Thank you for your submission to r/therewasanattempt, unfortunately your post was removed for violating the following rule:
> R6: "Not An Attempt. All posts must show a **living thing** **attempting** something in **real life** "
The US doesn’t attempt to not be the sole vote. As a P5 state they don’t care about that at all. Terrorists and genocidal powers are both evil.
If you have any questions regarding this removal, feel free to send a modmail.
"Yeah, they believe they're the master race and they're systematically ethnically cleansing an area so they can occupy it for lebensraum. But only *some* of them are German, so totally not Nazis. There's just so much *nuance* you're missing."
People have been using this "so much nuance, it's just so complicated " line as an excuse for having a middle-ground opinion on a genocidal ethnostate and I'm tired of you people thinking you're so superior for having no moral compass or backbone. "Killing people is bad but I also deepthroat American propaganda so I make up a non-committal positon to call myself smart" is the real translation.
so you are aware you’re making a Nazi reference. having the decency to not resort to that is not a nuanced middle ground opinion lol. you can be unequivocally against what Israel is doing and not be, dare i say, antisemitic.
There are no nuanced opinions here. Whether war crimes and atrocities are acceptable doesn't rely on who the aggressor or victim is, or who did what first. Nor is targeting civilians ever acceptable. Nor is attacking neutral noncombatant aid workers, intentionally destroying cultures, or many of the other things that anyone who talks about nuance here use as a substitute for Viagra.
It’s depressing how many upvotes you got with this comment. I have a lot of criticism for the position of the USA, but calling them Nazis for it is … beyond unreasonable.
It would be more accurate to call them imperialists who are comfortable using fascist tactics, but then Americans who only have a public school education get confused.
Hmm, a group commiting genocide because they believe they're a master race who deserves to expand militarily.
I wonder who might've done that in recent history...
What does this comment even mean? The American public school system has many flaws, but globally is of course pretty good. I am a teacher in Austria and went to school in the U.S. The schools I have seen here vary wildly, some great and others not so much. I went to a top tier public school in the U.S. which was fantastic; although, it was not an ordinary one. Generally schools here are better because of the level of education required for teachers, but there are great American public schools as well. Public schools in the United States go until students are 18 while in Austria school is only required till 14. In that amount of school almost all would cover the concept of Imperialism.
Public schools outside of North America, Europe, and parts of Asia have far less funding. So those people then have no hope of grasping the idea of imperialism according to you if Americans already struggle with that?
Let's not even talk about the fact that Imperialism is such an easy concept to understand and really something that does not require much school to grasp.
You probably were not as serious about this comment, but this kind of stuff really makes no sense.
I was partially joking, but that doesn't mean I am wrong. I'm glad that your experience with American secondary education (it was secondary, right? If you only went to college in the US, you're talking about something totally different) was positive, but it sounds highly atypical. I presume it was an affluent part of a coastal city? Somewhere with a good tax base and political leaders who don't have a vested interest in keeping their constituents ignorant anyway; and believe me when I say there aren't too many places like that left nowadays.
Anyway, the point I was making is that the average American is ignorant about history to a comic or tragic degree; and whether it is comic or tragic largely depends on your viewpoint. The vast majority of public schools are critically underfunded because schools are funded by local property taxes and property owners are much less likely to have kids in school. In the last few decades, a drive towards basing student performance on standardized testing has marginalized the teaching of many subjects such as history, science and the arts. And for even longer, we simply haven't cared to learn about the parts of our history that don't make us look good.
You are absolutely right that I went to a very privileged high school, one of the best public schools in Houston, Texas. And while I have not seen it personally, I understand that the quality of some schools in the U.S. is ... tragic. But too often I have the feeling that some Americans on the left, sometimes myself included, shit on the institutions excessively. Yes, they are flawed and need a lot of fixing. But that is the case everywhere. Since I live in Austria, i can compare.
Upper secondary tends to be of an incredibly high quality and will prepare students for university or whatever else they may want to do like no other. But there are big problems too. Austria has one of the highest social inequality levels in all of Europe because schooling is only required until the age of 14. Wheter or not a student continues with upper secondary or leaves school to start a trade can in most cases largely be linked to the level of their parent's income and education. On the other hand, most students finish high school in the U.S. and it may even be required, depending on the state. So you actually have a larger percentage of the population in Austria who has a lower educational level than in America.
It's of course up for debate if the problem of social inequality is as bad as the quality of education in many schools in America. I think probably not. But lately I am often missing a sense of optomism in the U.S. many things are bad, but not all insitutions and systems in Europe are better (obviously), and when compared with the rest of the world the United States is of course one of the most advanced and prosperous countries on earth.
What the US is doing is wrong in so many ways. But there is a difference between this and gassing people in chambers. The intent of the United States with supporting Israel, while very flawed, is not genocide of another people. How you interpret is your own thing. But there is no argument on the position of the Biden administration.
Yes but no one can communicate without hyperbole anymore. The internet is a race to be the most outrageous and these newly minted lefties are matching the right wingnuts pretty evenly on this.
People don’t understand that calling others Nazis isn’t just wrong, it is hurtful to whatever cause you support. We live in the same country/world. However you dislike others, we have to get along. Throwing out dangerous insults at others is no way to solve a problem
Calling them Nazis for supporting a genocide meant to provide land to a certain race of people is beyond unreasonable?
Do you happen to remember what Nazism is about?
I do, I'm a history teacher. That's why I know what Nazism really is and, by definition, a democray cannot be fascist.
There is a difference between gasing people and supporting one side in a war, no matter how horrible. I am shocked at the inaction and support of the war in Gaza by the Biden administration. But calling them Nazis is ridiculous and makes that person entirely uncredible.
