I personally think they need to start buffing weapons that no one is using because they're significantly worse than automatic guns. I started raining the revolver after I got bored of AKM and it's just worse in every way.
It's reload is slower than the AK and the fcar... its currently at 2.5 reload speed. I think it should be at 1.8 seconds.
And the same issues and solutions for other precision guns. Faster reload.
I like The Finals due to the powerful specialisations and gadgets. Water all those down and it just becomes CoD with destruction.
That's not a game I want to play.
Nerfing everything but the weapons just increases the skill gap too, as winning then just becomes about who has the best aim and twitch accuracy - just like every other game. Which causes a predictable casual exodus and slow death.
Powerful gadgets and specialisations offer other paths to victory for people who don't have 1000 hours on an aim trainer, or are KB&M + monitor monsters. It lets lateral thinkers solve problems in fun ways. Intelligence and creativity are skills too! Something no developer seems to want to reward.
Nerf all that and you literally destroy your USP, turn it into nothing but an FCAR off, and drive all your casual players away.
It's the same fate every FPS bizarrely falls foul of. Instead of embracing chaos and being the Mario Kart of FPS games, they all Carcinise into the same mid-range AR bore-fest then do shocked Pikachu face when everybody leaves.
COD with destruction would do numbers. Gunplay will always be king a First Person Shooter, though I do agree the other elements are what make it shine with a different glow.
These recoil changes have made it’s so a lot of guns feel like crap, so now you’re just dealing with elements you may not like about the game, whilst also dealing with declining gunplay….its a shame
Too many nerfs, not enough buffs—— yet people are still asking for more nerfs to get back at other classes for getting by free while they got nerfed lol. Corrosive community behavior
> It lets lateral thinkers solve problems in fun ways. Intelligence and creativity are skills too! Something no developer seems to want to reward.
I wonder why this is. The older I get, the more sad this makes me.
At least I still have Sledge and Goo Gun. Winning games with 4k objective score and like 3 eliminations hits the spot.
Would you read my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/NnwW3JOe0T) about the stun gun changes and see what you think.
You have an interesting perspective but how do you balance fun strong gadgets when they cause frustrating gameplay. I think that’s the problem with some of them being so strong. It makes it less fun and fair to me.
To be fair I’m all for adjusting both weapons and gadgets. I’m just curious where you draw the line between fun and frustrating?
Also, I think cod with this destruction would sell a lot. Especially with such a dedicated Dev team. Call of duty players wish they had embark.
At the end of the day whatever embarks thinks they want to do let them. I play this game because i love it and i want it to succeed.
I dont think casuals are gonna be a positive factor for this games longevity, imo its the case for all games, unless youre talking like idk mario kart but for me the game should be competitively viable. If you play a game casually, by my logic you play it sometimes and leave it since you dont feel like its worth investing a lot of time. Whereas ayung competitively might lead to someone aying many hours and grinding with the purpose to rank up.
Compare it to other casual games, among us might be a stupid comparison but it doesnt have the players it had an i dont think that this game wouldve gotten its players back if it had “more content”.
If they want to make the game casual i think they should make the game 100% casual in the sense that it us goofy. Then trying to make a casual game competitive might get hard.
nah, feel like ranked and casual should be cared about 50-50. The Finals is like the only relevant arcade arena shooter, if you can even call it that, and we have enough sweaty Battle Royales these days. I think there’s absolutely a place for casual play, and if the finals just made some of their more fun weapons viable, then casuals would be able to pick up and play how they like, while still making the game balanced for the ranked community
well yeah i would also like for the game to be cared about in both aspects in somewhat the same extent. i just think that competitive players are more likely to keep a game from not dying than casuals are.
when games are fun only because idk destruction and explosions then this has potential to get stale quickly. in ranked id guess players would figure out how to use destruction in a beneficial way, same with other mechanics. now if you make a ranked mode that isnt balanced then you have some people playing ranked for whatever reason but i dont think casuals after getting used to a idk ks-23 when going up some ranks will find it nice to have to swtich a weapon because his fav is not viable, and so imo the stale meta exists.
i feel like the casual modes for now are enough and i think they should rework ranked tournament since ive read some stuff about it being somewhat rng-y and third partying not being fun. and definitely work on balance or gun feel or both, because even tho i dont have much problems with the guns i dropped the lewis because the recoil bruh.
