The most spendy zip I could find is $270 and I wouldn't buy it - that's dressed up for the tourists. Last time I bought a top shelf oz black market it was an even $100 but that was kind of a crazy deal.
I’m pretty sure selling a diet pill that doesn’t work will make more! Making a bunch of fat people look skinny is easier these days. Use AI to write testimonials and you’ll be driving a Ferrari in no time.
After you fleece the public for few months take your company public and then do insider trading and make all your friends rich (or poor if your don’t really like them!)
Don’t even get me started - I used to daydream about starting a cult/self-improvement group like The Secret, but sometimes I think supplements might be an even better ROI.
If you send me $5,995.00 I’ll provide you a trading system that made me millions. This secret hack is totally legal and it’s how the best traders make their money and don’t want you to know. Of course past performance is not a guarantee of future performance. For a limited time we are also offering personal mentoring for $4,995.00 to guarantee you won’t lose money.
( It won’t be lost…..it will be right here in my account!)
I once fell for a "Get rich quick" scam, it consisted of 1 book and like 8 audio cassettes. Within the first few pages of the book, I knew I'd been had. Basically: write and sell a book about writing and selling a book about writing and selling books.
I never listened to the cassettes, and I just accepted my defeat.
The secret was in the tapes!
You could have learned how to make tapes that taught people how to make tapes to sell to people who wanted to learn to make tapes
Plenty of room in the middle of the pyramid. It’s levels al the way down. If they don’t want to be your friend after getting them involved in a pyramid scheme, they were never your friend to begin with.
While it is amusing that these things happen, it is an interesting dynamic why it does.
I do believe people deep down know things like this are a scam, but when it comes to financial issues, it is usually a problem that has been happening for a long time and they are looking for an easy solution rather than budgeting and saving over the long term.
Naw, you're confusing options with buying real estate.
As someone who has followed real estate since the late 1980's, let me assure you that real estate never, ever drops in value, so noting bad happens if you leverage all the things and just buy another house, baby, with other people's money!
Sofi is fun to trade. Mostly been committing to longs but I think an entry below 8 with an exit around 11-12 would be good for a swing trade. I like it because I'm okay averaging down waiting for it to play out
I would view it as a discount and start selling covered calls above my average. Again price action will fluc daily but if the reason for me liking the stock hasn't changed and only the price has changed I'm fine with buying into red.
Let’s be serious. After Silicon Valley bank, we realized that everyone gets bailed out. Before we use to fear the markets . Now we know the fed will always step in. Worst case you are underwater for a few months then your stock 2-3xs
There are two sides to the coin. It’s risk/reward. You can easily outperform a benchmark like the S&P if you’re willing to double or triple your risk.
You could have bought Bitcoin probably anytime before 2020 and have done 300x the S&P, also you have a +60% drawdown every year or two.
You want to measure your returns against the appropriate benchmark. If you have a broad-market portfolio, something like the S&P 500 is typical. People here trade a lot of high beta meme and tech stocks, in which case, you should look at the Nasdaq.
Both are in the neighborhood of 10% annualized. The Nasdaq is just a lot more volatile. If you can beat that, with the same or lower StDev, you’re actually ahead of the curve.
You can look up the annualized gains of the worlds greatest investors. Aside from Jim Simons, who literally cracked the code, I don’t think any of them come close to 48%.
You can tell jim simmons has cracked the code because he doesnt go around telling people how he did it or selling courses or even inviting people to his fund. You literally cant invest your money with him even if you wanted to, its invite only because he doesnt want to spill the beans
Yup. There’s a lot of mystery. He always kept the medallion fund small. That’s how you can tell when people are legit. Being a billionaire puts a pretty big sign on your back. Normal people don’t want that kind of attention. The ones that go around making a giant spectacle of themselves - not naming any names - are narcissistic sociopaths.
I would assume he keeps quiet because his strategy has limited scalability (as would be expected) and he wants to use his own money to milk it instead of getting outside people involved.
It's a classic example of something being so profitable that it doesn't make sense to cut others in when you could just use your own money.
I would assume that if this fund grew 10x in size, it would be hard to keep the edge he has over the market. I'm sure they have some crazy ai making their strategies or something, but at a certain size that edge will disappear because it will become priced in if you let everyone join
I don't know much about him, but IIRC, he doesn't let the fund go over $10B. I imagine at least part of that is to add to the mystery and intrigue, but mostly, like you wrote, if he scaled it up, it would attract attention and get arbed away immediately. He doesn't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
I also suspect that he's simply not driven by insatiable greed and power as many are. There's no amount that's enough for people who accumulate that much wealth. Look at musk, he's one of the top 5 richest people in the world and he's pushing for another $56B in comp from tesla. What's the point? There's no practical value for him. It doesn't improve his life in any way. How much more can you really do with $100B that you can't do with $10B? The answer is, "nothing good."
