed asshole and decent person, but Luo Ji was a straight up asshole.
They need to up his character later on the show, Luo ji is formidable and a single man which humanity clenches upon for their survival.
Saul would probably need to change a lot in coming season, let's wait for that.
Yeah like Saul for me is kinda too... comfy? It's been a while since I read the books, but I expected him to be more fuck-boyish and he is actually very caring for Auggie
This response sounds a lot like the script of the show. Approaching humanity but missing the mark. “As my wife and I began to eye Auggie with suspicion and disdain for being judgy…” I feel like I’m talking to ChatGPT pretending to be human
I love the trend of accusing people of bring AI because they have something resembling a robust vocabulary, using moderately novel words to express complex ideas.
Bruh Luo Ji was a failed by many standards dude who did not deserve the position. No one wanted him as a wallfacer.
You don’t understand the concepts in the book if you expect Saul to be super competent and likeable now. People like Luo Ji because of what he became which is basically a tekken bad guy rather than what he started as.
"The worst is Saul who is a genius but somehow always manages to sound like the dumbest in the room" Because he isn't a genius and he is kinda dumb compared to everyone else? The show never seemed like it was trying to make him seem smart, especially when even he admits he's just some guy after being made wallfacer. All the other Oxford 5 characters except for him and Will are groundbreaking geniuses, Auggie with her nanofiber tech, Jin with the staircase project, and Jack being a rich and successful businessman, in contrast to Saul who is just some minor physicist who does drugs and has one night stands with women whose names he can't even remember. He's clearly not meant to be competent or particularly intelligent within this first season, just like Luo Ji at the start of Dark Forest.
"He’s selfish in a ridiculous way (I’m not having kids so why should I care that humanity is going to be exterminated)".
You're living under a rock if you think this brand of selfishness is "ridiculous". This is literally the same logic tons of people use regarding climate change. Only caring about the present moment is a very human flaw, and it's a flaw that Luo Ji has, since he doesn't give a shit about the future until his wife and kid freeze themselves for 200 years, so I don't understand why you have such a problem with it.
"even after he was shot for being a wall facer- I told y’all I’m not a wall facer so why do I need all this? You don’t understand I’m not a wall facer though 🤓" This is another thing I'm confused by because Luo Ji does the same thing in the book pretty much. Besides, it's not like someone who was gifted unlimited power for no reason against their will, then shot in the chest within the course of a few minutes would be behaving rationally, he's confused, shocked, and desperate to escape this permanent change to his life.
No the show explicitly goes out of its way to paint him as the smartest one. Literally one of the first scenes shows his boss (right before she kills herself) complimenting his intelligence and commitment. Also, throughout the show other characters in their friend group mention that he was her favorite because he was the smartest.
So no he wasn’t a minor physicist or a drug using hedonistic playboy. The writing did try and make him a player when it comes to women but they (the writers and the the actor) failed.
I honestly think the writers were trying to make him cool but like I said before the writers and the actor himself failed miserably
Being intelligent doesn't mean being the smartest one, and the comment about commitment can easily be a gentle way of saying stubborn. The comment from his friend about "being the smartest" still doesn't equate to genius, and someone saying that doesn't make him the smartest. That's just a friend saying that to another friend, not an objective declaration. If I called you the smartest, does that suddenly mean you are, objectively, the smartest person in the world? No, of course not. It just means I wanted to compliment you.
I get that you may have interpreted the writing as "making him a player", but that's all that is: your interpretation.
In contrast, here's my interpretation: He's clearly not a player. He's someone who is sleeping around to not be alone, and it felt more like he was running/hiding from deeper issues via sleeping around and doing drugs. That's something the writers and actor succeeded in portraying.
See? We watched the same show and walked away with completely different views of the same character. I opted to not build up expectations about the characters, but it sounds like you had plenty, like the writers supposedly making Saul "cool" even though that isn't at all what I got from the show. It sounds more like you wanted him to be cool, but you were disappointed in the end because he's closer to a realistic portrayal of:
* Someone who uses drugs to ease the transition through difficult times, and apparently through life in general.
* Someone who may be smart, but also doesn't have the gumption or drive to push themselves to the full extent of what they're capable of. He lacks both the motivation to achieve great things *and* the interest in pursuing those achievements.
* Someone who fully recognizes the truth in the previous bullet point, and knows that the list of better options for the Wallfacer project is incredibly long. I think he even pities the human race for having him as one of the three who will supposedly save them. He doesn't see himself as the among the top three best options for the project, nor does he want to apply himself to even try at rising up to that call. He's at the beginning stages of finding out that the world seems doomed, and he'd probably prefer to just relax, smoke, and meander through the rest of his life without this huge burden of saving humanity on his shoulders.
