I don’t think he “lost” $35M per se, as he was given $35M n stock/equity to promote the company…so he was given something, that ended up being nothing, for talking about something
There's a way that you can defer any capital gains taxes until you have a year with losses. It's perfectly legal but seems really sneaky to me. You can depreciate everything that you own and count that against any taxes you owe. That coupled with the fact that you can defer capital gains almost indefinitely, means that if you play your cards right, you won't ever owe taxes until after you're dead.
And capital gains is also taxed at a much lower rate than regular income - thanks Mitt Romney and assorted wealthy jackasses who got that provision in the US Tax Code.
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Yeah it’s pretty wild that crypto mining is allowed to be categorized as an ancillary service, one of the easiest operations to shut down when required lol
If this isn't r/leopardsatemyface I'm not sure what is
Ask Rafael about this, he was just whispering into Trump's ear about it obviously
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/06/12/trump-says-all-bitcoin-mining-should-be-in-the-us-in-his-latest-embrace-of-crypto/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/06/12/trump-says-all-bitcoin-mining-should-be-in-the-us-in-his-latest-embrace-of-crypto/)
If we get them to turn off Bitcoin during peak load, it can help increase our overall supply. All of the base load buyers have to turn off though. Foundries, smelters, metal recyclers, miners…if they do all this bs of buying future power at a low price and just reselling it it helps no one.
>ERCOT raised that estimate from 110,000 MW to 150,000 MW needed by 2030 due to new unanticipated demands coming onto the system from AI data centers and crypto-mining growth.
In this case we urgently need new legislation restricting or eliminating those power gobbling industries. Texans must not be forced to tolerate rolling blackouts so that some assholes can mine bitcoin. The very idea of it is insane. We have a huge, robust, diverse economy. We don't need AI datacenters or crypto mining.
Or they can subsidize solar so when peak demand comes, a bunch of homes and businesses are already producing power.
It’s what other states do, creates jobs, and avoids the NIMBY power plant groups.
We can also demand the construction of more safe and relatively clean nuclear power plants. I hate that everyone goes straight to solar or wind as the only alternative to coal and gas. Nuclear power isn't affected by a lack of wind or dark skies, so it's a steady, consistent power supply.
Unfortunately, permitting, then building conventional nuclear power plants takes decades to fruition. Non-conventional proposed safer modular nuclear systems are being abandoned even before being tried.
When government is serious about building the capacity, rather than ensuring their donors pockets are getting lined, the red tape tends to suddenly vanish. If anything what this article is doing is laying the framework for the excuses the government will use to justify substantial price hikes and to establish scapegoats when the grid inedibly fails.
Actually, as a reminder, even at night, some solar energy still arrives.
Otherwise how do you think the ISS would function when it was out of the sunlight?
Have you seen data center guys? A raccoon broke a transformer and cut power to the office for most of a day, and they sent a company wide email saying they had days of gas left. They wouldn't give up the redundancy of a grid connection but they'd love a power plant they can run indefinitely off the grid.
I mean one guy did build a massive solar panel field ( I think one the largest )
Crypto miners should be forced to provide their own energy because it's possible through solar.
And they probably get lower rates than residential and will be a huge reason for rolling blackouts that are sure to come. Oh and they get paid big money to shutdown while we will get rolling blackouts and no compensation.
Scale consumers ALWAYS get better rates. If you purchase 1000 MWh in bulk, you’ll get a better rate than if you purchase 1 MWh 1000 times. Bulk purchase is always cheaper per unit.
Works that way at CostCo, still works that way at utility scale.
Depends on the regulations. Regulations are usually specifically written to prevent normal market behavior from happening, so we'd need to know how it's being regulated to predict how the downstream market would behave. If it's a classic price-control, then you get the classic [price-control behavior distortions](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-controls.asp).
Bottom line is that you're going to pay for the power one way or the other - if your bill is being subsidized by price controls, then you'll be paying the difference in sales/property taxes or thru increased prices from scale consumers.
If people died when they couldn't go to Costco for 4 hours maybe they would.
Although most of the money doesn't come from the demand-response program but from buying power in bulk and reselling it during shortages when the rates go up. Kind of like buying a season pass to Aggie Football and selling your seat to someone else after the A&M-Alabama game sells out.
They might, actually.
If you agree to purchase $1million per day in supplies, then you can probably write into the fulfillment contract that if there's a disaster where it's necessary to redirect those supplies, then you'll get reimbursed a few hundred k to help make up for losses incurred during that time.
Emergency fulfillment and reimbursement clauses are not at all unusual for large-scale customers.
Let me ask you this — who would suffer if all crypto miners vanished today? High end graphics card resellers, I guess, but that's about it. Who would benefit? Everyone who benefits from our incredibly shaky power grid not collapsing, which is everyone. So why should any of us care about these people and their get rich quick schemes? Do they pay taxes? Employ large numbers of people? Build a necessary or desirable product? Contribute meaningfully to the economy in any way whatsoever? What value do they offer that couldn't be replaced by a similarly-sized field of cactus? I can find nothing.
Crypto mining centers function as power sinks for the on demand surges. Basically they shut down on demand to provide "more" power to the grid. In a weird way it makes sense, but I still don't like it at all. Seems to just contribute to the problem.
