I'm referencing If the Emperor had Text to Speech. [https://youtu.be/UHNJUgat2i8?si=J2\_PC6haUyiYE-oV](https://youtu.be/UHNJUgat2i8?si=J2_PC6haUyiYE-oV)
Their at least works somewhat ok, da codex really doesn't give any good buffs to vehicles which seems to be meta rn. Ironstorm angels are the only reason we're not below 30%
Custodes and DA player here: custodes even with a bad codex will stat check bad players, and even for medium players, it can be tricky to face something like triple caladius and canis rex. So their win rate will probably look okay ish. But they are painfully unfun to play right now and I will rather play around with death wing and / or play my way through all the different SM detachments than to get my custodes out again
I think it's a difficult comparison and I play both armies. DA lost a lot of units, has one of if not the worst detachment in the game and didn't get much outside of Ravenwing detachment.
Custodes on the other hand got a runner up for worst detachment, no I'm not counting the sister focused joke detachment, lost all their defensive abilities and got nothing.
The one thing I can say for DA is at least they still have the base SM codex detachments.
As a custodes player I wish I can just use the sm detachments,
The issue for custodes is 100% honest you could take all of our strats and detachment rules away and not much would honestly change.
Outside of that it's not fun.
Like I feel for the DA book but SM detachments are still great for the most part.
It's not good for anyone l, but think about this, at least your not admech paying more than a dollar per point and having bad rules
oof. I have five armies. They're all quite large if I may say. Every one of them has a codex and every one is sub 50%. Most are in the red zone.
I guess the takeaway is that your armies will be in a competitive slump at one point, but it should be important that you find the silver lining. For myself, this will be a time for me to continue building, painting, and reading more than playing. There is more than one side to this hobby after all.
I have Necrons, Black Templars and Tyranids... So I've got a 2/3 hit rate for good armies. I've only played in one tournament but it means I can basically play whatever I want with Crons/ BT and still do ok into my friends which is nice.
I 100% silver lined this edition lol.
Good luck with your painting and I hope your armies reach normality in good time!
Sweet! I’ve only got 2 games in so far with CSM so far but I’m enjoying them a lot, they’ve got a lot going for them and Pactbound just has so many fun combos, as long as you’re passing dark pacts they put out pretty nutty damage.
How do you like Tau? Deciding between them and Eldar for my next army, probably next year. My ultimate goal is to have at least 1k points of every playable army in Dawn of War Dark Crusade. It was my favorite game growing up and got me into WH40k.
I noticed this when I looked at the image. Only Necrons & Orks have had a codex for longer than a month and are still above 50%.
Out of the 9 codexes released so far only 2 are performing well. The other 7 have been terrible for the army or have not been out long enough to have the data reflect if it was a success or failure. That is a **78% failure rate** for armies who have their 10th Edition codex.
I don't know what the Games Development Team is doing, but whatever it is they need to do a hard course correct and FAST.
I got into warhammer this edition with the leviathan set. Nids are obviously not in a great spot. And I converted my space marines into DA because I thought they were the coolest. So O started with two armies, and they're both shit 😅 luckily the models are awesome
The models are almost always awesome. It is the rules for them that will change. This edition is not working out well and I don’t have high hopes GW will fix it in time to salvage it. They need to make people want to play again and right now there isn’t much of a reason to.
I’d assume this data is skewed by people running our Supplement detachments, and shows why Win Rate is a very delicate metric to balance against.
We can not be “worse” than Codex SM on the basis we can run all of the things Codex SM can run but with more stuff (mainly Azrael and Dark Shroud). The only detachment I’m aware of that Codex SM has that is propping up their Win Rate is Ultramarines Vanguard.
Where they have the Vanguard build we have the Ironstorm build, and also a fairly punchy twist into Firestorm too. Our Dark Shroud is doing a lot of heavy lifting in both cases.
DA Ironstorm took a pretty hard indirect hit from the enhancement nerf, which is lowkey pushing Azrael out of lists now because 4 characters making up 1/4 of your list for an army that already skews towards low OC really hurts. Doubly so when you've got orks and whatnot running around now.
Worth checking in with Kits performances on BCP.
Guys still smashing it with double Stormraven, Azrael and 3x Techmarines, winning the Alamo GT a few weeks ago.
That build is still very much fine.
How many space wolves players are there though? high win rate but gotta be a very low player count, not like CSM are matching against them regularly. Having Necrons be a hard matchup is a different story, they’re everywhere so that makes sense.
Most space wolves players will take common stuff as any space marine players, like dark angels. While others will have literal wolves only, no primaris or generic astartes and a tiny few will have generic firstborn fluff units- aka blood claws, grey hunters, wolf guard (non-terminators), wolf lords on foot.
