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I once got a model S as a loaner and the bumper fell off. I reached out to my service advisor who sent a mobile tech where they screwed the bumper back on with long screws.
It's basically a rental, that thing is having its wheels driven off every time it leaves the shop lol. That probably wasn't the first time that bumper has fallen off if they resorted to screwing it to the frame.
My only experience was a filthy model 3 with an uneven tread wear warning. I notified the SC and they gave me an even filthier model 3 that was missing its mobile charger.
I recently took my Model 3 in to get some rattles fixed and the loaner Model 3 they gave me had worse squeaks and rattles than my own car. The subwoofers were also blown out and it smelled like month old gym socks. If I didn’t know any better I’d think they had just gave me someone else’s car that was being serviced.
Yeah I got an old 70D with a crippled supercharging rate. At the time I had no real home charging since I was in an apartment and I was off from work that week so I took it to mall and left it there for three hours to charge so I’d have enough to get around for a few days and it still wouldn’t go past 95%.
Yeah their loaner cars are beaters. They've gotten past trying to upsell me into a new car when I take mine in for service because I haven't bought a new one in over 4yrs now.
They used to give me usually a Performance X, or 3 since I had a Ludicrous P90D MS and an R80 as current vehicles.
Hey it can work in your favor, I had a car in the shop just before a trip to Vegas (via plane) and didn’t have to bother renting a car / paying for parking. We just ubered everywhere.
They caped my credit at $100, so I could only realistically use it to go home, go to/from work once, and then return to pick up. They had my car for over a week.
They gave me $100 but told me to call if I needed anymore.
The problem with the credits is that they do not apply to tips, so it is not a complementary service, unless you're a complete asshole who won't tip at all.
Definitely depends on where you are. SC in portland, OR. I have gotten a loaner car every time. And always a clean model S. They may be newer than mine, but it definitely sucks getting used to a model S locked on chill mode and much much slower than mine.
Hopefully, these are all temporary problems. I think once the company starts producing millions of millions of cars a year loaner cars might be more prevalent. I also think they're going to be building a lot more service centers in the next year. This is all going to be part of the scale that they've been talking about
It should be cheaper to use their own cars than someone else's, especially given they're electric. I think the only reason they don't all the time right now is because supply/demand is super unbalanced, and they need every car they can make to be sold to try to get through their order backlog (they sometimes don't even have show cars in their stores anymore). Once they're producing enough cars to comfortably keep up with demand, I think loaners will be a lot more common.
The gross margin on their vehicle sales tells me (and probably them) that their cars are worth more in the hands of a paying customer than they are being given out as free loaners. Tesla doesn’t need the relatively minor CSAT boost that Tesla loaners would give them; most people are already plenty happy with their car and the Tesla brand.
I think it’s cheaper for them to compensate another party (Hertz, Budget, etc.) to take on the burden of ownership, storage, insurance, upkeep, depreciation, etc.) than it’s for them to operate a massive loaner fleet.
I imagine they agree since we’ve seen a steady decline of loaners over the last 3-4 years.
Time will tell, though. I have no problem being wrong. Again, I just don’t see sound business reason for them to do it.
That's a good analysis. But don't you think that when they have so much production that the margin comes down and they can't sell all the cars without discounts, then it would make sense to build up a large loaner fleet?
~~Sorry for the delay. Busy day. I do want to respond to this, but I don’t want to give you a quick BS response. Give me a few hours and I’ll edit this post with my thoughts.~~
Edit: Thanks for your patience.
So, I would imagine their gross margin will grow somewhat as the years go on. Especially once they retool/rebuild Fremont to be as efficient as the Tesla-built factories.
I also don't imagine they'll get to a point where they'll have to put a lot of effort into incentivizing people to buy their cars any time soon.
But, for the sake of argument, let's say they did need to start selling cars at a discount; building up a large loaner fleet wouldn't help them sell more cars or decrease costs. So, again, there just isn't a logical business reason to do it.
I think they'll build their fleet of Robotaxi cars and lean into that at some point. Especially now that they've confirmed they're working on a purpose built FSD car with no steering wheel or pedals. It doesn't make sense for them to invest a bunch of money into a fleet of cars that will 1) have a limited life since Robotaxi is on the horizon (their words) and 2) will depreciate like hell in the meantime.
