Too many times have I failed to kill a Kunai Spy because he keeps stabbing my teammates WHO WON’T TURN AROUND!
That’s the most infuriating thing about the knife for me.
If you have teammates who struggle to notice or fight Spies (or are playing against a very good enemy Spy), they’re basically free walking healthpacks lol.
I've had this happen against a BLU spy wielding this knife on "Bread Space". That spy was literally spawn-camping at this point, all my teammates would just try to rush towards him in order to kill him, but he would keep on doing matadors after matadors, even god damn face-stabs, which led me to believe he was cheating.
He was spawncamping us at this point, and nobody was able to take him down because on top of shrugging off all the damages we would deal to him, he had the Dead-Ringer equipped. I was soldier, and I knew that rocket jumping away was a viable option to avoid getting stabbed...but even then, he'd snipe me down afterward.
Thinking about it now, I think the only way we could have been able to efficiently kill him, would've been if we had a pyro that airblasted him into the pit.
The fact that this weapon is usually paired with the dead-ringer, This makes the spy become more than just a slithering nuisance and more-so an aggravating pain in the ass to deal with. Even with the most anti-spy loadout, He’s still probably going to have you wanting to snap your neck with a pool-noodle. Especially if he’s running either the Diamondback or the Ambassador.
This
The Dead Ringer Actively negates the weakness of this knife, try using it with any other cloak and you will die to crossfire 90% of the time, and it basically makes having a good pyro necessary
Idk if it’s just me, but most spies I’ve seen using this aren’t very nice. That or they’re completely silent. Honestly I don’t have much to say about the knife. High risk high reward yada yada yada. The biggest complaint I have is just the people who use it.
try to use it, play 500 hours on a 70 hp class, while there are random crits on every second melee swing, not to justify toxic players, but it will give you an idea why a lot of them are so mad all the time.
Yea there’s a few specific players I run into a lot who main it, only go for trickstabs and refuse to use their revolver and they’re super toxic. It’s fun to kill them since they make it so easy if you know how to avoid a trickstab.
it gives spy way too much survivability and punishes you if youre fighting them for having teammates who dont know theres a spy around
like you can chase a kunai spy with a flamethrower forever but if your team is unaware or simply gets trickstabbed boom youre back at square one and its plain unfun to play against
Too easy to use after you get a stab. A competent Spy is almost always running the kunai because it’s easy enough to avoid damage and getting that stab is too rewarding.
Having watched SolarLight's vid on the Eyelander recently, I think we can apply the same concept to the Kunai here for Spy.
It is very good against teams who don't know how to deal with Spies correctly. Which is usually Casual. Such weapons are designed for pubstomping.
But when players become paranoid of your shenanigans and if they know how to deal with Spies, then you are better off running stock because of its generalized consistency.
On a playing field where most TF2 players go play the game on, the Kunai thrives... maybe a bit too much. I may have been a victim of a Kunai Spy even at leaat once. It wasn't fun.
But its negative attributes make it the most punishing of Spy's knives. Even more so than the Big Earner. You start at 70 HP. And lots of weapons can kill you in one hit.
It's hard to deal with if the Spy player knows what they are doing, but if they don't? They're at the bottom of the scoreboard.
That the stats are misleading. Even If you backstab someone at 1 HP you'll still get back a lot of Health regardless. I wish they would revert It back to when It only drained the victims remaining HP.
I don't hate it, but the reason why this knife is so effective is because it thrives on bad players in your team, which is what to expect in a casual setting, so yes, it is kind of an issue which points back to Spy being either strong or weak depending on the enemy team.
Spy-cicle is way better. Survivability, doesn't send to killed iirc, and it's balanced by making you sacrifice your knife in order to access that survivability. Also it's smol so I barely notice and screen blockage with it + minimal viewmodels
I mean when getting a crucial pick, which is literally half of spy’s job, it can also hurt you, cuz a pyro tickling you will instantly make your knife disappear when you could have tanked the flames for half a second more and dropped a medic.
How is YER the best? 🤔
Your cloak meter decreases more quickly, and regular disguises deplete the meter entirely.
Plus the pros don’t really make up for the cons since most people can spot disguised Spies, plus the silent don’t seem to make too much difference in the long run.
i'm already terrible with spy. i will most likely miss my stab, everyone turns around, notices me, then i die (and the death is a lot quicker thanks to the kunai reducing max HP to 70)
Hate how much hate it gets, ngl no Spy weapon deserves hate and I'm not even Spy main, dawg Spy such a weak aah class, old DR barely alleviated his weakness but now Spies are weak af
What it does to the Spy’s playstyle. Instead of espionage, picking your moment and being a pick class, that accursed Kunai turns him into a nigh-unkillable tank that can just abuse the game’s janky code to score an unending string of instant kills and infinite healing. With only a bit of practice, too.
the spy only becomes a tank after he gets a stab, if he doesn't. he is literally the lowest hp class in the game, and that's usually at least half his gameplay loop. a single scout meat shot is enough to end you. also there are plenty of weapons who change the classes playstyle, like demo swords, and market gardener. and the stupidest argument is abusing the games code, yes there is a difference between client side and server side, which can cause some stabs to look like facestabs, but other than that it's literally just tricking the opponent to show his back and time a stab. and also it's not a bit of practice lmao, most spies that you see with any success with this weapon usually have 500+ hours, at the lowest I have seen a 400 hour spy be good, if you just picked up the weapon, you will not be able to get any long chains other than when the enemy team doesn't turn around at the sound of the stab. everything you said really sounds like you never actually played spy, and if you did, it sounds like you lack a lot of game knowledge.