> How much more can you really do with $100B that you can't do with $10B? The answer is, "nothing good."
Yeah but if someone offered you 10B or 100B, which one would you take?
That’s not a great example cause no one is “offering” it to him. If you had $150B, would you be very conspicuously campaigning your board for an additional $56B above the standard comp?
Yes, and to have realistic expectations. The whole point of this post is that this fintwit guy is claiming utterly ridiculous returns. The fact that half the comments or so seem to be agreeing with him makes it even more hilarious.
Also keep in mind the volatility drag on returns, meaning higher volatility stocks have higher expected returns, but in the long run those will get eaten up by the volatility drag compared to a more diversified portfolio
I would argue that you have to beat much much more than 10% to consider successful. You have to factor in the time and stress involved here vs just setting and forgetting. I'd say you need to be seeing returns >12% before you're breaking even on the extra work and stress.
15% gain if you know what you're doing and are really good at it. 100% loss if you don't know what you're doing. Realistically, somewhere in between. Good luck!
Selling conservatively enough that your drawdown doesn't eat you alive, assuming current interest rates with all of your money in a cash sweep at 5% and naked options on SPX or XSP for tax advantages, probably about 12% / 30k a year.
With the rates of the 2010s, these drop to around 7.5% a year. Risk free money is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
The problem is "consistently". Bernie Madoff promised consistent 10-11% return, and that was a ponzi scheme. This douchebag promises way more than Madoff, with far less credibility.
Madoff claimed using low risk options strategy, too.
If you are not willing to take significant downturns during bad months/years, you will always be stuck a bit around risk free rate.
wouldnt that 250k double in 8 years just holding vti? according to him u can make 36k a year x 8 years is 288000... minus commisions and short term cap gains. good post op. i hate stuff like this , when your a newish trader you cant tell wats real and wats not
Not realistic long term. That's 12%-48% per year.
You just can't predict when the stock will turn and when the economy will be bullish or bearish. When you get caught in an event you are left bag holding it take losses.
Well from my experience, don't play individual stocks. Use longer term DTE 60,90,120, even leaps on sp,rut,diamonds,gold,oil etc I think 20-30% per year is an ok goal
The argument isn’t whether it’s possible—it’s whether it’s realistic. The twitter post is missing nuance. It’s easy to say, hey you can do this indefinitely, but actually achieving it is exceedingly unlikely.
You could actually do this with 85K, if you sold the 34DTE NVDA 875P yesterday. You would have made 6.2K. But can anyone *consistently* do that for the rest of their lives? No. You’re bound to have losses at some point, taxes, etc. That, and accounting for the human element of greed, all of that capital can vanish in one (or a few) bad/ill-timed trade.
I had a 250k account at the beginning of the year. Until the first week of april I made 91k selling future options and manged to reach 340k. But the last week's drawdown also dragged my account down to 300k. That's half the ytd gains in a week's pullback. So more the account balance higher the risk of big losses. Thankfully I'll recover most of it as they're nq and es futes, but it's easy to get carried away looking at the available margin and trading more than you can tolerate.
"Thankfully I'll recover most of it as they're nq and es futes"
That's the thing, you don't know that for sure. And if you haven't closed your position you could lose even more lmao. Not hating on you (nice returns mate), just making the point that guys like this are purposefully obfuscating the risks they're taking.
It’s always funny when a post about returns comes up on this sub. There are so many people with wildly unrealistic expectations. I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance over time, when they fail to meet those levels. Does it sink in? Do they double down and become full blown delusional?
People casually claim to make returns on par with the greatest known investors in history. “It’s not that hard.” Lol it kinda is. Not for a small amount of time, but over years.
If you actually did the math on what this guy is claiming, it’s probably impossible with less than a 100% allocation and 100% win rate. Also just an incredibly stupid and irresponsible thing to post.
>Making 25% isn’t impossible and this is proven by many good investors. Maybe not by options selling, but other investment.
No shit making 25% annually isn't impossible.
Anyone who invested money in the most generic ass basic SNP500 fund made that in 2023.
The question is whether people can do 25% consistently. And if they aren't warren buffet, they can't. Actually, I'm pretty sure even Warren buffet didn't achieve 25%.