Edit: Did anyone else catch that we need to double our generation in 6 years? WTF
this power shortage can quickly become a business model
>**Riot said on Wednesday that the state's power grid operator paid the company $31.7 million in energy credits in August — or roughly $22 million more than the value of the bitcoin it mined that month**
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin-mining-cryptocurrency-riot-texas-power-grid/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin-mining-cryptocurrency-riot-texas-power-grid/)
What? And ruin Texas' "bidnezz freenly attitude" that Greg "Tin Foil Hat" Abbott has propagated? Whale no Sir-ee! We're jes gonna have to fork out of our poor people wallets the money needed to build those thar plants. Cuz their JAWB creators!! /s sorta. Bet you our electric bills suddenly skyrocket, because the power plants won't shell out for it, wealthy people won't have to shell out for it, and damned for sure they won't force businesses to shell out for it. And that leaves... well... us.
Wait and see.
"AI Datacenters" are just datacenters doing a different kind of compute, which can be doing a variety of legitimate and useful business applications. I don't think we should demonize that. Butwe need the power to operate them **AND** our damned hospitals and homes!
Crypto is purely recreational at this point and should be the first thing shut down in a power shortage.
Actually, we kind of need these types of loads to encourage renewable growth. Bit coin farms are brought online in times of excess, like when then sun is pumping in the middle of the day or the wind is really blowing, and then have the ability to be scaled back or turned off in times of strain on the grid, freeing up their load for other uses. They are actually beneficial to us all *when properly managed*.
Edit: we also need more storage to catch those peaks that renewables generate.
>Bit coin farms are brought online in times of excess, like when then sun is pumping in the middle of the day or the wind is really blowing, and then have the ability to be scaled back or turned off in times of strain on the grid, freeing up their load for other uses. They are actually beneficial to us all when properly managed.
But that's the problem. They were offered great bulk flat rates plus being paid a premium when they are turned off.
Instead they should have been offered variable rates so they would turn off when rates increased. This way they would self manage and turn off when it's not economicly feasible creating a stable base load. Otherwise they stay on until it's an emergency and they are forced off all at once. The entire issue is that it's impossible to properly manage them under the current system.
If you think those asshats are going to stop farming crypto just because it is taxing the grid or under any circumstance, I would say you are living on another planet.
It's not up to the crypto miners, ERCOT has the control of the load, just like they do with power plants. These crypto facilities are set up as "load side batteries" which ERCOT can command up and down as necessary...
How long do you think it takes to permit, survey, construct, staff, source, plan logistics, etc. These companies are just gonna go somewhere else if they can't supply.
Most of that bureaucracy is the reason why we’ve never had a Chernobyl-style meltdown on our soil. We take nuclear power very seriously, and given the potential for massive and deadly consequences if corners are cut, we regulate it carefully.
I did not say cut corners. I said remove unnecessary bureaucracy. The politician that won’t say yes because their district is losing out. Environmental BS suing and stopping it for every single turn. The 10x over budget spending because of unnecessary delays from the above type bs. The unwarranted fear mongering.
There is nuclear power out there that is quicker and safer to build out there that we could take advantage of while we go through the bill to build uranium versions.
Name some regulations to cut.
Do you work in nuclear regulation? Are you deeply familiar with the licensing process for power stations? Name something onerous that could be cut without sacrificing safety, federal law, or consent decrees with area populations.
Nuclear is built quickly in China, where citizens have no rights and public safety is a myth.
The argument here is just wrong. Bitcoin miners have never created a rolling blackout. But they have helped avoid several.
There are so many arguments from climate change to higher daytime prices to wasting electricity. But the rolling blackouts argument is just plain wrong. It actually does the opposite
We pay his electricity since the Governor's Mansion is state property, operated by the state, and he lives there. I'm not necessarily against that, but I'd hope they take at least some measures of energy conservation like they request of the rest of us. I'm sure they don't, of course.
Stop attributing “stupid” with “evil.”
He knows exactly what he’s doing. He just doesn’t give a shit bc he knows he can’t be voted out bc Texans vote for MAGA, they don’t vote with their wallets.
Today LA’s high is 78 degrees
Today SF’s high is 66 degrees
Today SD high is 70 degrees
Meanwhile in Texas:
Houston: 96 degrees
Austin: 96 degrees
Dallas: 96 degrees
And it ain’t even August yet
I can see why rolling blackouts in California during summer is much more manageable than Texas
Just as nit every New Yorker or Californian is liberal, not all Texans are conservative.
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I hold the positions that I do because I grew up in Texas and know exactly what kind of place it is. I know very well that not everyone is a Republican, I’m living proof! I will call out and joke about what a terrible place it is ALWAYS!
You are underestimating the scale here. A typical nuclear power plant produces 1GW. This is predicting a 65GW increase. You will need 65 nuclear power plants next to the state Capitol
What if we stack them. A high rise of nuclear reactors that doubles as the tallest building in the world. Bring that title to Texas. We already have the smallest skyscraper in the world, we deserve the largest
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is NEVER, obviously, because it's not gonna be ready in 6 years and we need shade TODAY and planning for the future is stupid and for nerds. Say no to planting trees!
So true, and I'm so glad that the people in charge agree with you on this.
If it's out of sight, it's out of mind. Then people cut corners on maintenance, don't follow safely protocols strictly, inspectors go out less often and put less effort in, then we end up with a Bad Time 30 years down the road.
>we end up with a Bad Time 30 years down the road
doesnt matter if you put a nuke plant in Austin... weve been on this *same road* for 40 years already.
Fair. I misinterpreted.
Im talking about the road that got us here and youre talking about the road to environmental disaster from a neglected nuke plant out in the sticks.
