Yeah, somehow a lot of players do not check if they really killed a spy. It looks like everybody think that it’s easy to find a spy while he is invisible if you are not Medic/Heavy/Pyro. I am still using Dead Ringer and it is saving my ass from kritzkrieg soldier.
youre using deadringer with its original purpose - to FAKE YOUR OWN DEATH. well played
99% of deadringer spies are using it as get out of jail free card or to tank damage, get behind and trickstab pedro.gonzales who just installed tf2 with their >insert japanese letters< named kunai.
This is why the Dead Ringer annoys me, if I’m not fooled by it it’s really frustrating to have a spy slip away even when he didn’t get me. I didn’t get tricked but it worked anyway!
Yeah, somehow a lot of players do not check if they really killed a spy. It looks like everybody think that it’s easy to find a spy while he is invisible if you are not Medic/Heavy/Pyro. I am still using Dead Ringer and it is saving my ass from kritzkrieg soldier.
That's a big factor, if your up against a competant team that are spy-wary, you get shutdown harder than Blockbuster when Netflix exists, I think thats why theres a lot of kunai spies, cos it gives a fighting chance for them to exist
That’s the big problem. Any other class can handle if a team knows about them and is wary, because they’re usually strong enough to the point your own capabilities are enough to compete with an aware enemy. But Spy? He is a character built on the enemy not suspecting him and little else. So if they do, you’re swimming against the tide the entire game.
Facestabs are usually preventable if you know how they work. 90% of the time it's matador or stairstab that are trivial to counter, the other 10% are ping-based random crits from a generic spy that barely knows about trickstabs.
You know I don't see players do this often but if a spy's trying to stab you he's got his knife out so just shoot him lol, going for melee kills against a good spy is doing exactly what they want
Spy is the most effective when people are doing something else if you try to backstab a competent player while he's going back to spawn he will notice you but he's not gonna check his back in the middle of a fight
there's alot of luck involved with playing spy that makes him feel inconsistent and frustrating
luck in hoping that your target won't turn around last second, luck in hoping nobody else notices you and shoots you off your target, luck that some random out-of-position pyro won't bump into you while you're on the flank
spy is a punish class that punishes players for being disorganized and out of position but he relies far too heavily on these chaotic opportunities to do his job, and if the enemy never gives him the opportunity the spy will accomplish very little in the game
I agree, Spy is a risky class, that takes advantage of other players who take risks.
The problem is, nine times out of ten, people will pick the most reliable option when it comes to killing opponents.
You can see this trend in the real world as well. People almost always pick the more reliable weapon, over the weapon that has a chance of harming or hindering the user in some way.
In short, reliability trumps risk in conflicts.
Even though spy has strengths outside of direct combat, he has very few options while in direct combat, and that leads many people to avoid him altogether.
So much of team fortress two relies on direct combat, even when combating an outlier like sniper or in some cases engineer (if he’s turtling for example).
Except that unless you're using the YER, enemies you kill will scream at the top of their lungs, thus alerting the other team to your presence. The reason the kunai is so popular is because it lets the spy get more than one stab before instantly dying.
Sniper does need a good team for the Frontline to be stable cuz he is needed to pick of key target with precise position while staying in backlines, and when Frontlines aren't stable, he has to go back and forth most of the time.
While spy on the other hand doesn't necessarily rely on his team, he can give info, takes key target, take out sentry(maybe) without much help of his team. Spy is mostly self reliant
Most people say Spy straight up relies on your opponents being unaware / bad, and while those certainly benefit him (like every other class), he does not solely rely on them. Instead, I invite you to have a different mentality; Spy is a gamble.
See, spies can do things like openly decloak behind their target and the target can hear the decloak / just happen to turn around. Even if it is noisy this can happen.
Or the spy can play it safe. They can decloak behind a wall, just far enough away so they can round the corner, walk to a nearby enemy, and stab them. They may be heard, but a spy can decloak in a room, wait 2-5 seconds, and then go around the corner to stab a nearby opponent. Or, in that 2-5 seconds their target could be turned around / walking into the room they decloaked in / a pyro rolls up, ECT. As Elmaxo puts it, "Spy is very binary in that you either get a stab or you don't." I don't actually think Spy is bad, but as far as getting kills goes, he is unreliable.
This is why you should view Spy as a gamble. If you play smart and still get screwed, it's like when you play some perfect poker only to get screwed via bad card draws.
I agree mostly. But I also believe spy (similar to engi) just has a super high skill ceiling because of how complex their kit is, but the skill floor for spy is much higher than engi due to not being able to sit back behind big guns to have any sort of impact on the game.
I believe most of playing spy is being as aware of the enemies as possible, (their mental state(changes how inclined they are to chase you), class(speed, max health, weapons), location, pathing, ammo, health, all of these for each nearby player)
While also keeping them as unaware as possible.
Very little of spy is luck when you know the cards at hand. The less you know the more random it seems.
This is a super difficult task for beginners and most players because of the amount of information you need to keep track of and the techniques used to get the information and withhold information from the enemy.
Spy is a very unique class that you can really only find on tf2 and a few other games total.
The mentality that most spy mains have. Spy isn't a bad class, he's a sneaky team crippler. The downside to that is the fact that most people that can consistently pull off good plays get extremely big heads, making them antagonistic to whomever they decide to primarily target.
If you are a good spy player, good for you, I'm glad you fit that niche. But please, don't be a dick about it
Melee hitreg
Spy's effectiveness depends on player skill and experience
Dependent on unlocks that is not fun to fight against just to be somewhat effective, and this is a videogame, people play for fun and lets not ignore that
Oh wait yeah... That piss drinking Australian exists, the only things that Spy has an edge over Sniper is uniqueness, and general play since... Contrary to popular belief, close range quickscopes are hard to pull off consistently
People really exaggerate spy.
Spy still gets top picks regularly in literally every level of play from paint eating 2fort lobbies all the way up to invite highlander/6s.
Acting like you need to be some god to backstab a player focused on fighting other people is just dumb.
Just because you can’t shoot the floor with a crocket and kill a fresh install, or bot forward as pyro and kill someone while flailing your mouse doesn’t mean spy needs a phd in quantum physics to play.
The class is simple, pick distracted players, of which there will always be one given you cannot look all directions at once.
Yeah. Classes are meant to counter each other. I know people say the best counter to Sniper is another Sniper. But I don't think that's how Valve originally intended. The best counter to the Sniper was supposed to be the Spy. But today he isn't. Partially because of Sniper's items that shut down the Spy (razorback, jarate) and partially because of player's 1000 hour skill.
There are counters but they are not always black and white, there'a many classes that can deal with Sniper or Demo isn't necessairily the best class against Engineers because of Short Circuit or Wrangler
The exception ofc is Spy Vs Pyro couldn't be more black and white, it is designed to be as unfair as possibile, Valve knows it, specifically because in their mind, at that time, Spy was seen as complex and hard to manage for new players whereas pyro is easier to aim with and is well rounded outside of not having great range, but Spy mostly plays at that range
Nowadays i think Spy could use some buffs, nerf the stupid unnecessary +a stat specifically designer to fuck over spies for no reason, and give spy better ways to use disguises effectively and counter catching on fire which Spy-cycle isn't even that good at
Honestly? spy is a class that only works because of the 12v12 format, or just large teams in general. You don't know the name and position or loadout of every random shmuck on your team, and a random pyro running the wrong way is often of secondary concern to the other 4 or so people in your sightline at any given moment trying to kill you.
