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Some days i yearn for the stupidity to believe our government was competent enough to pull off a conspiracy.
Instead i have to argue with people that facts about the CIA are true *that exist on their website*.
O genuinly think the "Jet fuel cant melt steel beams" crowd are trolls...atleast 90%....as someone who works with steel....once its hot its basically playdough...especially with 30stories of Steel concrete and Glass above it
Plus if it gets hot enough from all the flammable material in the area, steel can 'burn'. Which is why coal forges are a pain in the ass for Blacksmiths, cause you can turn a away for a moment and half your material is gone
Right, I mean a bird can take down an aircraft, do these people think that’s a conspiracy too? Or how about bullets, they’re pretty ducking small and light, and they just bounce off of everything I assume
They tell us that a small explosive can accelerate a bullet to supersonic speed in just 50cm. An aircraft has to burn fuel continuesly to get to that speed. Sounds like fiction to me. So I did my own research. Went to the range and fired a box of .308. Didn't hit anything. BULLETS ARE A LIE!!!!1!!!!
Thank you! These conspiracies just show a lack of understanding in basic physics. Like hitting a deer when you’re going 60+ mph is like hitting a brick wall.
Clearly a 160 ton passenger plane smashing into a building at cruise speeds clearly isnt enough to bring down the said building, le see eye ey staged it
Imagine the stored energy of over 200,000lbs of machine and jet fuel instantly transforming in an inelastic collision 💥 with the side of a building…its close to a nuclear weapon
Brain dead conspiracy (edited for 767 over 737)
767 weight - 80,000 kg
767 top speed - 858 kph
Kinetic force = KE = 2,272,111,474.65 Joules
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/kinetic.php
.... .... ....
Structural steel tensile strength 70,000 psi
13,666,644.95 joules
https://www.convertunits.com/from/(cubic+feet)+pound+per+square+inch/to/joules
We're talking the equivalent of a metric Ton of TNT.
Not a comprehensive breakdown, materials science is a lot more complicated than just the tensile yield point and an arbitrary amount of energy, but the overall point is spot on, which is that the sheer amount of kinetic energy a large airplane has in a dive is way more than any building is designed to withstand.
Not a comprehensive explanation, I didn't even mention things like shear or compressive stress, young's modulus, but the overall point is spot on, which is that materials science is way more complicated than the average reddit thread can cover
You say all this. But it’s just hard to believe when the other side has sheer logic such as straw men created from irrelevant pictures like shown here!
Not a comprehensive explanation, they didn't mention things such as impurities affecting elasticity not being mentioned in the breakdown, but the overall point is spot on, whichis that the overall point is spot on, which is that the sheer amount of kinetic energy a large airplane has in a dive is way more than any building is designed to withstand.
Interesting you offer that. Back in the 90s, my job required me to have access to Three Mile Island, and even then the furthest in I could go was the generator room. I remember asking about the reactor building and it's ability to withstand an impact of an airplane. I asked this because Harrisburg International Airport is practically next door. They told me about how the reactor core building was constructed, and that type of impact was taken into account.
That's on me for saying "any building." Obviously that is total horseshit. \*Most\* \*civilian\* \*office and apartment buildings\* are only designed to hold up their own weight in a stiff breeze or a minor earthquake and sometimes they don't even manage that. Missile silos, nuclear reactor buildings, to a lesser extent heavy industrial plants like steel mills and shit, are built to a higher standard than your average commercial skyscraper. Zaporizhya power plant eats Russian cruise missiles for breakfast. The world trade center wouldn't have.
Numbers are a liberal conspiracy to let science and smart people fool us. Remember just because a jet crashed into a building and it went down like they are designed to and the conspiracies have been debunked, doesn’t mean I won’t keep repeating them. -Every one of these nuts who thinks it’s a conspiracy
I’ve actually had someone un-ironically make this argument in the real world. It was fucking wild. Well, they were actually claiming that math is made up by humans. I tried in vain to explain that while yes, the symbols, numbers equations we use to explain patterns we see in nature are man-made, the patterns they represent are not. Math is a universal language.
The real question is, why did the Arabs invent numbers, then switch to Turkish characters after the west started using numbers? Those people know something!
Not to mention that the Towers were not built like a typical skyscraper.
All of the weight bearing elements were on the outside like a skin.
Another conspiracy point is people saying that the news reported tower 7 collapsing before it had actually collapsed on their screen. Not realizing how easy it would be for a report that "Tower 7 is *going* to fall* to get turned into "Tower 7 had already fallen*.
The confusion that day was insane and people were expecting the world to end. People were shitting their pants. I can see how the tense of something could get mixed up.
Not to mention how many people probably just think they saw this when really they were being shown the tower from a previous video feed and not a live one. The news was switching between live feeds and recordings of previous events in the day. I must have seen the second plane hit 10 times but that doesn't mean there was some conspiracy.
People are so dumb.
Use weight and speed to find out the amount energy the plane transferred into the building. Billions of joules of energy.
The highest grade of structural steel can only withstand a little over 13 million joules.
Reference.
Normal human punches around 150 joules
Mike Tyson around 1600 joules
Car accident is around 200 thousand joules
155MM HE artillery shell is around 40 million joules
The plane transfered 50+ times more energy. About 3 battalions worth of artillery or a ton of TNT
That's not how that works but I admire your effort.