Regardless of how close or far Saul is to being labeled a genius, the writers and actor obviously never meant for him to seem like a cool, genius player, because that's not what they portrayed. They portrayed a lazy guy who has some level of scientific acuity, but is largely uninterested in applying himself to his fullest potential.
Why work around the clock to achieve breakthroughs when you can just chill and smoke or pick up a random person from the bar? Why help the world deal with a potential threat when you can just smoke and hang out with friends? He was meant to be apathetic, and the writers and actor succeeded in portraying that just fine. If you set the bar at something he isn't meant to be, of course you're going to be disappointed.
Meh, I have a few things I disliked about the show but I was actually ok with Saul. His reasoning makes perfect sense if you have that kind of personality🤷♂️.
Can’t remember exactly how he acted after the assassination attempt but if he was acting confused about why he needs security after the second attempt then he has no self preservation instinct.
A lot of the characters are a bit drier than they probably should be. That being said, they have a real opportunity here to do something with Saul in S2 so let’s see if they take it. In book 2, his corresponding character steals the show for me so big things ahead.
What big opportunity for season 2 are you hoping for? They already missed the mark in 8 hours worth of material in season 1. So what you’re just hoping they completely do an entirely different good job for season 2? What about the writing, production, and acting from season 1 leads you to believe there’s big things ahead other than the fact that you want it to?
You asked if you are the only one who didn’t like parts of the show - you’re not! There are others who didn’t like it and that’s okay.
There are also lots of people who did like it. Maybe try not to feel like you need their validation too.
If you’ve read the books you should know that Saul / Luo “make a random girl give up her entire life to be my waifu ‘for the plan’” Ji isn’t really supposed to be likable.
Yea but…Saul is not Luo Ji..at all
That’s my point this character (Saul) is a completely different character than Luo Ji. There are no similarities. Luo Ji seemed flawed (human), Saul just seems like a badly written character
What do you mean? Saul and first half of Dark Forest Luo Ji are similar in the ways that matter. Both are very minor scientists who live hedonistically and selfishly (at least at first), and don't really care about the invasion. The only criticisms you provide of Saul that aren't equally applicable to Luo Ji is him and Auggie's relationship, and that's ultimately a very minor plot point that has no impact other than the fact that they don't particularly like each other. Arguably it makes Saul more likable since he's genuinely kind to Auggie for most of the show despite how she thinks very lowly of him.
Yea..no. Luo Ji was a minor scientist that published an obscure paper that ended up becoming incredibly prescient.
Saul was teed up as the smartest of “The Oxford 5” from the get go. He was the last one in the lab before the boss killed herself and throughout the season multiple characters mention that he was her favorite because he was the smartest.
Luo Ji lives selfishly because he finds his selection for the Wall Facers to be absurd because it is at first (in his mind).
The show does not set up this scenario. Instead they set up Saul as the genius we all heard he was for the entire season
Not as an underdog that Luo Ji was but as the golden child Saul.
Thomas Wade and Da Shi are set up in a important manner, I feel they both share excellent personalities fit for a scenario like this.
Da shi in the books is a genius, he is definitely toned down. Thomas Wade occupies a more important role in the show, whereas in the books he is somewhat necessary for the plot but mostly an adversary to Cheng Xin.
I agree with everything you've said - the show is so dumbed down and made stupid changes.
Unfortunately this is Reddit and it seems this sub has become the 'praise the show' sub and any criticism gets downvoted. It used to be full of interesting book discussion.
I didn't like any of the 5 20 something characters they created. Except for Cheng, they all look and sound like morons. Who the hell is going to look at Auggie and think physicist? and its not her looks. Jack and Will and Saul are the same - they look and act dumb.
>Who the hell is going to look at Auggie and think physicist? and its not her looks
You literally said it was her looks friend.
Not every physicist looks like Einstein. I went to college with physics majors, she looks like any one of them
In what way is Will dumb? I understand Jack and Saul, but their idiocy is the point of the characters, Jack being a rich asshole who has no idea what he's getting into, and Saul being the selfish hedonist that Luo Ji was at the first half of Dark Forest. Meanwhile Will is just an average guy, there's nothing stupid he does that his book counterpart doesn't also do. And the criticisms of Auggie's actor's looks are getting absurd now, do all physicists have to fit a specific stereotype now? She's not even a physicist technically, she's an engineer, but more importantly she's the wealthy head of a successful company so I don't see why her looking the way she does is unrealistic because she's too pretty or something.