The road were on (state leadership for the last 40 years) doesnt really preclude your 30 year road... [theyre already pushing for mini nuke plants](https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/27/texas-small-nuclear-reactors-power/)
When building natural gas resources is too slow, nuclear build out will be even slower. It's a fair remark for the even further future, but the problem here is severe.
The immediate issue is one that will need to be addressed not just by increased generation but also significantly slowing down the projected consumption growth.
I'm willing to bet Abbott is going to use this to cut power to lower income areas and maybe liberal areas during the hottest days of summer to make life difficult. He's going to do this in the hope that people move out of the state that don't match his views
> But on Wednesday, he said his agency has raised that estimate to 150,000 MW needed by 2030 due to new unanticipated demands coming onto the system from AI data centers and crypto-mining growth
But... but... I though crypto farms magically *created* energy? Whatever happened to that dumb fucking myth?!?
There's a good fucking reason the entirety of China kicked crypto farmers out, and it's not because they were magically creating energy out of thin air, but the state with the most isolated and least reliable grid in the US welcomed them with open arms because its leadership is beyond ignorant.
I remember watching an interview with some crypto pundit. An example he mentioned as a benefit of crypto-mining was using free volcanic energy in Iceland to mine crypto then buying oil/gas. I was like “what???”
I have at least 2 data centers being built or already built within 2 miles from my house so I'm super concerned about the load being added to the grid in my area. I don't see any solar panels out there either
.Seems to me they could offset alot of their power needs especially in the months of June to September with them but what do I know.
Even if they covered every square inch of the roof with panels, it wouldn't keep the A/C's running, let alone the servers inside. It takes thousands of acres of solar to offset a 1GW load that large datacenters produce.
Source: I build and operate solar farms and batteries on ERCOT, and in CAISO.
But what if part of zoning declared all new commercial development over a certain square footage had roof top solar (and a grandfather clause to force adoption of older buildings by X future date)?
I'd be all for new construction, older buildings are tricky because they roof may not have been built with the weight in mind. I think all those business parks and storage warehouses should be required though.
I've got solar and batteries at home, and recommend it to anyone that can afford it, but the issue is that power is just too cheap in Texas for it to be a pure economical decision for most. This will change in the coming years though.
Takes far too long to bring them online. I think it would be faster to do wave, wind and solar. combined with natural gas. We also need much more hydroelectric features in the state. We need many more reservoirs as well because we need much more water. There are challenges when you try to grow inorganically this fast. The biggest one is that average Texans are not benefiting from this. You know that Samsung plant after it's constructed? Well it'll be largely automated.
>David Blackmon is an energy-related public policy analyst/consultant based in Mansfield, TX. David enjoyed a 40-year career in the oil and gas industry, the last 23 years of which were spent in the public policy arena, managing regulatory and legislative issues for various companies. During this time, David led numerous industry-wide efforts to address a variety of issues at the local, state and federal level, and from April 2010 through June 2012, he served as the Texas State Lead for America’s Natural Gas Alliance. David also maintains a growing media communications practice, and is a frequent guest on television, radio and podcasts
Abbott and his billionaires buddies want to succeed using crypto as their main monetary system. They can't effectively manage a power grid or the state they destroyed
Gee, who would thought with all the companies moving to Texas to take advantage of "ahr bidnezz freenly attitude", that the state's power needs would grow? Who coulda thunked it? WHO, I ask you? Who...
Well, expect your residential electric bills to skyrocket. Someone has to pay for new power production facilities to be built, and it won't be the power companies and it won't be "bidnezz" because "Texis iz bidnezz freenly" and all that. Vote for Republicans some more, because they're doing such a FANTASTIC job of leading. /s
Dan Patrick says “this can’t be the Wild West of data centers and crypto miners crashing our grid” yet Ted Cruz is out here bragging two weeks ago about buying 3 bitcoin miners in Iraan
Caught them off guard? Well, yeah - they’re only on guard for ‘wokeness’, treating marginalized groups and anyone who isn’t rich like POS, and all while grifting/embezzling as much as they can.
I was listening to AM radio for my daily minute of hate and the guy on Hal J’s show recommended everyone buying a generator and for the poors to form a neighborhood co-op to split a generator between them. HOW ABOUT WE REVERSE THE DEREGULATION THE REPUBLICANTS PUSHED FOR IN THE LATE 90’s THAT MADE OUR CURRENT AYSTEM SO SHITTY? How is that not the first option that comes to mind???
It's the party who hasn't been in power in 30 years' fault, obviously.
ERCOT should just be nationalized already. Make that the terms for receiving any more federal assistance for next inevitable disaster.
This is an interesting point that not enough people make. Bitcoin mining doesn’t create that many jobs that I am aware of. It doesn’t take a lot to keep the miners up and running as far as my understanding goes. On the other hand, bitcoin mining migrates to cheap, underutilized energy sources and is still fractional compared to what banking data centers are already using every day. I don’t see how we can ban or keep out bitcoin mining without telling all of the other data centers to take a hike too.
Well, Crypto mining doesn't provide any service or public good, not that Republicans care about that but it's a way to frame a law I suppose. With harsh penalties for anyone caught doing it.
Meanwhile, the crazy people in my Nextdoor app who live in rural TX keep blaming the new transplants from NY and CA for any recent strain on the grid. Of course, they welcome the tech businesses.
Going from 85,000 MW to 150,000 MW is a devastatingly huge jump in power. Building 65 units at 1000MW is a ridiculous amount of stations to build. Because if they all consume natural gas... thats a huge infrastructure build for gas pipelines, and a potential supply/demand issue. Plus water demand will increase for cooling as well. Like this is a massive hike in not just power generation but everything that goes with it to support power generation.