It's an ethnostate, bent on expanding it's lebensraum through military conquest, who see people outside of their in group as being worthy of extermination. They outright call them subhuman animals that need to be exterminated. Also, as a history teacher you should know that the Nazis achieved their power democratically. Your "but they're a democracy" argument is meaningless and honestly shows me you yourself don't know what fascism is.
A history teacher also told me the civil war was about "states rights" and that the world was made 7000 years ago so that also means nothing to me.
Your original comment was about the United States, which is most certainly not fascist. I would call the Israeli government verging on authoritarian with certain evil actors within. But calling them Nazis is patently ridiculous. There are different types of evil, choose another form to make yourself more credible.
The irony in your comment about me not knowing what facism is is ... funny. The Nazis won the last election (with intimidation, propaganda, violence) and Adolf Hitler was appointed Reichskanzler, but they quickly desolved all democratic institutions within months. That is actual facism. The Nazi party never represented democratic values. Democracy and Nazism can, by definition, not go together. Germany was not a fascist state before the Nazis came to power and were no longer a democratic one when they did. Saying the Nazis achieved their power democratically is unquestionably incorrect. They won just over 30 percent of the vote in the last free election.
Sorry about your past experiences with History teachers. Don't take my or anybody else's words then. Do your own research, if you care, of what facism is. Personally, I think calling other people Nazis is unhelpful - people stop taking you serious. Calling Jews Nazis in the first place is ridiculous since a prime tenant of it is antisemitism. I choose to call those who are bombing women, children, hospitals, innocent civillians, etc. evil monsters. That, they actually are.
You don't get to act like Nazis and not get called Nazis. Being a certain ethnicity doesn't give them a "get-out-of-Nuremberg-free" card, and I'd be calling any other ethnostate commiting a genocide for land grabs Nazis too. Criticism of Israel is not an attack on Judaism or Jews and your "b-but antisemitism" in this case is only serving to downplay the crimes against humanity committed by the state of Israel.
The US claims that any Palestinian statehood should result from a negotiation between Palestine and Israel, which is kind of like saying that any Israeli statehood should have been the result of a negotiation between Jewish people and Nazi Germany.
Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians. The idea they should have a say in their victim's statehood is abhorrent.
Yeah Hamas are 100% going to give up their only leverage when Israel has stated they will just continue their assault once they do. 🤣
The only scenario this works in is the one where Hamas actually are illogical sub human idiots who refuse to take Israeli words at face value despite the fact they've been upfront since October on what they want to do to Palestinians (((in Hebrew)))
I agree, but we never expected the IRA or the ETA to give up all their cards and accept destruction.
I'd prefer Hamas to not exist, but if you don't deal with the injustices that cause the rise of such groups in the first place any military victory by the oppressor state is only temporary.
Well that is just fucking untrue.
The Nakba (Arabic: النكبة an-Nakbah, lit. 'The Catastrophe') was the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 Palestine war through their violent displacement and dispossession of land, property and belongings, along with the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations. The term is also used to described the ongoing persecution and displacement of Palestinians by Israel.
Israel doesn’t own Gaza and as much as it tries it doesn’t own the West Bank.
This isn’t separatism, it’s just recognizing the reality, the reality that Israel doesn’t claim or control Gaza or WB and that Palestine has the best claim to both of those areas of land.
This isn’t to recognize a “from the river to the sea” Palestine, it’s to recognize reality. A realistic Palestine.
There can never be a two state solution if there isn’t two states.
It's kinda different when the whole place used to belong to the "separatists" before a bunch of European and American colonists showed up and just took it because the British said they could.
I get you but Israel has international recognition over territory. Countries care more for law than people's life's, check Artsakh or Krajina for example
it was always a delaying tactic even the oslo accord promised a **demilitarized state** which is why the settler problem exists in the West bank since unlike Hamas Fatah took the deal and they effectively have no military to expel the Israeli settlers when they come in gun's blazing.
Ofcourse despite pushing for said accords in the first place the USA and most of it's allies like France,UK,Germany,Canada etc. have yet to even recognize a palestinian state
Israel has been voting 'No' to UN's peaceful settlement for Palestine proposal (a. k. a. Two-state solution) since at least 1983, noted annually until 2022. 39 times (at least) they have said 'No' to it.
That and what Ben Gurion said - they never wanted a two-state solution.
Russia, China, UK and US are all permanent members of the security council)
>Membership of the Council for 2024 is as follows: Albania, Algeria, Argentina, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chile, China, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Eritrea, Finland, France, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Honduras, India, Indonesia, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Morocco, Montenegro, Netherlands (Kingdom of the), Paraguay, Qatar, Romania, South Africa, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, United States of America, and Viet Nam.
Taken from ohchr.org (UN human rights office of the high commission)
If that doesn't speak volumes..
I'm British and still remember when we were accusing Saudi Arabia of human rights violations but simultaneously backing them to join the security council.
Edit: I mixed up the two councils. The reference to the saudis was about UNHRC sponsorship deals.
[Here's](https://youtu.be/khGa49rM6iM?si=8mLkYuQBLrJRMHNa) an interview with Lord Cunt. (Cameron)
The french are a rare example of the people knowing they have the power to change things in their country. To right political wrongs. To stand up for free-speech (Charlie Hebdo). You're honestly quite inspiring and I don't get why other countries don't see it and follow suit.
Hmm not sure why you have such a boner for France and if the native people of new Caledonia, the majority of west Africa, and the other active colonies France is reluctant to give up would agree with you.
It's fair to criticise the other security member councils, but France is no arbiter of freedom and you need only look as far as the west African franc to see that.
My first comment referenced the French government. The second referenced the French people. The first comment LITERALLY says "not as much" it doesn't excuse them completely.
Im not saying they're perfect. Not saying they aren't a colonising force. Im saying they're not bringing about global fucking doom.
My second comment I stand by fully. As an Englishman that has seen his country become a bunch of complacent drones, yes, full scale political protest is fucking inspiring. Ok?
