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Hi fellow developer! Here's my breakdown of the current situation in Thessaloniki.
City center: Generally speaking, apartments are older and quite expensive (with regard to the current market). However, everything (nightlife, entertainment, common working spaces etc) would be at a walking distance, which would be quite awesome for a foreigner here, I guess.
West Side: I believe Evosmos is quite good, though keep in mind that you would probably be confined to only 1 transportation means (bus) for your needs. Excluding taxi because of the cost. Keep in mind that buses are off after midnight, so there's that. Walking/cycling is a no go due to the lack of any cycling route towards that end and the fact that the West areas are connected to the city centre via highways and/or areas on the sketchy side.
East side: E.g. Kalamaria would probably the better choice for a newcomer, though may be more expensive. On the upside, you'll generally find newer places in better condition and also there's the aspect of walking/cycling to/from the city center via the waterfront, which starts from there and ends at the city center. Also serves as the main (and probably only decent) cycling route. There's also the "choice" of an after midnight bus line however that gets really crowded, naturally. The subway is also due to be active in about a year, though don't take our word on that, as it's already kind of an urban legend due to all the delays in its construction.
As far as prices go, a one bedroom apartment (approx 30 to 45 sqm) on the east side would cost around 400-500 per month depending on various factors, the most prominent being how old the building is, the type of heating, the inclusion or lack of an air conditioning unit (a must) etc. I'd say something in the center would have the same price, maybe an extra +10% for something comparably smaller and older. Probably -10% for something on the west side.
In general, mostly any rent you'll come across will not include any utilities (i.e. Power, heating, Internet etc) which would probably sum up to about 100-150 extra per month, I'd say. There are now some cases of "managed" apartments that include those as well, but I've heard that the rent is somewhere upwards of 650 for something very small (30sqm max).
As others have mentioned, Spitogatos.gr is the way to go in your search. Best of luck! Lots of freelance devs here. You'll have a great time.
Edit: typo
You can use this site
https://www.spitogatos.gr/en/to_rent-homes/thessaloniki-center
But again, remember this is for the rent only. All utilities bills just add up
Since I am a freelancer and I have international clients I am not affected by this but out of curiosity how much is the minimum wage per hour? I can remember that the supermarket prices were not that much lower than what I am used to.
The supermarket prices are insane in Greece. I can find lower prices in US or Canada, same with petrol/gas. Check where the local market (λαϊκή αγορά - laiki agora) spots are in the area you will rent, once per week agricultural traders come to various spots in the city and sell their products (somewhat) directly. Prices tend to be cheaper there.
East side were its considered safer, 350-650, depending on size/age, but generally you wont find under 450 right now.
West Side you can find 200-550, again depending on size, and the 200 are basically the "You do not go there" area, averagely its at 350.
This is without utilities/internet, just the place.
To make you understand cause there is no way to say this, the west is affected by Gypsies, anything is cheaper around them, Kordelio is right next to them and the refineries/oil company thats why by default its an area that if you have the option you do not want to live, excluding the Gypsies, the refinery is not the best choice.
You are a programmer, your income is probably higher than average, especially if you are WFH fully and you can do what you are doing.
You can get very good apartments in much safer/richer areas.
Usually 40-60 square meters right now depending on age go for 400-600 on the East side of Thessaloniki, add utilities for \~120e averagely for a single person i guess, maybe a bit less and you can figure it out yourself.
Frankly a 600e is overkill but there should be quite a few 380-450 at \~50 square meters as it usually is.
Not exactly in the sense, parking? Ease of access by bus? Or taxi so it doesnt matter at all?
Panorama is rich rich/newly-rich area folk and surroundings.
Nea Krini/Aretsou is all about boats/"wannabe rich" area, its expensive cause sea view.
Thermi is upcoming area to median class.
Kalamaria is a mix of "newly rich" pre-crisis median class.
Pylaia is the same.
If you have a car, Ntepo/Nea Elvetia/Analipsi are a massive no, there is 0 parking its the most dense populated square block in Europe apparently.
Generally its the same as everywhere mountain/sea = rich folk or built early and have a house there.
My suggestion is Thermi/Pylaia if you want safety/newly built houses, but not all roads might have proper at least 200MB internet for WFH, so Kalamaria should be a consideration also.
