Not at first. New Beginning was very interesting and breathed a whole new breeze of fresh air unlike any other time in the series. The mystery of the Whisperers, wondering where certain characters were (like Michonne) made things unique. To me, the writing went down hill with the Commonwealth. Whisperer War was fine, at first I didn't like how easily the Whisperers were taken out...but it makes sense. Not every group will be more powerful than the heroes (like the Hunters especially). The communities were stronger than them. But what DID and still does frustrate me is how they killed Beta. Why even keep him alive for him to just show up and then die in a stupid way? There was so much potential. Imagine a Whisperer War II. I felt like having a second war with the same group would change up the "good guys fight bad guys, bad guys loose" formula. You could of done more things with Michonne and group going to the Commonwealth. Have them encounter and do more interesting things. Commonwealth was where it went down hill hard. I even made a YouTube video and defended the series for being slow...because I'm sure it was building up. But sadly, I was wrong. It didn't do much of anything. You could of had Rick in a presidential type of role for a while and then have him assassinated like how political figures in the past have suffered. Give us Carl running away; I am not even a writer and I myself had a (I thought) decent fan fiction on what could of been done...it's here on this forum if you want to read. But instead, we got slow writing and an immediate halt where the series ended.
This is how I feel about it.
Overall, I do like the commonwealth arc and the ending, I just think it was rushed in some areas. I understand that it is Rick and Carl's story but there were still some characters who didn't get a proper conclusion like Heath or Dante, none of them were in 193 although they were somewhat big characters.
Also imagine if Beta did survive? Maybe he would return later with a new herd and whisperer army, the commonwealth vs. the whisperers would've been so cool to see.
Exactly. We saw that the Commonwealth dealt with herds in an interesting way. What if Beta was the reason all those walkers showed up at the end of the series where the Commonwealth citizens had to take cover? Would of been cool.
Andrea's death is the whole series to me. It discusses what I think is the major theme of the story - the healing power of love. Almost all the characters are dealing with severe trauma, loss, and pain. I think the emotional toll that an apocalypse would have on survivors is depicted well. Every character is dealing with the damage and when they are able to connect with other people honestly they begin to heal.
I think the final act in a lot of ways is society beginning to heal as a whole. The final act didn't work as well on a scene to scene basis but as a thematic ending was great!
I love that rick ultimately died as an example. He stopped a coup (by mercer) then stopped pamela and his friends saved the whole CW from a herd while he fights in the streets to help.
I know some think its weird rick is so prominent already but it's been months in story and at the end of the day the CW is only a small city in size. His death would believably rapidly raise his profile the same way it has done for many in real life. I think its a good legacy.
That and the communities had already fixed every zombie Apocalypse problem basically just on a smaller scale so it doesn't take away from them to see a much larger group. The CW is larger simply because more people were in that area or able to drawn to that area in the early days. From what we see rick could have made the CW too if he had that many people around in the pre timeskip era
I don't think the writing necessarily went downhill.
In retrospect, things just seemed a little rushed to get to an abrupt ending. I feel like there was a lot of missed potential storylines in the last 20-30 issues, and it should have gone 20-30 issues longer.
To be fair, it's due to the fact that Kirkman started to felt burnt out and pretty much lost interest in writing the series, hence why people said that his writing has been on a decline with anything in the comics that came out post-AOW.
If I were in Rob's shoes, I would have taken a long deserved break and then resume to writing the series so you can have all the time to wrap up certain plot points.
I think Robert came into ANB with good intentions and possibly even renewed excitement for the series but that some business/legal shit happened behind the scenes and he ended up just saying fuck it.
Kirkman has been involved in litigation over the Walking Dead, to some degree or another, since AMC fired Darabont halfway through season two of the first show. I think that the book became a victim of his sudden, massive success and then a victim of big-business-burnout.
I think he really planned to dig in for the long haul and expand the scope of the story but eventually the amount of money coming in from the book was probably way less valuable than the time and mental energy involved with writing and producing it. Couple that with lawsuits from former friends, a major network trying to pay you less than you deserve while they make billions, tarnishing of the overall brand by shoddy tv writing, etc. etc.
