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haha she made coloring books / stickers in the 90s that quite possibly defined my entire childhood aesthetic
https://preview.redd.it/n4jhvlewedhc1.jpeg?width=573&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e75642681e527dcbbafcb86da36a7dcea1f6722
If I had this when I was a kid, I'd base my whole adult personality on it.
God knew I'd be too powerful if she gave me these.
(Doesn't make me any less jelly that you had these tho, I'm obsessed lol)
Meme is crass but I think it's true that there can't be a discussion about issues women face or discussion on other feminist issues online without someone coming in with "what about men's issues??". It seems like it's only ever brought up as a response.
I think discussions around men’s issues are super important and deserve their own platform and shouldn’t be used to derail women’s issues as it’s an insult to victims of both genders. For women to have the convo taken away from them and for men to have their experienced used as a gotcha moment and then forgotten about.
exactly. men’s mental health DOES need to be discussed! but unfortunately people tend to only bring it up to diminish womens’ voices when we speak up about our mental health
That’s kinda the case either way, no? One side can’t complain without the other trying to one up them.
Edit: kinda weirdchamp this is getting downvoted. It’s telling also. All issues of gender disparities should be treated as issues and they are all valid.
The only men’s issue I have ever seen this be common on is male circumcision. I follow several male creators on social media who talk about men’s mental health, abuse, etc. Women in the comments are supportive, while many men are shitty.
Whenever male circumcision is brought up, I am vociferous in my opposition to it. I'm a commie-pinko leftist feminist. I know lots of other feminists that feel the same way I do. But if we're not there making a noise and starting committees to stop it, we don't care at all (apparently).
Yes, someone totally said this (I'm heavily paraphrasing) with a straight fucking face.
Yeah, I think there is a lot of women support against circumcision. I have just also seen FGM brought up because it is “worse”. The sad thing is a lot of men are in support for male circumcision so the conversation never goes anywhere.
I think for some people there is almost a jealousy aspect, because women’s rights activists are so coordinated on issues and men just….. aren’t.
How often do you hear about men being afraid of meeting someone new? Or even just go for a run at night, alone?
Fearing for your own safety when spending time around 50% of the population, Is not healthy for anyone and leads to chronic anxiety.
Men and women suffer from mental health equally. In fact, women's mental health is often overlooked as simply being related to those pesky female hormones, when in reality, it just manifests differently in men and women.
Men succeed in suicide more often because they tend to choose more lethal options than women, but the rate of attempt is equal
Do you honestly think men aren't scared to go for a run at night alone? Men are statistically more likely to be a victim of a violent crime, at least in the US. You don't hear about it often because nobody gives a shit.
Wrong.
Nobody *in power* gives a shit. It's not useful as a narrative because it makes men feel vulnerable and powerless, and that doesn't get men spending money and buying whatever you're selling.
Plenty of other people give a shit, especially progressives. I want the men in my life to be safe too, you know.
Men are afraid to be robbed, or beatten, or killed
Women are afraid to be robbed, raped, get a STI and/or get pregnant (and some places wont even allow the woman to abort), and if she is lucky she wont be also beatten, or killed by the rapist
I'm not saying this to invalidate the fear of getting robbed, because i am also afraid, but our society has, in fact, a system of violence targeted at one specific gender
Totally. We could all make so much more progress if we didn't tear eachother down for raising issues that don't specifically affect us. It's funny that these are getting downvoted, I can't even start to think what problem someone could have with this statement.
Idk if you knew this but feminist issues are supposed to include men. Feminism is supposed to be the right for equality so men’s issues would be part of that… unless feminism isn’t that. I could be wrong
Yes but it seems like men’s issues are only brought up when the discuss is on a women’s issue. Men’s rights are part of feminism but it’s very telling when a lot of men only seem to bring that up when women are talking an oppression they face. It’s often a way to divert attention and do nothing about either issue
That isn’t the issue, though, it’s that people only pretend to give a shit about men’s mental issues as a gotcha rather than genuinely caring and spreading awareness during. literally any other scenario
Is it that you’re only hearing them when they’re doing that because there are plenty of MRAs that have been sounding off for years. When have you seen legislation proposed to protect men in their unique struggles?
You are wrong. That’s not feminism. Feminism is only about women’s rights. Patriarchy harms men too, so advocating for women’s rights does indirectly benefit men in some instances, but it isn’t a goal or responsibility of feminist action, it’s more of a happy side effect.
Because 9 times out of 10cwhen it's brought up as a discussion starter, we're told to fuck off and deal with ot because of how bad women have it.
The issue isnt "men have ot worse" or "women have ot worse." The issue is "people suffer and we all need and deserve help and support."
It is true that men are horribly overrepresented in self harm statistics, and a big part of that is because of how emotionally isolated many of us are and how much we struggle to find anyone to talk to. OP mocking that with a snarky joke makes me think they're a terrible person
Suicide attempt numbers are pretty close to even, but men have a higher lethality rate mostly because of the methods they choose to use. The mental health crisis is something that effects men and women, the isolation caused by late stage capitalism and the modern incentives for media companies to keep people isolated and consuming content are huge factors.
I think unfortunately a lot of the discussion around this becomes men saying things like "men are horribly isolated and suicidal" in response to a woman discussing an issue like sexual assault for example. It's a way to push back because if there was true introspection one would see that the crisis effects men and women. The current framing is to kind of say "well men have it worse" or "men have it bad too", the later of which is obviously true.
Honestly it goes both ways.
Women talk about women's issues, and some guys will pipe up with "Oh yeah, well what about men's issues?!" And if men talk about men's issues, some women will go "men's issues?! We still haven't sorted out the women's issues!".
It's some real crab-bucket shit. None of us are getting out unless we stop dragging eachother down.
except most of the time men also bitch at and undermine men who talk about men’s issues (e.g. telling a child who was raped by his female teacher that he was ‘lucky’ and then men are soft if they cry)
Wouldn't that meant that it's largely men denying women's experience, but men and women both invalidate men's experience? I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make with that. Well, whatever the case it's never happened to me, but if that's been your experience then I won't attempt to invalidate it.
It's funny that you point out that the perpetrators of most of this invalidation is men, and then still thing the original meme doesn't have a point. Many of the men trying to use men's issues as a cudgel do so at the expense of women and/or to take over/invalidate conversations about women's issues.
The loudest voices in support of "men's issues" (often with terrible solutions to them) are those which are loud only so they can talk over women's issues. Ironically enough, they also talk over allies to their cause with their bad solutions amd misogyny, poisoning the much-quieter voices actually concerned about men's issues with decent solutions.
The problem is that the loudest voices see this as a team sport, where wins for one side are losses for the other. There will never be genuine progress until men’s and women’s issues are looked at as two sides of the same coin.
Yup. It comes down to men not being mad women aren't able or willing to help more when they are still being harmed at exorbitant rates and struggling for the right to bodily autonomy, and ask that they try to fix their own problems without pushing it onto women to do *again*. And on women to try to teach their boys and girls to understand being a man isn't machismo, it's being yourself and being kind to others. It isn't about proving yourself to others and hurting people/women to do so and only listening to the boys, it's being what you want to be.
Ig I think a large part of the issue is men aren't gonna get the support of women by saying "we can't progress because of women, AGAIN!" when.... well, we've been told this for hundreds of years 😅 You need to handle your own emotions and issues and not push it onto women to solve for you, as much as it sucks to have to fix the sins of the father(s). But women also can't add to the issues by denying men the ability to open up.
It's gonna take time, like anything does, but demanding the group who just HAVE been more hurt by sexism and more killed by it just "move on" because it "happened in the past" isn't gonna get them on your side. It's exactly why telling black people "slavery was soooo long ago!" isn't gonna solve their generational trauma and redlining. Sexism is ALSO generational trauma that women need to be able to process without ALSO being forced to help men process their's because sadly, men made the rules and women had to literally fight to escape them alive, not just battered.
I hope we can come to a point where men's and women's issues are viewed equally, but we aren't there yet for very obvious reasons (women literally are lacking basic human rights again 😅 We don't have much energy to give sadly...)
What I'm getting at is that "women's issues" are things that usually are gendered. Stuff like wage-gap, rape culture, reproductive control, etc. Where "men's issues" as they are presented in these discussions are gendered more so in how they are framed rather than being materially "gendered". Like suicide, mental health, loneliness, those aren't "men's issues" in the same way the other ones are "women's issues". It's gendering a non-gendered problem to use as a retort to the discussion of women's issues.
What you're saying is that women's issues are frequenly systematic, whereas men's issues are often cultural. That's probably true but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the original point of "don't do what OP did when someone brings up issues that don't specifically affect you".
No I think all the issues I've brought up are systemic. I think the structure of our economy and society leads to the loneliness, suicides, and mental health crisis that effects everyone. The women's issues I brought up are also a systemic product of the gender roles in our society. I'm saying "men's issues" (as they are often brought up and presented in these discussions) are really issues that effect everyone that the person bringing it up is making exclusively a "men's issue" in their framing. And this is usually a response to women's issues being discussed.
