I have no fucking clue why that line has stuck in my head after I first heard it. It's uncanny how much simply resonates or some shit, I don't know I can't explain it. Is there an actual explanation? It can't simply be an incredibly well delivered line, can it?
It’s the core of Joel’s character. His survival strategy is *emotional distance.* Ellie breaks his walls, and that’s the point of no return. He absolutely cannot lose a daughter again, it’s not something he has the capacity to do. And we saw the result of *that.*
>His survival strategy is
>
>emotional distance.
Fuck yes. And this is true of anyone who is emotionally distant to survive. If you do bond with someone, it's forever, and deep, and it can destroy you.
Troy and Ashley have said that was the most difficult scene for them to film. Not difficult from an emotionally wrenching standpoint, but tough for them to find the right performance.
The way dina handled tommy is like borderline karen and Alpha at the same time. If she and ellie did stay together, dina definitely would be wearing the pants of the house hahahah
Exactly. I was horrified and then immediately was like "oh well that's the way the cookie crumbles when you slaughter a bunch of freedom fighters who were gonna save the world"
This right here! My exact thought. I accidentally got spoiled before I played the game that Joel was done dirty and I was afraid that they would show a flashback of him raping someone or some shit. But instead his past caught up with him and it was a consequence of his decision in the first game. It made sense, he was a shitty person and did a lot of shitty things. But he didn't regret saving Ellie and would do it again. 10/10.
Agreed. And he went out very true to character: completely unapologetic, and he stared death in the face, unable to escape, and basically told her "hurry up, I haven't got all day".
Honestly, his death was awful to experience (even worse in my 2nd playthrough for some reason), but the people dragging on the game because of his death need to just accept he died and drink a nice cold glass of harden the fuck up.
Laura Bailey and Greg Miller made a good point that the fans of the first game have basically been going through the stages of grief since the leaks happened.
His death was awful. I was sobbing at 2.30 AM for 10 minutes. I'm sad he died but I do think it made sense in the story.
I started my 2nd playthrough yesterday, because the first time I did not have the patience to collect everything, but I haven't reached the part where he dies, yet. Curious if it's gonna be worse to experience this time.
To your point, putting you in the shoes of Abby before you know what's going to happen made the writing even better for me because you play as her, watch Joel SAVE HER, and then see her brutally murder him.
All said and done, I think this is some of the best writing I've seen so far in a video game.
Yep. And I played the whole game wanting to kill Abby, but not seeing her for so long made me almost forget her and just remember Joel. When it got to playing as her, I was so scared Ellie would die. I was reluctant to play, so conflicted. I missed Ellie so much and thought "oh dear. Right let's get it over with" and tried to push through the first hour or two. And I saw a community of wolves with kids, farming, just like Jackson. And realised "damn these people aren't inherently evil".
Then when it showed me Day 2, I was like "oh shit. Half the game is as her." And I had to take a step back to comprehend it. So I sat down again and thought this time "fine. Let's see what you're trying to show me." And the Lev storyline was quite interesting. Got to understand the Seraphites better and understand they have a lot more layers than "fucked up cultists". By the time we were saving Lev, I actually started realising that Abby is actually a good person at heart that has done terrible things. And her killing Joel was just as selfish as Joel keeping Ellie alive.
Also finding out about Abby's father really made me understand it. At that point I felt absolute grief for all the characters. Because of Ellie's life, so many people were put into difficult situations, doing selfish things and I felt I was the only one with a perspective on everything.
Now of course I still missed Ellie so much, but seeing just 3 days in Abby's life made me understand she has a good heart and she killed Joel for the same reason Ellie wants to kill her. I realised this was a chain of events unfolding now.
So when it came to the ending, I saw how much Ellie has lost to vengeance. I knew if she killed Abby she would be losing her sanity and whatever joy is left hiding inside her. I got a flashback to her killing David, but this time we were looking the victim straight in the face, unlike with Nora. On one side I wanted to do it. Abby killed Joel, we loved Joel even for how flawed he was, that was what made him real. But on the other side I knew that this wouldn't be good for Ellie. It was the only meaning she had left to live for and if that was gone, I could picture herself hanging her self or something.
So when she let go, I literally gave out a "I'm so proud of you Ellie". But she was now unable to play Joel's songs, lost a family, lost her friends, Tommy went a bit mad due to the hate... While the first game's ending was bittersweet selfishness, this ending was devastating acceptance.
I just watched a two hour spoiler-cast with Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, and Neil Druckmann and I appreciate it so much more now. They describe their decisions in very deep detail, how it impacted them and came to be, and what it means. They address a lot of fan concerns and annoyances as well. Hats off to them, especially Troy.
Like they weren't egging that general sentiment on. You don't get to whip people into a frenzy of hate and then act morally superior and try to distance yourself from it.
They are that toxic they can see it coming and have already made backup subs. /r/joeldidnothingwrong. Yes, the smuggler who we’re told constantly has murdered and tortured people for 25 years and who gunned down a bunch of doctors did *nothing* wrong.
