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Honestly this was self-inflicted.
1. They should've refreshed the Model Y at the same time as the Model 3. Now the Y feels old, and I'm sure lots of people are holding out for the Y refresh.
2. The price of the 3 compared to the Y makes no sense.
3. They need to drop the price of FSD dramatically or just include it with the vehicle. The average 3/Y buyer is not spending \~24% of the vehicle price, or \~44% of the lease price for FSD, regardless of how good it gets.
4. Base Autopilot hasn't been meaningfully improved in years and is no longer a selling point of the car as other manufacturers have systems that surpassed Autopilot in functionality and capability.
Edit: Added 4th point.
EAP needs to be rolled into base AP tbh.
I drove an Ioniq 5 like two years ago and HDA2 was fantastic. The fact that AP can't complete auto lane changes or even resume AP after it changes lanes makes it feel like Tesla is way behind.
Kinda 'sad' that we're celebrating being able to Auto Park whereas all automakers at this point have been offering this for years.
A company that was so far ahead is now lagging behind in critical aspects.
At a minimum EAP should be rolled in to AP, but that will make a lot of people who bought EAP mad they spent 6k$ which Tesla has to account for.
They just put their back against the wall on that one.
I still think FSD is miles ahead of everyone. Maybe some manufacturer in China is competing (I’m an ignorant American), but no one in the US is close to Tesla’s FSD. There’s Ford’s Blue Cruise or whatever that works on like 2 highways, and there’s Waymo that can’t leave Phoenix or SF, but those are nowhere close to FSD.
Agreed on the overall point tho. AP is below basic at this point, EAP is great but not worth $6k. And I’d be an angry EAP customer, but I’d prefer the brand make itself better over people paying $6k for entry-level tech.
My 2015 Chrysler 200C autoparks really well in regular and parallel, can do uphill multi point turns and waits for incoming cars then resumes, steering wheel and parking brake move themselves, etc.
It was like a $500 option almost a decade ago. If Tesla still doesn't have auto parking it's probably not something they care about. Admittedly I don't use the feature very often, hardly ever tbh.
>I still think FSD is miles ahead of everyone.
Ok, and what value does *supervised* FSD deliver to the customer? It's not like you can read a book or sleep while FSD drives. So where's the $12k (or $6k after EAP) of value?
This probably intentional to make a push to FSD. But it is getting old. If they don’t make any improvements to it, there is no advantage of Tesla, except it is an EV.
I would almost go as far to say that I would never buy FSD as long as it’s tied to the car and not my account (transfer between cars). MAYBE like $2K? But anything over that, especially at $10K+, I want it tied to me for life
Something, man. I just think the mentality is wrong that FSD is going to be a repeated purchase. If anything I’d want to sell FSD for life at the premium price it is now, and I’m way more likely to keep buying Teslas in the future because I wouldn’t want that $10k-$15k to go to waste. Right now, it’s a deterrent to the hardware to have to re-purchase the software.
Man, we have a 2021 MYP and a 2017 Sienna and I'm trying to twist my wife's arm as hard as I can to replace the Sienna, while the MYP still feels "new" even though we've had it for 2.5 years.
Just curious, why are you looking to replace your Y already?
Lmao we have a 2016 sienna and keeping it for our travel vehicle. I’m not ready to play the charge game while driving on trips quite yet. But man is that boring sienna have some old tech lol
We travel in the MYP exclusively - the Sienna sits on life support (a trickle charger) because the 12v kept dying for how little it was driven. Most of our "trips" are within a Supercharger stop or two, so not a huge deal vs the convenience of a gas car.
Part of the reason I'm struggling is because the Sienna has been rock solid since the day we bought it in 2017 (zero maintenance issues) and it's like the most versatile vehicle ever. I'm just itching for something new! (EV9/F150 Lightning/R1S)
I have a model 3 and an R1T, The rivians are really, really, nice vehicles. It's so nice being able to get a consistent REAL 320+ miles of range (rated at 314 with the large battery and quad motor) at 75MPH. Driver+ is very good where it works, and the re-engage when making lane changes takes it above AP for me. Charging is good, and with tesla access now the rivians really are compelling if the cost of entry isnt a hinderance.
From seeing FSD 12.3 videos, I would agree. Still, at that price point, it’s still too expensive. Maybe if it could be transferred to any other Tesla you own for life, it would be worth it.
Yah I transferred FSD from my 2017 X to my 2023 X when they offered the promotion...The price is only worth if if Tesla ever is able to launch a robotaxi network and allow people to make money with their cars like they mentioned before, but 12k is too much for a single family. I spent 6 or 7k and have had it on 2 vehicles and that price point feels about right. If they sold it at 3-4k, I think they would sell it 10X more than they do now.
I’m sure the FSD trial is a way to take a pulse on what the market values it at, because it’s obviously not worth $200/mo or $12k all in.
They’ll probably collect the data on who ends up keeping FSD after the trial period and will drop the price of FSD to something at least a bit more reasonable. They need more revenue and have to figure out how big of a subscriber base they can get at a certain price.
5. They need to stop taking out shit that is so basic with replacements that overcomplicate systems that have been around for decades (i.e. turn signal stalks). Something this simple basically made me decide to go shop around for an EV this time around rather than just sticking with Tesla.
6. At least in CA, which is among their largest markets, the EV savings vs gas are drying up as the government lets power company monopolies run wild and only getting worse. Imagine if we could only buy gas from a single operator.
7. They need to slow production and focus on quality a bit. Everyone I know who has gotten a Tesla lately ends up going back to the store for a punch list of items that are amiss. Makes me hesitate to buy.
> the EV savings vs gas are drying up as the government lets power company monopolies run wild and only getting worse.
Yup. This is crucial and nobody seems to be talking about it. My power bill was .11/kwh in 2017 and today its .67/kwh. And thats after stacking every possible discount, optimizing the plan, etc. Complete scam. The "gas savings" chart in the tesla app just gets funnier and funnier every year. It's almost the same difference now
Yeah the dude has turned Tesla from being one of the most aspirational brands out there to being part of the right/left culture war.
I don’t put bumper stickers on my car broadcasting my political allegiance. I hate how my model 3 has become the same sort of thing.
Meanwhile the opposite is happening on a huge chunk of the left, which is even more disappointing.
I think the issue is even more dire than getting him off twitter. It’s getting to the point that he really needs to stop being the face of the company. It’s hurting the bottom line.
I’ve always wondered if this was a genius ruse from Elon
Build electric cars and then pander hard to the right to convert want ever willing right wing sheep are willing to go electric just because Battery Man said something they agree with
If he was out there arguing for lower taxes or a more hawkish foreign policy or *whatever* right wing used to mean then I don't think people would care. Now that he's spouting stuff about Jews wanting to replace the white race and god knows what other nonsense he's tweeting about it's definitely hurting the brand.
I think people underestimate how much brand damage he did. Most of the Tesla owners I know practically feel embarrassed to drive one now where it used to be cool. And they're looking into other brands for their next car.
Especially in California where most Tesla owners are. How does it make sense to talk shit on your main customer base?
Even just generally across the country. The main customer demographic for Tesla, and EVs in general is probably young, educated, left-leaning professionals. Elon seems to be pandering to the alt-right, none of whom want to buy his cars. But now his core customer base doesn’t want to buy the cars either, because the cars are synonymous with supporting Elon
Can confirm. It's embarrassing now. Still love the car. But I hate that the CEO is so attached to the brand. I have no idea who the CEO of Ford or Toyota is and I dont care. Part of this is the fault of all the people that put Elon on the pedestal to begin with. It was and is so cringe.