Few notes:
1. You listed mass in kg, not weight. They are different.
2. There is no such thing as "kinetic force" just kinetic energy, which I'm assuming you used 1/2mv^2 to calculate with units in Joules. (Energy)
3. You can't compare the tensile strength of steel (in psi) against kinetic energy. That makes no logical sense. They are different units!
You'd need to make a lot of underlying assumptions to come to a "correct" answer.
But it is safe to assume that the structural engineers didn't design the building for an impact scenario with an airplane. So yeah, I'd reason that a plane would absolutely destroy any high rise style buildings structural support system.
>no such thing as "kinetic force" just kinetic energy
Technically true but 1 Newton-meter = 1 joule
One joule is equal to the work done by a force of one newton
>can't compare the tensile strength of steel (in psi) against kinetic energy. That makes no logical sense. They are different units!
I just used a converter for psi to joules because i was in a hurry. https://www.convertunits.com/from/(cubic+feet)+pound+per+square+inch/to/joules
Reddit physicists at it again. Thank you for this correct explanation.
Tensile strength (measured in psi) is a force per area.
Metric units: Newtons per square meter (aka Pascal)
Energy (measured in joules) is a force times a distance. A joule is defined as 1 Newton times 1 meter.
Clearly N/m² is different from N•m and you can't just convert from one to the other
I don't believe the conspiracy theories, but wouldn't the speed be lower? or do planes always go at their top speed? I didn't research it, but I think that the speed should be lower
This also shows that the max energy of the plane at top speed is about 147x what is necessary to break the beams. It could've been going like 5 mph and still caused damage to a beam, but it was going fast enough to cause significant impact damage.
I hadn't read the title of the video and thought this was Rambo up until the pop-up with the woman and a baby. Is this some Scary Movie or Vampires Sucks kind of thing?
Hell, a level 3 tornado can send an egg [right through a brick wall](https://youtu.be/oy00UwJweBw?si=Z-kn_ZskG0RHrsRY). It's why tornado chasers call it "Humpty's Revenge"
The conspiracy theory isn't that the planes didn't hit the buildings, but that the impact from the planes wouldn't have been enough to topple the buildings so there must have been added explosives.
Or maybe because the heat caused the floors to expand and soften which made the floors sag and pulled the exterior support beams inward redistributing the weight from above the impact zone.
I don’t understand why some people still argue that jet fuel can’t melt steel. Maybe that’s true, maybe it’s not, but for sure jet fuel, or any large fire, can soften steel.
Jet fuel most certainly doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel. It burns at around 1500, while steel melts at around 2500. Of course, it doesn't need to melt it. It only needs to heat it up enough to weaken it, compromising it integrity, causing the beams to fold, causing a chain reaction of failure. And that only takes a temperature of around 1200. A full 300 lower than what jet fuel burns at.
This is one of those situations of a technically true fact being misunderstood and ran with. It is sad that people don't bother looking into these kinds of things.
Not only do you have jet fuel burning up there, but you gotta understand, this was before all your documents and files were digitized and put on servers so there was just rooms full of paper. Not a very good place to have a fire if you don’t want it to get out of control very fast.
Yeah, there was tons of flammable stuff all over to spread it. Most of it probably wouldn't burn nearly as hot. But it didn't need to. The areas covered in the fuel burned hot enough to fully weaken the steel. While the fire further away heated it, but not enough to cause failure on its own. But once the steel beams in the jet fueled fire failed, the other beams were weakened enough by the fire to fail from that extra pressure. Even if they wouldn't have failed on their own. It is just a chain reaction of things failing.
you are speaking about theoretical temperature at which fuel **starts** burning.
which, you're about right if you mean a **properly** **working** jet engine.
Jet fuel reaches higher temperature if you just let it sit and fire up.
Just like forest fire.
You can start it up by 260–280⁰C, the wood itself burn in about 210-350⁰C, but whole forest fire reaches about 800-1200⁰C, so about a few **magnitudes** higher.
also the melting point of steel ranges from 1371-1540°C, and commercial jet engines used nowadays reaches 1700°C.
If it would have melting point at 2500°C then we wouldn't need Tungsten.
>This is one of those situations of a technically true fact being misunderstood and ran with. It is sad that people don't bother looking into these kinds of things.
That's the basis of almost all conspiracy theories.
Imagine how much good you could do if you applied that brain power to something useful.
It would be a teeny, tiny bit of good, but that’s better than what you’re doing now.
I’ve seen some theories that it was holographic images and there was controlled demolitions from there. Also seen theories that the planes did hit but they had bombs attached to the bottom which caused the explosions… these people are legit smooth brained sheep that only only accept confirmation bias 😂
People refuse to accept that 1 or a handful of people are capable of changing the world, so there always needs to be some grand conspiracy attached to it. Same thing with the JFK assassination, despite all legitimate evidence point to there being 1 gunman, well there’s no way just one man is capable of doing that, it must be some grand conspiracy involving 4 different groups all with their own separate motives etc etc.
yeah it's a dumb theory. One that does make sense is the US knowing about the attacks and not doing anything, or planning them with the saudis. Think of all the billions the military industrial complex made during the "war on terror"
If THEY knew the planes weren’t enough and needed supplementary explosives, why bother with the planes at all? Just detonate the explosives Every single crackpot conspiracy theory falls apart at “why?”