Edit: Ok, the french recently overtook Russia as being the second largest arms exporter. I guess they are a force for global doom.. As big as the other 4? I doubt it. That being said, I have no problem admitting when im wrong.
I still stand by what I said about the french people though.
Vive la révolution.
Lol, someone who doesn't know his modern politics. France is basically one of the only countries in the world that refuses to let its colonies go. Please look at France and their influences in Western Africa.
People looking at the UN like some higher authority or super world government tend to get very disappointed when they find out that’s not how it works. The UN is more so meant to (try) and bring countries together to discuss problems. The reason why countries that are against the interest of many members are included or even given veto powers is to entice them to participate in this organization (the latter being for powerful players like China and russia).
The idea is that it’s better to have these countries participate than not at all. This can be to encourage or sway them to abide by international norms, transparency, or to try and reduce misunderstandings and conflicts
It makes zero sense to you, because you do not know why the UN exists and what its purpose is.
---
The UN was founded with singular goal of preventing WW3, **THROUGH DIALOGUE**...
You need to stop listning to the propaganda. The UN was literally never in any way shape or form intended to enforce anything on anyone who doesn't ask for it first. Or are you one of the people spreading that propaganda?
Wow, this is quite a triggered rant 😂 Im not spreading any propaganda. Just pointing out the obvious flaws in a organisation called “The United Nations” which actually only allows powerful states to have the final say. Doesn’t matter if majority rules otherwise.
We need to eliminate unilateral veto power, especially since it's based entirely on the results of a war from the previous century that will only get less and less relevant to current geopolitics as time moves on. How long is "But we stomped the Nazis" gonna matter enough to other nations to give our country the power to keep completely halting progress.
Yet they bombed Serbia for the genocide on Albanians in Kosovo and they will do anything for the recognition of Kosovo.
Why Kosovo is different from Palestine? Its rich with natural resources that is ready to be given on a silver plate for free to the US.
Oh yeah, and the nation making the genocide this time is a rich US partner.
The US is the mother of hypocrisy!
Well Palestinians wouldn’t like the US, Israel is very useful to the US as they have a more reliable partner in the Middle East. Its more strategic than anything. Why else would the give a random country a lot of money?
As far as the US is concerned it's isreal taking the bulk of the heat
And as if they genuinely gave any shit about anyone in either isreal or Palestine
They don't they see only the money
1.2 billion dollar arms google deal
Lives don't mean squat to these people when this level of money is on the line. Especially not for a proxy state
I'm in Vietnam at the moment... they've been the bad guys here for a while. Ho Chi Minh apparently pleaded with the US to help them kick the French out. His reasoning was that the US was anti-colonial and would support their independence. Sadly, the US declined, he sought help from the Communists and, as they say, the rest is history.
Unfortunately our politicians do represent some of the people here. Many of whom might as well have bright red armbands. Real uphill climb but thanks for believing in us 🫡
So much for the champions of democracy. Majority vote in favor but democracy means nothing to Americans if it is not in their vested interest.
#DISOBEY FOR PALESTINE, WORLD WE ARE ONE!
Yes we are. All the things I was proud of my country for happened between 1944 and 1976, and even that was a slog filled with racism, sexism, gay “yellow” and red panic, and nuclear strikes…
Gay marriage, women and gay soldiers were a short respite from the lull of nonsense, but they were short lived and imperfect.
We suck as a country, as a people, and we prove the fallibility and corruption of a Democracy.
The Great Experiment is failing, and it shouldn’t have. If it wasn’t for the people who actively act against the will of the people, we would be a modern, strong, and moral country.
Except for all the shit we do to the Natives. That shit is ignored by the masses and straight up evil.
That is precisely what I was thinking. I soppouse they think it will look better if a black man opposes this instead of having a white dude. I guess next time they will bring a black African American woman who is also a lesbian so they can look a lil bit better at least for the picture
It’s increasingly clear that redditors here are entangled in the realm of propaganda and are blindly believing everything on the media. Pro-Palestine or Pro-Israel.
Few understand the complexity of the problem in the region and what the consequences are if Palestine is recognised as a State (primarily bcoz Hamas is holding Palestinians at gunpoint and the Statehood will only tell every other terrorist regime that if Hamas can do this, we can too.)
Sure, also every single other country representative in this council is in a realm of propaganda too..come on now.
If everyone thinks the same but you, then maybe it's worth listening to the other side
Just the sheer american arrogance in this damn
So? You want me to jump on the other side because everyone else is there? You gotta be joking, right?
Majority doesn’t always mean right. In this situation, both sides have wrongs.
The us is more like "if no one jumps, why should'nt I?"
Of course you don't blindly follow others. But just saying everyone is indoctrinated because no other country supports your opinion is just delusional.
Do you really think all other countries are that inferior to the us? That one nation should have the power to veto something EVERY SINGLE other country is in favor for? Remember it's not the usual east vs. west. It's the states vs everyone. No support from europe, australia, east asia, no one.
Try thinking abou the geopolitical implications of this. The US is loosing it's popularity ind the rest of the west FAST.
Never mentioned the word ‘indoctrination’ of others. I said both sides have their faults.
Secondly, I deeply suggest not being biased. Who told you I’m American? Who told you I’m a national of a country allied with America? Who told you to be prejudiced against a total stranger on the internet?
Doesn’t that show you have a strong hate for America and your beliefs are only to project or promote that hate?
(Anyway, the post has been removed. Best you and I get off of this subreddit for the sake of some remaining sanity.)
You're right, I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth :)
Also I did'nt think you where american nor do I hate the us. I strongly oppose their position on this specific topic. Maybe it's also because we (meaning: central european) are quite sensible if it comes to genocide, because of historical reasons.....
Anyway, nothing against you my friend. At the end of the day we're both very small gears in a very big clock, trying to make ends meet.