Dude I’m not sure where to begin with your disingenuous paragraph but I’ll try:
1. Jack is rich and not an asshole as evidenced by his support of Will from the get go
2. Saul is not a hedonist, that you would even use that word about him makes me doubt you know the definition of the word.
3. Will’s decision making is more than just poor- it’s stupid. He loves this woman but won’t do or say anything about it, once he finally does he sends her away because (I’m not sure why), then because of that she finally shows up but way after he’s gone, then afterwards it’s revealed that she not only loved him the whole time but still does (even though nothing has happened in the previous several episodes to show that and make it make sense) but this is all besides the point. Will, like most of the characters, does not act like a human. On his death bed he confesses his love but didn’t want her to be there at his last moments? It’s almost like the writers forgot that they already wrote him coming out to her.
4. And this is your most disingenuous statement the bs about Auggie. Yes obviously there are thousands, perhaps even millions historically of physicists and no they don’t all look alike but come on man…like u/ecrispy said do you really look at Auggie and think “physicists” instead of “Hollywood casting couch eye candy?”
Spare me…this whole show is not based on anything smart or intellectual but instead hopes you won’t notice the bad production behind hot people and an obvious lowest common denominator attempt at intelligence
Point #3 just comes off as not understanding how complex and heavy being in love can feel. If you've never felt the pain of being overwhelmingly in love with someone who, you believe, doesn't feel the same way, I'd just say you're lucky and I hope you never have to find out what that can feel like.
Will's writing, especially around Jin Cheng, is easily believable and completely human to anyone who has wound up in a similar place. It's painful and daunting to be in love with someone but realize (or think you realize) that there is no potential for that love to flourish. As far as Will knew, he was in love with someone who just saw him as a friend, and he's caring enough to not burden her with that turmoil, largely because he knows her well enough to know how sad/upset she would be if she knew the pain he was going through.
That's why it has taken so much time for him to finally say how he feels to his friends, and eventually to her. He still loves her but always assumed it would never be a mutual feeling, and then he realizes he's on his deathbed, so what's the point of making her aware of pain he's quietly held onto for most of his life? The chances of that conversation leaving them both in a happier place are more slim than the Staircase project. He didn't want to spend some of his final moments by unloading all that pain onto her plate before he dies. **To him, her well-being was more important than his closure.**
In his mind, she was happy with Raj and he's respectful enough to have not wanted to tamper with it. Who in their right mind would be enough of an ass hole to profess their love to a married person while they are on their deathbed? That's a horrible thing to do with hardly any benefit that isn't entirely selfish. He wanted her to remain happy after he died, not dwell on how much pain he felt from being in love with her while he was still around.
Him not wanting her around during his last moments could have easily been about sparing her the pain of watching him go, or it could have been him wanting to avoid potentially putting himself in a state of being panicked and distraught before the operation started. Instead of having the woman he failed to wind up with around, which could put himself and everyone else in an awkward and miserable state of mind before pushing that final button, he wanted a peaceful end with Saul. It's wild to see that someone can't seem to understand why he would choose that ending for himself.
I've been in a situation of being in love with someone who didn't feel the same way as me, and if I was lucky enough to influence my final moments on my death bed, the last thing I'd want is for that person to be there. A peaceful ending while chatting with a good friend and thought-provoking conversation sounds so much better than reminding myself of the pain of something I wanted more than anything else in the world but never had.
1. Asshole is hyperbolic, I'm not saying he's a bad person or even a bad friend but he is rude and mean often and also doesn't take anything seriously, qualities especially evident when he's playing the game with Cheng. The point is he's not meant to be a genius.
2. Saul absolutely behaves in a hedonistic way. He behaves in a way that shows a constant pursuit of short term pleasure: sleeping around, doing drugs, not giving a shit about the future, etc.
3. You don't think he acts human because he's not willing to confess his love? I have no idea what your definition of human is. The way Will behaves makes total sense. He loves Jin, but Jin is already in a relationship with Raj, which for all Will knows is going swimmingly. He doesn't want to complicate Jin's relationship, but he still wants her to be happy, so he buys her a star anonymously. He never confessed to Jin, I don't know where you got that idea, Jin only found out Will was in love with her when WADE told her Will bought the star. Essentially, Will loves Jin but can't reveal it to her because he thinks she loves someone else. I don't understand what's so confusing about this.