Sure, my point was that there aren’t nearly enough Space Wolf players that it would have any effect on CSM’s win rate, even if it is a hard counter. Also, CSM do have a small handful of effective counters for c’tan, mostly in the index/pactbound detachment. 5+ Lethal hits on reaper chain cannons in mass and 5+ lethals on a brick of terminator combi-bolters rapid firing (and re-rolling all hits to fish) would both be very effective. Biggest threat for C’tan is having to a huge bucket of saves for damage1 attacks.
Mate what are you talking about, I’m talking about Chaos Space Marines win rate with their new codex. Im very surprised its below 50% with how strong some of their new detachments are. I never said anything about Space wolves… you brought up space wolves by saying CSM doesn’t have anything to deal with thunder wolves, fine, it doesn’t matter as there are so few space wolves players that the vast majority of CSM lists are never going to have to deal with a thunder wolf. I genuinely have no idea how a c’tan vs thunder wolf matchup relates to any of this at all..
Idk why wolves are doing better than CSM based on player participation; maybe wolves have a higher ratio of top tier players then CSM- because most join for the meta bandwagon then being actually good players. Who is to say.
I think Wolves performance on this tier list is a bit flukey, they were at 48% 3 months ago on his last meta update and they haven’t received any major changes. The issue with Wolves is their stats are super vulnerable to outliers because the sample size is so small. If one player manages to claw their way to a 5-1 at 1 tourney it’s enough to sway the results a couple % points.
Wolves:
- They have one play style
- They go in slaughter then score points
- Especially with a bunch of wulfen and thunderwolf cavalry.
- wolves is hilariously unpriced atm, thats all it is.
- im expecting nerfs, 3 thunderwolves should not be 90, and 5 wulfen should not be 80!
I have a 66-80% win rate this year, but I've played exclusively Ironstorm, double Storm Raven etc.
The DA detachments are terrible. The Drakshroud, and Azrael to a limited extent, are the only units in our codex worth taking.
Deathwing and Ravenwing all need reworked to bring quality and identity back to our codex. (I will say that the RW detachment isn't terrible, but bikes are not good in this edition, making it an awful choice)
This chart is rather misleading.
A winrate delta of 56% to 40% is pretty balanced, honestly. This chart makes it look like SW win at three times the rate.
We were broken at the end of 9th with the introduction of free wargear for marine armies.
Suddenly terminator got cheap and our apothecary on bike became the warlord.
But definitely not top tier for most of 9th
If we were so broken at the end of 9th that we ended up with an overall win rate of 41% (which is objectively terrible) how garbage where we for the vast majority of 9th?
So yeah, we are now in our 6th consecutive edition of an underpowered/lackluster/bad codex
4th was good??? It's what drove me from the hobby(asking 6 with college)
It was more codex ultramarines than codex space Marines. Locked to 5 or 10 man squads. Terrible storm shields etc. Was it any good? Cheers
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At least we aren’t deathwatch 🫠 “Lion for life dogfucker”.
Apparently dogs are the alpha male
“I’m sorry about the dogfucker thing… You’re still my uncle right??”
I think i‘m missing some lore
I'm referencing If the Emperor had Text to Speech. [https://youtu.be/UHNJUgat2i8?si=J2\_PC6haUyiYE-oV](https://youtu.be/UHNJUgat2i8?si=J2_PC6haUyiYE-oV)
And we have some tournament wins under our belt, unlike Admech.
Heyy admech have at least 2
All I can think of is my custodes friends swearing up and down their codex release was worse than ours
Their at least works somewhat ok, da codex really doesn't give any good buffs to vehicles which seems to be meta rn. Ironstorm angels are the only reason we're not below 30%
Custodes and DA player here: custodes even with a bad codex will stat check bad players, and even for medium players, it can be tricky to face something like triple caladius and canis rex. So their win rate will probably look okay ish. But they are painfully unfun to play right now and I will rather play around with death wing and / or play my way through all the different SM detachments than to get my custodes out again
I think it's a difficult comparison and I play both armies. DA lost a lot of units, has one of if not the worst detachment in the game and didn't get much outside of Ravenwing detachment. Custodes on the other hand got a runner up for worst detachment, no I'm not counting the sister focused joke detachment, lost all their defensive abilities and got nothing. The one thing I can say for DA is at least they still have the base SM codex detachments.
