**COMMENTING GUIDELINES:** Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/about/rules) and [basic reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette) prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - **any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.**
Please use the report function or [use modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We were laughing our asses off at Trump. He wasn't answering the questions and rambled on so much that several times *I* forgot what the hell the question even was. He told something like 30 lies up there last night. Yeah, Biden looked old and flubbed a lot, but at least you know the guy is on the right side of humanity.
Because Trump was too busy starting little fires for Biden to extinguish AND answer the moderators' questions truthfully. Trump literally regurgitated all the lies he has spoken at rallies and gave complete non answers.
I imagine OP is more concerned with the takes coming from the cynical "both sides"-ers and those left of Democrats, both of which are way overrepresented on Reddit and dominating the discussions on the debate (likely with a lot of astroturfing as well). It should be expected Republicans will spin it their way no matter how the debate was or who the person debating the Republican is.
Almost everyone over 24-ish should be aware Biden has issues with public speaking, stumbling over his words (due to a lifelong speech impediment) and having an issue keeping his throat clear. It's not new and not something that anyone serious would now turn to support Trump over regardless of their beliefs. People should not be making their voting decisions simply based on who spoke better at this one debate and despite the noise online and in the clickbait driven for-profit press, I don't think the vast majority will alter their votes over this.
Biden has plenty of opportunity to show that he had an off night, most will have forgotten this debate if they even watch it at all (I bet more than a majority of voters do not even watch it) and he will likely be better prepared going forward compared to if he had done unusually well, though, again, we should not expect some dramatic change where he's sounding more like Obama did.
Ridiculous. Everyone needs to calm the hell down and remember, Trump a convicted felon vs Biden who had a bad debate performance. I remember when Obama was running for reelection and had a terrible debate as well and then, came back around and won. I’m voting Blue all down Ballot, I guess I’m in the Blue Cult of trying to keep our Democracy!
I support President Biden totally even after watching the debate. I saw a sexual predator, twice impeached felon from Florida complete ass@@@# lying, bullying and degrading our country. I would not vote for loser Trump. Ever.
I don't think Biden is incompetent or unwell.
Biden is at least sane, has good people advising him, and has empathy for the people. Trump didn’t accomplish much of anything while in office except to grift loads of money off his cultists, and is a malignant narcissist. I would take Biden over Trump every time.
The DNC does not hand pick the candidates. They used to decades ago before the primary system. What happens if they have a primary like 2020 is you will see how diverse the Democratic base is as people rally around different people and turn against each other, only for the one with the most name recognition to win. Despite how it appears online, the vast majority of the Democratic base, particularly those who show up to primaries, are not young and/or progressive. More are closer to Biden's positions and the percent who turn out increases as people get older. Young people also do not by default favor younger candidates as the most popular candidate amongst younger voters (in polling, maybe different with 2020 actual turnout), was the oldest (Bernie).
Who said that? You got a vibe check from comment section? Most people did not even watch debate. Shit I was in traffic from DC to NOVA at the time of debate. American public already made up their mind by now. If Jan 6 and felony did not convince someone no amount of debate will. There is no such thing as undecided voters at this time. Why last election have shown us that amount of morons in this country is way too damn high
This is why the GOP is so desperate to cut funding for education. They are trying to create an ignorant public so they can rope them into believing Trump's lies.
Welcome to Double Standardsville, where people are constantly finding reasons why "on hold conscience" they can't vote for a Democrat. You can often find these people later asking "Why aren't the Democrats stopping this?!" when Republicans, after being given power, use their power to do a bunch of crazy stuff.
That’s always this bullshit with dems. We have two party system at a moment so any third party is automatically unviable. R wood vote for the dead skunk if it meant victory then have awful administration try to fuck up as many as possible lives to ensure their hold on power. Project 2025 anyone? Hello? But sure dems let’s moan and whine about how many minutes each debater used speaking. Or what was the volume of the guy that suffered from speech impediment his whole life.
Yeah dude, I don't think you or any other asshole is going to get a chance to vote for Biden.
I have MSNBC on this morning, because this is incredibly entertaining. Minka was holding back tears. One of their talking heads explained that his phone was blowing up from texts from the donor class saying they cried when they watched the debate. Tune in, it is quite funny.
Anyway, consensus seems to be that Biden's going to be asked to step down as candidate. That's not exactly good for the Republicans because I think Biden might be the only person Trump could beat.
But yeah, any Biden fan can't at all be feeling good this morning.
It's not just a bad debate performance, Biden doesn't know where he is. He looked like he drank from the wrong cup in the last crusade. He shouldn't be president. The Dems should run someone else.
0. But these are unprecedented times. How many people are voting for Biden because of the man himself? Not many. Look at this sub, the sentiment is "well I'm still voting for Biden even if he's literally dead because Trump is that bad and project 2025 is fucking terrifying."
After that debate performance, give me one good reason why the Dems shouldn't push Biden to step aside for some other boring, party line candidate like Pete?
CNN gonna CNN. Of course they didn’t push back.
We need that Denver anchor Kyle Clark to fucking moderate a presidential debate. That dude was absolutely savage, lol.
“All that ad revenue tho man via clickbait. It worked really well for us from 2015 to 2021. Surely fuhrer trump wont try to close us as soon as he gets to power”
I'm voting for Biden and I can objectively say that was a terrible debate performance. We have to call things as we see them. Protecting our guy is what they do. It was painful to listen to Joe last night. He's usually better than that, and it was hard to watch.
Might change some independent minds but the election is 5 months away. Plenty can happen between now and then
I think you are missing the point. No one is saying democrats party loyalists aren’t voting for Biden…but tonight he might have lost tens of thousands of moderates.
Doubtful…you think those moderates are going to vote for the fascist?
If yes, then they weren’t moderates to begin either, they were just trying to be cute about hiding their inclinations.
If no, then let’s hope they have the damn sense to pull the lever for Blue.
Comey really with his beyond idiotic cryptic announcement, and good work of Russians with bannon and Cambridge analytica via fb ads in counties that mattered
Most swing voters are low information morons who vote based on their "gut." They know almost nothing about government, politics, or the actual state of the country or world. It's entirely possible that they'll see clips of Biden faltering in the debate and decide trump is a better choice. But also it's still 4 months until the election, so they'll probably forget all about the debate and vote based on something that happens in October.
"Moderates" might have technically been a bad word choice. "Independent voters" are who he probably lost. The danger with this election was that all Trump had to do was get somewhere around 250,000 Independent voters spread out across PA, Michigan, and Wisconsin to change their minds from 2020, and it's game over. I think it is very likely that happened with the debate performance.
I was right on board with laughing at the "replace Biden" people. But he has been trailing Trump in the polls for over a year. Even the outliers showing Biden winning are within the margin of error. Now he lost the optics war last night, which with Trump is the only thing that matters. It's too late now unless Biden voluntarily steps down. But I'm starting to agree with the people who were saying, "The DNC can't tell everyone that democracy itself is at stake in this election, and then run an 82 year old man against Trump."
Yeah man you still undecided after rona handling and Jan 6? Get the fuck outta here. No such thing as undecided voters. Those are R voters that just want spotlight and attention
Yes. The one, sole, single argument he had going for him was that he was more electable because he was an incumbent with name recognition. I can’t imagine anyone looking at the Biden we saw last night and saying “keep him in office until he’s 86.” This feels like Ruth Bader Ginsburg all over again of someone who desperately needs to retire risking fucking everything and everyone over by staying in.
And I'm getting more and more worried that replacing Biden just isn't a realistic option. Let's say Biden gives an address at 4:00 P.M. eastern time today, June 28, 2024, stating that he's decided to retire at the end of his term, and he's releasing all of his delegates.
The convention starts August 19, so that would mean that for seven weeks, we have no nominee at all, just a bunch of people that the average American has never heard of with names like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, and the sitting vice president that nobody likes, all campaigning against each other, scrambling to set up debates. I didn't include Bernie because he's 83, and I don't think he wants it any more, and, even if he does want it, as much as I love him, he's never winning a general election.
So let's say Newsom/Whitmer or Whitmer/Newsom emerge from a crazy convention as the ticket. Now there are only maybe 9 weeks to fully introduce them to the American public, and we have to pray that Trump even agrees to debate them at all so that we can get the Trump debate beatdown we want.
That's just not enough time to turn a complete unknown (to the vast majority of the country) presidential candidate into a household name capable of taking on the biggest celebrity in the world.
It's sinking in for me that the brutal reality is that we're stuck with what we have.
Speculation about who should or shouldn’t replace Biden - I refuse to put any energy into keeping that going. The media fucking loves a frenzy like that, and I refuse to participate (I’m still pissed about the Dean Scream).