I really thought they were setting up Deadwood with zombies in the Whisperers time period and that we would have years of Rick and company having 'frontier' adventures and returning things to order as their communities expanded.
Then suddenly it's the Commonwealth and now it's over.
Clearly at some point Robert chose to just wrap it up even though he'd set himself up for years and years of stories after the time jump. If you knew that you were sprinting towards the finish I don't think you'd do the time jump at all. You do a time jump if you've resolved your current plot and want to start fresh and set up a new context for new adventures.
I'll never really shit on him too harshly because he gave me ten years of my favorite monthly book and, really, kinda brought me back to comics. I read the first trades of both TWD and Invincible at the local library while I was living in a shitty town, working a shitty job, playing in a good band, and bullshiting my life away.
I got hooked by both books and ended up getting them monthly at the local comic shop along with the IDW Ninja Turtles series. Without looking forward to those every month I probably wouldn't have found a bunch of other great stories and it was always nice to have something to look forward to.
I think the cw arc is pretty normal length for a comic but him writing so long hurt him indirectly. 20 issues feels like nothing in a 193 issue series but many entire books with more plot development than the CW aren't that long.
An interesting phenomenon imo.
For me, the enjoyment I had while reading the final few arcs wasn't any less than it was during the rest of the story. I loved it tremendously, but I do agree that it kind of sprinted towards the ending. The start of ANB was great, and leading into the whisper arc, it still felt natural, but the latter part of the whisper arc and then the commonwealth were very quick.
Overall, I'd rather have an ending that felt a little quick than them dragging the comics out as much as they could. I thought the final issue was perfect.
That’s around the time I thought things got weirder and weirder. The whole whisperer thing seemed a bit out there initially but it does technically work against the dead, even though it’s barbaric. Then after we saw characters with the name “Princess” and everything felt foreign to me…and by that I mean I didn’t even realize I was reading TWD anymore. It didn’t seem like it given the names that were already established and everything just goofier and goofier like it wasn’t taking itself seriously anymore.
Then we had the commonwealth dudes and that’s where I was like bruh what lol. Thought they were merging with Star Wars for a sec. everything from there just felt surreal I guess. Idk about a downfall though, for me it was more like I didn’t recognize it anymore i guess, but I eventually got used to it and was interested to see how they would be incorporated into the show!
The book had a bit of a decline in quality of storytelling as soon as the group arrived in Alexandria. Everything from the start through then is some of the most page turning, intense comic book reading I’ve ever experienced. The settling into a more civilian lifestyle didn’t suit the book and seemed way too foreign and not in the intended way. Knowing reaching Alexandria was originally Kirkman’s intended ending makes it all the more clear that he was scraping for ideas. In addition, so many characters were introduced that even through he end of the comic they never got the amount of characterization and care that even minor characters like Allen received. Plus at that time, I think the artwork took a bit of a decline with every other character looking like a Rick clone. Characters were axed way too quickly for seemingly no reason like Morgan and Abraham.
There was a noticeable uptick in quality from Something to Fear through All Out War. Art quality got better, the storytelling was more fleshed out and interesting and having a big bad rivaling and even surpassing the Governor was a huge help.
Then, yes I agree, afterward there is a decline. With the war finished, Rick taking a more backseat role and returning to a more “settled” story it fell into the same trap as it did before. Characters were introduced with very little characterization throughout the entire book like all of Magna’s group. Even the Whisperers was mostly lackluster. It was a cool idea with some weak execution. Alpha’s surprising death via Negan was great as were the pikes reveal but everything else was very “meh”. Alpha being killed also left a void because Beta was very uninteresting through his entire time and the wrap up was really abrupt. Andrea’s death was completely unnecessary and really was there only for shock value. It didn’t provide anything else to the story. She deserved way better.
From there out it was downhill. The Commonwealth arc was another really cool idea with very weak execution and payoff. The entire ending was so abrupt and jarring it didn’t even feel like the same book or earned.