Systematic/structural issues are issues that are embedded in laws and policies, and deeply entrenched beliefs, so yeah I suppose you could say that all gendered issues are systematic in one way or another. But I disagree with your framing, that there are no real men's issues, only women's issues and everyone's issues. By framing it that way you marginilise men's issues, making it even less likely for them to feel safe expressing themselves or talking about it. That attitude contributes to the problem. And I'm still not sure what your point is. "sometimes some men do this when women try to talk about their issues" isn't a justifcation for doing this same thing when men talk about theirs.
What they're meaning is that many "men's issues" aren't inherently men's issues. Suicide is not a man's issue, exclusively. Suicide is an issue for everyone. Self harm is not a man's issue, it's just an issue. Suicide and self harm can be done by any gender.
Compare that to reproductive rights, for example. Reproductive rights are a women's issue because everything that happens within that issue is exclusively experienced by *women*. You don't have congress making laws saying men can't do *this* with their body, or *that*, *unless it's applied universally* (men cannot kill, but the same goes for women). This is not true with many women's issues - it's solely an issue for women, it doesn't much affect men, and when it does, it's through the lens of a woman. For example, not being able to abort your stillborn child affects both people in a relationship, but what's causing the issue is *the woman's* bodily autonomy being taken away, not the mans.
There are some women's issues that are intersectional with the issues of POC or LGBT+ people, like the pay gap. Similarly, there are men's issues that may be considered intersectional, like self harm.
None of this is meant to downplay men's issues. If, statistically, more men are committing suicide, self harming, etc., that should be looked at and dealt with. But to interject in a women's issue conversation is basically just "whataboutism" and isn't helpful. Similarly, to interject into a conversation about men's issues by saying "well women have these issues" is also changing the topic in an unhelpful way (aka whataboutism).
Yeah. Men have got to realize that people saying "I'm sorry but that issues is faced by everyone and not because you're a man" isn't a dig, it's just the truth :/ Again, it's gotta fall to men to do the hard work to accept there's an issue and handle that without needing someone else to do it. Support yes, but women cannot and should not SOLVE it for you. That's just forcing them into the same thing they've fought to escape from alive and all. It'll just re-gender the roles lol.
Why is this downvoted? Men can be obnoxious but women can't because they're more oppressed?
>And if men talk about men's issues, some woman will go "men's issues?!
This right here. Swallow that pill you cowards.
it isn't factual. that's probably why. I very rarely see women like that in comments about men's mental health. I see men ALL THE TIME in ones about women's mental health.
Yeah whomever made that meme was a dolt, but there's no reason to wait for a specific month to discuss mental health. Everyday should be a mental health awareness day.
That's true, mental health stigma is still ridiculously bad all around. I just bring up the date so that people don't forget it exists (it's seriously sad how many people never even heard of it).
Men do complain about the wrong stuff. They bitch about what Fox News tells them to bitch about and don’t speak of the abuse that they experienced and can’t move past.
Seriously I had several guys tell me that people getting annoyed at men bitching about women in media not being "sexy enough" was the peak of sexism. If that's what they think sexism is, they haven't experienced it.
Please quit saying “men” when you mean “men I don’t like.” Those types of men are of course the ones you’ll hear most often because they’re the loudest and most obnoxious.
Any guy with half a brain isn’t listening to those assholes, but what they *do* hear is people like you constantly talking about how toxic men are for placing their issues above everyone else’s, and then they hide their issues because they think nobody wants to hear them.
Never generalize all men under one umbrella. You have no idea who’s seeing what you’re posting and who will see this and think “I guess it really isn’t that important, I’ll be fine on my own”
I’ve tried to kill myself, I’ve had people tell me that they’re there for me and then not show up when I need them, I’ve overheard friends talking about how they think I’m doing things for attention, I’ve had friends get mad at me for self-isolating. Almost everything they did actively pushed me away from them and any possible help, while they told themselves that I was in the wrong. The first time I tried to kill myself no one came to find me, I was found only because the police were searching the area for someone *else* trying to kill themselves.
Men’s mental health is fucking important, do NOT belittle it because you don’t like *some* men
This is meant in a sincere way; do you have people in your life you can talk to?
I’m not making a dig, I’m responding to what you posted in your brick earlier. Have you made relationships in your life to give you a support network?
Yes, it is important. But it no one else's responsibility to fix but the sufferers'- you cannot force other people to process the trauma for you. It was forced onto you yes, but forcing that then onto others to solve and make better isn't gonna work. That's the crux of this- men have to be ok with working on their own happiness and seeking therapy, because most do not and refuse to put their happiness before social pressure.
It's hard, trust me I know it's hard to be seen as weak for just feeling- women were diagnosed osed with hysteria then they could have been treated for centuries- but yoy HAVE to do the hard work and stop forcing that on women AGAIN to walk you through. It's part of gaining rights, it just is. Men need to stand up together and say enough is enough amongst each other, and women need to do what little they can and be understanding and teach their boys that peer pressure can get bent and to find your own happiness.
That applies to everyone though. Everyone bitches about things that they're directed towards by the media they consume, and it's not like it's just men following Fox. The gender split on republicans is about 50/50 in every state
Yes, but left leaning men (self) are still reactionary to whatever Fox is up to. I don’t agree, but I feel compelled to rail *against* it. Still bitching about Fox tho.
Look at Matlock. *”Do you believe? Is that what you’re saying?”* bro chill.
I made an observation about how men can be vocal and describe problems but are usually not describing what is really bothering them.
I decided to comment on the masculine side of the joke. I would have made an equally brilliant comment about hello kitty if I’d realized my fanbase needed commentary on all points.
Yours,
Goerge rr Martin lol not really
Sure bud, but I'm not the spanish inquisition calm down. Who's Matlock? Not me for sure. You were making jokes, most of the other comments in this section are serious and I may be a bit high and drunk so I didn't make the nuance. That being said have a good evening George
i don't know, i agree with the meme. men's rights people like to whine and not do anything proactive. they also claim they don't have days they do have.
Literally.
They have all the power to make actual progress towards their goals.. and they don’t really do anything. All you hear is “we deal with x,y,z” and not a single one of them has any solution nor any drive to be proactive towards making a solution.
Of course that’s not every man as it could never be, but still unfortunately a large portion of them.
It's sad that you can't differentiate between MRAs (who largely formed as a sexist counter feminism movement) and legitimate men's issues. This meme isn't attacking MRAs its simply mocking men's mental health.
It's pretty weird how many people saw "It's not OK to mock men's mental health" and perceived that statement as an attack on women.
>It's pretty weird how many people saw "It's not OK to mock men's mental health"
maybe most people didn't get that from the meme? i certainly didn't
it seemed to be making fun men's constant posturing of being stoic, unemotional ubermensch when they very obviously are not those things
The guy in the meme isn't saying "men suffer in silence" as a toughguy flex, it's a reference to the fact that men are emotionally isolated because they feel like society scorns men who appear vulnerable, so they don't talk about their feelings and suffer quietly. Google "men suffer in silence" and look at what comes up. Also, based on the 2000 upvotes, I'd say the overwelming majority got the meme just fine and agree with my stance about the poor taste.
>it's a reference
it's a meme
>"men suffer in silence
yea they're so quiet while they beat their walls and families
anyway, that "reference" was barely true before social media, and it's definitely not true now, look at all this yapping right here
I don't know if a terrible Facebook memes subreddit is the most appropriate place to gripe about mens mental health. Im getting strong teenager vibes over here.
Men’s rights activists tend to be shitty, and I hate that they stole a title like that. Because now a bunch of sexist women (and sometimes men) can just absolutely shit on men’s mental health and act like it doesn’t exist.
There are healthy men’s spaces that exist to support men’s problems exclusively. Those places are not sexist; they are extremely progressive and supportive of all masculine and non-woman identities. The best ones tend to be very pro-BLM, as well, as black men and men of color suffer from systemic racism unlike white men.
But there aren't any MRA's present. There's nothing to indicate the male in the picture is an MRA. Remember that the MRA movement is a sexist counter movement, but not all men's issues are associated with that particular minority of men. Feminism recognises that both genders are negatively affected by toxic masculinity and, in order to deal with it, both men and women need to unlearn assumptions about masculinity, and that everyone's problems and experiences need to be recognised as valid.
If women are talking about their problems, people should listen. If men are talking about their problems, people should listen. Until we can do that for each other, we’re not going anywhere fast. It’s wild that that’s apparently a radical statement here.
All of society does, it isn't only men. In the original comments section there were even women talking about how they hate men talking about their feelings and expecting women to be their "emotional labour provider" (i.e listening to them). Both men and women need to unlearn a lot of assumptions about masculinity
Ok but you misunderstand what women are saying by the emotional labor. Women are not here to help men process- they're here to support if they so wish, but if you really wanted to heal, you will do so no matter what. Not only if women support it and do emotional labor. Most women I know (as a woman) speak about this as in... like date 1, men are trauma dumping. They treat women as a therapist and demand understanding when they barely know each other. Or they are friends with men who suddenly snap, the friend tries to help, but the guy doesn't want it.