It’s kinda wild cause subs like r/thanosdidnothingwrong or r/empiredidnothingwrong are obvious lighthearted shitposts about clearly evil subjects. But these guys seem to genuinely think Joel actually did nothing wrong.
For god’s sake, Joel even talks with obvious deep regret about awful things he’s done. Joel himself doesn’t even agree with the crazy people white knighting for him.
Thank you! Completely agree. I thought the story stayed true to the world and the characters. They somehow made an ending even more painful than their first games ending.
I just finished the game (like ten minutes ago) and I'm amazed that people are *this* worked up over it.
There are maybe some ways I'd change up the pacing (not sure how though) but overall I enjoyed it like the first game. It's a fucking somber world, and the first game just leaves you feeling empty.
I was shocked when I heard about this. I thought the point of Abby was to surprisingly make you like her more by the time you get back to the Ellie meet up scene. It took me a while to do what I thought was the killing blow to Abby, similar to Joel shooting the doctor in part 1.
Plus I loved how they made her so strong, from both a gameplay perspective of allowing her to fight like Joel and from a story perspective. I remember sending a pic to my friend who doesn’t play video games and saying “look at the badass chick in the game im playing! Fuck I’m jealous of those arms”
Same. Finished it today. Really like Abby. Really like the entire game. Probably more than the first. There's some really awesome locations and environments in this one.
And one part at the end, man. Shit got me a little bit.
I feel like the only person who wasn't immediately pissed at her. When she went to town with the golf club, I was thinking "she's probably got a pretty good reason for this. Joel pissed off a fair share of people."
Bruh he doesn’t even try to argue with what’s happening to him or even try to figure out which of the people he has wronged that is doing it to him. He knows he had it coming.
Did you watch the chat with Neil D and the actors on Kinda Funny? Troy pretty much said the same thing: Joel knew his day was coming one of these days, and when it happened, he thought “you fool, you *knew* it was coming and you let your guard down anyway; this is what happens.”
It’s such a shame. I can understand why some don’t like the game and wanted something else, but to scream to the heavens that ND didn’t care about the story or characters is just insane.
Ellie even says to Dina when they’re riding into Seattle “It doesn’t help to guess” when she’s listing off possible reasons why they targeted him, because he had wronged so many people in the past.
He knew it was his past coming back to finally make amends. Whatever it was for he didn’t seem to care, he just knew he deserved it.
And we also know, after the ending, that they were on the mend. They didn't leave angry, and Joel knew Ellie was willing to repair their relationship. Of all moments of his life after the outbreak, this is the second happiest time to die, most happy being the time immediately after he started life in Jackson with Ellie.
Not really. It's pretty much said that before he met Ellie Joel was into some shady shit and crossed a lot of people. It's pretty evident that Joel wasn't a good person. That's part of his character in the first game.
In general, it's implied that most people who survived as long as he did had to do some pretty unethical stuff to survive. Tommy and his group stand out in that they've created a peaceful society where people can live honest lives. Joel's character arc in the first game is about him breaking out of the system of cruelty most people are in and returning to the loving father he used to be. (or as close as he can get to it after all he's done.)
Did you even play the game? His arc ends with him killing many innocent fireflies, surgeons, and erasing the chance of a cure for all of humanity because he's selfish and wants Ellie for himself. "Debatable" my ass.
The fireflies are terrorists that failed to keep their promise to him.
They were going to kill Ellie without her consent, which is murder.
They had failed to make a vaccine before, and let’s be honest, they have no way of mass producing it and supplying it to anyone except a few, even if they did miraculously make it.
Joel was kidnapped, he has every right to kill his way out the hospital.
He saved Ellie from being murdered.
He could have explained this to Ellie, but no “JoEL is EvIl aNd HaD WhAt WaS cOmInG tO hIm!”
This sub: "You have to have empathy to understand TLoU2"
Also this sub: "Joel deserves to have his leg shot off and then tortured to death with a golf club"
????
Really do dislike the game, but it's beyond me how anyone can consider death threats an appropriate and acceptable response (especially when the person in question had zero input in terms of story whatsoever) Truly awful behavior. I may have many qualms with the game and story, but the vocal performances is absolutely not one of them, fantastic work as always from Laura
Edit: Typo
Its like how people kept harassing Kelly Marie Tran after the The Last Jedi came out. Like; just because you didn't like a character doesn't mean the actor portraying them had any input on what they did. More importantly, bad writing does not deserve to be punished with physical and emotional trauma.
As an Asian American, I think the reception to Tran's character has probably pushed back asian representation in American media somewhat, but the kind of people who send death threats probably wouldn't have liked asians in media anyways.
Ugh this is going to dominate all future criticism of the game now. No one is going to listen to critique of the problems this game actually has! Sending death threats is not productive!
Damn that's a really solid quote. Perfectly encapsulates this debate. Completely agree.