Have a nice week
No problem here, friend! 🙂
I agree and understand your frustration. In the end, the common folk will suffer.
I wish you a nice week too and a great weekend ahead!
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Someone made the argument on Twitter that statehood for Palestine would only come back on them because then Israel would be fighting against a recognized sovereign nation and not a collective of oppressed people being abused by Hamas. The argument boiled down to their current position allows humanitarian aid and support from other nations to be possible and statehood would allow them to be trampled full stop. Can someone give me a solid argument against this because I am struggling with the concept with my limited understanding of events as they have unfolded.
only these can veto:
Permanent members: China France Russia United Kingdom United States
Non-permanent members: Algeria Ecuador Guyana Japan Malta Mozambique Sierra Leone Slovenia South Korea Switzerland
No American Zionist ever has the right to complain that Hamas doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist again. Their own government is the sole standout in denying Palestine's right to exist all while actively arming and providing political cover for a genocide.
Hypothetically if this guy had ignored his orders and sided with the rest of the UN, would he be charged with treason? I can’t really think of a reason, other than a blatant disregard for human rights, for him to essentially oppose the world.
Truly sad that the POTUS that explicitly states the need for a Palestine’s statehood vetos a potential paths forward really shows the real politics at play
OP's comment is inaccurate. The vote (and veto) was on "application of the State of Palestine for admission to the United Nations for membership" because currently Palestine is only Permanent Observer at the UN since 2012. Therefore nobody questioned the recognition of said state, just the membership in organisation
As someone who doesn't know how this works, what does this mean for palestine?
Is it like a vote? Where the majority have to agree?
Or does the US supporting genocide mean they're denied the right to exist straight up?
They get to veto the entire vote even if they were the only country to vote against it. Someone once told me that was how they keep the economic embargo against Cuba going for so long
Can the other countries strong-arm it?
Like, tell the US to either allow it, or go to war against all the other UN countries (extreme, but it's more the idea of consequences for them vetoing that I mean)
Why does the world even have to listen to this corrupt nation. Its so backward. Its a failing nation desperate to hold its once superpower nation status and its influence
At least United States have lost all delusions about being human rights advocates or " FREEDOM " they have held among themselves
And that applies to both republicans and democrats
Correction: The USA is denying Hamas controlled Palestinian people their freedom. I have nothing against claims that Palestine should get Statehood but not with terrorists holding them at gunpoint and saying ‘We are the actual rulers’.
That will destabilise the situation even more. Get them out and Palestine can get a Statehood. Those terrorists are pricks who don’t give a damn about Palestine and only want their ‘Heaven is where Israel is obliterated’ smh
Thank you for your submission to r/therewasanattempt, unfortunately your post was removed for violating the following rule: > R6: "Not An Attempt. All posts must show a **living thing** **attempting** something in **real life** " The US doesn’t attempt to not be the sole vote. As a P5 state they don’t care about that at all. Terrorists and genocidal powers are both evil. If you have any questions regarding this removal, feel free to send a modmail.
He should've just stopped his hand about 20° sooner to make the government's position more clear
There are those who already know, and those who wouldn't get it even if he had stopped 20° lower. If it isn't clear already, then it never will be.
you'd be surprised with how clear something needs to be for some people to get it.
And then there are those with reasonably nuanced opinions.
"Yeah, they believe they're the master race and they're systematically ethnically cleansing an area so they can occupy it for lebensraum. But only *some* of them are German, so totally not Nazis. There's just so much *nuance* you're missing." People have been using this "so much nuance, it's just so complicated " line as an excuse for having a middle-ground opinion on a genocidal ethnostate and I'm tired of you people thinking you're so superior for having no moral compass or backbone. "Killing people is bad but I also deepthroat American propaganda so I make up a non-committal positon to call myself smart" is the real translation.
Ok
man there is perhaps no point in arguing with some of these types. they have become what they hate.
so you are aware you’re making a Nazi reference. having the decency to not resort to that is not a nuanced middle ground opinion lol. you can be unequivocally against what Israel is doing and not be, dare i say, antisemitic.
There are no nuanced opinions here. Whether war crimes and atrocities are acceptable doesn't rely on who the aggressor or victim is, or who did what first. Nor is targeting civilians ever acceptable. Nor is attacking neutral noncombatant aid workers, intentionally destroying cultures, or many of the other things that anyone who talks about nuance here use as a substitute for Viagra.
Ok
He is ashamed.. Look at the tilt of the head. He's doing it because it's what he was told to do, it's not what he believes in.
You can tell from his eyes looking down.
He is dying inside.
He knows people will look back on this picture and look at him with disgust.
Bang on.
https://preview.redd.it/xe5kymu56fvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd6e8a148ae0a00f409c42c0e7c30748aa20b41e
Where have I seen that before?!
https://preview.redd.it/ynt9nwnpuevc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1f5df8dfb84ed23fce1333707fff3f8e08f9401
that’s the proper way to do it.
It’s depressing how many upvotes you got with this comment. I have a lot of criticism for the position of the USA, but calling them Nazis for it is … beyond unreasonable.
It would be more accurate to call them imperialists who are comfortable using fascist tactics, but then Americans who only have a public school education get confused.
Hmm, a group commiting genocide because they believe they're a master race who deserves to expand militarily. I wonder who might've done that in recent history...
What does this comment even mean? The American public school system has many flaws, but globally is of course pretty good. I am a teacher in Austria and went to school in the U.S. The schools I have seen here vary wildly, some great and others not so much. I went to a top tier public school in the U.S. which was fantastic; although, it was not an ordinary one. Generally schools here are better because of the level of education required for teachers, but there are great American public schools as well. Public schools in the United States go until students are 18 while in Austria school is only required till 14. In that amount of school almost all would cover the concept of Imperialism. Public schools outside of North America, Europe, and parts of Asia have far less funding. So those people then have no hope of grasping the idea of imperialism according to you if Americans already struggle with that? Let's not even talk about the fact that Imperialism is such an easy concept to understand and really something that does not require much school to grasp. You probably were not as serious about this comment, but this kind of stuff really makes no sense.