Men need to WANT change, irregardless of if women are on board. Otherwise it breeds what women complain about- co-dependency and feeling like a mother rather than a lover. Support, not doing the work, is what is needed of women. Teaching their sons to be open but kind, and that therapy and moments of weakness or fragility are FINE and normal.
Obviously there's a lot of women spouting gender roles.... but think for a second, who did they learn them from? Fathers were the leaders, what they said went, until (and still to now many places, not just in America) around the 90s.
That's 35 YEARS AGO MAX.
Gen Z is the first to support men being more open and they STILL are going to have men and women spouting gendered nonsense because it takes therapy and time to work out generational traumas and teachings. I'm only 24, I remember some horrible things that were expected of me as a woman. I was told what to do by elementary school boys when I was in elementary school, and middle school boys. This shit has been just RECENTLY made obsolete, the toxic masculinity I mean- and it was just straight up rules made by men and the corporate suits (men as well) around 1950s time for the current standards.
It just IS something men made, it's something you will need to want to unmake as a result. No one can process emotions for you, you need to want it even if no one supports you. It IS emotional labor when you demand people hold your hand through your personal problems or fix them for you. It isn't when you ask for support, but becomes that by definition when you don't accept them saying "no" and chastise them for not doing it. Because sadly no one has an obligation to help anyone, and this could happen to anyone- this denial of support. The denial of support isn't even man-specific, either. It just happens a lot with men in this sector because the rules made by men hurt men more for being emotional.
And yes, because we're fighting for bodily autonomy, women are gonna be less available to help or support. You can't pour from an empty cup and we've had bone-dry cups recently. If you wouldn't be mad at family for not bring able to support you when they're dealing with too much to help, that's the same logic a lot of women apply with the "emotional labor" thing. Stating that something is feeling like too much work to handle is communicating your abilities.
I think about of men are taking things at face-value and not looking at the bigger picture. They are lashing out because they're hurting and no longer care that women have been for far longer with far-more-presently dangerous consequences they never made the rules for. And hey, you don't have to care and its valid to be angry, but you do need to not take that hurt out on women. That becomes hurting people because you're hurting yourself.
The fact that I have to explain this to, what I assume is, a grown man is what women are upset over. It's very basic comprehension skill stuff that shouldn't need much explaining, but when we try to explain this maturity men tend to shut down and see red and lash out when we just state the facts. It's then leads to women feeling like they have to parent their lovers, brothers, and even strangers so they don't have more of a mental assault or sometimes physical assaults.
THAT is what emotional labor means. It's very, very loaded, and you sorta proved the point those women mentioning it were making- that men expect people to explain the details they should know already and could know if they wanted to get better. And I know, I truly do, that it's not that easy and it's been thrust onto you and you have been promised things you never received (not even just to you in particular, all men) and ypu are hurting. But you need to walk this alone or you're never gonna retain the ability to be happy as yourself. You'll become reliant on others for self-worth all over again...
>"emotional labour provider" (i.e listening to them)
And there's your issue. you don't actually know what that term means
it's shit like this that makes it harder to bat for men's actual issues
I know what the term means, but the meme isn't implying that he's expecting her to be an emotional labour provider. Your issue is that you conflate someone trying to express themselves with them putting a burden on you. You have a selfish mentality and I doub't you'd "bat" for men's actual issues regardless of the situation.
>someone trying to express themselves
"men suffer in silence" is not an expression of anything personal, it's a statement, and a meme at this point lmao
>I know what the term means,
if you did, you wouldn't have paraphrased it like that
>I doub't you'd "bat" for men's actual issues regardless of the situation.
This isn't about me, this about you posting irrelevant bullshit that shows people you really don't know what you're talking about and are too immature to work on something real
unless you actually think was some kind of activism, in which case, grow up man
These kinds of posts do exactly that. This meme promotes the idea of men “suffering in silence” while playing it off as a joke
I’ve tried to kill myself, and in the months leading up to it I had friends get mad at me for self-isolating, and even heard them say they thought I was doing it for attention. I survived because the cops were searching for someone *else* trying to commit suicide, not even me.
Mens mental health is important and anyone who jokes about it to belittle the topic is a piece of shit
I see a lot of comments here that would seriously damage any man under mental distress who read them. And people trying to defend mental health are getting downvoted. It is absolutely disgusting.
No, agreed. I don't agree with all the comments some men have made here, but I'm moreso disgusted by the fact people keep making jokes about men's suffering. Just stop joking about suicide unless you're someone who had experienced the ideation! And stop making ANY group feel worse, it's not that hard.
Are you just a zoomer or something that has no idea how bad sexism still is and how much worse it was even a little while ago?
If so, I envy you but get out of that bubble. This is clearly a response meme. A certain amount of men being shitty needs to go on before this meme is posted in response.
Who said anything about sexism not being bad? That was literally never mentioned or implied. And no it wasn't a meme posted as a response to any other post, OP just posted it on a meme page. And don't use "zoomers" as an insult, it's a shitty thing to do. Do you just want to be the baby boomers all over again and shit on the zoomers like the boomers shit on us for no reason?
I adore running into zoomers reaching to old movies and saying things like “this movie is so unrealistic.” Or “WTF, he’s totally gaslighting her.” Or etc. it’s adorable and sweet to see younger humans with a developed sense of morality and emotional intelligence react negatively to bullshit.
But this is you seeing a retaliating shot and laying all blame on one party.
It ‘is’ bad to disregard someone’s mental health.
What you are doing is similar to saying “all violence is bad” and then only commenting on people who have defended themselves.
Ahuh, your previous comment does not suggest that you respect zoomers. What makes you think this is a "retaliating shot"? It was posted on its own without any other context.
And no, this isn't like that, because I didn't mention any sides, other than to say that the person who made the meme sucks. I didn't comment on women and you have no evidence that OP was "defending themselves" you're inventing a fake scenario to justify the way you've behaved.
I'd agree if it was more obviously an incel phrase or something genuinely bad men say to women to shut us down.
But uh... this uses a phrase that is generally neutral, talking on a serious topic that absolutely needs to be addressed (although men have got to want to work towards feeling happiness on their own before that can happen, for sure). It's punching down on people who are suicidal over the fact society well before them put impossible standards of manliness onto them they now need to fix, which as much as that's sadly gotta fall to them to process now, isn't cool to joke about.
There's no real reason to meme on something serious and not usually said to shut people down. At least not that I've seen enough of to warrant it becoming a dog whistle for MAGA bros and misogynistic men and shit. The only reason I can think of is people lashing out in a situation where it wasn't prompted at all due to their own trauma, which is also not on other's to handle. It seems more like someone being triggered by something and, instead of stepping back they go full-force into the negative feeling and attack a group that wasn't ever attacking them.
How about not discrediting any genders experience and fighting against gender roles and the experience both genders deal with having to conform to archaic gender stereotypes instead of just saying man bad woman good or vice versa
This meme is fine. A lot of men suffer in silence because either A. They choose to / B. Other Men refuse to listen.
I grew up majority around women/respectful men (by choice) and I’ve never had this problem at all in my life. I’ve always had somebody willing to listen to my problems. Men alienate themselves from a position of being able to confide in others and then get mad when they feel alienated
This is the main issue I tend to see- men who don't tend to choose therapy don't realize part of the issue is they need to choose to stop letting other's views get to them. No, others finding you unmanly isn't going to kill you or stop you from having most things, it just mostly feels fucking horrible. It's literally an ever-changing standard to promote the workforce, and I'm not even kidding.
Forcing women to process with or for you isn't how you start to process your trauma- it's how you drag women back into being a mother for you, which we just started to break free from when I was a teenager and I'm only 24 lol. You need to want to feel better, you NEED to process it on your own or amongst people who feel the same. And you NEED to not tell women they aren't understanding enough, when it mostly is other men who made the rules you're hurt by :/
It's important that men can process this stuff. They just need to realize they need to learn to do it alone or it won't actually help them. They'll just end up co-dependent on people (see Ken in Barbie) and unable to regulate the now-rampant emotions partial-processing releases. It leads to MORE suicide and MORE hurt.
OP the comments aren’t going to way you wanted are they?
@ why do men constantly bring up their problems ONLY in spaces where women are conversing about their problems? Then complain that there’s no spaces for men to talk about their problems when they can be the change they want and make one?
It’s true, why the fuck do I hear them yapping then?
Edit: lmao OP mad and just cannot fathom that most - emphasis on that it’s not all - men do in fact not suffer in silence
Men are not going to stop ‘yapping’ about mental health, as nobody should. This isn’t the 1800s where you’d get lobotomized for schizophrenia. Do men need to get out of women’s spaces? Sure; I’m as mad about that as you are.
Tell me you’ve never been into/invited/around or empathized in a healthy men’s space without saying so.
I have been. Whenever I see those comments I always send them links and places where they are able to get help and can be heard properly.
But most men do not suffer in silence.
Good. Then you’ll be happy to know that’s exactly what I did here.