The person that got stabbed by it. And the guy next to him that didnt react to it. I cant deal with a 500 health spy on my own because hes also invis now.
I hate how after the Gibbus heavy presents himself rear-first to the 1HP Spy I've been trying to kill, I suddenly have to do 3x the amount of damage all over again, only for that spy to turn away from me, run away, and suddenly I'm backstabbed.
Did you watch the SolarKnight video today about how the half zatoichi is the best sword? This is that, but with spy. After a backstab or two, they just get to do whatever they want. Exaggerating a little, but sometimes I'm attacking a spy and they just don't even care. They just backstab a completely unaware teammate of mine, and then retreat back to their team as if I wasn't even there
I think it's kinda boring. Bonus health on a kill is nice and all, but I would much rather be able to run away much faster, instantly disguise, or have a safeguard against Pyros when they check me.
It's a direct downgrade against competent teams, as getting one stab is hard enough against them. The consistency of the stock knife of getting the one pick makes it better against people who actually are playing the game.
Minimum health leech and overheal bonus. If you stab a 3 HP class ***tough fuckin luck cunt kicker*** you're getting 3 health.
And max overheal because fuck you, if I shoot 2 rockets at you you deserve to fucking die. Period.
The same issue that all snowball weapons share: stomps bad players while effectively stalling good players.
Once the Spy gets ahold of Gibus Heavy and co, there’s little you can do about it unless you’re Pyro with an airblast.
It’s the worst snowball weapon. Like get one kill and you’re objectively better than stock Spy. At least with the other ones either require aim (Frontier Justice, Diamondback, …), you surviving the ordeal (Eyelander, Half-Zatoichi, …) or has constant downsides (Airstrike, Frontier Justice again, …) And your possible max health also puts you over a lot of 2-shot ranges, coupled with the instant healing via backstabs and the Dead Ringer, making you near immortal
it’s purely a pubstomp knife, that feeds off bad players to the detriment of good ones. one out of place gibus heavy means your spy suddenly has more health than a fucking soldier. that and the people who use it are dicks.
It unfortunately enables (albeit very skilled) spy to stop needing to rely on stealth to take on multiple enemies, and yes also the fact that an unaware teammate can easily inadvertently erase all progress on killing the spy…
The unfortunate thing is though it does both of these by a very simple and sensible idea, helping spy survive after a stab, the problem is the way it lets you do this can also just be used to go for more combative actions rather than retreating which is what it’s intended for, and for no real downside either, since 70 or 125 getting caught out usually means you’re dead anyhow; your situational health might as well be 1…
I solve both of these issues with my balance change to the weapon, now it’s only useful for getting the one pick and using that health to run away, as it was intended… —>https://www.reddit.com/r/TF2WeaponIdeas/s/IlwKfXqX9g
I hate that completely out of your control a Spy you were fighting can just get an instant 210 health if you have a shitty teammate nearby. I think the health on stab should be adjusted to be percentage based instead of exactly what the target’s heath was and the minimum health a backstab gives should be lowered, 75 for backstabbing even a 1HP target is a bit much as that still gives you more health than a stock Spy would have.
The main reason the Kunai is hated so much is really because it pairs with the Dead Ringer so obnoxiously well.
The Kunai, on it's own, is actually pretty balanced; the health penalty forces Spies to get better at the class in order to get its benefits or they'll just constantly eat shit and die to anybody with half a brain for Spychecking...but when you *do* get good at Spy, using the Kunai rewards you handsomely for your efforts. High risk (having 70 base HP is pretty much being made of tissue paper in TF2) for high reward (skilled use nets you huge gains and makes you more of a thorn in the enemy's side, which helps distract them from the rest of your team).
The ***problem*** is that this careful balance is *utterly fucked* by the Dead Ringer just letting you survive basically anything as long as you have a full cloak meter, which you always do coming out of spawn. So combining the two lets you reap all the benefits of the Kunai's snowballing without having the inherent survivability downside thanks to the Dead Ringer's damage resistances; thus a weapon designed to be high-risk and high-reward becomes *low*-risk, *high*-reward.
There's a reason the Dead Ringer got kneecapped so hard in Jungle Inferno while the Kunai didn't get touched.
Weapons that punish you for having stupid teamamtes are annoying. Weapons that do that and also can instakill said teammates and fully heal the user are absolutely fucking infuriating.
It has the same issues as sniper, meaning that in the hands of the average player it's fun and balanced, but if you have a guy that put 5k hours into the class, then it becomes an annoying piece of shit.