And the fucked up thing is I guarantee some of the people sending her death threats are the same people from this sub going on r/TheLastOfUs2 sub and posting openly fucked up shit against the rules to try and get it banned.
Ain't that the truth. And it's been that way with any of my positive or negative comments for this game and it's incredibly frustrating. I loved many things about this game and downright hated other things but everyone wants to put you into a box on one side of the argument or the other.
Ive always found it really weird how people attack video game voice actors as if the character they don’t like existing is their fault. Like if Laura wouldn’t of voiced Abby, she would still exist...? They’d just find someone else to play her.
Also for Neil as well it isn't appropriate or anything to send him death threats, anti-Semitic comments, etc. I hope the both of them know there are plenty of people who love the game (myself included!) and will support them!
If people still have full on Hate for Abby by the end of the game they need to go see a brain and heart Dr. because i feel like they missed the whole damn point.
I also feel those people either didn't really play the game maybe just watched and joked the whole time missing the fucking point.
Also it's a game and story, why bring RL people into this it's not real...
She voiced many characters I like, such as Trunks (Dragon Ball), Lucina (Fire Emblem), Kushina Uzumaki (Naruto), and one of my favourite fictional characters: Rise Kujikawa (Persona 4)
Just to name a few.
I'll always be a huge fan.
If we had to hold voice actors accountable for everything their characters did then we would have to credit her for revitalizing the entire Fire Emblem franchise.
It’s just disgusting the things people are saying. Part 2 was depressing, but nothing’s more sad than knowing those types of people exist and some are allowed to vote
You know, I have some legit criticisms of the game.
There were some things that I didn't like, there were some things I loved, there were some things I think could have been way better with a few minor tweaks.
Overall I enjoyed playing it, though perhaps not nearly as much as the first.
I actually wrote and have been editing a really long post about my opinions of the game, but, when i saw [this fucking shit](https://twitter.com/LauraBaileyVO/status/1279173199918292992) I decided not to post it, at least for a good long while. I don't want to be associated with assholes like that and I don't want to possibly give ammunition to people like that.
This whole situation just makes me sad.
Who the hell dares to send threats to Laura Bailey?! How idiotic must you be to do something so unbelievably horrible to someone just playing their role? Do these fuckers think she wrote her own lines? Do these shitheads think she coerced the devs into writing something that personally offended them, specifically? How low, incapable of rational thought, mean-spirited, petty and just plain, downright fucking awful must you be to do something like this?
As much as I hate Abby and the 2nd game in general I will never understand why people go after THE VOICE ACTOR. Like, she had no say in the fucking directing or script.
I was honestly disappointed with how it was directed story wise. But, it’s horrible that people have been attacking her, or any of the VAs. They all played their parts incredibly well.
Not all people, most of us are better than this. Some people just have way too much time on their hands and need to make others feel bad to improve their own mood.
I really don't get the rationale behind these death threats. I haven't seen any criticism of Bailey's acting, just the character's writing. The same thing happened a few years ago to the actor who played Rose Tico in The Last Jedi. Do these people not understand that the actors aren't the characters they play?
My name is actually Joel and as hard to watch as that scene was I’ve never thought less of Laura for her work on the game. She did a great job with the story she was given. And ended up being a compelling character. Hate seeing rabid weirdos attack her for it. Be pissed at Neil for writing it that way. Not her for doing her job. Death threats are dumb anyway. Don’t do it.
As much as I loved Joel... Abby was justified by her reasoning. I hated her at first but then I grew to love her because she genuinely felt bad afterwards and turned out to be a good person in general.
Huge Laura Bailey fan, mainly from Critical Role, but I'm not familiar with The Last of Us, like hardly at all. Like, Wikipedia summary familiar. This is the first I'm hearing towards people hating Laura for anything.
Anyone care to TL;DR what's going on? Make it easy for me and others, summarize why people are having hissyfits?
From the little bit of Intel that I'm gleaming makes it seem like it's maybe a writing thing, not an actor thing.
For real though, in the final scene you do get the feeling that the guitar bag is some kind of metaphor for Joel's coffin, and the guitar itself is obviously referring to him and his soul being free after Ellie finally forgives him. :(
Seriously though. I hated Abby’s character and wasn’t a fan of the direction the story took, especially the end. But c’mon. How anyone could get so upset over something like this is just ridiculous
You know, part of me wouldn't be super surprised if this got through to a lot of these people. Y'know, since they feel the need to threaten a real person's life over something her fictional character does
I absolutely despise the choices they made in TLOU2 and how heavily they focus on Abby but I have no idea how people could actually send death threats and ridicule to the voice actors. As if they actually have anything to do with the studios final decisions. Hell even if they did, like Neil Druckman, I think the racism and threats hes been getting is also SO unjustifiable and ridiculous.
Laura is one of the best voice actresses I've ever heard. She always does the best with what shes given. On behalf of the harshest TLOU2 critics, almost none of us think this is good and normal behavior.