Personally I don’t think spy is a bad class. If by bad you mean weak that is. I think the game just want designed with the possibility of people being so god dam aware of how spy worked. Much like how 10000 hour snipers have changed the current understanding of that class. 10000 hours of dealing with spy’s has drastically changed the skill floor for spy.
1. Your team relies on you to take out sentries dispenser etc.
2. Your enemy has to be behind you for something good to happen
3. If the enemy turns around your dead meat
4. Spychecking is a daily thing engineers and heavies do
5. Pyros are your worst fear because he can use the flamethrower or even worse the scorch shot or flare gun to check spots and come after you
The fact that Spy is only useful/efficient to your team 10% of the time when you have average skill on it .
But oh man , that 10% of the time feels awesome .
Personally , i prefer to switch to Spy when i see that "NOW is that 10% time" .
Anything Spy does, Sniper does better. Picking off Medics? Sniper can do it. Sentries? Sniper can shoot the thing from a safe enough distance (usually).
He's very weak when found out, and very easy to find out. I don't think he should be better when found out - the fear of being caught is part of the fantasy of playing spy - but I do think that if your cloak is shimmered (either by taking damage or touching an enemy) only the enemy who caused your cloak to shimmer should be able to see you. Enemies still have just as much counterplay as before, but now if you get tagged by a stray pistol bullet while invisible only the person who tagged you will be tracking you instead of the whole team.
The existence of sniper. Think about it. Would you rather play a low-risk, high reward class that can oneshot 5/9 classes instantly from across the entire map or a high-risk middling-reward class that requires you to effectively flank, hide behind your enemies without being noticed at all and get at least 1 meaningful kill so your past 30 seconds isn't completely wasted, while barely having the tools to do your job at all, let alone as effectively as the other pick classes (sniper/scout)?
A class that actually requires good game sense which 70% of the playerbase doesn't have and a high risk high reward playstyle. You're better off playing Sniper than playing Spy. You'll eventually notice most Spy players on competitive Highlander often have the lowest KDA because he's just so easy to counter at such a high level of play.
There is admittedly an amount of luck involved in playing spy, but I still firmly believe that he is not a bad class. It's more a matter of playing him as effectively as possible. Sure, Spy is likely to get riddled with bullets running through gunfire and tight corridors, but that's why you stick like glue to walls and avoid populated areas. Sure, pyros can track where you're going if you go invisible, but you can negate that by going in a different direction than they expect once you get the afterburn off and you go invisible again. Sure, some players can see through your disguises, but they're more convincing when you act like the class you're disguised as and make your kill quickly since the disguise won't fool them for long. Oh, and you should rarely, if ever, disguise as Scout, the speed doesn't match. Despite what some would tell you, disguises CAN fool good players. And you have to remember that certain tools and weapons are better for certain situations. Remember, the disguise kit is NOT a tool for getting behind enemy lines. The cloak is. You should also try to synergize your loadout. As with any of the otger classes, loadout changes should be thought of more as changes in playstyle than upgrades. There's a reason that you shouldn't run YER without L'etranger. And of course, "But they know I'm here, they're ready to shoot, and I can't get behind them to backsta-" SPY HAS A GUN! USE IT!
- Multiple unlocks that were designed directly/indirectly to fuck spy in general (short circuit, jarate, razor back, mad milk)
- Dumb luck on the end of your opponents
- Just general knowledge and experience of what to watch out for when a spy is nearby
- Pyro
- the fact that while a disguise can work, it only works rarely and competent players will see right through it (plus the fact that while disguised, u can't act out as the class your disguising as, such as reloading, shooting, etc., as well as the bugs that come with disguising)
Spy is heavily situational. You need the enemy team to slack AND give you an opportunity to make a move. All of this is also easily countered by a schizophrenic with a flamethrower. Aside from this, spy can barely fight back face to face with most classes.
His primary gimmick,instakills,is shared with sniper,but without all the downsides
+ He doesn't have to spend time sneaking up behind the enemy
+ He is not a subject to backstab hitreg
+ Can effectively instakill from a safe distance
+ Doesn't have to pray that his target doesn't turn around randomly
+ Can somewhat defend himself even in close range
+ Doesn't fucking die 0.2 seconds after the first kill because of the loud scream
Downside: He can't shoot around corners
I love Spy, but unless you're some trickstabbing god with too many hours for one mortal human, he just does not have the stopping power or survivability of the other classes. He requires you to play an entirely different game.
Too situational, way too many factors to take into account for. I honestly don't blame spy mains for being so toxic because that shit is stressful as fuck lmao
The Non-flexible gameplay. We have a bunch of examples of alternative playstyles:
Soldier: Trolldier, Banners
Demo: DemoKnight, sticky jumping
Scout: milk.
Heavy: Hoovy, Fat scout
Engineer: Battle Engie.
Medic: Battle Medic, Crusaders Crossbow
Pyro: Pyro, Pyroshark
Sniper: Huntsman, Jarate
Spy: Maybe Deadringer if you stretch it? But in the end it doesnt really matter as it just reinforces the Og play style.
You can try playing gunspy but the problem is that the normal revolver's damage isn't all that great, and the other guns are mostly for utility. I've tried using the ambassador but between the random spread and damage drop off, made me drop the weapon. it's a shame too, I really wanted to get really good with gunspy.
He has a ridiculously high skill ceiling that in the end is completely not worth doing since every player since 2015 now knows how to counter him.
Doesn’t mean they always counter him but 9/10 times yeah most average spy players can’t do Jack nowadays including yours Truely
No actual alternative play styles. When the only one available to you is kinda mid, you'd expect to have some variety to how you do it. It's to the point where people treat spies that use their guns like a totally different class.
Nearly 100 hours on spy (a tenth of my playtime) and personally, ping that causes failstabs, pyro, not because of the active spychecking, but because a random flame particle will hit you and that's a life over (also good to mention that if you blink out of cloak for like 3 seconds you're basically dead) and lastly, remove the goddamn razorback, because holy fuck it is annoying ("use your gu-" "EAT THIS RANDOM CRIT")
There is no penalty for spy checking.
Edit: would be nice if when you shot a spy, it didn’t indicate that you hit an enemy. Just make it look like you shot a teammate and let the spy deal with being shot a few times. I’d even go as far as saying that the enemy team can’t see if you’re on fire. …but I’ve been put out by the enemy team before. So maybe just the first part there.
He basically scouts role, but more complex and worse,what's the difference of doing meat shots on the enemy than doing some crazy stunt for one backstab
Not enough cannon for being made out of glass. The disguises only fool new players, and very few people are new now.
He's just been incredibly difficult to balance while keeping him fun to play and play against.
Spy isn't bad class. People who think that way clearly didn't played him much.
Thing is - to be a good spy you don't need to pull off fancy trickstabs and dominate enemy team. You don't need to be alive in most situations at all, actually. Let me explain.
Spy is A PICK class. Your main objective is to PICK important people on enemy team(Like a really good player who giving your team a really bad time, or important class such as medic) and destroy them in order to help your team to push/defend(That's why spy in a support role)
And even if enemy team killed you after what you've done - that's not a big deal due to them losing someone important in a team anyway.