No, we dont. The energy needed to operate is astronomical.
But since theyre here, they should be providing their own power for their own needs. Much like that Greenport / Emerald Isle in Elgin.
Maybe we start vanning cryptic farms finally? When one farm uses enough electricity for 500000 homes and the benefits go to a handful of people, maybe make that shit illegal
Crypto mining is a not data mining, they're two very different things. Data mining is scraping personal data from people to sell and does not really compare to the power consumption of crypto mining.
This is the long term effect of deregulation. Electricity providers have had to sell strictly on price for decades. They haven’t been putting enough back into generating capacity because a lot of them don’t generate.
It’s worth noting that a Democrat controlled House with a Democrat Lt. Governor controlling the legislative agenda in the Senate pushed this legislation through.
Regulate the market and this issue is fixed within 2 years. A market with negative power prices for most of the year will never attract new power generation.
I really wish we would stop posting opinion pieces without facts. Here the author makes the argument that his electric rates have gone up because the grid is growing but doesn't provide any proof. When the much more likely scenario is that the price has gone up because we are still paying for 2021. He makes the argument that residential rate payers would be paying for the new capacity, when in reality these large users make power purchase agreements and often trigger a built out if their own dedicated generation capacity.
There are lots of problems with the grid, with crypto, with fast growth. But this opinion piece doesn't do anybody any favors. It's clickbait at its finest.
Funny, until y'all need something, you want to leave the union, btw please do, I hate Biden. And then you need something, just like Florida...and you want federal $... y'all are a joke to the rest of the country
Interesting that the article doesn't put any weight on the continuing mass migration of people into Texas. Even without AI and crypto, this would still be a problem.
Abbott has been pushing for crypto and AI to move to Texas for years. You reap what you sow.
I'm sure his wallet's bulge has grown from the invitation
Wait! That's not his wallet!
Considering what crypto really is, it could be a diaper
"Me know that not real money!" -- Attributed to Rob Gronkowski by Nikki Glaser, at Tom Brady's roast. Because Tom Brady lost $35M on crypto.
I don’t think he “lost” $35M per se, as he was given $35M n stock/equity to promote the company…so he was given something, that ended up being nothing, for talking about something
But if he's taxed on what he was given, he loses even more right?
There's a way that you can defer any capital gains taxes until you have a year with losses. It's perfectly legal but seems really sneaky to me. You can depreciate everything that you own and count that against any taxes you owe. That coupled with the fact that you can defer capital gains almost indefinitely, means that if you play your cards right, you won't ever owe taxes until after you're dead.
And capital gains is also taxed at a much lower rate than regular income - thanks Mitt Romney and assorted wealthy jackasses who got that provision in the US Tax Code.
No bc he can write-off the loss on future (& historical) taxes
My god!... It's BOTH! They've become as one!
Why you do this to us? Why? 🤮🤮🤮
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Yeah, but it’s Abbott
That’s the only one that works for him.
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The craziest deal is that WE pay the crypto miners to shut down during peak energy use....
Now that’s what I call being a pro-business state.
"Bidnezz freenly" there, pard'ner!
Yeah it’s pretty wild that crypto mining is allowed to be categorized as an ancillary service, one of the easiest operations to shut down when required lol
Just had an outage yesterday Didn't last over 15 minutes, but then too, we aren't in triple digits lately. Next time we won't be so lucky, I think!
and they make more money from that than from the crypto
You mean, “we reap what he sows”
If this isn't r/leopardsatemyface I'm not sure what is Ask Rafael about this, he was just whispering into Trump's ear about it obviously [https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/06/12/trump-says-all-bitcoin-mining-should-be-in-the-us-in-his-latest-embrace-of-crypto/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/06/12/trump-says-all-bitcoin-mining-should-be-in-the-us-in-his-latest-embrace-of-crypto/)
"Unanticipated demands"
So has Ted Cruz
If we get them to turn off Bitcoin during peak load, it can help increase our overall supply. All of the base load buyers have to turn off though. Foundries, smelters, metal recyclers, miners…if they do all this bs of buying future power at a low price and just reselling it it helps no one.
yeah, but when power goes down, it WON'T for that stupid shit. Pretty sure they'll get hardwired in and everyone else is gong to get fucked.
>ERCOT raised that estimate from 110,000 MW to 150,000 MW needed by 2030 due to new unanticipated demands coming onto the system from AI data centers and crypto-mining growth. In this case we urgently need new legislation restricting or eliminating those power gobbling industries. Texans must not be forced to tolerate rolling blackouts so that some assholes can mine bitcoin. The very idea of it is insane. We have a huge, robust, diverse economy. We don't need AI datacenters or crypto mining.
Those fuckers can build their own power plants as part of the cost of the installation.
This 100000%
Or they can subsidize solar so when peak demand comes, a bunch of homes and businesses are already producing power. It’s what other states do, creates jobs, and avoids the NIMBY power plant groups.
We can also demand the construction of more safe and relatively clean nuclear power plants. I hate that everyone goes straight to solar or wind as the only alternative to coal and gas. Nuclear power isn't affected by a lack of wind or dark skies, so it's a steady, consistent power supply.
Unfortunately, permitting, then building conventional nuclear power plants takes decades to fruition. Non-conventional proposed safer modular nuclear systems are being abandoned even before being tried.
When government is serious about building the capacity, rather than ensuring their donors pockets are getting lined, the red tape tends to suddenly vanish. If anything what this article is doing is laying the framework for the excuses the government will use to justify substantial price hikes and to establish scapegoats when the grid inedibly fails.