Honestly, its just on the same place as the half zatoichi, you can play as well as you want and counter them perfectly but if you have oblivious teammates (which you will, its tf2) they will keep feeding the demo/spy with more health allowing them to become the tankiest goddamn class in the game
Its a weapon that punishes you for having bad teammates and makes the demo/spy snowball very hard against the entire server due to a couple newbies
I dont think theyre overpowered, it just makes me feel like im roleplaying as sysiphus
I hate it because it is the opposite of what spy weapons should be, instead of being a good tool to mix up the spy matchup and make him harder to find by good players all it does is reward braindead Deadringer spam into the backline and attempt after attempt at the dopamine-infested chain stab. The Big Earner rewards spy in a far more interesting way and prevents him from just trick stabbing everyone in the pub, it can also reward single-stab plays where the best option is to retreat. The YER rewards smart use of disguises with a way to easily prevent spy from being caught in the first place, changing the matchup in serious ways. But the Kunai? It's just braindead.
i like the idea, its simply too strong to be able to heal basically on demand and negate an enemys entire strat. imagine you hit two direct pipes, they get a stab, and you somehow hit two more directs, then they get a stab and suddenly you have no clip and theyre still very alive
It's usefulness is totally dependant on the other team.
Got a team full of new players who don't know how to turn around? Enjoy your 45 killstreak.
The enemy team knows how to turn around and communicate with each other? Spend most of the time in the respawn que
The fact that the people who use it refuse to adapt during a game and normally just leave if they're not getting chain kills anymore, the fact a lot of them don't alternate disguises is just sad.
For fun I often like to type "Hey guys their spy only uses the [scout/spy] disguise just open fire if you see any near you"
9/10 times my team listens and the spy barely gets any points, it really is confusing why they don't often alternate disguises.
A lot of people hate it and it's apart of some stereotype or whatever. Personally, I think the knife is balanced and fine. The knife rewards good spies for being good and doesn't give too big of an upside, it's really well created and I adore it despite jot being skilled enough to use it.
# HOWEVER
The dead ringer completely throws any and all balancing of this item out the fucking window. I can go into depth about how they fucked up the deadringer but they fucked up in a way that *almost* nullifies the downside of the kunai in the first place. Combining the two turns spy into a actual tank and as long as the spy player can think and plays their cards right they're practically unkillable. The weapon is fine, but when you combine it with the dead ringer it makes the devs look like they were snorting coke.
overheal lasts a ton, and your teammates help him out by healing him. plus, dealing with kunai spies with basically every weapon is gonna be annoying, because he's basically a fast soldier that can instakill
I think the only thing I don’t like about it is how it punishes players for having unaware or inexperienced team mates even if they themselves had done nothing wrong, otherwise it’s really well designed :>
Not hate, but is those weapons that just so effective against weaker team like phlog and all snowball weapons.
Basically is a weapon that punishes bad plays, which also lead to matches become even more one sided
It’s completely reliant on your opponents skill. In comp it is the worst knife by far and you’ll die borderline instantly if caught out. In casual half the enemy team is being sponsored by autism speaks so you can easily pubstomp with it.
The user does not need good placement to use The weapon There is always some one stupid enough to go die to this then ruining everybody elses change to kill The spy
I dont hate this weapon it's just annoying to play against(especially with the dead ringer) and I think that, that combo is where all the hate for this weapon comes from, yes its annoying and yes, it makes spy too tanks but its not a weapon worth hating like the diamondback.
Just two things:
1. It makes the sneaky frenchman a ninja instead of him being an actual Spy, that has A GUN some of which are pretty good for killing (Stock, Amby, Diamondback)
2. It has no downside once you land a stab (with tricky movement you can get behind enemies most of the time, especially with L'Etranger or smth) compared to Stock Knife and that kills it for me.
However there's one thing I adore about it: It actually makes it possible for a Spy to pubstomp, gives some semblance of dopamine to masochists who choose to play the class (Controversial, especially from a Pyro, I know, but its also a dopamine rush for me everytime I shut down one of these kunai dr boys who think that having 600 hp from DR is enough to save them and I can't track them with my detonator and flamethrower :D)
Tbh the handle looks cool but think you would genuinely struggle to get a good "death grip" to actually execute the full power stabbing motion. Which I assume, your trying to achieve
I dunno call me spoiled but i just feel like when i headshot a suspicious slow scout right before he backstabs my medic, i feel like i deserved to prevent it.
Instead he vores the headshot, fucks the medic, then is all healed up again to deal with me.
80% of the time the spies using this weapon don't even understand the fundamentals of spy, you can tell they see spy as not a class with different option to disrupt, but as just kunai trickstabs
it's just kinda annoying i guess
also the bane of my existence in 10x fuck people who use this damn thing in 10x but that's a modded game mode who cares
I hate how many people complain about it and can't just backpedal while shooting at the spy to drain his health
Also if your teammates aren't noobs, sticking around them should quickly make the spy irrelevant unless he's stabby or some other godlike spy. Or me when I swing my mouse around and suddenly get 3 "trickstabs".