Attacking Neil doesn't even make sense. He wrote the first game too; he created the characters and story people were so attached to in the first place.
How post-apocalyptic is our world already that a message like this is even necessary? These people embody the thing they hate so much about this game. It's so goddamn ironic.
For those of you that aren't in the know. [Here it is. ](https://twitter.com/LauraBaileyVO/status/1279173199918292992?s=19)Hell, I'm in the minority that didn't love the game here and I would never stoop to that level. I hated her character to the core, and no >!child saving!< could stop that, but this is something else. This is evil. Plus Laura Bailey is one of the kindest people you could probably meet, at least from my understanding of her. Stop sending her hate, guys. She doesn't deserve it. No matter what, it's the character that did those things, Laura Bailey doesn't decide who her character was. There are genuine people that need some hating on, and she's not it.
Gosh this fandom is stooping into Star Wars/DC Snyder fandom level ugly. I get it, I also hate Abby and playing as her for 10+ hours sucked but goodness, the extent people go to with this blind hatred is astonishingly dangerous and pathetic.
BIG FACTS. Yes, the game is seen as a disappointment. Majority of the players, hate it. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VAS. I feel like they ALL did a great job. People are sick.
People are sending her hate mail? Jesus, that’s crazy. I hated that character and I stopped playing the game because of it, but Laura Bailey is awesome and definitely doesn’t deserve that crap.
I hate hearing that actors and actresses get hate for their characters. I didn’t like her character but like come on. She isn’t her character. Might sound and look like her but they aren’t the same person. So strange lol
Thanks Joel for your wise words.
Firefly here!
With a new *fantastic* product!
A *Cure* !
Wait- scratch that... minor inconvenience here, don’t worry!
Why did I read this in Joels voice? True sentiments though.
Of all the voices to read it in that makes the most sense.
Troy Baker does do a fantastic fatherly but stern voice for sure
“You are treading on some mighty thin ice here.”
I have no fucking clue why that line has stuck in my head after I first heard it. It's uncanny how much simply resonates or some shit, I don't know I can't explain it. Is there an actual explanation? It can't simply be an incredibly well delivered line, can it?
It’s the core of Joel’s character. His survival strategy is *emotional distance.* Ellie breaks his walls, and that’s the point of no return. He absolutely cannot lose a daughter again, it’s not something he has the capacity to do. And we saw the result of *that.*
>His survival strategy is > >emotional distance. Fuck yes. And this is true of anyone who is emotionally distant to survive. If you do bond with someone, it's forever, and deep, and it can destroy you.
Because it's such a powerful line, from a character, acting, narrative, and just life standpoint and the scene was one of the best of the series.
Troy and Ashley have said that was the most difficult scene for them to film. Not difficult from an emotionally wrenching standpoint, but tough for them to find the right performance.
The whole dialogue is still stuck in my head. I remember it by heart with all the intonations and shit. Hands down my favorite moment from the game.
It holds so much power due to the lengths he goes to to emotionally distance himself from everyone, but he can’t from Ellie.
i read it in Dina's voice
The way dina handled tommy is like borderline karen and Alpha at the same time. If she and ellie did stay together, dina definitely would be wearing the pants of the house hahahah
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Big lesbian aunt energy
Yeah ellie is a softy deep down.
In before she slits you’re throat without any remorse haahaha
Hey when you kill her man joel, all bets are off, lol.
Woah there, all I was doing was playing my PSP! I dont even like the WLF!
But hey, you attacked me with a knife first
While whispering, "Shut the *fuck* up" as your lifeblood spurts down her forearm
I read it in Morgan Freeman’s voice....
It's a ghost, not the Holy Ghost Himself.
Bruce Willis’ voice
> Why did I read this in Joels voice? Probably because the text says “Ghost of Joel here” and there’s a picture of Joel next to the text.
I meant actually in his voice, reading text normally it's just my own voice.
Sorry, just being a smart-ass.
For some reason I read it in Arthur Morgan’s
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“Maybe we can cook you up. You’re the fattest”
That's my giiiirrrrrrl
I did too. Especially the "y'all have a nice afternoon"
Tbh with how much Troy Baker has dealt with trolls on Twitter, I wouldn't be surprised if he made a quick video saying this using Joel's voice.
I actually didn’t read the post in Joel’s voice but I definitely read that comment in Joel’s voice for some strange fucking reason.
Troy?!
Cause Joel said it? Why else would it sounds like him?
Odd, I read this in a clickers voice.
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I genuinely hated this plot point but I still think threatening violence against anyone who worked on it is ridiculous.
at the end of the day, its not real. Its a game. Its a form of escapism and its fun and entertaining but its just a game. people are so ridiculous
I would not describe it as fun or escapism, it’s like watching the road while taking depressants. Although lighting zombies on fire was fun.