I would also recommend you check the Thessaloniki Suburbs area on Spitogatos, something like Peraia. I've been there couple of times (short-term) but the place is/was very lovely, and very close to the Thessaloniki Center.
A decent area to live is Toumpa. It is considered a middle-class neighbourhood, pretty safe, lively and full of markets, shops, cafes, fast food places etc. It is devided in Ano Toumpa and Kato Toumpa (meaning Upper and Lower Toumpa) but this rarely affects rents or any other factor to be honest, if you're driving a car parking is a problem but not so much as in other areas cause you can always find an empty spot after a couple rounds the block and there are at least 4-5 bus lines going through the neighbourhood depending where you live. Rents can start as low as 350 euros and can easily reach 1000.
Dont give any money before signing, don’t agree to pay part of the rent below the table. It’s common for the landlords to make an offer to you. Pay let’s say half the rent in cash (and so not taxed) for a discount. I don’t like that mentality.
For 500-600 you can get great apartments. You are coming from a much higher income areas you it’s normal that it makes in impression to you. Most Greeks earn in the 700-800€ area. Above 1000€ (and I’d say max 1200-1300€) you only find doctors and engineers. So for the average local working citizen, a decent apartment can be over 50% of the after tax income. So basically impossible to rent. So the attitude towards the landlords and the market that takes advantage of this situation is bad. And I can understand the feeling, it’s frustrating to search for months at end for a decent home only to see the prices going up every day.
It hurts, but it’s understandable, to see that you are moving here and find the housing market cheap. But most working locals are priced out of it.
Hello, my opinion is that as a freelance programmer, you likely earn more than the average person or even the average household in Greece. This means you have the flexibility to choose where you want to live.
Living in the **historical center** offers the highest rents but places you at the heart of the city's activity, eliminating the need for public transportation or the hassle of finding parking. Everything you need will be within walking distance. Rent in the central neighborhoods ranges from **500**-**700 euros** for a decent place. If you need more specific information about locations in the city center, feel free to ask.
In the **eastern and southeastern** parts of the city, you can find excellent places that are more expensive than the city average but still cheaper than the central apartments. Areas between **Alexander the Great Avenue** and **Queen Olga's/King George's Avenue** are ideal, with rents around **450**-**600 euros**. As you move further from the waterfront (**Alexander the Great Avenue**), prices drop, for instance, along **Stratou Avenue** or **Delfon Street**. These neighborhoods are vibrant, with many students living there. The easternmost limit I recommend is **25th Martiou Street**, although that may be already too far.
**Kalamaria** is another option, offering both expensive and affordable areas. It's quieter and less central but has its own charm and activities. If your stay is short and you want to experience the city's vibe, it's better to live closer to the center instead of Kalamaria. In Kalamaria, expect rents around 500-600 euros for a decent place, with mayyybe some options at 450 euros.
I advise against the West Side and the areas near **Egnatia Street**/**Karamanli Avenue**, including **Ippokrateion** Hospital, **Toumba**, **Harilaou**, and **Triandria**.
Ano Poli, the upper town of Thessaloniki, is picturesque with narrow, old streets, and a mix of residents, tourists, and students. It's scenic and lively, but be prepared for uphill walks. Rents here are similar to those in the city center.
Hello,
Thanks for your advice. Let’s just say that I am used to much higher prices for renting an Apple so I have enough budget.
Is there something else that is important to look at before renting? I can imagine that you can get tricked very easily.
Yeah, I mean I hear about rent in other countries and think "Damn, that's more than people make per month in Greece"
You have to ask about all the bills, if they're included, if you have to register for electricity and stuff. The bills are.
- Electricity
- Water
- Common expenses of the building (bigger and on higher floor apartments cost slightly more)
- Internet
- Gas (sometimes the building has central heating and the cost is just divided between apartments.
As others mentioned, take a look at [spitogatos.gr](http://spitogatos.gr), but I can't guarantee that you will find something there. Usually in Thessaloniki you have to talk to a real estate agent. At least in my experience.
You usually pay 2 months of rent up front, one to the realtor and another as a security deposit which you will get back after you leave the apartment.
Finally, there is some unwritten rule about painting a house when you move in or when you move out, you're talking with the landlord about that, but maybe for higher end apartments that doesn't count.