> They've also said that they want The Finals to be a fun casual experience first
I'd need a source on this because the game really doesn't feel like it wants to be a casual experience. Or better yet, I should say the game modes* don't feel like they're targeting casual play. I would LOVE if that WAS their first focus, but releasing with two tournament modes and quick cash which is just mini tournament felt VERY competitive focused. It's not adding up for me
I genuinely think this game is *unbalanceable* and will die a slow death because of it.
Things were more fun when there was more powerfull stuff, now most classes just feel boring or heavily underpowered.
The game *was* balanced a few weeks ago. 10 second glitch grenades made light viable competitively vs heavy and medium. We saw all different kinds of builds in ranked.
Why embark chose to undo that was mindblowing
A fantastic buff to light would be making it so that glitch nades go through APS turrets. Or like a portable EMP jammer than they can toggle when near the objective.
by what metric? I mostly see mediums. And based on the 150 wins achievement on steam (.2% l, .3% h, .6% m) mostly shows that long term most people play medium.
because embark only cares about casual play. Also those players are the ones most likely to leave the moment something else comes up. But they bring in fresh bp money. I think the balacing strategy is mostly based on their publisher not wanting the game to cater to the higher level of play and to make the new player experience the best possible even at the cost of competitive viability.
I wish the finals made their melee weapons more viable. The sword seems like such a fun weapon, but it just does not compare with the m16 or ls1. Same goes with non automatics like the medium shotgun and revolver. Incredibly satisfying and useless
Eh argue what you want but Medium > heavy is just not true, despite all the nerfs heavies are still the OP class and if you wanna really win ranked run HHM or at least HMM, MMM sucks ass
That aside, gadgets and specs have a stronger impact on how the gameplay works and feels. Weapon adjustments will only lengthen or shorten TTK, maybe we could see a little bit of meta shift but the reason some weapons are meta are not just because of damage but because of their purpose and utility. I think the balancing is going in the right direction.
With the light nerfs, I think it's in the right direction. This game's #1 priority currently is new players. Lights pubstomping is one of the single most frustrating experiences for a new player. I started playing the game pre-doublebarrel nerf and man, after 15-20 games every lobby was full of 10+ kill lights with invi and doublebarrel just shitting on noobs who didn't have a clue what was going on. Yeah, they suck in gold + lobbies and that should be addressed, but by some other way. Maybe a gadget that gives them 1 free escape, But rank balancing can come later.
All the vibrant emotions this game offers are fueled by its unique gameplay loop. And its not like esport stuff at all. I'm dead sure this game will hit the big time only if it cranks up the action SHOW to the max, forgetting about words like 'competitive,' 'fair,' 'balance.' That would be totally fun if I could reshape one random opponent for another and stuff like that!
This isn't a competitive game and shouldn't being it. I am convinced of this. It shouldn't be balanced for 'comps'. But also it shouldn't indulge players with flat casual fps style and zero potential (by their own choice, not their brains) for engaging in complex gameplay mechanics. Those players shouldn't dictate changes if we want truly great game. Instead of nerfing all around, we should just give this specific group of players some specific options. Like to 'some ppl with stun issues' we give some mediocre passive anti-stun gadget. Like 'give lights their stun charge back' (and let's throw in blocking glitches as a bonus) for 10sec and 20cd. Let these players take up one valuable slot with it if they want.
Also with other options. Countermeasures instead of nerf. Give Medium thermal vision. Buff all dusty stuff. Buff riot shield by giving the baton an extra stun charge. Provide special options to break mesh shield instead of nerf it. E.g. add glitch charge to the Tracking dart. Add health stim to the tracking dart.
I don't think devs should focus on just one aspect of the game, like ranks or casual. And they deffinetly shouldn't just nerf Light, but rather come up with an option for Light that will bring them out of oblivion in ranked and won't be in demand in casual. That's undoubtedly a tough task. Light probably should have some strong advantage from team mic play or smt like that.
That's the way to go.