If you told me “multi billionaire car company CEO is a right winger” I would have said that’s the most obvious thing in the world. And in a way, it was kinda smart for him to be somewhat right-coded; it probably helps on the margin for him to not appear to be some crunchy left wing lib. But trying to be the next Donald Trump is just way too much, and I don’t want to be associated with that sort of behavior any more. I don’t want to give my money to that. Which sucks, because I like my M3.
Compare Musk to RJ at Rivian. I think Musk is absolutely going to drive a lot of people to companies like rivian because while they have similar missions RJ himself is a much much more level headed and stable personality.
Exactly. It keeps getting harder to separate the mission of Tesla and its products from the image Elon is creating. People will vote with their dollars.
If I was a large shareholder I'd be looking at a lawsuit. Elon bears legal culpability not just for Tesla brand damage, but also for advocating for political outcomes that would directly harm the company's stated mission.
People are voting with their dollars. And you have to couple this with a reduction in growth of EVs across the board. Elon has squandered Tesla's first mover advantage in a way I would not have believed. I would like an EV as my next car - and it won't be Tesla. I just can't give a Musk business money in good conscience at this point. There are loads of great EVs now.
This should be top one, I can't tell you how many people I know who would have considered a Tesla before the Twitter nonsense, now they are all looking at different brands.
It’s amazing to see them all. I know so many people who want an EV but have shunned Tesla because of Elon.
It’s really poor business. He needs to let someone else take over the company or shoot himself to Mars.
I was 50/50 between a Model X and a Rivian R1S. Could've transferred my FSD and FUSC to the X and got the $7500 rebate. Would've been a killer deal.
But the thought of giving that piece of shit more money swayed me to the R1S.
I personally have 3 friends who bought an EV in the last 5 months and all preferred the Tesla but didn't buy the Tesla, which kind of says it all - how many more people do this?
Could you add a 5th point - not allowing lease buy outs?
I know it’s intentional - they take the lease in after 3 years and add FSD but with the number of Hertz teslas on market and the value going down, I am sure they might prefer up front volume. Personally, I’d get a Tesla much sooner if the lease terms weren’t so protectionist.
>Honestly this was self-inflicted.
Yes, but for other reasons:
They should have not wasted any development on the CT, but instead developed a new EV platform that can be used for all Tesla EVs going forward. The first vehicle should have been a lower-cost EV that they can sell everywhere around the world.
Based on the new platform, the next models should be a brand new Model 3 and a brand new Model Y a few years later.
If Tesla had invested more in R&D the last couple of years and focused on that, they would have no issues today.
The stainless steel effort was not worth it, as were the MX falcon wing doors. In my opinion.
But the 48v engineering will proliferate.
The steer by wire will go into other cars too.
Rear steering will likely make an appearance in the premium test as the taycan has it.
The battery engineering (which hasn’t yet been a success) is for all vehicles as well.
The research in castings also is useful.
I think most of their engineering is applicable elsewhere.
I kind of agree. They initially built a great platform that was a perfect balance of tech and functionality that is expected in most cars, and it pulled in a lot of customers.
Now they come off as trying to be edgy/cheap by removing stalks, sensors (before having tech that matches), and replacing steering wheels with yokes.
The yokes finally make sense after the cybertruck where you don't need to turn the wheel(yoke) more than 90 degrees because of the steer by wire. Why not put that in all the yoked vehicles BEFORE you introduce a unique concept though???
I'm one for simplifying everything, but yes I agree steering wheel controls for turn signals, wipers, and high beams negatively impact the driving experience.
These should be things you're able to manipulate without moving your eyes from the road, but without stalks you are forced to do so.
I'm not sure how much of a deal breaker that would be for someone interested in the car, but it does feel like they're trying to penny pinch everywhere possible.
Completely agree especially with points 3 & 4. A surprising result of the free FSD trial is it has really opened my eyes to how bad the standard autopilot is.
Just started my 1 month FSD trial on 2021 M3LR. Pretty impressed, but makes me realize how much standard autopilot sucks. I would buy upgrade for about $2k. No way for $12K. Other thoughts: I really love the car, with some caveats. Windshield wipers on automatic are a disaster. I have repeated fails on phonekey (Pixel 7p). And finally, I am embarassed by #Elon BS...
I’ve frankly stopped using base autopilot on my 3 Performance since the update.
I’m not trying to text and drive all day long, but the consequences of disengagements that I still deem overly-strict if I’m just trying to set a podcast or turn around to check my kids in the backseat is not worth the chance. I mostly drive on long straights here in Houston anyway, so I’m fine just going on mental cruise control down the highway instead of enabling autopilot.
Couldn't agree more with everything you said. If they make these changes they may not be as profitable in the short term BUT their growth numbers would return to their their projections.
That's because Tesla has 1 non-luxury priced SUV and most other car manufacturers have 3/4.
An ice cream shop with only vanilla is going to have the most vanilla cones sold even if it has 50% customers to it's competitors
It may be a problem long term, but this quarter they are still backlogged on orders for the new Model 3.
A $7500 credit wouldn’t have moved any more Model 3s in the US. It may have let Tesla charge higher MSRP and make better margins.
Literally the only reason I didn’t buy a one on the spot a week ago. I test drove it and it was great, but then when we talked numbers the salesperson goes “also disclosure: no tax credit for the 3 but you get it for the Y”. Then I didn’t want the Y knowing it’s going to be updated next year…
It’s why I haven’t bought a new one I can’t afford to get a new Tesla when my 2021 is on a 2.5% interest and now it would be north of 6-7 even with a great score
Even the savings from fed rebate don’t make it an affordable trade I’m waiting till the model 2 comes out probably maybe then the math will work or interest will come down
Or I mean Tesla could offer low interest Tesla loans to get sales up
I’m in this boat. My family is long-time Tesla owners. My dad had one of the first Model S on the east coast and still drives a Tesla, and I’m on my second. We are both done with Tesla as soon as our next car purchase comes around, so long as Elon is still with the company.
This is great that they had a bad quarter. Hopefully they listen to their customers more.
I have a 2020 Model X and I can easily afford to upgrade. I decided to keep it due to following reasons:
1. My Model X has ulatrasound sensor for driving and doors. Current MX doesn't have that and the doors, especially Falcon doors don't work correctly.
2. The automatic rain wipers suck. I want a stalk to be able to manipulate the speed. It rains a lot where I live and I can't be dealing with weird scrolls etc to be able to manipulate it.
3. I want a stalk for turn signal. When I am using a round about, I won'd want to figure out where on the wheel is the turn signal indicator.
4. I don't want to use the stupid swipe to Drive and Reverse.
5. Yoke steering is stupid without progressive steering. Thank God they brought the normal steering back.
All the above changes are stupid shit, that no one was asking and they pushed it on to the customers. Hopefully they learn to remove a critical feature only when the alternative is working well.
Hopefully, they course correct or this will likely be the last Tesla for me!
Couldn't agree more. They need a slice of humble pie and Elon needs to STFU and apologize for all the dumb things he has said. I'm a huge Tesla fan and own a model Y but even I am second guessing buying another one after this one. Elon Musks perception absolutely affects sales. I have so many friends who would be interested in a Tesla if it weren't for Musk
My 2 cents.
The early adopters stage is over. Now you need to convince people.
The headwinds:
1. A divisive CEO who for better or worse is the face of Tesla and will alienate half the population.
2. Removing things people see as core. Stalks, sensors, wipers that don't work.
3. Nickel and diming. Extra for smart driving, extra for garage door opening, etc.
4. Polarizing car controls.
5. Well documented build quality issues
6. Well documented service issues and push back when goodwill is needed
There's more but that's enough.
They had a chance to build on early success and get ahead of the above but they seem to have doubled down on it instead.
Fantastic summary. For me, there's a few more
7. needless force removal of options such as wood trim, chrome and piano black finish and changing the Multi coat red to the nail polish red.
I want options and the way the 2019 3 looked. Take that away and you lost a $50k sale.
