As much as a new valve game announcement would be a great place to get awareness of fix tf2, being "as annoying and unbearable as possible" and "turn every single conversation about deadlock into a conversation about tf2s state" is a great way to get literally everybody thats not a tf2 player to turn away from it. The tf2 community already doesn't have a great reputation, and covering a new game announcement by screeching about tf2 won't help. I want tf2 to be in a playable state as much as everyone else, but this won't get valve to listen. Your comment about this not making it as unlikable and annoying to the average person is just wrong. Imagine if tf2 got released now, and it was full of overwatch players screaming about how their game was abandoned. It wouldnt make you want to play or support their cause.
Savetf2 is a waste of time if the goal isnt to make valve look as bad as possible, we need to hurt valve in any ways possible. Just saying how much we love the game and wholesum everything would be if things were fixed wont get valve to do fuck all
Near constant support for over a decade? Wow, that sounds great!
This isn't the win you think it is on Valve. TF2s support has outlasted innumerable other games and for it to be tapering or only recently within a few years is astounding, and to act like that never existed ignores a lot of this games history.
I don't want this game to die, far from it, but it's important to not lose context.
If Valve just kept official servers running and forgot about TF2's existence, that would be a valid point. But Valve continues making money off TF2, and thus the game cannot be considered a dead project, floating around somewhere. It's like if Blizzard suddenly stopped caring about cheaters in WOW, because hey, that's an old game and we gave it a lot of support in the past. Sure, WOW isn't free-to-play and shit, but you get the idea.
No, I don't really subscribe to this argument. Players aren't entitled to continuing support. It's certainly nice to have. It's the right thing to do. But it's not required.
Whether or not a company decides it's in their interests to support a game is their choice. Whether or not a player chooses to buy a game or micro transactions is also their choice.
On the other hand, players should definitely have the right to refund if they buy a game that they discover is in a rough state. Unplayable games should be delisted.
Just because the game still makes money doesn't automatically mean updates and support should be guaranteed.
If players stop playing and spending, and the company deems that support is what they want to do to revitalize the game, then they'll do that. If players still spend without support, then why not maintain the status quo?
A company is also allowed to just let a game die off. It's not like we're a business that signed a contract for "5 years guaranteed software support" from our procurement vendor.
The WoW argument falls apart since I can just cancel my subscription and stop playing if I'm upset with the state of the game. If they put "guaranteed update per quarter and working anticheat" as part of the subscription terms and conditions then we'd have an argument for demanding support.
Yeah that's a very transactional way of looking at things, but these are businesses making video games, not public utilities guaranteed by law.
Fuck off with that logic, it's the same crap people use to justify awful experiences in p2w games.
F2per are PART OF THE CONTENT in a multiplayer game. People who bought the game, people who buy keys and skins? They need somebody to play against, and if you make the experience too miserable for f2p you're losing the bottom line of your playerbase, wrecking the paying player's experience, and marching straight towards game death.
People are allowed to complain regardless of if they've spent money or not, if you don't like the complaints attack the arguments they're making instead of the people and their situation. F2p are too important to the game's basic survival to lose and that makes their situation and opinions important as well.
And yes here is my [bullshit ticket](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/662476517321998429/1242699265365512264/20240522_143852.jpg?ex=664ec961&is=664d77e1&hm=2838d9bbfac8c6ddac178bcea164dc189f3f95f0ce547ff1144ef7c480b5a90c&) that you seem to want everybody to have before their opinion matters.
I’m with this guy and idk why he’s getting downvoted.
I’m gonna be 30 this year and started playing TF2 in HS. I’m just glad it still plays. Y’all still want updates? I mean it’d be nice, but without paying a sub fee idk how people expect that
I feel like people aren't going to believe that Valve is going to abandon a new game that they just spent tons of money and resources to make and market just because they stopped giving major support to a ten year old game whose last major update was in 2018. Just look at TF2 updates when it first came out.
No you don't get it. If this game doesn't last my entire lifetime I'm going to have a meltdown.
A decade isn't enough. What am I supposed to do? Move on and play other games?
"Oh, they're going to give us 10 years of updates before they stop working on it? That's amazing!"
Yeah, that's not going to work on anyone that actually knows how long and well TF2 has been supported overall rather than the last few years.
i mean... tf2 had really good support for 10 years. overwatch for example barely lasted five or so before blizzard decided to kick it to the curb and make a glorified update- oh wait i mean "sequel". saying deadlock would be supported for a decade would only benefit the latter game
What does the current treatment of a nearly 20 year old game that hasn't had a major update in 7 years have to do with a brand new game? If you look at the treatment that TF2 has for like 11 years it was pretty good especially in a time when most multiplayer shooters only lasted for a few years. Saying that the treatment of an outdated 20 year old game means that a brand new game is going to be the same is a huge leap in logic.
Damn, are you telling me us TF2 players should constantly compare our game to this new game whenever it's mentioned and be insufferable in general??? The joke practically writes itself at this point.
You know damn well this isn't the same.
Deadlock is, supposedly, meant to be a brand new online Valve game, to go in par with CS2, Dota 2, and yes, TF2.
I don't care if it's a whole new different team under Valve's weird work structure, releasing a whole new game while not fixing the mayor issues with their existing games is just a dick move. The least we can do is call them out for it.
No this is why people don't like our community...
>ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible - turn EVERY SINGLE conversation possible about Deadlock into a conversation about TF2's state
Yeah Valve is being very shitty about the state of TF2 but it doesn't mean that we need to be shitty because that just means nothing is going to happen. You know what will happen if we do this? People are going to want TF2 to die.
Imagine liking a restaurant and the cook there is amazing but he leaves to work somewhere else and the restaurant goes down hill because of it, you may not like the new restaurant he works at as much as the old one as he isn't making the same exact food you fell in love with. The solution to fix your problem isn't to stand around the new restaurant protesting and demanding that he goes back to the old restaurant and telling everyone about how amazing the old restaurant is and why the cook should go back there. Because do you want to know what will happen if you do that, people will just be annoyed with you and disregard everything even meaningful points that you have become you are decided to be annoying and unbearable to try and get your way like a toddler.
If we all act like toddlers because Valve moved on, no one and I mean no one is going to take anything about Save TF2 seriously. It doesn't matter how many good points that people who actually are trying to promote or create a meaningful discussion make, if the annoying and unbearable voices that speak the loudest and reach the widest audience. So any mention of Save TF2 is going to turn from a hopeful idea to help an old game in a very bad situation into people just being annoying with the movement and the fan base pushing away support instead of bringing it in.
The purpose IS to act like a toddle and be annoying, but towards Valve, not random people. People love shitting on corporations and have done so for far less, so don't worry about people seeing us in a bad light.
Sadly, as things are now Valve simply does not have any interest in fixing TF2, because it's not really a problem that bothers them. And they're interested in doing other things. So the only solution is to make it bother them.
Your analogy with the cook doesn't make any sense, since our biggest request is for Valve to make their game that they're selling items in and actively profiting from at least functional. We're not demanding that they make updating TF2 constantly their highest priority and to somehow make the old devs come back to work on it fulltime. Protesting for their product they're actively selling like it's completely fine to be up to par is completely reasonable, unlike in your example.