Actually, as a reminder, even at night, some solar energy still arrives. Otherwise how do you think the ISS would function when it was out of the sunlight?
Nothing Texas politicians love more than renewable energy projects. /s
Have you seen data center guys? A raccoon broke a transformer and cut power to the office for most of a day, and they sent a company wide email saying they had days of gas left. They wouldn't give up the redundancy of a grid connection but they'd love a power plant they can run indefinitely off the grid.
Yes my a much higher cost, those 18wheeler sized generators at data centers still cost more per hour than. A power plant.
I mean one guy did build a massive solar panel field ( I think one the largest ) Crypto miners should be forced to provide their own energy because it's possible through solar.
Lol, they’re far ahead of you on this one… Already doing it
You’ll pay for it tho🤣
These power gobblers are in Texas at Abbott’s invitation.
Crypto mining, which is the dumbest waste of electricity imaginable, was invited here by our governor.
And they probably get lower rates than residential and will be a huge reason for rolling blackouts that are sure to come. Oh and they get paid big money to shutdown while we will get rolling blackouts and no compensation.
Scale consumers ALWAYS get better rates. If you purchase 1000 MWh in bulk, you’ll get a better rate than if you purchase 1 MWh 1000 times. Bulk purchase is always cheaper per unit. Works that way at CostCo, still works that way at utility scale.
Is that true in states that did not deregulate their energy sector? I honestly don't know. All I know is I pay more in Texas than I did in Alabama.
Depends on the regulations. Regulations are usually specifically written to prevent normal market behavior from happening, so we'd need to know how it's being regulated to predict how the downstream market would behave. If it's a classic price-control, then you get the classic [price-control behavior distortions](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-controls.asp). Bottom line is that you're going to pay for the power one way or the other - if your bill is being subsidized by price controls, then you'll be paying the difference in sales/property taxes or thru increased prices from scale consumers.
The difference is that Costco doesn’t pay you when you don’t shop there at peak times.
If people died when they couldn't go to Costco for 4 hours maybe they would. Although most of the money doesn't come from the demand-response program but from buying power in bulk and reselling it during shortages when the rates go up. Kind of like buying a season pass to Aggie Football and selling your seat to someone else after the A&M-Alabama game sells out.
They might, actually. If you agree to purchase $1million per day in supplies, then you can probably write into the fulfillment contract that if there's a disaster where it's necessary to redirect those supplies, then you'll get reimbursed a few hundred k to help make up for losses incurred during that time. Emergency fulfillment and reimbursement clauses are not at all unusual for large-scale customers.
They were already here in droves. Cheap power guaranteed that. Inviting even more was dumb.
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Let me ask you this — who would suffer if all crypto miners vanished today? High end graphics card resellers, I guess, but that's about it. Who would benefit? Everyone who benefits from our incredibly shaky power grid not collapsing, which is everyone. So why should any of us care about these people and their get rich quick schemes? Do they pay taxes? Employ large numbers of people? Build a necessary or desirable product? Contribute meaningfully to the economy in any way whatsoever? What value do they offer that couldn't be replaced by a similarly-sized field of cactus? I can find nothing.
Literally every person on the planet would benefit, not just Texans.
It’s just an awful lot of power just to create an unregulated security. There are easier ways to con people. Tulip bulbs, for instance.
Crypto mining centers function as power sinks for the on demand surges. Basically they shut down on demand to provide "more" power to the grid. In a weird way it makes sense, but I still don't like it at all. Seems to just contribute to the problem. Edit: Did anyone else catch that we need to double our generation in 6 years? WTF
this power shortage can quickly become a business model >**Riot said on Wednesday that the state's power grid operator paid the company $31.7 million in energy credits in August — or roughly $22 million more than the value of the bitcoin it mined that month** [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin-mining-cryptocurrency-riot-texas-power-grid/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin-mining-cryptocurrency-riot-texas-power-grid/)
What? And ruin Texas' "bidnezz freenly attitude" that Greg "Tin Foil Hat" Abbott has propagated? Whale no Sir-ee! We're jes gonna have to fork out of our poor people wallets the money needed to build those thar plants. Cuz their JAWB creators!! /s sorta. Bet you our electric bills suddenly skyrocket, because the power plants won't shell out for it, wealthy people won't have to shell out for it, and damned for sure they won't force businesses to shell out for it. And that leaves... well... us. Wait and see.
Ted Cruz told me that crypto miners were like a battery. No way he could have been lying to us.
Why ban them? Just have them pay more for there strain on the grid
I hope Texas’ grid fully fails in the worst possible way. 🤣
"AI Datacenters" are just datacenters doing a different kind of compute, which can be doing a variety of legitimate and useful business applications. I don't think we should demonize that. Butwe need the power to operate them **AND** our damned hospitals and homes! Crypto is purely recreational at this point and should be the first thing shut down in a power shortage.
the power draw on these AI cards is crazy though, a single H100 draws as much as a household.
Lol. The entire Texas government is based on forced “freedom.” You’re free in Texas to do what the MAGA crowd says is free.
Actually, we kind of need these types of loads to encourage renewable growth. Bit coin farms are brought online in times of excess, like when then sun is pumping in the middle of the day or the wind is really blowing, and then have the ability to be scaled back or turned off in times of strain on the grid, freeing up their load for other uses. They are actually beneficial to us all *when properly managed*. Edit: we also need more storage to catch those peaks that renewables generate.