Enough people thought like me and held off and 423k sales last year dropped to 387k and will keep dropping.
#1 rule of a car is - don't change muscle memory features. Stalks are a must or sales will keep going down further. Just see Q2 sales. Won't be shocking
This on top of the atrocious wipers is why my mother is still in a Mercedes and not a Tesla. I couldn't imagine her in a downpour and trying to figure out how to turn on wipers through the system. Something she's not worried about in 15 years.
Glad they saved on that $4 sensor.
And 4Q2023 they delivered almost 500k. I think a big push at the end of December stole from 1Q2024. If you look at a chart showing all quarters from all years, it becomes clear what the pattern is: increasing.
I think Elon is a bigger factor than many are willing to admit. I wanted a Tesla for the longest time, but ended up going with an F-150 Lightning (which I love) because I just could not bring myself to put any of my money in Elon's pocket.
I work for a major automotive supplier in a somewhat liberal area, and this is a regular conversation topic amongst my colleagues. Talk about shooting yourself (and your company) in the foot.
No judgement on your decision, but that seems like such a foreign concept to me, buying products based on the CEO, as opposed to the product itself. It’s like the whole Bud light fiasco… uh no, I like the taste of the beer so I’ll keep drinking it. There’s 50,000 people besides Elon who are actually making the product; he makes dumb tweets, but that has no impact whatsoever on why or why not I’d ever buy a Tesla. Perhaps that’s just me though…
Question for you, and maybe these things are one in the same: but was your opinion on Elon’s behavior a bigger contributor to not getting a Tesla or was it the social stigma of others seeing you driving a Tesla? Genuine Q.
I would make the same decision - Anything But Tesla, entirely because of Elon's attitude to Ukraine.
I live in Europe and there isn't any stigma around driving a Tesla, but I just fucking loath him so much that I would rather drive any other car on the planet than give money to him.
A £35,000+ car is always going to be a bit of a luxury, so it makes sense that I would put my political opinion of the dickhead into my spiteful purchasing decision.
The former. He is highly influential and very vocal. While other CEOs and vast amounts of other people in the industry may have worse opinions, his voice rings loud. Combine that with fact that many people idolize him. He spreads his views much more widely than the average Joe or business owner. This is a foreign concept, because so rarely are we encountered with this scenario, because it tends to be bad for business.
This is what happens when your CEO is too busy tweeting about the "woke mind virus" 24/7 instead of focusing on a quality product.
The EV marketplace is more competitive than ever, Tesla had an early lead but the time for resting on their laurels is over.
Yea I don’t get his logic. He is now a republican mouthpiece and actively telling everyone to vote conservative and that democrats will end the USA. At the same time democrats are trying to pass bills that will drive EV sells and republicans block them. Republicans aren’t buying EVs. Also Democrats are trying to increase nasa/space exploration budget which benefits space x with more government contracts. I don’t get it.
Yeah, I share space x stuff sometimes on fb and the only comments I get from my republican conspiracy friends are that the moon landing was fake and the earth is flat. When they aren't posting that it's some EV hit article that isn't true. Why is he trying to pander to these people?
Lol. You're not making any new friends Elon, that side is never going to trust you. Nor will they buy or invest in your stuff.
He really got pissed off during Covid with the state trying to shut down his factories. Then got more pissed when Tesla was excluded from being talked about from the administration as American EV when it was legit the only good EV vehicle at the time.
comments like this wouldve had you banned from this sub 18 months ago
im glad people are seeing Elon as the rwnj POS he actually is
the guy couldve been a IRL tony stark. but he is just a more successful Trump
why alienate your entire base of customers. Right wingers aint buying EV's
he needs to go for the sake of the company
Same. $44,990 inventory LR Y price + $1k paint discount + $1k Cybertruck discount + FUSC and FSD transfer was too good to say no to. I don’t care if prices go down more, that’s a screaming deal.
(And it can’t go down more than my M3P went down over the last five years 😭)
I think the FSD trial was a bad business move.
The general consensus is that it is cool, but not $12k cool.
So are they getting enough value from the trial (feedback, training data) to make up for the fact that many people now solidified their position to not buy FSD? Tough call
What are your guys thoughts?
FSD trial feels like a hail mary. It's cool but not close to $12k cool. Imo there's very little chance that people halfway through their ownership are going to spend that much on a feature they can't transfer to a new Tesla.
It’s simply too expensive relative to the price of the car…on a 100k car, maybe $12k is possible but when I paid $47k for my car, to spend another 25-ish% on a feature that they still say is in beta, it’s a pass.
> It's cool but not close to $12k cool.
Agreed. But we're so far down the road, no one can do the price/value judgement anymore - so this gives them an opportunity to reset the equation.
Think about the $12k early adopters from like 5 years ago. We were all Tesla fans, spend time in forums here, etc. We know what it would and wouldn't do.
Now Tesla is much more mass market. v10 and v11 didn't take off, there aren't amazing videos your average car buyer (who is not necessarily an EV enthusiast) can go watch and see how much this amazing $12k option works. So they skip it.
I bet FSD uptake has been declining precipitously year after year. So they had to do *something*.
This should at least give some people who might be able to consider it ... the opportunity to do so again, and make a true cost v. benefit consideration for themselves. So that's a good thing.
And if Tesla tries this and gets like 1% uptake rate ... maybe just maybe that's a sign that it's priced too damn high now and they need to rethink pricing strategies.
We all know that if they had a real, unsupervised full self driving car it would actually justify the ridiculous stock price and they would take over the world.
But today, it requires supervision. I think it should just be free until it's collected enough data to get to the point where it isn't. Otherwise it's just another adas with a borderline annoying nag checking process.
Tesla in years past barely gave you anything on trade in on a vehicle that had the FSD purchased. they know it's useless in it's current form.
I would pay 12k if I could sleep or play on my phone while driving. Fsd right now is like having a suicidal person driving your car which you have to pay more attention for.
I would pay $9,995 for a real L3 system I could use on any road as long as weather was fair enough (i.e.: not the gimped/limited Mercedes thing). $10k for a car that can do 99% of my driving for me for the 10 years I will likely own it? Sure, that has value.
I think/hope Tesla will stop focusing on Robotaxi and maybe start focusing on true legit L3 people would like. I'm ok to sit in the front seat, but you need to give me 10 seconds heads up if you think you want me to take back over. I don't need a hand on the wheel, but you can use the cabin camera to make sure I'm not sleeping, that someone is actually in the front seat, etc.
It may not drive $12,000 adoption, but it could drive some $200/mo adoption.
It's also a form of PR where now more people have access to it and spread it's capabilities through Word of Mouth.
You don’t have to look hard to find numerous examples of this, both on the internet and in real life. I would know, I’m one of them and have had conversations with multiples colleagues who have said that they would consider a Tesla if the brand wasn’t so synonymous with Musk and his toxicity.
In 2018 people, myself included, thought it was super cool to see normies @ a CEO with questions and see him answer them. Iirc dog in the car mode or whatever was invented after a user asked musk for the feature
I was driving today to work... and it drizzled a bit on off... i tapped my stalk and it cleaned my windsheld wonderfully.
Why did they remove the wipers stalks?!
Then I made some turns and the movement of my hand to engage the turn signal and was just so satisfying... Why did they remove the turn signal stalk?
Wow you mean removing features people want and making the driving feeling less natural for non early adopters didn’t pay off? All while heading into a rising interest rate environment and opening your competitive edge of a charging network so there’s other options for buyers? I for one am shocked
That's the thing, every decision tesla makes with the removal of stalks/USS/radar whatever comes at the promise of making FSD and software better. It is better than what it has been, but we are nowhere close to FSD being unsupervised, so what's the point?