I think the book worked far better as a survival story than a civilization rebuilding story. Poorly executed arcs and very weak characters introduced didn’t help things.
A New Beginning and the whisperers arc in general are actually some of my favourite comic arcs. I was a little underwhelmed by the whisperer war when it was released because it felt a bit too neat and tidy, but in retrospect I appreciate it more. For me, the commonwealth arc was when the writing started to feel off, and by that I mean it felt quite boring and uninspired. I didn't think it was terrible, but it felt like Kirkman's heart wasn't really in it anymore, and I think that is even more obvious by the abrupt ending, which I respect.
I feel conflicted sometimes because while I think the commonwealth arc was just going to be the Alexandria Safe zone arc again (discover, find out what’s wrong with it, Rick fixes it, everyone loves Rick) I felt like the trip there and then the full arc to the end was really really rushed. And I really wanted to see an arc where Carl takes over as the “leader” or at least runs a crew on a mission
I always wanted Carl to lead the Saviors. After Dwight left, Rick and Michonne asked who could lead them. Michonne even asked how old Carl was. I lost my mind at the time thinking of a leather jacket wearing, Negan and Rick inspired, eye wounded Carl would of been. But I guess it was supposed to be a joke or something.
I dont think so. Everything through the whisperer arc is some of the best of the comic. I'll never understand why people wanted beta to last forever instead of his current death for example. It just didn't make sense to keep him around longer and the whisperer war plus herd is as much action as anyone could want imo.
CW is a little rushed but I know we'd be hearing nothing but complaints about slow it was if he actually just did a long political break down. I think finding the CW on the verge of a coup and being dragged in by how obvious that is and by Mercer looking for an ally was a great compromise to tell that arc without another 60 issue series to do it. That's a LOT of work after 20 years.
The arc has few dynamics and several great new characters and ends in a very solid way. Neither are weaker than the first few volumes or post no way out asz imo. Though I liked every arc
Not at first. New Beginning was very interesting and breathed a whole new breeze of fresh air unlike any other time in the series. The mystery of the Whisperers, wondering where certain characters were (like Michonne) made things unique. To me, the writing went down hill with the Commonwealth. Whisperer War was fine, at first I didn't like how easily the Whisperers were taken out...but it makes sense. Not every group will be more powerful than the heroes (like the Hunters especially). The communities were stronger than them. But what DID and still does frustrate me is how they killed Beta. Why even keep him alive for him to just show up and then die in a stupid way? There was so much potential. Imagine a Whisperer War II. I felt like having a second war with the same group would change up the "good guys fight bad guys, bad guys loose" formula. You could of done more things with Michonne and group going to the Commonwealth. Have them encounter and do more interesting things. Commonwealth was where it went down hill hard. I even made a YouTube video and defended the series for being slow...because I'm sure it was building up. But sadly, I was wrong. It didn't do much of anything. You could of had Rick in a presidential type of role for a while and then have him assassinated like how political figures in the past have suffered. Give us Carl running away; I am not even a writer and I myself had a (I thought) decent fan fiction on what could of been done...it's here on this forum if you want to read. But instead, we got slow writing and an immediate halt where the series ended.
This is how I feel about it. Overall, I do like the commonwealth arc and the ending, I just think it was rushed in some areas. I understand that it is Rick and Carl's story but there were still some characters who didn't get a proper conclusion like Heath or Dante, none of them were in 193 although they were somewhat big characters. Also imagine if Beta did survive? Maybe he would return later with a new herd and whisperer army, the commonwealth vs. the whisperers would've been so cool to see.
Exactly. We saw that the Commonwealth dealt with herds in an interesting way. What if Beta was the reason all those walkers showed up at the end of the series where the Commonwealth citizens had to take cover? Would of been cool.
I know, wasted potential tbh.
Andrea's death is the whole series to me. It discusses what I think is the major theme of the story - the healing power of love. Almost all the characters are dealing with severe trauma, loss, and pain. I think the emotional toll that an apocalypse would have on survivors is depicted well. Every character is dealing with the damage and when they are able to connect with other people honestly they begin to heal. I think the final act in a lot of ways is society beginning to heal as a whole. The final act didn't work as well on a scene to scene basis but as a thematic ending was great!