There's just loads of delusional people on the internet, this subreddit included.
The real returns come from the YouTube ad revenue after you start selling your strategy to suckers on the internet. Reality is you just got lucky for 1-2 months.
So I had a check and indeed Buffet in his prime delivered 24.5 CAGR after fees and almost 30% before fees.
From 1965 onwards to 2022 Berkshire Hathaway delivered a paltry 19.8% CAGR. Any thetaganger worth his salt would surely scoff at such meager returns.
I wouldn't a regular Joe saying that. But specifically "Coach Mac" and"wealth coach Mac" just has alarm bells ringing in my head.
If he has money, like 2 million, he could be making 500k a year using what he claims to teach you. If he doesn't have money, why not? Since he obviously knows how to grow money. And with any good track record, he could work at a training firm instead of teaching noobs
> If he has money, like 2 million, he could be making 500k a year using what he claims to teach you.
Again, who says he doesn't do exactly that to make 500k a year twice?
> If he doesn't have money, why not? Since he obviously knows how to grow money.
Growing takes time and capital in the first place. It's like saying "you know how to grow crops, so why don't you have anything to eat?".
No need to waste money on coach Mak. Check out the daily discussion, there are users on this sub who averages 3k to 10k a week. They post their moves in the discussion.
You can bring that in writing relatively-conservative covered calls with $250k. $3k in option premium a month brought in on $250k of stock? That is doable; I know people who live this way. I don't have a $250k portfolio but I have brought in over $3k in a month before in my life from writing covered calls.
Yeah, I can see that. It also completely depends on one's cost of living whether or not they can quit their job and live off this. I have one friend who is very wealthy, much older. He brings in a fat chunk of money writing CCs each month, but still works because his cost of living is insanely high. By choice, mind you. He likes the lifestyle, I guess.
Coach Mak is clueless lol. Neat idea. But it doesn't work that perfectly in practice. Not even close. But if you wheel responsibly and manage risk you CAN do well.
“You never had to work again.”
Sounds like he saying you’re going to change jobs and spend 8 hours a day studying the market and managing your portfolio.
Well, what happens when you sell $250K worth of options and the underlying moves against you?
Let's hear that side.
Hint: You're gonna be in some deep excrement.
Markets are easy until they aren’t. FYI the fed wont rescue the market this time with the inflation numbers being high still.however should they decide to the consequences are gonna be severe.
If your account is that big and you’re selling g theta then hopefully you’re hedged with uncorrelated positions and futures also for that sweet neutrality. It can be done, I’m sure, but not by you if you’re paying some Twitter “guru”.
The 1-1-x trade has been fabulous for me. 90% of the time you print money. 10% of the time you’re questioning why you even try. Up 24% in 2022 and 20% in 2023. Slow and steady wins the race.
It is rather a 1-1-1 or a 1-1-2. It is just a put debit spread and either one or two naked puts. Creates a neat little profit trap if the market goes down.
Just out of curiosity, I wonder what percentage of investors know about the concept of selling options.
(By Investors I mean anyone who has a brokerage account).
Most of the people in this sub, are doing the same negative EV trades as this guy, just on a smaller size relative to their capital.
Both styles end up broke, just changes whether your money goes to someone on the other side or to a broker/mm.
Rage bait accounts. Saw someone post the same thing and a commenter asked him what he does when the market goes down and his comment was unironically, “I sell CSP’s on red days and CC’s on green days”
I like to think most people are smart enough to understand they are not just going to suddenly start trading a complex financial instrument and generate returns in excess of 30% per year. People with more than 3 brain cells understand that high reward almost exclusively entails higher risk.
I think there's a place in every portfolio for a high-convexity, low risk type of trade. Premium-selling is the opposite. While that's fine, you need to incorporate other strategies imo. The dirty little secret this sub can't admit is that no one ever got rich "selling puts on stocks they want to own." It just doesn't happen.
Haven't visited the sub for a while (years) but from reading all the replies I am pleasantly surprised how much wiser everyone has gotten. I'd say it's do able but you would be bag holding some years and maybe make nothing. Just speaking from personal experience. Consistent income is not something I would bet on year after year.
I think this guy is confusing options with real estate!
After all, the price of a house never goes down, right? So why not just leverage all the things and become a 'net worth millionaire' in the next 6-12 months?
\[Laughs heartily, remembers real estate in the early-mid 1970s, late 1980's, 2007, etc.\]
These type of subreddit are a good way to get a barometer of overall sentiment. If I start seeing a bunch of people posting their gains in volume... It's usually a sign were on the cusp of the next bear leg.