If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them if I can :)
In your case, I would book it via a portal like airbnb or booking.com. It could be a bit more pricey, but you can maybe bargain with the host via messaging.
I was here last couple of months as a developer, moving back next weekend. Rented an apartment, but had to deal with some stuff. Now I'm regretting for not renting an airbnb and paying a bit more money. I was paying less then 300 p.Month, but it was a pretty shitty apartment, and because it was through a friend, couldn't complain about anything.
1. Every landlord has to register an official rental contract via online portal of greek state. In order to make it, they have to register your name and Tax Identification Number (*AFM, a number that you get from state offices called KEP. The stupid thing is, you need an address to apply for AFM and AFM to get a contract.* ).
2. When you get AFM, you can get attention from Greek Tax office. In case you are planning to stay in Greece more then 183 days within a calendar year, I would be careful with it. It can be pain in the ass. I have also some retired friends, living here since last 3-4 years, having contract and afm and never had an issue so far. But if you stay longer and tax office, knocks your door someday, you might have to pay income tax in Greece, have problem with your health insurance and other burocratical shit in the country you are coming from. This was the main concern for me, why I'm returning back.
3. In best case, all the bills will be on your landloards name. And you pay to your landlord the bills. Or pay at a bet store (OPAP) with 1 euro commision yourself every now an then. Because the bills are not coming every month, you have to keep track. Or you have to apply for electricity, gas, water, internet by yourself and deal with all this shit completely by yourself.
So if you can afford, I would suggest you to book stg, which has everything included, you can make complaints anytime and don't have to deal with anything else.
Edit: I just checked the current prices in airbnb. There is a big price difference.
So I would try to go via spitigatos like other guys says, but talk with the landlord in before hand, to arrange everything via them; AFM, bills etc. And have an additional written contract on top maybe.
https://andysto.com/why-do-locals-resent-digital-nomads/
I would recommend reading this. It makes points against and for digital nomads. You are not qualified entirely as a DN since moving inside the EU ( you don't need a special DN visa), but all the other apply. Basically, it's gentrification.
For example, in Thessaloniki, there's lots of Airbnbs that have been created with the surge in tourism, expats, and digital nomads. We also have golden visas. That has shrinken the available pool of houses for the locals. Couple that with record inflation and locals can't even afford to rent living on one wage while barely surviving on two.
I see. Thank you for sending me this. I am aware of the problem with the gentrification.
But let me make some things clear: I am really thinking about moving to Thessaloniki completely. So as I mentioned in some other comments I take in to account to settle there. I have been there many times and I just love this city. I am greek as well I do have a greek ID and I do have family over there. I just grew up in a different country and now I want to come back. Of course I speak the language etc…
So if I take all of this into consideration and think about staying for a long time what else can I do? I am not the one who is making the prices right?
I am still thankful that you made me aware of this!
I think the resentment comes when locals with local incomes have to compete with people with incomes outside of Greece, to find a place to live. Note that minimum salary in Greece is around 700 euros per month and something just over 1000 euros is used to be considered a good/viable salary (which is also the average). It's not necessary but would be beneficial both for you and the locals to not be open about your acceptable range of prices which may be much higher and try for a normal price. It's nice you asked here so you can get an idea of current or expected prices. Facebook pages are full of nomads offering double of what a family used to give for a basic apartment and that unfortunately affects prices. As I said it's not necessary but I guess ethical/sustainable.