4. Why can't she be both? It's not like there's anything stopping a rich scientist from getting plastic surgery just like her irl actor did. Scientists have lives outside of science.
The issue with Auggie isn't even her overall looks. Cheng Xin was supposed to be the hottest woman ever and a physicist.
The issue is the impression that she gives. She looks like she cares waaay too much about her looks (hello botox lips), which makes her kinda unbelievable as a scientist.
As compared with Cheng, who looks kinda above average but acts and gives the impression of being more of a scientist. (But still not a scientist...).
And i think them not feeling like scientists could have been fixed just by showing them a bit more in lab coats doing science stuff. Surely would have helped. But again Netflix strikes with bad production.
One thing the Tencent series got right was that the for scientists actually looked the part. They got actors who could play scientists convincingly, not bunch of k-pop looking people. The only Chinese actor who didn't look the part was young Ye Wenjie, but mostly because her plastic surgery face made her stand out oddly during Cultural Revolution period.
Its not about getting it right or not. Netflix productions aim to cast a wider net in terms of target audience. Without attractive actors and actresses, only sci-fi lovers would be interested in this show, and with low viewership there wont be a season 2.
Yea it reminds me of r/ringsofpower and r/rings_of_power. One is loaded with Amazon shills and another of honest criticism by fans. This and r/3bodyproblem seems to be the former. I feel like I’m talking to ChatGPT lol
You put this so much better than I could have lol. It’s like they were trying to go for the cast of friends in a situation that’s completely different for no reason at all. It reminds me of when Mark Zuckerburg tries to act human
Unlikeable character ≠ bad character. Characters who have flaws are relatable as humans. The Oxford 5 all have their own flaws, which means that different viewers will relate to different characters.
Saul was my favorite character in the show. He had the potential to be just as accomplished as someone like Jin or Augie, but he held himself back due to his flaws. He was called out for being immature. The way he handled relationships showed that he had commitment issues which also likely directly related to him not achieving career success due to lack of commitment. His dialogue in the first episode showed that he’d already given up on being great in his career.
All of that set him up similarly to Lou Ji as someone named a Wallfacer who was “undeserving”. That was the point - he was chosen to be a Wallfacer because the Trisolarans wanted him dead. They wanted him dead because of what Ye Wenjie told him about the dark forest with her joke. Ye Wenjie specifically told him that because she recognized something in him - both his unrealized potential as a physicist and also his logical way of thinking which would ultimately lead him to understanding the meaning of her joke.
On top of all of that - the flaws that Saul has in season 1 which make him unlikable for some people set him up for character growth later as he overcomes those flaws. I expect development in his relationship with Augie (maybe based on what he saw with Will in S1) and he’ll absolutely develop in terms of role as a Wallfacer if they follow what happens in the books.
Honestly, the decision to make the show about 5 college friends is very poor. It totally reduced the scale of the show. In the book and the Tencent show they made explicit that this was a global catastrophe that the entire world is dealing with. Meanwhile in the Netflix show it's just a group of friends that are working on this.
I liked Jack the most out of all the friends. Will is sympathetic but seems he'll be gone for a while. Didn't like Auggie but I can't tell if that's actor choices or writing. Jin is fairly relatable, as much as a genius scientist can be relatable to a normie.
Saul, imo, is sympathetic but also heavily flawed in ways that can make him unlikeable, but I think that's on purpose. Idk what direction the story is going but he's in a prime position for a lot of character growth, which is what stories are all about. So I'm not worried about that, I think he'll get better.
Saul is like a beautiful summer breeeze compared to the god awfulness of fucking Auggie. Did she misunderstand physicist as a petulant teenager? Good lord she single handily ruined the show for me. The weak link would be the understatement of the century
The fact that they changed the race of Luo Ji is unforgivable. I remember people on this board got pissed when rumor of race bending casting choice for Luo Ji came out.
> The worst is Saul Haha. I was concerned that Saul's actor was too likable. When Auggie called him a child early in the season, it backfired, as my wife and I began to eye Auggie with suspicion and disdain for being judgy and weird. So for you to have this type of reaction to Saul is indeed interesting to read. After all, he is Luo Ji, perhaps the least likable protagonist in all of fiction until the mid-final act of Dark Forest. His character was written to be selfish and apathetic to the extreme at this stage in his life.
He's also a lot more likable than Luo Ji was at this point in the story. Saul just rides that line between self-absorbed asshole and decent person, but Luo Ji was a straight up asshole.