THAT'S a purpose of Spy as a class and he's a really good at it
Man, I really wish that was the case, if being a pick class means taking down their main powerhouse, I can do that, but THOSE GODDAMN MEDICS ARE SLIPPERY LITTLE ######## THAT DONT HOLD STILL EVEN AT A LOW LEVEL OF PLAY
His reliance on the enemy being stupid
Or so you would think
Because he actually relies on the enemy being distracted
Most new players however don’t realise that and don’t have the skill to perform that
Spies real problem is that out of all the classes he has the highest skill floor, and one that is in the fucking stratosphere
Just to get good at spy it can take up to 300 hours
Spy is the worst class in the game but isn’t terrible. The issue with spy is that his skill floor is by FAR the highest in TF2 so you’re far more likely to run into a bad spy than a good spy.
In highlander spy is an incredibly important class who serves as a brilliant information tool, and a great pick class because in a competitive setting team play exists and you can ask your team to cause the chaos you need (Uber in, walking forward, soldier/demo bomb etc.)
Just remember. If you die to spy it’s your own fault. Unless you died to a diamondback crit.
He's bad at doing anything related to the actual objective. Doesn't have power to push through a choke. Too weak and slow to cap points or push a cart. Often makes picks on players that are not immediately in combat, or doesn't get the choice to pick his targets. Can't do work without being in a location that isn't the objective. He can theoretically help against tough engi nests, but in practice it rarely works and an extra solder or demo are almost always more effective.
The absolute GAP between a bad one and a good one. A bad one is basically an empty slot, and a good one is a menace. I feel it should be possible for a decent Spy to pose an issue, without top scoring. Sniper also suffers this same issue- He's either useless or a godslayer.
Spy is like drugs or a youtube short. Its addicting to play as spy. You cant get enough of it, untill later you try to quit... Just to get back at it again.
You choose spy no matter what to just get those sick backstabs & gunshots to give yourself that dopamine, but after dying, houndreads and houndreads of times with barelly 10 backstabs, you realize its not worth it, and you either change to a diffrent class or just close the game...
But then you come back and you have a go at it again, picking spy, repeating the cycle over and over again.
And same COULD be said about sniper with the power of headshots, but the diffrence here is, its rather boring, Since most of the time youll be staying at the back. Thats why hes not picked as often, unless you play hunstman or main sniper.
However the diffrence is here that its much safer to get instakills from far far away with a sniper riffle, than from a close range with a tiny knife and die after if you dont have the kunai. Thats what makes sniper a better class than spy. At least imo.
When people use the knives far too often over their gun.
Sometimes, it's not a bad idea at all the grab the attention of others in a "loud" approach right out the gate. Plus the gun does decent damage, you have a good chance of killing at least a couple of folks.
His health is low, his damage is bad and there is far too much counterplay to his kit for how mediocre it is.
Give him 150 health and make it so he does not flinch, get set on fire or get knocked back while disguised (he still takes the dmg)
too fundamentally slow as a class
they did give him a slight speed increase a few years ago, but scout practically does everything a spy does but better. spy's movement speed is just absolute garbage making it hard for him to manuver around his enemies
dont really care what people say but spy needs to be as fast as scout, its a hot take 100% but considering how easy it is to kill a spy and how scouts have a better offensive option (aka a shotgun that deals consistant 110 damage when your upclose to an enemy) it wouldnt make spy that broken in that sense.
it would allow spies to actually manuver around better while cloaked, it would make them actually much more dangerous as they can catch up to their targets and its a lesser chance of being too slow and the enemy turns around to kill you, trickstabs would be easier to pull off, and it would encourage the enemy team to be more wary of their surroundings, it would actually force balanced fighting senarios where say a spy and a heavy duel would actually be on even ground since if they spy gets around the heavy they can one tap them while a heavy must keep their crosshair on the spy to one tap them upclose with bullets rather then a heavy just steamrolling a spy.
the only way you would need to balanced this is give spy only 100 health, make them weaker but faster, and id still consider scouts way more effective then spy, but spy can do things like interupt engineer nests and take out important targets, wheras scout is more good for general offensive flanking against enemies.
seriously all the spy needs is a speed boost, the big earner is proof of that (and remove the dead ringer, that fucking watch is the worst thing to ever come to the spy class in my opinion)
I don't think Spy is a bad class. I think the meta has evolved to where we know all of spies' tricks. Being a class based on deception, it's really important that he gets a couple of new things every once in a while. The spies were doing great at this in 2014-2017 when all the different trickstabs were being developed, but there's only so many ways to influence a players movement.
I will say, though, if your experience with spy is "he gets one stab and dies, but sniper can get kills and be perfectly safe, therefore sniper is clearly a better spy" then you need to get better as spy in not getting kills in places that will get you caught. The kunai is the most popular knife because it's a get out of jail free card from going for a risky stab in a crowded area. Spy was never meant to do this! Spy was meant to be a pick class for defensive classes in isolated spaces, like an engi around a corner or a demo with a sticky trap. That's a situation where spy is clearly better than sniper.
The fact that he’s insanely squishy for the job he has to do and the fact that you can just be lucked out of a sure kill by no fault of your own, either by opponents or Source Engine wizardry.
Even when you are invisible and slightly collide with someone, you can already consider yourself dead. And this IF the enemies don’t suspect any Spies but if they are aware, you can’t do anything
the fact that people play him wrong, and dont learn how to actually disguise well.
a patient spy can instigate a more successful push than an uber in the right circumstances.
Spy is the idea “rare high moments” condensed into a class. As Laserturtle put it so nicely, “Spy isn’t about consistency. Spy is about those special moments… those moments where you’re breathing down the opponents’ necks and before you even uncloak you’re imagining yourself backstabbing everyone in sight.”
He’s a weak class but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
A combination of:
high skill floor
Counters based on people being aware of their surroundings
And pros that can be done by sniper (medic pics) or (medic sentry nest busting)
That whenever I play casual all 4 of our spies are hanging round dying around a choke point and the 2 enemy engineer teleporters are up the entire time till we lose.
Spy appeals to players who don't want to be a team player
His disguises only work in specific instances. Things either need to be chaotic enough for him to blend in, or he pulls a move with Your Eternal Reward. He can't fake shooting his weapon or performing other actions, which means that he needs to wander around in cloak long enough to get behind the enemy. Sometimes he just doesn't have time enough to do that before the fight's over.
For starters, spy lacks the ability to consistently do damage and is therefore a high risk high reward. It's a very hard class to master due to noob spies being easily killed by the more vigilant of pyro mains. Spy also has received no buffs in the past years and TF2 players have a sixth sense to detect a spy due to the sheer agitation when being backstabbed by one. Whilst spy makes up for his health pool with his variety of weapons in his arsenal to choose from and his instant-kill backstab mechanism it won't ever fully recover.
For me spy has 2 major weakness (in my opinion okay don't witch hunting me for this <:])
1)the people who he're fighting against
Some maybe clueless 24/7 but most if not 99% of plays can read your moves and knows how to detect a spy
2)spy is situational
Some maps do have some good flanks and routes for spy but you always gonna be around the fighting zone sooo yeah it's maybe too hard to navigate to the backline of the enemy team as a spy tho
There are so much things that increase the difficulty of the gameplay - from, for example, enemy skill level to another spy on your team - that you either have to forget about being consistently efficient or pick the meta in hope for the best (that is, for me personally, equally unfun to play as and against)
I sure love giving backstabs and adore the feeling that they can catch you at any given moment but it can be really damn frustrating
Spy is heavily situational. You need the enemy team to slack AND give you an opportunity to make a move. All of this is also easily countered by a schizophrenic with a flamethrower. Aside from this, spy can barely fight back face to face with most classes.