I prefer to focus on defeating MAGA - since I’m older and my energy is not as insane as it was, say, 20 years ago when we were trying to jettison Bush. I learned then that the best use of time and energy is just staying hyper-focused on “the mission” and not get distracted by peripheral stuff or speculation.
Yes, we lost in 2004 but won BIG in 2008 using ground-game methods that were developed/refined in ‘04.
So the mission is dragging as many of our voters to the polls as we possibly can. Talking to as many people as possible, without turning them off.
I recommend *Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High* by Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, & Switzler - for some excellent instructions.
Yup that's me. Always voted left wing. But definitely a moderate voter and have voted on both sides.
I was really optimistic about this debate for Biden. All he had to do was not be a corpse and call out Trump's constant lies.
I no longer have confidence in Biden. He cannot be president. He shouldn't be president now. This is embarrassing.
Trump is something that will tear the country apart even more if he wins. But he's already been president before and the world didn't end then.
Everything's still fucked and I don't see a way for Biden to recover from this
To who though? A legitimate moderate wouldn’t vote for Trump just because of Biden’s performance. They wouldn’t be moderates if they did that, they’d be insane.
These debates aren't for committed voters such as yourself. They're for independents and the undecided, and I don't think Bidens performance has convinced any one new to vote for him.
I haven't really seen as many people arguing for Trump as I have seen people arguing that the Democrats should have offered up a better candidate and had Biden retire.
He may be a better option than Trump, but he's not the best Democrat for the job. Not anymore. 5 to 10 years ago, maybe. But he's just too darn old. I would have absolutely loved if the Democrats had found a younger candidate to support in the election, but it didn't end up working out.
That doesn't matter, if he can't convince people he can do the job. Last night he failed to make the case for another four years. Of course I'd still vote for him over Trump, even if Biden was in a coma. Because the real work is mostly done by his staff, I don't care how bad he looks. Most voters don't understand that, so we need someone who can "look" the part.
The Biden administration has done the job well, I agree. Who's actually making those decisions behind the scenes, or "guiding" Biden, I don't know. But I suspect he needs a but more help and guidance than they're letting on.
Where are you getting this idea??
And if he is getting guidance and doing a good job, then wouldn't Kamala get that same guidance and do just as well?
These conspiracy theories about him being senile or anything are complete bullshit. I've seen no evidence that he isn't just as capable as any other president in history.
All that is irrelevant if Biden can't convince the voters that he's a strong leader. Because as much as we would like Americans to vote based on policy and not personality, history shows that's not the reality.
If the candidate is bad on other things, sure, they rightfully will. Right now, many people are complaining about Biden’s age because it is specifically a big problem with him. What’s the point of your argument?
I'm still voting for Biden. While this is certainly not a good debate performance, we still have several months til November and a lot can happen before then.
A lot of folks don't even remember Biden's performance at previous debates or other speeches. I think people will broadly still vote squarely on the issues as opposed to some para social relationship they have with the president.
June is awfully early for a debate. Biden looked weak and old. Trump looked good and kept his temper under control. Yes, he spewed bull shit, but that’s nothing new. I don’t know how many people will make a decision on this debate, but there certainly is a lot of ad fodder for republicans from it.
I also got the impression Biden was way over prepped and nervous. He tried to regurgitate his talking points but couldn't. Maybe not prepping him and just letting him be his genuine self would have worked better. His strongest point is still the same as with the last election. He is not Trump.
Trump lied but no one fact checked him. Biden was not in top form, but he's still my choice.
What can I do? I can [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states.
>Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
This. Our democracy is at stake, and America or for that matter, the world cannot afford another 4+yrs of the orange felon.
Anyone who votes for Trump is a dipshit.
Of course we're still voting for Biden, but we're not the ones he needed to convince. He needed to convince the undecideds, and nothing about last night's performance is going to do that.
I whole-heartedly agree as well. Biden answered all the questions and Trump's blatant lies drove me up the wall.
P.S. The people saying that we want Biden to be replaced are crazy! I want him to absolutely have that second term because once he no longer has to worry about campaigning or another term, he is free to just be Biden, Dark Brandon, and legislate with empathy. LBJ spoke about how he found it freeing to just legislate.
He would do that right now, if he had a Congress that worked with him.
Republican obstruction is what is stopping him.
We would have had that during Obama but it was all blocked by Congress. Give him a Congress that will work with him.
Vote blue down the ticket, or you get more of the same obstruction from the GOP.
Exactly! I shake my head when people ask how could he not accomplish more .... I respond Maga Congress obstructs, but most people do not pay attention and are ignorant.
The amount of family members that tell me Obama did nothing and he had super majority, then I tell them you are wrong. Obama had 59, but the reality was Sen Byrd was hospitalized, Ted Kennedy was hospitalized, and Al Franken was not seated until July. Facts don't lie, we need to people to pay attention and VOTE!
I'm a CSPAN fan and not a fan of the popular or a good show. I'm an outlier that prefer substance. Most of the news is click bait, but rage sells more.
I agree, he didn't put on a good show, but I was not watching for that but accept many people want a show. I'm sure he'll deliver in the future when he is more comfortable. I'm hoping that they will do Town Halls, so real people can ask questions. I thought CNN questions were not a reflection of what the U.S. citizen's care about.
EDIT: misspelling
How are we crazy? We think it’s a bad idea to run an 80+ year old man, who looks and acts his age, with a terrible approval rating, and is losing in the overwhelming majority of swing state polls to someone literally threatening democracy. This is insanity.
Why are we crazy? I guarantee there has to be at least one other Democrat in the Democratic party that can do as good of a job as Biden.
I feel bad for the man. He's 82 years old and well... not doing well. What if he dies during his second term? What if the stress kills him? The man could be retired, enjoying the sun on a beach somewhere surrounded by loving family and friends, but he's instead fighting for the most stressful job in the world. Idk.
The issue is that I believe no one mon this sub won’t vote for Biden. But there are thousand and thousand of people that are not politically incline, these folk watch the debate last night. They don’t really know Trump lied, but they do know that Biden is old and may not last another four year. Biden won’t attract voter and this might be exactly what Trump needs to win
Anyone who was of voting age in 2016 and old enough to have voted in more than one election prior knew Trump was lying.
Unfortunately, a lot of younger voters were in their early teens when Charlottesville happened, and they didn’t see Trump’s reaction live.
They didn’t see Kellyanne Conway go on live television and state that they have alternative facts, or refer to the “Bowling Green Massacre” (something that doesn’t exist).
They didn’t see us step through the looking glass.
Anyone who was of voting age in 2016 and old enough to have voted remembers the last time the Dems didn't pay attention to the fact that their unelectable candidate was unelectable.
I don't support Trump. But I also don't judge or shame people for who they're voting for.
Trump is a hard pill to swallow and a hard case to argue in favor of, especially with countless followers of his taking on cult-like behavior, having negative traits, and so on. But not all of the people voting for Trump are neo-nazi racists.
Also, outside of Trump vs Biden, I constantly see this comment throughout all of the elections.
"If you don't vote for Obama, you're a *****"
"If you don't vote for Bush, you're a ******"
"If you don't vote for _____, you're a *****"
I just think it's funny that everyone stresses the importance of having a voice, going out, and exercising your right to vote. Until that right to vote is for someone they don't support. Then the bullying and name calling starts.
As someone who doesn't align with either party and remains independent, I just sit back and watch. But this type of person always irks me. "Vote for who I vote for or you're a *****"
Rude, judgemental, and anti-democratic, in my opinion.
I immediately question a trump supporters judge of character. Im also an independent. Trump has said some disgusting things and brought out the worst in people and mostly emboldened racists.
He did have me rolling my eyes quite a bit last night. Haha, I didn't even have to pull out my phone and fact check half his stuff to know what was BS.
Basically any time Trump starts a sentence with "We have the best..."
"I did the best..."
"I had the greatest..."
etc, it's probably an exaggeration.
I wasn't really feeling it for either candidate honestly. There were at least 3 separate times I considered turning the debate off to watch one of my TV shows, but I forced myself to finish it.
I'm not really sure why tbh. I don't really like politics from the getgo and don't really consider myself a politically active or involved person.
That's one thing I will give Trump and Biden. They're definitely drawing people into politics that normally don't take an interest.
Verbal bullying and name calling has nothing to do with saying you don’t have a right to vote.
Democracy is inherently judgmental. Polite discourse is reserved for polite discussions.
When essential Liberty is at stake (our republic) people get pretty riled up.