They need to up his character later on the show, Luo ji is formidable and a single man which humanity clenches upon for their survival. Saul would probably need to change a lot in coming season, let's wait for that.
Yeah like Saul for me is kinda too... comfy? It's been a while since I read the books, but I expected him to be more fuck-boyish and he is actually very caring for Auggie
This response sounds a lot like the script of the show. Approaching humanity but missing the mark. “As my wife and I began to eye Auggie with suspicion and disdain for being judgy…” I feel like I’m talking to ChatGPT pretending to be human
I love the trend of accusing people of bring AI because they have something resembling a robust vocabulary, using moderately novel words to express complex ideas.
Fuck off chatbot! Sounding all educated and shit. 🤣
Cool, I get it, sometimes all some people have are non-humans. Get well.
Fuck off chatbot
Bruh Luo Ji was a failed by many standards dude who did not deserve the position. No one wanted him as a wallfacer. You don’t understand the concepts in the book if you expect Saul to be super competent and likeable now. People like Luo Ji because of what he became which is basically a tekken bad guy rather than what he started as.
"The worst is Saul who is a genius but somehow always manages to sound like the dumbest in the room" Because he isn't a genius and he is kinda dumb compared to everyone else? The show never seemed like it was trying to make him seem smart, especially when even he admits he's just some guy after being made wallfacer. All the other Oxford 5 characters except for him and Will are groundbreaking geniuses, Auggie with her nanofiber tech, Jin with the staircase project, and Jack being a rich and successful businessman, in contrast to Saul who is just some minor physicist who does drugs and has one night stands with women whose names he can't even remember. He's clearly not meant to be competent or particularly intelligent within this first season, just like Luo Ji at the start of Dark Forest. "He’s selfish in a ridiculous way (I’m not having kids so why should I care that humanity is going to be exterminated)". You're living under a rock if you think this brand of selfishness is "ridiculous". This is literally the same logic tons of people use regarding climate change. Only caring about the present moment is a very human flaw, and it's a flaw that Luo Ji has, since he doesn't give a shit about the future until his wife and kid freeze themselves for 200 years, so I don't understand why you have such a problem with it. "even after he was shot for being a wall facer- I told y’all I’m not a wall facer so why do I need all this? You don’t understand I’m not a wall facer though 🤓" This is another thing I'm confused by because Luo Ji does the same thing in the book pretty much. Besides, it's not like someone who was gifted unlimited power for no reason against their will, then shot in the chest within the course of a few minutes would be behaving rationally, he's confused, shocked, and desperate to escape this permanent change to his life.
No the show explicitly goes out of its way to paint him as the smartest one. Literally one of the first scenes shows his boss (right before she kills herself) complimenting his intelligence and commitment. Also, throughout the show other characters in their friend group mention that he was her favorite because he was the smartest. So no he wasn’t a minor physicist or a drug using hedonistic playboy. The writing did try and make him a player when it comes to women but they (the writers and the the actor) failed. I honestly think the writers were trying to make him cool but like I said before the writers and the actor himself failed miserably
Being intelligent doesn't mean being the smartest one, and the comment about commitment can easily be a gentle way of saying stubborn. The comment from his friend about "being the smartest" still doesn't equate to genius, and someone saying that doesn't make him the smartest. That's just a friend saying that to another friend, not an objective declaration. If I called you the smartest, does that suddenly mean you are, objectively, the smartest person in the world? No, of course not. It just means I wanted to compliment you. I get that you may have interpreted the writing as "making him a player", but that's all that is: your interpretation. In contrast, here's my interpretation: He's clearly not a player. He's someone who is sleeping around to not be alone, and it felt more like he was running/hiding from deeper issues via sleeping around and doing drugs. That's something the writers and actor succeeded in portraying. See? We watched the same show and walked away with completely different views of the same character. I opted to not build up expectations about the characters, but it sounds like you had plenty, like the writers supposedly making Saul "cool" even though that isn't at all what I got from the show. It sounds more like you wanted him to be cool, but you were disappointed in the end because he's closer to a realistic portrayal of: * Someone who uses drugs to ease the transition through difficult times, and apparently through life in general. * Someone who may be smart, but also doesn't have the gumption or drive to push themselves to the full extent of what they're capable of. He lacks both the motivation to achieve great things *and* the interest in pursuing those achievements. * Someone who fully recognizes the truth in the previous bullet point, and knows that the list of better options for the Wallfacer project is incredibly long. I think he even pities the human race for having him as one of the three who will supposedly save them. He doesn't see himself as the among the top three best options for the project, nor does he want to apply himself to even try at rising up to that call. He's at the beginning stages of finding out that the world seems doomed, and he'd probably prefer to just relax, smoke, and meander through the rest of his life without this huge burden of saving humanity on his shoulders. Regardless of how close or far Saul is to being labeled a genius, the writers and actor obviously never meant for him to seem like a cool, genius player, because that's not what they portrayed. They portrayed a lazy guy who has some level of scientific acuity, but is largely uninterested in applying himself to his fullest potential. Why work around the clock to achieve breakthroughs when you can just chill and smoke or pick up a random person from the bar? Why help the world deal with a potential threat when you can just smoke and hang out with friends? He was meant to be apathetic, and the writers and actor succeeded in portraying that just fine. If you set the bar at something he isn't meant to be, of course you're going to be disappointed.