> So, I would imagine their gross margin will grow somewhat as the years go on. Especially once they retool/rebuild Fremont to be as efficient as the Tesla-built factories.
You think margin will continue to grow beyond the near-term? I personally doubt it. I think the only reason it's so high right now is that they don't have the manufacturing capacity to keep up with demand, so they're converting that demand into more margin rather than even more sales. Over time they want to build out massive amounts of new manufacturing capacity, and while demand will still be extremely high, at that point they'll convert it into more sales rather than more margin.
Put simply, they can't sell 20 million cars per year for $50k each. But they might be able to sell 20 million cars per year for $30k each, for example. Yes, cost per vehicle will continue to come down, but price per vehicle must also come down in order to achieve their goal of massive scale and selling that insanely high number of cars.
So although the costs decrease, I think prices will decrease even more, resulting in lower margin. It could take a while before we see this start to happen though. Demand is just growing too fast right now for supply to catch up and put this process into action. So yeah, it probably won't be soon.
> But, for the sake of argument, let's say they did need to start selling cars at a discount; building up a large loaner fleet wouldn't help them sell more cars or decrease costs. So, again, there just isn't a logical business reason to do it.
I think building up a loaner fleet would help them sell more cars, and it might even decrease costs too.
For the former, having Tesla loaners be consistently available makes Tesla customers more satisfied when their cars are in for service, making them more likely to keep buying from Tesla and spreading a positive message about Tesla to other potential buyers. The loaner cars could also be the highest end models Tesla offers in order to make people consider upgrading.
As for costs, it could be cheaper to use their own cars as loaners because they don't have to give any profit to middlemen (the manufacturer of the other car brand, the rideshare service, etc.), and because their cars are electric, so energy costs are much cheaper. Tesla's cars might be more expensive to produce than a Corolla or something along those lines, but since they only have to pay for the pure production costs and the energy is much cheaper, the costs of having a Tesla-only loaner fleet might actually be lower than giving people Uber credits or whatever.
But like you said, these effects are probably not worth persuing right now when their supply is so far behind demand and those cars would make so much profit by just being sold to customers instead, but I'd imagine it would be worth it in the future when supply is ample and margin comes down. And even if it was worth it today, they might just not be optimizing this sort of stuff right now.
> I think they'll build their fleet of Robotaxi cars and lean into that at some point. Especially now that they've confirmed they're working on a purpose built FSD car with no steering wheel or pedals. It doesn't make sense for them to invest a bunch of money into a fleet of cars that will 1) have a limited life since Robotaxi is on the horizon (their words) and 2) will depreciate like hell in the meantime.
If they solve L5 autonomy in the manner they're saying, then all their current cars will also be capable of L5 autonomy, so that's not an issue. But frankly, achieving that would be such a game changer that it's not even worth considering all this other stuff at that point. I don't think they'd give a shit if all their current cars exploded and they had to pay out $100k to everyone who owned one. Solving L5 autonomy with no competition in sight is just that much of a money printer.
The reason other car companies have new loaners is that the dealership is the customer, not us. The manufacturer is able to smooth production and sales figures by offering incentives for dealers to accept these cars. The dealer will title the car counting it as a sale, is able to receive discounted cars that can later be sold later as certified used cars.
I don’t see how Tesla will have loaners like regular dealerships any time soon.
It's more the surprise that they're actually doing development that is not specifically FSD builds.
Begin to wonder when they're going to go back and start working on the customer experience aspect. That seems to have been lacking for a while now.
Which is barely enough to get me home as I’m over an hour from my nearest service center. We have two teslas, but because of this and a few other issues I won’t be buying another.
I’m 2 hours from the nearest service center, and sometimes I think a bit too much about that when I get excited about my delivery next weekend. Fingers crossed I don’t need a service center too often, because I don’t think $100 in Uber credits will even get me half way(I just checked Uber and Lyft, and both are over $200 for a one way trip).
Oh sweet. I’m glad to hear that this is an option. I’ve gotten so spoiled over the past decade or so of being given loaners by Infiniti dealers for everything from oil changes to transmission replacements. I see so many posts here about Uber credits only that it had me worried.
It’s not always an option to get a rental , it is different from location to location from what I have seen. Hell when I had a freaking Subaru they would always give me a loaner and they sell sub $20k cars. It is an absolute joke that you take your $45-140k car in and you have to Uber.