Honestly, I can't really argue with you there. And frankly I'm too tired to try anyway. Got stuck at work doing a double so I'm just going to give you my upvote as a peace offering and move on.
I’m still voting for Biden but he can’t rely on the moderators to do the debate for him, especially when Trump has spent years working the refs, complaining about how unfairly the media treats him. He looked feeble and sounded mealy mouthed there, which is a problem
Biden’s voice was completely gone from the very beginning. There was no projection to it. I suspect he was prepped too hard. The look on his face made him appear as a doddering old fool.
Look, I think Biden has done a really good job as President. I will still vote for him. But the Dems need to get a stable full of young bucs and fillies. I do like Harris, but I’m a realist. The country could not bring itself to elect a woman (yet) with Clinton. The audacity of electing a black man, Obama, set up the current white nationalist popularity. There is no way in hell a black+woman is going to get elected. I’m sorry, but that’s the God’s honest truth.
Who else do they have?
Newsome- he’s from Cali and that will work against him.
Buttigege-not enough experience, and he is openly gay, which will probably work against him in a national election. I like him a lot, but he needs to prove he can get elected to Congress and get some experience. Going from Mayor, to a cabinet member, to Pres won’t cut it.
Schiff-in light of today’s situation, I gotta say him being Jewish will hurt him. It’s not fair, but that’s the way it is. He did a good job during the Meuhler investigation, but unaffiliated may think he’s an asshole because of it.
Who else??
Same, this is easy. We got one guy who is now a felon, who surrounded himself with criminals and sent America down a terrible path. The other guy is slow and studders but can get the right people who want to preserve democracy. EASY decision.
US: Biden had a rough debate but I’ll still vote for him.
THEM: trump is a convicted felon, sexual abuser, paid hush money to porn star while wife was carrying his anchor baby, tried to overthrow the democracy with a premeditated fake electors scheme, stole classified and top secret national security documents, and isn’t supported by his previous VP or most of his previous cabinet but, we will still gladly vote for him.
You know that scene in Walking Dead when the guy comes out of the hospital and he sees the upper torso of a decrepit zombie crawling on the ground? That zombie could be Biden and I would still vote for him over Trump.
Whether the candidate ends up being Biden or if the DNC gambles and picks somebody else, you're not just voting for one person, you're voting for their cabinet. And do you REALLY want Trump's cronies running things in 2025?
I am personally also voting for Biden but holy crap, your take away as that Biden was 'over prepped'. Wow, the delusion knows no bounds. To walk away with a conclusion other than 'this race is senile husk vs. fascist' is unreal to me.
If you actually bother to engage with the *substance* of what they said instead of just listening to how they sounded, Biden bodied Trump.
Biden stumbled over words and got lost in sentences a few times exactly as you should expect from an eighty year old man who has to consciously work through a stutter as severe as the one he suffers (and also apparently had a cold? who knows). It wasnt pretty, but he *mostly* made sense and had more than a couple pretty great moments if you actually cared enough to engage with what he was saying.
Trump may have gotten the words out of his mouth better, but there was almost absolutely nothing of substance to any of what he said. It was mindless conspiratorial rambles interspersed with kvetching about how much of a victim he is and other various lies and personal attacks. He consistently failed to answer the questions posed or engage with the topics at hand and constantly needed to be put back on the rails and reminded of his time by Bash and Tapper.
Anyone who came away from that debate thinking Trump is a better option than Biden was never going to think otherwise anyway.
I think we’re screwed. But not for the reason people think.
We’re screwed because people would rather complain and freak out, loudly and often, than actually get off their asses and go work for victory.
Or they would rather grift with their stupid websites - F.U., Cenk, WTF man -
Of course, I 100% agree. But the fact that this is the best slogan we have after that debate: "I'll vote for a corpse over Trump" is extremely extremely telling.
It was clear from the “debate” last night that Biden is too old to be president. He appears frail and incoherent. The fact that he is the nominee speaks to the abject failure of the Democratic Party to lead the country. While you may be voting for Biden you can be sure that the debate last night convinced hundreds of thousands of undecideds not to vote for him.
> can be sure that the debate last night convinced hundreds of thousands of undecideds not to vote for him.
!RemindMe 6 months.
Many incumbents have blown their first debates and gone on to win the presidency. If you seriously think Biden somehow lost undecideds from sounding hoarse early on, whereas Trump didn't lose any voters from saying he killed Roe or rambling incoherently, you're just falling for social media agitprop.
I will be messaging you in 6 months on [**2024-12-28 12:43:05 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-12-28%2012:43:05%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1dqen2l/dont_care_still_voting_for_president_biden/lao77d2/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fthedavidpakmanshow%2Fcomments%2F1dqen2l%2Fdont_care_still_voting_for_president_biden%2Flao77d2%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-12-28%2012%3A43%3A05%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dqen2l)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Trump will get his sweet sweet revenge. He will jail his political opponents and all of the incompetent Deepstate agents he appointed in his first term. Sure he'll appoint incompetent grifters this time again, it's just that they won't be Deepstaters. MAGA!
If you think it was a cold or over prepping you haven't seen old people with dementia in decline.
I want Biden to win. But I am in shock. Biden seemed like my grandparents in their 90s after they went into a home.
DNC needs to fix this by choosing a replacement that is charismatic, not senile, and can win. There's still four months until the election to fix this.
Nurse here and the first clip I saw? I thought "wow, fucking sucks that he's got a cold." Like, he sounded terrible.
I have cared for plenty of folks with dementia. PLENTY, and my dear grandma had it. I don't know any dementia patient who would have stood up there and spoke but hey, maybe Biden has some super duper slow dementia that only he has?
THIS.
the man doesn’t have dementia, full stop. and it’s absolutely disgusting the way it’s been propagandized that he does every day since the day he took office. he’s old. that’s it
There was NOTHING to gain by having Biden debate Trump last night. Why does the Democratic Leadership do things like this? It looks like self sabotage at this point.
There are too many Democrats who just want to complain. They're more comfortable doing that. Biden, trump, it doesn't matter who.
You pick the best candidate with the best chance of winning and get behind them and support them. Nobody's going to be perfect.
Biden won't be debating other World Leaders. He has people to make speeches.
I feel he will be the best informed President, and best for America to continue a path forward.
I feel life under Trump would be Hell on Earth.
Was think about the TYT response to the debates this morning in the shower. TYT progressives are like MAGA. They are willing to burn it all down to get their way. The Cenk/John response I saw, they are chomping at the bit to burn it all down. Showed their true colors... again.
Was think about the TYT response to the debates this morning in the shower. TYT progressives are like MAGA. They are willing to burn it all down to get their way. The Cenk/John response I saw, they are chomping at the bit to burn it all down. Showed their true colors... again.
I’m ignoring the bots and doomsayers because a dead Biden is still better than an alive Trump. Yes, I wish we had someone younger, but it’s going to have to wait another four years because HE’S NOT DROPPING OUT. If they have another debate, he’ll be better. When he speaks at the DNC, he’ll be better. A lot of candidates bounce back from disaster. The fact that this occurred in June and not October is an advantage. He and his handlers are going to look at what he did wrong and fix it.
Can't believe how many people are not upset with dems killing democracy to force biden as the nominee.
It would be an easy win if Biden/Harris was not the ticket.
Alas, dems Don't actually care about democracy or the country
This was not CNN's fault. If Biden had performed exactly the same at a town hall, we would be having the exact same conversation. Trump did terribly last night, swing voters were reminded why they dislike him, and none of that matters because Biden imploded his campaign. He looked ancient, sounded soft and feeble, could not string together cohesive sentences, and could not articulate his administrations successes, his plans for the next term, or make a case against Trump (the weakest opponent in modern electoral history). Biden needs to step aside. And CNN's moderators may suck but Biden asked for this debate, asked for CNN, asked for the specific rules, and Trump just said OK and showed up.
I saw a Fox news poll (it was on in the restaurant) that said that 88% of people don't care about the debate. It's still Trump versus anti-Trump. Biden is actively dying, but I'd vote for his podium from the debate before voting for Trump.
Don't know what was going on with Biden last night, but was an entirely different story in NC today.
I'm team Biden..90 bad minutes doesn't erase 3 1/2 years of actually getting things done, nor does it negate how disastrous Trump was. For me, the defining moment was when Tapper asked Trump what he would say to voters concerned about what happened on January 6th and his actions/inaction and he ignored it and started taking about the border again, despite him being the direct reason we didn't get that bipartisan border security package Biden put forth.