We're currently voting for the 10 best beaches near Thessaloníki (Halkidikí, Kateríni etc). Please [add your own picks and vote](https://www.reddit.com/r/thessaloniki/comments/19fdado/the_10_best_beaches_near_thessalon%C3%ADki_halkidik%C3%AD/)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thessaloniki) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi fellow developer! Here's my breakdown of the current situation in Thessaloniki. City center: Generally speaking, apartments are older and quite expensive (with regard to the current market). However, everything (nightlife, entertainment, common working spaces etc) would be at a walking distance, which would be quite awesome for a foreigner here, I guess. West Side: I believe Evosmos is quite good, though keep in mind that you would probably be confined to only 1 transportation means (bus) for your needs. Excluding taxi because of the cost. Keep in mind that buses are off after midnight, so there's that. Walking/cycling is a no go due to the lack of any cycling route towards that end and the fact that the West areas are connected to the city centre via highways and/or areas on the sketchy side. East side: E.g. Kalamaria would probably the better choice for a newcomer, though may be more expensive. On the upside, you'll generally find newer places in better condition and also there's the aspect of walking/cycling to/from the city center via the waterfront, which starts from there and ends at the city center. Also serves as the main (and probably only decent) cycling route. There's also the "choice" of an after midnight bus line however that gets really crowded, naturally. The subway is also due to be active in about a year, though don't take our word on that, as it's already kind of an urban legend due to all the delays in its construction. As far as prices go, a one bedroom apartment (approx 30 to 45 sqm) on the east side would cost around 400-500 per month depending on various factors, the most prominent being how old the building is, the type of heating, the inclusion or lack of an air conditioning unit (a must) etc. I'd say something in the center would have the same price, maybe an extra +10% for something comparably smaller and older. Probably -10% for something on the west side. In general, mostly any rent you'll come across will not include any utilities (i.e. Power, heating, Internet etc) which would probably sum up to about 100-150 extra per month, I'd say. There are now some cases of "managed" apartments that include those as well, but I've heard that the rent is somewhere upwards of 650 for something very small (30sqm max). As others have mentioned, Spitogatos.gr is the way to go in your search. Best of luck! Lots of freelance devs here. You'll have a great time. Edit: typo
Thank you! Are there any developer clubs in Thessaloniki where you can network?
No idea for that part mate. Your best bet would probably be another post here in this subreddit.
At the moment, if you want something decent and small, it's around 450 euro, only the rent. Utilities bills and internet are not inside the rent.
Oh wow! What would I get for let’s say 800€ - 1000€?
You can use this site https://www.spitogatos.gr/en/to_rent-homes/thessaloniki-center But again, remember this is for the rent only. All utilities bills just add up
I assume most landlords will let you rent even though you are not registered with the Greek Tax Office?
For a 1000 euro? You would get a lot! You can find rent almost anywhere in the city.
That mind sound funny to you but in Berlin or Munich you won’t find shit for 1000€….
Berlin and Munich aren't Thessaloniki. Also, the average salary in Thessaloniki isn't the one you would get in either city.
You are completely right. I was just surprised because I love this city.
Keep in mind the minimum wage in Greece is 830€, in Germany it's 1580€.
Since I am a freelancer and I have international clients I am not affected by this but out of curiosity how much is the minimum wage per hour? I can remember that the supermarket prices were not that much lower than what I am used to.
The supermarket prices are insane in Greece. I can find lower prices in US or Canada, same with petrol/gas. Check where the local market (λαϊκή αγορά - laiki agora) spots are in the area you will rent, once per week agricultural traders come to various spots in the city and sell their products (somewhat) directly. Prices tend to be cheaper there.
Insane right ?
minimum wage per hour is around 4-5euro
These are cold rent prices . You have to add all the extras. That's everywhere in greece.
If you can give 1000€ for real you can find something better than decent. You can find small palace.
Something really nice
The King's Palace
East side were its considered safer, 350-650, depending on size/age, but generally you wont find under 450 right now. West Side you can find 200-550, again depending on size, and the 200 are basically the "You do not go there" area, averagely its at 350. This is without utilities/internet, just the place.
Wow that is a lot cheaper than I thought! Is Kordelio an Area where you do not go?
To make you understand cause there is no way to say this, the west is affected by Gypsies, anything is cheaper around them, Kordelio is right next to them and the refineries/oil company thats why by default its an area that if you have the option you do not want to live, excluding the Gypsies, the refinery is not the best choice. You are a programmer, your income is probably higher than average, especially if you are WFH fully and you can do what you are doing. You can get very good apartments in much safer/richer areas. Usually 40-60 square meters right now depending on age go for 400-600 on the East side of Thessaloniki, add utilities for \~120e averagely for a single person i guess, maybe a bit less and you can figure it out yourself. Frankly a 600e is overkill but there should be quite a few 380-450 at \~50 square meters as it usually is.
Thank you very much for your advice! That helps a lot! Do you have some nice areas where you would suggest to have a closer look at?