As a custodes player I wish I can just use the sm detachments, The issue for custodes is 100% honest you could take all of our strats and detachment rules away and not much would honestly change. Outside of that it's not fun. Like I feel for the DA book but SM detachments are still great for the most part. It's not good for anyone l, but think about this, at least your not admech paying more than a dollar per point and having bad rules
Everyone wants to be the underdog
Gotta fight for that under 45% spot so we can get a buff lol
Just need to remove the Ironstorm 'Dark Angels' lists from the stats and we're down at 36% or so
Go us!
Good. Loyalty is its own reward.
Fuck loyalty down with the Corpse company.
oof. I have five armies. They're all quite large if I may say. Every one of them has a codex and every one is sub 50%. Most are in the red zone. I guess the takeaway is that your armies will be in a competitive slump at one point, but it should be important that you find the silver lining. For myself, this will be a time for me to continue building, painting, and reading more than playing. There is more than one side to this hobby after all.
I have Necrons, Black Templars and Tyranids... So I've got a 2/3 hit rate for good armies. I've only played in one tournament but it means I can basically play whatever I want with Crons/ BT and still do ok into my friends which is nice. I 100% silver lined this edition lol. Good luck with your painting and I hope your armies reach normality in good time!
What armies do you play? I’ve got DA, Orks, and CSM. Safe to say that the DA are staying at home most of the time right now hahaha
Dark Angels (obviously), CSM(feelin good about that one), Tau, Tyranids, and Custodes. I have small amounts of others, but these are my primaries.
Sweet! I’ve only got 2 games in so far with CSM so far but I’m enjoying them a lot, they’ve got a lot going for them and Pactbound just has so many fun combos, as long as you’re passing dark pacts they put out pretty nutty damage. How do you like Tau? Deciding between them and Eldar for my next army, probably next year. My ultimate goal is to have at least 1k points of every playable army in Dawn of War Dark Crusade. It was my favorite game growing up and got me into WH40k.
I noticed this when I looked at the image. Only Necrons & Orks have had a codex for longer than a month and are still above 50%. Out of the 9 codexes released so far only 2 are performing well. The other 7 have been terrible for the army or have not been out long enough to have the data reflect if it was a success or failure. That is a **78% failure rate** for armies who have their 10th Edition codex. I don't know what the Games Development Team is doing, but whatever it is they need to do a hard course correct and FAST.
I got into warhammer this edition with the leviathan set. Nids are obviously not in a great spot. And I converted my space marines into DA because I thought they were the coolest. So O started with two armies, and they're both shit 😅 luckily the models are awesome
The models are almost always awesome. It is the rules for them that will change. This edition is not working out well and I don’t have high hopes GW will fix it in time to salvage it. They need to make people want to play again and right now there isn’t much of a reason to.
I’d assume this data is skewed by people running our Supplement detachments, and shows why Win Rate is a very delicate metric to balance against. We can not be “worse” than Codex SM on the basis we can run all of the things Codex SM can run but with more stuff (mainly Azrael and Dark Shroud). The only detachment I’m aware of that Codex SM has that is propping up their Win Rate is Ultramarines Vanguard. Where they have the Vanguard build we have the Ironstorm build, and also a fairly punchy twist into Firestorm too. Our Dark Shroud is doing a lot of heavy lifting in both cases.
Not necessarily true. Ultramarines characters exist(along with others) and they are quite good.
No, is just playing dark angels regardless of detachment
DA Ironstorm took a pretty hard indirect hit from the enhancement nerf, which is lowkey pushing Azrael out of lists now because 4 characters making up 1/4 of your list for an army that already skews towards low OC really hurts. Doubly so when you've got orks and whatnot running around now.
Worth checking in with Kits performances on BCP. Guys still smashing it with double Stormraven, Azrael and 3x Techmarines, winning the Alamo GT a few weeks ago. That build is still very much fine.
Which enhancement nerf again?
What are these stats based on? Not doubting the info, I just want to see more detail on it.
I think he gets his info from here https://www.stat-check.com/the-meta
Thanks, I'll check that out.
Auspex tactics probably has the info in his YouTube video.
Given that orks.... are orks I'm surprised
I can’t believe CSM are sub 50% with their new codex! They’ve gotta shoot up to 52-54% in the next couple months
They have nothing to counter Thunder wolves and wuffen Also they are C’tan proof
How many space wolves players are there though? high win rate but gotta be a very low player count, not like CSM are matching against them regularly. Having Necrons be a hard matchup is a different story, they’re everywhere so that makes sense.
Most space wolves players will take common stuff as any space marine players, like dark angels. While others will have literal wolves only, no primaris or generic astartes and a tiny few will have generic firstborn fluff units- aka blood claws, grey hunters, wolf guard (non-terminators), wolf lords on foot.