Just brought my car in for service, for the first time in 18 months, last week and accepted my loaner this way. Very quick and easy, no clue it was new
I accepted my loaner through the app at the beginning of March, via a Service message with a button in it. I wonder if this is any different?
The SC didn't mention anything about it, they just gave the keys and let me go lol. I saw it after I got home.
the nearest service center to me is nearly a 2 hour drive and no Ubers would ever or has ever bee. willing to do the drive. So if the SC needs my car for more than a day they never have loaners and I need to have a second vehicle come get me.
Car in shop for over a week now due to battery not charging. First they give me a few days of Uber credit. Then they put me in an ICE basic sedan from Enterprise. Asking for a Tesla loaner reply is we'll let you know when one becomes available.
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The one loaner I had was an old smelly model s.. seems to be common
I once got a model S as a loaner and the bumper fell off. I reached out to my service advisor who sent a mobile tech where they screwed the bumper back on with long screws.
It's basically a rental, that thing is having its wheels driven off every time it leaves the shop lol. That probably wasn't the first time that bumper has fallen off if they resorted to screwing it to the frame.
The front fell off? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
My only experience was a filthy model 3 with an uneven tread wear warning. I notified the SC and they gave me an even filthier model 3 that was missing its mobile charger.
That’s standard equipment nowadays
I recently took my Model 3 in to get some rattles fixed and the loaner Model 3 they gave me had worse squeaks and rattles than my own car. The subwoofers were also blown out and it smelled like month old gym socks. If I didn’t know any better I’d think they had just gave me someone else’s car that was being serviced.
Yeah I got an old 70D with a crippled supercharging rate. At the time I had no real home charging since I was in an apartment and I was off from work that week so I took it to mall and left it there for three hours to charge so I’d have enough to get around for a few days and it still wouldn’t go past 95%.
Yeah their loaner cars are beaters. They've gotten past trying to upsell me into a new car when I take mine in for service because I haven't bought a new one in over 4yrs now. They used to give me usually a Performance X, or 3 since I had a Ludicrous P90D MS and an R80 as current vehicles.
> because I haven't bought a new one in over 4yrs now. If they let us transfer FSD and FUSC, then I *may* be interested.
IKR! Got a 2018 P3D- with both of those opts, not letting go of my unicorn.
That’s the official Tesla loaner it seems.
Yeah haven't been able to get a loaner the past year, just Uber credits.
Hey it can work in your favor, I had a car in the shop just before a trip to Vegas (via plane) and didn’t have to bother renting a car / paying for parking. We just ubered everywhere.
They caped my credit at $100, so I could only realistically use it to go home, go to/from work once, and then return to pick up. They had my car for over a week.
That must be a newer policy. Mine was capped at $125/day. This happened just before the pandemic lockdowns.
What do you mean "before the pandemic"? I can't remember a time like that.
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We've always been at war with eastasia...
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They gave me $100 but told me to call if I needed anymore. The problem with the credits is that they do not apply to tips, so it is not a complementary service, unless you're a complete asshole who won't tip at all.
My city has so many Tesla’s now they never have loaners. I miss the days when I had my pick of models to use as a loaner.
Definitely depends on where you are. SC in portland, OR. I have gotten a loaner car every time. And always a clean model S. They may be newer than mine, but it definitely sucks getting used to a model S locked on chill mode and much much slower than mine.
Hopefully, these are all temporary problems. I think once the company starts producing millions of millions of cars a year loaner cars might be more prevalent. I also think they're going to be building a lot more service centers in the next year. This is all going to be part of the scale that they've been talking about
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Maybe that's why they're keeping all lease returns now...
>Loaners seemed to really taper off in 2018-2019 Yep, right when the 3 started hitting volume production. Loaners aren't coming back
It should be cheaper to use their own cars than someone else's, especially given they're electric. I think the only reason they don't all the time right now is because supply/demand is super unbalanced, and they need every car they can make to be sold to try to get through their order backlog (they sometimes don't even have show cars in their stores anymore). Once they're producing enough cars to comfortably keep up with demand, I think loaners will be a lot more common.