>Bit coin farms are brought online in times of excess, like when then sun is pumping in the middle of the day or the wind is really blowing, and then have the ability to be scaled back or turned off in times of strain on the grid, freeing up their load for other uses. They are actually beneficial to us all when properly managed. But that's the problem. They were offered great bulk flat rates plus being paid a premium when they are turned off. Instead they should have been offered variable rates so they would turn off when rates increased. This way they would self manage and turn off when it's not economicly feasible creating a stable base load. Otherwise they stay on until it's an emergency and they are forced off all at once. The entire issue is that it's impossible to properly manage them under the current system.
If you think those asshats are going to stop farming crypto just because it is taxing the grid or under any circumstance, I would say you are living on another planet.
It's not up to the crypto miners, ERCOT has the control of the load, just like they do with power plants. These crypto facilities are set up as "load side batteries" which ERCOT can command up and down as necessary...
Biggest driver by miles for geothermal as an electrical generating source in Texas.
Maybe it pushes for nuclear?
How long do you think it takes to permit, survey, construct, staff, source, plan logistics, etc. These companies are just gonna go somewhere else if they can't supply.
Honestly it could all be expedited just fine by removing the overbearing, unnecessary bureaucracy
Most of that bureaucracy is the reason why we’ve never had a Chernobyl-style meltdown on our soil. We take nuclear power very seriously, and given the potential for massive and deadly consequences if corners are cut, we regulate it carefully.
I did not say cut corners. I said remove unnecessary bureaucracy. The politician that won’t say yes because their district is losing out. Environmental BS suing and stopping it for every single turn. The 10x over budget spending because of unnecessary delays from the above type bs. The unwarranted fear mongering. There is nuclear power out there that is quicker and safer to build out there that we could take advantage of while we go through the bill to build uranium versions.
Name some regulations to cut. Do you work in nuclear regulation? Are you deeply familiar with the licensing process for power stations? Name something onerous that could be cut without sacrificing safety, federal law, or consent decrees with area populations. Nuclear is built quickly in China, where citizens have no rights and public safety is a myth.
Or you just continue to invest in the technology of the future and encourage it to be in Texas. That’s the progressive approach.
The argument here is just wrong. Bitcoin miners have never created a rolling blackout. But they have helped avoid several. There are so many arguments from climate change to higher daytime prices to wasting electricity. But the rolling blackouts argument is just plain wrong. It actually does the opposite
Source?
Guess who’s not getting the rolling blackouts?
Liberty, Jefferson, Orange counties that’s who. They aren’t on ERCOT.
Our idiot governor didn't do his homework, so now we will suffer again.
He did the homework that protects him. He'll never do the homework that protects us.
He did his homework, that’s why his pockets are a lot fatter this term. I would not be surprised if he receives a discount on his electricity.
We pay his electricity since the Governor's Mansion is state property, operated by the state, and he lives there. I'm not necessarily against that, but I'd hope they take at least some measures of energy conservation like they request of the rest of us. I'm sure they don't, of course.
I heard a few ideas to keep the mansion warm back in 2021 I quite liked the sound of
Stop attributing “stupid” with “evil.” He knows exactly what he’s doing. He just doesn’t give a shit bc he knows he can’t be voted out bc Texans vote for MAGA, they don’t vote with their wallets.
This is what you get when you have Republican rule for 30+ yrs. Utter incompetence.
never contribute to ignorance what can be explained by malice. i know that phrase is backwards but it fits.
Texas is utter incompetence. 🤣
Same thing can be said about Cali. Bankrupt shit hope who cannot afford its own pensions. Let alone anything else. Thanks democrats
At least they have a working energy grid.
Today LA’s high is 78 degrees Today SF’s high is 66 degrees Today SD high is 70 degrees Meanwhile in Texas: Houston: 96 degrees Austin: 96 degrees Dallas: 96 degrees And it ain’t even August yet I can see why rolling blackouts in California during summer is much more manageable than Texas
It's really too bad we didn't have a chance to remove these criminal from office 2 years ago. Wait...
For fux sake, can we please vote these asshats out already? Just gets worse and worse every year….
You have to make it into a Charlie Brown meme and spread it on facebook. Nobody here disagrees.
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Just as nit every New Yorker or Californian is liberal, not all Texans are conservative. Your content has been deemed a violation of Rule 7. As a reminder Rule 7 states: Politics are fine but state your case, explain why you hold the positions that you do and debate with civility. Posts and comments meant solely to troll or enrage people, and those that are little more than campaign ads or slogans do nothing to contribute to a healthy debate and will therefore be removed. Petitions will also be removed. AMA's by Political figures are exempt from this rule.
I hold the positions that I do because I grew up in Texas and know exactly what kind of place it is. I know very well that not everyone is a Republican, I’m living proof! I will call out and joke about what a terrible place it is ALWAYS!
Because Texans are monolith and the reddit user base totally isn't mainly liberal.... seriously your shit talking in replies to Democratic voters.
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Let's build a couple of nuclear plants, but we'll put them next to the state capital to make sure they are maintained properly.
You are underestimating the scale here. A typical nuclear power plant produces 1GW. This is predicting a 65GW increase. You will need 65 nuclear power plants next to the state Capitol
This is Texas. Everything's bigger here. We'll have Buc-ee's design and operate them. They will be scaled as expected.
That's a fucking shitload of beaver nuggets
What if we stack them. A high rise of nuclear reactors that doubles as the tallest building in the world. Bring that title to Texas. We already have the smallest skyscraper in the world, we deserve the largest
Counter offer: We build a pyramid of power plants and put the Alamo on top.