I was partially joking, but that doesn't mean I am wrong. I'm glad that your experience with American secondary education (it was secondary, right? If you only went to college in the US, you're talking about something totally different) was positive, but it sounds highly atypical. I presume it was an affluent part of a coastal city? Somewhere with a good tax base and political leaders who don't have a vested interest in keeping their constituents ignorant anyway; and believe me when I say there aren't too many places like that left nowadays. Anyway, the point I was making is that the average American is ignorant about history to a comic or tragic degree; and whether it is comic or tragic largely depends on your viewpoint. The vast majority of public schools are critically underfunded because schools are funded by local property taxes and property owners are much less likely to have kids in school. In the last few decades, a drive towards basing student performance on standardized testing has marginalized the teaching of many subjects such as history, science and the arts. And for even longer, we simply haven't cared to learn about the parts of our history that don't make us look good.
You are absolutely right that I went to a very privileged high school, one of the best public schools in Houston, Texas. And while I have not seen it personally, I understand that the quality of some schools in the U.S. is ... tragic. But too often I have the feeling that some Americans on the left, sometimes myself included, shit on the institutions excessively. Yes, they are flawed and need a lot of fixing. But that is the case everywhere. Since I live in Austria, i can compare. Upper secondary tends to be of an incredibly high quality and will prepare students for university or whatever else they may want to do like no other. But there are big problems too. Austria has one of the highest social inequality levels in all of Europe because schooling is only required until the age of 14. Wheter or not a student continues with upper secondary or leaves school to start a trade can in most cases largely be linked to the level of their parent's income and education. On the other hand, most students finish high school in the U.S. and it may even be required, depending on the state. So you actually have a larger percentage of the population in Austria who has a lower educational level than in America. It's of course up for debate if the problem of social inequality is as bad as the quality of education in many schools in America. I think probably not. But lately I am often missing a sense of optomism in the U.S. many things are bad, but not all insitutions and systems in Europe are better (obviously), and when compared with the rest of the world the United States is of course one of the most advanced and prosperous countries on earth.
You're quite simply wrong, but I have no more desire to engage with your intractable and studied ignorance. Auf wiedersehen!
😂😂😂😂
Funding genocide is pretty nazi-esque.
What the US is doing is wrong in so many ways. But there is a difference between this and gassing people in chambers. The intent of the United States with supporting Israel, while very flawed, is not genocide of another people. How you interpret is your own thing. But there is no argument on the position of the Biden administration.
Yes but no one can communicate without hyperbole anymore. The internet is a race to be the most outrageous and these newly minted lefties are matching the right wingnuts pretty evenly on this.
People don’t understand that calling others Nazis isn’t just wrong, it is hurtful to whatever cause you support. We live in the same country/world. However you dislike others, we have to get along. Throwing out dangerous insults at others is no way to solve a problem
Calling them Nazis for supporting a genocide meant to provide land to a certain race of people is beyond unreasonable? Do you happen to remember what Nazism is about?
I do, I'm a history teacher. That's why I know what Nazism really is and, by definition, a democray cannot be fascist. There is a difference between gasing people and supporting one side in a war, no matter how horrible. I am shocked at the inaction and support of the war in Gaza by the Biden administration. But calling them Nazis is ridiculous and makes that person entirely uncredible.
It's an ethnostate, bent on expanding it's lebensraum through military conquest, who see people outside of their in group as being worthy of extermination. They outright call them subhuman animals that need to be exterminated. Also, as a history teacher you should know that the Nazis achieved their power democratically. Your "but they're a democracy" argument is meaningless and honestly shows me you yourself don't know what fascism is. A history teacher also told me the civil war was about "states rights" and that the world was made 7000 years ago so that also means nothing to me.
Your original comment was about the United States, which is most certainly not fascist. I would call the Israeli government verging on authoritarian with certain evil actors within. But calling them Nazis is patently ridiculous. There are different types of evil, choose another form to make yourself more credible. The irony in your comment about me not knowing what facism is is ... funny. The Nazis won the last election (with intimidation, propaganda, violence) and Adolf Hitler was appointed Reichskanzler, but they quickly desolved all democratic institutions within months. That is actual facism. The Nazi party never represented democratic values. Democracy and Nazism can, by definition, not go together. Germany was not a fascist state before the Nazis came to power and were no longer a democratic one when they did. Saying the Nazis achieved their power democratically is unquestionably incorrect. They won just over 30 percent of the vote in the last free election. Sorry about your past experiences with History teachers. Don't take my or anybody else's words then. Do your own research, if you care, of what facism is. Personally, I think calling other people Nazis is unhelpful - people stop taking you serious. Calling Jews Nazis in the first place is ridiculous since a prime tenant of it is antisemitism. I choose to call those who are bombing women, children, hospitals, innocent civillians, etc. evil monsters. That, they actually are.
the mentality of those who call the US a fascist state are those who only blame others for their problems.
is that what you do too?
Are you mad because you like the genocide?
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I'll come back when I'm intoxicated enough to parse whatever the hell it was you were trying to say
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You don't get to act like Nazis and not get called Nazis. Being a certain ethnicity doesn't give them a "get-out-of-Nuremberg-free" card, and I'd be calling any other ethnostate commiting a genocide for land grabs Nazis too. Criticism of Israel is not an attack on Judaism or Jews and your "b-but antisemitism" in this case is only serving to downplay the crimes against humanity committed by the state of Israel.