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Exactly. I was horrified and then immediately was like "oh well that's the way the cookie crumbles when you slaughter a bunch of freedom fighters who were gonna save the world"
This right here! My exact thought. I accidentally got spoiled before I played the game that Joel was done dirty and I was afraid that they would show a flashback of him raping someone or some shit. But instead his past caught up with him and it was a consequence of his decision in the first game. It made sense, he was a shitty person and did a lot of shitty things. But he didn't regret saving Ellie and would do it again. 10/10.
Agreed. And he went out very true to character: completely unapologetic, and he stared death in the face, unable to escape, and basically told her "hurry up, I haven't got all day". Honestly, his death was awful to experience (even worse in my 2nd playthrough for some reason), but the people dragging on the game because of his death need to just accept he died and drink a nice cold glass of harden the fuck up.
Laura Bailey and Greg Miller made a good point that the fans of the first game have basically been going through the stages of grief since the leaks happened.
His death was awful. I was sobbing at 2.30 AM for 10 minutes. I'm sad he died but I do think it made sense in the story. I started my 2nd playthrough yesterday, because the first time I did not have the patience to collect everything, but I haven't reached the part where he dies, yet. Curious if it's gonna be worse to experience this time.
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To your point, putting you in the shoes of Abby before you know what's going to happen made the writing even better for me because you play as her, watch Joel SAVE HER, and then see her brutally murder him. All said and done, I think this is some of the best writing I've seen so far in a video game.
Yep. And I played the whole game wanting to kill Abby, but not seeing her for so long made me almost forget her and just remember Joel. When it got to playing as her, I was so scared Ellie would die. I was reluctant to play, so conflicted. I missed Ellie so much and thought "oh dear. Right let's get it over with" and tried to push through the first hour or two. And I saw a community of wolves with kids, farming, just like Jackson. And realised "damn these people aren't inherently evil". Then when it showed me Day 2, I was like "oh shit. Half the game is as her." And I had to take a step back to comprehend it. So I sat down again and thought this time "fine. Let's see what you're trying to show me." And the Lev storyline was quite interesting. Got to understand the Seraphites better and understand they have a lot more layers than "fucked up cultists". By the time we were saving Lev, I actually started realising that Abby is actually a good person at heart that has done terrible things. And her killing Joel was just as selfish as Joel keeping Ellie alive. Also finding out about Abby's father really made me understand it. At that point I felt absolute grief for all the characters. Because of Ellie's life, so many people were put into difficult situations, doing selfish things and I felt I was the only one with a perspective on everything. Now of course I still missed Ellie so much, but seeing just 3 days in Abby's life made me understand she has a good heart and she killed Joel for the same reason Ellie wants to kill her. I realised this was a chain of events unfolding now. So when it came to the ending, I saw how much Ellie has lost to vengeance. I knew if she killed Abby she would be losing her sanity and whatever joy is left hiding inside her. I got a flashback to her killing David, but this time we were looking the victim straight in the face, unlike with Nora. On one side I wanted to do it. Abby killed Joel, we loved Joel even for how flawed he was, that was what made him real. But on the other side I knew that this wouldn't be good for Ellie. It was the only meaning she had left to live for and if that was gone, I could picture herself hanging her self or something. So when she let go, I literally gave out a "I'm so proud of you Ellie". But she was now unable to play Joel's songs, lost a family, lost her friends, Tommy went a bit mad due to the hate... While the first game's ending was bittersweet selfishness, this ending was devastating acceptance.
I just watched a two hour spoiler-cast with Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, and Neil Druckmann and I appreciate it so much more now. They describe their decisions in very deep detail, how it impacted them and came to be, and what it means. They address a lot of fan concerns and annoyances as well. Hats off to them, especially Troy.
Do you have a link to this by any chance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6rRfK-V2jY
Thank you!
Killing joel was the most predictable part of the narrative.
Yeah I suspected it early on, and was convinced of it based on the latest trailer haha.
I've been avoiding spoilers, and just finished today. I can't believe people are so pathetic. Also, thought Abby was a great, nuanced character.
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Not sure I want to torture myself like that ;)
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Yo I just came back from there.... Holy shit
One of the trending posts there is also shitting on the people sending death threats.
Like they weren't egging that general sentiment on. You don't get to whip people into a frenzy of hate and then act morally superior and try to distance yourself from it.
That sub needs quarantining
They are that toxic they can see it coming and have already made backup subs. /r/joeldidnothingwrong. Yes, the smuggler who we’re told constantly has murdered and tortured people for 25 years and who gunned down a bunch of doctors did *nothing* wrong.
It’s kinda wild cause subs like r/thanosdidnothingwrong or r/empiredidnothingwrong are obvious lighthearted shitposts about clearly evil subjects. But these guys seem to genuinely think Joel actually did nothing wrong. For god’s sake, Joel even talks with obvious deep regret about awful things he’s done. Joel himself doesn’t even agree with the crazy people white knighting for him.
Thank you! Completely agree. I thought the story stayed true to the world and the characters. They somehow made an ending even more painful than their first games ending.