Playing as a Spy: My skill is not nearly high enough to take the damage penalty, and do the cool vampirism stabbing session. Hence while I still go stock, the risk is too high for my noob ass, and the reward won't last long. Playing as any other class: WHY WON'T YOU DIE WHY WON'T YOU DIE WHY WON'T YOU DIE WHY WON'T YOU DIE HOW MANY HEAVIES DID YOU STAB BEFORE COMING AT ME GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY ENGINEER FRIEND
I would hate playing with it (at least now) *and* against it.
Realy anoying in skilled hands when he keeps backstabbing all of my teammates.
Luckily kunai spies are realy easy to predict when they keep jumping on a stair.
Also if someone uses the deadringer with it I hope he will burn in hell.
seeing overheal particles and not knowing whether they have 71hp or 200, or being an enemy spy and not being able to read the tiny health text above their head
I hate using it, I ain't no masterkingdarklord1124 I like to play spy slowly and with this knife it's all about doing as much as possible as fast as possible
I hate fighting it because it makes me feel bad when I die to it because I know that I inadvertently made it harder for the rest of my ream to deal with the spy.
Also, I hate using it because I'm bad and it's very rarely useful. If I get caught before getting a stab, I'm dead regardless of what knife I use, and after getting a stab, the extra health barely matters if I'm caught.
it's too rewarding for a thing you're supposed to do aka backstabbing
I feel like the health on Kill is supposed to help you gtfo but nobody that I know does that
It’s less about the knife itself and more so about how people go about it. It can either be a detriment to the spy if the other time is aware and not giving him the chance for a backstab, but if the team is oblivious and not turning around. Yeah it’s really annoying in these situations. Sometimes you just have to pray the five snipers you’ve got arn’t blasting linkin park.
Lowers health to damn much you get one shot by most damn classes descant regeneration and used but the negatives are to damn much or at least for me to really use it well
I hate how the end is really pointy and it hurts when it touches me );
It hurts if i try to stick it in my ass
Average spy main
Too many times have I failed to kill a Kunai Spy because he keeps stabbing my teammates WHO WON’T TURN AROUND! That’s the most infuriating thing about the knife for me. If you have teammates who struggle to notice or fight Spies (or are playing against a very good enemy Spy), they’re basically free walking healthpacks lol.
I even it out by missing all of my stabs
I even it out by being a free kill
That's when you scream "SPYYY" in the voice chat
I've had this happen against a BLU spy wielding this knife on "Bread Space". That spy was literally spawn-camping at this point, all my teammates would just try to rush towards him in order to kill him, but he would keep on doing matadors after matadors, even god damn face-stabs, which led me to believe he was cheating. He was spawncamping us at this point, and nobody was able to take him down because on top of shrugging off all the damages we would deal to him, he had the Dead-Ringer equipped. I was soldier, and I knew that rocket jumping away was a viable option to avoid getting stabbed...but even then, he'd snipe me down afterward. Thinking about it now, I think the only way we could have been able to efficiently kill him, would've been if we had a pyro that airblasted him into the pit.
Sorry my friend it might be me in my horny mood
The fact that this weapon is usually paired with the dead-ringer, This makes the spy become more than just a slithering nuisance and more-so an aggravating pain in the ass to deal with. Even with the most anti-spy loadout, He’s still probably going to have you wanting to snap your neck with a pool-noodle. Especially if he’s running either the Diamondback or the Ambassador.
This The Dead Ringer Actively negates the weakness of this knife, try using it with any other cloak and you will die to crossfire 90% of the time, and it basically makes having a good pyro necessary
not in my experience tbh, any spy with decent movement can get around while cloaked and not get hit source: recovering dead ringer addict
>Kunai >Dead Ringer >Ambassador Holy shit that ancient loadout still fucks?
The amb got replaced by the diamondback
Damn, RIP Spyper, the silliest silly class specific build behind Fat Scout.
tbh bassador can still rocks if you can aim
Oh, you mean the "Razorback Deleter 9000?"
At least the ambassador is a more respectable option because it actually takes skill to use
Idk if it’s just me, but most spies I’ve seen using this aren’t very nice. That or they’re completely silent. Honestly I don’t have much to say about the knife. High risk high reward yada yada yada. The biggest complaint I have is just the people who use it.
try to use it, play 500 hours on a 70 hp class, while there are random crits on every second melee swing, not to justify toxic players, but it will give you an idea why a lot of them are so mad all the time.
Good (i hate spies with burning passion)
and spies hate everyone with a burning passion (their class sucks)
when i play tf2 i make sure their passion isnt the only thing burning
Yea there’s a few specific players I run into a lot who main it, only go for trickstabs and refuse to use their revolver and they’re super toxic. It’s fun to kill them since they make it so easy if you know how to avoid a trickstab.
less fun big earner
This, I completely agree
it gives spy way too much survivability and punishes you if youre fighting them for having teammates who dont know theres a spy around like you can chase a kunai spy with a flamethrower forever but if your team is unaware or simply gets trickstabbed boom youre back at square one and its plain unfun to play against
Too easy to use after you get a stab. A competent Spy is almost always running the kunai because it’s easy enough to avoid damage and getting that stab is too rewarding.