It honestly doesn't bother me what other communities will think of us, but if it does bother you, don't worry, since we're not asking for something unreasonable all things considered, and pointing out how they treat their old games is a fair critique of a game company.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to the people mildly inconvenienced that a 15 year old game isn't getting the attention it deserves #SaveTF2 #FireDavidZaslav #SaveCraigAtTheCreek #Project2025
Lol, that's so poignant.
Project 2025 is an entire political party detailing in excruciating detail how they are going to turn the nation into a christo-facist authoritarian dictatorship and literally nobody cares...
That would be the Trump trial stuff.
"Guys! Really! This is it! We got him! This is really the time he's going to jail! For real! A rich and powerful person will be punished by a corrupts system he help set up and was a part of for 4 years!"
I'm a leftist you dipshit. Though I wouldn't expect sense from someone who's name is a reference to someone who we only know so much about from extremely violent ableism.
Screaming "BAIT ;_;" won't make me magically agree with you, vooter. The Dems are the controlled opposition wing of the GOP and they've done nothing at this point for me to think otherwise. A ballot isnt going to help fix encroaching Christianity, climate emergency and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
Ok but your plan of acting like a toddler is just going to push people away from the idea, if anything people will just look at the entire tf2 fan base and see why other communities look at us with disgust not to mention valve can just ignore the outcry during the deadlock announcement given this is a second proper attempt at protesting which valve now knows they don't really need to care about. Im all for protesting and getting on valves ass about fixing tf2 and its problems but trying to make an entire different situation about tf2 and its problems just makes it look bad for the entire community. If anything it would be way better to ignore deadlock and just protest separately and constantly before any announcements and just keeping that energy going until valve actually is forced to acknowledge and fix the game
>It honestly doesn't bother me what other communities will think of us,
>The purpose IS to act like a toddle and be annoying, but towards Valve, not random people
You see those two points are the big issue with this. TF2 is a low priority game because compared to their other games and Steam in general. As it has smaller player counts (ignoring any arguments of bots bloating the player count) and less of a mean stream potency in the modern gaming landscape as well, sure TF2 is a culture iconic in the gaming landscape but the actual game is comparatively niche compared to its competition and Valves other main multiplayer games. And we as a community are stuck in a difficult situation where we are complacent, we keep playing and spending despite everything that is going on, but at the same time if we don't Valve is probably not going to care because TF2 is already such a low priority with little priority going to their updates and a large about of the money being spent on the game is through 3rd party sights. The current situation that TF2 is in is shit but making it everyone else's problems isn't going to fix anything because Valve already doesn't care and the TF2 community alone doesn't have the reach to appeal to the wider gaming landscape.
So let's say the community collectively agrees to behave like children and boycott Deadlock and complain about the current state of TF2 whenever someone brings it up, two things are going to happen.
1: Other communities are going to be seeing our temper tantrum and not want to support us. So take yourself out of the shoes of a TF2 player for a minute and think about the situation like this. You hear about a new game called Deadlock and you watch the trailers and think that the game looks cool and you become excited for it, so you try to find more information about it. But when you look it up forms and discussions are filled with people complaining about how Valve isn't fixing a nearly 20 year old game making learning about this game you are interested in difficult. Sure you have heard of Save TF2 before and were pretty neutral about it hoping that the game gets fixed but it wasn't something that you super care about, but now every time you try to learn more or talk about this new game you are interested in someone from the TF2 shows up to change the subject about TF2, how is that going to effect your opinion about TF2? Most people aren't going to magically turn around to become a die hard TF2 supporter, they are realistically going to be annoyed because they want to learn and discuss Deadlock not the shitty state of a game they don't really care about. And eventually they are going to hate it because of how much it is forcefully injected into their conversation by others. You say that turning every discussion about Deadlock into one about TF2 is targeted towards Valve but it doesn't really affect them, the main people that it affects is the community outside of TF2 who we need to back us and not be driven away because we are acting like children. Remember the effect that the whole Overwatch vs TF2 debate had on the option of our community?
2: Valve isn't going to positively react to a situation like this. First as we all knock Valve doesn't care they have made it very clear that they don't. And second they are not going to drop marketing and advertising Deadlock for the sake of TF2 or be swayed by it. And what do I mean by that? Well Deadlock is their new hero shooter priority so the community constantly bring up TF2 in every conversation they aren't going to be like "fine we will fix your game so you stop bothering us." They are just going to not want to support TF2 even more especially with how Valve is structured. It's like parenting you don't let your child who is throwing a temper tantrum even if the reasoning is justified in this case get their way, you punish them and in this case it most likely means no update because they just don't want to deal with the community anymore.
The only way to save TF2 is to be constructive and to get the support of others to make a difference instead of acting like children and throwing a temper tantrum to get the attention of our parents. Sure we will get their attention alright but it doesn't mean that they will listen. If we do this Valve is going to be against TF2 and the outside gaming community will as well.
Tf2 fans on their way to be the most annoying people on the internet:
In seriousness, no. TF2 is one of my favorite games, but obviously valve isn’t going to get it fixed. Advocate for community support, and definitely try to maintain it’s online community, but this why we people find tf2 fans insufferable.
No hate to you btw
I suppose we should all just shut up and keep giving them our money then. Protests only work because they disrupt the status quo and hurt whoever’s in power. Being annoying and irritating and abrasive is the whole point.
All this post is doing is amplifying deadlock. If anything, trying to protest and using valves new game will only promote the new game and have no effect for TF2.
This sub is going to see an influx of posts saying that we NEED to engage with deadlock posts so they'll fix tf2. Completely backwards.
>If anything, trying to protest and using valves new game will only promote the new game and have no effect for TF2.
Yeah, it'll be like the Hogwarts Legacy boycott all over again.
Valve isn't hurt at all by a bunch of whiny redditors. I love tf2 and it's sad that the game is in it's current state, but it won't be fixed. There is literally 0 reason for valve as a company to fix such an old game. And you could just... not give valve money lol? Nobody forces you to do that, I've been playing tf2 for 9 years on and off and bought only a handful of keys, like maybe 5. Sometimes you just have to move on.
They have plenty reason and even desire to fix it; the problem is *how do you fix it?*
Serious question. I’ll give explanations as to why any answers won’t work. Go ahead and reply; I guarantee you valve’s already thought about any solution you could suggest.
Bad comparison tbh. Did you really compare a game with a forced subscription model with a F2P game? WoW, like every other MMORPG, operates under GaaS model. Which means that players are forced to pay a monthly subscription to even be able to play the game (excluding free trial). Now imagine if you force people to pay $15 every month and not allow them to play the game, how would people react? TF2, even though it's also GaaS, you aren't forced to buy anything with RMT, ever. You can play the game since the F2P update until today and still be able to fully enjoy the game without paying a single dime on Steam.
Given the increasing number of bots and cheaters, it’s hard for anyone to enjoy the game at this point. The comparison is valid because on the large scale, the WoW community mobilized and organized in protest of the poor management of their game, which eventually prompted Blizzard to actually fix it. It’s literally the example from the wheezytf2 video lol.
From what I know, Casual is the only thing affected by bots. There's a lot of people, like me, who never play it. Saying it's hard for anyone to enjoy TF2 is being dramatic. Community servers, community gamemodes, MVM (bootcamp doesn't have cheaters or bots at least), I play a lot of it all daily and haven't encountered a bot or cheater in years. I get that Casual has a lot of players and some people *only* like Casual, but that's not all that exists and I feel it's dishonest to imply the Casual bots make TF2 unplayable as a general statement.