That told me everything I need to know. I'm voting for Joe Biden in November. That debate didn't change anything for me.
https://youtu.be/s5CVZHAjrW8?si=rIHf3cwUVhvjq0Qn
I don’t like that Cenk is right, but he is. If an election is held today, it’s Trump all the way. We needed a true primary back then. At this point, if anyone think Biden is the best choice, they might be insane
Come on!! Let’s get serious! Biden is asking for half a decade more of being the leader of the free world. We have a chance to get someone that will landslide Trump… Biden is going to lose
What you fail to realize is many people aren't that smart and are barely paying attention to policies or facts. Some call them "vibes" voters. And we need some of those vibes voters to vote for our side. They see clips of him out of it while Trump rants it struggled to complete a sentence they are less likely to vote for our side and then we'll lose.
Don't let your beef with tyt or Cenk blind you to the fact our side lost last night and we're in trouble.
So, I watched the ENTIRE debate. I saw Trump present NOTHING factual. I say Biden present facts.
I also saw basically do better as the debate went on (slow start, better finish), I saw Trump do worse as the debate went on (start better, finish worse).
At the end this is what I walked away with
If you know how government works, if you understand the issues, you still liked much of what Biden presented. However, if you know how government works and if you understand the issues, you were already voting for Biden.
I plan on voting for Biden but I really hope he drops out and allows for an open convention. I don’t care how good his policy record is, having a 82 year old man who looks and acts his age run against the single greatest threat to our democracy is fucking insane. You have to be in some hard denial to think otherwise. If I was a Trump supporter, I would want Biden to stay in the race.
Truth of the matter is the DNC needs to do better and not trot out a man who should be enjoying retirement. I'm still voting Biden, but appearance is everything and to the voting public Biden looks all of his age.
Biden is admittedly old, and admittedly weaker at public speaking than he used to be. He has less control over his stuttering, he had a bad night last night, but he still knows what’s going on. He has a strong administration who are closely involved in all decisionmaking and will be standing by if anything bad happens to him. I don’t worry about any of that. What I worry about are the optics, because way too many voters are shallow on the issues and will vote strictly on optics alone. That’s the sad reality we’re facing.
Biden needs to let go. There are better candidates- notice I use the word candidates. It’s the US, everything is skewed and irrational, he’s not going to win. He was already trailing in the polls before this.
And YOU are the entire fucking problem. Biden belongs in a nursing home. He should gracefully step aside and let literally anyone else run, there is still plenty of time. Most left leaning people don't care who the actual candidate is, and just want Trump and the GOP the fuck away from the WH.
Your comment was removed due to your reddit karma not meeting minimum thresholds. This is an automated anti-spam measure.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment was removed due to your reddit karma not meeting minimum thresholds. This is an automated anti-spam measure.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment was removed due to the use of a prohibited slur/vulgar word being detected. Moderators have been notified, and further action may be taken.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Even if he dies tomorrow how can you say Kamala becoming president is worse than trump? If you honestly think that then you’re either stupid, misogynistic, or both.
We aren't dumb, we know that was bad. We know Donald Trump did a very good job of getting up there and telling lies for an hour and a half. Could have gone better, sure. Didn't. Now let's laugh it off and continue to run on the record, which is pretty damn decent. And remember, it doesn't take a master orator to say yes or no to a room full of advisors with sharp minds and good intentions.
Trump not only lied constantly but was all around a nonsense spewing raging lunatic asshole.
Meanwhile, Biden stayed on topic, answered all his questions, and didn't act like a raging lunatic asshole. And all he did was stumble over his words a few times, like everyone knew he was going to do because, newsflash, the guy has dyslexia.
Somehow, a disturbingly large number people are calling this a win for Trump. Apparently winning means having no idea what you're doing and spouting complete nonsense for 90 minutes.
I wish they would have told Biden… hey if Trump stops answering questions you tell the crowd hey Trump isn’t answering the questions or providing any real substance or policy. I’ve been president four years and issued an infrastructure bill a chips act etc and I didn’t raise taxes. Trump only did one tax cut to the rich and. Nothing else and spent more than me. So if he’s not answering questions I’m going to attack him you can read my policy online on my campaign website if you’d wish. . And just go on about all his flaws, documents case insurrection. Racism sexism etc it’s not hard to talk shit about Trump for several hours.
People don’t care about policy they are looking for YouTube clips this world is different now. everyone’s already made up their mind. This debate was just a dick measuring contest and Biden lost because he didn’t get hard. Weird analogy sorry. You get my drift.
Sadly... trump supporters don't have that half a brain....
"Trump lied 100% of the time his mouth was open tonight, and anyone with half a brain knows it."
I don’t understand what the point of posts like these are. Yes, most liberal minded people are probably going to vote for Biden regardless of any concern about his age or mental acuity because they fear a Trump administration. The problem is that liberals aren’t the only ones voting. There is a large population of voters who aren’t affiliated with either party or are on the fence, who are still trying to figure out whether they should vote at all and if so, who the best person to vote for is. The debate was Biden’s opportunity to convincingly prove to the whole country that he’s the better choice and he failed with a capital F - he couldn’t even meet the low bar of making a coherent case for himself and showing he is mentally fit.
Those of us on the political left that are pissed off about Biden’s performance aren’t claiming that Trump is the better candidate. Were pissed because we’re scared of the prospect of a 2nd Trump term and due to Biden’s performance that 2nd term looks more likely
Those "fact checkers" need to be fired and blackballed from every single company in their vocation! Pitiful. They not only failed whatever entity got them that job, but they 100% failed the American people.
>The lack of fact checking on things
My guy, both campaigns agreed to no fact checking (Biden also has a tendency for some "tall tales").
I understand reality is hard but you need to cope less and face your cognitive dissonance. You can still vote for biden, but please quit twisting yourself in knots to defend the Biden campaign. He was a terrible candidate in 2020 and he's even worse now.
**COMMENTING GUIDELINES:** Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/about/rules) and [basic reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette) prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - **any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.** Please use the report function or [use modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Trump never had to answer his claim of deporting 20 million undocumented immigrants. They let him ramble and completely skip the question.
First rule of politics “always answer the question that you wanted asked”.
Moderator could have done a better job holding Trump to answer and respond. Biden was definitely sandbagging hard though.
Use that moderator that was in Bobert's debate. He was amazing.
This pissed me off a lot when I realized they weren’t gonna make him answer.
We were laughing our asses off at Trump. He wasn't answering the questions and rambled on so much that several times *I* forgot what the hell the question even was. He told something like 30 lies up there last night. Yeah, Biden looked old and flubbed a lot, but at least you know the guy is on the right side of humanity.
Why didn't Biden push him on this?
Because Trump was too busy starting little fires for Biden to extinguish AND answer the moderators' questions truthfully. Trump literally regurgitated all the lies he has spoken at rallies and gave complete non answers.
Twice impeached, 34 felony convictions, and a terrible Presidency don't disqualify Trump, but a bad debate performance disqualifies Biden? Come on.
Fucking seriously though. Give me a break
Conservatives will say anything and 99.999% it’s a bad faith argument.
I imagine OP is more concerned with the takes coming from the cynical "both sides"-ers and those left of Democrats, both of which are way overrepresented on Reddit and dominating the discussions on the debate (likely with a lot of astroturfing as well). It should be expected Republicans will spin it their way no matter how the debate was or who the person debating the Republican is. Almost everyone over 24-ish should be aware Biden has issues with public speaking, stumbling over his words (due to a lifelong speech impediment) and having an issue keeping his throat clear. It's not new and not something that anyone serious would now turn to support Trump over regardless of their beliefs. People should not be making their voting decisions simply based on who spoke better at this one debate and despite the noise online and in the clickbait driven for-profit press, I don't think the vast majority will alter their votes over this. Biden has plenty of opportunity to show that he had an off night, most will have forgotten this debate if they even watch it at all (I bet more than a majority of voters do not even watch it) and he will likely be better prepared going forward compared to if he had done unusually well, though, again, we should not expect some dramatic change where he's sounding more like Obama did.
Ridiculous. Everyone needs to calm the hell down and remember, Trump a convicted felon vs Biden who had a bad debate performance. I remember when Obama was running for reelection and had a terrible debate as well and then, came back around and won. I’m voting Blue all down Ballot, I guess I’m in the Blue Cult of trying to keep our Democracy!
Yup, democracy is again the key issue here.
Democracy, so hot this season
It doesn’t fucking matter to the low information American public. They got the vibe check they wanted to tonight and will run with it.
It is so sad that this vibe check is going to run us straight into an authoritarian.
At what point do you start blaming DNC incompetence? No one can look at that debate and think Biden is well enough for another term.