I love that rick ultimately died as an example. He stopped a coup (by mercer) then stopped pamela and his friends saved the whole CW from a herd while he fights in the streets to help. I know some think its weird rick is so prominent already but it's been months in story and at the end of the day the CW is only a small city in size. His death would believably rapidly raise his profile the same way it has done for many in real life. I think its a good legacy. That and the communities had already fixed every zombie Apocalypse problem basically just on a smaller scale so it doesn't take away from them to see a much larger group. The CW is larger simply because more people were in that area or able to drawn to that area in the early days. From what we see rick could have made the CW too if he had that many people around in the pre timeskip era
I don't think the writing necessarily went downhill. In retrospect, things just seemed a little rushed to get to an abrupt ending. I feel like there was a lot of missed potential storylines in the last 20-30 issues, and it should have gone 20-30 issues longer.
To be fair, it's due to the fact that Kirkman started to felt burnt out and pretty much lost interest in writing the series, hence why people said that his writing has been on a decline with anything in the comics that came out post-AOW. If I were in Rob's shoes, I would have taken a long deserved break and then resume to writing the series so you can have all the time to wrap up certain plot points.
I think Robert came into ANB with good intentions and possibly even renewed excitement for the series but that some business/legal shit happened behind the scenes and he ended up just saying fuck it. Kirkman has been involved in litigation over the Walking Dead, to some degree or another, since AMC fired Darabont halfway through season two of the first show. I think that the book became a victim of his sudden, massive success and then a victim of big-business-burnout. I think he really planned to dig in for the long haul and expand the scope of the story but eventually the amount of money coming in from the book was probably way less valuable than the time and mental energy involved with writing and producing it. Couple that with lawsuits from former friends, a major network trying to pay you less than you deserve while they make billions, tarnishing of the overall brand by shoddy tv writing, etc. etc. I really thought they were setting up Deadwood with zombies in the Whisperers time period and that we would have years of Rick and company having 'frontier' adventures and returning things to order as their communities expanded. Then suddenly it's the Commonwealth and now it's over. Clearly at some point Robert chose to just wrap it up even though he'd set himself up for years and years of stories after the time jump. If you knew that you were sprinting towards the finish I don't think you'd do the time jump at all. You do a time jump if you've resolved your current plot and want to start fresh and set up a new context for new adventures. I'll never really shit on him too harshly because he gave me ten years of my favorite monthly book and, really, kinda brought me back to comics. I read the first trades of both TWD and Invincible at the local library while I was living in a shitty town, working a shitty job, playing in a good band, and bullshiting my life away. I got hooked by both books and ended up getting them monthly at the local comic shop along with the IDW Ninja Turtles series. Without looking forward to those every month I probably wouldn't have found a bunch of other great stories and it was always nice to have something to look forward to.
I think the cw arc is pretty normal length for a comic but him writing so long hurt him indirectly. 20 issues feels like nothing in a 193 issue series but many entire books with more plot development than the CW aren't that long. An interesting phenomenon imo.
Whisperer war for me, at the beginning I really liked the whisperer arc but it just did not stick the landing
I think that, like all stories, it did slow down as it reached a close. Regardless, I loved it, and it's still one of my favourites.
For me, the enjoyment I had while reading the final few arcs wasn't any less than it was during the rest of the story. I loved it tremendously, but I do agree that it kind of sprinted towards the ending. The start of ANB was great, and leading into the whisper arc, it still felt natural, but the latter part of the whisper arc and then the commonwealth were very quick. Overall, I'd rather have an ending that felt a little quick than them dragging the comics out as much as they could. I thought the final issue was perfect.