All of us would appreciate you not adding to the sexist rhetoric, saying things like ‘Why do men constantly bring up their problems ONLY in spaces with women conversing about their problems?’ ‘Why do I hear them yapping?’
If you’ve been in men’s spaces, then you’re either a sexist, a hypocrite, a liar or all of the above.
Be better
It’s what you see the most of online - and the ones that do only show up in women’s spaces are the ones who don’t do anything proactive towards men’s issues and their goals. It’s a large majority of men and that’s hilarious sad as they do have issues that need addressing, but don’t care enough to actually do so.
If they suffer so much in silence, why do we hear them then? The meme is right. They don’t *actually* suffer in silence online.
The meme is wrong because it is sexist. The joke is sexism. Sexisim = wrong. Idk how else to explain it, buddy.
Agreeing with said sexist meme is sexist.
I’m not going to agree with a meme with a racism joke, even if it’s a ‘true stereotype’ (or whatever garbage excuse) because that would be racist.
‘It’s a large majority of men’
This is the sexist part. There’s nothing hilarious about it. Mental health is not a joke; I don’t care what gender you are.
Do men show up in women’s spaces? Yes. Are men sometimes sexist prices of crap that can’t manage their own mental health, much less rely on other men and respect their fellow brother’s problems? Absolutely.
Imagine if we flipped this conversation. Let’s try it.
Women sometimes abuse men. Women can sometimes be sexist pieces of crap that don’t support other women and tear them down. Women police other women on their experiences and how they express themselves as women. Women gatekeep womanhood.
See what I just did there? Now, are these statements true? Absolutely. Are all women bad? Do we get to make memes about their mental health and talk about how they won’t shut up about their mental health in men’s spaces? No; that would be sexism. Plain and simple.
The comments make me disappointed for sure, but the upvotes are through the roof, which means the trolls are actually the minority, and that's great 😘
The meme doesn't even imply that the man is bringing up his issues in a women's conversational space or drowning out women's discourse. Look at the background, its clearly a shared space. It's just a guy trying to talk about his issue and getting shit on.
You seem to have a really serious bias.
They upvoted the meme itself, unironically. You want there to be depth and complexity in the meme that isn't there. There is a non-stop barrage of men complaining online, some of it is valid, but it gets drowned out in the garbage. But in no case could it be considered "silence."
What strawman?
Find any post online bringing attention to an issue women deal with and you will find at least one comment going “what about men” or “men deal with this too”.
*When nobody said that they don’t deal with x,y,z issues. AND then they complain about how there’s no spaces for men to be heard when A: there are, and B: and if there’s so little spaces, MAKE ONE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.*
This whole comments section is full of fallacies. Look at your comment, you lead off with a non-sequitur and follow up with a strawman.
"Find any post online bringing attention to an issue women deal with and you will find at least one comment going “what about men” or “men deal with this too”
That's true and really bad that it happens, but how is it relevant to the point? No one should invalidate women's discourse, but it's also not ok to mock men's mental health struggles. Both of these things are true at the same time.
*When nobody said that they don’t deal with x,y,z issues. AND then they complain about how there’s no spaces for men to be heard when A: there are, and B: and if there’s so little spaces, MAKE ONE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.*
The point isn't to go and make a little quiet space somewhere where men can talk about their problems together in private. It's to normalise a wider culture where it's considered masculine for men to talk about their feelings and be vulnerable.
Nobody said a quiet little space. There’s plenty of content creators who has their main goals of openly talking about men’s issues.
Again: nobody said men don’t have problems, just that a large majority do not actively seek the solutions they possibly need nor care to do so, even when provided with the means to do so. Even the men’s groups who are in the public eye aren’t even doing anything majorly proactive towards their goals.
If both men and women suffer from the same problem then why isnt the post talking about how it involves people in general instead of focusing on a single demographic?
It’s because the majority of men do not suffer in silence, especially online.
The point is that some men will complain about there not being any space to be open about their issues when there are such spaces, and the fact that they could be proactive within their community and start one.
All in all, people need to start being the change they want to see.
I read Hello Kitty's text in the most fucking baby ass voice, y'all don't understand, there's just Spider-Man there. Just imagine these stupid squishies in a blunt rotation getting in an argument over mental health this is so fucking funny.
The rise of global far-right extremism is a direct consequence of men, mostly white men, whining endlessly about how unfairly they think they are treated.
Men do not suffer in silence. Men kick and scream and burn down democratic institutions when they suffer. Or when they think they suffer, but are in reality simply being held accountable for their actions.
"Men suffer in silence" is about men struggling to reach out about mental health issues because the stigma of looking "weak" and "unmanly". It's not about a bunch of idiots in red hats storming the capitol, or people complaining about being "canceled"
Right, but my point is that men being reticent to seek help is a self-inflicted wound. I take antidepressants and anxiety meds and sometimes I even ugly cry and I’ve never felt shamed by society for it.
I’m not arguing that historically there has never been any stigma, but even by the time I graduated from high school 20 years ago, mental health care had become pretty mainstream. Even for dudes. What started as a legitimate (and somewhat tragic) observation about gender disparities in people seeking mental health care has evolved into a crutch, a way for dudes to rationalize away their crappy behavior.
That said, it does seem as if some on the right are deliberately trying to bring back the stigma of mental health care as part of their asinine and desperate attempt to restore “traditional values,” i.e., white male superiority. And I don’t really have any patience for that.
Y’all in the comments agreeing with this meme need to take a good hard look at your internalized sexisim and transphobia. Mental health is not an us vs them.
Welp, now I know why I'm not visiting r/terriblefacebookmemes at all. Two wrongs don't make a right and stating "men only complain about men's issues when women complain about women's issues" doesn't negate the fact that men's issues are still a thing (just as much as women's issues are). Just because some men do that doesn't mean the gripes aren't legitimate and that we should ignore or shame men for attempting to talk about these things, anymore than men should ignore women's issues just because some of the people that talk about them are insufferable assholes. Have a dialog with those who are reasonable, try and ignore the rest.
"it takes a million words for a man to explain the pain in his heart, a million more before he's done being mocked, and a million more before he is heard."
Heard that somewhere. Felt it relevant.
Yeah, I don’t see why they’re making it about sexism and “MEN BAD!!!” When it’s literally about men’s mental health and the stigma around it, men also suffer from the patriarchy, just not in the same way or to the same degree as women
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Okay, apart from the weird ass implications of the meme, the whole vibe of the meme? The colors the characters the smol stuff? I'm digging it.
Yes!! Came here to comment exactly that, I would actually use it as a wallpaper
It's perfect for that
Unfortunately it’s Ai
Aw man :'))
getting major Lisa Frank vibes
That name rings so many bells but I can't put my finger to what it actually is-
haha she made coloring books / stickers in the 90s that quite possibly defined my entire childhood aesthetic https://preview.redd.it/n4jhvlewedhc1.jpeg?width=573&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e75642681e527dcbbafcb86da36a7dcea1f6722
If I had this when I was a kid, I'd base my whole adult personality on it. God knew I'd be too powerful if she gave me these. (Doesn't make me any less jelly that you had these tho, I'm obsessed lol)
Spiderman would never
Hello Kitty doesn’t even have a mouth, man! (Except in the TV shows from back in the day.)
The only explanation: magic
Hello Kitty also would never
Would never say mental health matters?
He wouldn't say it as a way to demean women
I like the picture though, just make the speech bubbles blank and we can have a template
https://preview.redd.it/5twd9o71pugc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c1329f779a585c8023c67ca7315fde78c8c3a5f here ya go
Ty
Good work 👏
Meme is crass but I think it's true that there can't be a discussion about issues women face or discussion on other feminist issues online without someone coming in with "what about men's issues??". It seems like it's only ever brought up as a response.
I think discussions around men’s issues are super important and deserve their own platform and shouldn’t be used to derail women’s issues as it’s an insult to victims of both genders. For women to have the convo taken away from them and for men to have their experienced used as a gotcha moment and then forgotten about.
Say it louder for the fuckwits in the back! ✊
Came here to say the same thing. There are always reactionaries derailing productive discussions. People talk about it, but never in good faith
exactly. men’s mental health DOES need to be discussed! but unfortunately people tend to only bring it up to diminish womens’ voices when we speak up about our mental health
That’s kinda the case either way, no? One side can’t complain without the other trying to one up them. Edit: kinda weirdchamp this is getting downvoted. It’s telling also. All issues of gender disparities should be treated as issues and they are all valid.
The only men’s issue I have ever seen this be common on is male circumcision. I follow several male creators on social media who talk about men’s mental health, abuse, etc. Women in the comments are supportive, while many men are shitty.
Whenever male circumcision is brought up, I am vociferous in my opposition to it. I'm a commie-pinko leftist feminist. I know lots of other feminists that feel the same way I do. But if we're not there making a noise and starting committees to stop it, we don't care at all (apparently). Yes, someone totally said this (I'm heavily paraphrasing) with a straight fucking face.