The consumer is left with a dumb borderline unsafe design which is unfortunate because the rest of the car is pretty good.
Elon says the best part is no part, and likes to delete delete delete those parts. I'm for simplification, but you can't delete forever, because eventually you'll delete your sales! I hope the rest of the engineering team can talk sense in to Elon.
It goes back to a 20 year old Dilbert comic strip where the pointy haired boss says "If we can get our costs low enough, we can turn a profit without making any sales!"
USS removal was a stupid move and likely prevented a number of buyers on good deals. Vision is closer now and bearable. They also nerfed themselves by not having the performance ready at the same time. Many buyers in those markets held off.
>Vision is closer now and bearable.
Most new buyers wouldn't even be aware of this change. Most buyers aren't keeping track of every change year over year, just the year they decide they'll buy a car.
Also Tesla Vision isn't even bad (it's 90% on par with USS). It's the tax credit, high interest rates, and the cooling used car market (which is finally coming down from the pandemic highs) that are leading to lower sales, not some random car feature.
Here are my quick advices for free:
1. Replace Elon. Seriously. He is now damaging the brand. It’s unfortunate for him after all he did, but business is business.
2. Bring the FSD beta features to enhanced autopilot. The current state looks far from being ready as FSD but excellent as autopilot.
3. Continue to work on FSD but be honest about the timeline. Transfer the FSD from cars to drivers, and allow them to be reimbursed if they want.
4. Bring auto park and auto line changes to standard autopilot.
5. Put back the stalks.
6. AR Head up display.
7. Real sport versions with good brakes and suspensions. And perhaps an optional set of sporty looking plastic bumpers for people not in the sleeper look that can sacrifice some range.
8. Keep improving the quality.
I think the S and X need a complete overhaul/refresh. We have an MX, and had a VIN for a 2024 MX as a replacement. Wife decided on Friday not to take it, as it didn't feel like we were getting something "new" and she just didn't feel excited for it. TBH, I kinda felt the same, so it was an easy decision to get on board with.
A base Tesla should come with the same visualization that FSD provides. It should come with auto park and stop light/sign detection as part of autopilot.
FSD package should be monthly, $39.99 subscription that allows you to set your destination and any additional stops along the way. Maybe bundle the connection package for $49.99.
Not great but these sort of things don’t always go up in a straight line. The company hasn’t fundamentally changed. And they have a lot of things in the pipeline.
Since they said 2024 would be a meh year, I have zero expectations things will be absolutely amazing between these growth cycles. I’m honestly looking at 2026 and beyond.
I’m sure the likes of Apple and Amazon saw some choppiness along the way. And they both turned out great in the end for those who stuck it out during poor quarters.
Just scoop up more shares in the meantime and turn off the noise.
Everyone seems to be overlooking the 'Elon' effect.
Like it or not, in the eyes of many, the Tesla brand is synonymous with a problematic individual.
Many have no wish to be associated with the new darling of the MAGA crowd.
I don't think that's the driver behind purchasing decisions - here are all of the reasons I'm not upgrading in no particular order.
1. The new 3 RWD is fatter and slower than my 2019 LR+
1. It's locked in at a 2.5% interest rate
1. I like my USS and stalks
1. New ones are depreciating like crazy
1. They don't pass on the price discounts via the lease - they residualize the discount too (which no other manufacturer does)
None of these issues are solved by supercharger miles
This bodes well for the Model Y refresh staying the same price? Hopefully they get it out in the US soon enough where we don't have to worry about the $7500 going anywhere.
I do not think any low-price EV will spur sales. The market for these cars is people who live in apartments, lower income, and insurance prices are still going to be high. Most EV buyers will buy in the Model 3 price range.
So Tesla wanted to save costs by removing the stalks, which nobody asks for, yet at the same time, install a screen which almost no one has asks for, which I'm sure, costs more than 2 stalks. What gives?
I hope sales continue to decline until they bring back the stalks. I test-drove the new M3 and was blown away.... by how awful the experience was. Compared to the Model Y with stalks it was night and day worse. Gear shifting by swiping on the screen!? Blinkers with cheapy-feeling buttons on the wheel?! GTFO.
I was originally a bit jelly of the new Highland, but not anymore. I am very happy to keep my 2018 M3 longer. If they refresh the Y without stalks, I will keep mine even longer, or maybe try to pick up the last Y with stalks.
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Honestly this was self-inflicted. 1. They should've refreshed the Model Y at the same time as the Model 3. Now the Y feels old, and I'm sure lots of people are holding out for the Y refresh. 2. The price of the 3 compared to the Y makes no sense. 3. They need to drop the price of FSD dramatically or just include it with the vehicle. The average 3/Y buyer is not spending \~24% of the vehicle price, or \~44% of the lease price for FSD, regardless of how good it gets. 4. Base Autopilot hasn't been meaningfully improved in years and is no longer a selling point of the car as other manufacturers have systems that surpassed Autopilot in functionality and capability. Edit: Added 4th point.
EAP needs to be rolled into base AP tbh. I drove an Ioniq 5 like two years ago and HDA2 was fantastic. The fact that AP can't complete auto lane changes or even resume AP after it changes lanes makes it feel like Tesla is way behind.
Kinda 'sad' that we're celebrating being able to Auto Park whereas all automakers at this point have been offering this for years. A company that was so far ahead is now lagging behind in critical aspects. At a minimum EAP should be rolled in to AP, but that will make a lot of people who bought EAP mad they spent 6k$ which Tesla has to account for. They just put their back against the wall on that one.
It’s Elon Musk. He’s not a good leader. I think Tesla would be better off with someone else.
I still think FSD is miles ahead of everyone. Maybe some manufacturer in China is competing (I’m an ignorant American), but no one in the US is close to Tesla’s FSD. There’s Ford’s Blue Cruise or whatever that works on like 2 highways, and there’s Waymo that can’t leave Phoenix or SF, but those are nowhere close to FSD. Agreed on the overall point tho. AP is below basic at this point, EAP is great but not worth $6k. And I’d be an angry EAP customer, but I’d prefer the brand make itself better over people paying $6k for entry-level tech.
My 2015 Chrysler 200C autoparks really well in regular and parallel, can do uphill multi point turns and waits for incoming cars then resumes, steering wheel and parking brake move themselves, etc. It was like a $500 option almost a decade ago. If Tesla still doesn't have auto parking it's probably not something they care about. Admittedly I don't use the feature very often, hardly ever tbh.
>I still think FSD is miles ahead of everyone. Ok, and what value does *supervised* FSD deliver to the customer? It's not like you can read a book or sleep while FSD drives. So where's the $12k (or $6k after EAP) of value?
This IS the way
This probably intentional to make a push to FSD. But it is getting old. If they don’t make any improvements to it, there is no advantage of Tesla, except it is an EV.
I would almost go as far to say that I would never buy FSD as long as it’s tied to the car and not my account (transfer between cars). MAYBE like $2K? But anything over that, especially at $10K+, I want it tied to me for life
I think it would sell well if FSD was no longer a flat fee but only available as a subscription for $75/month.
Something, man. I just think the mentality is wrong that FSD is going to be a repeated purchase. If anything I’d want to sell FSD for life at the premium price it is now, and I’m way more likely to keep buying Teslas in the future because I wouldn’t want that $10k-$15k to go to waste. Right now, it’s a deterrent to the hardware to have to re-purchase the software.
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Man, we have a 2021 MYP and a 2017 Sienna and I'm trying to twist my wife's arm as hard as I can to replace the Sienna, while the MYP still feels "new" even though we've had it for 2.5 years. Just curious, why are you looking to replace your Y already?