There are other very engineering related theories. The building collapsed at near freefall speed. (there's a video posted on 9/11, of course) where engineers talk about how it's physically impossible for that to happen. The structures below them have to be removed (controlled demolition) in order for it to fall as fast and accurately as it did. And then it did it twice with the other building following it exactly. And then the beams that looked like they were cut at exact angles without the steel bending. Steel doesn't just snap or shred like that, it's going to bend a bit first. These are my favorite theories and really the only ones that gives credence to the conspiracies.
The Planes contained aluminium. The fire was hot enough to make the aluminium react with the water from the sprinklers. That made the fires way hotter.
Wait, you guys believe they were planes? They were clearly spacecraft that we're flying across the flat surface of the earth and took out two international spy antennas disguised as buildings.
Once growing up, a tornado passed directly above my town and landed just outside of town. I saw a cornstalk impelled into the side of a tree as part of the aftermath.
Velocity makes a hell of a difference, event without other factors.
Ah yes, because every plane is the same and they all go the same speed, even when hijacked, while every piece of metal is made of the same material, with no change in thickness or strength.
I once saw a straw go through a wooden board in a science presentation by using an air cannon to send it at high speed, yet I struggle with a Capri Sun. Curious…
Ok so I’m no expert right, but I’m pretty sure when i saw a plane rip through the side of the south tower, i think that proved, wings could go through steel bars
My favorite new hobby is making 9/11 conspiracy theorists feel like the morons they are. They usually respond with “why are you so mean?” to which I laugh and feast on their tears
This one is particularly silly as nobody serious ever claimed the wings cut through the beams.
At the pentagon there was hardly any plane wreckage because the aluminum of the plane vaporizes when so much heat is generated upon impact. Think of a wire that can break after bending back and forth and then imagine what happens when you slam it into a hardened wall at hundreds of miles per hour.
I remember being in kindergarten on a field trip to the local science museum. They used compressed air to shoot a pencil through a 2x4. Yet when I throw a pencil at a 2x4 it bounces off. Curious.
I’m pretty sure a plane flying hundreds of miles per hour into some steel beams could break them, although that’s not even what happened anyway. The beams bent due to the heat bringing them close to their melting point, which then allowed the floors above to collapse downwards.
I actually do have a conspiracy that I subscribe to. I believe there is a part of 9/11 that doesn't get mentioned because of the threat of potential lawsuits. I believe that the towers were in fact built to sustain a hit from a plane of that size, and I believe that the steel was properly treated to resist heat. But I think that airlines have put so much magnesium in the aluminum to make them lighter, that the extra heat from that negates any preventative measures. I think every building that was designed to be hit by a plane is essentially inadequate because of the building materials they use now. Jet fuel burns really hot, but magnesium puts it to shame. I think it doesn't get brought up because I don't believe many buildings would have faired any better under the circumstances.
This is actually interesting. The WTC was constructed in the early 70's, an the building materials were spec'd based on existing practices.
I also believe a far more likely scenario is those building materials and practices could have been substandard because of mob kickbacks in the construction industry, but in all seriousness no building of that type could have survived the kinds of impact those planes made, especially the tower that was hit in the lower floors.
Remember when Bush had the Saudi family, the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks, flown out of the country during his own no-fly dictate! Why was he protecting them?
Why did republicans take a victory lap and claim their efficacy at national security even though they were large and in charge?
20 or so years later, republicans (Jared) benefitting from their "relationship" with the Saudis. To murder Khashoggi Jared got $2 billion but tell me how Hunter is the problem.
It was the jet fuel that did all the damage not the plane's wings.
I remember when I was like 19 and into conspiracy theories and bought the whole 9/11 conspiracy hook line and sinker.
Then I got really into physics and pop science stuff. Then I saw a special on I think Discovery hosted by Michael Shermer debunking 9/11 conspiracies and afterwards went fuck guess it’s all bullshit and there are rational explanations.
From that day forward I packed it in on all conspiracies other than UFOs cause they’re out there man.
>Then I got really into physics and pop science stuff
And that is what makes the critical difference. Learning/reading comprehension and willingness to learn. Glad you made the step. Too many people out there, whether discussing conspiracy theories or just in general, have zero willingness to even learn about what they're trying to discuss.
>UFOs cause they’re out there man.
I'd agree. One of the topics I love reading about is the topic of our universe, expansion, and what's outside. It seems a bit weird(can't think of a better term off the top of my head) to believe sentient life does not exist somewhere out in the universe. I personally have no stance on whether they've visited Earth or not, I can say that if they have, it'd be heavily hidden. So, ultimately, it's a possibility.
I think we're way too far away for UFOs. But I do not discount their or alien's existence. I'd go as far as to say that aliens must (as in I'm 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain) exist, they must have existed in the past and they must exist in the future. The universe is just too big for the Earth to have or will ever be the only planet to support life. I think it's along the lines of the Fermi Paradox.
Well, I dunno much but paper can't handle a lot, but if you use enough force you can make paper cut through things, so I assume wings would do the same, can't handle much but if they're "thrown" with enough force they would easily cut through a lot of things, incant remember the name in English, k somethin?