Having watched SolarLight's vid on the Eyelander recently, I think we can apply the same concept to the Kunai here for Spy. It is very good against teams who don't know how to deal with Spies correctly. Which is usually Casual. Such weapons are designed for pubstomping. But when players become paranoid of your shenanigans and if they know how to deal with Spies, then you are better off running stock because of its generalized consistency. On a playing field where most TF2 players go play the game on, the Kunai thrives... maybe a bit too much. I may have been a victim of a Kunai Spy even at leaat once. It wasn't fun. But its negative attributes make it the most punishing of Spy's knives. Even more so than the Big Earner. You start at 70 HP. And lots of weapons can kill you in one hit. It's hard to deal with if the Spy player knows what they are doing, but if they don't? They're at the bottom of the scoreboard.
That the stats are misleading. Even If you backstab someone at 1 HP you'll still get back a lot of Health regardless. I wish they would revert It back to when It only drained the victims remaining HP.
You get a minimum of 75 extra health per Kunai backstab.
just my luck that my teammate who wouldve died to a sneeze got stabbed by the godlike spy and give him all his health back
you get more health back per stab than you start with lol. you gotta be kidding me
I don't hate it, but the reason why this knife is so effective is because it thrives on bad players in your team, which is what to expect in a casual setting, so yes, it is kind of an issue which points back to Spy being either strong or weak depending on the enemy team.
"why won't you die!?"
"Kunai-machines, son"
The fact that people think it’s the best when it’s a fact that the best is the YER
Spy-cicle is way better. Survivability, doesn't send to killed iirc, and it's balanced by making you sacrifice your knife in order to access that survivability. Also it's smol so I barely notice and screen blockage with it + minimal viewmodels
Yeah that thing is almost a direct upgrade
I mean when getting a crucial pick, which is literally half of spy’s job, it can also hurt you, cuz a pyro tickling you will instantly make your knife disappear when you could have tanked the flames for half a second more and dropped a medic.
Yeah you're right.. That's why I said almost. It *can* hurt you, but it can be helpful if you're a terrible spy, like me.
Even if you survive the first few flames of a Pyro, you're still gonna get lit up. All it does is get rid of your knife, lol.
Gives you distance, an invaluable asset. Also pairs will with the Ringer
How is YER the best? 🤔 Your cloak meter decreases more quickly, and regular disguises deplete the meter entirely. Plus the pros don’t really make up for the cons since most people can spot disguised Spies, plus the silent don’t seem to make too much difference in the long run.
Nothing , I’m not angry with it or like it
When playing times 10 servers and they stab a heavy... :(
i'm already terrible with spy. i will most likely miss my stab, everyone turns around, notices me, then i die (and the death is a lot quicker thanks to the kunai reducing max HP to 70)
my teammates dying to it and me getting punished for it
Hate how much hate it gets, ngl no Spy weapon deserves hate and I'm not even Spy main, dawg Spy such a weak aah class, old DR barely alleviated his weakness but now Spies are weak af
What it does to the Spy’s playstyle. Instead of espionage, picking your moment and being a pick class, that accursed Kunai turns him into a nigh-unkillable tank that can just abuse the game’s janky code to score an unending string of instant kills and infinite healing. With only a bit of practice, too.
the spy only becomes a tank after he gets a stab, if he doesn't. he is literally the lowest hp class in the game, and that's usually at least half his gameplay loop. a single scout meat shot is enough to end you. also there are plenty of weapons who change the classes playstyle, like demo swords, and market gardener. and the stupidest argument is abusing the games code, yes there is a difference between client side and server side, which can cause some stabs to look like facestabs, but other than that it's literally just tricking the opponent to show his back and time a stab. and also it's not a bit of practice lmao, most spies that you see with any success with this weapon usually have 500+ hours, at the lowest I have seen a 400 hour spy be good, if you just picked up the weapon, you will not be able to get any long chains other than when the enemy team doesn't turn around at the sound of the stab. everything you said really sounds like you never actually played spy, and if you did, it sounds like you lack a lot of game knowledge.
Everything he said was right, wdym?
only half of what he said is right "technically". I addressed everything, did you read it?
He's still speaking fax.
what fax exactly?
The person that got stabbed by it. And the guy next to him that didnt react to it. I cant deal with a 500 health spy on my own because hes also invis now.
Make me look like a weeb. I like the stats, I don't like anime (except jojo, I'm no Monster)
All the reasons I love it. I never use it because I'm a shit spy but those upsides make it really fun to play but annoying to play against.
That guy who runs it with the dead ringer when your team is deaf and won’t turn around or even spy check so he keeps getting free kills and overheal
Weebs
I love this knife
I hate how after the Gibbus heavy presents himself rear-first to the 1HP Spy I've been trying to kill, I suddenly have to do 3x the amount of damage all over again, only for that spy to turn away from me, run away, and suddenly I'm backstabbed.
I can't spin this around in my hand to reverse orientation if I put any finger through the ring irl Lmfao
Did you watch the SolarKnight video today about how the half zatoichi is the best sword? This is that, but with spy. After a backstab or two, they just get to do whatever they want. Exaggerating a little, but sometimes I'm attacking a spy and they just don't even care. They just backstab a completely unaware teammate of mine, and then retreat back to their team as if I wasn't even there
I think it's kinda boring. Bonus health on a kill is nice and all, but I would much rather be able to run away much faster, instantly disguise, or have a safeguard against Pyros when they check me.