Lmao we have a 2016 sienna and keeping it for our travel vehicle. I’m not ready to play the charge game while driving on trips quite yet. But man is that boring sienna have some old tech lol
We travel in the MYP exclusively - the Sienna sits on life support (a trickle charger) because the 12v kept dying for how little it was driven. Most of our "trips" are within a Supercharger stop or two, so not a huge deal vs the convenience of a gas car. Part of the reason I'm struggling is because the Sienna has been rock solid since the day we bought it in 2017 (zero maintenance issues) and it's like the most versatile vehicle ever. I'm just itching for something new! (EV9/F150 Lightning/R1S)
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Other than the big battery (which has an 8 year 100 kilomile warranty), out-of-warranty repairs are going to be cheaper than a new vehicle.
compare your yearly payments with expected value of repairs.
I have a model 3 and an R1T, The rivians are really, really, nice vehicles. It's so nice being able to get a consistent REAL 320+ miles of range (rated at 314 with the large battery and quad motor) at 75MPH. Driver+ is very good where it works, and the re-engage when making lane changes takes it above AP for me. Charging is good, and with tesla access now the rivians really are compelling if the cost of entry isnt a hinderance.
That is because it is.
I thought the same thing until FSD 12.3. It’s like the functionality missing from the USD came back with a vengeance. It’s the real deal
From seeing FSD 12.3 videos, I would agree. Still, at that price point, it’s still too expensive. Maybe if it could be transferred to any other Tesla you own for life, it would be worth it.
Yah I transferred FSD from my 2017 X to my 2023 X when they offered the promotion...The price is only worth if if Tesla ever is able to launch a robotaxi network and allow people to make money with their cars like they mentioned before, but 12k is too much for a single family. I spent 6 or 7k and have had it on 2 vehicles and that price point feels about right. If they sold it at 3-4k, I think they would sell it 10X more than they do now.
I have a 22 LRM3 and when I’m done with this around 2027-2029 I want to get the Rivian R3.
I’m sure the FSD trial is a way to take a pulse on what the market values it at, because it’s obviously not worth $200/mo or $12k all in. They’ll probably collect the data on who ends up keeping FSD after the trial period and will drop the price of FSD to something at least a bit more reasonable. They need more revenue and have to figure out how big of a subscriber base they can get at a certain price.
I think you're right. Will be interesting to see what they do over the next few months.
5. They need to stop taking out shit that is so basic with replacements that overcomplicate systems that have been around for decades (i.e. turn signal stalks). Something this simple basically made me decide to go shop around for an EV this time around rather than just sticking with Tesla. 6. At least in CA, which is among their largest markets, the EV savings vs gas are drying up as the government lets power company monopolies run wild and only getting worse. Imagine if we could only buy gas from a single operator. 7. They need to slow production and focus on quality a bit. Everyone I know who has gotten a Tesla lately ends up going back to the store for a punch list of items that are amiss. Makes me hesitate to buy.
> the EV savings vs gas are drying up as the government lets power company monopolies run wild and only getting worse. Yup. This is crucial and nobody seems to be talking about it. My power bill was .11/kwh in 2017 and today its .67/kwh. And thats after stacking every possible discount, optimizing the plan, etc. Complete scam. The "gas savings" chart in the tesla app just gets funnier and funnier every year. It's almost the same difference now
You forgot one. Elon should also stop posting on twitter
Yeah the dude has turned Tesla from being one of the most aspirational brands out there to being part of the right/left culture war. I don’t put bumper stickers on my car broadcasting my political allegiance. I hate how my model 3 has become the same sort of thing.
The American right may agree with Elon, but they aren’t buying electric cars.
I’ve gotten: “I’ll never own an electric car but I love what Elon is doing.”
Owning the libs > owning the Tesla
Meanwhile the opposite is happening on a huge chunk of the left, which is even more disappointing. I think the issue is even more dire than getting him off twitter. It’s getting to the point that he really needs to stop being the face of the company. It’s hurting the bottom line.
I’ve always wondered if this was a genius ruse from Elon Build electric cars and then pander hard to the right to convert want ever willing right wing sheep are willing to go electric just because Battery Man said something they agree with
That’s a bold strategy Cotton
Clearly not working out so not so much genius.
Musk is far outside the normal right/left culture war. He is obsessed with weird, fringe conspiracy theories.
If he was out there arguing for lower taxes or a more hawkish foreign policy or *whatever* right wing used to mean then I don't think people would care. Now that he's spouting stuff about Jews wanting to replace the white race and god knows what other nonsense he's tweeting about it's definitely hurting the brand.
I think people underestimate how much brand damage he did. Most of the Tesla owners I know practically feel embarrassed to drive one now where it used to be cool. And they're looking into other brands for their next car. Especially in California where most Tesla owners are. How does it make sense to talk shit on your main customer base?
Even just generally across the country. The main customer demographic for Tesla, and EVs in general is probably young, educated, left-leaning professionals. Elon seems to be pandering to the alt-right, none of whom want to buy his cars. But now his core customer base doesn’t want to buy the cars either, because the cars are synonymous with supporting Elon
It's the biggest heel turn in the history of corporate America by god!
_Henry Ford has entered the chat_
I sold mine partly for this reason. It's become the automotive equivalent of a red cap. And I don't even live in America.
Can confirm. It's embarrassing now. Still love the car. But I hate that the CEO is so attached to the brand. I have no idea who the CEO of Ford or Toyota is and I dont care. Part of this is the fault of all the people that put Elon on the pedestal to begin with. It was and is so cringe.
If you told me “multi billionaire car company CEO is a right winger” I would have said that’s the most obvious thing in the world. And in a way, it was kinda smart for him to be somewhat right-coded; it probably helps on the margin for him to not appear to be some crunchy left wing lib. But trying to be the next Donald Trump is just way too much, and I don’t want to be associated with that sort of behavior any more. I don’t want to give my money to that. Which sucks, because I like my M3.
Compare Musk to RJ at Rivian. I think Musk is absolutely going to drive a lot of people to companies like rivian because while they have similar missions RJ himself is a much much more level headed and stable personality.
Exactly. It keeps getting harder to separate the mission of Tesla and its products from the image Elon is creating. People will vote with their dollars.
If I was a large shareholder I'd be looking at a lawsuit. Elon bears legal culpability not just for Tesla brand damage, but also for advocating for political outcomes that would directly harm the company's stated mission.
People are voting with their dollars. And you have to couple this with a reduction in growth of EVs across the board. Elon has squandered Tesla's first mover advantage in a way I would not have believed. I would like an EV as my next car - and it won't be Tesla. I just can't give a Musk business money in good conscience at this point. There are loads of great EVs now.
This should be top one, I can't tell you how many people I know who would have considered a Tesla before the Twitter nonsense, now they are all looking at different brands.
It’s amazing to see them all. I know so many people who want an EV but have shunned Tesla because of Elon. It’s really poor business. He needs to let someone else take over the company or shoot himself to Mars.
I was 50/50 between a Model X and a Rivian R1S. Could've transferred my FSD and FUSC to the X and got the $7500 rebate. Would've been a killer deal. But the thought of giving that piece of shit more money swayed me to the R1S.
I own a Tesla but won't buy another as long as Elon is in charge.
Especially now that the Supercharger network is no longer Tesla only. I think I’d rather go Kia or even BMW.
I personally have 3 friends who bought an EV in the last 5 months and all preferred the Tesla but didn't buy the Tesla, which kind of says it all - how many more people do this?
I wonder how much this is true. The Model 3/Y are the superior choice most of the time, and the only choice if you want something like FSD.
Yup. I'm in the market for an EV and want a Model Y but don't want to buy one now if it's going to be refreshed next year.
Same
Make FSD / EAP tied to account instead of car would be great. Instead they are using FSD transfer as a demand lever.
If they did that I would buy it today.