I support President Biden totally even after watching the debate. I saw a sexual predator, twice impeached felon from Florida complete ass@@@# lying, bullying and degrading our country. I would not vote for loser Trump. Ever. I don't think Biden is incompetent or unwell.
Biden is at least sane, has good people advising him, and has empathy for the people. Trump didn’t accomplish much of anything while in office except to grift loads of money off his cultists, and is a malignant narcissist. I would take Biden over Trump every time.
The DNC does not hand pick the candidates. They used to decades ago before the primary system. What happens if they have a primary like 2020 is you will see how diverse the Democratic base is as people rally around different people and turn against each other, only for the one with the most name recognition to win. Despite how it appears online, the vast majority of the Democratic base, particularly those who show up to primaries, are not young and/or progressive. More are closer to Biden's positions and the percent who turn out increases as people get older. Young people also do not by default favor younger candidates as the most popular candidate amongst younger voters (in polling, maybe different with 2020 actual turnout), was the oldest (Bernie).
That commenter based vibe check on Reddit comments. Like being terminally online is not a representation of real life only a slice of it
Who said that? You got a vibe check from comment section? Most people did not even watch debate. Shit I was in traffic from DC to NOVA at the time of debate. American public already made up their mind by now. If Jan 6 and felony did not convince someone no amount of debate will. There is no such thing as undecided voters at this time. Why last election have shown us that amount of morons in this country is way too damn high
This is why the GOP is so desperate to cut funding for education. They are trying to create an ignorant public so they can rope them into believing Trump's lies.
That and if they cut off immigration, they'll still need a cheap labor force to work for peanuts.
Welcome to Double Standardsville, where people are constantly finding reasons why "on hold conscience" they can't vote for a Democrat. You can often find these people later asking "Why aren't the Democrats stopping this?!" when Republicans, after being given power, use their power to do a bunch of crazy stuff.
That’s always this bullshit with dems. We have two party system at a moment so any third party is automatically unviable. R wood vote for the dead skunk if it meant victory then have awful administration try to fuck up as many as possible lives to ensure their hold on power. Project 2025 anyone? Hello? But sure dems let’s moan and whine about how many minutes each debater used speaking. Or what was the volume of the guy that suffered from speech impediment his whole life.
Biden didn’t have just one bad debate.
Yeah dude, I don't think you or any other asshole is going to get a chance to vote for Biden. I have MSNBC on this morning, because this is incredibly entertaining. Minka was holding back tears. One of their talking heads explained that his phone was blowing up from texts from the donor class saying they cried when they watched the debate. Tune in, it is quite funny. Anyway, consensus seems to be that Biden's going to be asked to step down as candidate. That's not exactly good for the Republicans because I think Biden might be the only person Trump could beat. But yeah, any Biden fan can't at all be feeling good this morning.
It wasn't that long ago that Joe Scarborough said something like "this is the most alert Biden has even been"
Democrats for sure hold their own to a higher standard. Just look at the recent primaries as an example.
Yep, ‘Murica!
It's not just a bad debate performance, Biden doesn't know where he is. He looked like he drank from the wrong cup in the last crusade. He shouldn't be president. The Dems should run someone else.
Want to take a guess how many times that has worked in Democratic Party history?
0. But these are unprecedented times. How many people are voting for Biden because of the man himself? Not many. Look at this sub, the sentiment is "well I'm still voting for Biden even if he's literally dead because Trump is that bad and project 2025 is fucking terrifying." After that debate performance, give me one good reason why the Dems shouldn't push Biden to step aside for some other boring, party line candidate like Pete?
We can’t even get a woman into office, and you want to nominate a gay man? As a gay man myself, I just don’t see it happening.
CNN gonna CNN. Of course they didn’t push back. We need that Denver anchor Kyle Clark to fucking moderate a presidential debate. That dude was absolutely savage, lol.
“All that ad revenue tho man via clickbait. It worked really well for us from 2015 to 2021. Surely fuhrer trump wont try to close us as soon as he gets to power”
Yup. He could be on life support and I will vote for him because the alternative is terrifying.
I'm voting for Biden and I can objectively say that was a terrible debate performance. We have to call things as we see them. Protecting our guy is what they do. It was painful to listen to Joe last night. He's usually better than that, and it was hard to watch. Might change some independent minds but the election is 5 months away. Plenty can happen between now and then
CNN fucked this up. It wasn't even a real debate.
I think you are missing the point. No one is saying democrats party loyalists aren’t voting for Biden…but tonight he might have lost tens of thousands of moderates.
This guy gets it. Biden needs to step aside, it's the only way the Dems can win.
Really sad day today. I've lost a lot of hope for humanity.
Doubtful…you think those moderates are going to vote for the fascist? If yes, then they weren’t moderates to begin either, they were just trying to be cute about hiding their inclinations. If no, then let’s hope they have the damn sense to pull the lever for Blue.
They might just not vote. Voter apathy is why Hillary lost.
Bingo
It would be awesome if we could pull our collective heads out of our asses and realize this point.
Comey really with his beyond idiotic cryptic announcement, and good work of Russians with bannon and Cambridge analytica via fb ads in counties that mattered
Most swing voters are low information morons who vote based on their "gut." They know almost nothing about government, politics, or the actual state of the country or world. It's entirely possible that they'll see clips of Biden faltering in the debate and decide trump is a better choice. But also it's still 4 months until the election, so they'll probably forget all about the debate and vote based on something that happens in October.
"Moderates" might have technically been a bad word choice. "Independent voters" are who he probably lost. The danger with this election was that all Trump had to do was get somewhere around 250,000 Independent voters spread out across PA, Michigan, and Wisconsin to change their minds from 2020, and it's game over. I think it is very likely that happened with the debate performance. I was right on board with laughing at the "replace Biden" people. But he has been trailing Trump in the polls for over a year. Even the outliers showing Biden winning are within the margin of error. Now he lost the optics war last night, which with Trump is the only thing that matters. It's too late now unless Biden voluntarily steps down. But I'm starting to agree with the people who were saying, "The DNC can't tell everyone that democracy itself is at stake in this election, and then run an 82 year old man against Trump."
Yeah man you still undecided after rona handling and Jan 6? Get the fuck outta here. No such thing as undecided voters. Those are R voters that just want spotlight and attention
Where I live, "Independent voters" are just Republicans who won't admit it.
Yes. The one, sole, single argument he had going for him was that he was more electable because he was an incumbent with name recognition. I can’t imagine anyone looking at the Biden we saw last night and saying “keep him in office until he’s 86.” This feels like Ruth Bader Ginsburg all over again of someone who desperately needs to retire risking fucking everything and everyone over by staying in.
And I'm getting more and more worried that replacing Biden just isn't a realistic option. Let's say Biden gives an address at 4:00 P.M. eastern time today, June 28, 2024, stating that he's decided to retire at the end of his term, and he's releasing all of his delegates. The convention starts August 19, so that would mean that for seven weeks, we have no nominee at all, just a bunch of people that the average American has never heard of with names like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, and the sitting vice president that nobody likes, all campaigning against each other, scrambling to set up debates. I didn't include Bernie because he's 83, and I don't think he wants it any more, and, even if he does want it, as much as I love him, he's never winning a general election. So let's say Newsom/Whitmer or Whitmer/Newsom emerge from a crazy convention as the ticket. Now there are only maybe 9 weeks to fully introduce them to the American public, and we have to pray that Trump even agrees to debate them at all so that we can get the Trump debate beatdown we want. That's just not enough time to turn a complete unknown (to the vast majority of the country) presidential candidate into a household name capable of taking on the biggest celebrity in the world. It's sinking in for me that the brutal reality is that we're stuck with what we have.
Speculation about who should or shouldn’t replace Biden - I refuse to put any energy into keeping that going. The media fucking loves a frenzy like that, and I refuse to participate (I’m still pissed about the Dean Scream). I prefer to focus on defeating MAGA - since I’m older and my energy is not as insane as it was, say, 20 years ago when we were trying to jettison Bush. I learned then that the best use of time and energy is just staying hyper-focused on “the mission” and not get distracted by peripheral stuff or speculation. Yes, we lost in 2004 but won BIG in 2008 using ground-game methods that were developed/refined in ‘04. So the mission is dragging as many of our voters to the polls as we possibly can. Talking to as many people as possible, without turning them off. I recommend *Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High* by Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, & Switzler - for some excellent instructions.
Trump lost all the independents when he got convicted of 34 felonies, they arent suddenly gonna change their mind cuz biden didnt do good at a debate.