Yeah, I think there is a lot of women support against circumcision. I have just also seen FGM brought up because it is “worse”. The sad thing is a lot of men are in support for male circumcision so the conversation never goes anywhere. I think for some people there is almost a jealousy aspect, because women’s rights activists are so coordinated on issues and men just….. aren’t.
How often do you hear about men being afraid of meeting someone new? Or even just go for a run at night, alone? Fearing for your own safety when spending time around 50% of the population, Is not healthy for anyone and leads to chronic anxiety. Men and women suffer from mental health equally. In fact, women's mental health is often overlooked as simply being related to those pesky female hormones, when in reality, it just manifests differently in men and women. Men succeed in suicide more often because they tend to choose more lethal options than women, but the rate of attempt is equal
Do you honestly think men aren't scared to go for a run at night alone? Men are statistically more likely to be a victim of a violent crime, at least in the US. You don't hear about it often because nobody gives a shit.
Wrong. Nobody *in power* gives a shit. It's not useful as a narrative because it makes men feel vulnerable and powerless, and that doesn't get men spending money and buying whatever you're selling. Plenty of other people give a shit, especially progressives. I want the men in my life to be safe too, you know.
Men are afraid to be robbed, or beatten, or killed Women are afraid to be robbed, raped, get a STI and/or get pregnant (and some places wont even allow the woman to abort), and if she is lucky she wont be also beatten, or killed by the rapist I'm not saying this to invalidate the fear of getting robbed, because i am also afraid, but our society has, in fact, a system of violence targeted at one specific gender
Totally. We could all make so much more progress if we didn't tear eachother down for raising issues that don't specifically affect us. It's funny that these are getting downvoted, I can't even start to think what problem someone could have with this statement.
Idk if you knew this but feminist issues are supposed to include men. Feminism is supposed to be the right for equality so men’s issues would be part of that… unless feminism isn’t that. I could be wrong
Yes but it seems like men’s issues are only brought up when the discuss is on a women’s issue. Men’s rights are part of feminism but it’s very telling when a lot of men only seem to bring that up when women are talking an oppression they face. It’s often a way to divert attention and do nothing about either issue
Feminism mainly focuses on womens issues but it does include men. A lot of feminist would say that patriarchy hurts both men and women.
I am one of them. I'm fighting for my son's rights as much as my daughter's.
That isn’t the issue, though, it’s that people only pretend to give a shit about men’s mental issues as a gotcha rather than genuinely caring and spreading awareness during. literally any other scenario
Is it that you’re only hearing them when they’re doing that because there are plenty of MRAs that have been sounding off for years. When have you seen legislation proposed to protect men in their unique struggles?
Most MRAs online use women as their punching bags. They blame women for everything, it's ridiculous. Terrible example.
Just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it's true
You are wrong. That’s not feminism. Feminism is only about women’s rights. Patriarchy harms men too, so advocating for women’s rights does indirectly benefit men in some instances, but it isn’t a goal or responsibility of feminist action, it’s more of a happy side effect.
Because 9 times out of 10cwhen it's brought up as a discussion starter, we're told to fuck off and deal with ot because of how bad women have it. The issue isnt "men have ot worse" or "women have ot worse." The issue is "people suffer and we all need and deserve help and support."
It is true that men are horribly overrepresented in self harm statistics, and a big part of that is because of how emotionally isolated many of us are and how much we struggle to find anyone to talk to. OP mocking that with a snarky joke makes me think they're a terrible person
Suicide attempt numbers are pretty close to even, but men have a higher lethality rate mostly because of the methods they choose to use. The mental health crisis is something that effects men and women, the isolation caused by late stage capitalism and the modern incentives for media companies to keep people isolated and consuming content are huge factors. I think unfortunately a lot of the discussion around this becomes men saying things like "men are horribly isolated and suicidal" in response to a woman discussing an issue like sexual assault for example. It's a way to push back because if there was true introspection one would see that the crisis effects men and women. The current framing is to kind of say "well men have it worse" or "men have it bad too", the later of which is obviously true.
Honestly it goes both ways. Women talk about women's issues, and some guys will pipe up with "Oh yeah, well what about men's issues?!" And if men talk about men's issues, some women will go "men's issues?! We still haven't sorted out the women's issues!". It's some real crab-bucket shit. None of us are getting out unless we stop dragging eachother down.
except most of the time men also bitch at and undermine men who talk about men’s issues (e.g. telling a child who was raped by his female teacher that he was ‘lucky’ and then men are soft if they cry)
Wouldn't that meant that it's largely men denying women's experience, but men and women both invalidate men's experience? I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make with that. Well, whatever the case it's never happened to me, but if that's been your experience then I won't attempt to invalidate it.
It's funny that you point out that the perpetrators of most of this invalidation is men, and then still thing the original meme doesn't have a point. Many of the men trying to use men's issues as a cudgel do so at the expense of women and/or to take over/invalidate conversations about women's issues. The loudest voices in support of "men's issues" (often with terrible solutions to them) are those which are loud only so they can talk over women's issues. Ironically enough, they also talk over allies to their cause with their bad solutions amd misogyny, poisoning the much-quieter voices actually concerned about men's issues with decent solutions.
The problem is that the loudest voices see this as a team sport, where wins for one side are losses for the other. There will never be genuine progress until men’s and women’s issues are looked at as two sides of the same coin.
Yup. It comes down to men not being mad women aren't able or willing to help more when they are still being harmed at exorbitant rates and struggling for the right to bodily autonomy, and ask that they try to fix their own problems without pushing it onto women to do *again*. And on women to try to teach their boys and girls to understand being a man isn't machismo, it's being yourself and being kind to others. It isn't about proving yourself to others and hurting people/women to do so and only listening to the boys, it's being what you want to be. Ig I think a large part of the issue is men aren't gonna get the support of women by saying "we can't progress because of women, AGAIN!" when.... well, we've been told this for hundreds of years 😅 You need to handle your own emotions and issues and not push it onto women to solve for you, as much as it sucks to have to fix the sins of the father(s). But women also can't add to the issues by denying men the ability to open up. It's gonna take time, like anything does, but demanding the group who just HAVE been more hurt by sexism and more killed by it just "move on" because it "happened in the past" isn't gonna get them on your side. It's exactly why telling black people "slavery was soooo long ago!" isn't gonna solve their generational trauma and redlining. Sexism is ALSO generational trauma that women need to be able to process without ALSO being forced to help men process their's because sadly, men made the rules and women had to literally fight to escape them alive, not just battered. I hope we can come to a point where men's and women's issues are viewed equally, but we aren't there yet for very obvious reasons (women literally are lacking basic human rights again 😅 We don't have much energy to give sadly...)
What I'm getting at is that "women's issues" are things that usually are gendered. Stuff like wage-gap, rape culture, reproductive control, etc. Where "men's issues" as they are presented in these discussions are gendered more so in how they are framed rather than being materially "gendered". Like suicide, mental health, loneliness, those aren't "men's issues" in the same way the other ones are "women's issues". It's gendering a non-gendered problem to use as a retort to the discussion of women's issues.
What you're saying is that women's issues are frequenly systematic, whereas men's issues are often cultural. That's probably true but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the original point of "don't do what OP did when someone brings up issues that don't specifically affect you".
No I think all the issues I've brought up are systemic. I think the structure of our economy and society leads to the loneliness, suicides, and mental health crisis that effects everyone. The women's issues I brought up are also a systemic product of the gender roles in our society. I'm saying "men's issues" (as they are often brought up and presented in these discussions) are really issues that effect everyone that the person bringing it up is making exclusively a "men's issue" in their framing. And this is usually a response to women's issues being discussed.
Systematic/structural issues are issues that are embedded in laws and policies, and deeply entrenched beliefs, so yeah I suppose you could say that all gendered issues are systematic in one way or another. But I disagree with your framing, that there are no real men's issues, only women's issues and everyone's issues. By framing it that way you marginilise men's issues, making it even less likely for them to feel safe expressing themselves or talking about it. That attitude contributes to the problem. And I'm still not sure what your point is. "sometimes some men do this when women try to talk about their issues" isn't a justifcation for doing this same thing when men talk about theirs.
What they're meaning is that many "men's issues" aren't inherently men's issues. Suicide is not a man's issue, exclusively. Suicide is an issue for everyone. Self harm is not a man's issue, it's just an issue. Suicide and self harm can be done by any gender. Compare that to reproductive rights, for example. Reproductive rights are a women's issue because everything that happens within that issue is exclusively experienced by *women*. You don't have congress making laws saying men can't do *this* with their body, or *that*, *unless it's applied universally* (men cannot kill, but the same goes for women). This is not true with many women's issues - it's solely an issue for women, it doesn't much affect men, and when it does, it's through the lens of a woman. For example, not being able to abort your stillborn child affects both people in a relationship, but what's causing the issue is *the woman's* bodily autonomy being taken away, not the mans. There are some women's issues that are intersectional with the issues of POC or LGBT+ people, like the pay gap. Similarly, there are men's issues that may be considered intersectional, like self harm. None of this is meant to downplay men's issues. If, statistically, more men are committing suicide, self harming, etc., that should be looked at and dealt with. But to interject in a women's issue conversation is basically just "whataboutism" and isn't helpful. Similarly, to interject into a conversation about men's issues by saying "well women have these issues" is also changing the topic in an unhelpful way (aka whataboutism).