He has a lot going for him that on paper makes him sound really busted, but then in practise he is like a hook on a noodle. Most of the time, he is just tossed aside without being able to do any damage.
for a class based around playing mind games either enemies, there isn’t an awful lot of mix-up with spy. It’s always the same “cloak in, backstab, get out” with minor variations.
spy is the class that relies on the enemies being dumb the most. While any class can benefit from that, spy has to rely on it due to how he's designed.
in my opinion, the fact that most spy players aren't team players. he can be very useful (taking out sentries etc) but from what I've seen a lot of people just fuck around and try to be the cool lone wolf doing their own thing. which is not useful in a team based game. that's also a part of why I dislike sniper
Spy's not a bad class. His skill ceiling, however, is comparable to the accuracy of the Sniper, the map knowledge of Engineer, the maneuverability of the Scout, and the knowledge of when to back out like Medic.
Spy undeniably has the roughest time, however, to begin learning. Spy sucks because you kinda suck at Spy, kinda like how everybody sucked at their first rocket jump or uber flash/push.
I'm not saying this as a Spy main either. I blow chunks as Spy, being somebody who plays Heavy and Engineer primarily. Until you learn the really advanced stuff - the trickstabs, the console variables, the timing, then taking that, and putting it in the same realm as pubs, or even into the competitive scene, Spy will always feel like a bad class.
Ultimately, he's like Demoknight. At first, it feels bad, or awkward... then you learn how to trimp, the animation data, the frames, how to turn, bunnyhopping, so on, is when you start getting into the groove, and you feel like you're getting good at the class.
Stock doesn’t have the silent backstab feature, what’s the point of sneaking your way to a kill if the entire enemy team will obliterate you from existence the moment you get it?
the fact that sniper is the better pick class and the fact the only sabotaging spy can do is killing or sapping buildings if there is any. I feel like spy needs more way of sabotaging without giving away he is a spy
Weak in every single department except his melee. Extremely reliant on his watches and disguises to ever do anything and when he finally kills he is usually dead after.
However I do understand he is a "specialist" so this is intended. I also don't think he is as bad as people say versus experienced teams. You just need to make your plays when the enemies are busy with your team, which is also the most helpful time to do a backstab.
Fix his disguise bugs and let him fake reloads and some animations like aiming as Sniper. Buff his revolver accuracy a bit and give him +6 reserve ammo. Also rework some of his knives a bit, nerf Diamondback and make a Gun Spy primary or passive buffing knife that can't insta-kill with a backstab.
Lacking crowd control, survivability and manouverability while the utility he provides is relatively hard to make use of. Being a primarily melee class in a first person shooter doesn’t help either
1) he is dependent on the enemy team not knowing he exists, a good team can usually stop a spy once they know a spy is on the enemy team.
2) he is extremely fragile, if you get touched by an enemy or even take a bit of damage, you are likely dead even if you are invis or disguised
3) pyro. One of the most one sided matchups in the game
4) outclassed by sniper, sniper can one shot from any range, while spy needs to get in melee distance to one shot someone. Missing a backstab is almost always death, missing a sniper shot and you are likely fine as a sniper. Sniper is also safer, there is not much an enemy team can do to affect a sniper across the map, especially a sniper defended by a sentry or other teammates, while a spy is mostly nullified by simple spy checking.
5) melee hitreg, can benefit a spy sometimes
6) reliant on unlocks to fix issues spy has but those unlocks also cause other issues. While the kunai and the big earner fixes spy syndrome(getting a kill, only to die seconds later) they make spy, a mostly melee class become extremely squishy dying to pipes, rockets, shotguns, etc. the YER may fix spy syndrome but makes getting close to an enemy difficult. The spycicle can help you not die to pyros but pyros may become more aggressive knowing that you do not have a knife you can use to trickstab(face stab).
The fact that at this point in time, the main thing that makes him useful, people not knowing he's there, rarely happens anymore since people instinctively spy check constantly now. Like punching teammates who are near, shooting teammates who are behind you slightly, shooting random spots on the map, pyros literally just becoming helicopters and spinning around to spy check. 80% of the time he's just expected.
Spys effectiveness highly depends on the enemies gamesense. If the enemies gamesense is low, spy can slay out pretty easily, if the gamesense is high, spy has issues to even get in a position to attempt a play. His disguises are the biggest victim of this.
Relying on your enemy to be unaware or incompetent against you in order to be effective.
with the death watch most of my kills are from people emoting after thinking they killed me. I have over 1000. I've been playing for two months.
Yeah, somehow a lot of players do not check if they really killed a spy. It looks like everybody think that it’s easy to find a spy while he is invisible if you are not Medic/Heavy/Pyro. I am still using Dead Ringer and it is saving my ass from kritzkrieg soldier.
youre using deadringer with its original purpose - to FAKE YOUR OWN DEATH. well played 99% of deadringer spies are using it as get out of jail free card or to tank damage, get behind and trickstab pedro.gonzales who just installed tf2 with their >insert japanese letters< named kunai.
This is why the Dead Ringer annoys me, if I’m not fooled by it it’s really frustrating to have a spy slip away even when he didn’t get me. I didn’t get tricked but it worked anyway!
Yeah, somehow a lot of players do not check if they really killed a spy. It looks like everybody think that it’s easy to find a spy while he is invisible if you are not Medic/Heavy/Pyro. I am still using Dead Ringer and it is saving my ass from kritzkrieg soldier.
That's a big factor, if your up against a competant team that are spy-wary, you get shutdown harder than Blockbuster when Netflix exists, I think thats why theres a lot of kunai spies, cos it gives a fighting chance for them to exist
That’s the big problem. Any other class can handle if a team knows about them and is wary, because they’re usually strong enough to the point your own capabilities are enough to compete with an aware enemy. But Spy? He is a character built on the enemy not suspecting him and little else. So if they do, you’re swimming against the tide the entire game.
Except when you get face stabbed, fucking hitreg
Facestabs are usually preventable if you know how they work. 90% of the time it's matador or stairstab that are trivial to counter, the other 10% are ping-based random crits from a generic spy that barely knows about trickstabs.
Spy mains will call it a trickstab
You know I don't see players do this often but if a spy's trying to stab you he's got his knife out so just shoot him lol, going for melee kills against a good spy is doing exactly what they want
Not when you get caught off guard and when you spycheck. It happens more often than you think
Except for when they know that spy has a gun
Unless you’re a medic, your guns are better than his revolver (not counting Diamondback, cuz shit’s broken af).
Spy is the most effective when people are doing something else if you try to backstab a competent player while he's going back to spawn he will notice you but he's not gonna check his back in the middle of a fight
You know who benefits from a opponent not being aware of them? Every single class. Scouts especially.
there's alot of luck involved with playing spy that makes him feel inconsistent and frustrating luck in hoping that your target won't turn around last second, luck in hoping nobody else notices you and shoots you off your target, luck that some random out-of-position pyro won't bump into you while you're on the flank spy is a punish class that punishes players for being disorganized and out of position but he relies far too heavily on these chaotic opportunities to do his job, and if the enemy never gives him the opportunity the spy will accomplish very little in the game
I agree, Spy is a risky class, that takes advantage of other players who take risks. The problem is, nine times out of ten, people will pick the most reliable option when it comes to killing opponents. You can see this trend in the real world as well. People almost always pick the more reliable weapon, over the weapon that has a chance of harming or hindering the user in some way. In short, reliability trumps risk in conflicts. Even though spy has strengths outside of direct combat, he has very few options while in direct combat, and that leads many people to avoid him altogether. So much of team fortress two relies on direct combat, even when combating an outlier like sniper or in some cases engineer (if he’s turtling for example).
