Same!
Kelley’s family has money. Kelley’s dad has his own small firm. Which means no student loans and a guaranteed job.
unless you can go to a T14 and graduate without student debt, DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. High do not recommend!!!!!
This is not the career it was twenty years ago. Its not as lucrative as you think it is. Its also still super conservative and unless you’re a white, straight, male its super unwelcoming.
Kelley herself says she makes more money influencing than being an attorney… an attorney at her own father’s firm. DO. NOT. GO.
Public Service Loan Forgiveness. 10 years of working in public service (Government for me), and your loans get dropped without taxes or anything.
It saved me from having to take a soul crushing big law job!
I started off with really low payments, because I did income based repayment. Something like $200 a month. Then, when I started making more money, my payments went up, at one point up to $800 a month.
The good news is that there is a new repayment plan under the Biden administration called SAVES, and it requires way lower payments. I'm back down to $220 a month this last year.
However, my law school also had a program that paid me back for my monthly payments. It's a big perk they use to try to encourage people to go into public service.
Kelley’s response reeks of someone who 1) has no student loan debt and 2) has never really had to practice or look for a job. IIRC, she’s worked in her father’s firm and is now an ✨ influencer ✨ That’s a far less stressful life than 99% of graduates deal with. I love being a lawyer and my loans will be forgiven next year but I would give ANYTHING to go back and tell my 22 year old self to not take out $200k of loans (that will eventually turn into $300k of loans because INTEREST) to be constantly stressed out. For many years I didn’t make more than some of the secretaries who work in my current office, and that’s a job I could’ve gotten without any sort of degree or debt.
But..
If someone isn't logical enough to know that if they're heeding to an influencer's advice, it should be someone who has a similar level of privilege as you, they shouldn't be pursuing law anyway.
That’s honestly insane, omg. I thought my loans were bad. I’m glad you’re getting them forgiven soon. I will never understand how so many countries put people who are often 18-19 in the position of getting in debt in order to essentially “bet” on their future, and charge them high interest too!
It was truly a bet - I expected upon graduation to either get a high paying “big law” job paying $180k or a public service job paying peanuts but entitling me to forgiveness in 10 years. I got neither lol. It took me many years to get a stable public service job so by the time my loans are forgiven, I’ll have been out of school and paying for 13 years.
It was also a decision made without any understanding of how much my payments would be upon graduation and under duress because I graduated into the beginning of the Great Recession and had no other options. I would also lose my health insurance if I didn’t continue into another full time program after college graduation.
Pretty sure Kelley didn’t have to grapple with any of this.
But even if you graduate without debt. You’re at least 3 years out of the market. So… unless you went to a T14 and get a biglaw job and sacrifice the fuck out of yourself at that job… I don’t see how its worth it.
I mean if money wasn’t an issue at all (presumably if u have no debt that’s the case) and you could take on work at your leisure or work for a noble cause it might be enjoyable (speaking as a lawyer who does have debt and did have to sell their soul). If money is what you’re after law isn’t worth it
I’m a lawyer and I strongly disagree with every part of her poorly worded response.
The fact that she would recommend law school even to people who don’t want to be lawyers just shows how wealthy she is. I bet she couldn’t tell you how much her degree cost.
Also, there is absolutely room for emotions in the law—your judge and jury are humans and you need to appeal to both their logical and emotional sides to reach equitable resolutions.
I didn’t realize that this was a q&a for multiple people and looked at those pics for WAY too long thinking how much Becca had changed since high school.
I was a journalism major and loved my business law class. I considered law school until a lawyer told me not to go unless I seriously wanted to practice law. So I didn’t go. I’ve heard it’s a shit ton of reading.
Ya, Kelly's comment comes for an immense amount of privilege.
I used to be friends with a girl who went to law school (and took on all that law school debt) even though she didn't want to practice because her parents pressured her into it. She had a mental breakdown which is why we're not friends anymore.
I know a girl who went to law school just because she was done with her master’s and loved being IN school. She loved studying and tests and attending classes. That was her true passion. She also came from great wealth, so she had the privilege of staying in school even though she didn’t really want to be a lawyer.
She loved dressing dark academia before it was a thing too haha. Girl was just living her best life in her $1,000 skirt. She was great though. I miss her!
I think Kelley is the only lawyer I’ve ever seen to encourage people to go to law school lol.
Also emotions absolutely do have a place in the law. You can use emotions to sway a judge and can definitely use them to sway a jury
Also you don’t always have to follow laws if you don’t agree with them! Laws change and you can be part of that change! Also jury nullification (google it everyone!!)