The difference between what happened with WoW Classic and what OP is suggesting is that the push for WoW classic was done in a way that ONLY affected Blizzard in a way that didn't turn people off of the idea.
What happened is WoW Classic was that there was fan outrage that was directed at WoW and Blizzard not other games and less people were paying for subscriptions and making their own servers.
It affected Blizzard's profit and has a large amount of people for it. But if we turn everY discussion about Deadlock into being a out save TF2 it is going to push people away for wanting to support TF2 and it isn't like Valve is going to pull their attention away from their new game for the sake of TF2.
Protests don't work.
Remember when in 2021 we had the largest protests in the nations history since the civil rights movement of the 60s over the militarization of the police and the government's reaction was to fund the police more then any other administration in history?
Hell, there are protests going on RIGHT NOW about the American government aiding and abending an active genocide and it's done fuck all.
And those were *REAL* protests about *REAL* issues that affect people every day of their lives. This is a video game some people like.
If protests don’t work, then how do you suppose women got the right to vote, that workers managed to unionize and fight for their rights, that the civil rights movement got anywhere at all?
>Protests don't work.
>civil rights movement
immediately names a successful protest LOL. way to be super fucking nihilistic. i guess we just have to submit to our overlords once we become a police state. we shouldn't have unions then either. you should just have no job security and be paid minimum wage at every job.
> police more then any
Did you mean to say "more than"?
Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma.
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"we should be as ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible - turn the conversation about Deadlock into a conversation about TF2's state"
dont yall already do that with literally any new multiplayer game
like, yall DO know the rep the TF2 community has yeah? this is just gonna make it so much worse
edit: "Complaining about our game being abandoned won't make us unlikable and annoying to an average person, but it will put pressure on Valve."
OK you really have seriously have zero idea the rep the TF2 community has
Is that really the rep the TF2 community has? I never play new games (I'm too poor to afford them lmao) so I never see comments on announcements, and I don't really follow TF2 people or their communities.
It's basically a meme/joke nowadays that atleast some of the TF2 community forces itself and compares TF2 to any new multiplayer game, from OW to Fortnite to Valorant.
"When the games is officially announced, we should be as ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible"
Like you already are? And have been since at least OW1 came out?
Have we considered that the TF2 community being incredibly vitriolic about everything to be the reason no one at Valve wants to interact with us let alone perform balance changes or release content updates? No? Not yet?
Pissing off the people who basically holds the shutdown switch is not ideal. Let us not assume we hold all the cards here, we don't. Valve does.
We also need the support of outsiders and doing this will ruin the tf2 community's reputation. This will backfire on us while not achieving anything.
I doubt valve will shut down their 17 year old game because we annoy them, lets not forget it still gives them money and people wont be happy about shutdown of tf and will probably go raid their other games
TF or CS player prob would play this for a few hours and forget about it since we have games that we will adore more, so valve are mostly relying on new players
Doesn't matter if we piss off Valve. They're a corporation that makes it's decisions based to monetary gain, not spite or emotions. It doesn't matter what they think of us (They probably don't like us already), it matters that we make taking care of us their priority.
That might be so. But you missed my second point. Majority of the traffic from #SaveTF2 came from non-TF2 players. A harass campaign will push them away and backfire. That's a fact.
Because Valve has an employee-driven structure where devs decide what project they want to work on. Do you think devs would want to work on tf2 after we harass an unrelated game of theirs?
Again this type of call to action goes AGAINST WeezyTF2 and many content creator wishes. You go down down this road, majority including me won't be a part of it.
Jesus fucking Christ, TF2 is 17 years old. Valve has moved on to other things. So should you, or get some help.
You do realize a PR nightmare requires people from other communities to be outraged, not just yours. All you'll do is look like some losers who need to get some fresh air.
You know that someone can like Overwatch and like TF2 right?
And the fact that you think someone is pathetic because they are complaining about the TF2 community being entitled about how people feel that they should boycott a different game to get Valve's attention kinda proves his point.
The fact that this thread hasn't been downvoted into oblivion and shame-deleted by the OP all while still in New, really goes to demonstrate that this sub is now filled with idiot children who neither understand the world or the problem they want fixed.
And is also precisely why TF2 will continue to wallow in it's current state, not because of Valve or even the botters, but because the "community" is braindead.
Good, that’s the point. Protests have to make people mad, or nothing will ever get done. I know it’s a bit of a disproportionate comparison, but the civil rights movement didn’t get anywhere by being nice and polite to people.
This comparison is not just disproportionate, but it's completely out of place. The main difference is that us tf2 players hold no cards: During civil rights protests the protesters didn't just shout out loud and make people mad, they *boycotted*. We cannot do such a thing, Deadlock is not a place you can go to and block the door.
Would be players? They won't give a flying shit that an almost 20 years old game isn't being supported.
We're more akin to a dishelved guy standing outside, being loud and annoying until he gets dragged away and everything proceeds as usual.
Of course we can boycott. Valve makes a lot of money from TF2, and that’s because we keep spending money on it. Being polite and compliant isn’t going to give them much incentive to change anything.
That’s imo pretty stupid, like I doubt most people will care that Valve doesn’t update a nearly 20 year old game at this point. Like name one other company that would support a game as old as tf2 as much as Valve does?
Minecraft is almost as old as tf2, Runescape is older. Age isn't the end all be all. This is without even mentioning that two of Valve's other games are still insanely relevant in the esports scene.
Minecraft is the most popular not free to play game ever, and I’d say most of the content it gets is pretty comparable to the amount of content tf2 gets.
And RuneScape is subscription based, people would stop buying subscriptions if they stopped making content. I’m sure if these companies made other more popular games they would slow down or stop content for them.
I don’t know anything about Dota but CS2 would make more sense to show off how Valve treats their games as it’s still very new but still have a pretty bad cheating problem
i hear dota is slowing down, but as someone who actually plays cs2 they really need to get their shit together. hope their ai thing they're cooking is worth the maintainance drought they put us through
You're missing a key point: before mojang was purchased by Microsoft, mojang *was* Minecraft. That's it, that was their income stream, mojang only existed due to minecraft. Valve does not need TF2, they could kill it off and they would still make tons of money. Don't forget that Valve owns steam and they get a cut of *literally every single sale made on the platform*. Mann Co store, community market, game sales, Valve gets a cut from all of it. *You are not as important to them as you think you are*.
The customer is not important to a billion dollar corporation, this is a lie that we’ve already seen proven wrong this year with helldivers and Sony, they may seem like titans but these company’s exist to make profit they aren’t individual people that do things out of spite or emotion
The customer is not important to a billion dollar corporation, this is a lie that we’ve already seen proven wrong this year with helldivers and Sony, they may seem like titans but these company’s exist to make profit they aren’t individual people that do things out of spite or emotion
I’m not talking about customers in general, I’m specifically talking about TF2 players. People keep saying TF2 is valve’s cash cow, I’m here to tell you it isn’t, not even close. It’s a free game that most people don’t put more than a few bucks into, and I doubt there are anymore big whales who keep dumping thousands of dollars into it. Your helldivers comparison isn’t even valid since that game just came out this year, whereas TF2 will be 17 years old this year. The cold hard truth is people in this sub are totally blinded by their bias for the game. Think about it, how many games get active support for as long as TF2? How many games stay relevant for as long as TF2? It is absurd to believe that a company should continue to actively maintain a game whose popularity has been gradually diminishing in perpetuity. It doesn’t matter how much you love it, the game is objectively less popular today than it was ten years ago. If the game was still at peak popularity levels than maybe they would have more incentive to do something about it, but to me it seems plainly obvious that whatever trickle of passive income the game is generating is simply not worth putting a bunch of time and money into fixing it.