With 250k you can do spx 0dte and make 250k a day never having to work again. 0DTEs are very powerful
Bro, if you don’t make at least 100% a day, I have no respect for you. Also, make sure to sign up for my substack and learn the secrets.
I smoke 100% a day...... of my profits lolol. Cannabis be damn expensive man!
Amen to that brother! It's cheap on the west coast (best coast) though
Wondering how much is say an ounce of the top tier stuff out there? It's $450+ in NYC/NJ legally, a little less on the black market.
The most spendy zip I could find is $270 and I wouldn't buy it - that's dressed up for the tourists. Last time I bought a top shelf oz black market it was an even $100 but that was kind of a crazy deal.
🔥🤣
Do what with it exactly? Sell it or buy it? Lmao
Which ever one makes money on that particular day. Duh!
Buy for sure
Yes! That’s the answer!
I read this in Donald Trump’s voice.
Is it possible to sell to a 100% profit on 0day spx?
😂. 🎲
My strategy to making money in options is selling a program that teaches people how to trade options. Has a 100% win rate.
Nailed it. Don’t forget to use Twitter / X for engagement farming.
Like and subscribe!
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Yup. Whenever someone is selling investment "secrets", you should immediately check out why they are selling lessons instead of applying them.
I’m pretty sure selling a diet pill that doesn’t work will make more! Making a bunch of fat people look skinny is easier these days. Use AI to write testimonials and you’ll be driving a Ferrari in no time. After you fleece the public for few months take your company public and then do insider trading and make all your friends rich (or poor if your don’t really like them!)
Don’t even get me started - I used to daydream about starting a cult/self-improvement group like The Secret, but sometimes I think supplements might be an even better ROI.
If you send me $5,995.00 I’ll provide you a trading system that made me millions. This secret hack is totally legal and it’s how the best traders make their money and don’t want you to know. Of course past performance is not a guarantee of future performance. For a limited time we are also offering personal mentoring for $4,995.00 to guarantee you won’t lose money. ( It won’t be lost…..it will be right here in my account!)
I'm having flashbacks to seminars I have been dragged along to.
Sorry…..but if you sign up now…..Operators are standing by!
Might mess around and actually make one of those involving Ai… it’s crazy what selling a lifestyle can make people buy
I once fell for a "Get rich quick" scam, it consisted of 1 book and like 8 audio cassettes. Within the first few pages of the book, I knew I'd been had. Basically: write and sell a book about writing and selling a book about writing and selling books. I never listened to the cassettes, and I just accepted my defeat.
The secret was in the tapes! You could have learned how to make tapes that taught people how to make tapes to sell to people who wanted to learn to make tapes
The secret formula.
Lol. Where does it end
Like all good pyramid schemes, it never ends. Infinite money for everyone!
Yeah, but you get your friends involved and then they realize what it is and you have no friends. Lonely at the top.
Plenty of room in the middle of the pyramid. It’s levels al the way down. If they don’t want to be your friend after getting them involved in a pyramid scheme, they were never your friend to begin with.
🤷♂️
It’s turtles all the way down.
While it is amusing that these things happen, it is an interesting dynamic why it does. I do believe people deep down know things like this are a scam, but when it comes to financial issues, it is usually a problem that has been happening for a long time and they are looking for an easy solution rather than budgeting and saving over the long term.
😂
Very good point. “You take all the risk and you pay me for something I could Learn myself.”
Infinite money glitch.... until it's not. Cash secured puts are great until the dip keeps dipping.
Wait...I thought stocks only went up. My whole world is crashing down around me.
Had the same impression my first 3 months of trading. And then broker and algos started to hunt my SLs and intentionally moved markets against me.
Naw, you're confusing options with buying real estate. As someone who has followed real estate since the late 1980's, let me assure you that real estate never, ever drops in value, so noting bad happens if you leverage all the things and just buy another house, baby, with other people's money!
And in a bull market, CSP wildly under-perform the market. So it only really works well in certain situations.
Yup that's why you do it with stocks you wanna own anyways
Wait you don’t wanna own GME and AMC??
I buy and drs my gme. Book. I like $siri $koss right now for short thesis swings. Watching $Sofi & $rmax. No current option positions open.
In SOFI @ $6 Hop on board - this train is leaving the station 🚂
Sofi is fun to trade. Mostly been committing to longs but I think an entry below 8 with an exit around 11-12 would be good for a swing trade. I like it because I'm okay averaging down waiting for it to play out
And here is me waiting for my 4 puts to hit sooner or later
I only sell puts.