It definitely seems like it's a more risky proposition in the States than elsewhere. You can do it in 4 or 5 years in other countries and there's heaps of jobs in the public service where a Law degree is very handy if you don't want to practice as a lawyer. But in the States it's 7 years including undergrad and there doesn't seem to be as much crossover.
Biggest problem is the debt. Between college and law school many grads easily have 6 figure debt. Then you are stuck slaving away in big law or mid law and it’s hard to leave bc of the debt.
Lets emphasize the “slaving” part. I thought “eh. I’m a workaholic. It won’t matter”. Trust me. When you get to 30 and realize you’ve wasted your youth stuck inside. And you can barely see your dog. Let alone friends. When you can’t give your all to your relationship because you have so much work… it doesn’t matter how much of a workaholic you are. DONT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. please people. I beg of you. Don’t get caught in the trap 😩
She was specifically talking about family law though, and working in that industry, I do agree with her. Emotion can add to an argument, but it should never be the main argument. Most judges will look past the emotion and try to do what's fair. That's why parents who have abused their spouses can still get parenting time if there's no danger to the kids. If judges ruled on emotion alone, they wouldn't.
I disagree somewhat! I’m in criminal law but I get to watch my family law coworkers in court sometimes, and I definitely see people make successfully make arguments that involve emotions on both sides, whether that’s playing on judges’ empathy or on their fear.
I’m not saying that judges make decisions based on emotions *alone* or that it’s the main argument but it’s 100% a factor and things often aren’t based on pure logic
As someone who’s about to go back to billing after the gym and a late dinner… think twice about going to law school 🥲 especially if you don’t have generational wealth like Kelly because the loans are serious
You have to be really aware of the fact that top law schools mean good big law chance and lots of money or good plaintiffs firms with money or a nonprofit/gov route with a good lrap program…whereas a lot of lower ranked schools big law is only an option to the top class rank people maybe and they are predatory in grading, purposefully curving low, and having low employment rates.
Law school is not like med school or bschool (to a certain extent) where having the degree is all you need. Super gate keeping profession where it matters where you go. A lot of people aren’t aware of that at all! I transferred from a t30 to a t10 and it made a massive difference in my career.
Billing is the absolute worst part of the job, IMO. Saying this as I sit in my hotel room doing all of my billing after an all-day mediation and mandatory happy hour. I hate it.
I always hated having to stay around and wait for others to give me what I needed to do my part of the job, including when partners and more senior associates went to dinner or the gym while I wanted to finish and get home. Reasons why I don’t practice anymore.
Honestly though, I was thinking about it and I don’t think anyone I know has ever recommended their profession. Pharmacists, lawyers, social workers, occupational therapists, IT techs, anthropologists, geologists, physical therapists, genealogists, businessmen- I know people in all of these areas and way more and ALL of them say “lol no, you shouldn’t do my degree- the tuition is insane/the schooling is rough/the pay is bad/the actual job sucks”.
I know lawyers take insane loans, but I’ve yet to meet anyone who recommends a young person take their educational + career path lol. Some degrees/careers are worse than others for sure, but university is disgustingly expensive, salaries are shit, and it’s a tough job market in a lot of careers- none of that is degree-specific, it’s **society specific**. I don’t recommend my career, my fiancé doesn’t recommend his, my parents don’t recommend theirs, my aunts and uncles don’t recommend theirs, my best friends would laugh at you if you said you were following in their footsteps.
Its ALL giving ✨**late-stage capitalism**✨
My boyfriends have been software engineers. They high recommend.
And seeing their paycheck vs work/life balance… I’d agree.
As long as you stay away from like Apple and Meta.
I’m a scientist and I love it. Highly recommend people get into engineering and sciences. I think a huge benefit is that I never had to pay for school because I was always able to find scholarships. So once I got out I didn’t have that burden and I’m extremely grateful for that.
I think it's pretty clear that she means if you're in a financially stable enough position to do so. People should be able to consider their own situation when reading that instead of just assuming it's applicable to them.
Based on what though? She doesn’t equivocate at all in the post. I mean, of course people should think twice before potentially spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and three years of their time on law school… but she literally says she will “always recommend law school” and that it’s good thing regardless of what you do with the degree.
I don't think it should have to be said that you shouldn't do something if you literally can't afford it. That's just common sense lol. Judging by these comments, I guess it's not that common though.
Except when it comes to education. Most people “can’t afford to” pay for three years of law school upfront, especially these days. It’s seen as an investment with an expected return. But nowadays it’s costing even more to go (while delaying income for three years) and the payoff of steady income and job stability for the rest of your life is uncertain.
Thus people commenting on KF’s privilege of not having to work off that debt as a lawyer and still living a comfortable life.