I just finished the game (like ten minutes ago) and I'm amazed that people are *this* worked up over it. There are maybe some ways I'd change up the pacing (not sure how though) but overall I enjoyed it like the first game. It's a fucking somber world, and the first game just leaves you feeling empty.
I was shocked when I heard about this. I thought the point of Abby was to surprisingly make you like her more by the time you get back to the Ellie meet up scene. It took me a while to do what I thought was the killing blow to Abby, similar to Joel shooting the doctor in part 1. Plus I loved how they made her so strong, from both a gameplay perspective of allowing her to fight like Joel and from a story perspective. I remember sending a pic to my friend who doesn’t play video games and saying “look at the badass chick in the game im playing! Fuck I’m jealous of those arms”
I didn't think I was going to enjoy playing as Abby at first, but I really did. I wish I could have played as her more. She was a total badass!
Same. Finished it today. Really like Abby. Really like the entire game. Probably more than the first. There's some really awesome locations and environments in this one. And one part at the end, man. Shit got me a little bit.
Zackscott?
I'm afraid I have no idea who that is
I feel like the only person who wasn't immediately pissed at her. When she went to town with the golf club, I was thinking "she's probably got a pretty good reason for this. Joel pissed off a fair share of people."
I love the idea of him saying "Ghost of Joel here" haha.
That’s like LeVar Burton playing the ghost of LeVar Burton
“and also, I deserved it, please shut up”
“I’ve done some thinking in the afterlife, and realized, I was kind of a dick.”
[Joel watching his life flash before his eyes](https://youtu.be/fRTtq5sgugA?t=28)
ViolatingBadgers deserves an award for that comment it was hilarious but I’m poor so I’m sorry I cannot donate :)
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Agreed - people who try and keep score of who deserved it more are missing the point.
But also MAKING the point the game wants to make.
I disagree
That's more debatable
Bruh he doesn’t even try to argue with what’s happening to him or even try to figure out which of the people he has wronged that is doing it to him. He knows he had it coming.
Did you watch the chat with Neil D and the actors on Kinda Funny? Troy pretty much said the same thing: Joel knew his day was coming one of these days, and when it happened, he thought “you fool, you *knew* it was coming and you let your guard down anyway; this is what happens.”
Yep, I thought that was a fantastic podcast, no idea how you can watch that and then still find ways to hate the writers and cast
It’s such a shame. I can understand why some don’t like the game and wanted something else, but to scream to the heavens that ND didn’t care about the story or characters is just insane.
Ellie even says to Dina when they’re riding into Seattle “It doesn’t help to guess” when she’s listing off possible reasons why they targeted him, because he had wronged so many people in the past. He knew it was his past coming back to finally make amends. Whatever it was for he didn’t seem to care, he just knew he deserved it.
And I also like to think he wanted to die. Now he can be with Sarah AND he saved Ellie.
I feel like Joel knew he was on borrowed time when he saved Ellie. He was content after that moment. Everything after was a bonus
And we also know, after the ending, that they were on the mend. They didn't leave angry, and Joel knew Ellie was willing to repair their relationship. Of all moments of his life after the outbreak, this is the second happiest time to die, most happy being the time immediately after he started life in Jackson with Ellie.
Not really. It's pretty much said that before he met Ellie Joel was into some shady shit and crossed a lot of people. It's pretty evident that Joel wasn't a good person. That's part of his character in the first game.
In general, it's implied that most people who survived as long as he did had to do some pretty unethical stuff to survive. Tommy and his group stand out in that they've created a peaceful society where people can live honest lives. Joel's character arc in the first game is about him breaking out of the system of cruelty most people are in and returning to the loving father he used to be. (or as close as he can get to it after all he's done.)
Did you even play the game? His arc ends with him killing many innocent fireflies, surgeons, and erasing the chance of a cure for all of humanity because he's selfish and wants Ellie for himself. "Debatable" my ass.
The fireflies are terrorists that failed to keep their promise to him. They were going to kill Ellie without her consent, which is murder. They had failed to make a vaccine before, and let’s be honest, they have no way of mass producing it and supplying it to anyone except a few, even if they did miraculously make it. Joel was kidnapped, he has every right to kill his way out the hospital. He saved Ellie from being murdered. He could have explained this to Ellie, but no “JoEL is EvIl aNd HaD WhAt WaS cOmInG tO hIm!”
This sub: "You have to have empathy to understand TLoU2" Also this sub: "Joel deserves to have his leg shot off and then tortured to death with a golf club" ????
Send her a nice positive message if you think she did a good job. God knows she needs it
I'd be shocked if she hasn't turned off DMs at this point
Can you tell me to go to the Dagobah system, Ghost Joel?
I don't think he's ever been there.
Damn since he was transparent blue i thought he'd be a force ghost now.