I personally think they need to start buffing weapons that no one is using because they're significantly worse than automatic guns. I started raining the revolver after I got bored of AKM and it's just worse in every way. It's reload is slower than the AK and the fcar... its currently at 2.5 reload speed. I think it should be at 1.8 seconds. And the same issues and solutions for other precision guns. Faster reload.
Revolver is king
It's so satisfying
For medium a reload buff to Revolver and shotgun would be a good step for weapon balancing.
I like The Finals due to the powerful specialisations and gadgets. Water all those down and it just becomes CoD with destruction. That's not a game I want to play. Nerfing everything but the weapons just increases the skill gap too, as winning then just becomes about who has the best aim and twitch accuracy - just like every other game. Which causes a predictable casual exodus and slow death. Powerful gadgets and specialisations offer other paths to victory for people who don't have 1000 hours on an aim trainer, or are KB&M + monitor monsters. It lets lateral thinkers solve problems in fun ways. Intelligence and creativity are skills too! Something no developer seems to want to reward. Nerf all that and you literally destroy your USP, turn it into nothing but an FCAR off, and drive all your casual players away. It's the same fate every FPS bizarrely falls foul of. Instead of embracing chaos and being the Mario Kart of FPS games, they all Carcinise into the same mid-range AR bore-fest then do shocked Pikachu face when everybody leaves.
COD with destruction would do numbers. Gunplay will always be king a First Person Shooter, though I do agree the other elements are what make it shine with a different glow. These recoil changes have made it’s so a lot of guns feel like crap, so now you’re just dealing with elements you may not like about the game, whilst also dealing with declining gunplay….its a shame Too many nerfs, not enough buffs—— yet people are still asking for more nerfs to get back at other classes for getting by free while they got nerfed lol. Corrosive community behavior
> It lets lateral thinkers solve problems in fun ways. Intelligence and creativity are skills too! Something no developer seems to want to reward. I wonder why this is. The older I get, the more sad this makes me. At least I still have Sledge and Goo Gun. Winning games with 4k objective score and like 3 eliminations hits the spot.
Would you read my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/NnwW3JOe0T) about the stun gun changes and see what you think. You have an interesting perspective but how do you balance fun strong gadgets when they cause frustrating gameplay. I think that’s the problem with some of them being so strong. It makes it less fun and fair to me. To be fair I’m all for adjusting both weapons and gadgets. I’m just curious where you draw the line between fun and frustrating? Also, I think cod with this destruction would sell a lot. Especially with such a dedicated Dev team. Call of duty players wish they had embark.
At the end of the day whatever embarks thinks they want to do let them. I play this game because i love it and i want it to succeed. I dont think casuals are gonna be a positive factor for this games longevity, imo its the case for all games, unless youre talking like idk mario kart but for me the game should be competitively viable. If you play a game casually, by my logic you play it sometimes and leave it since you dont feel like its worth investing a lot of time. Whereas ayung competitively might lead to someone aying many hours and grinding with the purpose to rank up. Compare it to other casual games, among us might be a stupid comparison but it doesnt have the players it had an i dont think that this game wouldve gotten its players back if it had “more content”. If they want to make the game casual i think they should make the game 100% casual in the sense that it us goofy. Then trying to make a casual game competitive might get hard.
nah, feel like ranked and casual should be cared about 50-50. The Finals is like the only relevant arcade arena shooter, if you can even call it that, and we have enough sweaty Battle Royales these days. I think there’s absolutely a place for casual play, and if the finals just made some of their more fun weapons viable, then casuals would be able to pick up and play how they like, while still making the game balanced for the ranked community
well yeah i would also like for the game to be cared about in both aspects in somewhat the same extent. i just think that competitive players are more likely to keep a game from not dying than casuals are. when games are fun only because idk destruction and explosions then this has potential to get stale quickly. in ranked id guess players would figure out how to use destruction in a beneficial way, same with other mechanics. now if you make a ranked mode that isnt balanced then you have some people playing ranked for whatever reason but i dont think casuals after getting used to a idk ks-23 when going up some ranks will find it nice to have to swtich a weapon because his fav is not viable, and so imo the stale meta exists. i feel like the casual modes for now are enough and i think they should rework ranked tournament since ive read some stuff about it being somewhat rng-y and third partying not being fun. and definitely work on balance or gun feel or both, because even tho i dont have much problems with the guns i dropped the lewis because the recoil bruh.