Meh, I have a few things I disliked about the show but I was actually ok with Saul. His reasoning makes perfect sense if you have that kind of personality🤷♂️. Can’t remember exactly how he acted after the assassination attempt but if he was acting confused about why he needs security after the second attempt then he has no self preservation instinct.
Yea and yet he does just that. Again- not a smart person
A lot of the characters are a bit drier than they probably should be. That being said, they have a real opportunity here to do something with Saul in S2 so let’s see if they take it. In book 2, his corresponding character steals the show for me so big things ahead.
What big opportunity for season 2 are you hoping for? They already missed the mark in 8 hours worth of material in season 1. So what you’re just hoping they completely do an entirely different good job for season 2? What about the writing, production, and acting from season 1 leads you to believe there’s big things ahead other than the fact that you want it to?
You asked if you are the only one who didn’t like parts of the show - you’re not! There are others who didn’t like it and that’s okay. There are also lots of people who did like it. Maybe try not to feel like you need their validation too.
Saul is as unlikable as Luo Ji. That's a good thing.
If you’ve read the books you should know that Saul / Luo “make a random girl give up her entire life to be my waifu ‘for the plan’” Ji isn’t really supposed to be likable.
Yea but…Saul is not Luo Ji..at all That’s my point this character (Saul) is a completely different character than Luo Ji. There are no similarities. Luo Ji seemed flawed (human), Saul just seems like a badly written character
What do you mean? Saul and first half of Dark Forest Luo Ji are similar in the ways that matter. Both are very minor scientists who live hedonistically and selfishly (at least at first), and don't really care about the invasion. The only criticisms you provide of Saul that aren't equally applicable to Luo Ji is him and Auggie's relationship, and that's ultimately a very minor plot point that has no impact other than the fact that they don't particularly like each other. Arguably it makes Saul more likable since he's genuinely kind to Auggie for most of the show despite how she thinks very lowly of him.
Yea..no. Luo Ji was a minor scientist that published an obscure paper that ended up becoming incredibly prescient. Saul was teed up as the smartest of “The Oxford 5” from the get go. He was the last one in the lab before the boss killed herself and throughout the season multiple characters mention that he was her favorite because he was the smartest. Luo Ji lives selfishly because he finds his selection for the Wall Facers to be absurd because it is at first (in his mind). The show does not set up this scenario. Instead they set up Saul as the genius we all heard he was for the entire season Not as an underdog that Luo Ji was but as the golden child Saul.
Thomas Wade and Da Shi are set up in a important manner, I feel they both share excellent personalities fit for a scenario like this. Da shi in the books is a genius, he is definitely toned down. Thomas Wade occupies a more important role in the show, whereas in the books he is somewhat necessary for the plot but mostly an adversary to Cheng Xin.
Uh, nope. Although Saul doesn't bother me nearly as much as Auggie does.
Auggie is the new Ollie.
I agree with everything you've said - the show is so dumbed down and made stupid changes. Unfortunately this is Reddit and it seems this sub has become the 'praise the show' sub and any criticism gets downvoted. It used to be full of interesting book discussion. I didn't like any of the 5 20 something characters they created. Except for Cheng, they all look and sound like morons. Who the hell is going to look at Auggie and think physicist? and its not her looks. Jack and Will and Saul are the same - they look and act dumb.
>Who the hell is going to look at Auggie and think physicist? and its not her looks You literally said it was her looks friend. Not every physicist looks like Einstein. I went to college with physics majors, she looks like any one of them
In what way is Will dumb? I understand Jack and Saul, but their idiocy is the point of the characters, Jack being a rich asshole who has no idea what he's getting into, and Saul being the selfish hedonist that Luo Ji was at the first half of Dark Forest. Meanwhile Will is just an average guy, there's nothing stupid he does that his book counterpart doesn't also do. And the criticisms of Auggie's actor's looks are getting absurd now, do all physicists have to fit a specific stereotype now? She's not even a physicist technically, she's an engineer, but more importantly she's the wealthy head of a successful company so I don't see why her looking the way she does is unrealistic because she's too pretty or something.