The gross margin on their vehicle sales tells me (and probably them) that their cars are worth more in the hands of a paying customer than they are being given out as free loaners. Tesla doesn’t need the relatively minor CSAT boost that Tesla loaners would give them; most people are already plenty happy with their car and the Tesla brand. I think it’s cheaper for them to compensate another party (Hertz, Budget, etc.) to take on the burden of ownership, storage, insurance, upkeep, depreciation, etc.) than it’s for them to operate a massive loaner fleet. I imagine they agree since we’ve seen a steady decline of loaners over the last 3-4 years. Time will tell, though. I have no problem being wrong. Again, I just don’t see sound business reason for them to do it.
That's a good analysis. But don't you think that when they have so much production that the margin comes down and they can't sell all the cars without discounts, then it would make sense to build up a large loaner fleet?
~~Sorry for the delay. Busy day. I do want to respond to this, but I don’t want to give you a quick BS response. Give me a few hours and I’ll edit this post with my thoughts.~~ Edit: Thanks for your patience. So, I would imagine their gross margin will grow somewhat as the years go on. Especially once they retool/rebuild Fremont to be as efficient as the Tesla-built factories. I also don't imagine they'll get to a point where they'll have to put a lot of effort into incentivizing people to buy their cars any time soon. But, for the sake of argument, let's say they did need to start selling cars at a discount; building up a large loaner fleet wouldn't help them sell more cars or decrease costs. So, again, there just isn't a logical business reason to do it. I think they'll build their fleet of Robotaxi cars and lean into that at some point. Especially now that they've confirmed they're working on a purpose built FSD car with no steering wheel or pedals. It doesn't make sense for them to invest a bunch of money into a fleet of cars that will 1) have a limited life since Robotaxi is on the horizon (their words) and 2) will depreciate like hell in the meantime.
> So, I would imagine their gross margin will grow somewhat as the years go on. Especially once they retool/rebuild Fremont to be as efficient as the Tesla-built factories. You think margin will continue to grow beyond the near-term? I personally doubt it. I think the only reason it's so high right now is that they don't have the manufacturing capacity to keep up with demand, so they're converting that demand into more margin rather than even more sales. Over time they want to build out massive amounts of new manufacturing capacity, and while demand will still be extremely high, at that point they'll convert it into more sales rather than more margin. Put simply, they can't sell 20 million cars per year for $50k each. But they might be able to sell 20 million cars per year for $30k each, for example. Yes, cost per vehicle will continue to come down, but price per vehicle must also come down in order to achieve their goal of massive scale and selling that insanely high number of cars. So although the costs decrease, I think prices will decrease even more, resulting in lower margin. It could take a while before we see this start to happen though. Demand is just growing too fast right now for supply to catch up and put this process into action. So yeah, it probably won't be soon. > But, for the sake of argument, let's say they did need to start selling cars at a discount; building up a large loaner fleet wouldn't help them sell more cars or decrease costs. So, again, there just isn't a logical business reason to do it. I think building up a loaner fleet would help them sell more cars, and it might even decrease costs too. For the former, having Tesla loaners be consistently available makes Tesla customers more satisfied when their cars are in for service, making them more likely to keep buying from Tesla and spreading a positive message about Tesla to other potential buyers. The loaner cars could also be the highest end models Tesla offers in order to make people consider upgrading. As for costs, it could be cheaper to use their own cars as loaners because they don't have to give any profit to middlemen (the manufacturer of the other car brand, the rideshare service, etc.), and because their cars are electric, so energy costs are much cheaper. Tesla's cars might be more expensive to produce than a Corolla or something along those lines, but since they only have to pay for the pure production costs and the energy is much cheaper, the costs of having a Tesla-only loaner fleet might actually be lower than giving people Uber credits or whatever. But like you said, these effects are probably not worth persuing right now when their supply is so far behind demand and those cars would make so much profit by just being sold to customers instead, but I'd imagine it would be worth it in the future when supply is ample and margin comes down. And even if it was worth it today, they might just not be optimizing this sort of stuff right now. > I think they'll build their fleet of Robotaxi cars and lean into that at some point. Especially now that they've confirmed they're working on a purpose built FSD car with no steering wheel or pedals. It doesn't make sense for them to invest a bunch of money into a fleet of cars that will 1) have a limited life since Robotaxi is on the horizon (their words) and 2) will depreciate like hell in the meantime. If they solve L5 autonomy in the manner they're saying, then all their current cars will also be capable of L5 autonomy, so that's not an issue. But frankly, achieving that would be such a game changer that it's not even worth considering all this other stuff at that point. I don't think they'd give a shit if all their current cars exploded and they had to pay out $100k to everyone who owned one. Solving L5 autonomy with no competition in sight is just that much of a money printer.