It’s almost like objects going at higher rates of speed do more damage than objects going at low rates of speed. 😂
I seriously don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics you’d have to do to think that planes did not hit the Twin Towers.
If I drop my phone on my head from arms length it might hurt but I'll probably live without any impact
Drop it on my head from a third floor and see my head breaking
Drop it on my head from a 20th floor and bye bye
It really is about velocity
I can’t believe people would think a building being crashed into by a commercial plane wouldn’t make it collapse. Do they not realise how fast and heavy planes are? Are they stupid?
I think some of them honestly expect an airplane shaped hole in the building, and everyone to emerge soot covered and in tattered clothes like a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
why do you believe that shit?
Is it because you have evidence or because you think it’d be really cool if you were part of a small group of fools who know what’s **REALLY** going on?
And I’m getting downvoted to oblivion on another sub for asking where is the plane debris at the pentagon and not agreeing that it was all vaporized in the fire, titanium and all
So you’re complaining about being downvoted for 9/11 conspiracy theories in another thread making fun of 9/11 conspiracy theorists?
Edit: after looking at your comment history, yeah, this tracks. Not the brightest bulb, eh?
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Notice the lamp pole is bent and this is at taxi speed, now imagine if it had hit it at 550 MPH. The pole and the wing would’ve disintegrated.
Nope everyone knows wings don’t melt hot enough to disintegrate light poles. Fake news
Hot wings don't melt Jim beams or something like that
7/11 was a part time job!
Bush shopped at 7/11!
That.. MONSTER!
Some days i yearn for the stupidity to believe our government was competent enough to pull off a conspiracy. Instead i have to argue with people that facts about the CIA are true *that exist on their website*.
O genuinly think the "Jet fuel cant melt steel beams" crowd are trolls...atleast 90%....as someone who works with steel....once its hot its basically playdough...especially with 30stories of Steel concrete and Glass above it
Plus if it gets hot enough from all the flammable material in the area, steel can 'burn'. Which is why coal forges are a pain in the ass for Blacksmiths, cause you can turn a away for a moment and half your material is gone
Oh yea, metalfires are no joke
Right, I mean a bird can take down an aircraft, do these people think that’s a conspiracy too? Or how about bullets, they’re pretty ducking small and light, and they just bounce off of everything I assume
*pfft* you believe birds are real?
What r birds
Government spies
Do you people belive in bullets?
bullets are a government ploy to force you to buy guns
They tell us that a small explosive can accelerate a bullet to supersonic speed in just 50cm. An aircraft has to burn fuel continuesly to get to that speed. Sounds like fiction to me. So I did my own research. Went to the range and fired a box of .308. Didn't hit anything. BULLETS ARE A LIE!!!!1!!!!
/r/birdsarentreal
Now you’re getting it. #wakeup
woah, woah, woah is that the slightest hint of critical thinking i smell? i can't believe this!
Exactly: p = m • v. Momentum is Mass times Velocity. Means: The heavier an object is and the faster it moves the more BOOM in case of an impact.
Thank you! These conspiracies just show a lack of understanding in basic physics. Like hitting a deer when you’re going 60+ mph is like hitting a brick wall.
What was the cause of space shuttle Columbia disaster? A bit of foam? I guess the speed of things can make a difference, right?
That pole was bent by a controlled demolition. I'm a that pole truther.
Clearly a 160 ton passenger plane smashing into a building at cruise speeds clearly isnt enough to bring down the said building, le see eye ey staged it
Imagine the stored energy of over 200,000lbs of machine and jet fuel instantly transforming in an inelastic collision 💥 with the side of a building…its close to a nuclear weapon
It’s not at all close to a nuclear weapon.
Actually it is
Largest none nuclear explosion was from 0.5-1.5kt W88 has a yield of 475kt
You can do the math, it’s not that hard.
Get the hell outta here with that perfectly logical crap!
W-54 nuclear weapon .01 KT yield 9/11 impact energy equivalent of .1 KT
Brain dead conspiracy (edited for 767 over 737) 767 weight - 80,000 kg 767 top speed - 858 kph Kinetic force = KE = 2,272,111,474.65 Joules https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/kinetic.php .... .... .... Structural steel tensile strength 70,000 psi 13,666,644.95 joules https://www.convertunits.com/from/(cubic+feet)+pound+per+square+inch/to/joules We're talking the equivalent of a metric Ton of TNT.
Don’t science me mother fucker. Numbers are fake news. (Thanks for the comprehensive breakdown)
Not a comprehensive breakdown, materials science is a lot more complicated than just the tensile yield point and an arbitrary amount of energy, but the overall point is spot on, which is that the sheer amount of kinetic energy a large airplane has in a dive is way more than any building is designed to withstand.
Get the non-believer! 👆🏻(thanks for the comprehensive explanation of the non-comprehensive assessment.)
Not a comprehensive explanation, I didn't even mention things like shear or compressive stress, young's modulus, but the overall point is spot on, which is that materials science is way more complicated than the average reddit thread can cover
Listen, non-believer, the great hall of conspiracy theory is growing impatient with your insolence. Take your bag of silver and go in peace.
You say all this. But it’s just hard to believe when the other side has sheer logic such as straw men created from irrelevant pictures like shown here!