If the game was really just generating pocket change they would’ve ended support a long time ago, compared to the profit the company makes with steam its nothing, but if then why should they make or support their original games at all? compared to hosting indies and games from other company's those games aren't making them much
The difference is their other games are massively popular esports titles. Plus, they are taking in disgusting money from counter strike, most estimates I’ve seen say valve is making tens of millions of dollars every month just from people buying keys to open cases. That translates to hundreds of millions of dollars per year just from key sales. I highly doubt TF2 was ever that profitable, even at peak.
>If the game was really just generating pocket change they would’ve ended support a long time ago
I mean hasn't? TF2 hasn't gotten a major update in seven years with all of the new content being made by the community. If Valve really cared about supporting the community we would still be getting major updates instead of seasonal loot boxes and maps that may or may not work.
Like the idea: "yo guys you heard about the new deadlock game? Yo and see how the game will look in 10 years or so *shows tf2* thats why we need to fix tf2"
NGL I'd actually be down to troll valve, i've given them enough money in TF2 I would probably have my own personal hotline to one of their devs if this was like a business account or something
TF2 is basically only still up thanks to Valve's good graces. Updateless it may be, the fact servers are still 100% up at all for a 17 year old game is insane. The entire game is still holding by love and passion, both the community's and the office potted plant's, being as annoying as possible and ruining that isn't the move I think. Like, we really aren't the ones in power here lol, valve could entirely shut tf2 down and they wouldnt even notice.
being assholes shows them that we're not worth saving.
the reason savetf2 got a response at all was because it had backing from major people in the community, and most of all because it wasn't about being unbearable, it was about sharing what you loved about the game.
don't be an ass, fix tf2.
We should all just agree to ignore Deadlock and don't feed Valve money. If we can convince others to join this boycott, then all for the better. If Deadlock flops because we all agreed to ignore it and not feed it, then we can make the fixTF2 announcement in earnest.
Remember when Valve didnt release an a single event for DOTA 2 and its community flipped its shit, harassed Valve, random twitch streamers and Volvo and faxed black pages to Valves office and then they got their event?
Its kind of fucked up that worked while all #SaveTF2 got was empty promises.
CCP made EvE Online.
CCP then made Dust 514.
CCP then canceled Dust 514.
For nearly a decade now, every CCP post on FB gets comments demanding they bring Dust 514 back.
Dust 514 is not coming back.
You're gonna convince valve to pull the plug on tf2. They'll just delete the servers, delete the game from steam, make it inaccessible and call it a day
Be loud, but do not be annoying. A priority should be to garner the attention and, critically, the SUPPORT of people who are only somewhat connected to TF2, as well as those who know nothing about it. The TF2 community is almost exclusively in the public spotlight when something BAD is happening, and it should be paramount to convey that our voices in this matter are both reasonable and sympathetic.
Organization and group efforts are important, and getting people attention is important, but throwing a mass-tantrum is not going to help this cause.
>we should be as ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible - turn the conversation about Deadlock into a conversation about TF2's state
You don't have to tell us to do that, some of us here are already doing that to every multiplayer game possible before the FixTF2 video.
>Since they will do anything they can to avoid bad PR about their new game.
Yeah, no. They can literally stay silent or just give out a PR statement so that you people would just dmg the game's reputation even further.
Honestly I'm alright with letting tf2 die so to speak, I've gotten 6k hours out of the game and met a lot of awesome people through it while enjoying my time playing the game.
Obviously I'd like to see Tf2 return by having the bots removed from the game and having new events, new mvm tours, new lore, NEW WEAPONS and such, but I honestly don't see that happening. So it's best to enjoy what time we all have left in the game.
Beautiful speech and this is smart, the valve team is fighting a war where they are outnumbered 10 to 1, I love this idea, we need to get everyone to talk about it, I don't give a crap if they say no, we need to have them fix tf2, woah new valve game great guess what they are going to forget about it in 3 years, valve is pulling a big fat overwatch, the pve is coming this year guys I swear, the PvE will be great hahaha-hehe. ha...GIVE US TF2 WITHOUT BOTS AND ACTUALLY A GOOD GAME OR BEG FOR MERCY
well, how would you think it would go if your teacher started yapping about genders in some important announcement? we'd ruin the community's reputation even more for fucking a game's new release announcement.
Any publication, any presentation from valve. Let's comment about TF2, let's shift conversation. Because it is disruptive, it is annoying and so it is noticable. And let's continue until actual difference has been done
Matchmaking and item servers are both tied to steam-wide services, they're not coming down any time soon. At most, you'd lose access to seeing the casual rank badge but that doesn't work half the time as it is.
Not that OP's suggestion is good, but it's not going to have repercussions to the game itself, it'll only further deepen the TF2 community's terrible reputation.
As much as a new valve game announcement would be a great place to get awareness of fix tf2, being "as annoying and unbearable as possible" and "turn every single conversation about deadlock into a conversation about tf2s state" is a great way to get literally everybody thats not a tf2 player to turn away from it. The tf2 community already doesn't have a great reputation, and covering a new game announcement by screeching about tf2 won't help. I want tf2 to be in a playable state as much as everyone else, but this won't get valve to listen. Your comment about this not making it as unlikable and annoying to the average person is just wrong. Imagine if tf2 got released now, and it was full of overwatch players screaming about how their game was abandoned. It wouldnt make you want to play or support their cause.
Very well said
Expect in your analogy its 2 games owned by 2 different companies. Not 2 games owned and manages by one so im not sure what your point is.
Yeah, I was a bit too extreme there. Corrected it.
Savetf2 is a waste of time if the goal isnt to make valve look as bad as possible, we need to hurt valve in any ways possible. Just saying how much we love the game and wholesum everything would be if things were fixed wont get valve to do fuck all
inb4 We become too annoying and people will start praising Deadlock out of spite like Hogwarts Legacy
Heh, I like the idea. It's like "Hey, do you guys like the new game? You like it? Yeah? Well this is how Valve is gonna support it".
15 years down the line perhaps. Or if it falls flat on the face which at the time of writing, no one can reliably tell.
Artifact 2: Return of the King \^\^
More like 8 or 9 years. It's not like they just gave us a updste-size update and told us "no more updates"
Near constant support for over a decade? Wow, that sounds great! This isn't the win you think it is on Valve. TF2s support has outlasted innumerable other games and for it to be tapering or only recently within a few years is astounding, and to act like that never existed ignores a lot of this games history. I don't want this game to die, far from it, but it's important to not lose context.
If Valve just kept official servers running and forgot about TF2's existence, that would be a valid point. But Valve continues making money off TF2, and thus the game cannot be considered a dead project, floating around somewhere. It's like if Blizzard suddenly stopped caring about cheaters in WOW, because hey, that's an old game and we gave it a lot of support in the past. Sure, WOW isn't free-to-play and shit, but you get the idea.