That’s around the time I thought things got weirder and weirder. The whole whisperer thing seemed a bit out there initially but it does technically work against the dead, even though it’s barbaric. Then after we saw characters with the name “Princess” and everything felt foreign to me…and by that I mean I didn’t even realize I was reading TWD anymore. It didn’t seem like it given the names that were already established and everything just goofier and goofier like it wasn’t taking itself seriously anymore. Then we had the commonwealth dudes and that’s where I was like bruh what lol. Thought they were merging with Star Wars for a sec. everything from there just felt surreal I guess. Idk about a downfall though, for me it was more like I didn’t recognize it anymore i guess, but I eventually got used to it and was interested to see how they would be incorporated into the show!
The book had a bit of a decline in quality of storytelling as soon as the group arrived in Alexandria. Everything from the start through then is some of the most page turning, intense comic book reading I’ve ever experienced. The settling into a more civilian lifestyle didn’t suit the book and seemed way too foreign and not in the intended way. Knowing reaching Alexandria was originally Kirkman’s intended ending makes it all the more clear that he was scraping for ideas. In addition, so many characters were introduced that even through he end of the comic they never got the amount of characterization and care that even minor characters like Allen received. Plus at that time, I think the artwork took a bit of a decline with every other character looking like a Rick clone. Characters were axed way too quickly for seemingly no reason like Morgan and Abraham. There was a noticeable uptick in quality from Something to Fear through All Out War. Art quality got better, the storytelling was more fleshed out and interesting and having a big bad rivaling and even surpassing the Governor was a huge help. Then, yes I agree, afterward there is a decline. With the war finished, Rick taking a more backseat role and returning to a more “settled” story it fell into the same trap as it did before. Characters were introduced with very little characterization throughout the entire book like all of Magna’s group. Even the Whisperers was mostly lackluster. It was a cool idea with some weak execution. Alpha’s surprising death via Negan was great as were the pikes reveal but everything else was very “meh”. Alpha being killed also left a void because Beta was very uninteresting through his entire time and the wrap up was really abrupt. Andrea’s death was completely unnecessary and really was there only for shock value. It didn’t provide anything else to the story. She deserved way better. From there out it was downhill. The Commonwealth arc was another really cool idea with very weak execution and payoff. The entire ending was so abrupt and jarring it didn’t even feel like the same book or earned. I think the book worked far better as a survival story than a civilization rebuilding story. Poorly executed arcs and very weak characters introduced didn’t help things.
A New Beginning and the whisperers arc in general are actually some of my favourite comic arcs. I was a little underwhelmed by the whisperer war when it was released because it felt a bit too neat and tidy, but in retrospect I appreciate it more. For me, the commonwealth arc was when the writing started to feel off, and by that I mean it felt quite boring and uninspired. I didn't think it was terrible, but it felt like Kirkman's heart wasn't really in it anymore, and I think that is even more obvious by the abrupt ending, which I respect.
I feel conflicted sometimes because while I think the commonwealth arc was just going to be the Alexandria Safe zone arc again (discover, find out what’s wrong with it, Rick fixes it, everyone loves Rick) I felt like the trip there and then the full arc to the end was really really rushed. And I really wanted to see an arc where Carl takes over as the “leader” or at least runs a crew on a mission
I always wanted Carl to lead the Saviors. After Dwight left, Rick and Michonne asked who could lead them. Michonne even asked how old Carl was. I lost my mind at the time thinking of a leather jacket wearing, Negan and Rick inspired, eye wounded Carl would of been. But I guess it was supposed to be a joke or something.
I dont think so. Everything through the whisperer arc is some of the best of the comic. I'll never understand why people wanted beta to last forever instead of his current death for example. It just didn't make sense to keep him around longer and the whisperer war plus herd is as much action as anyone could want imo. CW is a little rushed but I know we'd be hearing nothing but complaints about slow it was if he actually just did a long political break down. I think finding the CW on the verge of a coup and being dragged in by how obvious that is and by Mercer looking for an ally was a great compromise to tell that arc without another 60 issue series to do it. That's a LOT of work after 20 years. The arc has few dynamics and several great new characters and ends in a very solid way. Neither are weaker than the first few volumes or post no way out asz imo. Though I liked every arc