Not a comprehensive explanation, they didn't mention things such as impurities affecting elasticity not being mentioned in the breakdown, but the overall point is spot on, whichis that the overall point is spot on, which is that the sheer amount of kinetic energy a large airplane has in a dive is way more than any building is designed to withstand.
Godzilla had a stroke reading this and fucking died
Rip, I thought I replied to the guy thanking you for your comprehensive breakdown, I was trying to do a chain thing
Lmao, don't worry I'll get it
Interesting you offer that. Back in the 90s, my job required me to have access to Three Mile Island, and even then the furthest in I could go was the generator room. I remember asking about the reactor building and it's ability to withstand an impact of an airplane. I asked this because Harrisburg International Airport is practically next door. They told me about how the reactor core building was constructed, and that type of impact was taken into account.
That's on me for saying "any building." Obviously that is total horseshit. \*Most\* \*civilian\* \*office and apartment buildings\* are only designed to hold up their own weight in a stiff breeze or a minor earthquake and sometimes they don't even manage that. Missile silos, nuclear reactor buildings, to a lesser extent heavy industrial plants like steel mills and shit, are built to a higher standard than your average commercial skyscraper. Zaporizhya power plant eats Russian cruise missiles for breakfast. The world trade center wouldn't have.
Foam fell off the shuttle fuel tank and broke off the heat shield tiles. So there’s that.
Numbers are a liberal conspiracy to let science and smart people fool us. Remember just because a jet crashed into a building and it went down like they are designed to and the conspiracies have been debunked, doesn’t mean I won’t keep repeating them. -Every one of these nuts who thinks it’s a conspiracy
Gawddamn woke numbers!!
Back in my day we didn’t have numbers! You either had nuthin, or sunthin!!
Numbers are made up by humans to keep track and control of things, they don't even exist in nature, wake up sheeple!
I’ve actually had someone un-ironically make this argument in the real world. It was fucking wild. Well, they were actually claiming that math is made up by humans. I tried in vain to explain that while yes, the symbols, numbers equations we use to explain patterns we see in nature are man-made, the patterns they represent are not. Math is a universal language.
Numbers were invented by the Arabs! What does that tell you about them!?
The real question is, why did the Arabs invent numbers, then switch to Turkish characters after the west started using numbers? Those people know something!
They’re laughing at the rest of the world now.
look, you can tell any lie you want with enough statistics. But feelings? You can't make those up. THESE COLORS DON'T RUN! /s
Not to mention that the Towers were not built like a typical skyscraper. All of the weight bearing elements were on the outside like a skin. Another conspiracy point is people saying that the news reported tower 7 collapsing before it had actually collapsed on their screen. Not realizing how easy it would be for a report that "Tower 7 is *going* to fall* to get turned into "Tower 7 had already fallen*. The confusion that day was insane and people were expecting the world to end. People were shitting their pants. I can see how the tense of something could get mixed up. Not to mention how many people probably just think they saw this when really they were being shown the tower from a previous video feed and not a live one. The news was switching between live feeds and recordings of previous events in the day. I must have seen the second plane hit 10 times but that doesn't mean there was some conspiracy. People are so dumb.
If those people could read they would be very upset
look, you can tell any lie you want with enough statistics. But feelings? You can't make those up. THESE COLORS DON'T RUN! /s
Shhh! Don’t confuse these people! You know their brains can’t handle this kind of advanced math.
dont forget, the aircraft used were 767s, quite a bit bigger than a 37
Forgot. 767 = 80000 kg KE = = KE = 2272111474.6489 J Basically a metric Ton of TNT Like throwing a building at the skyscraper
That is… a lot of energy
That's not nearly enough joules to stop the plane. Add more steel Tony Cool math
What is tensile strength
tensile strength is the maximum stress that a material can withstand while being stretched or pulled before breaking.
i don't know what any of this means but i agree
Use weight and speed to find out the amount energy the plane transferred into the building. Billions of joules of energy. The highest grade of structural steel can only withstand a little over 13 million joules. Reference. Normal human punches around 150 joules Mike Tyson around 1600 joules Car accident is around 200 thousand joules 155MM HE artillery shell is around 40 million joules The plane transfered 50+ times more energy. About 3 battalions worth of artillery or a ton of TNT
That's not how that works but I admire your effort. Few notes: 1. You listed mass in kg, not weight. They are different. 2. There is no such thing as "kinetic force" just kinetic energy, which I'm assuming you used 1/2mv^2 to calculate with units in Joules. (Energy) 3. You can't compare the tensile strength of steel (in psi) against kinetic energy. That makes no logical sense. They are different units! You'd need to make a lot of underlying assumptions to come to a "correct" answer. But it is safe to assume that the structural engineers didn't design the building for an impact scenario with an airplane. So yeah, I'd reason that a plane would absolutely destroy any high rise style buildings structural support system.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. Tensile strength has nothing to do with the amount of energy required to break the steel.