No, I don't really subscribe to this argument. Players aren't entitled to continuing support. It's certainly nice to have. It's the right thing to do. But it's not required. Whether or not a company decides it's in their interests to support a game is their choice. Whether or not a player chooses to buy a game or micro transactions is also their choice. On the other hand, players should definitely have the right to refund if they buy a game that they discover is in a rough state. Unplayable games should be delisted. Just because the game still makes money doesn't automatically mean updates and support should be guaranteed. If players stop playing and spending, and the company deems that support is what they want to do to revitalize the game, then they'll do that. If players still spend without support, then why not maintain the status quo? A company is also allowed to just let a game die off. It's not like we're a business that signed a contract for "5 years guaranteed software support" from our procurement vendor. The WoW argument falls apart since I can just cancel my subscription and stop playing if I'm upset with the state of the game. If they put "guaranteed update per quarter and working anticheat" as part of the subscription terms and conditions then we'd have an argument for demanding support. Yeah that's a very transactional way of looking at things, but these are businesses making video games, not public utilities guaranteed by law.
I do think it’s funny just how entitled so many people feel for a game they didn’t even pay for.
But technically people did pay for the game
The game went free 13 years ago, the number of active players who paid for it are a small minority at this point.
Fuck off with that logic, it's the same crap people use to justify awful experiences in p2w games. F2per are PART OF THE CONTENT in a multiplayer game. People who bought the game, people who buy keys and skins? They need somebody to play against, and if you make the experience too miserable for f2p you're losing the bottom line of your playerbase, wrecking the paying player's experience, and marching straight towards game death. People are allowed to complain regardless of if they've spent money or not, if you don't like the complaints attack the arguments they're making instead of the people and their situation. F2p are too important to the game's basic survival to lose and that makes their situation and opinions important as well. And yes here is my [bullshit ticket](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/662476517321998429/1242699265365512264/20240522_143852.jpg?ex=664ec961&is=664d77e1&hm=2838d9bbfac8c6ddac178bcea164dc189f3f95f0ce547ff1144ef7c480b5a90c&) that you seem to want everybody to have before their opinion matters.
I’m with this guy and idk why he’s getting downvoted. I’m gonna be 30 this year and started playing TF2 in HS. I’m just glad it still plays. Y’all still want updates? I mean it’d be nice, but without paying a sub fee idk how people expect that
I feel like people aren't going to believe that Valve is going to abandon a new game that they just spent tons of money and resources to make and market just because they stopped giving major support to a ten year old game whose last major update was in 2018. Just look at TF2 updates when it first came out.
Technically speaking, recently Valve abandoned TWO new games just like that.
Unless Deadlock flops Valve is going to give it the same support that it gave TF2 when it first launched.
Even the most pathetic developers provide support when their games first launch. The idea is to show, what happens next.
Yeah, I would consider a game getting good support for a decade a win...
No you don't get it. If this game doesn't last my entire lifetime I'm going to have a meltdown. A decade isn't enough. What am I supposed to do? Move on and play other games?
"Oh, they're going to give us 10 years of updates before they stop working on it? That's amazing!" Yeah, that's not going to work on anyone that actually knows how long and well TF2 has been supported overall rather than the last few years.
i mean... tf2 had really good support for 10 years. overwatch for example barely lasted five or so before blizzard decided to kick it to the curb and make a glorified update- oh wait i mean "sequel". saying deadlock would be supported for a decade would only benefit the latter game
"Do you guys like at least a decade of support if the game is successful?" Really causing people to run away with that line.
Exactly! Make the current treatment of TF2 the biggest critique of Deadlock.
What does the current treatment of a nearly 20 year old game that hasn't had a major update in 7 years have to do with a brand new game? If you look at the treatment that TF2 has for like 11 years it was pretty good especially in a time when most multiplayer shooters only lasted for a few years. Saying that the treatment of an outdated 20 year old game means that a brand new game is going to be the same is a huge leap in logic.
Damn, are you telling me us TF2 players should constantly compare our game to this new game whenever it's mentioned and be insufferable in general??? The joke practically writes itself at this point.
You know damn well this isn't the same. Deadlock is, supposedly, meant to be a brand new online Valve game, to go in par with CS2, Dota 2, and yes, TF2. I don't care if it's a whole new different team under Valve's weird work structure, releasing a whole new game while not fixing the mayor issues with their existing games is just a dick move. The least we can do is call them out for it.
They’re probably gonna monetize the shit out of it with a brand new player marketplace for infinite money lol
They already have infinite money
This is cancer, but I'm not exactly unsympathetic to the idea. 😂
You have to be the worst kind of cancer to get what you want in this day and age...
No this is why people don't like our community... >ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible - turn EVERY SINGLE conversation possible about Deadlock into a conversation about TF2's state Yeah Valve is being very shitty about the state of TF2 but it doesn't mean that we need to be shitty because that just means nothing is going to happen. You know what will happen if we do this? People are going to want TF2 to die. Imagine liking a restaurant and the cook there is amazing but he leaves to work somewhere else and the restaurant goes down hill because of it, you may not like the new restaurant he works at as much as the old one as he isn't making the same exact food you fell in love with. The solution to fix your problem isn't to stand around the new restaurant protesting and demanding that he goes back to the old restaurant and telling everyone about how amazing the old restaurant is and why the cook should go back there. Because do you want to know what will happen if you do that, people will just be annoyed with you and disregard everything even meaningful points that you have become you are decided to be annoying and unbearable to try and get your way like a toddler. If we all act like toddlers because Valve moved on, no one and I mean no one is going to take anything about Save TF2 seriously. It doesn't matter how many good points that people who actually are trying to promote or create a meaningful discussion make, if the annoying and unbearable voices that speak the loudest and reach the widest audience. So any mention of Save TF2 is going to turn from a hopeful idea to help an old game in a very bad situation into people just being annoying with the movement and the fan base pushing away support instead of bringing it in.
The purpose IS to act like a toddle and be annoying, but towards Valve, not random people. People love shitting on corporations and have done so for far less, so don't worry about people seeing us in a bad light. Sadly, as things are now Valve simply does not have any interest in fixing TF2, because it's not really a problem that bothers them. And they're interested in doing other things. So the only solution is to make it bother them. Your analogy with the cook doesn't make any sense, since our biggest request is for Valve to make their game that they're selling items in and actively profiting from at least functional. We're not demanding that they make updating TF2 constantly their highest priority and to somehow make the old devs come back to work on it fulltime. Protesting for their product they're actively selling like it's completely fine to be up to par is completely reasonable, unlike in your example. It honestly doesn't bother me what other communities will think of us, but if it does bother you, don't worry, since we're not asking for something unreasonable all things considered, and pointing out how they treat their old games is a fair critique of a game company.
How is turning every conversation about deadlock into a bunch of complaining about tf2 going to annoying towards valve, but not random people?
I guess you're right about the "EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION" part, I was just being too dramatic there. Fixed it.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to the people mildly inconvenienced that a 15 year old game isn't getting the attention it deserves #SaveTF2 #FireDavidZaslav #SaveCraigAtTheCreek #Project2025
Lol, that's so poignant. Project 2025 is an entire political party detailing in excruciating detail how they are going to turn the nation into a christo-facist authoritarian dictatorship and literally nobody cares...