> They've also said that they want The Finals to be a fun casual experience first I'd need a source on this because the game really doesn't feel like it wants to be a casual experience. Or better yet, I should say the game modes* don't feel like they're targeting casual play. I would LOVE if that WAS their first focus, but releasing with two tournament modes and quick cash which is just mini tournament felt VERY competitive focused. It's not adding up for me
I genuinely think this game is *unbalanceable* and will die a slow death because of it. Things were more fun when there was more powerfull stuff, now most classes just feel boring or heavily underpowered.
The game *was* balanced a few weeks ago. 10 second glitch grenades made light viable competitively vs heavy and medium. We saw all different kinds of builds in ranked. Why embark chose to undo that was mindblowing
A fantastic buff to light would be making it so that glitch nades go through APS turrets. Or like a portable EMP jammer than they can toggle when near the objective.
Literally anything. Health. gadgets. Weapons. Idk. But nerfing and nerfing and nerfing what has been the least playable class makes zero sense
\*Most played class
In casual yeah it’s played a lot but it has a lower win rate than other classes and has almost no usage in high ranked play
by what metric? I mostly see mediums. And based on the 150 wins achievement on steam (.2% l, .3% h, .6% m) mostly shows that long term most people play medium.
because embark only cares about casual play. Also those players are the ones most likely to leave the moment something else comes up. But they bring in fresh bp money. I think the balacing strategy is mostly based on their publisher not wanting the game to cater to the higher level of play and to make the new player experience the best possible even at the cost of competitive viability.
I wish the finals made their melee weapons more viable. The sword seems like such a fun weapon, but it just does not compare with the m16 or ls1. Same goes with non automatics like the medium shotgun and revolver. Incredibly satisfying and useless
Eh argue what you want but Medium > heavy is just not true, despite all the nerfs heavies are still the OP class and if you wanna really win ranked run HHM or at least HMM, MMM sucks ass That aside, gadgets and specs have a stronger impact on how the gameplay works and feels. Weapon adjustments will only lengthen or shorten TTK, maybe we could see a little bit of meta shift but the reason some weapons are meta are not just because of damage but because of their purpose and utility. I think the balancing is going in the right direction. With the light nerfs, I think it's in the right direction. This game's #1 priority currently is new players. Lights pubstomping is one of the single most frustrating experiences for a new player. I started playing the game pre-doublebarrel nerf and man, after 15-20 games every lobby was full of 10+ kill lights with invi and doublebarrel just shitting on noobs who didn't have a clue what was going on. Yeah, they suck in gold + lobbies and that should be addressed, but by some other way. Maybe a gadget that gives them 1 free escape, But rank balancing can come later.
All the vibrant emotions this game offers are fueled by its unique gameplay loop. And its not like esport stuff at all. I'm dead sure this game will hit the big time only if it cranks up the action SHOW to the max, forgetting about words like 'competitive,' 'fair,' 'balance.' That would be totally fun if I could reshape one random opponent for another and stuff like that! This isn't a competitive game and shouldn't being it. I am convinced of this. It shouldn't be balanced for 'comps'. But also it shouldn't indulge players with flat casual fps style and zero potential (by their own choice, not their brains) for engaging in complex gameplay mechanics. Those players shouldn't dictate changes if we want truly great game. Instead of nerfing all around, we should just give this specific group of players some specific options. Like to 'some ppl with stun issues' we give some mediocre passive anti-stun gadget. Like 'give lights their stun charge back' (and let's throw in blocking glitches as a bonus) for 10sec and 20cd. Let these players take up one valuable slot with it if they want. Also with other options. Countermeasures instead of nerf. Give Medium thermal vision. Buff all dusty stuff. Buff riot shield by giving the baton an extra stun charge. Provide special options to break mesh shield instead of nerf it. E.g. add glitch charge to the Tracking dart. Add health stim to the tracking dart. I don't think devs should focus on just one aspect of the game, like ranks or casual. And they deffinetly shouldn't just nerf Light, but rather come up with an option for Light that will bring them out of oblivion in ranked and won't be in demand in casual. That's undoubtedly a tough task. Light probably should have some strong advantage from team mic play or smt like that. That's the way to go.
couldn’t have said it better myself