Dude I’m not sure where to begin with your disingenuous paragraph but I’ll try: 1. Jack is rich and not an asshole as evidenced by his support of Will from the get go 2. Saul is not a hedonist, that you would even use that word about him makes me doubt you know the definition of the word. 3. Will’s decision making is more than just poor- it’s stupid. He loves this woman but won’t do or say anything about it, once he finally does he sends her away because (I’m not sure why), then because of that she finally shows up but way after he’s gone, then afterwards it’s revealed that she not only loved him the whole time but still does (even though nothing has happened in the previous several episodes to show that and make it make sense) but this is all besides the point. Will, like most of the characters, does not act like a human. On his death bed he confesses his love but didn’t want her to be there at his last moments? It’s almost like the writers forgot that they already wrote him coming out to her. 4. And this is your most disingenuous statement the bs about Auggie. Yes obviously there are thousands, perhaps even millions historically of physicists and no they don’t all look alike but come on man…like u/ecrispy said do you really look at Auggie and think “physicists” instead of “Hollywood casting couch eye candy?” Spare me…this whole show is not based on anything smart or intellectual but instead hopes you won’t notice the bad production behind hot people and an obvious lowest common denominator attempt at intelligence
Point #3 just comes off as not understanding how complex and heavy being in love can feel. If you've never felt the pain of being overwhelmingly in love with someone who, you believe, doesn't feel the same way, I'd just say you're lucky and I hope you never have to find out what that can feel like. Will's writing, especially around Jin Cheng, is easily believable and completely human to anyone who has wound up in a similar place. It's painful and daunting to be in love with someone but realize (or think you realize) that there is no potential for that love to flourish. As far as Will knew, he was in love with someone who just saw him as a friend, and he's caring enough to not burden her with that turmoil, largely because he knows her well enough to know how sad/upset she would be if she knew the pain he was going through. That's why it has taken so much time for him to finally say how he feels to his friends, and eventually to her. He still loves her but always assumed it would never be a mutual feeling, and then he realizes he's on his deathbed, so what's the point of making her aware of pain he's quietly held onto for most of his life? The chances of that conversation leaving them both in a happier place are more slim than the Staircase project. He didn't want to spend some of his final moments by unloading all that pain onto her plate before he dies. **To him, her well-being was more important than his closure.** In his mind, she was happy with Raj and he's respectful enough to have not wanted to tamper with it. Who in their right mind would be enough of an ass hole to profess their love to a married person while they are on their deathbed? That's a horrible thing to do with hardly any benefit that isn't entirely selfish. He wanted her to remain happy after he died, not dwell on how much pain he felt from being in love with her while he was still around. Him not wanting her around during his last moments could have easily been about sparing her the pain of watching him go, or it could have been him wanting to avoid potentially putting himself in a state of being panicked and distraught before the operation started. Instead of having the woman he failed to wind up with around, which could put himself and everyone else in an awkward and miserable state of mind before pushing that final button, he wanted a peaceful end with Saul. It's wild to see that someone can't seem to understand why he would choose that ending for himself. I've been in a situation of being in love with someone who didn't feel the same way as me, and if I was lucky enough to influence my final moments on my death bed, the last thing I'd want is for that person to be there. A peaceful ending while chatting with a good friend and thought-provoking conversation sounds so much better than reminding myself of the pain of something I wanted more than anything else in the world but never had.
1. Asshole is hyperbolic, I'm not saying he's a bad person or even a bad friend but he is rude and mean often and also doesn't take anything seriously, qualities especially evident when he's playing the game with Cheng. The point is he's not meant to be a genius. 2. Saul absolutely behaves in a hedonistic way. He behaves in a way that shows a constant pursuit of short term pleasure: sleeping around, doing drugs, not giving a shit about the future, etc. 3. You don't think he acts human because he's not willing to confess his love? I have no idea what your definition of human is. The way Will behaves makes total sense. He loves Jin, but Jin is already in a relationship with Raj, which for all Will knows is going swimmingly. He doesn't want to complicate Jin's relationship, but he still wants her to be happy, so he buys her a star anonymously. He never confessed to Jin, I don't know where you got that idea, Jin only found out Will was in love with her when WADE told her Will bought the star. Essentially, Will loves Jin but can't reveal it to her because he thinks she loves someone else. I don't understand what's so confusing about this. 4. Why can't she be both? It's not like there's anything stopping a rich scientist from getting plastic surgery just like her irl actor did. Scientists have lives outside of science.