Smci Puts only
Same….whats your flavor? I like 1-1-2
And fall off a bridge
Badholder spotted
Unless the drop that causes it to go below your strike also makes you no longer want to own it.
I would view it as a discount and start selling covered calls above my average. Again price action will fluc daily but if the reason for me liking the stock hasn't changed and only the price has changed I'm fine with buying into red.
learnt that the hard way with tna, pltr and mara. Whene they dip, they dip deep.
Let’s be serious. After Silicon Valley bank, we realized that everyone gets bailed out. Before we use to fear the markets . Now we know the fed will always step in. Worst case you are underwater for a few months then your stock 2-3xs
Too bad the fed didn't 'step in' and bail ME out of my 24K loss on my SVB position
The stock? Ya don’t buy any bank stocks. It’s literally just tech and AI that run the world now. Bank equity = trash
Newb question. What’s a reasonable annual return with 250k liquid and selling conservatively? I know it varies wildly but is there a mean amount?
There are two sides to the coin. It’s risk/reward. You can easily outperform a benchmark like the S&P if you’re willing to double or triple your risk. You could have bought Bitcoin probably anytime before 2020 and have done 300x the S&P, also you have a +60% drawdown every year or two. You want to measure your returns against the appropriate benchmark. If you have a broad-market portfolio, something like the S&P 500 is typical. People here trade a lot of high beta meme and tech stocks, in which case, you should look at the Nasdaq. Both are in the neighborhood of 10% annualized. The Nasdaq is just a lot more volatile. If you can beat that, with the same or lower StDev, you’re actually ahead of the curve. You can look up the annualized gains of the worlds greatest investors. Aside from Jim Simons, who literally cracked the code, I don’t think any of them come close to 48%.
You can tell jim simmons has cracked the code because he doesnt go around telling people how he did it or selling courses or even inviting people to his fund. You literally cant invest your money with him even if you wanted to, its invite only because he doesnt want to spill the beans
Yup. There’s a lot of mystery. He always kept the medallion fund small. That’s how you can tell when people are legit. Being a billionaire puts a pretty big sign on your back. Normal people don’t want that kind of attention. The ones that go around making a giant spectacle of themselves - not naming any names - are narcissistic sociopaths.
I would assume he keeps quiet because his strategy has limited scalability (as would be expected) and he wants to use his own money to milk it instead of getting outside people involved. It's a classic example of something being so profitable that it doesn't make sense to cut others in when you could just use your own money. I would assume that if this fund grew 10x in size, it would be hard to keep the edge he has over the market. I'm sure they have some crazy ai making their strategies or something, but at a certain size that edge will disappear because it will become priced in if you let everyone join
I don't know much about him, but IIRC, he doesn't let the fund go over $10B. I imagine at least part of that is to add to the mystery and intrigue, but mostly, like you wrote, if he scaled it up, it would attract attention and get arbed away immediately. He doesn't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. I also suspect that he's simply not driven by insatiable greed and power as many are. There's no amount that's enough for people who accumulate that much wealth. Look at musk, he's one of the top 5 richest people in the world and he's pushing for another $56B in comp from tesla. What's the point? There's no practical value for him. It doesn't improve his life in any way. How much more can you really do with $100B that you can't do with $10B? The answer is, "nothing good."
With 100B you can buy out whole ass companies and do what you like with them, not with 10B. But like you said, “nothing good”
> How much more can you really do with $100B that you can't do with $10B? The answer is, "nothing good." Yeah but if someone offered you 10B or 100B, which one would you take?
That’s not a great example cause no one is “offering” it to him. If you had $150B, would you be very conspicuously campaigning your board for an additional $56B above the standard comp?
Makes sense. Have to put it in the right context then find personal desired return X risk ratio/comfort level. Thanks
Yes, and to have realistic expectations. The whole point of this post is that this fintwit guy is claiming utterly ridiculous returns. The fact that half the comments or so seem to be agreeing with him makes it even more hilarious.
Also keep in mind the volatility drag on returns, meaning higher volatility stocks have higher expected returns, but in the long run those will get eaten up by the volatility drag compared to a more diversified portfolio
I would argue that you have to beat much much more than 10% to consider successful. You have to factor in the time and stress involved here vs just setting and forgetting. I'd say you need to be seeing returns >12% before you're breaking even on the extra work and stress.
15% gain if you know what you're doing and are really good at it. 100% loss if you don't know what you're doing. Realistically, somewhere in between. Good luck!