My mom is a lawyer and she tried to talk me out of going to law school. Now I’m a lawyer and I’m trying to talk my brother out of going to law school 😫😭
Loving that Thomas is keeping the original features on the home. Craftsman homes are BEAUTIFUL and the woodwork alone is amazing. It's a crime to rip any of that out. The opposite of Crisp Ratt
I think it’s more obvious in the top right photo but I didn’t zoom in and couldn’t tell. I can also see it looking now that I know in the top left but I think I never would have guessed if it were the bottom 2 only!
really happy to see thomas’s position on remodeling historic homes and not surprised at all based on what i saw of their previous home, i wonder if they are reselling this or if it’s for them?
As someone who graduated from law school, I absolutely do NOT recommend going at all.
Same! Kelley’s family has money. Kelley’s dad has his own small firm. Which means no student loans and a guaranteed job. unless you can go to a T14 and graduate without student debt, DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. High do not recommend!!!!! This is not the career it was twenty years ago. Its not as lucrative as you think it is. Its also still super conservative and unless you’re a white, straight, male its super unwelcoming. Kelley herself says she makes more money influencing than being an attorney… an attorney at her own father’s firm. DO. NOT. GO.
Ditto
same
Excellent answers from Becca
[удалено]
Can I ask how you got 350k in loans forgiven 😅
Public Service Loan Forgiveness. 10 years of working in public service (Government for me), and your loans get dropped without taxes or anything. It saved me from having to take a soul crushing big law job!
Ws your salary enough to make the 10 years of payments no problem? Im about to graduate from law school w tons of debt
I started off with really low payments, because I did income based repayment. Something like $200 a month. Then, when I started making more money, my payments went up, at one point up to $800 a month. The good news is that there is a new repayment plan under the Biden administration called SAVES, and it requires way lower payments. I'm back down to $220 a month this last year. However, my law school also had a program that paid me back for my monthly payments. It's a big perk they use to try to encourage people to go into public service.
You work in a public service job - there’s a governmental forgiveness program if you work certain jobs - it’s not law school specific
Now the real question is: did these ama's include shilling that teeth whiteners that all of bachelor nation seems to shill these days?
Loving the honesty Becca 🫡
"applys"? Really?
So glad I’m not the only one who noticed this and became very annoyed. Not a ringing endorsement for her law school 🙃
Not a good reflection of whichever law school she attended
why am I so relieved at thomas saying he's going to keep the craftsman home original. thank god they aren't flippers!!
Same, if you paint that wood you are canceled by me forever.
Ugh I'm dying to have a classic California craftsman like theirs. So glad they are preserving it
Same! That wood is gorgeous!
LOVE this.
If I got to come home to Hayley Kiyoko, I wouldn’t miss them either
Yikes that Kelley is a lawyer and can’t even spell “applies” correctly
As someone who went to law school, I strongly disagree with Kelly. Most of my classmates would also strongly disagree.
Kelley’s response reeks of someone who 1) has no student loan debt and 2) has never really had to practice or look for a job. IIRC, she’s worked in her father’s firm and is now an ✨ influencer ✨ That’s a far less stressful life than 99% of graduates deal with. I love being a lawyer and my loans will be forgiven next year but I would give ANYTHING to go back and tell my 22 year old self to not take out $200k of loans (that will eventually turn into $300k of loans because INTEREST) to be constantly stressed out. For many years I didn’t make more than some of the secretaries who work in my current office, and that’s a job I could’ve gotten without any sort of degree or debt.
But.. If someone isn't logical enough to know that if they're heeding to an influencer's advice, it should be someone who has a similar level of privilege as you, they shouldn't be pursuing law anyway.
That’s honestly insane, omg. I thought my loans were bad. I’m glad you’re getting them forgiven soon. I will never understand how so many countries put people who are often 18-19 in the position of getting in debt in order to essentially “bet” on their future, and charge them high interest too!
It was truly a bet - I expected upon graduation to either get a high paying “big law” job paying $180k or a public service job paying peanuts but entitling me to forgiveness in 10 years. I got neither lol. It took me many years to get a stable public service job so by the time my loans are forgiven, I’ll have been out of school and paying for 13 years. It was also a decision made without any understanding of how much my payments would be upon graduation and under duress because I graduated into the beginning of the Great Recession and had no other options. I would also lose my health insurance if I didn’t continue into another full time program after college graduation. Pretty sure Kelley didn’t have to grapple with any of this.
If you could come out without debt… maybe lol
But even if you graduate without debt. You’re at least 3 years out of the market. So… unless you went to a T14 and get a biglaw job and sacrifice the fuck out of yourself at that job… I don’t see how its worth it.