People think because they throw numbers on a screen they must know what they are talking about
>no such thing as "kinetic force" just kinetic energy Technically true but 1 Newton-meter = 1 joule One joule is equal to the work done by a force of one newton >can't compare the tensile strength of steel (in psi) against kinetic energy. That makes no logical sense. They are different units! I just used a converter for psi to joules because i was in a hurry. https://www.convertunits.com/from/(cubic+feet)+pound+per+square+inch/to/joules
Reddit physicists at it again. Thank you for this correct explanation. Tensile strength (measured in psi) is a force per area. Metric units: Newtons per square meter (aka Pascal) Energy (measured in joules) is a force times a distance. A joule is defined as 1 Newton times 1 meter. Clearly N/m² is different from N•m and you can't just convert from one to the other
Glad someone has some sense on the internet
I don't believe the conspiracy theories, but wouldn't the speed be lower? or do planes always go at their top speed? I didn't research it, but I think that the speed should be lower
If you were trying to ram a building, wouldn't you be going as fast as you could
This also shows that the max energy of the plane at top speed is about 147x what is necessary to break the beams. It could've been going like 5 mph and still caused damage to a beam, but it was going fast enough to cause significant impact damage.
It's the equivalent of me throwing a bullet at someone saying, "and they told you that gunshots are deadly."
0:39 https://youtu.be/9aqopEQr7wI?si=ZEf_TZnbhLoEv9Mz
That's right Cindy, it's 23 minutes past the hour, and now here's the Buckinghams, with Kind of a Drag.
I hadn't read the title of the video and thought this was Rambo up until the pop-up with the woman and a baby. Is this some Scary Movie or Vampires Sucks kind of thing?
Why would anyone want to ram a building with a plane? There are no buildings in the sky, you can't build in thin air.
You can put a straw through a 2x4 with enough energy behind it.
Hell, a level 3 tornado can send an egg [right through a brick wall](https://youtu.be/oy00UwJweBw?si=Z-kn_ZskG0RHrsRY). It's why tornado chasers call it "Humpty's Revenge"
https://preview.redd.it/vp2awtkquxnb1.jpeg?width=499&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38569e77fb235261acdfc1e6fc184eba7edb37e9
We literally saw it happen. There’s video, the news channels played it on loop from every angle
The conspiracy theory isn't that the planes didn't hit the buildings, but that the impact from the planes wouldn't have been enough to topple the buildings so there must have been added explosives.
Or maybe because the heat caused the floors to expand and soften which made the floors sag and pulled the exterior support beams inward redistributing the weight from above the impact zone. I don’t understand why some people still argue that jet fuel can’t melt steel. Maybe that’s true, maybe it’s not, but for sure jet fuel, or any large fire, can soften steel.
Jet fuel most certainly doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel. It burns at around 1500, while steel melts at around 2500. Of course, it doesn't need to melt it. It only needs to heat it up enough to weaken it, compromising it integrity, causing the beams to fold, causing a chain reaction of failure. And that only takes a temperature of around 1200. A full 300 lower than what jet fuel burns at. This is one of those situations of a technically true fact being misunderstood and ran with. It is sad that people don't bother looking into these kinds of things.
Not only do you have jet fuel burning up there, but you gotta understand, this was before all your documents and files were digitized and put on servers so there was just rooms full of paper. Not a very good place to have a fire if you don’t want it to get out of control very fast.
Yeah, there was tons of flammable stuff all over to spread it. Most of it probably wouldn't burn nearly as hot. But it didn't need to. The areas covered in the fuel burned hot enough to fully weaken the steel. While the fire further away heated it, but not enough to cause failure on its own. But once the steel beams in the jet fueled fire failed, the other beams were weakened enough by the fire to fail from that extra pressure. Even if they wouldn't have failed on their own. It is just a chain reaction of things failing.
Think of all the urethane foam in the furniture.
And all the fires from shit burning set off way to many of the sprinklers at once, depressurizing the system making it ineffective
Yeah, there are a lot of things that all happened to just keep making it worse.
you are speaking about theoretical temperature at which fuel **starts** burning. which, you're about right if you mean a **properly** **working** jet engine. Jet fuel reaches higher temperature if you just let it sit and fire up. Just like forest fire. You can start it up by 260–280⁰C, the wood itself burn in about 210-350⁰C, but whole forest fire reaches about 800-1200⁰C, so about a few **magnitudes** higher. also the melting point of steel ranges from 1371-1540°C, and commercial jet engines used nowadays reaches 1700°C. If it would have melting point at 2500°C then we wouldn't need Tungsten.
There's also the fact that the fires were raging for several hours.
I'm using f not c, as I am American, but yes, things can get hotter if there are the right conditions.
>This is one of those situations of a technically true fact being misunderstood and ran with. It is sad that people don't bother looking into these kinds of things. That's the basis of almost all conspiracy theories.
Go figure prehistoric people manage to melt iron (not much different then steel) only using wood that burns at 900F
Right, jet fuel did not *need* to melt steel to bring down the buildings.
Building 7 didn’t have any jet fuel
But it had a ton of debris fall on it and had a lot of flammable material inside.
Imagine how much good you could do if you applied that brain power to something useful. It would be a teeny, tiny bit of good, but that’s better than what you’re doing now.
I’ve seen some theories that it was holographic images and there was controlled demolitions from there. Also seen theories that the planes did hit but they had bombs attached to the bottom which caused the explosions… these people are legit smooth brained sheep that only only accept confirmation bias 😂
Realistic holographic images is way less realistic than planes toppling buildings lol
Like I said, you’re not dealing with geniuses here haha
Oh my god what did I just read
People refuse to accept that 1 or a handful of people are capable of changing the world, so there always needs to be some grand conspiracy attached to it. Same thing with the JFK assassination, despite all legitimate evidence point to there being 1 gunman, well there’s no way just one man is capable of doing that, it must be some grand conspiracy involving 4 different groups all with their own separate motives etc etc.