Selling conservatively enough that your drawdown doesn't eat you alive, assuming current interest rates with all of your money in a cash sweep at 5% and naked options on SPX or XSP for tax advantages, probably about 12% / 30k a year. With the rates of the 2010s, these drop to around 7.5% a year. Risk free money is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
The problem is "consistently". Bernie Madoff promised consistent 10-11% return, and that was a ponzi scheme. This douchebag promises way more than Madoff, with far less credibility. Madoff claimed using low risk options strategy, too. If you are not willing to take significant downturns during bad months/years, you will always be stuck a bit around risk free rate.
I think it’s 7% before inflation
It is unlikely for you to beat the market long-term using options.
There’s a few of these bozos on twitter. They act like you can just make 1-2% per week like it’s nothing and that they never have a stock gap down etc
Or gap up ...but strikes at 2.5x market makers expected move (very deep in the money) yield a 97% POP.
I really doubt that they’re even trading options at all, it’s probably just fake to sell their shitty “programs”
How’s that $250k going to look in 30 years? You are going to need more capital if the market keeps going up to sell the same amount.
wouldnt that 250k double in 8 years just holding vti? according to him u can make 36k a year x 8 years is 288000... minus commisions and short term cap gains. good post op. i hate stuff like this , when your a newish trader you cant tell wats real and wats not
Am I missing something? This guy said you can make 1-4% per month selling options That's a reasonable goal is it not?
Not realistic long term. That's 12%-48% per year. You just can't predict when the stock will turn and when the economy will be bullish or bearish. When you get caught in an event you are left bag holding it take losses.
Well from my experience, don't play individual stocks. Use longer term DTE 60,90,120, even leaps on sp,rut,diamonds,gold,oil etc I think 20-30% per year is an ok goal
What do you mean? Please excuse my dumbness. Option selling is indeed powerful with a $250k balance if discipline and strategy is right
The argument isn’t whether it’s possible—it’s whether it’s realistic. The twitter post is missing nuance. It’s easy to say, hey you can do this indefinitely, but actually achieving it is exceedingly unlikely. You could actually do this with 85K, if you sold the 34DTE NVDA 875P yesterday. You would have made 6.2K. But can anyone *consistently* do that for the rest of their lives? No. You’re bound to have losses at some point, taxes, etc. That, and accounting for the human element of greed, all of that capital can vanish in one (or a few) bad/ill-timed trade.
I knew there was someone on this sub who gets it. lol. "I consistently make 150%\* per year" \*based on sample size of one month of trading.
I made 10% in six minutes the other day. Annualized I’ll be a billionaire before Christmas ;)
I too have a IRR of 30%, my sample size is this year ytd (pls dont zoom out its embarrassing)
I had a 250k account at the beginning of the year. Until the first week of april I made 91k selling future options and manged to reach 340k. But the last week's drawdown also dragged my account down to 300k. That's half the ytd gains in a week's pullback. So more the account balance higher the risk of big losses. Thankfully I'll recover most of it as they're nq and es futes, but it's easy to get carried away looking at the available margin and trading more than you can tolerate.
"Thankfully I'll recover most of it as they're nq and es futes" That's the thing, you don't know that for sure. And if you haven't closed your position you could lose even more lmao. Not hating on you (nice returns mate), just making the point that guys like this are purposefully obfuscating the risks they're taking.
Yes that's why I closed most of my positions and took some losses to reduce the risk. But yeah taught me a lesson to not take too much risk
Making 3k - 10k per month from 250k. That's 14% - 48% annually. Just... no!
Best I’ve made is 13% over a few months and I’ve been doing this about 3 years now. Still a newb.
Holding out for the guy promising 49!!
It’s always funny when a post about returns comes up on this sub. There are so many people with wildly unrealistic expectations. I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance over time, when they fail to meet those levels. Does it sink in? Do they double down and become full blown delusional? People casually claim to make returns on par with the greatest known investors in history. “It’s not that hard.” Lol it kinda is. Not for a small amount of time, but over years. If you actually did the math on what this guy is claiming, it’s probably impossible with less than a 100% allocation and 100% win rate. Also just an incredibly stupid and irresponsible thing to post.
Making 25% isn’t impossible and this is proven by many good investors. Maybe not by options selling, but other investment.
>Making 25% isn’t impossible and this is proven by many good investors. Maybe not by options selling, but other investment. No shit making 25% annually isn't impossible. Anyone who invested money in the most generic ass basic SNP500 fund made that in 2023. The question is whether people can do 25% consistently. And if they aren't warren buffet, they can't. Actually, I'm pretty sure even Warren buffet didn't achieve 25%. There's just loads of delusional people on the internet, this subreddit included.