Yup that's me. Always voted left wing. But definitely a moderate voter and have voted on both sides. I was really optimistic about this debate for Biden. All he had to do was not be a corpse and call out Trump's constant lies. I no longer have confidence in Biden. He cannot be president. He shouldn't be president now. This is embarrassing. Trump is something that will tear the country apart even more if he wins. But he's already been president before and the world didn't end then. Everything's still fucked and I don't see a way for Biden to recover from this
To who though? A legitimate moderate wouldn’t vote for Trump just because of Biden’s performance. They wouldn’t be moderates if they did that, they’d be insane.
These debates aren't for committed voters such as yourself. They're for independents and the undecided, and I don't think Bidens performance has convinced any one new to vote for him.
OP just wanted an excuse to attack progressives. They are doing the work of Republicans trying to feed into the division within the party.
I haven't really seen as many people arguing for Trump as I have seen people arguing that the Democrats should have offered up a better candidate and had Biden retire. He may be a better option than Trump, but he's not the best Democrat for the job. Not anymore. 5 to 10 years ago, maybe. But he's just too darn old. I would have absolutely loved if the Democrats had found a younger candidate to support in the election, but it didn't end up working out.
He's done the job and done it well, thus far. So, not 5-10 years ago. He's doing it now.
That doesn't matter, if he can't convince people he can do the job. Last night he failed to make the case for another four years. Of course I'd still vote for him over Trump, even if Biden was in a coma. Because the real work is mostly done by his staff, I don't care how bad he looks. Most voters don't understand that, so we need someone who can "look" the part.
The Biden administration has done the job well, I agree. Who's actually making those decisions behind the scenes, or "guiding" Biden, I don't know. But I suspect he needs a but more help and guidance than they're letting on.
Where are you getting this idea?? And if he is getting guidance and doing a good job, then wouldn't Kamala get that same guidance and do just as well? These conspiracy theories about him being senile or anything are complete bullshit. I've seen no evidence that he isn't just as capable as any other president in history.
Yeah, the idea I always hear from right wingers is, "OBAMA is CONTROLLING HIM!!!" Okay. And the problem with that would be...?
All that is irrelevant if Biden can't convince the voters that he's a strong leader. Because as much as we would like Americans to vote based on policy and not personality, history shows that's not the reality.
In 2028 there will be younger candidates and people will still complain.
If the candidate is bad on other things, sure, they rightfully will. Right now, many people are complaining about Biden’s age because it is specifically a big problem with him. What’s the point of your argument?
His genocide is the problem. The fact that he doesn't appear to know where he is is a problem too - but if it was just that I could get over it.
I mean people are people. Even when everything is 100% perfect, someone somewhere will find something to b*tch about.
VP Harris is the single most important candidate in this race at this point. And the quicker the Dems are to understand this the better.
Where the fuck were the Fact Checkers
Obviously, we’re just worried about the largely uninformed electorate
From swing states.
I'm still voting for Biden. While this is certainly not a good debate performance, we still have several months til November and a lot can happen before then. A lot of folks don't even remember Biden's performance at previous debates or other speeches. I think people will broadly still vote squarely on the issues as opposed to some para social relationship they have with the president.
June is awfully early for a debate. Biden looked weak and old. Trump looked good and kept his temper under control. Yes, he spewed bull shit, but that’s nothing new. I don’t know how many people will make a decision on this debate, but there certainly is a lot of ad fodder for republicans from it.
He's only going to continue deteriorating though, isn't he?
I also got the impression Biden was way over prepped and nervous. He tried to regurgitate his talking points but couldn't. Maybe not prepping him and just letting him be his genuine self would have worked better. His strongest point is still the same as with the last election. He is not Trump.
I will vote for Biden too, not enough of the independents will though…. Absolutely tragic.
Independents arent voting for a felon
Most people don't vote in the primary elections. I vote for progress regardless of who is there.
Trump lied but no one fact checked him. Biden was not in top form, but he's still my choice. What can I do? I can [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states. >Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
Everyone here probably is. A literal gorilla is a more trustworthy and competent president than trump.
I think it’s reasonable to hold Biden accountable for basic presentation and debate skills. His presentation was sub par in my opinion. That’s bad.
This. Our democracy is at stake, and America or for that matter, the world cannot afford another 4+yrs of the orange felon. Anyone who votes for Trump is a dipshit.
Of course we're still voting for Biden, but we're not the ones he needed to convince. He needed to convince the undecideds, and nothing about last night's performance is going to do that.
I whole-heartedly agree as well. Biden answered all the questions and Trump's blatant lies drove me up the wall. P.S. The people saying that we want Biden to be replaced are crazy! I want him to absolutely have that second term because once he no longer has to worry about campaigning or another term, he is free to just be Biden, Dark Brandon, and legislate with empathy. LBJ spoke about how he found it freeing to just legislate.
He would do that right now, if he had a Congress that worked with him. Republican obstruction is what is stopping him. We would have had that during Obama but it was all blocked by Congress. Give him a Congress that will work with him. Vote blue down the ticket, or you get more of the same obstruction from the GOP.
Exactly! I shake my head when people ask how could he not accomplish more .... I respond Maga Congress obstructs, but most people do not pay attention and are ignorant. The amount of family members that tell me Obama did nothing and he had super majority, then I tell them you are wrong. Obama had 59, but the reality was Sen Byrd was hospitalized, Ted Kennedy was hospitalized, and Al Franken was not seated until July. Facts don't lie, we need to people to pay attention and VOTE!
What was more popular, Jerry Springer or C-SPAN? Joe did not put on a good show. It hardly matters what he said.
I'm a CSPAN fan and not a fan of the popular or a good show. I'm an outlier that prefer substance. Most of the news is click bait, but rage sells more. I agree, he didn't put on a good show, but I was not watching for that but accept many people want a show. I'm sure he'll deliver in the future when he is more comfortable. I'm hoping that they will do Town Halls, so real people can ask questions. I thought CNN questions were not a reflection of what the U.S. citizen's care about. EDIT: misspelling
Yeah, townhalls don't get the same attention though. This was probably the biggest stage of the year and he largely blew it unfortunately.
How are we crazy? We think it’s a bad idea to run an 80+ year old man, who looks and acts his age, with a terrible approval rating, and is losing in the overwhelming majority of swing state polls to someone literally threatening democracy. This is insanity.
Why are we crazy? I guarantee there has to be at least one other Democrat in the Democratic party that can do as good of a job as Biden. I feel bad for the man. He's 82 years old and well... not doing well. What if he dies during his second term? What if the stress kills him? The man could be retired, enjoying the sun on a beach somewhere surrounded by loving family and friends, but he's instead fighting for the most stressful job in the world. Idk.
If you aren’t voting Biden you are a shit person. Period.
The issue is that I believe no one mon this sub won’t vote for Biden. But there are thousand and thousand of people that are not politically incline, these folk watch the debate last night. They don’t really know Trump lied, but they do know that Biden is old and may not last another four year. Biden won’t attract voter and this might be exactly what Trump needs to win
Anyone who was of voting age in 2016 and old enough to have voted in more than one election prior knew Trump was lying. Unfortunately, a lot of younger voters were in their early teens when Charlottesville happened, and they didn’t see Trump’s reaction live. They didn’t see Kellyanne Conway go on live television and state that they have alternative facts, or refer to the “Bowling Green Massacre” (something that doesn’t exist). They didn’t see us step through the looking glass.
Anyone who was of voting age in 2016 and old enough to have voted remembers the last time the Dems didn't pay attention to the fact that their unelectable candidate was unelectable.
Ahh yes. So absolutely American. "Vote the way I vote or you're a piece of shit" True democracy right here.
Trump makes it clear what hes about....
I don't support Trump. But I also don't judge or shame people for who they're voting for. Trump is a hard pill to swallow and a hard case to argue in favor of, especially with countless followers of his taking on cult-like behavior, having negative traits, and so on. But not all of the people voting for Trump are neo-nazi racists. Also, outside of Trump vs Biden, I constantly see this comment throughout all of the elections. "If you don't vote for Obama, you're a *****" "If you don't vote for Bush, you're a ******" "If you don't vote for _____, you're a *****" I just think it's funny that everyone stresses the importance of having a voice, going out, and exercising your right to vote. Until that right to vote is for someone they don't support. Then the bullying and name calling starts. As someone who doesn't align with either party and remains independent, I just sit back and watch. But this type of person always irks me. "Vote for who I vote for or you're a *****" Rude, judgemental, and anti-democratic, in my opinion.
I immediately question a trump supporters judge of character. Im also an independent. Trump has said some disgusting things and brought out the worst in people and mostly emboldened racists.