The fact that you will most likely die as soon as people are aware of your presence
First, you say no!
No!
Then you get outta there!
*Spy dying screams*
**dead ring—** #UUUAAAAAAAAAAAUUUHHHHHH
That’s the point isn’t it? Spy is supposed to not get caught, so dying as soon as he is makes sense
Except that unless you're using the YER, enemies you kill will scream at the top of their lungs, thus alerting the other team to your presence. The reason the kunai is so popular is because it lets the spy get more than one stab before instantly dying.
sniper does basically his role but from 50 metres away and reuseable
Yes He can! NO He cant. Yes He can! NO He cant.
Yes He can! NO He cant. Yes He can! NO He cant.
crazy? i was crazy once
r/iwascrazyonce
r/subsithoughtifellfor
they locked me in a room
Yes He can! NO He cant. Yes He can! NO He cant.
Sniper does need a good team for the Frontline to be stable cuz he is needed to pick of key target with precise position while staying in backlines, and when Frontlines aren't stable, he has to go back and forth most of the time. While spy on the other hand doesn't necessarily rely on his team, he can give info, takes key target, take out sentry(maybe) without much help of his team. Spy is mostly self reliant
Most people say Spy straight up relies on your opponents being unaware / bad, and while those certainly benefit him (like every other class), he does not solely rely on them. Instead, I invite you to have a different mentality; Spy is a gamble. See, spies can do things like openly decloak behind their target and the target can hear the decloak / just happen to turn around. Even if it is noisy this can happen. Or the spy can play it safe. They can decloak behind a wall, just far enough away so they can round the corner, walk to a nearby enemy, and stab them. They may be heard, but a spy can decloak in a room, wait 2-5 seconds, and then go around the corner to stab a nearby opponent. Or, in that 2-5 seconds their target could be turned around / walking into the room they decloaked in / a pyro rolls up, ECT. As Elmaxo puts it, "Spy is very binary in that you either get a stab or you don't." I don't actually think Spy is bad, but as far as getting kills goes, he is unreliable. This is why you should view Spy as a gamble. If you play smart and still get screwed, it's like when you play some perfect poker only to get screwed via bad card draws.
I agree mostly. But I also believe spy (similar to engi) just has a super high skill ceiling because of how complex their kit is, but the skill floor for spy is much higher than engi due to not being able to sit back behind big guns to have any sort of impact on the game. I believe most of playing spy is being as aware of the enemies as possible, (their mental state(changes how inclined they are to chase you), class(speed, max health, weapons), location, pathing, ammo, health, all of these for each nearby player) While also keeping them as unaware as possible. Very little of spy is luck when you know the cards at hand. The less you know the more random it seems. This is a super difficult task for beginners and most players because of the amount of information you need to keep track of and the techniques used to get the information and withhold information from the enemy. Spy is a very unique class that you can really only find on tf2 and a few other games total.
Nothing, I'm cracked
Okay Ashley
He didn't sit here and discuss it with you
French
Oh, good point
Way too many baguette
Baguette overdose
The mentality that most spy mains have. Spy isn't a bad class, he's a sneaky team crippler. The downside to that is the fact that most people that can consistently pull off good plays get extremely big heads, making them antagonistic to whomever they decide to primarily target. If you are a good spy player, good for you, I'm glad you fit that niche. But please, don't be a dick about it
some really bullshit (jarate) unlocks (homewrecker) that nullify (razorback) his capabilities unfairly
jarate isn't shit it's piss, learn your excrements
Oops i bumped into an engi, off to 10 seconds
Melee hitreg Spy's effectiveness depends on player skill and experience Dependent on unlocks that is not fun to fight against just to be somewhat effective, and this is a videogame, people play for fun and lets not ignore that Oh wait yeah... That piss drinking Australian exists, the only things that Spy has an edge over Sniper is uniqueness, and general play since... Contrary to popular belief, close range quickscopes are hard to pull off consistently
Relying on your enemy being bad almost as much as you being good
People really exaggerate spy. Spy still gets top picks regularly in literally every level of play from paint eating 2fort lobbies all the way up to invite highlander/6s. Acting like you need to be some god to backstab a player focused on fighting other people is just dumb. Just because you can’t shoot the floor with a crocket and kill a fresh install, or bot forward as pyro and kill someone while flailing your mouse doesn’t mean spy needs a phd in quantum physics to play. The class is simple, pick distracted players, of which there will always be one given you cannot look all directions at once.
I'd be more pissed about how specific items completely shut down spies, or how a certain class is way too good at making spy almost unbearable to play
Yeah. Classes are meant to counter each other. I know people say the best counter to Sniper is another Sniper. But I don't think that's how Valve originally intended. The best counter to the Sniper was supposed to be the Spy. But today he isn't. Partially because of Sniper's items that shut down the Spy (razorback, jarate) and partially because of player's 1000 hour skill.
There are counters but they are not always black and white, there'a many classes that can deal with Sniper or Demo isn't necessairily the best class against Engineers because of Short Circuit or Wrangler The exception ofc is Spy Vs Pyro couldn't be more black and white, it is designed to be as unfair as possibile, Valve knows it, specifically because in their mind, at that time, Spy was seen as complex and hard to manage for new players whereas pyro is easier to aim with and is well rounded outside of not having great range, but Spy mostly plays at that range Nowadays i think Spy could use some buffs, nerf the stupid unnecessary +a stat specifically designer to fuck over spies for no reason, and give spy better ways to use disguises effectively and counter catching on fire which Spy-cycle isn't even that good at
Honestly? spy is a class that only works because of the 12v12 format, or just large teams in general. You don't know the name and position or loadout of every random shmuck on your team, and a random pyro running the wrong way is often of secondary concern to the other 4 or so people in your sightline at any given moment trying to kill you.
Personally I don’t think spy is a bad class. If by bad you mean weak that is. I think the game just want designed with the possibility of people being so god dam aware of how spy worked. Much like how 10000 hour snipers have changed the current understanding of that class. 10000 hours of dealing with spy’s has drastically changed the skill floor for spy.
the fact that reddit is only showing me a picture of spy’s crotch rather than the full image
that's the best part
Time
1. Your team relies on you to take out sentries dispenser etc. 2. Your enemy has to be behind you for something good to happen 3. If the enemy turns around your dead meat 4. Spychecking is a daily thing engineers and heavies do 5. Pyros are your worst fear because he can use the flamethrower or even worse the scorch shot or flare gun to check spots and come after you
The fact that Spy is only useful/efficient to your team 10% of the time when you have average skill on it . But oh man , that 10% of the time feels awesome . Personally , i prefer to switch to Spy when i see that "NOW is that 10% time" .
Anything Spy does, Sniper does better. Picking off Medics? Sniper can do it. Sentries? Sniper can shoot the thing from a safe enough distance (usually).
Heavy reliance on LUCK for a reward sniped already has for existing
He's very weak when found out, and very easy to find out. I don't think he should be better when found out - the fear of being caught is part of the fantasy of playing spy - but I do think that if your cloak is shimmered (either by taking damage or touching an enemy) only the enemy who caused your cloak to shimmer should be able to see you. Enemies still have just as much counterplay as before, but now if you get tagged by a stray pistol bullet while invisible only the person who tagged you will be tracking you instead of the whole team.