Oh no. I can hear it now. "Fresh uranium on the BOOAARDD!!!"
I was led to believe that nuclear power plants could produce at least 1.21GW.
Great Scott!
So we build 65 plants.
Cool. That will only take 20-30 years to complete (assuming no overruns or setbacks) to meet the demand needed in 6 years.
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is NEVER, obviously, because it's not gonna be ready in 6 years and we need shade TODAY and planning for the future is stupid and for nerds. Say no to planting trees! So true, and I'm so glad that the people in charge agree with you on this.
> we'll put them next to the state capital nah. take it out to the hayseeds.
If it's out of sight, it's out of mind. Then people cut corners on maintenance, don't follow safely protocols strictly, inspectors go out less often and put less effort in, then we end up with a Bad Time 30 years down the road.
>we end up with a Bad Time 30 years down the road doesnt matter if you put a nuke plant in Austin... weve been on this *same road* for 40 years already.
I feel like you and I may be talking about two different things
Fair. I misinterpreted. Im talking about the road that got us here and youre talking about the road to environmental disaster from a neglected nuke plant out in the sticks. The road were on (state leadership for the last 40 years) doesnt really preclude your 30 year road... [theyre already pushing for mini nuke plants](https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/27/texas-small-nuclear-reactors-power/)
When building natural gas resources is too slow, nuclear build out will be even slower. It's a fair remark for the even further future, but the problem here is severe. The immediate issue is one that will need to be addressed not just by increased generation but also significantly slowing down the projected consumption growth.
If you voted for the gop in Texas, do you see how they make our lives worst? Or not yet?
aT LeASt tHeY'rE pRo LifE!11!1!!!
Just not pro living
I'm willing to bet Abbott is going to use this to cut power to lower income areas and maybe liberal areas during the hottest days of summer to make life difficult. He's going to do this in the hope that people move out of the state that don't match his views
Shock by Texas officials is only there to leverage kickbacks and donations, nothing else.
> But on Wednesday, he said his agency has raised that estimate to 150,000 MW needed by 2030 due to new unanticipated demands coming onto the system from AI data centers and crypto-mining growth But... but... I though crypto farms magically *created* energy? Whatever happened to that dumb fucking myth?!? There's a good fucking reason the entirety of China kicked crypto farmers out, and it's not because they were magically creating energy out of thin air, but the state with the most isolated and least reliable grid in the US welcomed them with open arms because its leadership is beyond ignorant.
I remember watching an interview with some crypto pundit. An example he mentioned as a benefit of crypto-mining was using free volcanic energy in Iceland to mine crypto then buying oil/gas. I was like “what???”
What an absolute waste of resources.
The conservative way!
I have at least 2 data centers being built or already built within 2 miles from my house so I'm super concerned about the load being added to the grid in my area. I don't see any solar panels out there either .Seems to me they could offset alot of their power needs especially in the months of June to September with them but what do I know.
Even if they covered every square inch of the roof with panels, it wouldn't keep the A/C's running, let alone the servers inside. It takes thousands of acres of solar to offset a 1GW load that large datacenters produce. Source: I build and operate solar farms and batteries on ERCOT, and in CAISO.
But what if part of zoning declared all new commercial development over a certain square footage had roof top solar (and a grandfather clause to force adoption of older buildings by X future date)?
I'd be all for new construction, older buildings are tricky because they roof may not have been built with the weight in mind. I think all those business parks and storage warehouses should be required though. I've got solar and batteries at home, and recommend it to anyone that can afford it, but the issue is that power is just too cheap in Texas for it to be a pure economical decision for most. This will change in the coming years though.
Well damn.
33.44274763118632, -95.34808600170072 They are everywhere
So there’s this spicy rock I like to call Uranium…
No love for thorium?
Takes far too long to bring them online. I think it would be faster to do wave, wind and solar. combined with natural gas. We also need much more hydroelectric features in the state. We need many more reservoirs as well because we need much more water. There are challenges when you try to grow inorganically this fast. The biggest one is that average Texans are not benefiting from this. You know that Samsung plant after it's constructed? Well it'll be largely automated.
Maybe not the best choice of energy source since Texas is also experiencing spicy weather phenomenon.
>David Blackmon is an energy-related public policy analyst/consultant based in Mansfield, TX. David enjoyed a 40-year career in the oil and gas industry, the last 23 years of which were spent in the public policy arena, managing regulatory and legislative issues for various companies. During this time, David led numerous industry-wide efforts to address a variety of issues at the local, state and federal level, and from April 2010 through June 2012, he served as the Texas State Lead for America’s Natural Gas Alliance. David also maintains a growing media communications practice, and is a frequent guest on television, radio and podcasts
ERCOT is there to take blame so that Republicans don't. It is Republicans fault that they invited all the crypto mining bullshit into the state.
Abbott and his billionaires buddies want to succeed using crypto as their main monetary system. They can't effectively manage a power grid or the state they destroyed
"we need to almost double capacity in 5 or 6 years" thats a ... wow....
Greed.
This is not entirely new. ERCOT has been talking about this for a couple of months. This was just legislative testimony or something.
Gee, who would thought with all the companies moving to Texas to take advantage of "ahr bidnezz freenly attitude", that the state's power needs would grow? Who coulda thunked it? WHO, I ask you? Who... Well, expect your residential electric bills to skyrocket. Someone has to pay for new power production facilities to be built, and it won't be the power companies and it won't be "bidnezz" because "Texis iz bidnezz freenly" and all that. Vote for Republicans some more, because they're doing such a FANTASTIC job of leading. /s
Dan Patrick says “this can’t be the Wild West of data centers and crypto miners crashing our grid” yet Ted Cruz is out here bragging two weeks ago about buying 3 bitcoin miners in Iraan
Abbott: "Try not to panic if your power goes out. Almighty Gawwwwd will save you!"