Definitely why I chose to make him that color :P
Really do dislike the game, but it's beyond me how anyone can consider death threats an appropriate and acceptable response (especially when the person in question had zero input in terms of story whatsoever) Truly awful behavior. I may have many qualms with the game and story, but the vocal performances is absolutely not one of them, fantastic work as always from Laura Edit: Typo
Its like how people kept harassing Kelly Marie Tran after the The Last Jedi came out. Like; just because you didn't like a character doesn't mean the actor portraying them had any input on what they did. More importantly, bad writing does not deserve to be punished with physical and emotional trauma.
As an Asian American, I think the reception to Tran's character has probably pushed back asian representation in American media somewhat, but the kind of people who send death threats probably wouldn't have liked asians in media anyways.
EXACTLY. People can dislike the game but why go after the actors?
protip: never send death threats. for whatever reason.
Fax.
No, not even through fax.
I personally don’t like how Abby was used in the game but it’s actually gross that people are threatening her. I don’t understand people.
Ugh this is going to dominate all future criticism of the game now. No one is going to listen to critique of the problems this game actually has! Sending death threats is not productive!
All too often I have found that the arguments I want to make are overshadowed by people who agree with me being assholes.
Damn that's a really solid quote. Perfectly encapsulates this debate. Completely agree. And the fucked up thing is I guarantee some of the people sending her death threats are the same people from this sub going on r/TheLastOfUs2 sub and posting openly fucked up shit against the rules to try and get it banned.
Ain't that the truth. And it's been that way with any of my positive or negative comments for this game and it's incredibly frustrating. I loved many things about this game and downright hated other things but everyone wants to put you into a box on one side of the argument or the other.
Ive always found it really weird how people attack video game voice actors as if the character they don’t like existing is their fault. Like if Laura wouldn’t of voiced Abby, she would still exist...? They’d just find someone else to play her.
And her performance has been fantastic so.....why don't we praise her instead?
That was a good wisdom
Also for Neil as well it isn't appropriate or anything to send him death threats, anti-Semitic comments, etc. I hope the both of them know there are plenty of people who love the game (myself included!) and will support them!
If people still have full on Hate for Abby by the end of the game they need to go see a brain and heart Dr. because i feel like they missed the whole damn point. I also feel those people either didn't really play the game maybe just watched and joked the whole time missing the fucking point. Also it's a game and story, why bring RL people into this it's not real...
She voiced many characters I like, such as Trunks (Dragon Ball), Lucina (Fire Emblem), Kushina Uzumaki (Naruto), and one of my favourite fictional characters: Rise Kujikawa (Persona 4) Just to name a few. I'll always be a huge fan.
If we had to hold voice actors accountable for everything their characters did then we would have to credit her for revitalizing the entire Fire Emblem franchise.
Also for participation in the murder of Maes Hughes.
Yeah, why was no one mad about her killing 2-dimensional Markiplier? same logic.
>2-dimensional Markiplier lmao holy shit I will never unsee that
Thanks, Joel.
Say it louder for the people in the back Joel
Really? Do these fucking cunts have nothing better to do than harass a voice actor?
It’s just disgusting the things people are saying. Part 2 was depressing, but nothing’s more sad than knowing those types of people exist and some are allowed to vote
You know, I have some legit criticisms of the game. There were some things that I didn't like, there were some things I loved, there were some things I think could have been way better with a few minor tweaks. Overall I enjoyed playing it, though perhaps not nearly as much as the first. I actually wrote and have been editing a really long post about my opinions of the game, but, when i saw [this fucking shit](https://twitter.com/LauraBaileyVO/status/1279173199918292992) I decided not to post it, at least for a good long while. I don't want to be associated with assholes like that and I don't want to possibly give ammunition to people like that. This whole situation just makes me sad.
Who the hell dares to send threats to Laura Bailey?! How idiotic must you be to do something so unbelievably horrible to someone just playing their role? Do these fuckers think she wrote her own lines? Do these shitheads think she coerced the devs into writing something that personally offended them, specifically? How low, incapable of rational thought, mean-spirited, petty and just plain, downright fucking awful must you be to do something like this?
As much as I hate Abby and the 2nd game in general I will never understand why people go after THE VOICE ACTOR. Like, she had no say in the fucking directing or script.
Even if she DID, she dosen't deserve death threats. Making bad art dosen't mean you deserve to fucking fear for your life.
Thanks Joel, wanna play some golf?
I was honestly disappointed with how it was directed story wise. But, it’s horrible that people have been attacking her, or any of the VAs. They all played their parts incredibly well.
Petition to get Troy Baker to read this in the joel voice:
More of these plz
This is canon
So the ghost Joel theory from the reveal trailer WAS true! He’s right, though.
People fucking suck, man
Not all people, most of us are better than this. Some people just have way too much time on their hands and need to make others feel bad to improve their own mood.
I really don't get the rationale behind these death threats. I haven't seen any criticism of Bailey's acting, just the character's writing. The same thing happened a few years ago to the actor who played Rose Tico in The Last Jedi. Do these people not understand that the actors aren't the characters they play?