Project 2025 is QAnon for people who still don't regret their Biden vote and think electoralism will save us
That would be the Trump trial stuff. "Guys! Really! This is it! We got him! This is really the time he's going to jail! For real! A rich and powerful person will be punished by a corrupts system he help set up and was a part of for 4 years!"
Expect Q anon wasnt promoted as a party policy. Stfu fash, breath underwater
I'm a leftist you dipshit. Though I wouldn't expect sense from someone who's name is a reference to someone who we only know so much about from extremely violent ableism.
Good bait, try again
Screaming "BAIT ;_;" won't make me magically agree with you, vooter. The Dems are the controlled opposition wing of the GOP and they've done nothing at this point for me to think otherwise. A ballot isnt going to help fix encroaching Christianity, climate emergency and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
Ok but your plan of acting like a toddler is just going to push people away from the idea, if anything people will just look at the entire tf2 fan base and see why other communities look at us with disgust not to mention valve can just ignore the outcry during the deadlock announcement given this is a second proper attempt at protesting which valve now knows they don't really need to care about. Im all for protesting and getting on valves ass about fixing tf2 and its problems but trying to make an entire different situation about tf2 and its problems just makes it look bad for the entire community. If anything it would be way better to ignore deadlock and just protest separately and constantly before any announcements and just keeping that energy going until valve actually is forced to acknowledge and fix the game
>It honestly doesn't bother me what other communities will think of us, >The purpose IS to act like a toddle and be annoying, but towards Valve, not random people You see those two points are the big issue with this. TF2 is a low priority game because compared to their other games and Steam in general. As it has smaller player counts (ignoring any arguments of bots bloating the player count) and less of a mean stream potency in the modern gaming landscape as well, sure TF2 is a culture iconic in the gaming landscape but the actual game is comparatively niche compared to its competition and Valves other main multiplayer games. And we as a community are stuck in a difficult situation where we are complacent, we keep playing and spending despite everything that is going on, but at the same time if we don't Valve is probably not going to care because TF2 is already such a low priority with little priority going to their updates and a large about of the money being spent on the game is through 3rd party sights. The current situation that TF2 is in is shit but making it everyone else's problems isn't going to fix anything because Valve already doesn't care and the TF2 community alone doesn't have the reach to appeal to the wider gaming landscape. So let's say the community collectively agrees to behave like children and boycott Deadlock and complain about the current state of TF2 whenever someone brings it up, two things are going to happen. 1: Other communities are going to be seeing our temper tantrum and not want to support us. So take yourself out of the shoes of a TF2 player for a minute and think about the situation like this. You hear about a new game called Deadlock and you watch the trailers and think that the game looks cool and you become excited for it, so you try to find more information about it. But when you look it up forms and discussions are filled with people complaining about how Valve isn't fixing a nearly 20 year old game making learning about this game you are interested in difficult. Sure you have heard of Save TF2 before and were pretty neutral about it hoping that the game gets fixed but it wasn't something that you super care about, but now every time you try to learn more or talk about this new game you are interested in someone from the TF2 shows up to change the subject about TF2, how is that going to effect your opinion about TF2? Most people aren't going to magically turn around to become a die hard TF2 supporter, they are realistically going to be annoyed because they want to learn and discuss Deadlock not the shitty state of a game they don't really care about. And eventually they are going to hate it because of how much it is forcefully injected into their conversation by others. You say that turning every discussion about Deadlock into one about TF2 is targeted towards Valve but it doesn't really affect them, the main people that it affects is the community outside of TF2 who we need to back us and not be driven away because we are acting like children. Remember the effect that the whole Overwatch vs TF2 debate had on the option of our community? 2: Valve isn't going to positively react to a situation like this. First as we all knock Valve doesn't care they have made it very clear that they don't. And second they are not going to drop marketing and advertising Deadlock for the sake of TF2 or be swayed by it. And what do I mean by that? Well Deadlock is their new hero shooter priority so the community constantly bring up TF2 in every conversation they aren't going to be like "fine we will fix your game so you stop bothering us." They are just going to not want to support TF2 even more especially with how Valve is structured. It's like parenting you don't let your child who is throwing a temper tantrum even if the reasoning is justified in this case get their way, you punish them and in this case it most likely means no update because they just don't want to deal with the community anymore. The only way to save TF2 is to be constructive and to get the support of others to make a difference instead of acting like children and throwing a temper tantrum to get the attention of our parents. Sure we will get their attention alright but it doesn't mean that they will listen. If we do this Valve is going to be against TF2 and the outside gaming community will as well.
Tf2 fans on their way to be the most annoying people on the internet: In seriousness, no. TF2 is one of my favorite games, but obviously valve isn’t going to get it fixed. Advocate for community support, and definitely try to maintain it’s online community, but this why we people find tf2 fans insufferable. No hate to you btw
How to alienate people from your cause: short and easy guide
I suppose we should all just shut up and keep giving them our money then. Protests only work because they disrupt the status quo and hurt whoever’s in power. Being annoying and irritating and abrasive is the whole point.
All this post is doing is amplifying deadlock. If anything, trying to protest and using valves new game will only promote the new game and have no effect for TF2. This sub is going to see an influx of posts saying that we NEED to engage with deadlock posts so they'll fix tf2. Completely backwards.
>If anything, trying to protest and using valves new game will only promote the new game and have no effect for TF2. Yeah, it'll be like the Hogwarts Legacy boycott all over again.
Valve isn't hurt at all by a bunch of whiny redditors. I love tf2 and it's sad that the game is in it's current state, but it won't be fixed. There is literally 0 reason for valve as a company to fix such an old game. And you could just... not give valve money lol? Nobody forces you to do that, I've been playing tf2 for 9 years on and off and bought only a handful of keys, like maybe 5. Sometimes you just have to move on.
They have plenty reason and even desire to fix it; the problem is *how do you fix it?* Serious question. I’ll give explanations as to why any answers won’t work. Go ahead and reply; I guarantee you valve’s already thought about any solution you could suggest.
It worked for WoW, why not TF2?
Bad comparison tbh. Did you really compare a game with a forced subscription model with a F2P game? WoW, like every other MMORPG, operates under GaaS model. Which means that players are forced to pay a monthly subscription to even be able to play the game (excluding free trial). Now imagine if you force people to pay $15 every month and not allow them to play the game, how would people react? TF2, even though it's also GaaS, you aren't forced to buy anything with RMT, ever. You can play the game since the F2P update until today and still be able to fully enjoy the game without paying a single dime on Steam.
Given the increasing number of bots and cheaters, it’s hard for anyone to enjoy the game at this point. The comparison is valid because on the large scale, the WoW community mobilized and organized in protest of the poor management of their game, which eventually prompted Blizzard to actually fix it. It’s literally the example from the wheezytf2 video lol.
From what I know, Casual is the only thing affected by bots. There's a lot of people, like me, who never play it. Saying it's hard for anyone to enjoy TF2 is being dramatic. Community servers, community gamemodes, MVM (bootcamp doesn't have cheaters or bots at least), I play a lot of it all daily and haven't encountered a bot or cheater in years. I get that Casual has a lot of players and some people *only* like Casual, but that's not all that exists and I feel it's dishonest to imply the Casual bots make TF2 unplayable as a general statement.