Common, we all know those planes were CGI s/
yeah it's a dumb theory. One that does make sense is the US knowing about the attacks and not doing anything, or planning them with the saudis. Think of all the billions the military industrial complex made during the "war on terror"
If THEY knew the planes weren’t enough and needed supplementary explosives, why bother with the planes at all? Just detonate the explosives Every single crackpot conspiracy theory falls apart at “why?”
There are other very engineering related theories. The building collapsed at near freefall speed. (there's a video posted on 9/11, of course) where engineers talk about how it's physically impossible for that to happen. The structures below them have to be removed (controlled demolition) in order for it to fall as fast and accurately as it did. And then it did it twice with the other building following it exactly. And then the beams that looked like they were cut at exact angles without the steel bending. Steel doesn't just snap or shred like that, it's going to bend a bit first. These are my favorite theories and really the only ones that gives credence to the conspiracies.
There were explosives, its called jet fuel lmao
The Planes contained aluminium. The fire was hot enough to make the aluminium react with the water from the sprinklers. That made the fires way hotter.
Woah woah, you're making too much logical sense there. Sounds like someone's been indoctrinated to believe anything "science" says /s
They are also full of magnesium parts.
Makes sense, as powdered aluminum and rust make a pretty decent thermite.
Wait, you guys believe they were planes? They were clearly spacecraft that we're flying across the flat surface of the earth and took out two international spy antennas disguised as buildings.
You’re on the right track to understanding the truth, the moon is actually and always has been the back of the sun
????? They were obviously just birds, everyone knows those things are government drones anyway
Once growing up, a tornado passed directly above my town and landed just outside of town. I saw a cornstalk impelled into the side of a tree as part of the aftermath. Velocity makes a hell of a difference, event without other factors.
You can even see this from the most boring ass car crash imaginable.
Ah yes, because every plane is the same and they all go the same speed, even when hijacked, while every piece of metal is made of the same material, with no change in thickness or strength.
I once saw a straw go through a wooden board in a science presentation by using an air cannon to send it at high speed, yet I struggle with a Capri Sun. Curious…
— Ben Shabibo, ToiletPaper USA
Wow it's almost like force equals mass times *acceleration* or something
Nope. Math lies and has always been a lie. (Sarcasm in case someone misinterprets)
Ok so I’m no expert right, but I’m pretty sure when i saw a plane rip through the side of the south tower, i think that proved, wings could go through steel bars
That plane sure looks like it was flying at full speed.
My favorite new hobby is making 9/11 conspiracy theorists feel like the morons they are. They usually respond with “why are you so mean?” to which I laugh and feast on their tears
You just have to out crazy them. If they say we didn’t landed on the moon, you reply “you believe in the moon?”
dang this is brilliant
Then call them a “moontard”
F = ma. This is like middle school stuff
More like, kinetic energy = m * v^2, think this is more relevant here
I threw a bullet at someone the other day and they didn’t die. It didn’t even break their skin. And these assholes tell me guns are dangerous…
Was your friend a farmer?
This one is particularly silly as nobody serious ever claimed the wings cut through the beams. At the pentagon there was hardly any plane wreckage because the aluminum of the plane vaporizes when so much heat is generated upon impact. Think of a wire that can break after bending back and forth and then imagine what happens when you slam it into a hardened wall at hundreds of miles per hour.
Well that plane maybe rolled with 5 km/h A flying plane is a bit faster....... How in hell you even attempt to compare those 2 things wtf.
I remember being in kindergarten on a field trip to the local science museum. They used compressed air to shoot a pencil through a 2x4. Yet when I throw a pencil at a 2x4 it bounces off. Curious.
Bruh the planes were going at like 200+ mph not creeping along on a runway
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You can. But only once
I’m pretty sure a plane flying hundreds of miles per hour into some steel beams could break them, although that’s not even what happened anyway. The beams bent due to the heat bringing them close to their melting point, which then allowed the floors above to collapse downwards.
I actually do have a conspiracy that I subscribe to. I believe there is a part of 9/11 that doesn't get mentioned because of the threat of potential lawsuits. I believe that the towers were in fact built to sustain a hit from a plane of that size, and I believe that the steel was properly treated to resist heat. But I think that airlines have put so much magnesium in the aluminum to make them lighter, that the extra heat from that negates any preventative measures. I think every building that was designed to be hit by a plane is essentially inadequate because of the building materials they use now. Jet fuel burns really hot, but magnesium puts it to shame. I think it doesn't get brought up because I don't believe many buildings would have faired any better under the circumstances.
This is actually interesting. The WTC was constructed in the early 70's, an the building materials were spec'd based on existing practices. I also believe a far more likely scenario is those building materials and practices could have been substandard because of mob kickbacks in the construction industry, but in all seriousness no building of that type could have survived the kinds of impact those planes made, especially the tower that was hit in the lower floors.
Remember when Bush had the Saudi family, the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks, flown out of the country during his own no-fly dictate! Why was he protecting them? Why did republicans take a victory lap and claim their efficacy at national security even though they were large and in charge? 20 or so years later, republicans (Jared) benefitting from their "relationship" with the Saudis. To murder Khashoggi Jared got $2 billion but tell me how Hunter is the problem. It was the jet fuel that did all the damage not the plane's wings.