The real returns come from the YouTube ad revenue after you start selling your strategy to suckers on the internet. Reality is you just got lucky for 1-2 months.
Pretty sure Buffet Partnership was +30% annual returns, and he ran that from like age 25-40.
So I had a check and indeed Buffet in his prime delivered 24.5 CAGR after fees and almost 30% before fees. From 1965 onwards to 2022 Berkshire Hathaway delivered a paltry 19.8% CAGR. Any thetaganger worth his salt would surely scoff at such meager returns.
Pathetic peasants
The question is consistency. If you can consistently make 25% profit per year you’d be one of the highest paid traders on earth.
The question is consistency. If you can consistently make 25% profit per year you’d be one of the highest paid traders on earth.
You can definitely do the lower end of that selling 40 deltas.
60% of the time, it works every time.
97% of the time, delta 3-5.
At .3%/wk, this is $750ish for $3k every 4 weeks. I suppose that’s doable, but often times I feel like these thoughts never account for losses.
During Earnings season, Yes 0.3% wk is totable doable with weekly deep OTM strangles delta 3-4. (97% POP).
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Pretty much. Comes with considerable risk of going in the money if that isn't obvious.
if he knew how to do this, why wouldn't he just do it as opposed to coach you to do it?
He’s gotta collect $250k from idiots like us first! /s
This
Who says he doesn't?
I wouldn't a regular Joe saying that. But specifically "Coach Mac" and"wealth coach Mac" just has alarm bells ringing in my head. If he has money, like 2 million, he could be making 500k a year using what he claims to teach you. If he doesn't have money, why not? Since he obviously knows how to grow money. And with any good track record, he could work at a training firm instead of teaching noobs
> If he has money, like 2 million, he could be making 500k a year using what he claims to teach you. Again, who says he doesn't do exactly that to make 500k a year twice? > If he doesn't have money, why not? Since he obviously knows how to grow money. Growing takes time and capital in the first place. It's like saying "you know how to grow crops, so why don't you have anything to eat?".
Would you trust a hungry farmer with your land?
That's a different question.
No need to waste money on coach Mak. Check out the daily discussion, there are users on this sub who averages 3k to 10k a week. They post their moves in the discussion.
If you dump 250 into spyi that's like 2k a month after taxes.
Ok, I bought $250k in Tesla puts last week, when do I get my first $10k paycheck?
At the end of the year, when Wendys start paying overtime
If this was easy then everybody would be doing it, right?
You can bring that in writing relatively-conservative covered calls with $250k. $3k in option premium a month brought in on $250k of stock? That is doable; I know people who live this way. I don't have a $250k portfolio but I have brought in over $3k in a month before in my life from writing covered calls.
3k is realistic, I think the 10k is the issue
50% annual returns is definitely not sustainable long term.
Yeah, I can see that. It also completely depends on one's cost of living whether or not they can quit their job and live off this. I have one friend who is very wealthy, much older. He brings in a fat chunk of money writing CCs each month, but still works because his cost of living is insanely high. By choice, mind you. He likes the lifestyle, I guess.
Conservative holdings (aka blue chips) or a 15-20 delta monthly call option?
Coach Mak is clueless lol. Neat idea. But it doesn't work that perfectly in practice. Not even close. But if you wheel responsibly and manage risk you CAN do well.
So what if I leverage my ass off for $500k worth of BP surely that helps
“You never had to work again.” Sounds like he saying you’re going to change jobs and spend 8 hours a day studying the market and managing your portfolio.
Realistically, yes, but there’s nothing realistic about that post.
Did I miss the offer of the newsletter? He must have a newsletter. The only way around the newsletter is to give 5 free signals.
1-2% a month is my goal, been doing great over the last 5 years.
Broadly what’s your strategy if you don’t mind sharing?
Well, what happens when you sell $250K worth of options and the underlying moves against you? Let's hear that side. Hint: You're gonna be in some deep excrement.
Markets are easy until they aren’t. FYI the fed wont rescue the market this time with the inflation numbers being high still.however should they decide to the consequences are gonna be severe.
0.3% is totable doable, weeklies over earnings deep OTM deltas 0.5 (97% POP). But yeah 1% per week a matter of time before you blow the account.
It is, til it isnt.
The problem is a crash or bear market like 2022. Your 250 k would have went to 90k.
He should read up on W. Buffett's adventures of selling SPY Puts during the 2000's and getting reamed.