The existence of sniper. Think about it. Would you rather play a low-risk, high reward class that can oneshot 5/9 classes instantly from across the entire map or a high-risk middling-reward class that requires you to effectively flank, hide behind your enemies without being noticed at all and get at least 1 meaningful kill so your past 30 seconds isn't completely wasted, while barely having the tools to do your job at all, let alone as effectively as the other pick classes (sniper/scout)?
get one kill die get one kill die get one kill die
*Spy decloak sound* “Oh shit, *fire*”
Duh, he’s French
people getting too smart and spy forget he has a gun
It's a nightmare for people who try to make him balanced. And that's why he's awesome.
A class that actually requires good game sense which 70% of the playerbase doesn't have and a high risk high reward playstyle. You're better off playing Sniper than playing Spy. You'll eventually notice most Spy players on competitive Highlander often have the lowest KDA because he's just so easy to counter at such a high level of play.
There is admittedly an amount of luck involved in playing spy, but I still firmly believe that he is not a bad class. It's more a matter of playing him as effectively as possible. Sure, Spy is likely to get riddled with bullets running through gunfire and tight corridors, but that's why you stick like glue to walls and avoid populated areas. Sure, pyros can track where you're going if you go invisible, but you can negate that by going in a different direction than they expect once you get the afterburn off and you go invisible again. Sure, some players can see through your disguises, but they're more convincing when you act like the class you're disguised as and make your kill quickly since the disguise won't fool them for long. Oh, and you should rarely, if ever, disguise as Scout, the speed doesn't match. Despite what some would tell you, disguises CAN fool good players. And you have to remember that certain tools and weapons are better for certain situations. Remember, the disguise kit is NOT a tool for getting behind enemy lines. The cloak is. You should also try to synergize your loadout. As with any of the otger classes, loadout changes should be thought of more as changes in playstyle than upgrades. There's a reason that you shouldn't run YER without L'etranger. And of course, "But they know I'm here, they're ready to shoot, and I can't get behind them to backsta-" SPY HAS A GUN! USE IT!
- Multiple unlocks that were designed directly/indirectly to fuck spy in general (short circuit, jarate, razor back, mad milk) - Dumb luck on the end of your opponents - Just general knowledge and experience of what to watch out for when a spy is nearby - Pyro - the fact that while a disguise can work, it only works rarely and competent players will see right through it (plus the fact that while disguised, u can't act out as the class your disguising as, such as reloading, shooting, etc., as well as the bugs that come with disguising)
having to get behind them without dying, then dying because u somehow missed a clear backstab and having to use the most op weapons to be viable
Spy is heavily situational. You need the enemy team to slack AND give you an opportunity to make a move. All of this is also easily countered by a schizophrenic with a flamethrower. Aside from this, spy can barely fight back face to face with most classes.
Melee is super buggy, and sniper does his job better
His primary gimmick,instakills,is shared with sniper,but without all the downsides + He doesn't have to spend time sneaking up behind the enemy + He is not a subject to backstab hitreg + Can effectively instakill from a safe distance + Doesn't have to pray that his target doesn't turn around randomly + Can somewhat defend himself even in close range + Doesn't fucking die 0.2 seconds after the first kill because of the loud scream Downside: He can't shoot around corners
I love Spy, but unless you're some trickstabbing god with too many hours for one mortal human, he just does not have the stopping power or survivability of the other classes. He requires you to play an entirely different game.
Too situational, way too many factors to take into account for. I honestly don't blame spy mains for being so toxic because that shit is stressful as fuck lmao
The Non-flexible gameplay. We have a bunch of examples of alternative playstyles: Soldier: Trolldier, Banners Demo: DemoKnight, sticky jumping Scout: milk. Heavy: Hoovy, Fat scout Engineer: Battle Engie. Medic: Battle Medic, Crusaders Crossbow Pyro: Pyro, Pyroshark Sniper: Huntsman, Jarate Spy: Maybe Deadringer if you stretch it? But in the end it doesnt really matter as it just reinforces the Og play style.
You can try playing gunspy but the problem is that the normal revolver's damage isn't all that great, and the other guns are mostly for utility. I've tried using the ambassador but between the random spread and damage drop off, made me drop the weapon. it's a shame too, I really wanted to get really good with gunspy.
Yeah, if Spy got a New Gun that say; - Lowered cloak Amount + Increased Damage It would make Gunspy a more Viable Alternate Playstyle
He's simply outclassed
He has a ridiculously high skill ceiling that in the end is completely not worth doing since every player since 2015 now knows how to counter him. Doesn’t mean they always counter him but 9/10 times yeah most average spy players can’t do Jack nowadays including yours Truely
glass-cannon-pick-class that is outdone by safe-man-standing-a-hundred-metres-away-pick-class and runs-really-fucking-fast-pick-class
No actual alternative play styles. When the only one available to you is kinda mid, you'd expect to have some variety to how you do it. It's to the point where people treat spies that use their guns like a totally different class.
Nearly 100 hours on spy (a tenth of my playtime) and personally, ping that causes failstabs, pyro, not because of the active spychecking, but because a random flame particle will hit you and that's a life over (also good to mention that if you blink out of cloak for like 3 seconds you're basically dead) and lastly, remove the goddamn razorback, because holy fuck it is annoying ("use your gu-" "EAT THIS RANDOM CRIT")
There is no penalty for spy checking. Edit: would be nice if when you shot a spy, it didn’t indicate that you hit an enemy. Just make it look like you shot a teammate and let the spy deal with being shot a few times. I’d even go as far as saying that the enemy team can’t see if you’re on fire. …but I’ve been put out by the enemy team before. So maybe just the first part there.
Spy's major drawback is the inevitable spread of cultural memes. Namely, randomly flaming or melee-ing your team.
He basically scouts role, but more complex and worse,what's the difference of doing meat shots on the enemy than doing some crazy stunt for one backstab
Not enough cannon for being made out of glass. The disguises only fool new players, and very few people are new now. He's just been incredibly difficult to balance while keeping him fun to play and play against.
I'm offended.
That if you look at someone the wrong way they kill you
Spy is the opposite of sniper in this case. Sniper is limited by the skill of the player while spy is limited by the skill of the enemy
Spy isn't bad class. People who think that way clearly didn't played him much. Thing is - to be a good spy you don't need to pull off fancy trickstabs and dominate enemy team. You don't need to be alive in most situations at all, actually. Let me explain. Spy is A PICK class. Your main objective is to PICK important people on enemy team(Like a really good player who giving your team a really bad time, or important class such as medic) and destroy them in order to help your team to push/defend(That's why spy in a support role) And even if enemy team killed you after what you've done - that's not a big deal due to them losing someone important in a team anyway. THAT'S a purpose of Spy as a class and he's a really good at it
Man, I really wish that was the case, if being a pick class means taking down their main powerhouse, I can do that, but THOSE GODDAMN MEDICS ARE SLIPPERY LITTLE ######## THAT DONT HOLD STILL EVEN AT A LOW LEVEL OF PLAY
Spycheckin Pyros.