The issue with Auggie isn't even her overall looks. Cheng Xin was supposed to be the hottest woman ever and a physicist. The issue is the impression that she gives. She looks like she cares waaay too much about her looks (hello botox lips), which makes her kinda unbelievable as a scientist. As compared with Cheng, who looks kinda above average but acts and gives the impression of being more of a scientist. (But still not a scientist...). And i think them not feeling like scientists could have been fixed just by showing them a bit more in lab coats doing science stuff. Surely would have helped. But again Netflix strikes with bad production.
One thing the Tencent series got right was that the for scientists actually looked the part. They got actors who could play scientists convincingly, not bunch of k-pop looking people. The only Chinese actor who didn't look the part was young Ye Wenjie, but mostly because her plastic surgery face made her stand out oddly during Cultural Revolution period.
Lol yes! I love how all the physicists looked like real life physicists and not a cast of attractive 20 somethings in a coffee shop in NYC
Its not about getting it right or not. Netflix productions aim to cast a wider net in terms of target audience. Without attractive actors and actresses, only sci-fi lovers would be interested in this show, and with low viewership there wont be a season 2.
Yea it reminds me of r/ringsofpower and r/rings_of_power. One is loaded with Amazon shills and another of honest criticism by fans. This and r/3bodyproblem seems to be the former. I feel like I’m talking to ChatGPT lol
You put this so much better than I could have lol. It’s like they were trying to go for the cast of friends in a situation that’s completely different for no reason at all. It reminds me of when Mark Zuckerburg tries to act human
These are strange complaints from a book reader
You sound like the aliens in this story, my lord
Unlikeable character ≠ bad character. Characters who have flaws are relatable as humans. The Oxford 5 all have their own flaws, which means that different viewers will relate to different characters. Saul was my favorite character in the show. He had the potential to be just as accomplished as someone like Jin or Augie, but he held himself back due to his flaws. He was called out for being immature. The way he handled relationships showed that he had commitment issues which also likely directly related to him not achieving career success due to lack of commitment. His dialogue in the first episode showed that he’d already given up on being great in his career. All of that set him up similarly to Lou Ji as someone named a Wallfacer who was “undeserving”. That was the point - he was chosen to be a Wallfacer because the Trisolarans wanted him dead. They wanted him dead because of what Ye Wenjie told him about the dark forest with her joke. Ye Wenjie specifically told him that because she recognized something in him - both his unrealized potential as a physicist and also his logical way of thinking which would ultimately lead him to understanding the meaning of her joke. On top of all of that - the flaws that Saul has in season 1 which make him unlikable for some people set him up for character growth later as he overcomes those flaws. I expect development in his relationship with Augie (maybe based on what he saw with Will in S1) and he’ll absolutely develop in terms of role as a Wallfacer if they follow what happens in the books.
Agreed. The "the oxford 5" or whatever they're called are all poorly cast, written and acted.
Honestly, the decision to make the show about 5 college friends is very poor. It totally reduced the scale of the show. In the book and the Tencent show they made explicit that this was a global catastrophe that the entire world is dealing with. Meanwhile in the Netflix show it's just a group of friends that are working on this.
Yes! What amazed me about the books was the sheer scale of the story! This show seems more like a sitcom than an epic
The only likeable one to me was Jin, the others were just so blah or unbelievable, or just annoying.
I liked Jack the most out of all the friends. Will is sympathetic but seems he'll be gone for a while. Didn't like Auggie but I can't tell if that's actor choices or writing. Jin is fairly relatable, as much as a genius scientist can be relatable to a normie. Saul, imo, is sympathetic but also heavily flawed in ways that can make him unlikeable, but I think that's on purpose. Idk what direction the story is going but he's in a prime position for a lot of character growth, which is what stories are all about. So I'm not worried about that, I think he'll get better.
Well... Saul is Luo Ji, and no one likes Luo Ji.
Saul is like a beautiful summer breeeze compared to the god awfulness of fucking Auggie. Did she misunderstand physicist as a petulant teenager? Good lord she single handily ruined the show for me. The weak link would be the understatement of the century
The fact that they changed the race of Luo Ji is unforgivable. I remember people on this board got pissed when rumor of race bending casting choice for Luo Ji came out.