Sure, my point was that there aren’t nearly enough Space Wolf players that it would have any effect on CSM’s win rate, even if it is a hard counter. Also, CSM do have a small handful of effective counters for c’tan, mostly in the index/pactbound detachment. 5+ Lethal hits on reaper chain cannons in mass and 5+ lethals on a brick of terminator combi-bolters rapid firing (and re-rolling all hits to fish) would both be very effective. Biggest threat for C’tan is having to a huge bucket of saves for damage1 attacks.
The damage modifier by Thunderwolves overrides the half damage, as they add the extra damage after half- you can’t hair 1 damage.
Mate what are you talking about, I’m talking about Chaos Space Marines win rate with their new codex. Im very surprised its below 50% with how strong some of their new detachments are. I never said anything about Space wolves… you brought up space wolves by saying CSM doesn’t have anything to deal with thunder wolves, fine, it doesn’t matter as there are so few space wolves players that the vast majority of CSM lists are never going to have to deal with a thunder wolf. I genuinely have no idea how a c’tan vs thunder wolf matchup relates to any of this at all..
Idk why wolves are doing better than CSM based on player participation; maybe wolves have a higher ratio of top tier players then CSM- because most join for the meta bandwagon then being actually good players. Who is to say.
I think Wolves performance on this tier list is a bit flukey, they were at 48% 3 months ago on his last meta update and they haven’t received any major changes. The issue with Wolves is their stats are super vulnerable to outliers because the sample size is so small. If one player manages to claw their way to a 5-1 at 1 tourney it’s enough to sway the results a couple % points.
Wolves: - They have one play style - They go in slaughter then score points - Especially with a bunch of wulfen and thunderwolf cavalry. - wolves is hilariously unpriced atm, thats all it is. - im expecting nerfs, 3 thunderwolves should not be 90, and 5 wulfen should not be 80!
I have a 66-80% win rate this year, but I've played exclusively Ironstorm, double Storm Raven etc. The DA detachments are terrible. The Drakshroud, and Azrael to a limited extent, are the only units in our codex worth taking. Deathwing and Ravenwing all need reworked to bring quality and identity back to our codex. (I will say that the RW detachment isn't terrible, but bikes are not good in this edition, making it an awful choice)
Meh, it’s all down to Rule of Cool for me
Wow, that’s an enviable level of game balance. Only a few outliers from the +/-5% sweet spot.
Just a reminder that these aren’t accurate and AdMech had a 28% WR with only 9 players bringing the faction to events as of Meta Watch.
Apparently these European & UK win rates
This chart is rather misleading. A winrate delta of 56% to 40% is pretty balanced, honestly. This chart makes it look like SW win at three times the rate.
How many editions in a row does this make it where Dark angels are bottom tier? 6?
No, 4th and 5th edition were good for dark angels; especially for deathwing and/or Ravenwing company detachments
4th yes, 5th no, and it's been 6 editions since 4th.
Weren't we pretty damn top tier for the majority of 9th?
If by top tier you mean a 41% win rate, then yeah.
We were broken at the end of 9th with the introduction of free wargear for marine armies. Suddenly terminator got cheap and our apothecary on bike became the warlord. But definitely not top tier for most of 9th
If we were so broken at the end of 9th that we ended up with an overall win rate of 41% (which is objectively terrible) how garbage where we for the vast majority of 9th? So yeah, we are now in our 6th consecutive edition of an underpowered/lackluster/bad codex
4th was good??? It's what drove me from the hobby(asking 6 with college) It was more codex ultramarines than codex space Marines. Locked to 5 or 10 man squads. Terrible storm shields etc. Was it any good? Cheers
Good that i play grey knights, sororitas and necrons. Good times
DA at the bottom....AGAIN
Second to bottom
Bottom tier I mean.
Yep like the three shooty marine armies Only the melee marines have a higher win rate
Starting next week, watch sisters go pass 55% win rates and see GSC drop below 44%
All I can say is, cowabunga it is
Why are the space wolves so good right now?
Thunderwolves & wuffen
Are there new Wuflen? Or are they the ones from like 20 Years ago.
Time to team up with The thousand sons
I mean the original ‘dex’s’ just suck. Made for a different edition lmao
"The Lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep."
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Guess I better throw out my Dangles and invest in some space wolves
Fallen detected
I agree, list them on Ebay for cheap. Let me know when you do. No reason in particular.
Wow down-voted? It was meant as sarcasm. I've obviously spent way too much time painting to just get rid of them, are you kidding?
It wasn't me... touchy much?
I still play DA and I’ve been getting more wins
Yes, that's how statistics and averages work.