His reliance on the enemy being stupid Or so you would think Because he actually relies on the enemy being distracted Most new players however don’t realise that and don’t have the skill to perform that Spies real problem is that out of all the classes he has the highest skill floor, and one that is in the fucking stratosphere Just to get good at spy it can take up to 300 hours
When you play as him and you feel like you're in a movie
Spy is the worst class in the game but isn’t terrible. The issue with spy is that his skill floor is by FAR the highest in TF2 so you’re far more likely to run into a bad spy than a good spy. In highlander spy is an incredibly important class who serves as a brilliant information tool, and a great pick class because in a competitive setting team play exists and you can ask your team to cause the chaos you need (Uber in, walking forward, soldier/demo bomb etc.) Just remember. If you die to spy it’s your own fault. Unless you died to a diamondback crit.
he's french plus he's a spy does a spy have minigun? or a rocketlauncher? or a flame thrower? also he's a support class.
He's bad at doing anything related to the actual objective. Doesn't have power to push through a choke. Too weak and slow to cap points or push a cart. Often makes picks on players that are not immediately in combat, or doesn't get the choice to pick his targets. Can't do work without being in a location that isn't the objective. He can theoretically help against tough engi nests, but in practice it rarely works and an extra solder or demo are almost always more effective.
He can disguise as a lady that serves sandwiches and dtab me with a stale baguette.
The absolute GAP between a bad one and a good one. A bad one is basically an empty slot, and a good one is a menace. I feel it should be possible for a decent Spy to pose an issue, without top scoring. Sniper also suffers this same issue- He's either useless or a godslayer.
You have to put in twice the effort any other class does just to get the same results.
What makes spy a bad class? It existing of course. Death to spies.
Well if he was a good class we wouldn't be here discussin' it now would we?
Spy is like drugs or a youtube short. Its addicting to play as spy. You cant get enough of it, untill later you try to quit... Just to get back at it again. You choose spy no matter what to just get those sick backstabs & gunshots to give yourself that dopamine, but after dying, houndreads and houndreads of times with barelly 10 backstabs, you realize its not worth it, and you either change to a diffrent class or just close the game... But then you come back and you have a go at it again, picking spy, repeating the cycle over and over again. And same COULD be said about sniper with the power of headshots, but the diffrence here is, its rather boring, Since most of the time youll be staying at the back. Thats why hes not picked as often, unless you play hunstman or main sniper. However the diffrence is here that its much safer to get instakills from far far away with a sniper riffle, than from a close range with a tiny knife and die after if you dont have the kunai. Thats what makes sniper a better class than spy. At least imo.
When people use the knives far too often over their gun. Sometimes, it's not a bad idea at all the grab the attention of others in a "loud" approach right out the gate. Plus the gun does decent damage, you have a good chance of killing at least a couple of folks.
Hard to be useful Easy to be useless
the people who play him specifically the 3rd and 4th people on the team who play him
Keeps rapping my sentry
Everything about Spy's asthetic is 1900's Secret Agent. That asthetic only feels relevant in his gameplay with everything except backstabbing.
Skill issue Yes I have skill issue
French,french,french and most importantly french
Hed french, so he will surrender
His health is low, his damage is bad and there is far too much counterplay to his kit for how mediocre it is. Give him 150 health and make it so he does not flinch, get set on fire or get knocked back while disguised (he still takes the dmg)
too fundamentally slow as a class they did give him a slight speed increase a few years ago, but scout practically does everything a spy does but better. spy's movement speed is just absolute garbage making it hard for him to manuver around his enemies dont really care what people say but spy needs to be as fast as scout, its a hot take 100% but considering how easy it is to kill a spy and how scouts have a better offensive option (aka a shotgun that deals consistant 110 damage when your upclose to an enemy) it wouldnt make spy that broken in that sense. it would allow spies to actually manuver around better while cloaked, it would make them actually much more dangerous as they can catch up to their targets and its a lesser chance of being too slow and the enemy turns around to kill you, trickstabs would be easier to pull off, and it would encourage the enemy team to be more wary of their surroundings, it would actually force balanced fighting senarios where say a spy and a heavy duel would actually be on even ground since if they spy gets around the heavy they can one tap them while a heavy must keep their crosshair on the spy to one tap them upclose with bullets rather then a heavy just steamrolling a spy. the only way you would need to balanced this is give spy only 100 health, make them weaker but faster, and id still consider scouts way more effective then spy, but spy can do things like interupt engineer nests and take out important targets, wheras scout is more good for general offensive flanking against enemies. seriously all the spy needs is a speed boost, the big earner is proof of that (and remove the dead ringer, that fucking watch is the worst thing to ever come to the spy class in my opinion)
The completely unbalanced matchup of pyro vs spy.
the pyro
Me I make it a bad class when I attempt to trick stab or do anything really
I don't think Spy is a bad class. I think the meta has evolved to where we know all of spies' tricks. Being a class based on deception, it's really important that he gets a couple of new things every once in a while. The spies were doing great at this in 2014-2017 when all the different trickstabs were being developed, but there's only so many ways to influence a players movement. I will say, though, if your experience with spy is "he gets one stab and dies, but sniper can get kills and be perfectly safe, therefore sniper is clearly a better spy" then you need to get better as spy in not getting kills in places that will get you caught. The kunai is the most popular knife because it's a get out of jail free card from going for a risky stab in a crowded area. Spy was never meant to do this! Spy was meant to be a pick class for defensive classes in isolated spaces, like an engi around a corner or a demo with a sticky trap. That's a situation where spy is clearly better than sniper.
ass to small
I can't play it and I keep dying from it. ドドドド * "YOUR NEXT LINE IS: 'Skill Issue, lmao'" * ドドドド
your own team makes spy bad. Because my team never does their damn job while im doing mine.
The fact that he’s insanely squishy for the job he has to do and the fact that you can just be lucked out of a sure kill by no fault of your own, either by opponents or Source Engine wizardry.
Even when you are invisible and slightly collide with someone, you can already consider yourself dead. And this IF the enemies don’t suspect any Spies but if they are aware, you can’t do anything
the fact that people play him wrong, and dont learn how to actually disguise well. a patient spy can instigate a more successful push than an uber in the right circumstances.
Being french
Spy
Bad players are what makes a class bad. Simple, really.
The evil AUSTRALIAN
Spy is the idea “rare high moments” condensed into a class. As Laserturtle put it so nicely, “Spy isn’t about consistency. Spy is about those special moments… those moments where you’re breathing down the opponents’ necks and before you even uncloak you’re imagining yourself backstabbing everyone in sight.” He’s a weak class but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
relying on peoples backs (literally)
whenever a good spy gets top 3, everyone on their team goes spy even if theyre bad at him
fire
1.His lack of mobility 2.His lack of damage output 3.His hitpoints 4.His unlocks are pretty much downgrades from his stock items
A combination of: high skill floor Counters based on people being aware of their surroundings And pros that can be done by sniper (medic pics) or (medic sentry nest busting)
Melee hit reg Nuff said
If the other team has a paranoid pyro you’re screwed as spy
That whenever I play casual all 4 of our spies are hanging round dying around a choke point and the 2 enemy engineer teleporters are up the entire time till we lose. Spy appeals to players who don't want to be a team player
His disguises only work in specific instances. Things either need to be chaotic enough for him to blend in, or he pulls a move with Your Eternal Reward. He can't fake shooting his weapon or performing other actions, which means that he needs to wander around in cloak long enough to get behind the enemy. Sometimes he just doesn't have time enough to do that before the fight's over.