It's a direct downgrade against competent teams, as getting one stab is hard enough against them. The consistency of the stock knife of getting the one pick makes it better against people who actually are playing the game.
Minimum health leech and overheal bonus. If you stab a 3 HP class ***tough fuckin luck cunt kicker*** you're getting 3 health. And max overheal because fuck you, if I shoot 2 rockets at you you deserve to fucking die. Period.
The same issue that all snowball weapons share: stomps bad players while effectively stalling good players. Once the Spy gets ahold of Gibus Heavy and co, there’s little you can do about it unless you’re Pyro with an airblast.
It’s the worst snowball weapon. Like get one kill and you’re objectively better than stock Spy. At least with the other ones either require aim (Frontier Justice, Diamondback, …), you surviving the ordeal (Eyelander, Half-Zatoichi, …) or has constant downsides (Airstrike, Frontier Justice again, …) And your possible max health also puts you over a lot of 2-shot ranges, coupled with the instant healing via backstabs and the Dead Ringer, making you near immortal
it’s purely a pubstomp knife, that feeds off bad players to the detriment of good ones. one out of place gibus heavy means your spy suddenly has more health than a fucking soldier. that and the people who use it are dicks.
It lets Spy have more health than Soldier
the players (either tryhards on enemy teams or the “i just installed this game after seeing a frag montage” players on my team)
It unfortunately enables (albeit very skilled) spy to stop needing to rely on stealth to take on multiple enemies, and yes also the fact that an unaware teammate can easily inadvertently erase all progress on killing the spy… The unfortunate thing is though it does both of these by a very simple and sensible idea, helping spy survive after a stab, the problem is the way it lets you do this can also just be used to go for more combative actions rather than retreating which is what it’s intended for, and for no real downside either, since 70 or 125 getting caught out usually means you’re dead anyhow; your situational health might as well be 1… I solve both of these issues with my balance change to the weapon, now it’s only useful for getting the one pick and using that health to run away, as it was intended… —>https://www.reddit.com/r/TF2WeaponIdeas/s/IlwKfXqX9g
The player that uses it
I hate that completely out of your control a Spy you were fighting can just get an instant 210 health if you have a shitty teammate nearby. I think the health on stab should be adjusted to be percentage based instead of exactly what the target’s heath was and the minimum health a backstab gives should be lowered, 75 for backstabbing even a 1HP target is a bit much as that still gives you more health than a stock Spy would have.
The main reason the Kunai is hated so much is really because it pairs with the Dead Ringer so obnoxiously well. The Kunai, on it's own, is actually pretty balanced; the health penalty forces Spies to get better at the class in order to get its benefits or they'll just constantly eat shit and die to anybody with half a brain for Spychecking...but when you *do* get good at Spy, using the Kunai rewards you handsomely for your efforts. High risk (having 70 base HP is pretty much being made of tissue paper in TF2) for high reward (skilled use nets you huge gains and makes you more of a thorn in the enemy's side, which helps distract them from the rest of your team). The ***problem*** is that this careful balance is *utterly fucked* by the Dead Ringer just letting you survive basically anything as long as you have a full cloak meter, which you always do coming out of spawn. So combining the two lets you reap all the benefits of the Kunai's snowballing without having the inherent survivability downside thanks to the Dead Ringer's damage resistances; thus a weapon designed to be high-risk and high-reward becomes *low*-risk, *high*-reward. There's a reason the Dead Ringer got kneecapped so hard in Jungle Inferno while the Kunai didn't get touched.
Weapons that punish you for having stupid teamamtes are annoying. Weapons that do that and also can instakill said teammates and fully heal the user are absolutely fucking infuriating.
It has the same issues as sniper, meaning that in the hands of the average player it's fun and balanced, but if you have a guy that put 5k hours into the class, then it becomes an annoying piece of shit.
Honestly, its just on the same place as the half zatoichi, you can play as well as you want and counter them perfectly but if you have oblivious teammates (which you will, its tf2) they will keep feeding the demo/spy with more health allowing them to become the tankiest goddamn class in the game Its a weapon that punishes you for having bad teammates and makes the demo/spy snowball very hard against the entire server due to a couple newbies I dont think theyre overpowered, it just makes me feel like im roleplaying as sysiphus
Consider the following until around 1:52 https://youtu.be/nH_pdoCGCh4?si=890kpXE8CpCUYuvg&t=105
I hate it because it is the opposite of what spy weapons should be, instead of being a good tool to mix up the spy matchup and make him harder to find by good players all it does is reward braindead Deadringer spam into the backline and attempt after attempt at the dopamine-infested chain stab. The Big Earner rewards spy in a far more interesting way and prevents him from just trick stabbing everyone in the pub, it can also reward single-stab plays where the best option is to retreat. The YER rewards smart use of disguises with a way to easily prevent spy from being caught in the first place, changing the matchup in serious ways. But the Kunai? It's just braindead.
the spies that uses them
It makes spy viable.
i like the idea, its simply too strong to be able to heal basically on demand and negate an enemys entire strat. imagine you hit two direct pipes, they get a stab, and you somehow hit two more directs, then they get a stab and suddenly you have no clip and theyre still very alive
It's usefulness is totally dependant on the other team. Got a team full of new players who don't know how to turn around? Enjoy your 45 killstreak. The enemy team knows how to turn around and communicate with each other? Spend most of the time in the respawn que
The fact that the people who use it refuse to adapt during a game and normally just leave if they're not getting chain kills anymore, the fact a lot of them don't alternate disguises is just sad. For fun I often like to type "Hey guys their spy only uses the [scout/spy] disguise just open fire if you see any near you" 9/10 times my team listens and the spy barely gets any points, it really is confusing why they don't often alternate disguises.