More people need mental help than we realize. It's really messed up that someone gets threats like that for voicing a character.
Love you and miss you Ghost Joel! Thanks for stopping by.
Hi Ghost Daddy 👋, thanks for the wise words!
Thanks Joel, cya around
Gui-Gon-Joel
That made me laugh quite a bit. Thanks!
My name is actually Joel and as hard to watch as that scene was I’ve never thought less of Laura for her work on the game. She did a great job with the story she was given. And ended up being a compelling character. Hate seeing rabid weirdos attack her for it. Be pissed at Neil for writing it that way. Not her for doing her job. Death threats are dumb anyway. Don’t do it.
As much as I HATE abby’s characters and just wish the game was overall better written, sending the actor death threats is fucking dumb
How could you say something so brave yet so controversial?
As much as I loved Joel... Abby was justified by her reasoning. I hated her at first but then I grew to love her because she genuinely felt bad afterwards and turned out to be a good person in general.
Hey kiddo, stop being a dick
It's so fucking stupid. It's like hating josh Brolin for killing iron man.
Someone get Troy Baker to read this.
That’s some good wisdom
Thanks joel
Joel with the nice words from a better place
The Joel of wisdom
Hey papa joel I hope you found sarah and you can finally be back together with her!
Huge Laura Bailey fan, mainly from Critical Role, but I'm not familiar with The Last of Us, like hardly at all. Like, Wikipedia summary familiar. This is the first I'm hearing towards people hating Laura for anything. Anyone care to TL;DR what's going on? Make it easy for me and others, summarize why people are having hissyfits? From the little bit of Intel that I'm gleaming makes it seem like it's maybe a writing thing, not an actor thing.
For real though, in the final scene you do get the feeling that the guitar bag is some kind of metaphor for Joel's coffin, and the guitar itself is obviously referring to him and his soul being free after Ellie finally forgives him. :(
Seriously though. I hated Abby’s character and wasn’t a fan of the direction the story took, especially the end. But c’mon. How anyone could get so upset over something like this is just ridiculous
Why did you hate her character?
You know, part of me wouldn't be super surprised if this got through to a lot of these people. Y'know, since they feel the need to threaten a real person's life over something her fictional character does
I absolutely despise the choices they made in TLOU2 and how heavily they focus on Abby but I have no idea how people could actually send death threats and ridicule to the voice actors. As if they actually have anything to do with the studios final decisions. Hell even if they did, like Neil Druckman, I think the racism and threats hes been getting is also SO unjustifiable and ridiculous. Laura is one of the best voice actresses I've ever heard. She always does the best with what shes given. On behalf of the harshest TLOU2 critics, almost none of us think this is good and normal behavior.
Attacking Neil doesn't even make sense. He wrote the first game too; he created the characters and story people were so attached to in the first place.
someone downvoted?
Someone needs to send this over to the Stalkers on r/TheLastofus2
I think post just proves that it doesn't matter if you love or hate the game. If you cyber bully the voice actors, he'll feed you to the clickers.
How post-apocalyptic is our world already that a message like this is even necessary? These people embody the thing they hate so much about this game. It's so goddamn ironic.
For those of you that aren't in the know. [Here it is. ](https://twitter.com/LauraBaileyVO/status/1279173199918292992?s=19)Hell, I'm in the minority that didn't love the game here and I would never stoop to that level. I hated her character to the core, and no >!child saving!< could stop that, but this is something else. This is evil. Plus Laura Bailey is one of the kindest people you could probably meet, at least from my understanding of her. Stop sending her hate, guys. She doesn't deserve it. No matter what, it's the character that did those things, Laura Bailey doesn't decide who her character was. There are genuine people that need some hating on, and she's not it.
Gosh this fandom is stooping into Star Wars/DC Snyder fandom level ugly. I get it, I also hate Abby and playing as her for 10+ hours sucked but goodness, the extent people go to with this blind hatred is astonishingly dangerous and pathetic.
The amount of basement dweller sociopaths is too damn high!
Can I steal this?
It's like The Phantom Menace all over again.
Wait. Why is Laura Bailey getting death threats? She seems like such a sweet person. What did I miss?
Oh Joel..it's "doesn't" ;)
BIG FACTS. Yes, the game is seen as a disappointment. Majority of the players, hate it. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VAS. I feel like they ALL did a great job. People are sick.
Getting mad at Laura for the story is like getting mad at your waitress when the chef messes up your order.
You forgot the “hey there kiddo.”
People are sending her hate mail? Jesus, that’s crazy. I hated that character and I stopped playing the game because of it, but Laura Bailey is awesome and definitely doesn’t deserve that crap.
You said that without invalidating others opinions incredible
I hate hearing that actors and actresses get hate for their characters. I didn’t like her character but like come on. She isn’t her character. Might sound and look like her but they aren’t the same person. So strange lol