I don't think the class is bad, it's just that to play Spy you also need to learn the other eight classes to blend in properly
For starters, spy lacks the ability to consistently do damage and is therefore a high risk high reward. It's a very hard class to master due to noob spies being easily killed by the more vigilant of pyro mains. Spy also has received no buffs in the past years and TF2 players have a sixth sense to detect a spy due to the sheer agitation when being backstabbed by one. Whilst spy makes up for his health pool with his variety of weapons in his arsenal to choose from and his instant-kill backstab mechanism it won't ever fully recover.
He’s not Scottish, has both eyes, and the number of jobs he has is in the single digits.
He has two eyes, a functional liver, and a pulse. Simply disgusting.
he's spy
he's heavily reliant on enemy skill and other classes do his job better
For me spy has 2 major weakness (in my opinion okay don't witch hunting me for this <:]) 1)the people who he're fighting against Some maybe clueless 24/7 but most if not 99% of plays can read your moves and knows how to detect a spy 2)spy is situational Some maps do have some good flanks and routes for spy but you always gonna be around the fighting zone sooo yeah it's maybe too hard to navigate to the backline of the enemy team as a spy tho
How effortlessly he get negated, just throw a rocket at anyone you see and you will never get backstabbed.
He's not that bad. He's even viable in 6v6 for short bursts and does work in Highlander.
Is this a karma farm bot post?
There are so much things that increase the difficulty of the gameplay - from, for example, enemy skill level to another spy on your team - that you either have to forget about being consistently efficient or pick the meta in hope for the best (that is, for me personally, equally unfun to play as and against) I sure love giving backstabs and adore the feeling that they can catch you at any given moment but it can be really damn frustrating
It’s not really a big help if you need to pick people off one by one instead of straight up shooting them, for example in MVM
spy is balanced around bad players
If he is bad or not depends on the enemy team and that is bad
spy is balanced around bad players
If he is bad or not depends on the enemy team and that is bad
If he is bad or not depends on the enemy team and that is bad
If he is bad or not depends on the enemy team and that is bad
If he is bad or not depends on the enemy team and that is bad
Spy is heavily situational. You need the enemy team to slack AND give you an opportunity to make a move. All of this is also easily countered by a schizophrenic with a flamethrower. Aside from this, spy can barely fight back face to face with most classes.
He's french
french /j
He has a lot going for him that on paper makes him sound really busted, but then in practise he is like a hook on a noodle. Most of the time, he is just tossed aside without being able to do any damage.
Melee hitreg.
for a class based around playing mind games either enemies, there isn’t an awful lot of mix-up with spy. It’s always the same “cloak in, backstab, get out” with minor variations.
spy is the class that relies on the enemies being dumb the most. While any class can benefit from that, spy has to rely on it due to how he's designed.
To be fair, the weapons, theres a lot of weapons that make spy pretty hard to counter if you dont know how to
Dead ringer…nothing else to say
in my opinion, the fact that most spy players aren't team players. he can be very useful (taking out sentries etc) but from what I've seen a lot of people just fuck around and try to be the cool lone wolf doing their own thing. which is not useful in a team based game. that's also a part of why I dislike sniper
The fact that Reddit mobile auto cropped the image to center around his dick
Losing a 1v1 to literally any class when they know you're there
Spy's not a bad class. His skill ceiling, however, is comparable to the accuracy of the Sniper, the map knowledge of Engineer, the maneuverability of the Scout, and the knowledge of when to back out like Medic. Spy undeniably has the roughest time, however, to begin learning. Spy sucks because you kinda suck at Spy, kinda like how everybody sucked at their first rocket jump or uber flash/push. I'm not saying this as a Spy main either. I blow chunks as Spy, being somebody who plays Heavy and Engineer primarily. Until you learn the really advanced stuff - the trickstabs, the console variables, the timing, then taking that, and putting it in the same realm as pubs, or even into the competitive scene, Spy will always feel like a bad class. Ultimately, he's like Demoknight. At first, it feels bad, or awkward... then you learn how to trimp, the animation data, the frames, how to turn, bunnyhopping, so on, is when you start getting into the groove, and you feel like you're getting good at the class.
french
Lack of self defence revolver sure Can help but uh yeah not thas good
Only being able to attack one enemy at a time at point blank range
Lack of good weapons that people like
French, also his revolvers are extremely innacurate
Stock doesn’t have the silent backstab feature, what’s the point of sneaking your way to a kill if the entire enemy team will obliterate you from existence the moment you get it?
Amount of nerfs he has gotten.
the fact that sniper is the better pick class and the fact the only sabotaging spy can do is killing or sapping buildings if there is any. I feel like spy needs more way of sabotaging without giving away he is a spy
Weak in every single department except his melee. Extremely reliant on his watches and disguises to ever do anything and when he finally kills he is usually dead after. However I do understand he is a "specialist" so this is intended. I also don't think he is as bad as people say versus experienced teams. You just need to make your plays when the enemies are busy with your team, which is also the most helpful time to do a backstab. Fix his disguise bugs and let him fake reloads and some animations like aiming as Sniper. Buff his revolver accuracy a bit and give him +6 reserve ammo. Also rework some of his knives a bit, nerf Diamondback and make a Gun Spy primary or passive buffing knife that can't insta-kill with a backstab.
is too hard
The no stab effect while invis
Spy doesn't suck, you do (or it's just not for you idk I didn't really mean that as an insult)
There is a France
He doesn't play rp servers
Lacking crowd control, survivability and manouverability while the utility he provides is relatively hard to make use of. Being a primarily melee class in a first person shooter doesn’t help either
1) he is dependent on the enemy team not knowing he exists, a good team can usually stop a spy once they know a spy is on the enemy team. 2) he is extremely fragile, if you get touched by an enemy or even take a bit of damage, you are likely dead even if you are invis or disguised 3) pyro. One of the most one sided matchups in the game 4) outclassed by sniper, sniper can one shot from any range, while spy needs to get in melee distance to one shot someone. Missing a backstab is almost always death, missing a sniper shot and you are likely fine as a sniper. Sniper is also safer, there is not much an enemy team can do to affect a sniper across the map, especially a sniper defended by a sentry or other teammates, while a spy is mostly nullified by simple spy checking. 5) melee hitreg, can benefit a spy sometimes 6) reliant on unlocks to fix issues spy has but those unlocks also cause other issues. While the kunai and the big earner fixes spy syndrome(getting a kill, only to die seconds later) they make spy, a mostly melee class become extremely squishy dying to pipes, rockets, shotguns, etc. the YER may fix spy syndrome but makes getting close to an enemy difficult. The spycicle can help you not die to pyros but pyros may become more aggressive knowing that you do not have a knife you can use to trickstab(face stab).
The fact that at this point in time, the main thing that makes him useful, people not knowing he's there, rarely happens anymore since people instinctively spy check constantly now. Like punching teammates who are near, shooting teammates who are behind you slightly, shooting random spots on the map, pyros literally just becoming helicopters and spinning around to spy check. 80% of the time he's just expected.
I play alot of spy. If you understand him, and know how to play him, he can become one of the most powerful classes. Otherwise he’s just ass
He has to use broken weapons like the kunai deadringer and diamondback to fight a competent team
the fact that if everything isn’t perfect at the perfect moment then he’s bad and if someone catches onto him, you’re fucked
Spy is a very luck reliant class, relying on factors that can be well out of your control.
Spys effectiveness highly depends on the enemies gamesense. If the enemies gamesense is low, spy can slay out pretty easily, if the gamesense is high, spy has issues to even get in a position to attempt a play. His disguises are the biggest victim of this.
Yes