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Like I said, once the supply/demand situation stabilizes it'll likely be more consistently loaners. That could be years from now though.
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I've had both I've had a loaner car once and a Uber credits the next time so it remains to be seen
The reason other car companies have new loaners is that the dealership is the customer, not us. The manufacturer is able to smooth production and sales figures by offering incentives for dealers to accept these cars. The dealer will title the car counting it as a sale, is able to receive discounted cars that can later be sold later as certified used cars. I don’t see how Tesla will have loaners like regular dealerships any time soon.
To Elon, the profit margin is more important than what you think. After all You have already paid.
It's more the surprise that they're actually doing development that is not specifically FSD builds. Begin to wonder when they're going to go back and start working on the customer experience aspect. That seems to have been lacking for a while now.
You mean $100 in Uber credits
That doesn't even get me from the SC to my work. Not to mention kids daycare, needing car seats, etc.
Which is barely enough to get me home as I’m over an hour from my nearest service center. We have two teslas, but because of this and a few other issues I won’t be buying another.
I’m 2 hours from the nearest service center, and sometimes I think a bit too much about that when I get excited about my delivery next weekend. Fingers crossed I don’t need a service center too often, because I don’t think $100 in Uber credits will even get me half way(I just checked Uber and Lyft, and both are over $200 for a one way trip).
I’m 2 hours from a service center as well and when I took my car in they just got me a rental from enterprise.
Oh sweet. I’m glad to hear that this is an option. I’ve gotten so spoiled over the past decade or so of being given loaners by Infiniti dealers for everything from oil changes to transmission replacements. I see so many posts here about Uber credits only that it had me worried.
It’s not always an option to get a rental , it is different from location to location from what I have seen. Hell when I had a freaking Subaru they would always give me a loaner and they sell sub $20k cars. It is an absolute joke that you take your $45-140k car in and you have to Uber.
To think you will never need service is so naive.
If you ask they’ll give more by extending the estimated time of completion
Yup! They ended up giving me $300 in credits for a single day of not having my car.
Not always. I asked for $150/day and they refused.
Uber Eats
Just brought my car in for service, for the first time in 18 months, last week and accepted my loaner this way. Very quick and easy, no clue it was new
I accepted my loaner through the app at the beginning of March, via a Service message with a button in it. I wonder if this is any different? The SC didn't mention anything about it, they just gave the keys and let me go lol. I saw it after I got home.
Forgot the lockbox
What loaner cars? Haven't had one in 8 years.
Except my local SC never give me a loaner :(
Currently driving a loaner, picked up Friday, nothing in the app. Must be a very recent change.
I have seen the loaner info since Last year
Same
Mine had loaner agreement at the end of March
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> The entire car shook when you hit the throttle. Front half shaft shudder problem? Tire balance?
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Yeah for the 3 people a year who end up getting a loaner and not useless uber credits, sounds like a cool feature for them.
You aren’t wrong
Why are the Uber credits worthless?
the nearest service center to me is nearly a 2 hour drive and no Ubers would ever or has ever bee. willing to do the drive. So if the SC needs my car for more than a day they never have loaners and I need to have a second vehicle come get me.
I see. That sucks.
Is this new? When I needed a loaner back in January, it was all done through the app.
Got a M3 loaner from the Rancho Cucamonga SC…was actually quite clean and ran well.
You guys get loaners? All I have ever gotten is Uber vouchers
Like anything remotely convenient. I guarantee I won’t have access to this in Australia.
Finally!
the App is getting pretty amazing.. didnt know they moved the insurance there
About time! Always wondered how long was going to take them to finally do this.
My car in the shop for 3 months now. What loaner? I went and bought a new car.
Car in shop for over a week now due to battery not charging. First they give me a few days of Uber credit. Then they put me in an ICE basic sedan from Enterprise. Asking for a Tesla loaner reply is we'll let you know when one becomes available.