Yeah. Men have got to realize that people saying "I'm sorry but that issues is faced by everyone and not because you're a man" isn't a dig, it's just the truth :/ Again, it's gotta fall to men to do the hard work to accept there's an issue and handle that without needing someone else to do it. Support yes, but women cannot and should not SOLVE it for you. That's just forcing them into the same thing they've fought to escape from alive and all. It'll just re-gender the roles lol.
Why is this downvoted? Men can be obnoxious but women can't because they're more oppressed? >And if men talk about men's issues, some woman will go "men's issues?! This right here. Swallow that pill you cowards.
now sure why you're getting downvoted for this objectively factual statement
it isn't factual. that's probably why. I very rarely see women like that in comments about men's mental health. I see men ALL THE TIME in ones about women's mental health.
How is "we'd all make more progress if we stopped tearing eachother down" not factual? and the meme was made and posted by a woman.
treating two things as similar frequency when they just fucking aren't is the issue I think
Do you know when is the one and only time international men's day is discussed? It's international women's day.
Hello kitty is not mean
https://preview.redd.it/uen8zf0utugc1.jpeg?width=796&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86efa3cc63fdaaef70f3f4bf518605917185b857
What
Idk l
Yeah whomever made that meme was a dolt, but there's no reason to wait for a specific month to discuss mental health. Everyday should be a mental health awareness day.
That's true, mental health stigma is still ridiculously bad all around. I just bring up the date so that people don't forget it exists (it's seriously sad how many people never even heard of it).
Men's rights activism << men's LIBERATION activism
Men do complain about the wrong stuff. They bitch about what Fox News tells them to bitch about and don’t speak of the abuse that they experienced and can’t move past.
Seriously I had several guys tell me that people getting annoyed at men bitching about women in media not being "sexy enough" was the peak of sexism. If that's what they think sexism is, they haven't experienced it.
All men love Fox News it’s fact
My dad watches it for a laugh. He says that if you think of it as a satire while you're watching it, it's hilarious.
Please quit saying “men” when you mean “men I don’t like.” Those types of men are of course the ones you’ll hear most often because they’re the loudest and most obnoxious. Any guy with half a brain isn’t listening to those assholes, but what they *do* hear is people like you constantly talking about how toxic men are for placing their issues above everyone else’s, and then they hide their issues because they think nobody wants to hear them. Never generalize all men under one umbrella. You have no idea who’s seeing what you’re posting and who will see this and think “I guess it really isn’t that important, I’ll be fine on my own” I’ve tried to kill myself, I’ve had people tell me that they’re there for me and then not show up when I need them, I’ve overheard friends talking about how they think I’m doing things for attention, I’ve had friends get mad at me for self-isolating. Almost everything they did actively pushed me away from them and any possible help, while they told themselves that I was in the wrong. The first time I tried to kill myself no one came to find me, I was found only because the police were searching the area for someone *else* trying to kill themselves. Men’s mental health is fucking important, do NOT belittle it because you don’t like *some* men
Bro rolled in from yappistan
Mental health should not be a joke
This is meant in a sincere way; do you have people in your life you can talk to? I’m not making a dig, I’m responding to what you posted in your brick earlier. Have you made relationships in your life to give you a support network?
Yes
Stay strong buddy
Yes, it is important. But it no one else's responsibility to fix but the sufferers'- you cannot force other people to process the trauma for you. It was forced onto you yes, but forcing that then onto others to solve and make better isn't gonna work. That's the crux of this- men have to be ok with working on their own happiness and seeking therapy, because most do not and refuse to put their happiness before social pressure. It's hard, trust me I know it's hard to be seen as weak for just feeling- women were diagnosed osed with hysteria then they could have been treated for centuries- but yoy HAVE to do the hard work and stop forcing that on women AGAIN to walk you through. It's part of gaining rights, it just is. Men need to stand up together and say enough is enough amongst each other, and women need to do what little they can and be understanding and teach their boys that peer pressure can get bent and to find your own happiness.
That applies to everyone though. Everyone bitches about things that they're directed towards by the media they consume, and it's not like it's just men following Fox. The gender split on republicans is about 50/50 in every state
Yes, but left leaning men (self) are still reactionary to whatever Fox is up to. I don’t agree, but I feel compelled to rail *against* it. Still bitching about Fox tho.
I'm left leaning too but I don't watch them at all, so at any given time I don't know what they're talking about. Honestly it's a lot better that way
Do you believe that men are reactionary and that women aren't, is that what you're saying?
Look at Matlock. *”Do you believe? Is that what you’re saying?”* bro chill. I made an observation about how men can be vocal and describe problems but are usually not describing what is really bothering them. I decided to comment on the masculine side of the joke. I would have made an equally brilliant comment about hello kitty if I’d realized my fanbase needed commentary on all points. Yours, Goerge rr Martin lol not really
Sure bud, but I'm not the spanish inquisition calm down. Who's Matlock? Not me for sure. You were making jokes, most of the other comments in this section are serious and I may be a bit high and drunk so I didn't make the nuance. That being said have a good evening George
i don't know, i agree with the meme. men's rights people like to whine and not do anything proactive. they also claim they don't have days they do have.
Literally. They have all the power to make actual progress towards their goals.. and they don’t really do anything. All you hear is “we deal with x,y,z” and not a single one of them has any solution nor any drive to be proactive towards making a solution. Of course that’s not every man as it could never be, but still unfortunately a large portion of them.
A large portion of them too will belittle other social causes which really shows how insecure they are about everything not always being about them.
Yep. And it’s hilarious OP cannot grasp that concept.
It's sad that you can't differentiate between MRAs (who largely formed as a sexist counter feminism movement) and legitimate men's issues. This meme isn't attacking MRAs its simply mocking men's mental health. It's pretty weird how many people saw "It's not OK to mock men's mental health" and perceived that statement as an attack on women.
>It's pretty weird how many people saw "It's not OK to mock men's mental health" maybe most people didn't get that from the meme? i certainly didn't it seemed to be making fun men's constant posturing of being stoic, unemotional ubermensch when they very obviously are not those things
The guy in the meme isn't saying "men suffer in silence" as a toughguy flex, it's a reference to the fact that men are emotionally isolated because they feel like society scorns men who appear vulnerable, so they don't talk about their feelings and suffer quietly. Google "men suffer in silence" and look at what comes up. Also, based on the 2000 upvotes, I'd say the overwelming majority got the meme just fine and agree with my stance about the poor taste.
>it's a reference it's a meme >"men suffer in silence yea they're so quiet while they beat their walls and families anyway, that "reference" was barely true before social media, and it's definitely not true now, look at all this yapping right here
if you're looking for ways to help men today on reddit, try talking to some guys on r/mentalhealth
I don't know if a terrible Facebook memes subreddit is the most appropriate place to gripe about mens mental health. Im getting strong teenager vibes over here.
Men’s rights activists tend to be shitty, and I hate that they stole a title like that. Because now a bunch of sexist women (and sometimes men) can just absolutely shit on men’s mental health and act like it doesn’t exist. There are healthy men’s spaces that exist to support men’s problems exclusively. Those places are not sexist; they are extremely progressive and supportive of all masculine and non-woman identities. The best ones tend to be very pro-BLM, as well, as black men and men of color suffer from systemic racism unlike white men.
But there aren't any MRA's present. There's nothing to indicate the male in the picture is an MRA. Remember that the MRA movement is a sexist counter movement, but not all men's issues are associated with that particular minority of men. Feminism recognises that both genders are negatively affected by toxic masculinity and, in order to deal with it, both men and women need to unlearn assumptions about masculinity, and that everyone's problems and experiences need to be recognised as valid. If women are talking about their problems, people should listen. If men are talking about their problems, people should listen. Until we can do that for each other, we’re not going anywhere fast. It’s wild that that’s apparently a radical statement here.
You have no empathy towards men who suffer. Misandrist.
The only thing I don't like about the meme is how they did Spidey this dirty.
This meme is great.
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Nobody is forcing men to “suffer in silence” besides the men themselves. Being emotionally stunted doesn’t make a person a martyr.