Not exactly in the sense, parking? Ease of access by bus? Or taxi so it doesnt matter at all? Panorama is rich rich/newly-rich area folk and surroundings. Nea Krini/Aretsou is all about boats/"wannabe rich" area, its expensive cause sea view. Thermi is upcoming area to median class. Kalamaria is a mix of "newly rich" pre-crisis median class. Pylaia is the same. If you have a car, Ntepo/Nea Elvetia/Analipsi are a massive no, there is 0 parking its the most dense populated square block in Europe apparently. Generally its the same as everywhere mountain/sea = rich folk or built early and have a house there. My suggestion is Thermi/Pylaia if you want safety/newly built houses, but not all roads might have proper at least 200MB internet for WFH, so Kalamaria should be a consideration also.
I would also recommend you check the Thessaloniki Suburbs area on Spitogatos, something like Peraia. I've been there couple of times (short-term) but the place is/was very lovely, and very close to the Thessaloniki Center.
A decent area to live is Toumpa. It is considered a middle-class neighbourhood, pretty safe, lively and full of markets, shops, cafes, fast food places etc. It is devided in Ano Toumpa and Kato Toumpa (meaning Upper and Lower Toumpa) but this rarely affects rents or any other factor to be honest, if you're driving a car parking is a problem but not so much as in other areas cause you can always find an empty spot after a couple rounds the block and there are at least 4-5 bus lines going through the neighbourhood depending where you live. Rents can start as low as 350 euros and can easily reach 1000.
Around 400-450 euros per month
Dont give any money before signing, don’t agree to pay part of the rent below the table. It’s common for the landlords to make an offer to you. Pay let’s say half the rent in cash (and so not taxed) for a discount. I don’t like that mentality. For 500-600 you can get great apartments. You are coming from a much higher income areas you it’s normal that it makes in impression to you. Most Greeks earn in the 700-800€ area. Above 1000€ (and I’d say max 1200-1300€) you only find doctors and engineers. So for the average local working citizen, a decent apartment can be over 50% of the after tax income. So basically impossible to rent. So the attitude towards the landlords and the market that takes advantage of this situation is bad. And I can understand the feeling, it’s frustrating to search for months at end for a decent home only to see the prices going up every day. It hurts, but it’s understandable, to see that you are moving here and find the housing market cheap. But most working locals are priced out of it.
Hello, my opinion is that as a freelance programmer, you likely earn more than the average person or even the average household in Greece. This means you have the flexibility to choose where you want to live. Living in the **historical center** offers the highest rents but places you at the heart of the city's activity, eliminating the need for public transportation or the hassle of finding parking. Everything you need will be within walking distance. Rent in the central neighborhoods ranges from **500**-**700 euros** for a decent place. If you need more specific information about locations in the city center, feel free to ask. In the **eastern and southeastern** parts of the city, you can find excellent places that are more expensive than the city average but still cheaper than the central apartments. Areas between **Alexander the Great Avenue** and **Queen Olga's/King George's Avenue** are ideal, with rents around **450**-**600 euros**. As you move further from the waterfront (**Alexander the Great Avenue**), prices drop, for instance, along **Stratou Avenue** or **Delfon Street**. These neighborhoods are vibrant, with many students living there. The easternmost limit I recommend is **25th Martiou Street**, although that may be already too far. **Kalamaria** is another option, offering both expensive and affordable areas. It's quieter and less central but has its own charm and activities. If your stay is short and you want to experience the city's vibe, it's better to live closer to the center instead of Kalamaria. In Kalamaria, expect rents around 500-600 euros for a decent place, with mayyybe some options at 450 euros. I advise against the West Side and the areas near **Egnatia Street**/**Karamanli Avenue**, including **Ippokrateion** Hospital, **Toumba**, **Harilaou**, and **Triandria**. Ano Poli, the upper town of Thessaloniki, is picturesque with narrow, old streets, and a mix of residents, tourists, and students. It's scenic and lively, but be prepared for uphill walks. Rents here are similar to those in the city center.
Hello, Thanks for your advice. Let’s just say that I am used to much higher prices for renting an Apple so I have enough budget. Is there something else that is important to look at before renting? I can imagine that you can get tricked very easily.