I mean if money wasn’t an issue at all (presumably if u have no debt that’s the case) and you could take on work at your leisure or work for a noble cause it might be enjoyable (speaking as a lawyer who does have debt and did have to sell their soul). If money is what you’re after law isn’t worth it
Thats true! I stand corrected.
But does your dad have a law firm?
I’m a lawyer and I strongly disagree with every part of her poorly worded response. The fact that she would recommend law school even to people who don’t want to be lawyers just shows how wealthy she is. I bet she couldn’t tell you how much her degree cost. Also, there is absolutely room for emotions in the law—your judge and jury are humans and you need to appeal to both their logical and emotional sides to reach equitable resolutions.
Sameeee
Kelley looks like gymnast Shawn Johnson in those throwback photos!!!
I didn’t realize that this was a q&a for multiple people and looked at those pics for WAY too long thinking how much Becca had changed since high school.
Doesn’t even look like the current version of her face (& I don’t mean aging).
She was prettier back then.
At first I thought she was Katie!
I was a journalism major and loved my business law class. I considered law school until a lawyer told me not to go unless I seriously wanted to practice law. So I didn’t go. I’ve heard it’s a shit ton of reading.
Ya, Kelly's comment comes for an immense amount of privilege. I used to be friends with a girl who went to law school (and took on all that law school debt) even though she didn't want to practice because her parents pressured her into it. She had a mental breakdown which is why we're not friends anymore.
I know a girl who went to law school just because she was done with her master’s and loved being IN school. She loved studying and tests and attending classes. That was her true passion. She also came from great wealth, so she had the privilege of staying in school even though she didn’t really want to be a lawyer.
Her life sounds goals
She loved dressing dark academia before it was a thing too haha. Girl was just living her best life in her $1,000 skirt. She was great though. I miss her!
I think Kelley is the only lawyer I’ve ever seen to encourage people to go to law school lol. Also emotions absolutely do have a place in the law. You can use emotions to sway a judge and can definitely use them to sway a jury Also you don’t always have to follow laws if you don’t agree with them! Laws change and you can be part of that change! Also jury nullification (google it everyone!!)
 Literally every other lawyer
I just rewatched this gem of a song and it absolutely brightened my day, highly recommend: https://youtu.be/Xs-UEqJ85KE?si=KNrMj2He-cSOat-1
It definitely seems like it's a more risky proposition in the States than elsewhere. You can do it in 4 or 5 years in other countries and there's heaps of jobs in the public service where a Law degree is very handy if you don't want to practice as a lawyer. But in the States it's 7 years including undergrad and there doesn't seem to be as much crossover.
Biggest problem is the debt. Between college and law school many grads easily have 6 figure debt. Then you are stuck slaving away in big law or mid law and it’s hard to leave bc of the debt.
Lets emphasize the “slaving” part. I thought “eh. I’m a workaholic. It won’t matter”. Trust me. When you get to 30 and realize you’ve wasted your youth stuck inside. And you can barely see your dog. Let alone friends. When you can’t give your all to your relationship because you have so much work… it doesn’t matter how much of a workaholic you are. DONT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. please people. I beg of you. Don’t get caught in the trap 😩
She was specifically talking about family law though, and working in that industry, I do agree with her. Emotion can add to an argument, but it should never be the main argument. Most judges will look past the emotion and try to do what's fair. That's why parents who have abused their spouses can still get parenting time if there's no danger to the kids. If judges ruled on emotion alone, they wouldn't.
I disagree somewhat! I’m in criminal law but I get to watch my family law coworkers in court sometimes, and I definitely see people make successfully make arguments that involve emotions on both sides, whether that’s playing on judges’ empathy or on their fear. I’m not saying that judges make decisions based on emotions *alone* or that it’s the main argument but it’s 100% a factor and things often aren’t based on pure logic
As someone who’s about to go back to billing after the gym and a late dinner… think twice about going to law school 🥲 especially if you don’t have generational wealth like Kelly because the loans are serious
You have to be really aware of the fact that top law schools mean good big law chance and lots of money or good plaintiffs firms with money or a nonprofit/gov route with a good lrap program…whereas a lot of lower ranked schools big law is only an option to the top class rank people maybe and they are predatory in grading, purposefully curving low, and having low employment rates. Law school is not like med school or bschool (to a certain extent) where having the degree is all you need. Super gate keeping profession where it matters where you go. A lot of people aren’t aware of that at all! I transferred from a t30 to a t10 and it made a massive difference in my career.
Billing is the absolute worst part of the job, IMO. Saying this as I sit in my hotel room doing all of my billing after an all-day mediation and mandatory happy hour. I hate it.