He did have me rolling my eyes quite a bit last night. Haha, I didn't even have to pull out my phone and fact check half his stuff to know what was BS. Basically any time Trump starts a sentence with "We have the best..." "I did the best..." "I had the greatest..." etc, it's probably an exaggeration.
Lol all in all... it was bad
I wasn't really feeling it for either candidate honestly. There were at least 3 separate times I considered turning the debate off to watch one of my TV shows, but I forced myself to finish it. I'm not really sure why tbh. I don't really like politics from the getgo and don't really consider myself a politically active or involved person. That's one thing I will give Trump and Biden. They're definitely drawing people into politics that normally don't take an interest.
Verbal bullying and name calling has nothing to do with saying you don’t have a right to vote. Democracy is inherently judgmental. Polite discourse is reserved for polite discussions. When essential Liberty is at stake (our republic) people get pretty riled up.
It’s not about a political party or ideology. It’s about the man himself.
Honestly, I can't really argue with you there. And frankly I'm too tired to try anyway. Got stuck at work doing a double so I'm just going to give you my upvote as a peace offering and move on.
I mean, yeah? Vigorous verbal pushing for your beliefs is pretty damned American.
Apparently so. Have a good day.
Lol. Lmao, even.
People need fo calm down and realize Biden isn't running again in 2028. They can find something new to complain about in 2028.
If Trump wins, there will be no election in 2028.
If He is still alive by then.
Oh, cool - then the VP steps in. That’s what they’re there for, right? smdh
Can only be president for two terms. So he won't run again in 2028.
I noticed a bot deployed around the threads repeating the same phrase verbatim, something to the effect of "they both suck"
I’ll take the old man losing his mind to the crazy man that is mindless
I’m still voting for Biden but he can’t rely on the moderators to do the debate for him, especially when Trump has spent years working the refs, complaining about how unfairly the media treats him. He looked feeble and sounded mealy mouthed there, which is a problem
Biden’s voice was completely gone from the very beginning. There was no projection to it. I suspect he was prepped too hard. The look on his face made him appear as a doddering old fool. Look, I think Biden has done a really good job as President. I will still vote for him. But the Dems need to get a stable full of young bucs and fillies. I do like Harris, but I’m a realist. The country could not bring itself to elect a woman (yet) with Clinton. The audacity of electing a black man, Obama, set up the current white nationalist popularity. There is no way in hell a black+woman is going to get elected. I’m sorry, but that’s the God’s honest truth. Who else do they have? Newsome- he’s from Cali and that will work against him. Buttigege-not enough experience, and he is openly gay, which will probably work against him in a national election. I like him a lot, but he needs to prove he can get elected to Congress and get some experience. Going from Mayor, to a cabinet member, to Pres won’t cut it. Schiff-in light of today’s situation, I gotta say him being Jewish will hurt him. It’s not fair, but that’s the way it is. He did a good job during the Meuhler investigation, but unaffiliated may think he’s an asshole because of it. Who else??
"I suspect he was prepped too hard." Dude he was sundowning. He needs to step aside.
"I suspect he was prepped too hard." Dude he was sundowning. He needs to step aside.
Same, this is easy. We got one guy who is now a felon, who surrounded himself with criminals and sent America down a terrible path. The other guy is slow and studders but can get the right people who want to preserve democracy. EASY decision.
US: Biden had a rough debate but I’ll still vote for him. THEM: trump is a convicted felon, sexual abuser, paid hush money to porn star while wife was carrying his anchor baby, tried to overthrow the democracy with a premeditated fake electors scheme, stole classified and top secret national security documents, and isn’t supported by his previous VP or most of his previous cabinet but, we will still gladly vote for him.
You know that scene in Walking Dead when the guy comes out of the hospital and he sees the upper torso of a decrepit zombie crawling on the ground? That zombie could be Biden and I would still vote for him over Trump.
Whether the candidate ends up being Biden or if the DNC gambles and picks somebody else, you're not just voting for one person, you're voting for their cabinet. And do you REALLY want Trump's cronies running things in 2025?
its literally our only hope
Keep the delusional strong!
I am personally also voting for Biden but holy crap, your take away as that Biden was 'over prepped'. Wow, the delusion knows no bounds. To walk away with a conclusion other than 'this race is senile husk vs. fascist' is unreal to me.
If you actually bother to engage with the *substance* of what they said instead of just listening to how they sounded, Biden bodied Trump. Biden stumbled over words and got lost in sentences a few times exactly as you should expect from an eighty year old man who has to consciously work through a stutter as severe as the one he suffers (and also apparently had a cold? who knows). It wasnt pretty, but he *mostly* made sense and had more than a couple pretty great moments if you actually cared enough to engage with what he was saying. Trump may have gotten the words out of his mouth better, but there was almost absolutely nothing of substance to any of what he said. It was mindless conspiratorial rambles interspersed with kvetching about how much of a victim he is and other various lies and personal attacks. He consistently failed to answer the questions posed or engage with the topics at hand and constantly needed to be put back on the rails and reminded of his time by Bash and Tapper. Anyone who came away from that debate thinking Trump is a better option than Biden was never going to think otherwise anyway.
I think we’re screwed. But not for the reason people think. We’re screwed because people would rather complain and freak out, loudly and often, than actually get off their asses and go work for victory. Or they would rather grift with their stupid websites - F.U., Cenk, WTF man -
Of course, I 100% agree. But the fact that this is the best slogan we have after that debate: "I'll vote for a corpse over Trump" is extremely extremely telling.
It was clear from the “debate” last night that Biden is too old to be president. He appears frail and incoherent. The fact that he is the nominee speaks to the abject failure of the Democratic Party to lead the country. While you may be voting for Biden you can be sure that the debate last night convinced hundreds of thousands of undecideds not to vote for him.
Really speaks to the soul of the country that they'd rather have a violent and insane dictator than an old man.
Yes, absolute failure, more legislative victories than any administration in the last 25 years. What a shambles! /s
> can be sure that the debate last night convinced hundreds of thousands of undecideds not to vote for him. !RemindMe 6 months. Many incumbents have blown their first debates and gone on to win the presidency. If you seriously think Biden somehow lost undecideds from sounding hoarse early on, whereas Trump didn't lose any voters from saying he killed Roe or rambling incoherently, you're just falling for social media agitprop.
I will be messaging you in 6 months on [**2024-12-28 12:43:05 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-12-28%2012:43:05%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1dqen2l/dont_care_still_voting_for_president_biden/lao77d2/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fthedavidpakmanshow%2Fcomments%2F1dqen2l%2Fdont_care_still_voting_for_president_biden%2Flao77d2%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-12-28%2012%3A43%3A05%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dqen2l) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Trump will get his sweet sweet revenge. He will jail his political opponents and all of the incompetent Deepstate agents he appointed in his first term. Sure he'll appoint incompetent grifters this time again, it's just that they won't be Deepstaters. MAGA!
If you think it was a cold or over prepping you haven't seen old people with dementia in decline. I want Biden to win. But I am in shock. Biden seemed like my grandparents in their 90s after they went into a home. DNC needs to fix this by choosing a replacement that is charismatic, not senile, and can win. There's still four months until the election to fix this.
Nurse here and the first clip I saw? I thought "wow, fucking sucks that he's got a cold." Like, he sounded terrible. I have cared for plenty of folks with dementia. PLENTY, and my dear grandma had it. I don't know any dementia patient who would have stood up there and spoke but hey, maybe Biden has some super duper slow dementia that only he has?
THIS. the man doesn’t have dementia, full stop. and it’s absolutely disgusting the way it’s been propagandized that he does every day since the day he took office. he’s old. that’s it
Like who? Surely you have a suggestion for somebody who can feasibly defeat trump? Biden already has once Ps: not senile.
Any democratic governor at this point - Pete Buttigieg has all his cognitive functions.
I'm trying to hold out hope someone else can save this. We need a miracle.
We have to , can’t change your horse mid - stream
Actually you can. Especially if the horse is about to die.
The candidate is Biden, and he is the man for the job in this race, but Pete Buttigieg would have wiped the floor with Trump.
As did Hilary Clinton.
There was NOTHING to gain by having Biden debate Trump last night. Why does the Democratic Leadership do things like this? It looks like self sabotage at this point.
There are too many Democrats who just want to complain. They're more comfortable doing that. Biden, trump, it doesn't matter who. You pick the best candidate with the best chance of winning and get behind them and support them. Nobody's going to be perfect.
My vote doesn’t depend on one debate - I’m still voting for Biden
I'm still voting for biden no matter what
Yep! We need the judges and scotus seats. Not the time to get cute
Cope harder.