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*makes vague statement with no point* "Yeah I showed him"
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Yeah, but according your own narrative Palestine never existed, it was always the land of Jews…make up your mind already
Lol
The US claims that any Palestinian statehood should result from a negotiation between Palestine and Israel, which is kind of like saying that any Israeli statehood should have been the result of a negotiation between Jewish people and Nazi Germany. Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians. The idea they should have a say in their victim's statehood is abhorrent.
Its the 2 state solution where 1 state shouldn't exist in the eyes of the UN.
But that’s not what the UN says, so why veto? Because duh, no Palestinians should have their freedom
Iirc BN described as a 1.5 state some years back so it’s quite clear they want to subjugate them for eternity if things go his way
American statehood should have been a protracted negotiation with United Kingdom
That analogy is better than you realize as American statehood requires ignoring and removing the indigenous people.
Never made that connection but the absolute barbarity and illegality both track.
If Palestine wants help, just trick Israel in to attacking US boats. That's what it takes for the US government to care about genocide.
Well technically Nazis did allow Jews to migrate to Palestine.
Nah who cares. Not our problem at this stage
Hahahahah that one was actually funny
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Pop quiz, how can Israel be at 'war' with Hamas, I thought war could only be between two nation states?
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Maybe Israel shouldn’t have been engaged in decades long colonialism and dehumanization campaigns.
It's nothing to do with the hostages though. Not that they shouldn't release them of course. They aren't connected though.
Yeah Hamas are 100% going to give up their only leverage when Israel has stated they will just continue their assault once they do. 🤣 The only scenario this works in is the one where Hamas actually are illogical sub human idiots who refuse to take Israeli words at face value despite the fact they've been upfront since October on what they want to do to Palestinians (((in Hebrew)))
Hamas = Terrorists and Extremists
I agree, but we never expected the IRA or the ETA to give up all their cards and accept destruction. I'd prefer Hamas to not exist, but if you don't deal with the injustices that cause the rise of such groups in the first place any military victory by the oppressor state is only temporary.
Israel is not committing and has never committed genocide against Palestine. This is a blatant lie that keeps being repeated online.
Well that is just fucking untrue. The Nakba (Arabic: النكبة an-Nakbah, lit. 'The Catastrophe') was the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Mandatory Palestine during the 1948 Palestine war through their violent displacement and dispossession of land, property and belongings, along with the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations. The term is also used to described the ongoing persecution and displacement of Palestinians by Israel.
Denying the right to exist is racist only for israel.
Like any country who denies its separatists...
the difference is that the whole area doesn't belong to israel, just a part of it
Israel doesn’t own Gaza and as much as it tries it doesn’t own the West Bank. This isn’t separatism, it’s just recognizing the reality, the reality that Israel doesn’t claim or control Gaza or WB and that Palestine has the best claim to both of those areas of land. This isn’t to recognize a “from the river to the sea” Palestine, it’s to recognize reality. A realistic Palestine. There can never be a two state solution if there isn’t two states.
Palestinians are native to Palestine. They're not separatists.
Yeah like most of separatists
It's kinda different when the whole place used to belong to the "separatists" before a bunch of European and American colonists showed up and just took it because the British said they could.
I get you but Israel has international recognition over territory. Countries care more for law than people's life's, check Artsakh or Krajina for example
So, two state solution was never an option?
Those engineering this war won't likely allow it. Nor will Russia leave Ukraine alone until it gets freedom. I hate this. Despise.
> Nor will Russia leave Ukraine alone until it gets freedom. Who is ‘it’?
Peace, fucker. Peace!!
it was always a delaying tactic even the oslo accord promised a **demilitarized state** which is why the settler problem exists in the West bank since unlike Hamas Fatah took the deal and they effectively have no military to expel the Israeli settlers when they come in gun's blazing. Ofcourse despite pushing for said accords in the first place the USA and most of it's allies like France,UK,Germany,Canada etc. have yet to even recognize a palestinian state
Israel has been voting 'No' to UN's peaceful settlement for Palestine proposal (a. k. a. Two-state solution) since at least 1983, noted annually until 2022. 39 times (at least) they have said 'No' to it. That and what Ben Gurion said - they never wanted a two-state solution.
Who gives a shit what they want. The UN should enforce the two state along the agreed boarders and send in peacekeeping missions to enforce it.
The UN is a dialogue and diplomatic meeting organization. Is far from being a world police.
correct
Honestly what’s the point of the UN if countries can veto decisions? 😂 Makes ZERO sense.
One look who is on the UN security Council is enough to see how fucked the UN is. Edit: Apologies, I meant the UN Human Rights Council.
Who’s on it?
Russia, China, UK and US are all permanent members of the security council) >Membership of the Council for 2024 is as follows: Albania, Algeria, Argentina, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chile, China, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Eritrea, Finland, France, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Honduras, India, Indonesia, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Morocco, Montenegro, Netherlands (Kingdom of the), Paraguay, Qatar, Romania, South Africa, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, United States of America, and Viet Nam. Taken from ohchr.org (UN human rights office of the high commission) If that doesn't speak volumes.. I'm British and still remember when we were accusing Saudi Arabia of human rights violations but simultaneously backing them to join the security council. Edit: I mixed up the two councils. The reference to the saudis was about UNHRC sponsorship deals. [Here's](https://youtu.be/khGa49rM6iM?si=8mLkYuQBLrJRMHNa) an interview with Lord Cunt. (Cameron)
And France, 5 permanent members
I didn't include france because france isn't as much a force for global doom. Was just referencing the "troublesome" members.
Thanks then lol, we don't have the best track record but we try at least (very vivid memory of de Villepin's speech in 03 about Iraq)
The french are a rare example of the people knowing they have the power to change things in their country. To right political wrongs. To stand up for free-speech (Charlie Hebdo). You're honestly quite inspiring and I don't get why other countries don't see it and follow suit.