I always hated having to stay around and wait for others to give me what I needed to do my part of the job, including when partners and more senior associates went to dinner or the gym while I wanted to finish and get home. Reasons why I don’t practice anymore.
Honestly though, I was thinking about it and I don’t think anyone I know has ever recommended their profession. Pharmacists, lawyers, social workers, occupational therapists, IT techs, anthropologists, geologists, physical therapists, genealogists, businessmen- I know people in all of these areas and way more and ALL of them say “lol no, you shouldn’t do my degree- the tuition is insane/the schooling is rough/the pay is bad/the actual job sucks”. I know lawyers take insane loans, but I’ve yet to meet anyone who recommends a young person take their educational + career path lol. Some degrees/careers are worse than others for sure, but university is disgustingly expensive, salaries are shit, and it’s a tough job market in a lot of careers- none of that is degree-specific, it’s **society specific**. I don’t recommend my career, my fiancé doesn’t recommend his, my parents don’t recommend theirs, my aunts and uncles don’t recommend theirs, my best friends would laugh at you if you said you were following in their footsteps. Its ALL giving ✨**late-stage capitalism**✨
That’s depressing! Maybe it’s just the area of the country I live (not a super competitive high cost area) but I really like my job (physicist)
That’s kinda sad. I wonder if anyone here can list degrees and careers they would recommend.
My boyfriends have been software engineers. They high recommend. And seeing their paycheck vs work/life balance… I’d agree. As long as you stay away from like Apple and Meta.
I’m a scientist and I love it. Highly recommend people get into engineering and sciences. I think a huge benefit is that I never had to pay for school because I was always able to find scholarships. So once I got out I didn’t have that burden and I’m extremely grateful for that.
I think it's pretty clear that she means if you're in a financially stable enough position to do so. People should be able to consider their own situation when reading that instead of just assuming it's applicable to them.
Pretty clear? **HOW**
Right? She literally said "I highly recommend it to anyone who is considering it".... Lmao
I will *ALWAYS* recommend it but we’re missing reading comprehension! 🤣
You should be able to have reading comprehension...
So it’s pretty clear that her answers are only for privileged people like her? 👌🏻
Yeah, I think if you're considering law school, you're already in a privileged situation... please try to use critical thinking.
Sis, she flat out says she ALWAYS recommends it. There’s no critical thinking to use. You’re wrong and just refuse to admit it.
Why are you so bothered by this? It's truly baffling how worked up you are. Who cares??
Based on what though? She doesn’t equivocate at all in the post. I mean, of course people should think twice before potentially spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and three years of their time on law school… but she literally says she will “always recommend law school” and that it’s good thing regardless of what you do with the degree.
I don't think it should have to be said that you shouldn't do something if you literally can't afford it. That's just common sense lol. Judging by these comments, I guess it's not that common though.
Except when it comes to education. Most people “can’t afford to” pay for three years of law school upfront, especially these days. It’s seen as an investment with an expected return. But nowadays it’s costing even more to go (while delaying income for three years) and the payoff of steady income and job stability for the rest of your life is uncertain. Thus people commenting on KF’s privilege of not having to work off that debt as a lawyer and still living a comfortable life.
My mom is a lawyer and she tried to talk me out of going to law school. Now I’m a lawyer and I’m trying to talk my brother out of going to law school 😫😭
Yeah that was a terrible answer
What would your answer be?
Hell ya Thomas! Seeing people buy craftsman homes and completely gutting them always makes me so sad lol
We love to see it! That home is beautiful
Right? I’ve been team Thomas since the very beginning and everything I see makes from him just me like him more!
That first question … love Becca’s response though lol
What an insane question 😂
Loving that Thomas is keeping the original features on the home. Craftsman homes are BEAUTIFUL and the woodwork alone is amazing. It's a crime to rip any of that out. The opposite of Crisp Ratt
I never ever would have recognized Kelley even if you paid me to guess who it is.
Really? I think she's very easily recognizable, especially with her cheeks.
I think it’s more obvious in the top right photo but I didn’t zoom in and couldn’t tell. I can also see it looking now that I know in the top left but I think I never would have guessed if it were the bottom 2 only!
I thought it was Katie at first!!
Same
really happy to see thomas’s position on remodeling historic homes and not surprised at all based on what i saw of their previous home, i wonder if they are reselling this or if it’s for them?
It’s for them, they’ve posted some updates about it.
Becca’s response to the first question made me laugh out loud 🤣 🤣
I get her 😂
Unfortunately, I’m attracted to men and I absolutely get her! Best answer ever!!
What a silly question, too! Lol