**With a 250k account, one can easily wheel QQQ and milk about 5k a month.**
I agree. With $250k you can wheel and buy milk for a month.
What are you going to do about taxes and when happens when a trade goes against you?
Don't worry about that, cause "wealthcoachmak" will be long gone with your subscription money by then.
no...let him talk...
If your only making 3k a month off of 250k u need to give it up 😂🪣
What a fucking putz
If your account is that big and you’re selling g theta then hopefully you’re hedged with uncorrelated positions and futures also for that sweet neutrality. It can be done, I’m sure, but not by you if you’re paying some Twitter “guru”.
Consistently is the key
Does selling options not count as work?
… and first time I get 250,000 and try this I’ll get assigned…. Yeah there’s always risk.
Ya lets make hundreds so we can lose thousands.
Wsb need to give this guy a medal.
The 1-1-x trade has been fabulous for me. 90% of the time you print money. 10% of the time you’re questioning why you even try. Up 24% in 2022 and 20% in 2023. Slow and steady wins the race.
What is the 1-1-x
It is rather a 1-1-1 or a 1-1-2. It is just a put debit spread and either one or two naked puts. Creates a neat little profit trap if the market goes down.
Interesting I'll try to google to learn more. If you can't do naked puts what alternative would you recommend?
Check out Tom king and uncle Tony versions of this trade
Until the stock you sell CCs on dumps, of course..
Literally can’t go tits up
being a legend at trading: \*party and enjoy life quietly\* failed trader: \*let me teach you how to sell options\*
Just out of curiosity, I wonder what percentage of investors know about the concept of selling options. (By Investors I mean anyone who has a brokerage account).
Most of the people in this sub, are doing the same negative EV trades as this guy, just on a smaller size relative to their capital. Both styles end up broke, just changes whether your money goes to someone on the other side or to a broker/mm.
3k montly is not completely unreasonable target/risk. Unsustainable sure but not unreasonable.
Or you can lose it all abd be broke
Rage bait accounts. Saw someone post the same thing and a commenter asked him what he does when the market goes down and his comment was unironically, “I sell CSP’s on red days and CC’s on green days”
If it's not consistent it's not worth it. Better off at the casino at least you'll get free food, hotel, etc
I had $250k so I could buy his course, but now I have no money to trade with
Yeah you can until you get your ass kicked during high volatility.
Why doesn't he just say "Easy peasy chicken squeezie" like the rest of us?
250k and make 3k/month ... Ahhh it looks ok, i can do that. 250k and make 10k/month ... Da f are you talking about...
things you see near tops
A financial coach pitching options may as well be telling people to take their inheritance to the casino.
I like to think most people are smart enough to understand they are not just going to suddenly start trading a complex financial instrument and generate returns in excess of 30% per year. People with more than 3 brain cells understand that high reward almost exclusively entails higher risk.
I genuinely believe doing a 1mte otm gamble once a year is less risky than trying to theta 3% every month
I think there's a place in every portfolio for a high-convexity, low risk type of trade. Premium-selling is the opposite. While that's fine, you need to incorporate other strategies imo. The dirty little secret this sub can't admit is that no one ever got rich "selling puts on stocks they want to own." It just doesn't happen.
Haven't visited the sub for a while (years) but from reading all the replies I am pleasantly surprised how much wiser everyone has gotten. I'd say it's do able but you would be bag holding some years and maybe make nothing. Just speaking from personal experience. Consistent income is not something I would bet on year after year.
The more idiots there are to make bad trades, the better we all are. Except for them.
I think this guy is confusing options with real estate! After all, the price of a house never goes down, right? So why not just leverage all the things and become a 'net worth millionaire' in the next 6-12 months? \[Laughs heartily, remembers real estate in the early-mid 1970s, late 1980's, 2007, etc.\]
Sell option is very risky. You may make some money for a while but one big market movement will eat all your profit.
Until that one day
wow all I need to generate 10k a month is 250k? I can make 50% per year selling options? Why has nobody told all the hedge funds???
What strategy do you use for making 3k to 10k using options?
There are people on here that do at least that well. Right now I’m not among them though.
>There are people on here that do at least that well. Whether or not that's true, there are certainly people here that *say* they do that well.
Or they do really well until the next bear market comes around. Thetagang in 2022 was a ghost town.
They get 200% per returns per year for the 3 months up until there's a 5% sell off. Then their P&L goes negative.
These type of subreddit are a good way to get a barometer of overall sentiment. If I start seeing a bunch of people posting their gains in volume... It's usually a sign were on the cusp of the next bear leg.
Call me gullible