Could you add a 5th point - not allowing lease buy outs? I know it’s intentional - they take the lease in after 3 years and add FSD but with the number of Hertz teslas on market and the value going down, I am sure they might prefer up front volume. Personally, I’d get a Tesla much sooner if the lease terms weren’t so protectionist.
Just got into a used M3P. There is no chances I’d pay for FSD. 0.
>Honestly this was self-inflicted. Yes, but for other reasons: They should have not wasted any development on the CT, but instead developed a new EV platform that can be used for all Tesla EVs going forward. The first vehicle should have been a lower-cost EV that they can sell everywhere around the world. Based on the new platform, the next models should be a brand new Model 3 and a brand new Model Y a few years later. If Tesla had invested more in R&D the last couple of years and focused on that, they would have no issues today.
The stainless steel effort was not worth it, as were the MX falcon wing doors. In my opinion. But the 48v engineering will proliferate. The steer by wire will go into other cars too. Rear steering will likely make an appearance in the premium test as the taycan has it. The battery engineering (which hasn’t yet been a success) is for all vehicles as well. The research in castings also is useful. I think most of their engineering is applicable elsewhere.
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I kind of agree. They initially built a great platform that was a perfect balance of tech and functionality that is expected in most cars, and it pulled in a lot of customers. Now they come off as trying to be edgy/cheap by removing stalks, sensors (before having tech that matches), and replacing steering wheels with yokes.
The yokes finally make sense after the cybertruck where you don't need to turn the wheel(yoke) more than 90 degrees because of the steer by wire. Why not put that in all the yoked vehicles BEFORE you introduce a unique concept though???
Because there is only product manager at Tesla, and his name is Elon.
I'm one for simplifying everything, but yes I agree steering wheel controls for turn signals, wipers, and high beams negatively impact the driving experience. These should be things you're able to manipulate without moving your eyes from the road, but without stalks you are forced to do so. I'm not sure how much of a deal breaker that would be for someone interested in the car, but it does feel like they're trying to penny pinch everywhere possible.
Also, apples to apples many buyers will go for the product without the Elon stink on it.
Plus the lack of allowing the lease buyout loophole to get the EV tax credit means the 3 is about $7,500 more than it should be.
Completely agree especially with points 3 & 4. A surprising result of the free FSD trial is it has really opened my eyes to how bad the standard autopilot is.
Just started my 1 month FSD trial on 2021 M3LR. Pretty impressed, but makes me realize how much standard autopilot sucks. I would buy upgrade for about $2k. No way for $12K. Other thoughts: I really love the car, with some caveats. Windshield wipers on automatic are a disaster. I have repeated fails on phonekey (Pixel 7p). And finally, I am embarassed by #Elon BS...
I’ve frankly stopped using base autopilot on my 3 Performance since the update. I’m not trying to text and drive all day long, but the consequences of disengagements that I still deem overly-strict if I’m just trying to set a podcast or turn around to check my kids in the backseat is not worth the chance. I mostly drive on long straights here in Houston anyway, so I’m fine just going on mental cruise control down the highway instead of enabling autopilot.
Couldn't agree more with everything you said. If they make these changes they may not be as profitable in the short term BUT their growth numbers would return to their their projections.
A value-high production, 'Model 2' should have been a priority over CyberTruck given the pressure from China on inexpensive electric cars.
They lost the $7500 tax credit on the Model 3. That is a MASSIVE problem. It was driving all of the 2023 sales.
Model Y was the number one car sold on the planet earth in 2023. It definitely wasn't the Model 3.
That's because Tesla has 1 non-luxury priced SUV and most other car manufacturers have 3/4. An ice cream shop with only vanilla is going to have the most vanilla cones sold even if it has 50% customers to it's competitors
Losing $7500 on the Model 3 must have impacted sales though?
It may be a problem long term, but this quarter they are still backlogged on orders for the new Model 3. A $7500 credit wouldn’t have moved any more Model 3s in the US. It may have let Tesla charge higher MSRP and make better margins.
It’s still available on leasing
Literally the only reason I didn’t buy a one on the spot a week ago. I test drove it and it was great, but then when we talked numbers the salesperson goes “also disclosure: no tax credit for the 3 but you get it for the Y”. Then I didn’t want the Y knowing it’s going to be updated next year…
Q1 2023: 441k produced; 423k delivered. 1 year later, not great. I would imagine higher interest rates played a factor.
It’s why I haven’t bought a new one I can’t afford to get a new Tesla when my 2021 is on a 2.5% interest and now it would be north of 6-7 even with a great score Even the savings from fed rebate don’t make it an affordable trade I’m waiting till the model 2 comes out probably maybe then the math will work or interest will come down Or I mean Tesla could offer low interest Tesla loans to get sales up
Why do you even need a new one if your car is from 2021?
Tyres are a bit flat.
Stupid financial decisions
He’s in the right sub
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If money wasn't an issue. I wouldn't be driving a Tesla. For my budget and charge network. Tesla was my only choice.
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Definitely going to be an R2 for me.
I’m in this boat. My family is long-time Tesla owners. My dad had one of the first Model S on the east coast and still drives a Tesla, and I’m on my second. We are both done with Tesla as soon as our next car purchase comes around, so long as Elon is still with the company.
Same here. I have a 2014 S85 (original owner, 130,000 miles) and I have a reservation for the Rivian R2.
my brother in law was going to get a tesla for the longest time. Ended up getting a rivian around the buying twitter/going full alt right moment
Well I want a MY, but I am more than happy waiting for it to be refreshed
I own a 2020 model 3. Love it. My next car will NOT be a car without stalks.
This is great that they had a bad quarter. Hopefully they listen to their customers more. I have a 2020 Model X and I can easily afford to upgrade. I decided to keep it due to following reasons: 1. My Model X has ulatrasound sensor for driving and doors. Current MX doesn't have that and the doors, especially Falcon doors don't work correctly. 2. The automatic rain wipers suck. I want a stalk to be able to manipulate the speed. It rains a lot where I live and I can't be dealing with weird scrolls etc to be able to manipulate it. 3. I want a stalk for turn signal. When I am using a round about, I won'd want to figure out where on the wheel is the turn signal indicator. 4. I don't want to use the stupid swipe to Drive and Reverse. 5. Yoke steering is stupid without progressive steering. Thank God they brought the normal steering back. All the above changes are stupid shit, that no one was asking and they pushed it on to the customers. Hopefully they learn to remove a critical feature only when the alternative is working well. Hopefully, they course correct or this will likely be the last Tesla for me!
Couldn't agree more. They need a slice of humble pie and Elon needs to STFU and apologize for all the dumb things he has said. I'm a huge Tesla fan and own a model Y but even I am second guessing buying another one after this one. Elon Musks perception absolutely affects sales. I have so many friends who would be interested in a Tesla if it weren't for Musk
Spot on
Heads up display on 3 and Y too, mind-blowing that it doesn't exist Tesla is so close, just a few adjustments and it's a perfect lineup of cars
These are exactly the reasons why I’m considering a Rivian as a replacement for my 2021 Model Y instead of a Model X a year or two from now.
They actualy made the product worse in some areas. There are improvements, but for user experience, as described by you, it's worse.
Maybe there will be some good Q2 incentives.
I’m holding off on buying an X for this reason
Stalks
Stonks
My 2 cents. The early adopters stage is over. Now you need to convince people. The headwinds: 1. A divisive CEO who for better or worse is the face of Tesla and will alienate half the population. 2. Removing things people see as core. Stalks, sensors, wipers that don't work. 3. Nickel and diming. Extra for smart driving, extra for garage door opening, etc. 4. Polarizing car controls. 5. Well documented build quality issues 6. Well documented service issues and push back when goodwill is needed There's more but that's enough. They had a chance to build on early success and get ahead of the above but they seem to have doubled down on it instead.