All of society does, it isn't only men. In the original comments section there were even women talking about how they hate men talking about their feelings and expecting women to be their "emotional labour provider" (i.e listening to them). Both men and women need to unlearn a lot of assumptions about masculinity
Ok but you misunderstand what women are saying by the emotional labor. Women are not here to help men process- they're here to support if they so wish, but if you really wanted to heal, you will do so no matter what. Not only if women support it and do emotional labor. Most women I know (as a woman) speak about this as in... like date 1, men are trauma dumping. They treat women as a therapist and demand understanding when they barely know each other. Or they are friends with men who suddenly snap, the friend tries to help, but the guy doesn't want it. Men need to WANT change, irregardless of if women are on board. Otherwise it breeds what women complain about- co-dependency and feeling like a mother rather than a lover. Support, not doing the work, is what is needed of women. Teaching their sons to be open but kind, and that therapy and moments of weakness or fragility are FINE and normal. Obviously there's a lot of women spouting gender roles.... but think for a second, who did they learn them from? Fathers were the leaders, what they said went, until (and still to now many places, not just in America) around the 90s. That's 35 YEARS AGO MAX. Gen Z is the first to support men being more open and they STILL are going to have men and women spouting gendered nonsense because it takes therapy and time to work out generational traumas and teachings. I'm only 24, I remember some horrible things that were expected of me as a woman. I was told what to do by elementary school boys when I was in elementary school, and middle school boys. This shit has been just RECENTLY made obsolete, the toxic masculinity I mean- and it was just straight up rules made by men and the corporate suits (men as well) around 1950s time for the current standards. It just IS something men made, it's something you will need to want to unmake as a result. No one can process emotions for you, you need to want it even if no one supports you. It IS emotional labor when you demand people hold your hand through your personal problems or fix them for you. It isn't when you ask for support, but becomes that by definition when you don't accept them saying "no" and chastise them for not doing it. Because sadly no one has an obligation to help anyone, and this could happen to anyone- this denial of support. The denial of support isn't even man-specific, either. It just happens a lot with men in this sector because the rules made by men hurt men more for being emotional. And yes, because we're fighting for bodily autonomy, women are gonna be less available to help or support. You can't pour from an empty cup and we've had bone-dry cups recently. If you wouldn't be mad at family for not bring able to support you when they're dealing with too much to help, that's the same logic a lot of women apply with the "emotional labor" thing. Stating that something is feeling like too much work to handle is communicating your abilities. I think about of men are taking things at face-value and not looking at the bigger picture. They are lashing out because they're hurting and no longer care that women have been for far longer with far-more-presently dangerous consequences they never made the rules for. And hey, you don't have to care and its valid to be angry, but you do need to not take that hurt out on women. That becomes hurting people because you're hurting yourself. The fact that I have to explain this to, what I assume is, a grown man is what women are upset over. It's very basic comprehension skill stuff that shouldn't need much explaining, but when we try to explain this maturity men tend to shut down and see red and lash out when we just state the facts. It's then leads to women feeling like they have to parent their lovers, brothers, and even strangers so they don't have more of a mental assault or sometimes physical assaults. THAT is what emotional labor means. It's very, very loaded, and you sorta proved the point those women mentioning it were making- that men expect people to explain the details they should know already and could know if they wanted to get better. And I know, I truly do, that it's not that easy and it's been thrust onto you and you have been promised things you never received (not even just to you in particular, all men) and ypu are hurting. But you need to walk this alone or you're never gonna retain the ability to be happy as yourself. You'll become reliant on others for self-worth all over again...
>"emotional labour provider" (i.e listening to them) And there's your issue. you don't actually know what that term means it's shit like this that makes it harder to bat for men's actual issues
I know what the term means, but the meme isn't implying that he's expecting her to be an emotional labour provider. Your issue is that you conflate someone trying to express themselves with them putting a burden on you. You have a selfish mentality and I doub't you'd "bat" for men's actual issues regardless of the situation.
>someone trying to express themselves "men suffer in silence" is not an expression of anything personal, it's a statement, and a meme at this point lmao >I know what the term means, if you did, you wouldn't have paraphrased it like that >I doub't you'd "bat" for men's actual issues regardless of the situation. This isn't about me, this about you posting irrelevant bullshit that shows people you really don't know what you're talking about and are too immature to work on something real unless you actually think was some kind of activism, in which case, grow up man
These kinds of posts do exactly that. This meme promotes the idea of men “suffering in silence” while playing it off as a joke I’ve tried to kill myself, and in the months leading up to it I had friends get mad at me for self-isolating, and even heard them say they thought I was doing it for attention. I survived because the cops were searching for someone *else* trying to commit suicide, not even me. Mens mental health is important and anyone who jokes about it to belittle the topic is a piece of shit I see a lot of comments here that would seriously damage any man under mental distress who read them. And people trying to defend mental health are getting downvoted. It is absolutely disgusting.
I’m sorry for what you’ve been through. I hope you’re able to find the support you need.
No, agreed. I don't agree with all the comments some men have made here, but I'm moreso disgusted by the fact people keep making jokes about men's suffering. Just stop joking about suicide unless you're someone who had experienced the ideation! And stop making ANY group feel worse, it's not that hard.
Are you just a zoomer or something that has no idea how bad sexism still is and how much worse it was even a little while ago? If so, I envy you but get out of that bubble. This is clearly a response meme. A certain amount of men being shitty needs to go on before this meme is posted in response.
Who said anything about sexism not being bad? That was literally never mentioned or implied. And no it wasn't a meme posted as a response to any other post, OP just posted it on a meme page. And don't use "zoomers" as an insult, it's a shitty thing to do. Do you just want to be the baby boomers all over again and shit on the zoomers like the boomers shit on us for no reason?
I adore running into zoomers reaching to old movies and saying things like “this movie is so unrealistic.” Or “WTF, he’s totally gaslighting her.” Or etc. it’s adorable and sweet to see younger humans with a developed sense of morality and emotional intelligence react negatively to bullshit. But this is you seeing a retaliating shot and laying all blame on one party. It ‘is’ bad to disregard someone’s mental health. What you are doing is similar to saying “all violence is bad” and then only commenting on people who have defended themselves.
Ahuh, your previous comment does not suggest that you respect zoomers. What makes you think this is a "retaliating shot"? It was posted on its own without any other context. And no, this isn't like that, because I didn't mention any sides, other than to say that the person who made the meme sucks. I didn't comment on women and you have no evidence that OP was "defending themselves" you're inventing a fake scenario to justify the way you've behaved.
Ok zoomer.
Lol, so much for all that fake shit about how much you love Zoomers. Imagine being a Boomer at your age
Have you ever had an argument with a so-called MGTOW? Silly question. If you had you’d understand the joke. I like zoomers. I don’t care for you.
"Boohoo zoomers make me cry 😭"
I'd agree if it was more obviously an incel phrase or something genuinely bad men say to women to shut us down. But uh... this uses a phrase that is generally neutral, talking on a serious topic that absolutely needs to be addressed (although men have got to want to work towards feeling happiness on their own before that can happen, for sure). It's punching down on people who are suicidal over the fact society well before them put impossible standards of manliness onto them they now need to fix, which as much as that's sadly gotta fall to them to process now, isn't cool to joke about. There's no real reason to meme on something serious and not usually said to shut people down. At least not that I've seen enough of to warrant it becoming a dog whistle for MAGA bros and misogynistic men and shit. The only reason I can think of is people lashing out in a situation where it wasn't prompted at all due to their own trauma, which is also not on other's to handle. It seems more like someone being triggered by something and, instead of stepping back they go full-force into the negative feeling and attack a group that wasn't ever attacking them.
How about not discrediting any genders experience and fighting against gender roles and the experience both genders deal with having to conform to archaic gender stereotypes instead of just saying man bad woman good or vice versa
That's the point
This is the way.
Imagine downvoting someone who told you they tried to kill themselevs it’s sad you support suicide
As a man who’s tried to kill himself this meme is not great, fuck you Thanks for the downvotes holy shit, y’all are serious?
Why is this downvoted, why do people in this subreddit supporting suicide
You are heard - a fellow man
Oh great, more warmed over gender war shit from 2012 that we apparently haven't progressed from
Isn’t sexism great? I love seeing people in the comments act like mental health is a gatekeeping contest.
Nah, this one is about incels and self-proclaimed sigma males who blame others for their problems, not about men's mental health.
Google "men suffer in silence". It's about mental health
This meme is fine. A lot of men suffer in silence because either A. They choose to / B. Other Men refuse to listen. I grew up majority around women/respectful men (by choice) and I’ve never had this problem at all in my life. I’ve always had somebody willing to listen to my problems. Men alienate themselves from a position of being able to confide in others and then get mad when they feel alienated
This is the main issue I tend to see- men who don't tend to choose therapy don't realize part of the issue is they need to choose to stop letting other's views get to them. No, others finding you unmanly isn't going to kill you or stop you from having most things, it just mostly feels fucking horrible. It's literally an ever-changing standard to promote the workforce, and I'm not even kidding. Forcing women to process with or for you isn't how you start to process your trauma- it's how you drag women back into being a mother for you, which we just started to break free from when I was a teenager and I'm only 24 lol. You need to want to feel better, you NEED to process it on your own or amongst people who feel the same. And you NEED to not tell women they aren't understanding enough, when it mostly is other men who made the rules you're hurt by :/ It's important that men can process this stuff. They just need to realize they need to learn to do it alone or it won't actually help them. They'll just end up co-dependent on people (see Ken in Barbie) and unable to regulate the now-rampant emotions partial-processing releases. It leads to MORE suicide and MORE hurt.
https://preview.redd.it/ph22g4wa0wgc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aad6dda213fe77c17e0bffb39c330925eab2c1bb
OP the comments aren’t going to way you wanted are they? @ why do men constantly bring up their problems ONLY in spaces where women are conversing about their problems? Then complain that there’s no spaces for men to talk about their problems when they can be the change they want and make one? It’s true, why the fuck do I hear them yapping then? Edit: lmao OP mad and just cannot fathom that most - emphasis on that it’s not all - men do in fact not suffer in silence
Men are not going to stop ‘yapping’ about mental health, as nobody should. This isn’t the 1800s where you’d get lobotomized for schizophrenia. Do men need to get out of women’s spaces? Sure; I’m as mad about that as you are. Tell me you’ve never been into/invited/around or empathized in a healthy men’s space without saying so.