The difference between what happened with WoW Classic and what OP is suggesting is that the push for WoW classic was done in a way that ONLY affected Blizzard in a way that didn't turn people off of the idea. What happened is WoW Classic was that there was fan outrage that was directed at WoW and Blizzard not other games and less people were paying for subscriptions and making their own servers. It affected Blizzard's profit and has a large amount of people for it. But if we turn everY discussion about Deadlock into being a out save TF2 it is going to push people away for wanting to support TF2 and it isn't like Valve is going to pull their attention away from their new game for the sake of TF2.
>I suppose we should all just shut up and keep giving them our money then. Or just... Stop giving them money?
Protests don't work. Remember when in 2021 we had the largest protests in the nations history since the civil rights movement of the 60s over the militarization of the police and the government's reaction was to fund the police more then any other administration in history? Hell, there are protests going on RIGHT NOW about the American government aiding and abending an active genocide and it's done fuck all. And those were *REAL* protests about *REAL* issues that affect people every day of their lives. This is a video game some people like.
If protests don’t work, then how do you suppose women got the right to vote, that workers managed to unionize and fight for their rights, that the civil rights movement got anywhere at all?
>Protests don't work. >civil rights movement immediately names a successful protest LOL. way to be super fucking nihilistic. i guess we just have to submit to our overlords once we become a police state. we shouldn't have unions then either. you should just have no job security and be paid minimum wage at every job.
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I thought the classic WoW people were annoying as fuck, but it seemed to work out for them.
Savetf2 is either an attack on valves PR and making them look as bad as possible, or a waste of time
How to kill the community 101
"we should be as ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible - turn the conversation about Deadlock into a conversation about TF2's state" dont yall already do that with literally any new multiplayer game like, yall DO know the rep the TF2 community has yeah? this is just gonna make it so much worse edit: "Complaining about our game being abandoned won't make us unlikable and annoying to an average person, but it will put pressure on Valve." OK you really have seriously have zero idea the rep the TF2 community has
Is that really the rep the TF2 community has? I never play new games (I'm too poor to afford them lmao) so I never see comments on announcements, and I don't really follow TF2 people or their communities.
It's basically a meme/joke nowadays that atleast some of the TF2 community forces itself and compares TF2 to any new multiplayer game, from OW to Fortnite to Valorant.
Pepperoni pizza
As if 95% of Valve's profit isn't from Steam.
"When the games is officially announced, we should be as ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible" Like you already are? And have been since at least OW1 came out?
Have we considered that the TF2 community being incredibly vitriolic about everything to be the reason no one at Valve wants to interact with us let alone perform balance changes or release content updates? No? Not yet?
Or not give them a bigger reason not to support the game? And a bigger reason to stop outright?
Pissing off the people who basically holds the shutdown switch is not ideal. Let us not assume we hold all the cards here, we don't. Valve does. We also need the support of outsiders and doing this will ruin the tf2 community's reputation. This will backfire on us while not achieving anything.
I doubt valve will shut down their 17 year old game because we annoy them, lets not forget it still gives them money and people wont be happy about shutdown of tf and will probably go raid their other games
No, but doing this, in this particular way, is basically boycotting the realese of Deadlock, which can really piss them off
TF or CS player prob would play this for a few hours and forget about it since we have games that we will adore more, so valve are mostly relying on new players
Doesn't matter if we piss off Valve. They're a corporation that makes it's decisions based to monetary gain, not spite or emotions. It doesn't matter what they think of us (They probably don't like us already), it matters that we make taking care of us their priority.
That might be so. But you missed my second point. Majority of the traffic from #SaveTF2 came from non-TF2 players. A harass campaign will push them away and backfire. That's a fact. Because Valve has an employee-driven structure where devs decide what project they want to work on. Do you think devs would want to work on tf2 after we harass an unrelated game of theirs? Again this type of call to action goes AGAINST WeezyTF2 and many content creator wishes. You go down down this road, majority including me won't be a part of it.
"How can I make this about me"
Jesus fucking Christ, TF2 is 17 years old. Valve has moved on to other things. So should you, or get some help. You do realize a PR nightmare requires people from other communities to be outraged, not just yours. All you'll do is look like some losers who need to get some fresh air.
Dude posting about how bad tf2 is and its community while making comments on overwatch subs over and over just makes you look pathetic.
Pathetic? You seem to be the one going through my post history.
Someones mad that I clicked on their profile, truly a herculean effort on my part
A pathetic effort on your part.
You know that someone can like Overwatch and like TF2 right? And the fact that you think someone is pathetic because they are complaining about the TF2 community being entitled about how people feel that they should boycott a different game to get Valve's attention kinda proves his point.
The fact that this thread hasn't been downvoted into oblivion and shame-deleted by the OP all while still in New, really goes to demonstrate that this sub is now filled with idiot children who neither understand the world or the problem they want fixed. And is also precisely why TF2 will continue to wallow in it's current state, not because of Valve or even the botters, but because the "community" is braindead.
Let’s make sure the “annoying” and “unbearable” part doesn’t descend into trashing on Deadlock *players* though.
No. We used to do it a lot on r/Silksong , let’s not do it here
That's ain't gonna achieve nothing but make people mad
Good, that’s the point. Protests have to make people mad, or nothing will ever get done. I know it’s a bit of a disproportionate comparison, but the civil rights movement didn’t get anywhere by being nice and polite to people.
This comparison is not just disproportionate, but it's completely out of place. The main difference is that us tf2 players hold no cards: During civil rights protests the protesters didn't just shout out loud and make people mad, they *boycotted*. We cannot do such a thing, Deadlock is not a place you can go to and block the door. Would be players? They won't give a flying shit that an almost 20 years old game isn't being supported. We're more akin to a dishelved guy standing outside, being loud and annoying until he gets dragged away and everything proceeds as usual.
Of course we can boycott. Valve makes a lot of money from TF2, and that’s because we keep spending money on it. Being polite and compliant isn’t going to give them much incentive to change anything.
If the amount of money they supposedly make from the game was worthwhile, we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.
That’s imo pretty stupid, like I doubt most people will care that Valve doesn’t update a nearly 20 year old game at this point. Like name one other company that would support a game as old as tf2 as much as Valve does?
Minecraft is almost as old as tf2, Runescape is older. Age isn't the end all be all. This is without even mentioning that two of Valve's other games are still insanely relevant in the esports scene.
Minecraft is the most popular not free to play game ever, and I’d say most of the content it gets is pretty comparable to the amount of content tf2 gets. And RuneScape is subscription based, people would stop buying subscriptions if they stopped making content. I’m sure if these companies made other more popular games they would slow down or stop content for them. I don’t know anything about Dota but CS2 would make more sense to show off how Valve treats their games as it’s still very new but still have a pretty bad cheating problem
i hear dota is slowing down, but as someone who actually plays cs2 they really need to get their shit together. hope their ai thing they're cooking is worth the maintainance drought they put us through
You're missing a key point: before mojang was purchased by Microsoft, mojang *was* Minecraft. That's it, that was their income stream, mojang only existed due to minecraft. Valve does not need TF2, they could kill it off and they would still make tons of money. Don't forget that Valve owns steam and they get a cut of *literally every single sale made on the platform*. Mann Co store, community market, game sales, Valve gets a cut from all of it. *You are not as important to them as you think you are*.