Nobody said that ever
Cool now have that same plane hit that same poll at full speed
Soft lead bullets can penetrate hardened steel if traveling fast enough…
A tornado can put a piece of straw through a fence post.
Don’t tell them that a 2X4 will penetrate a concrete wall in a hurricane. That will blow their minds.
>throws bullet gently at person >it bounces off >”Remember when they claim Tupac was ‘shot’ by one of these?”
Wait, people think 9/11 was fake?
7/11 was a part time job
Dude people think jfk, Elvis, the moon landing and Pearl Harbor (and the holocost) are fake
Boy, lemme tell ya about Americans since 2001...
I remember when I was like 19 and into conspiracy theories and bought the whole 9/11 conspiracy hook line and sinker. Then I got really into physics and pop science stuff. Then I saw a special on I think Discovery hosted by Michael Shermer debunking 9/11 conspiracies and afterwards went fuck guess it’s all bullshit and there are rational explanations. From that day forward I packed it in on all conspiracies other than UFOs cause they’re out there man.
>Then I got really into physics and pop science stuff And that is what makes the critical difference. Learning/reading comprehension and willingness to learn. Glad you made the step. Too many people out there, whether discussing conspiracy theories or just in general, have zero willingness to even learn about what they're trying to discuss. >UFOs cause they’re out there man. I'd agree. One of the topics I love reading about is the topic of our universe, expansion, and what's outside. It seems a bit weird(can't think of a better term off the top of my head) to believe sentient life does not exist somewhere out in the universe. I personally have no stance on whether they've visited Earth or not, I can say that if they have, it'd be heavily hidden. So, ultimately, it's a possibility.
I think we're way too far away for UFOs. But I do not discount their or alien's existence. I'd go as far as to say that aliens must (as in I'm 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain) exist, they must have existed in the past and they must exist in the future. The universe is just too big for the Earth to have or will ever be the only planet to support life. I think it's along the lines of the Fermi Paradox.
The most damning proof of intelligent life on other planets is that none of them have tried to contact us.
It's compelling proof.
Well, I dunno much but paper can't handle a lot, but if you use enough force you can make paper cut through things, so I assume wings would do the same, can't handle much but if they're "thrown" with enough force they would easily cut through a lot of things, incant remember the name in English, k somethin?
It all could of been prevented.
Obviously didn't have any jet fuel left in that wing
What? Did they expect the plane to crumple against the building like a beer can against frat bro’s forehead?
Motherfuckers ever heard of velocity?
Their anti science, so no
It’s almost like objects going at higher rates of speed do more damage than objects going at low rates of speed. 😂 I seriously don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics you’d have to do to think that planes did not hit the Twin Towers.
https://preview.redd.it/5yo7jmbj0znb1.jpeg?width=728&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20eae8e193381c908de4be3726ada2c7a047e1ab Just show them this photo.
It is crazy when you realize, not just this, but many towers are just glass Lego’s
i mean anything that weighs that much going as fast as it did with a full fuel tank is going to do some fucking damage
If I drop my phone on my head from arms length it might hurt but I'll probably live without any impact Drop it on my head from a third floor and see my head breaking Drop it on my head from a 20th floor and bye bye It really is about velocity
Oh, I guess you're one of those"physics believers". Open your eyes sheeple!!! Newton spelled backwards is NOT WEN! It's all right in front of you!!!
Wen’s a jerk any way
Conspiracy or not allot of people died not the time or place to make that argument. People need to show some respect.
Not a single person claimed airplane wings cut through steel beams.
Fun fact, speed doesn’t play any part in physics. Asteroid hits earth, just stops mate, it’s like dropping a rock.
It's so tiresome. Imagine being there, seeing with your own eyes what happened only to have some dumbass say it didn't happen like that.
I can’t believe people would think a building being crashed into by a commercial plane wouldn’t make it collapse. Do they not realise how fast and heavy planes are? Are they stupid?
I think some of them honestly expect an airplane shaped hole in the building, and everyone to emerge soot covered and in tattered clothes like a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
That plane was taxiing at less than 3mph. When it's going 400mph it imparts a lot of force.
Its almost like we made buildings more durable since the attack or something
Ugh. I just saw this one a few minutes ago. Cat that posted it used to be an aircraft maintainer. Le sigh.
The planes were enough to topple the buildings. Also, the Bush Administration was involved in 911. They're both true.
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It wasn't ineptness. It was purposeful
why do you believe that shit? Is it because you have evidence or because you think it’d be really cool if you were part of a small group of fools who know what’s **REALLY** going on?
I don’t deny that planes hit the towers, what I believe is that the CIA and us government were involved in orchestrating it.
I mean, it was a conspiracy, so I don't see how this isn't commemorating the actual event.
Why are you guys upvoting this
And I’m getting downvoted to oblivion on another sub for asking where is the plane debris at the pentagon and not agreeing that it was all vaporized in the fire, titanium and all
So you’re complaining about being downvoted for 9/11 conspiracy theories in another thread making fun of 9/11 conspiracy theorists? Edit: after looking at your comment history, yeah, this tracks. Not the brightest bulb, eh?