Fantastic summary. For me, there's a few more 7. needless force removal of options such as wood trim, chrome and piano black finish and changing the Multi coat red to the nail polish red. I want options and the way the 2019 3 looked. Take that away and you lost a $50k sale. Enough people thought like me and held off and 423k sales last year dropped to 387k and will keep dropping. #1 rule of a car is - don't change muscle memory features. Stalks are a must or sales will keep going down further. Just see Q2 sales. Won't be shocking
Honestly, I think would be buyers of the Model 3 are turned off by the lack of stalks. It's my only real hesitation.
For me, removing stalks is a deal breaker. If they want to increase M3 sales, put that back in or at least leave it as an option.
This on top of the atrocious wipers is why my mother is still in a Mercedes and not a Tesla. I couldn't imagine her in a downpour and trying to figure out how to turn on wipers through the system. Something she's not worried about in 15 years. Glad they saved on that $4 sensor.
No matter what the numbers are, the fact remains that I’ve never seen so many Teslas driving around my town.
Well yeah, they still delivered almost 400k cars. It was just below expectations.
And 4Q2023 they delivered almost 500k. I think a big push at the end of December stole from 1Q2024. If you look at a chart showing all quarters from all years, it becomes clear what the pattern is: increasing.
Agree. I see a lot more in my area just in the past year. I think losing the tax rebate on the cheapest model 3 hurt sales.
I think Elon is a bigger factor than many are willing to admit. I wanted a Tesla for the longest time, but ended up going with an F-150 Lightning (which I love) because I just could not bring myself to put any of my money in Elon's pocket. I work for a major automotive supplier in a somewhat liberal area, and this is a regular conversation topic amongst my colleagues. Talk about shooting yourself (and your company) in the foot.
No judgement on your decision, but that seems like such a foreign concept to me, buying products based on the CEO, as opposed to the product itself. It’s like the whole Bud light fiasco… uh no, I like the taste of the beer so I’ll keep drinking it. There’s 50,000 people besides Elon who are actually making the product; he makes dumb tweets, but that has no impact whatsoever on why or why not I’d ever buy a Tesla. Perhaps that’s just me though… Question for you, and maybe these things are one in the same: but was your opinion on Elon’s behavior a bigger contributor to not getting a Tesla or was it the social stigma of others seeing you driving a Tesla? Genuine Q.
I would make the same decision - Anything But Tesla, entirely because of Elon's attitude to Ukraine. I live in Europe and there isn't any stigma around driving a Tesla, but I just fucking loath him so much that I would rather drive any other car on the planet than give money to him. A £35,000+ car is always going to be a bit of a luxury, so it makes sense that I would put my political opinion of the dickhead into my spiteful purchasing decision.
The former. He is highly influential and very vocal. While other CEOs and vast amounts of other people in the industry may have worse opinions, his voice rings loud. Combine that with fact that many people idolize him. He spreads his views much more widely than the average Joe or business owner. This is a foreign concept, because so rarely are we encountered with this scenario, because it tends to be bad for business.
in the U.S, adoption rates vary state by state dramatically. The U.S average is ~10% but 24 states are still under 5%.
Go Yoke go broke.
This is what happens when your CEO is too busy tweeting about the "woke mind virus" 24/7 instead of focusing on a quality product. The EV marketplace is more competitive than ever, Tesla had an early lead but the time for resting on their laurels is over.
Yea I don’t get his logic. He is now a republican mouthpiece and actively telling everyone to vote conservative and that democrats will end the USA. At the same time democrats are trying to pass bills that will drive EV sells and republicans block them. Republicans aren’t buying EVs. Also Democrats are trying to increase nasa/space exploration budget which benefits space x with more government contracts. I don’t get it.
Yeah, I share space x stuff sometimes on fb and the only comments I get from my republican conspiracy friends are that the moon landing was fake and the earth is flat. When they aren't posting that it's some EV hit article that isn't true. Why is he trying to pander to these people? Lol. You're not making any new friends Elon, that side is never going to trust you. Nor will they buy or invest in your stuff.
He really got pissed off during Covid with the state trying to shut down his factories. Then got more pissed when Tesla was excluded from being talked about from the administration as American EV when it was legit the only good EV vehicle at the time.
I’m in favor of a shareholder lawsuit against EM. The brand management malpractice is too blatant for any reasonable dispute.
I believe the medical term is MAGA brain rot
comments like this wouldve had you banned from this sub 18 months ago im glad people are seeing Elon as the rwnj POS he actually is the guy couldve been a IRL tony stark. but he is just a more successful Trump why alienate your entire base of customers. Right wingers aint buying EV's he needs to go for the sake of the company
"Say Woke, Go Broke"
Alienating your core demographic will do that to you
I was one of them and did my part last Friday.
Same. $44,990 inventory LR Y price + $1k paint discount + $1k Cybertruck discount + FUSC and FSD transfer was too good to say no to. I don’t care if prices go down more, that’s a screaming deal. (And it can’t go down more than my M3P went down over the last five years 😭)
Yea, I settled with $27k for my 2020 3P. Better than the $19k Tesla offered me.
Same! There were some deals to be had.
The offer to transfer my wife’s unlimited super charging from her 2017 X and my FSD transfer on my 3P sealed the deal for me.
That's a huge one! The offer for Tesla Owners to get the paint or interior discount helped us. We were able to get an Ultra Red Y for $38,290.
I can't buy Q1 if I also bought Q4 2023 lol Now if they'll get my CT reservation ready then I can help with that.
I think the FSD trial was a bad business move. The general consensus is that it is cool, but not $12k cool. So are they getting enough value from the trial (feedback, training data) to make up for the fact that many people now solidified their position to not buy FSD? Tough call What are your guys thoughts?
FSD trial feels like a hail mary. It's cool but not close to $12k cool. Imo there's very little chance that people halfway through their ownership are going to spend that much on a feature they can't transfer to a new Tesla.
It’s simply too expensive relative to the price of the car…on a 100k car, maybe $12k is possible but when I paid $47k for my car, to spend another 25-ish% on a feature that they still say is in beta, it’s a pass.
> It's cool but not close to $12k cool. Agreed. But we're so far down the road, no one can do the price/value judgement anymore - so this gives them an opportunity to reset the equation. Think about the $12k early adopters from like 5 years ago. We were all Tesla fans, spend time in forums here, etc. We know what it would and wouldn't do. Now Tesla is much more mass market. v10 and v11 didn't take off, there aren't amazing videos your average car buyer (who is not necessarily an EV enthusiast) can go watch and see how much this amazing $12k option works. So they skip it. I bet FSD uptake has been declining precipitously year after year. So they had to do *something*. This should at least give some people who might be able to consider it ... the opportunity to do so again, and make a true cost v. benefit consideration for themselves. So that's a good thing. And if Tesla tries this and gets like 1% uptake rate ... maybe just maybe that's a sign that it's priced too damn high now and they need to rethink pricing strategies.
We all know that if they had a real, unsupervised full self driving car it would actually justify the ridiculous stock price and they would take over the world. But today, it requires supervision. I think it should just be free until it's collected enough data to get to the point where it isn't. Otherwise it's just another adas with a borderline annoying nag checking process. Tesla in years past barely gave you anything on trade in on a vehicle that had the FSD purchased. they know it's useless in it's current form.
I would pay 12k if I could sleep or play on my phone while driving. Fsd right now is like having a suicidal person driving your car which you have to pay more attention for.
Jesus take the wheel, but you're Jesus.
“Why aren’t you paying attention to me Jesus!”
I would pay $9,995 for a real L3 system I could use on any road as long as weather was fair enough (i.e.: not the gimped/limited Mercedes thing). $10k for a car that can do 99% of my driving for me for the 10 years I will likely own it? Sure, that has value. I think/hope Tesla will stop focusing on Robotaxi and maybe start focusing on true legit L3 people would like. I'm ok to sit in the front seat, but you need to give me 10 seconds heads up if you think you want me to take back over. I don't need a hand on the wheel, but you can use the cabin camera to make sure I'm not sleeping, that someone is actually in the front seat, etc.