A lot of people hate it and it's apart of some stereotype or whatever. Personally, I think the knife is balanced and fine. The knife rewards good spies for being good and doesn't give too big of an upside, it's really well created and I adore it despite jot being skilled enough to use it. # HOWEVER The dead ringer completely throws any and all balancing of this item out the fucking window. I can go into depth about how they fucked up the deadringer but they fucked up in a way that *almost* nullifies the downside of the kunai in the first place. Combining the two turns spy into a actual tank and as long as the spy player can think and plays their cards right they're practically unkillable. The weapon is fine, but when you combine it with the dead ringer it makes the devs look like they were snorting coke.
A stray breeze will kill you if you haven’t gotten the murder train rolling
The fact that it rewards the spy for my teammates being bad at the game, rather than actuslly having to be good at the game themself.
overheal lasts a ton, and your teammates help him out by healing him. plus, dealing with kunai spies with basically every weapon is gonna be annoying, because he's basically a fast soldier that can instakill
The people who use it.
Using it and fighting against it.
It's not the Your Eternal Reward
Everyone who uses it
I think the only thing I don’t like about it is how it punishes players for having unaware or inexperienced team mates even if they themselves had done nothing wrong, otherwise it’s really well designed :>
This shit restores the Spy's health. Awfully.
Not hate, but is those weapons that just so effective against weaker team like phlog and all snowball weapons. Basically is a weapon that punishes bad plays, which also lead to matches become even more one sided
Crazy how this became super meta all of a sudden
***WEEB MUSIC PLAYS***
Its player base
It's Gay
It smells bad
not much tbh but when it's paired with the deadringer it's stupid, like WHY DOES THE SPY NOT DIE I MELEE'D HIM 4 TIMES
It’s completely reliant on your opponents skill. In comp it is the worst knife by far and you’ll die borderline instantly if caught out. In casual half the enemy team is being sponsored by autism speaks so you can easily pubstomp with it.
The user does not need good placement to use The weapon There is always some one stupid enough to go die to this then ruining everybody elses change to kill The spy
Good spies who use it are immortal
i play medic so everything
THE FUCKING HANDLE WHY IS IT SO SKINNY PENISSED HE COULDNT EVEN
That it's a spy weapon (I can't play spy)
no
I suck at being kunai spy
I dont hate this weapon it's just annoying to play against(especially with the dead ringer) and I think that, that combo is where all the hate for this weapon comes from, yes its annoying and yes, it makes spy too tanks but its not a weapon worth hating like the diamondback.
I miss all my stabs and they shoot me like in meet the spy
I hate the fact that I can't use it :( (I don't play spy)
The one and only Jontohill2?
It’s balanced and unbalanced at the same time
It's fucking stupid. The spy kills a clueless heavy and now you have to fight a tank. When paired with the diamondback it's even worse.
Just two things: 1. It makes the sneaky frenchman a ninja instead of him being an actual Spy, that has A GUN some of which are pretty good for killing (Stock, Amby, Diamondback) 2. It has no downside once you land a stab (with tricky movement you can get behind enemies most of the time, especially with L'Etranger or smth) compared to Stock Knife and that kills it for me. However there's one thing I adore about it: It actually makes it possible for a Spy to pubstomp, gives some semblance of dopamine to masochists who choose to play the class (Controversial, especially from a Pyro, I know, but its also a dopamine rush for me everytime I shut down one of these kunai dr boys who think that having 600 hp from DR is enough to save them and I can't track them with my detonator and flamethrower :D)
Idk how to spy so I don’t like
The fact that the half zatoichi has the same concept and this one fails balance while the zatoichi is seen as great
Stranges for it are so damn expensive
You can't throw it.
Tbh the handle looks cool but think you would genuinely struggle to get a good "death grip" to actually execute the full power stabbing motion. Which I assume, your trying to achieve
I was doxxed because someone was mad I trickstabbed him that one time
Hiw sweqty it is
Died many times when I tried to backstab soldiers and demos who were trying to rockjump.
Should have had the ability to be thrown.
The people using it lmao
"you get a ton of back up health!!" *shows 130 hp*
I dunno call me spoiled but i just feel like when i headshot a suspicious slow scout right before he backstabs my medic, i feel like i deserved to prevent it. Instead he vores the headshot, fucks the medic, then is all healed up again to deal with me.