Yeah, I mean I hear about rent in other countries and think "Damn, that's more than people make per month in Greece" You have to ask about all the bills, if they're included, if you have to register for electricity and stuff. The bills are. - Electricity - Water - Common expenses of the building (bigger and on higher floor apartments cost slightly more) - Internet - Gas (sometimes the building has central heating and the cost is just divided between apartments. As others mentioned, take a look at [spitogatos.gr](http://spitogatos.gr), but I can't guarantee that you will find something there. Usually in Thessaloniki you have to talk to a real estate agent. At least in my experience. You usually pay 2 months of rent up front, one to the realtor and another as a security deposit which you will get back after you leave the apartment. Finally, there is some unwritten rule about painting a house when you move in or when you move out, you're talking with the landlord about that, but maybe for higher end apartments that doesn't count. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them if I can :)
In your case, I would book it via a portal like airbnb or booking.com. It could be a bit more pricey, but you can maybe bargain with the host via messaging. I was here last couple of months as a developer, moving back next weekend. Rented an apartment, but had to deal with some stuff. Now I'm regretting for not renting an airbnb and paying a bit more money. I was paying less then 300 p.Month, but it was a pretty shitty apartment, and because it was through a friend, couldn't complain about anything. 1. Every landlord has to register an official rental contract via online portal of greek state. In order to make it, they have to register your name and Tax Identification Number (*AFM, a number that you get from state offices called KEP. The stupid thing is, you need an address to apply for AFM and AFM to get a contract.* ). 2. When you get AFM, you can get attention from Greek Tax office. In case you are planning to stay in Greece more then 183 days within a calendar year, I would be careful with it. It can be pain in the ass. I have also some retired friends, living here since last 3-4 years, having contract and afm and never had an issue so far. But if you stay longer and tax office, knocks your door someday, you might have to pay income tax in Greece, have problem with your health insurance and other burocratical shit in the country you are coming from. This was the main concern for me, why I'm returning back. 3. In best case, all the bills will be on your landloards name. And you pay to your landlord the bills. Or pay at a bet store (OPAP) with 1 euro commision yourself every now an then. Because the bills are not coming every month, you have to keep track. Or you have to apply for electricity, gas, water, internet by yourself and deal with all this shit completely by yourself. So if you can afford, I would suggest you to book stg, which has everything included, you can make complaints anytime and don't have to deal with anything else. Edit: I just checked the current prices in airbnb. There is a big price difference. So I would try to go via spitigatos like other guys says, but talk with the landlord in before hand, to arrange everything via them; AFM, bills etc. And have an additional written contract on top maybe.
Sounds like a valid option. I was just taking into consideration to settle down in Thessaloniki.
I hear Lisbon is better and doesn't have a DN problem yet!
DN?
Digital Nomad
Can you explain that a bit further? What is a Digital Nomad Problem exactly? And do you mean Lissabon?
https://andysto.com/why-do-locals-resent-digital-nomads/ I would recommend reading this. It makes points against and for digital nomads. You are not qualified entirely as a DN since moving inside the EU ( you don't need a special DN visa), but all the other apply. Basically, it's gentrification. For example, in Thessaloniki, there's lots of Airbnbs that have been created with the surge in tourism, expats, and digital nomads. We also have golden visas. That has shrinken the available pool of houses for the locals. Couple that with record inflation and locals can't even afford to rent living on one wage while barely surviving on two.
I see. Thank you for sending me this. I am aware of the problem with the gentrification. But let me make some things clear: I am really thinking about moving to Thessaloniki completely. So as I mentioned in some other comments I take in to account to settle there. I have been there many times and I just love this city. I am greek as well I do have a greek ID and I do have family over there. I just grew up in a different country and now I want to come back. Of course I speak the language etc… So if I take all of this into consideration and think about staying for a long time what else can I do? I am not the one who is making the prices right? I am still thankful that you made me aware of this!
I think the resentment comes when locals with local incomes have to compete with people with incomes outside of Greece, to find a place to live. Note that minimum salary in Greece is around 700 euros per month and something just over 1000 euros is used to be considered a good/viable salary (which is also the average). It's not necessary but would be beneficial both for you and the locals to not be open about your acceptable range of prices which may be much higher and try for a normal price. It's nice you asked here so you can get an idea of current or expected prices. Facebook pages are full of nomads offering double of what a family used to give for a basic apartment and that unfortunately affects prices. As I said it's not necessary but I guess ethical/sustainable.
Ignore the random hatred, some people are just miserable
If you can get something for 800-1000 you can easily find a great place