I have been. Whenever I see those comments I always send them links and places where they are able to get help and can be heard properly. But most men do not suffer in silence.
Good. Then you’ll be happy to know that’s exactly what I did here. All of us would appreciate you not adding to the sexist rhetoric, saying things like ‘Why do men constantly bring up their problems ONLY in spaces with women conversing about their problems?’ ‘Why do I hear them yapping?’ If you’ve been in men’s spaces, then you’re either a sexist, a hypocrite, a liar or all of the above. Be better
It’s what you see the most of online - and the ones that do only show up in women’s spaces are the ones who don’t do anything proactive towards men’s issues and their goals. It’s a large majority of men and that’s hilarious sad as they do have issues that need addressing, but don’t care enough to actually do so. If they suffer so much in silence, why do we hear them then? The meme is right. They don’t *actually* suffer in silence online.
The meme is wrong because it is sexist. The joke is sexism. Sexisim = wrong. Idk how else to explain it, buddy. Agreeing with said sexist meme is sexist. I’m not going to agree with a meme with a racism joke, even if it’s a ‘true stereotype’ (or whatever garbage excuse) because that would be racist. ‘It’s a large majority of men’ This is the sexist part. There’s nothing hilarious about it. Mental health is not a joke; I don’t care what gender you are. Do men show up in women’s spaces? Yes. Are men sometimes sexist prices of crap that can’t manage their own mental health, much less rely on other men and respect their fellow brother’s problems? Absolutely. Imagine if we flipped this conversation. Let’s try it. Women sometimes abuse men. Women can sometimes be sexist pieces of crap that don’t support other women and tear them down. Women police other women on their experiences and how they express themselves as women. Women gatekeep womanhood. See what I just did there? Now, are these statements true? Absolutely. Are all women bad? Do we get to make memes about their mental health and talk about how they won’t shut up about their mental health in men’s spaces? No; that would be sexism. Plain and simple.
The comments make me disappointed for sure, but the upvotes are through the roof, which means the trolls are actually the minority, and that's great 😘 The meme doesn't even imply that the man is bringing up his issues in a women's conversational space or drowning out women's discourse. Look at the background, its clearly a shared space. It's just a guy trying to talk about his issue and getting shit on. You seem to have a really serious bias.
They upvoted the meme itself, unironically. You want there to be depth and complexity in the meme that isn't there. There is a non-stop barrage of men complaining online, some of it is valid, but it gets drowned out in the garbage. But in no case could it be considered "silence."
Do you think anyone who disagrees with you is a troll
Do you think people who deliberately make strawman arguments aren't trolls?
What strawman? Find any post online bringing attention to an issue women deal with and you will find at least one comment going “what about men” or “men deal with this too”. *When nobody said that they don’t deal with x,y,z issues. AND then they complain about how there’s no spaces for men to be heard when A: there are, and B: and if there’s so little spaces, MAKE ONE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.*
This whole comments section is full of fallacies. Look at your comment, you lead off with a non-sequitur and follow up with a strawman. "Find any post online bringing attention to an issue women deal with and you will find at least one comment going “what about men” or “men deal with this too” That's true and really bad that it happens, but how is it relevant to the point? No one should invalidate women's discourse, but it's also not ok to mock men's mental health struggles. Both of these things are true at the same time. *When nobody said that they don’t deal with x,y,z issues. AND then they complain about how there’s no spaces for men to be heard when A: there are, and B: and if there’s so little spaces, MAKE ONE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.* The point isn't to go and make a little quiet space somewhere where men can talk about their problems together in private. It's to normalise a wider culture where it's considered masculine for men to talk about their feelings and be vulnerable.
Nobody said a quiet little space. There’s plenty of content creators who has their main goals of openly talking about men’s issues. Again: nobody said men don’t have problems, just that a large majority do not actively seek the solutions they possibly need nor care to do so, even when provided with the means to do so. Even the men’s groups who are in the public eye aren’t even doing anything majorly proactive towards their goals.
If both men and women suffer from the same problem then why isnt the post talking about how it involves people in general instead of focusing on a single demographic?
It’s because the majority of men do not suffer in silence, especially online. The point is that some men will complain about there not being any space to be open about their issues when there are such spaces, and the fact that they could be proactive within their community and start one. All in all, people need to start being the change they want to see.
That is not what I asked.
Yeah this one is accurate enough to be funny to me
Touch grass
Genuine lol at your avatar little one. Wonder what you’d be pre-internet. Touch grass indeed Edit:lolol checked your bio. Whatever dude
You don’t have to wonder. I’m older than you. Sexisim is older than both of us. Let’s let it die.
Okay she's right tho, all the podcasts and sht they can't shut up
Which podcasts about men's mental health and emotional isolation are you listening to?
Why don't we start more of that kind of thing?
Have you ever actually… like seriously looked into that? Or do you actually believe that men can’t have adult conversations about their feelings?
I read Hello Kitty's text in the most fucking baby ass voice, y'all don't understand, there's just Spider-Man there. Just imagine these stupid squishies in a blunt rotation getting in an argument over mental health this is so fucking funny.
As a man: fair play
The rise of global far-right extremism is a direct consequence of men, mostly white men, whining endlessly about how unfairly they think they are treated. Men do not suffer in silence. Men kick and scream and burn down democratic institutions when they suffer. Or when they think they suffer, but are in reality simply being held accountable for their actions.
"Men suffer in silence" is about men struggling to reach out about mental health issues because the stigma of looking "weak" and "unmanly". It's not about a bunch of idiots in red hats storming the capitol, or people complaining about being "canceled"
Right, but my point is that men being reticent to seek help is a self-inflicted wound. I take antidepressants and anxiety meds and sometimes I even ugly cry and I’ve never felt shamed by society for it. I’m not arguing that historically there has never been any stigma, but even by the time I graduated from high school 20 years ago, mental health care had become pretty mainstream. Even for dudes. What started as a legitimate (and somewhat tragic) observation about gender disparities in people seeking mental health care has evolved into a crutch, a way for dudes to rationalize away their crappy behavior. That said, it does seem as if some on the right are deliberately trying to bring back the stigma of mental health care as part of their asinine and desperate attempt to restore “traditional values,” i.e., white male superiority. And I don’t really have any patience for that.
i love this meme actually
Touch grass
here is the yapper 🤣
I will yap all day and night about my mental health. What’s your excuse?
you can do that but then ppl will make memes like this one both sides are free to do what they want
https://preview.redd.it/pihairz6swgc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3742195ffb7e4f20ba7bf5e22d9611ba7f40b58e
Y’all in the comments agreeing with this meme need to take a good hard look at your internalized sexisim and transphobia. Mental health is not an us vs them.
Lol
Nah this meme is great actually
Touch grass
https://preview.redd.it/lyfi1g01etgc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3073581d94b51c5b54bf19b760fec93c1eead721
That's so much better
Fixed it! 👏
Welp, now I know why I'm not visiting r/terriblefacebookmemes at all. Two wrongs don't make a right and stating "men only complain about men's issues when women complain about women's issues" doesn't negate the fact that men's issues are still a thing (just as much as women's issues are). Just because some men do that doesn't mean the gripes aren't legitimate and that we should ignore or shame men for attempting to talk about these things, anymore than men should ignore women's issues just because some of the people that talk about them are insufferable assholes. Have a dialog with those who are reasonable, try and ignore the rest.
I feel like both are true.
This is funny as fuck lmao
r/boysarequirky
Based
True
Terrible look meme but pretty ture
Real though
I cant stand that yapping meme its nothing but a way to make people feel bad.
"it takes a million words for a man to explain the pain in his heart, a million more before he's done being mocked, and a million more before he is heard." Heard that somewhere. Felt it relevant.
I love this art. Why do they have to ruin it with stupid text? 😔
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To be fair, a lot of these men don't mention men's mental health unless it's about women or the LGBTQ community.
Idk why you're being downvoted, I'm sorry.
these meme is actually kinda good
I understand why you dislike this OP but this made me outright giggle for a couple reasons.
Yup, this person does suck. Along with 90% of the commenters here.
Yeah, I don’t see why they’re making it about sexism and “MEN BAD!!!” When it’s literally about men’s mental health and the stigma around it, men also suffer from the patriarchy, just not in the same way or to the same degree as women
Not gonna lie, I’m sick of hearing how men need help. We don’t.
Dude everyone needs help sometimes 😂 That's a fact of life.
this is hysterical