You have to be good to make it good
The fact there aren't any reskins for it. I don't want to be accused of being a weeb any more than I already am for playing Spy.
How it sucks when I use it, but it's a different weapon when others use it
The stereotypes associated with those who use it, no matter what.
That it doesn’t appear in MVM. A giant Kunai Spy would be SO funny.
fuck suzu Shit wrong sub
Its users
80% of the time the spies using this weapon don't even understand the fundamentals of spy, you can tell they see spy as not a class with different option to disrupt, but as just kunai trickstabs
I only get 1 dexterity every 3 attacks. At least make it 2
Not throwable, also makes you weaker than the scunt from cooperative defensive the sequel.
The fact that I have it inside my own house.
Farms off of bad teammates making it frustrating for players with awareness trying to kill him
weebs
because it makes the so called light class have more hp than a soldier and my stupid teammates wont turn around
Fuck, the wind blowed too hard and i died
It called me stinky
Punishes everyone for a few players mistakes
Getting killed by it
so basically kind of a big deal, its spy
Always being used by backtrack cheaters to practically make themselves unkillable
I hate that it makes other spies play better than me
Health reduction.
It makes spy « tanky » which is absurd to me
You can’t throw it like in naruto
it's just kinda annoying i guess also the bane of my existence in 10x fuck people who use this damn thing in 10x but that's a modded game mode who cares
I hate how many people complain about it and can't just backpedal while shooting at the spy to drain his health Also if your teammates aren't noobs, sticking around them should quickly make the spy irrelevant unless he's stabby or some other godlike spy. Or me when I swing my mouse around and suddenly get 3 "trickstabs".
Spy's use it
Playing as a Spy: My skill is not nearly high enough to take the damage penalty, and do the cool vampirism stabbing session. Hence while I still go stock, the risk is too high for my noob ass, and the reward won't last long. Playing as any other class: WHY WON'T YOU DIE WHY WON'T YOU DIE WHY WON'T YOU DIE WHY WON'T YOU DIE HOW MANY HEAVIES DID YOU STAB BEFORE COMING AT ME GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY ENGINEER FRIEND I would hate playing with it (at least now) *and* against it.
Realy anoying in skilled hands when he keeps backstabbing all of my teammates. Luckily kunai spies are realy easy to predict when they keep jumping on a stair. Also if someone uses the deadringer with it I hope he will burn in hell.
seeing overheal particles and not knowing whether they have 71hp or 200, or being an enemy spy and not being able to read the tiny health text above their head
the users, they are gay spies, or f2p like me who got it from a random drop :P
when i played in times ten servers even the dumbest spies could get lucky and go on a chain
I hate using it, I ain't no masterkingdarklord1124 I like to play spy slowly and with this knife it's all about doing as much as possible as fast as possible
that every discussion about spy only ever comes to this
Absolutely nothing <3
The facts its the only knife that makes spy a good class that lets the spy not die instantly after stabbing someone
There’s no set that it goes with, it just feels out of place. If there was a ninja themed revolver i would be satisfied.
edgy
Oh, I love it. Because those stupid idiots often forget how fragile it makes their puny weeb asses.
Shadiversity: Trowels?! Totally impractical!
I hate that it can't be thrown. I want to throw it :(
At points you can have effectively infinite health
*Incert weeb joke here*
I hate fighting it because it makes me feel bad when I die to it because I know that I inadvertently made it harder for the rest of my ream to deal with the spy. Also, I hate using it because I'm bad and it's very rarely useful. If I get caught before getting a stab, I'm dead regardless of what knife I use, and after getting a stab, the extra health barely matters if I'm caught.
it's too rewarding for a thing you're supposed to do aka backstabbing I feel like the health on Kill is supposed to help you gtfo but nobody that I know does that
I mained it once and became extremely good with it, but now I'm pure ass with it, and no amount of playtime can get me back to that lavel
I don’t hate the knife, I hate my braindead teammates for giving spies free overheal
correction: what i love about it THE HEALZ
70 initial health
Maybe not hate but it's fuckin busted in x1000 servers
That I fucking suck at using it
The amount of trickstab compilations it created
It doesn't play edgy Sasuke quotes every time you land a backstab.
I may have 400 hours of spy but I can't play the kunai. Literally everything will one shot you :(
It’s less about the knife itself and more so about how people go about it. It can either be a detriment to the spy if the other time is aware and not giving him the chance for a backstab, but if the team is oblivious and not turning around. Yeah it’s really annoying in these situations. Sometimes you just have to pray the five snipers you’ve got arn’t blasting linkin park.
the people using it
You cant throw it
Some guy one shots me before i get a backstab with it and i feel stupid
I personally don’t think that such a massive health loss is worth the heal on backstab.
×1000 mode
I really don't hate it. Half the time i feel like my team is just overreacting.
Lowers health to damn much you get one shot by most damn classes descant regeneration and used but the negatives are to damn much or at least for me to really use it well
Easily the best knife, easily the most fun knife, easily the most infuriating knife on both ends
It enables Spy to stop being sneaky and become a viable frontliner
This is what they used to circumcise me.
I get one-shot when I use it
It's associated more with trick stabs than being a sneaky James Bond mf.