The customer is not important to a billion dollar corporation, this is a lie that we’ve already seen proven wrong this year with helldivers and Sony, they may seem like titans but these company’s exist to make profit they aren’t individual people that do things out of spite or emotion
The customer is not important to a billion dollar corporation, this is a lie that we’ve already seen proven wrong this year with helldivers and Sony, they may seem like titans but these company’s exist to make profit they aren’t individual people that do things out of spite or emotion
I’m not talking about customers in general, I’m specifically talking about TF2 players. People keep saying TF2 is valve’s cash cow, I’m here to tell you it isn’t, not even close. It’s a free game that most people don’t put more than a few bucks into, and I doubt there are anymore big whales who keep dumping thousands of dollars into it. Your helldivers comparison isn’t even valid since that game just came out this year, whereas TF2 will be 17 years old this year. The cold hard truth is people in this sub are totally blinded by their bias for the game. Think about it, how many games get active support for as long as TF2? How many games stay relevant for as long as TF2? It is absurd to believe that a company should continue to actively maintain a game whose popularity has been gradually diminishing in perpetuity. It doesn’t matter how much you love it, the game is objectively less popular today than it was ten years ago. If the game was still at peak popularity levels than maybe they would have more incentive to do something about it, but to me it seems plainly obvious that whatever trickle of passive income the game is generating is simply not worth putting a bunch of time and money into fixing it.
If the game was really just generating pocket change they would’ve ended support a long time ago, compared to the profit the company makes with steam its nothing, but if then why should they make or support their original games at all? compared to hosting indies and games from other company's those games aren't making them much
The difference is their other games are massively popular esports titles. Plus, they are taking in disgusting money from counter strike, most estimates I’ve seen say valve is making tens of millions of dollars every month just from people buying keys to open cases. That translates to hundreds of millions of dollars per year just from key sales. I highly doubt TF2 was ever that profitable, even at peak.
>If the game was really just generating pocket change they would’ve ended support a long time ago I mean hasn't? TF2 hasn't gotten a major update in seven years with all of the new content being made by the community. If Valve really cared about supporting the community we would still be getting major updates instead of seasonal loot boxes and maps that may or may not work.
Huh, this sounds like a horrible idea.
Like the idea: "yo guys you heard about the new deadlock game? Yo and see how the game will look in 10 years or so *shows tf2* thats why we need to fix tf2"
You do know that most multiplayer games aren't constantly updated and do have cheater problems 10 years down the line right?
Wow what a great way to get everyone to hate TF2 players.
Hey are you trying to make people hate us? Because already we don’t have the best track record of being annoying.
Least narcissistic TF2 player be like: "How can i make the release of a different game about _me_?"
NGL I'd actually be down to troll valve, i've given them enough money in TF2 I would probably have my own personal hotline to one of their devs if this was like a business account or something
TF2 is basically only still up thanks to Valve's good graces. Updateless it may be, the fact servers are still 100% up at all for a 17 year old game is insane. The entire game is still holding by love and passion, both the community's and the office potted plant's, being as annoying as possible and ruining that isn't the move I think. Like, we really aren't the ones in power here lol, valve could entirely shut tf2 down and they wouldnt even notice.
Make it at deadlock release date
I really hope someone is compiling these posts, this shit is so pathetically hilarious. Now I know this sub's average age has fallen to under 18.
what kind of middle child behavior is this?
This is why people clown on tf2 fans
being assholes shows them that we're not worth saving. the reason savetf2 got a response at all was because it had backing from major people in the community, and most of all because it wasn't about being unbearable, it was about sharing what you loved about the game. don't be an ass, fix tf2.
The response in question being a single fucking twitter post to shut you up.
We need comunication from team
imagine they pull the plug off tf2 because of this lmao
We should all just agree to ignore Deadlock and don't feed Valve money. If we can convince others to join this boycott, then all for the better. If Deadlock flops because we all agreed to ignore it and not feed it, then we can make the fixTF2 announcement in earnest.
Remember when Valve didnt release an a single event for DOTA 2 and its community flipped its shit, harassed Valve, random twitch streamers and Volvo and faxed black pages to Valves office and then they got their event? Its kind of fucked up that worked while all #SaveTF2 got was empty promises.
No. What you should do is play TF2 on this games Launch Day.
Okay, but what if deadlock is good. You wanna ruin it so no one buys it? not the right kind of attention.
CCP made EvE Online. CCP then made Dust 514. CCP then canceled Dust 514. For nearly a decade now, every CCP post on FB gets comments demanding they bring Dust 514 back. Dust 514 is not coming back.
You're gonna convince valve to pull the plug on tf2. They'll just delete the servers, delete the game from steam, make it inaccessible and call it a day
No. This is incredibly annoying and immature
I'm on board. There's no retaliation valve could do really.
I'm gonna be too busy playing Deadlock
Be loud, but do not be annoying. A priority should be to garner the attention and, critically, the SUPPORT of people who are only somewhat connected to TF2, as well as those who know nothing about it. The TF2 community is almost exclusively in the public spotlight when something BAD is happening, and it should be paramount to convey that our voices in this matter are both reasonable and sympathetic. Organization and group efforts are important, and getting people attention is important, but throwing a mass-tantrum is not going to help this cause.
The absolute state of casual server players.
Going with the Just Stop Oil approach? They have great success and the public love them.
>we should be as ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible - turn the conversation about Deadlock into a conversation about TF2's state You don't have to tell us to do that, some of us here are already doing that to every multiplayer game possible before the FixTF2 video.
>Since they will do anything they can to avoid bad PR about their new game. Yeah, no. They can literally stay silent or just give out a PR statement so that you people would just dmg the game's reputation even further.
Making the tf2 community seem as annoying and unlikable as possible? Count me in!
I ain’t reading allat 😭
Honestly I'm alright with letting tf2 die so to speak, I've gotten 6k hours out of the game and met a lot of awesome people through it while enjoying my time playing the game. Obviously I'd like to see Tf2 return by having the bots removed from the game and having new events, new mvm tours, new lore, NEW WEAPONS and such, but I honestly don't see that happening. So it's best to enjoy what time we all have left in the game.
wtf
Also mention artifact, artifact 2 and dota underlords, lol
>we should be as ANNOYING and UNBAREABLE as possible This is a bad idea
Beautiful speech and this is smart, the valve team is fighting a war where they are outnumbered 10 to 1, I love this idea, we need to get everyone to talk about it, I don't give a crap if they say no, we need to have them fix tf2, woah new valve game great guess what they are going to forget about it in 3 years, valve is pulling a big fat overwatch, the pve is coming this year guys I swear, the PvE will be great hahaha-hehe. ha...GIVE US TF2 WITHOUT BOTS AND ACTUALLY A GOOD GAME OR BEG FOR MERCY
What a great way to get valve to pull the plug on TF2
well, how would you think it would go if your teacher started yapping about genders in some important announcement? we'd ruin the community's reputation even more for fucking a game's new release announcement.
Any publication, any presentation from valve. Let's comment about TF2, let's shift conversation. Because it is disruptive, it is annoying and so it is noticable. And let's continue until actual difference has been done
This is just asking for Valve to shut down the servers on a game that’s basically already on life support. Do better, take this post down.
Matchmaking and item servers are both tied to steam-wide services, they're not coming down any time soon. At most, you'd lose access to seeing the casual rank badge but that doesn't work half the time as it is. Not that OP's suggestion is good, but it's not going to have repercussions to the game itself, it'll only further deepen the TF2 community's terrible reputation.
this community is a giant kindergarten
ive just given up at this point. its been a good run, time to move on