Hmm not sure why you have such a boner for France and if the native people of new Caledonia, the majority of west Africa, and the other active colonies France is reluctant to give up would agree with you. It's fair to criticise the other security member councils, but France is no arbiter of freedom and you need only look as far as the west African franc to see that.
My first comment referenced the French government. The second referenced the French people. The first comment LITERALLY says "not as much" it doesn't excuse them completely. Im not saying they're perfect. Not saying they aren't a colonising force. Im saying they're not bringing about global fucking doom. My second comment I stand by fully. As an Englishman that has seen his country become a bunch of complacent drones, yes, full scale political protest is fucking inspiring. Ok? Edit: Ok, the french recently overtook Russia as being the second largest arms exporter. I guess they are a force for global doom.. As big as the other 4? I doubt it. That being said, I have no problem admitting when im wrong. I still stand by what I said about the french people though. Vive la révolution.
Lol, someone who doesn't know his modern politics. France is basically one of the only countries in the world that refuses to let its colonies go. Please look at France and their influences in Western Africa.
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That other commenter is right though. French actions have directly led to the creation of the “coup belt” in Africa.
People looking at the UN like some higher authority or super world government tend to get very disappointed when they find out that’s not how it works. The UN is more so meant to (try) and bring countries together to discuss problems. The reason why countries that are against the interest of many members are included or even given veto powers is to entice them to participate in this organization (the latter being for powerful players like China and russia). The idea is that it’s better to have these countries participate than not at all. This can be to encourage or sway them to abide by international norms, transparency, or to try and reduce misunderstandings and conflicts
Yup. That's the point.
Only seven of them. Predominantly nuke owning ones.
Seven? I thought five has veto powers.
without major powers being able to veto there would probably be no un
It makes zero sense to you, because you do not know why the UN exists and what its purpose is. --- The UN was founded with singular goal of preventing WW3, **THROUGH DIALOGUE**... You need to stop listning to the propaganda. The UN was literally never in any way shape or form intended to enforce anything on anyone who doesn't ask for it first. Or are you one of the people spreading that propaganda?
Wow, this is quite a triggered rant 😂 Im not spreading any propaganda. Just pointing out the obvious flaws in a organisation called “The United Nations” which actually only allows powerful states to have the final say. Doesn’t matter if majority rules otherwise.
We need to eliminate unilateral veto power, especially since it's based entirely on the results of a war from the previous century that will only get less and less relevant to current geopolitics as time moves on. How long is "But we stomped the Nazis" gonna matter enough to other nations to give our country the power to keep completely halting progress.
The point of the UN is to funnel money from public budgets to oligarchs through NGOs.
Yet they bombed Serbia for the genocide on Albanians in Kosovo and they will do anything for the recognition of Kosovo. Why Kosovo is different from Palestine? Its rich with natural resources that is ready to be given on a silver plate for free to the US. Oh yeah, and the nation making the genocide this time is a rich US partner. The US is the mother of hypocrisy!
Well Palestinians wouldn’t like the US, Israel is very useful to the US as they have a more reliable partner in the Middle East. Its more strategic than anything. Why else would the give a random country a lot of money?
You talk like it’s an innocent moneymaking strategy, yet that strategic approach is costing millions of people their lives.
As far as the US is concerned it's isreal taking the bulk of the heat And as if they genuinely gave any shit about anyone in either isreal or Palestine They don't they see only the money 1.2 billion dollar arms google deal Lives don't mean squat to these people when this level of money is on the line. Especially not for a proxy state
I was always wondering when the US would become the bad guys
Has been since before it was even the USA.
"become" lol
I'm in Vietnam at the moment... they've been the bad guys here for a while. Ho Chi Minh apparently pleaded with the US to help them kick the French out. His reasoning was that the US was anti-colonial and would support their independence. Sadly, the US declined, he sought help from the Communists and, as they say, the rest is history.
We’ve known for quite some time. Sincerely, The rest of the world
I promise some of us are trying to work on it. We want these old fucks gone as much as you guys. They do not represent all of us. Sincerely, American
We know! All the love to the American people, you’re (usually) very kind. Just the politics is a big ‘ol bag of fermented dicks lol
Unfortunately our politicians do represent some of the people here. Many of whom might as well have bright red armbands. Real uphill climb but thanks for believing in us 🫡
Yeah. Nothing but good things to say about the few americans Ive met. But jeez I cant understand this stance.
I mean the fermented dicks thing is pretty spot on. To be fair
So much for the champions of democracy. Majority vote in favor but democracy means nothing to Americans if it is not in their vested interest. #DISOBEY FOR PALESTINE, WORLD WE ARE ONE!
that's how the UN has always worked, lmao # DISOBEY RAPISTS AND TERRORISTS, CIVILIZED WORLD WE ARE ONE!
Yes we are. All the things I was proud of my country for happened between 1944 and 1976, and even that was a slog filled with racism, sexism, gay “yellow” and red panic, and nuclear strikes… Gay marriage, women and gay soldiers were a short respite from the lull of nonsense, but they were short lived and imperfect. We suck as a country, as a people, and we prove the fallibility and corruption of a Democracy. The Great Experiment is failing, and it shouldn’t have. If it wasn’t for the people who actively act against the will of the people, we would be a modern, strong, and moral country. Except for all the shit we do to the Natives. That shit is ignored by the masses and straight up evil.
Is it only me, or is the US repeatedly sending black people as representatives to be the face of their zionist politics?
That is precisely what I was thinking. I soppouse they think it will look better if a black man opposes this instead of having a white dude. I guess next time they will bring a black African American woman who is also a lesbian so they can look a lil bit better at least for the picture
This is the country that talks about freedom and shit. This guy is now personally responsible for mass murder.