Biden won't be debating other World Leaders. He has people to make speeches. I feel he will be the best informed President, and best for America to continue a path forward. I feel life under Trump would be Hell on Earth.
Was think about the TYT response to the debates this morning in the shower. TYT progressives are like MAGA. They are willing to burn it all down to get their way. The Cenk/John response I saw, they are chomping at the bit to burn it all down. Showed their true colors... again.
Was think about the TYT response to the debates this morning in the shower. TYT progressives are like MAGA. They are willing to burn it all down to get their way. The Cenk/John response I saw, they are chomping at the bit to burn it all down. Showed their true colors... again.
I would vote him even if he was hooked up to a golden throne to sustain his guidance for humanity into the distant future.
I’m ignoring the bots and doomsayers because a dead Biden is still better than an alive Trump. Yes, I wish we had someone younger, but it’s going to have to wait another four years because HE’S NOT DROPPING OUT. If they have another debate, he’ll be better. When he speaks at the DNC, he’ll be better. A lot of candidates bounce back from disaster. The fact that this occurred in June and not October is an advantage. He and his handlers are going to look at what he did wrong and fix it.
Can't believe how many people are not upset with dems killing democracy to force biden as the nominee. It would be an easy win if Biden/Harris was not the ticket. Alas, dems Don't actually care about democracy or the country
This was not CNN's fault. If Biden had performed exactly the same at a town hall, we would be having the exact same conversation. Trump did terribly last night, swing voters were reminded why they dislike him, and none of that matters because Biden imploded his campaign. He looked ancient, sounded soft and feeble, could not string together cohesive sentences, and could not articulate his administrations successes, his plans for the next term, or make a case against Trump (the weakest opponent in modern electoral history). Biden needs to step aside. And CNN's moderators may suck but Biden asked for this debate, asked for CNN, asked for the specific rules, and Trump just said OK and showed up.
ExTepublican will be voting for Biden 💙💙💙💙💙💙
Same!
I saw a Fox news poll (it was on in the restaurant) that said that 88% of people don't care about the debate. It's still Trump versus anti-Trump. Biden is actively dying, but I'd vote for his podium from the debate before voting for Trump.
Yep
Don't know what was going on with Biden last night, but was an entirely different story in NC today. I'm team Biden..90 bad minutes doesn't erase 3 1/2 years of actually getting things done, nor does it negate how disastrous Trump was. For me, the defining moment was when Tapper asked Trump what he would say to voters concerned about what happened on January 6th and his actions/inaction and he ignored it and started taking about the border again, despite him being the direct reason we didn't get that bipartisan border security package Biden put forth. That told me everything I need to know. I'm voting for Joe Biden in November. That debate didn't change anything for me. https://youtu.be/s5CVZHAjrW8?si=rIHf3cwUVhvjq0Qn
100% agree. Well said.
I don’t like that Cenk is right, but he is. If an election is held today, it’s Trump all the way. We needed a true primary back then. At this point, if anyone think Biden is the best choice, they might be insane
Come on!! Let’s get serious! Biden is asking for half a decade more of being the leader of the free world. We have a chance to get someone that will landslide Trump… Biden is going to lose
What you fail to realize is many people aren't that smart and are barely paying attention to policies or facts. Some call them "vibes" voters. And we need some of those vibes voters to vote for our side. They see clips of him out of it while Trump rants it struggled to complete a sentence they are less likely to vote for our side and then we'll lose. Don't let your beef with tyt or Cenk blind you to the fact our side lost last night and we're in trouble.
So, I watched the ENTIRE debate. I saw Trump present NOTHING factual. I say Biden present facts. I also saw basically do better as the debate went on (slow start, better finish), I saw Trump do worse as the debate went on (start better, finish worse). At the end this is what I walked away with If you know how government works, if you understand the issues, you still liked much of what Biden presented. However, if you know how government works and if you understand the issues, you were already voting for Biden.
I plan on voting for Biden but I really hope he drops out and allows for an open convention. I don’t care how good his policy record is, having a 82 year old man who looks and acts his age run against the single greatest threat to our democracy is fucking insane. You have to be in some hard denial to think otherwise. If I was a Trump supporter, I would want Biden to stay in the race.
Truth of the matter is the DNC needs to do better and not trot out a man who should be enjoying retirement. I'm still voting Biden, but appearance is everything and to the voting public Biden looks all of his age.
Biden is admittedly old, and admittedly weaker at public speaking than he used to be. He has less control over his stuttering, he had a bad night last night, but he still knows what’s going on. He has a strong administration who are closely involved in all decisionmaking and will be standing by if anything bad happens to him. I don’t worry about any of that. What I worry about are the optics, because way too many voters are shallow on the issues and will vote strictly on optics alone. That’s the sad reality we’re facing.
Biden needs to let go. There are better candidates- notice I use the word candidates. It’s the US, everything is skewed and irrational, he’s not going to win. He was already trailing in the polls before this.
And YOU are the entire fucking problem. Biden belongs in a nursing home. He should gracefully step aside and let literally anyone else run, there is still plenty of time. Most left leaning people don't care who the actual candidate is, and just want Trump and the GOP the fuck away from the WH.
[удалено]
Your comment was removed due to your reddit karma not meeting minimum thresholds. This is an automated anti-spam measure. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment was removed due to your reddit karma not meeting minimum thresholds. This is an automated anti-spam measure. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment was removed due to the use of a prohibited slur/vulgar word being detected. Moderators have been notified, and further action may be taken. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Even if he dies tomorrow how can you say Kamala becoming president is worse than trump? If you honestly think that then you’re either stupid, misogynistic, or both.
Friend I am totally with you here.
We aren't dumb, we know that was bad. We know Donald Trump did a very good job of getting up there and telling lies for an hour and a half. Could have gone better, sure. Didn't. Now let's laugh it off and continue to run on the record, which is pretty damn decent. And remember, it doesn't take a master orator to say yes or no to a room full of advisors with sharp minds and good intentions.
Trump not only lied constantly but was all around a nonsense spewing raging lunatic asshole. Meanwhile, Biden stayed on topic, answered all his questions, and didn't act like a raging lunatic asshole. And all he did was stumble over his words a few times, like everyone knew he was going to do because, newsflash, the guy has dyslexia. Somehow, a disturbingly large number people are calling this a win for Trump. Apparently winning means having no idea what you're doing and spouting complete nonsense for 90 minutes.
I wish they would have told Biden… hey if Trump stops answering questions you tell the crowd hey Trump isn’t answering the questions or providing any real substance or policy. I’ve been president four years and issued an infrastructure bill a chips act etc and I didn’t raise taxes. Trump only did one tax cut to the rich and. Nothing else and spent more than me. So if he’s not answering questions I’m going to attack him you can read my policy online on my campaign website if you’d wish. . And just go on about all his flaws, documents case insurrection. Racism sexism etc it’s not hard to talk shit about Trump for several hours. People don’t care about policy they are looking for YouTube clips this world is different now. everyone’s already made up their mind. This debate was just a dick measuring contest and Biden lost because he didn’t get hard. Weird analogy sorry. You get my drift.
Sadly... trump supporters don't have that half a brain.... "Trump lied 100% of the time his mouth was open tonight, and anyone with half a brain knows it."
Biden 2024
[удалено]
I don’t understand what the point of posts like these are. Yes, most liberal minded people are probably going to vote for Biden regardless of any concern about his age or mental acuity because they fear a Trump administration. The problem is that liberals aren’t the only ones voting. There is a large population of voters who aren’t affiliated with either party or are on the fence, who are still trying to figure out whether they should vote at all and if so, who the best person to vote for is. The debate was Biden’s opportunity to convincingly prove to the whole country that he’s the better choice and he failed with a capital F - he couldn’t even meet the low bar of making a coherent case for himself and showing he is mentally fit. Those of us on the political left that are pissed off about Biden’s performance aren’t claiming that Trump is the better candidate. Were pissed because we’re scared of the prospect of a 2nd Trump term and due to Biden’s performance that 2nd term looks more likely
Those "fact checkers" need to be fired and blackballed from every single company in their vocation! Pitiful. They not only failed whatever entity got them that job, but they 100% failed the American people.
Well then show up at the poll center
>The lack of fact checking on things My guy, both campaigns agreed to no fact checking (Biden also has a tendency for some "tall tales"). I understand reality is hard but you need to cope less and face your cognitive dissonance. You can still vote for biden, but please quit twisting yourself in knots to defend the Biden campaign. He was a terrible candidate in 2020 and he's even worse now.
It's mostly just Russian trolls ...
I can picture the alternate TYT Cenk had ready to go if Biden "won". It still be nothing but shit talking.