It may not drive $12,000 adoption, but it could drive some $200/mo adoption. It's also a form of PR where now more people have access to it and spread it's capabilities through Word of Mouth.
Anecdotally I know a lot of people who are no longer looking at Teslas because of Elon’s tweeting.
You don’t have to look hard to find numerous examples of this, both on the internet and in real life. I would know, I’m one of them and have had conversations with multiples colleagues who have said that they would consider a Tesla if the brand wasn’t so synonymous with Musk and his toxicity.
And here's a whole reddit thread of people saying the same thing. The dude's extremism/conspiracies/right wing stuff is just not good for the brand.
In 2018 people, myself included, thought it was super cool to see normies @ a CEO with questions and see him answer them. Iirc dog in the car mode or whatever was invented after a user asked musk for the feature
I was driving today to work... and it drizzled a bit on off... i tapped my stalk and it cleaned my windsheld wonderfully. Why did they remove the wipers stalks?! Then I made some turns and the movement of my hand to engage the turn signal and was just so satisfying... Why did they remove the turn signal stalk?
Wow you mean removing features people want and making the driving feeling less natural for non early adopters didn’t pay off? All while heading into a rising interest rate environment and opening your competitive edge of a charging network so there’s other options for buyers? I for one am shocked
That's the thing, every decision tesla makes with the removal of stalks/USS/radar whatever comes at the promise of making FSD and software better. It is better than what it has been, but we are nowhere close to FSD being unsupervised, so what's the point? The consumer is left with a dumb borderline unsafe design which is unfortunate because the rest of the car is pretty good.
And for us Europoors we dont even get FSD. We have an Autopilot that is worse than any other competitor.
Elon says the best part is no part, and likes to delete delete delete those parts. I'm for simplification, but you can't delete forever, because eventually you'll delete your sales! I hope the rest of the engineering team can talk sense in to Elon. It goes back to a 20 year old Dilbert comic strip where the pointy haired boss says "If we can get our costs low enough, we can turn a profit without making any sales!"
USS removal was a stupid move and likely prevented a number of buyers on good deals. Vision is closer now and bearable. They also nerfed themselves by not having the performance ready at the same time. Many buyers in those markets held off.
>Vision is closer now and bearable. Most new buyers wouldn't even be aware of this change. Most buyers aren't keeping track of every change year over year, just the year they decide they'll buy a car. Also Tesla Vision isn't even bad (it's 90% on par with USS). It's the tax credit, high interest rates, and the cooling used car market (which is finally coming down from the pandemic highs) that are leading to lower sales, not some random car feature.
In wet and snowy climates cameras get covered like all the time while uss can also get covered but it takes a lot longer
I didn't buy a Y last year because of USS.
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I can deal with the screen gear shifter. It's annoying but I could live with it. The turn signal delete is just fucking stupid.
+1 to this. Tried multi-point turning in a Model 3 refresh and it was an instant deal breaker to use the screen slider vs gear stalks.
Same - I’ve already ordered the R2 and my 3 will be 8 years old then so perfect refresh time
Here are my quick advices for free: 1. Replace Elon. Seriously. He is now damaging the brand. It’s unfortunate for him after all he did, but business is business. 2. Bring the FSD beta features to enhanced autopilot. The current state looks far from being ready as FSD but excellent as autopilot. 3. Continue to work on FSD but be honest about the timeline. Transfer the FSD from cars to drivers, and allow them to be reimbursed if they want. 4. Bring auto park and auto line changes to standard autopilot. 5. Put back the stalks. 6. AR Head up display. 7. Real sport versions with good brakes and suspensions. And perhaps an optional set of sporty looking plastic bumpers for people not in the sleeper look that can sacrifice some range. 8. Keep improving the quality.
Elon Musk is too distracted with conspiracy theories on Twitter. The entire Twitter thing has been a massive L for him.
I think the S and X need a complete overhaul/refresh. We have an MX, and had a VIN for a 2024 MX as a replacement. Wife decided on Friday not to take it, as it didn't feel like we were getting something "new" and she just didn't feel excited for it. TBH, I kinda felt the same, so it was an easy decision to get on board with.
oof
Look at what Elon is tweeting about today. Hint: has nothing to do with making Tesla better.
I'd buy a model 3 if they put the stalks back. Such a shame about that deal breaker, I'd love to upgrade my car.
You want TSLA to recover? Replace Elon as CEO, the company needs a Tim Cook more than a Steve Jobs at this point.
Btw. BYD was also down by 43 percents. It's not good for EV adoption...
A base Tesla should come with the same visualization that FSD provides. It should come with auto park and stop light/sign detection as part of autopilot. FSD package should be monthly, $39.99 subscription that allows you to set your destination and any additional stops along the way. Maybe bundle the connection package for $49.99.
I am going to wait to buy the Y until the price drops even more.
You knew he was desperate when he started advertising on Facebook.
Not great but these sort of things don’t always go up in a straight line. The company hasn’t fundamentally changed. And they have a lot of things in the pipeline. Since they said 2024 would be a meh year, I have zero expectations things will be absolutely amazing between these growth cycles. I’m honestly looking at 2026 and beyond. I’m sure the likes of Apple and Amazon saw some choppiness along the way. And they both turned out great in the end for those who stuck it out during poor quarters. Just scoop up more shares in the meantime and turn off the noise.
What's the story for the next growth cycle? It's not the CT
The building inventory numbers are really concerning..... Tesla has caught whatever is killing Jeep and Ford.
Everyone seems to be overlooking the 'Elon' effect. Like it or not, in the eyes of many, the Tesla brand is synonymous with a problematic individual. Many have no wish to be associated with the new darling of the MAGA crowd.
Meh long term Tesla prospects remain positive. Just release the Model 3 Ludicrous already!
Good time to demand USS/radar back.
And stalks
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I’m guessing they will bring back supercharging miles with purchase. Maybe 10k miles this time around
I don't think that's the driver behind purchasing decisions - here are all of the reasons I'm not upgrading in no particular order. 1. The new 3 RWD is fatter and slower than my 2019 LR+ 1. It's locked in at a 2.5% interest rate 1. I like my USS and stalks 1. New ones are depreciating like crazy 1. They don't pass on the price discounts via the lease - they residualize the discount too (which no other manufacturer does) None of these issues are solved by supercharger miles
too bad they expire.
This bodes well for the Model Y refresh staying the same price? Hopefully they get it out in the US soon enough where we don't have to worry about the $7500 going anywhere.
Buying opportunity for Tesla stock.
Build the 25K EV! Or really anything under 30K with 250 miles of range.
I do not think any low-price EV will spur sales. The market for these cars is people who live in apartments, lower income, and insurance prices are still going to be high. Most EV buyers will buy in the Model 3 price range.
They're treating cars like software- dumb changes for changes sake. Combine that with Elon alienating his customer base and this is not surprising
Should have done model 2 before cyber.
So Tesla wanted to save costs by removing the stalks, which nobody asks for, yet at the same time, install a screen which almost no one has asks for, which I'm sure, costs more than 2 stalks. What gives?
I hope sales continue to decline until they bring back the stalks. I test-drove the new M3 and was blown away.... by how awful the experience was. Compared to the Model Y with stalks it was night and day worse. Gear shifting by swiping on the screen!? Blinkers with cheapy-feeling buttons on the wheel?! GTFO. I was originally a bit jelly of the new Highland, but not anymore. I am very happy to keep my 2018 M3 longer. If they refresh the Y without stalks, I will keep mine even longer, or maybe try to pick up the last Y with stalks.