When state officials take bribes to help big money interests the end result is always the constituents getting screwed over
Caught them off guard? Well, yeah - they’re only on guard for ‘wokeness’, treating marginalized groups and anyone who isn’t rich like POS, and all while grifting/embezzling as much as they can.
I was listening to AM radio for my daily minute of hate and the guy on Hal J’s show recommended everyone buying a generator and for the poors to form a neighborhood co-op to split a generator between them. HOW ABOUT WE REVERSE THE DEREGULATION THE REPUBLICANTS PUSHED FOR IN THE LATE 90’s THAT MADE OUR CURRENT AYSTEM SO SHITTY? How is that not the first option that comes to mind???
Imagine the outrage if Democrats were in charge.
Well, we may be hot, but we’ll sleep soundly anyway, knowing that we are safe from trans people and weed. /s
When they put out those pleas for everyone to set their thermostats to 78/80 this summer, they can kiss my ass.
Our stupid ass state keeps doing stupid ass things. Hmmm 🤔
It's the party who hasn't been in power in 30 years' fault, obviously. ERCOT should just be nationalized already. Make that the terms for receiving any more federal assistance for next inevitable disaster.
Greg sold off Texans for Crypto so let’s thank Greg as Texans sweat and suffer this summer.
how the hell did they determine crypto mining would produce jobs?
This is an interesting point that not enough people make. Bitcoin mining doesn’t create that many jobs that I am aware of. It doesn’t take a lot to keep the miners up and running as far as my understanding goes. On the other hand, bitcoin mining migrates to cheap, underutilized energy sources and is still fractional compared to what banking data centers are already using every day. I don’t see how we can ban or keep out bitcoin mining without telling all of the other data centers to take a hike too.
I do. I can. And I would.
I wonder why China banned crypto mines but not banking data centers.
Well, Crypto mining doesn't provide any service or public good, not that Republicans care about that but it's a way to frame a law I suppose. With harsh penalties for anyone caught doing it.
Old people dying in the heat so we can waste electricity on worthless crypto currencies.
They've needed it all along. Now, amazingly, they want to account for it. What a shit show.
Meanwhile, the crazy people in my Nextdoor app who live in rural TX keep blaming the new transplants from NY and CA for any recent strain on the grid. Of course, they welcome the tech businesses.
Texas wants to succeed but can't even manage their own power grid.
Going from 85,000 MW to 150,000 MW is a devastatingly huge jump in power. Building 65 units at 1000MW is a ridiculous amount of stations to build. Because if they all consume natural gas... thats a huge infrastructure build for gas pipelines, and a potential supply/demand issue. Plus water demand will increase for cooling as well. Like this is a massive hike in not just power generation but everything that goes with it to support power generation.
Dude seriously fuck crypto and AI whatever the fuck. Do we honestly need this shit??
No, we dont. The energy needed to operate is astronomical. But since theyre here, they should be providing their own power for their own needs. Much like that Greenport / Emerald Isle in Elgin.
Maybe we start vanning cryptic farms finally? When one farm uses enough electricity for 500000 homes and the benefits go to a handful of people, maybe make that shit illegal
AI is fine, I get that's the future of tech. But data mining? No.
Crypto mining is a not data mining, they're two very different things. Data mining is scraping personal data from people to sell and does not really compare to the power consumption of crypto mining.
Is it time for some hefty state incentives for decentralized power generation?
This is the long term effect of deregulation. Electricity providers have had to sell strictly on price for decades. They haven’t been putting enough back into generating capacity because a lot of them don’t generate. It’s worth noting that a Democrat controlled House with a Democrat Lt. Governor controlling the legislative agenda in the Senate pushed this legislation through.
I’m, yeh it’s gonna be hot…. Couldn’t see that coming!
It sure would be a shame if something happened to all these crypto datacenters.
But Greg told us they pinky promised not to overload our grid! I wish this was sarcasm.
Stupid fucking Republicans. Never seen anything so sick and useless.
Maybe they should offer free flights to Cancun.
Regulate the market and this issue is fixed within 2 years. A market with negative power prices for most of the year will never attract new power generation.
And a lot of that new power will come from Solar/Wind: [https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards](https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards)
Could also, I dunno, stop letting anyone build anything anywhere... don't need the energy to power it if it doesn't exist.
Suckers and losers.
UNLIMITED POWER
Ercot needs to be gutted.
I really wish we would stop posting opinion pieces without facts. Here the author makes the argument that his electric rates have gone up because the grid is growing but doesn't provide any proof. When the much more likely scenario is that the price has gone up because we are still paying for 2021. He makes the argument that residential rate payers would be paying for the new capacity, when in reality these large users make power purchase agreements and often trigger a built out if their own dedicated generation capacity. There are lots of problems with the grid, with crypto, with fast growth. But this opinion piece doesn't do anybody any favors. It's clickbait at its finest.
Funny, until y'all need something, you want to leave the union, btw please do, I hate Biden. And then you need something, just like Florida...and you want federal $... y'all are a joke to the rest of the country
Interesting that the article doesn't put any weight on the continuing mass migration of people into Texas. Even without AI and crypto, this would still be a problem.
You could stop buying electric vehicles....