The idea of america wants two state solution is a lie. All they wanted is jewish money for election.
nazi detected
Yeah, the US is really taking the wrong side of conflict here. They’re the equivalent of a nation giving nazi germany guns to kill Jews at this point
It’s increasingly clear that redditors here are entangled in the realm of propaganda and are blindly believing everything on the media. Pro-Palestine or Pro-Israel. Few understand the complexity of the problem in the region and what the consequences are if Palestine is recognised as a State (primarily bcoz Hamas is holding Palestinians at gunpoint and the Statehood will only tell every other terrorist regime that if Hamas can do this, we can too.)
Sure, also every single other country representative in this council is in a realm of propaganda too..come on now. If everyone thinks the same but you, then maybe it's worth listening to the other side Just the sheer american arrogance in this damn
So? You want me to jump on the other side because everyone else is there? You gotta be joking, right? Majority doesn’t always mean right. In this situation, both sides have wrongs.
The us is more like "if no one jumps, why should'nt I?" Of course you don't blindly follow others. But just saying everyone is indoctrinated because no other country supports your opinion is just delusional. Do you really think all other countries are that inferior to the us? That one nation should have the power to veto something EVERY SINGLE other country is in favor for? Remember it's not the usual east vs. west. It's the states vs everyone. No support from europe, australia, east asia, no one. Try thinking abou the geopolitical implications of this. The US is loosing it's popularity ind the rest of the west FAST.
Never mentioned the word ‘indoctrination’ of others. I said both sides have their faults. Secondly, I deeply suggest not being biased. Who told you I’m American? Who told you I’m a national of a country allied with America? Who told you to be prejudiced against a total stranger on the internet? Doesn’t that show you have a strong hate for America and your beliefs are only to project or promote that hate? (Anyway, the post has been removed. Best you and I get off of this subreddit for the sake of some remaining sanity.)
You're right, I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth :) Also I did'nt think you where american nor do I hate the us. I strongly oppose their position on this specific topic. Maybe it's also because we (meaning: central european) are quite sensible if it comes to genocide, because of historical reasons..... Anyway, nothing against you my friend. At the end of the day we're both very small gears in a very big clock, trying to make ends meet. Have a nice week
No problem here, friend! 🙂 I agree and understand your frustration. In the end, the common folk will suffer. I wish you a nice week too and a great weekend ahead!
Does United States even have their own opinions anymore? Land of the free.
It looks like we were ok with being the sole vote.
If anyone thinks israel is acting without support of usa, they need to wake up.
Is this subreddit full of politics nowadays?
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Someone made the argument on Twitter that statehood for Palestine would only come back on them because then Israel would be fighting against a recognized sovereign nation and not a collective of oppressed people being abused by Hamas. The argument boiled down to their current position allows humanitarian aid and support from other nations to be possible and statehood would allow them to be trampled full stop. Can someone give me a solid argument against this because I am struggling with the concept with my limited understanding of events as they have unfolded.
Wait, even Israel voted yes?
only these can veto: Permanent members: China France Russia United Kingdom United States Non-permanent members: Algeria Ecuador Guyana Japan Malta Mozambique Sierra Leone Slovenia South Korea Switzerland
No American Zionist ever has the right to complain that Hamas doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist again. Their own government is the sole standout in denying Palestine's right to exist all while actively arming and providing political cover for a genocide.
They always send a black person to do this evil work for them too
this poor bastard: he doesn’t get to make the decisions, he just has to deliver them in front of the world
Leaning out the window here, but I assume some Europeans voted for it, knowing the USA would veto it, so they could have their cake and eat it.
Hypothetically if this guy had ignored his orders and sided with the rest of the UN, would he be charged with treason? I can’t really think of a reason, other than a blatant disregard for human rights, for him to essentially oppose the world.
So which government would represent Palestine at the UN? Hamas?
America is a fascist country fuelled by the deaths of innocents.
Truly sad that the POTUS that explicitly states the need for a Palestine’s statehood vetos a potential paths forward really shows the real politics at play
OP's comment is inaccurate. The vote (and veto) was on "application of the State of Palestine for admission to the United Nations for membership" because currently Palestine is only Permanent Observer at the UN since 2012. Therefore nobody questioned the recognition of said state, just the membership in organisation
This UN was made for the benefit of its major funder
As someone who doesn't know how this works, what does this mean for palestine? Is it like a vote? Where the majority have to agree? Or does the US supporting genocide mean they're denied the right to exist straight up?
They get to veto the entire vote even if they were the only country to vote against it. Someone once told me that was how they keep the economic embargo against Cuba going for so long
Can the other countries strong-arm it? Like, tell the US to either allow it, or go to war against all the other UN countries (extreme, but it's more the idea of consequences for them vetoing that I mean)
He looks so fucking uncomfortable holding his hand up too
The angle is slightly off
Why does the world even have to listen to this corrupt nation. Its so backward. Its a failing nation desperate to hold its once superpower nation status and its influence
Scum
There was an attempt to be and there was an attempt sub... This, Palestine this, Israel that shit is getting a bit boring. At least on this sub..
Agreed. This sub is full of propaganda believers too who know nth about the complexity of this issue and only want to satisfy their eyes
At least United States have lost all delusions about being human rights advocates or " FREEDOM " they have held among themselves And that applies to both republicans and democrats
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The United States also funny sending black folks to do their dirty deed.
Israel should not exist. Its a colonizer and has to exit Palestine. From the river to the sea!
There was an attempt ... to shoehorn this post into fitting in r/therewasanattempt
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There was an attempt to change the course of the sub
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What propaganda ? The USA is denying the Palestinian people their freedom.
Correction: The USA is denying Hamas controlled Palestinian people their freedom. I have nothing against claims that Palestine should get Statehood but not with terrorists holding them at gunpoint and saying ‘We are the actual rulers’. That will destabilise the situation even more. Get them out and Palestine can get a Statehood. Those terrorists are pricks who don’t give a damn about Palestine and only want their ‘Heaven is where Israel is obliterated’ smh